Sustain

Guest Nixo Rokish Panelists Eriol Fox | Victory Brown Show Notes In this live episode of Sustain from Devconnect in Buenos Aires, host Eriol Fox and co-host Victory Brown sit down with Nixo Rokish, Protocol Support Lead at the Ethereum Foundation, to unpack how Ethereum’s deeply decentralized governance actually works in practice. They dive into the nuts and bolts of coordinating 100+ core contributors across 11+ client teams, why neutral facilitation is crucial, how Ethereum’s upgrade and EIP process avoids “single maintainer” failure modes, and what lessons other open source projects can steal to make their own governance more sustainable. The episode concludes with Nixo promoting the EthStaker project focused on decentralized staking. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:38] Nixo explains Ethereum as a rare example of truly decentralized governance and she describes the Protocol Coordination team. [00:02:25] Why does this governance model matter for sustainability? Nixo says most projects rely on 1-2 key people and if they leave, the project can stall or die. [00:04:09] Eriol asks if anyone resists this decentralized, community-led governance model. Nixo says active participants are mostly enthusiastic about the process and the main friction from VCs wanting more control and social media “ship faster” pressure. [00:05:51] Eriol talks about money and influence entering open source projects and Nixo shares that core devs are motivated by building systems for many people, not concentrating profit. [00:08:00] Nixo walks through the Ethereum Improvement Proposal (EIP) process. [00:11:38] Victory asks how they manage consensus with so many people and companies involved. Nixo explains 11+ client times, only one is within EF, other are independent companies/nonprofits. [00:13:36] Eriol reacts to how impressive it is that devs can reach consensus via facilitation and asks Nixo for advice for smaller open source projects that want to adopt similar practices. Her key advice is to have a neutral facilitator. [00:16:13] Nixo shares where you can find her on the internet and she spotlights a project she used to work at called, EthStaker. Links podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox X Victory Brown X Nixo Rokish X Devconnect-Buenos Aires, Argentina 2025, 17-22 November Ethereum Ethereum Foundation Institute of Forecasting & Planning EthStaker Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Logistical support by Tina Arboleda from Digital Savvies Special Guest: Nixo Rokish.

Guest Shubhranshu Choudhary Panelists Eriol Fox | Victory Brown Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Eriol Fox and co-host Victory Brown speak with Shubhranshu “Shu” Choudhary. They delve into his work with Democratic Media and its connections to open source technology. Shu discusses the aristocratic nature of current media, the importance of democratizing journalism, and the potential role of open source and decentralized technologies like Web3 and blockchain in making media more inclusive and representative. He shares his vision of community-led journalism, the challenges of sustaining independent media, and the importance of technology in addressing these issues. The conversation highlights the need for democratic platforms, the role of AI in reducing costs, and the potential for blockchain to create financially independent media. Shu also touches on the trust and inclusivity required for effective community journalism. Press download to hear more! [00:00:33] Shu tells us what his work involves and how it connects to open source software. [00:02:52] Eriol asks why Shu finds open source, Web3, and decentralization critical to the democratic media work that he’s doing. He explains that media should be commons and inclusive, not controlled by media owners. [00:05:04] Shu details the challenges and solutions in media representation. He envisions a “News Commission” (like an Election Commission) where everyone can submit stories and AI’s role. [00:09:27] Eriol recalls a Ugandan project she worked on where farmers reclaimed radio to broadcast their issues. Shu admits he previously associated Web3 only with scammers, but DevConnect showed him serious, positive work. Also, he sees potential for AI and Web3 joint platforms and explains designing for the “last person first.” [00:16:18] Victory asks about trust in tech, given risks to Shu and his family and wider distrust of Web3/open source. Shu’s trust is multi-layered, during conflict, anonymity is crucial, but in calmer times, trust also means community control. [00:20:02] Eriol and Victory connect Shu’s ideas to open source governance and community driven tool design. Shu points out that voters/reporters must not be paid per story but should be compensated through impact. [00:22:19] Find out where to follow Shu and his work on the internet and he stresses this is a humanity-wide challenge, not just a journalists’ one. Links podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox X Victory Brown X Devconnect- 2025, Buenos Aires, Argentina, 17-22 November Ethereum Ethereum Foundation Shubhranshu Choudhary LinkedIn CGNet Swara Democratic Media Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Logistical support by Tina Arboleda from Digital Savvies Special Guest: Shubhranshu Choudhary.

Guest Mário Havel Panelists Eriol Fox | Victory Brown Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Eriol Fox and co-host Victory Brown are live at Devconnect Conference in Buenos Aires, with Mário Havel, protocol support at the Ethereum Foundation and co-founder of the Bordel Hackerspace in Prague. Mário shares his experience working in protocol support, contributing to the evolution and scalability of Ethereum. He dives into the significance of the Hackerspace 'Bordell' in Prague, discussing its role in fostering a creative and collaborative community focused on free and open source software. Mário also highlights the philosophical underpinnings of free software, emphasizing user freedom and security, and discusses the impact of corporate involvement in open source projects, the complexities of sustaining such initiatives, and the innovative “crowd-loaning” model used to fund their Hackerspace through Ethereum. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:40] Mário explains working at the Ethereum Foundation, his role on the protocol support team, the Ethereum Protocol Fellowship, and he introduces Bordel Hackerspace as a community space for hackers, makers, and artists. [00:04:08] He elaborates on the Hackerspace which is explicitly free and open source software users and contributors and his free and open source software philosophy. Eriol reflects on her own journey learning what “free” really means in this context. [00:07:54] Mário dives into how scalability, security, and new devs/fellowships link directly to sustainability. [00:12:48] Mário discusses corporate influence on free/open source. He emphasizes the need for more neutral, community driven structures so projects can accept money without losing independence. [00:15:25] Eriol contrasts joyful, playful hacker culture with the pressure many projects feel to “look corporate” to survive. Mário shares his personal stance: he avoids proprietary software and doesn’t use banks or KYC, preferring free/open monetary systems like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Monero. [00:17:41] Mário details “crowdloaning” smart contracts they built on Ethereum. Eriol suggests many open source projects doing individual donation drives could learn from this crowdloaning model. [00:21:10] Find out where you can follow Mário and the projects on the internet, and he spotlights the project GrapheneOS, a highly secure, privacy-respecting, easy-to-use mobile operating system. Links podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox X Victory Brown X Mário Havel X Mário Havel GitHub Devconnect- 2025, Buenos Aires, Argentina, 17-22 November Ethereum Ethereum Foundation Ethereum Foundation Blog Bordel Hackerspace Bordel Hackerspace First Ever Pure DeFi Mortgage/Contribute to the crowdloan GrapheneOS Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Logistical support by Tina Arboleda from Digital Savvies Special Guest: Mário Havel.

Guests Rynn Mancuso | Maryblessing Okolie | Mo McElaney Panelist Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, Richard and Eriol talk with members of the Organization for Ethical Source (OES), Rynn Mancuso, Maryblessing Okolie, and Mo McElaney, about how ethics, licensing, and codes of conduct intersect in open source. They unpack the origins and challenges of the Hippocratic License, the community driven overhaul of Contributor Covenant 3.0, what it really takes to collaborate across borders and cultures, and how OES is now turning its attention to ethical AI, translations and practical resources for communities to make it a safer and more inclusive space. They also suggest ways for listeners to get involved in these important initiatives. Hit download now! [00:02:17] Rynn gives the elevator pitch on what the Organization for Ethical (OES) is. [00:04:57] Mo explains the Hippocratic License is modeled on “do no harm” and it’s an open source license. [00:06:06] Richard wonders if the Hippocratic License is open source since we’re not using OSI’s definition. Mo explains that OES still uses “open source” in a broader, “big tent” sense focused on work done in the open, and Rynn adds why definitions need to evolve. [00:09:27] Rynn shares rewriting the Contributor Covenant 3.0, starting from their background, to being a limited scope, and getting feedback from translators that language was too American/Western and 3.0 needed a broader cultural fit. [00:15:12] Maryblessing was brought in to lead v3.0 from an African, non-US perspective and to make the process community driven. She tells us what’s new in the Contributor Covenant 3.0. [00:19:43] The discussion covers how they all worked together. It was a highly collaborative, consensus driven process where anyone could propose edits. They talk about how long it took, not work entirely on GitHub, and why not everything was public. [00:24:59] We hear about some adoption challenges for codes of conduct for small projects and enterprises. [00:28:53] Rynn, Mo, and Maryblessing touch on how they are approaching ethical AI work, they share options to support OES, how to get involved, and translation needs. Quotes [00:12:32] “It was a very limited scope, and we always designed it to work on the internet and be for open source projects.” [00:13:23] “I would get these problems that really had to do with caste, but nobody would say anything about caste.” [00:16:37] “This new version also emphasizes restorative justice, and we’re keen on using inclusive languages.” [00:17:06] “We’re making progress on bringing in African translation.” [00:17:38] “One of the things we did with the new website was to include the CC3 builder which was going to help make it easy for people to adapt the code of conduct.” [00:21:37] “Every bit of feedback we got, we took it seriously, we talked about it.” [00:22:13] “It took is a year and six months to do the entire thing, to make sure people were available. It took that long because we wanted to make sure we were incorporating every feedback.” [00:23:14] “We do not do everything in the open on GitHub. One reason is structural. GitHub is not great at document management. Another reason we do that is we’ve received a lot of harassment form groups on the internet that were frankly invested in being able to cause trouble for a lot of people.” [00:29:14] “We’re in the early stages of considering how we could approach ethical AI.” Spotlight [00:33:12] Mo's spotlight is for more folks to get involved with this project and other projects through the OES. [00:33:34] Rynn’s spotlight is a shoutout to the folks at IBM and RedHat and Dev/Mission and JVS where they volunteer. [00:35:25] Maryblessing’s spotlight is all the amazing people that helped put together the Contributor Covenant v.3.: Greg Cassel, Coraline Ada Ehmke, Gerardo Lisboa, Rynn Mancuso, Mo McElaney, Maryblessing Okolie, Ben Sternthal, and Casey Watts. [00:36:11] Eriol’s spotlight is the OpenSSF Working Group on Securing Software Repositories. [00:36:44] Richard’s spotlight is a fun paper called, Paradoxes of Openness: Trans Experiences in Open Source Software by Hana Frluckaj, Nikki Stevens, James Howison, and Laura Dabbish. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox X Rynn Mancuso LinkedIn Maryblessing Okolie LinkedIn Mo McElaney LinkedIn Organization For Ethical Source (OES) OES- What We Do OES-What We Believe Donate-The Organization for Ethical Source (Open Collective) Contributor Covenant Contributor Covenant 3.0 Code of Conduct Code of conduct enforcement guidelines (MDN Web Docs) Coraline Ada Ehmke Ethical Source- Beacon Adopt Contributor Covenant Resources for Community Moderators Dev/Mission JVS (Jewish Vocational Services) Techtonica OpenSSF Working Group on Securing Software Repositories Paradoxes of Openness: Trans Experiences in Open Source Software (ACM Digital Library) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Maryblessing Okolie, Maureen Mcelaney, and Rynn Mancuso.

Guests Dawn Wages | Loren Crary Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, Richard Littauer talks with Dawn Wages, former Chair of the Python Software Foundation board and Loren Crary, Deputy Executive Director of the PSF, about how the PSF sustains Python and its community, governance, fundraising, and events like PyCon US, and why they ultimately turned down a $1.5M NSF grant rather than accept new anti-DEI conditions. They walk through what the grant was for, how the decision unfolded, the financial and ethical risks involved, and the overwhelming community response in donations and support, ending with a call to participate in the PSF fundraiser and submit talks to PyCon US 2026. Press download now to hear more! [00:02:41] Dawn explains she just finished her term as Chair at the PSF Board, previously served as Treasurer, and that board seats are elected volunteer toles with three-year terms. [00:03:40] Loren describes her job as Deputy Executive Director, #2 to ED Deb Nicholson. She leads fundraising and revenue strategy, handles internal operations and strategic planning, and she clarifies that the Python Steering Council steers the language itself and mentions PyCon US will be in Long Beach, CA May 2026. [00:05:38] Dawn shares a personal story how PSF funding and local Python user group helped her start in Python a decade ago and encourages listeners to donate and use company matching. [00:06:57] Loren speaks about sponsors and individual donors and plugs the fundraiser and the “cute snake thermometer” on the donate page. [00:08:00] Richard, as a board member of Python New Zealand, underscores PSF’s support for Python user groups and conferences. He then pivots to ask about strategy where Loren describes how the board leads strategy. [00:13:34] Dawn reflects on learning to chair the board for the first time, praising staff expertise, and she describes the ‘flywheel’ model where staff and board collaborate closely, with staff often joining board meetings to co-develop strategy. [00:15:18] Loren highlights the PSF board and representation. [00:16:59] Richard gives a special shout-out to Phyllis Dobbs as one of the “unsung heroes” of open source, noting her work with OSI and Deb in the past. [00:17:26] The convo turns to the NSF Safe OSE program and what happened with the large grant the PSF was awarded and then declined. Loren details everything that happened and gives a shout-out to Seth Larson, whom she collaborated with. [00:29:00] Loren reads the key clause that PSF would need to affirm, and the board ultimately made the call that it was too risky to their mission to accept the terms. [00:31:42] Dawn explains the board’s decision to withdraw and Loren notes that no one on the board or staff ever floated “dropping DEI to take the money.” [00:33:55] Dawn points to Python’s reputation as a welcoming, diverse community and DEI is portrayed as “lifeblood,” not an optional extra. [00:35:03] What happened after they said they weren’t taking the money? Dawn and Loren recount an outpouring of support after the public statement, and we find out how much money the fundraiser has made so far along including an anonymous donation. [00:38:33] Dawn zooms out to decades of conversations about funding open source, arguing that individual donors and major AI companies profiting from Python should be contributing at scale. [00:41:20] Richard reinforces the ongoing donation, and Loren plugs the PyCon US Call for Proposals (open through December 19) with new AI and security tracks and invites listeners to submit. Quotes [00:07:09] “If you want to know what a nonprofit does, look at who their funders are and that’s who they’re working for.” [00:12:07] “The board sets a strategy, but there needs to be a ‘flywheel’ from the staff to keep things like that going.” [00:18:45] “We dipped our toes into grant funding, and we thought that would be a great way to make our work more sustainable.” [00:32:40] “The $1.5 million is not net worth putting the future health and safety of the language in the organization in jeopardy.” [00:32:58] “I am proud that at no point did anyone float: What if we just stopped doing everything DEI and take the money?” [00:38:09] “I like my boss to be the users.” [00:38:41] “We’ve been talking about what it means to fund open source for decades…I think this is an interesting arc that we’re experiencing. I’m hoping that the numbers will have two or three commas from individual donations.” Spotlight [00:42:15] Richard’s spotlight is Phyllis Dobbs. [00:42:26] Dawn’s spotlight is PyScript. [00:42:42] Loren’s spotlight is The Carpentries. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Dawn Wages Website Loren Crary LinkedIn Python Software Foundation PSF Donate PyCon US 2026, Long Beach, CA The Philadelphia Python Users Group (PhillyPUG) Safety, Security, and Privacy of Open Source Ecosystems (Safe-OSE) PSF Welcomes New Security Developer in Residence with Support from Alpha-Omega Seth Michael Larson-GitHub Seth Larson Blog post: I am the first PSF Security Developer-in-Residence Python Software Foundation turns down $1.5 million NSF grant because of the anti-DEI strings attached (The Verge) The PSF has withdrawn a $1.5 million proposal to US government grant program (PSF Blog post) PSF Board Meeting Minutes Archive (Python) Phyllis Dobbs PyScript The Carpentries Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Dawn Wages and Loren Crary.

Guest Richard J. Acton Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer speaks with Richard J. Acton, a research data outputs manager at the Human Developmental Biology Initiative based near Cambridge. He discusses his involvement with open source software through bioinformatics and his development of a comprehensive checklist for researchers producing code. This checklist aims to guide researchers in making their software outputs more citable, reproducible, and user-friendly. The conversation delves into various themes covered by the checklist, such as source control, licensing, documentation, testing, and governance. He also shares his insights on the importance of open science and transparent research practices, the challenges of balancing open source work with academic demands, and the potential role of funders and publishers in supporting these efforts. Press download more to hear more! [00:00:43] Richard Acton explains his job at the Human Developmental Biology Initiative and how the checklist started. [00:01:23] He transitioned into open source via bioinformatics and Linux and advocates for open science and reproducibility in software. [00:02:26] We learn why the checklist was created and the design and structure of the checklist. [00:05:46] Richard Acton talks about lack and time and incentives prevent open sourcing and the how the checklist makes code more citable and boost academic recognition. [00:09:17] There’s a discussion on the trade-off between citing a paper vs. citing the code. [00:12:05] The tier system is mentioned and Richard Acton explains how the checklist encourages progression from bronze to platinum and goes over the key areas in the checklist categories. [00:14:21] Governance and community is discussed with Richard Acton explaining that governance also includes continuity and community management is addressed especially for reusable pipelines. [00:16:29] We hear about the three categories for research code: one-off code, web-based services, and reusable packages and how the definitions were tailored for the checklist. [00:17:23] Richard Acton presented the checklist at the SSI workshop and he’s seeking contributors, reviewers, and testers. [00:19:18] Richard Action advocates for publishers to enforce code quality and universities and funders can hire staff to ease researcher workload, and he speaks about transparency and quality assurance. [00:24:59] Implementation and badging is discussed and he shares the grading is currently designed for self-assessment, but open to expert review in the future. [00:26:33] Richard Acton is open to collaborating with CHAOSS and he aims to grow the project into a broader community standard. [00:27:23] Find out where you can follow Richard Acton and his work on the web. Quotes [00:02:13] “Software being an integral part of modern research means that it needs to be open in order to be reproducible effectively.” Spotlight [00:27:58] Richard’s spotlight is attending the Birds New Zealand annual conf. [00:28:55] Richard Acton’s spotlight is ‘rix: Reproducible Environments with Nix.’ Links podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Richard J. Acton Website Richard J. Acton Mastodon Research Software Sharing, Publication, & Distribution Checklists Birds New Zealand rix: Reproducible Environments with Nix Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Richard J. Acton.

Guest Qianqian Ye Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, Richard hosts a conversation with Qianqian “Q” Ye, an artist, creative technologist, and educator who recently led the p5.js project, an open-source JavaScript library designed to prioritize accessibility and diversity in learning to code. Q shares her journey from an architectural background to contributing and eventually leading p5.js, a library created by artists for artists with a strong focus on visual feedback and accessibility. They discuss the importance of decentralizing leadership, setting boundaries to avoid burnout, and empowering contributors to ensure the project's sustainability. Key topics include the role of care work in open source, the community-driven evolution of p5.js, and strategies for maintaining a collaborative and inclusive environment. Q also highlights the significance of providing clear documentation and recognizing all forms of contributions to foster a welcoming community. Press download now to hear more! [00:001:01] Q explains what p5.js is and how it teaches people to code. [00:02:11] Q shares her journey from former architect turned creative technologist and highlights her community progression through translation and outreach. [00:04:19] Why is p5.js different? Q emphasizes the output is art, not code, making it more inclusive and intuitive for beginners. [00:05:40] Richard inquires about the p5.js community and contributors and Q tells us there are 700-800 contributors officially recognized. [00:06:33] Q elaborates on the relationship with the Processing Foundation. P5.js operates semi-independently under its support, and she talks about the staff size for p5.js. [00:07:49] Q believes the traditional open source volunteerism is problematic and the Sovereign Tech Agency provided funding to support mentors and contributors. [00:09:19] Q’s essay “Care Work in OSS” explores the invisible labor behind software projects and advocates for recognizing emotional labor and decentralized decision making. [00:10:15] We hear about the rotating leadership and inclusivity and how documentation and mentorship is the key to smooth transitions. [00:13:18] Q talks about the translation stewardship with a decentralized structure with language-specific stewards and using inclusive onboarding and translations. [00:15:31] Richard questions preventing burnout in stewards and Q elaborates how p5.js handles this and why access includes joy and inclusivity. [00:18:05] We hear how decisions about feature acceptance are made through community review and discussions, as well as how some users challenged the access-first policy. [00:20:15] Balancing art and community is discussed here as Q clarifies that open source and the arts often conflict due to individualism vs. collectivism. [00:21:48] How does Q help the open source community learn and give credit to other people well all the time? She gives routine shoutouts in release notes, social media, and seeks to credit all contributions, not just code. [00:24:48] Q shares how she deals with emotional burnout and boundaries and tips for setting boundaries. [00:28:18] What’s next for Q? She’s returning from maternity leave as Manager of Community and Partnerships for the Processing Foundation, and focus on building relationships and discussing sustainable funding at UN Open Source Week. [00:29:32] Find out where you can follow Q and p5.js on the web. Quotes [00:08:00] “I strongly believe that the volunteer-based model in open source is very problematic, and I’ve been trying to experiment different ways on doing thing alternatively.” [00:09:55] “OSS appears faceless, but there are so many people behind OSS.” [00:11:17] “Creators and maintainers of OSS carry bias of their own when they maintain the software.” [00:16:20] “Having to say no helped us to clarify the vision for the p5.js project.” Spotlight [00:30:01] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Things Become Other Things by Craig Mod [00:30:50] Q’s spotlight is two contributors, Dave Pagurek and Kenneth Lim. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Qianqian Ye LinkedIn Qianqian Ye Website p5.js p5.js Access Statement All Contributors Processing Foundation Sovereign Tech Agency Lauren Lee McCarthy Making p5.js by Lauren Lee McCarthy UN Open Source Week 2025, NYC, June 16-20 Things Become Other Things by Craig Mod P5.js 2.0 and an open source philosophy by Dave Pagurek Designing an addon library system for p5.js 2.0 by Kenneth Lim Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Qianqian Ye.

Guest Federico Mena Quintero Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer chats with Federico Mena Quintero, a foundational GNOME hacker and board member. Federico shares his journey from learning image processing in high school, becoming a key contributor to the GIMP project, and founding the GNOME desktop environment. He discusses the historical context, challenges, and achievements of GNOME and open source development. The conversation delves into the importance of maintaining infrastructural software, adapting to new technologies like the Rust programming language, and the socio-economic factors influencing the open source community's demographics. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:29] Federico describes GNOME as the “surface of your desk”- the visual and interactive layer of the Linux desktop. [00:02:16] Federico started writing image processing programs in high school and discovered GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) and began contributing plugins. Encouraged by positive feedback, he continued developing filters and building community resources. [00:10:20] The proprietary Motif GUI toolkit used by GIMP prompted the creation of GTK (GIMP Toolkit), a free alternative. GTK was split from GIMP and became a foundation for GNOME. Miguel de Icaza learned about modular component design from Microsoft and brought those ideas to the GNOME team. [00:14:48] Federico explains KDE was already launched but used the non-free Qt toolkit and GNOME was created as a fully free alternative using GTK. [00:17:58] They discuss GNOME’s long-term success which has thousands of contributors and institutional backing from its foundation. [00:21:06] Federico reflects on his privilege. He never had to apply for his first job because he was recruited and recognizes the barriers to entry for underrepresented communities. [00:24:32] The conversation turns to global south and diversity. Federico discusses the limitations on who can participate in open source due to time, money, and societal roles, and notes that women and people outside the Global North often face greater barriers. [00:30:37] Richard inquires what Federico means by “maintaining infrastructure.” He explains that open source today is less about new features and more about keeping infrastructure working. [00:32:59] Federico talks about a recent project to replace a vital but abandoned infrastructure component and emphasizes the need for sustainable maintenance strategies. [00:36:25] Federico became maintainer of Librsvg image rendering library from C to Rust. [00:40:00] Find out where you can follow Federico on the web. Quotes [00:31:10] “Software doesn’t rot, but the environment around it changes.” Spotlight [00:40:57] Richard’s spotlight is the book, 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus. [00:41:49] Federico’s spotlight is two books: Malintzin’s Choices and James. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Federico Mena Quintero Blog Federico Mena Quintero Mastodon GNOME GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) GTK Librsvg 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann La Malinche Malintzin’s Choices by Camila Townsend James by Percival Everett Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Federico Mena Quintero.

Guest Sarah Rainsberger Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Mayes | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, hosts Richard, Abby, and Eriol talk with guest, Sarah Rainsberger, a documentation lead at Astro, who shares her journey from teaching high school mathematics to becoming an open source contributor. Sarah elaborates on her approach to documentation, emphasizing the importance of clear, supportive, and inclusive communication to onboard new contributors effectively. She also discusses using low-tech tools like Chromebooks and cloud-based editors for open source contributions. The episode highlights the strategies employed by the Astro Docs team to recognize and value contributions. Press download now to hear more! [00:02:30] Sarah shares her background, role at Astro, how she got involved in documentation that started by fixing a bad choir website, and why she chose Astro over Gatsby and quickly became a key contributor. [00:06:49] She reflects on the moment she connected her work with the concept of “open source.” [00:07:54] Sarah talks about becoming a leader using Chromebook, taking lessons on Scrimba, and using cloud tools like CodeSandbox and Gitpod, the Astro community embracing her methods, and how she built a reputation as someone making meaningful contributions regardless of hardware. [00:14:24] Sarah explains how docs are “self-serve support” and essential to project success. [00:16:28] The conversation turns to combatting the stigma that docs are low value and Sarah addresses the false perception that documentation isn’t real development. [00:18:28] Sarah shares that Astro has over 1,000 docs contributors and details their intentional process of welcoming, crediting, and celebrating new contributors. [00:24:37] How does Astro handle lower-quality contributions? Astro uses the motto: “Not worse than what we had before.” They edit or mentor rather than reject, to build confidence and retain contributors. [00:29:12] Astro maintains a separate documentation site (“D Squared”) that outlines its processes for contributing to documentation. [00:33:25] Sarah shares where to find her work at the Astro Docs and where to find her. Quotes [00:05:26] “If I’m going in, let’s go all in.” [00:12:50] “I have chosen to maintain low tech.” [00:12:59] “I am known for my evil devices.” [00:14:36] “Docs are so important to a project that you want someone else to use or contribute to.” [00:15:28] “Docs is the most scalable type of support that you can have.” [00:16:37] “Everyone complains about docs until it’s someone else’s project.” [00:26:51] “PRs don’t just fall out of the sky; they are effort, and they are work.” [00:27:05] “There is some motivation behind this PR.” [00:31:41] “Several of our maintainers started by translating the docs.” [00:31:49] “If you want to find mistakes in your English docs, you want translators.” Spotlight [00:34:40] Abby’s’ spotlight is CommunityRule. [00:35:04] Eriol’s spotlight is State of Docs. [00:35:19] Richard’s spotlight is Nathan Schneider and the Protocol Oral History Project. [00:36:08] Sarah’s spotlight is Better GitHub Co-Authors. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Abby Cabunoc Mayes GitHub Eriol Fox GitHub Sarah Rainsberger Website Sarah Rainsberger Mastodon Non-code contributions are the secret to open source success (The ReadME Project) Astro Astro Docs Contribute to Astro Gitpod Scrimba Hugo Server CommunityRule State of Docs Better GitHub Co-Authors Sustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod Sustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring Nathan Schneider Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Sarah Rainsberger.

Guest Kade Morton Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this Maintainers Month episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer and co-host Eriol Fox talk with cybersecurity expert Kade Morton from Arachne Digital. The conversation dives into how Kade’s unconventional path through criminology and international relations led him into cybersecurity and open source. They explore the unique challenges of sustaining open source security tools, particularly for human rights activists and under-resourced groups, the tension between proprietary and open solutions, and how geopolitical contexts and human motivations influence modern digital threat landscapes. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:41] Kade explains his work is split between a day job working security operations and a startup he runs called Arachne Digital. [00:02:51] Kade tells us about his background, how he got into cybersecurity through self-teaching and open source, and how his criminology and international relations studies informed his interest in cyber threats. [00:05:17] Kade discusses the open source projects he maintains, specifically ‘Thread.’ [00:06:50] We learn about the difficulty of getting others invested in better tools and Kade discusses challenges explaining open source values to corporate environments. [00:12:26] Richard asks whether closed-source software is more secure and Kade highlights how most real world exploits target proprietary software. [00:14:57] Eriol brings up security perceptions in non-tech orgs using digital tools. Kade shares how Arachne Digital offers free services to vetted human rights orgs and he they discuss challenges balancing funding and access in human rights cybersecurity. [00:19:17] Richard reflects on monetization models for sustaining open source cybersecurity. Kade explains his company avoids fear-based marketing and promotes awareness instead. [00:22:40] Kade outlines how their threat-informed defense model works. [00:25:42] Eriol asks what changes could help improve open source sustainability. Kade discusses feeling out of place in both government and open source spaces and emphasizes cross-pollination between sectors to reduce polarity. [00:28:29] Richard introduces the concept of “digital sovereignty.” Kade warns of the risks of splintering the internet through nationalism and advocates for a balanced middle ground between centralization and fragmentation. [00:31:41] Kade shares where you can find his work on the web. Quotes [00:13:44] “It’s mostly proprietary software that’s being hacked.” [00:29:40] “The internet is the world’s largest shared resource.” Spotlight [00:32:56] Eriol’s spotlight is a repository called: The Design We Open. [00:33:49] Richard’s spotlight is 1Password and Robin Riley. [00:34:31 Kade’s spotlight is a shoutout to Mitre for TRAM and Justin Seitz who wrote a blog post on a project called, Searx. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox GitHub Kade Morton LinkedIn Arachne Digital Arachne Digital LinkedIn Arachne Digital (Medium) Arachne Digital (YouTube) Arachne Digital (Bluesky) Arachne Digital (GitHub) Thread-GitHub The National Digital Forum (NDF) The New Design Congress Open Technology Fund -Security Lab The Design We Open (GitHub) 1Password TRAM Searx Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Kade Morton.

Guests Ben Nickolls | Andrew Nesbitt Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by guests Ben Nickolls and Andrew Nesbitt to discuss the ecosyste.ms project. They explore how ecosyste.ms collects and analyzes metadata from various open-source projects to create a comprehensive database that can help improve funding allocation. The discussion covers the importance of funding the most critical open-source projects, the existing gaps in funding, and the partnership between ecosyste.ms and Open Source Collective to create funding algorithms that support entire ecosystems. They also talk about the challenges of maintaining data, reaching out to project maintainers, and the broader implications for the open-source community. Hit the download button now! [00:01:58] Andrew and Ben explain ecosyste.ms, what it does, and how it compares to Libraries.io. [00:04:59] Ecosyste.ms tracks metadata, not the packages themselves, and enriches data via dependency graphs, committers, issues, SBOMs, and more. [00:06:54] Andrew talks about finding 1,890 Git hosts and how many critical projects live outside GitHub. [00:08:37] There’s a conversation on metadata uses and SBOM parsing. [00:12:49] Richard inquires about the ecosystem.ms funds on their website which Andrew explains it’s a collaboration between Open Collective and ecosyste.ms. that algorithmically distributes funds to the most used, not most popular packages. [00:15:45] Ben shares how this is different from previous projects and brings up a past project, “Back Your Stack” and explains how ecosyste.ms is doing two things differently. [00:18:59] Ben explains how it supports payouts to other platforms and encourages maintainers to adopt funding YAML files for automation. Andrew touches on efficient outreach, payout management, and API usage (GraphQL). [00:25:36] Ben elaborates on how companies can fund ecosyste.ms (like Django) instead of curating their own lists and being inspired by Sentry’s work with the Open Source Pledge. [00:29:32] Andrew speaks about scaling and developer engagement and emphasizes their focus is on high-impact sustainability. [00:32:48] Richard asks, “Why does it matter?” Ben explains that most current funding goes to popular, not most used projects and ecosyste.ms aims to fix the gap with data backed funding, and he suggests use of open standards like 360Giving and Open Contracting Data. [00:35:46] Andrew shares his thoughts on funding the right projects by improving 1% of OSS, you uplift the quality of millions of dependent projects with healthier infrastructure, faster security updates, and more resilient software. [00:38:35] Find out where you can follow ecosyste.ms and the blog on the web. Quotes [00:11:18] “I call them interesting forks. If a fork is referenced by a package, it’ll get indexed.” [00:22:07] We’ve built a service that now moves like $25 million a year between OSS maintainers on OSC.” [00:33:23] “We don’t have enough information to make collective decisions about which projects, communities, maintainers, should receive more funding.” [00:34:23] “The NSF POSE Program has distributed hundreds of millions of dollars of funding to open source communities alone.” [00:35:47] “If you have ten, twenty thousand really critical open source projects, that actually isn’t unachievable to make those projects sustainable.” Spotlight [00:39:35] Ben’s spotlight is Jellyfin. [00:40:20] Andrew’s spotlight is zizmor. [00:42:21] Richard’s spotlight is The LaTeX Project. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Ben Nickolls LinkedIn Andrew Nesbitt Website Andrew Nesbitt Mastodon Octobox ecosyste.ms ecosyste.ms Blog Open Source Collective Open Source Collective Updates Open Source Collective Contributions Open Source Collective Contributors Open Collective 24 Pull Requests Libraries.io The penumbra of open source (EPJ Data Science) FOSDEM ’25- Open source funding: you’re doing it wrong (Andrew and Ben) Vue.js thanks.dev StackAid Back Your Stack NSF POSE Django GitHub Sponsors Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the Foss Fund Program Sustain Podcast- 3 Episodes featuring Chad Whitacre Sustain Podcast- Episode 218: Karthik Ram & James Howison on Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities Sustain Podcast-Episode 247: Chad Whitacre on the Open Source Pledge Invest in Open Infrastructure 360Giving Open Contracting Data Standard Jellyfin zizmor The LaTeX Project Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Benjamin Nickolls.

Guests Marianne Bellotti | Greg Wilson Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer talks with Marianne Bellotti, author of *Kill It with Fire, *and Greg Wilson, co-founder of the Carpentries, about what happens to your code when you leave your job and how to make sure it survives. They discuss their new paper, "10 quick tips for making your software outlive your job," and share practical strategies for protecting, documenting, and sustaining code in open source, research, and civil service environments. Whether you're preparing for a job change or want to future-proof your work, this conversation offers real-world advice for developers and researchers alike. Hit the download button now! [00:03:04] Greg and Marianne talk about challenges in code sustainability. [00:05:46] Greg speaks about how scientists often prototype rather than build production quality code. [00:09:48] We start with Step 1 in the paper: “Consider your threat mode.” Greg explains the different plans needed for individual vs. systematic departures, Marianne speaks about the importance of understanding code lifecycle-some code has a “fruit fly” lifespan others a “tortoise” one, and Richard adds to think about reframe threat modeling around future usefulness. [00:15:53] There’s a discussion on Step 2: “Get sign-off on releasing it publicly.” [00:21:30] Greg discusses Step 3: “Choose an open license” and emphasizes to stick to well-known licenses (MIT, BSD), don’t write your own, and he shares a funny story. [00:25:29] Richard talks about Step 4: “Put your code somewhere safe” and shares to upload code to GitHub, Codeberg, OSF, Zenodo, etc. Greg suggest peer-to-peer methods like torrents could help long-term preservation and Marianne emphasizes the importance of verified identities when sharing. [00:29:21] Marianne introduces Step 5: “Document your code.” Greg shares that most documentation goes unread and LLMs could help mine useful documentation from conversation records and Marianne emphasizes to focus on “how to run it” first and tests are a part of your documentation. [00:35:17] Step 6: “Make your code reproducible.” Greg and Marianne discuss using tools like Docker, uv for Python lockfiles, etc., for dependency management. [00:36:23] Step 7: “Make your code citable” and Step 8: “Encourage community adoption.” Richard mentions to add a CITATION.cff file so others can cite your code and Greg mentions a great book he read that changed the way he viewed this called, Marketing for Scientists, by Marc Kuchner. [00:38:49] Step 9: “Write a succession or sunsetting plan.” Marianne shares to define success and failure criteria for projects explicitly. [00:40:36] Step 10: “Talk about what you’re doing.” Greg emphasizes to celebrate and grieve project endings properly and Richard encourages listeners to check out the paper, read it, and if you see something missing you can contribute back. [00:43:12] Fnal thoughts from Greg and Marianne: Organize collectively to protect science and code sustainability and find your team. Quotes [00:12:10] “Weapons begin as toys.” [00:14:09] “All code is throwaway code.” [00:27:34] “Sooner or later every library burns.” [00:29:44] “Most documentation is never read by anybody because it’s not answering the questions that you actually have.” [00:41:05] “Take some time to celebrate and to grieve.” Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Marianne Bellotti (Medium) Marianne Bellotti LinkedIn Greg Wilson GitHub Greg Wilson LinkedIn “10 Quick tips for making your code last beyond your current job” (draft) Kill It With Fire by Marianne Bellotti Marketing for Scientists: How to Shine in Tough Times by Marc J. Kuchner Codeberg Zenodo OSF Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Greg Wilson and Marianne Bellotti.

Guest Dirkjan Ochtman Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special Maintainer Month episode of Sustain, host Richard speaks with Dirkjan Ochtman, a long-time open source contributor and Rust advocate. They dive deep into what it's like maintaining critical infrastructure libraries, the motivations behind taking over "abandonware," and how funding ecosystems like GitHub Sponsors and thanks.dev help sustain low-level dependencies. Dirkjan also reflects on how Rust’s design lends itself well to long-term maintainability and shares thoughts on the challenges of burnout, context switching, and ensuring project continuity. Hit the download button now! [00:01:33] Dirkjan explains how he chooses which projects he’s maintaining, being passionate about memory safety via Rust, and maintaining tools like Rustls, Hickory DNS, and Quinn. [00:03:14] Dirkjan describes his motivation for maintaining abandonware and sees it as providing value to the community. [00:04:23] ISRG funds Dirkjan’s work on memory-safe DNS and TLS libraires, and they are replacing C-based libraires with Rust equivalents. [00:05:33] Dirkjan uses thanks.dev to help fund maintainers through the full dependency graph and revenue is limited but promising. [00:08:06] Richard brings up Tidelift and Dirkjan mentions it’s not yielding results for Rust projects yet because the Rust ecosystem is smaller. [00:09:30] We hear Dirkjan’s journey into Rust, starting in Python but frustrated by lack of type safety and performance, and creating his own compiler before appreciating Rust’s complexity. [00:12:20] Dirkjan talks about his transition from Python to Rust. [00:13:39] Dirkjan uses PyO3 to create Python bindings for Rust libraries. [00:15:31] Richard wonders why projects become unmaintained and Dirkjan responds that people have life events, job changes, or shifting interests. [00:17:11] How are unmaintained projects flagged? Dirkjan uses the RustSec Advisory DB to detect projects with no active maintainers. [00:18:47] Dirkjan avoids burnout as a maintainer by keeping the scope narrow, only responds to PRs, doesn’t overcommit, and focuses on high-efficiency, low-effort maintenance. [00:19:51] Rust has a strong system, built-in unit tests, great CI support, and Dirkjan encourages atomic commits to simplify code review. [00:21:28] Dirkjan speaks about languages that are more maintainer safe. [00:22:18] Richard brings up attack vectors and the ‘left-pad incident.’ Dirkjan shares how he builds trust via his public GitHub record. [00:24:17] We hear Dirkjan’s offboarding and succession planning as he explains handing off projects like Askama and promoting multiple maintainers to reduce bus factor. [00:26:08] Dirkjan’s long-term vision for OSS sustainability is he hopes to move higher in the stack and wants to make high-quality software easier to build. [00:27:38] Dirkjan explains why he prefers to do asynchronous collaboration over pair programming. [00:28:52] Dirkjan discusses Rust’s long-term ecosystem stability. [00:31:09] Find out where you can follow Dirkjan on the web. Quotes [00:03:23] “You call it abandonware and I call it a dependency that has a million users.” [00:19:02] “[When I take on a project], I don’t take on the burden of proactively improving the project.” [00:19:11] “I will be there when someone submits a PR." [00:20:37] “I ask folks to make small changes: atomic commits.” Spotlight [00:31:37] Richard’s spotlight is Allan Day. [00:32:20] Dirkjan’s spotlight is Xilem. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Dirkjan Ochtman LinkedIn Dirkjan Ochtman Blog Dirkjan Ochtman Mastodon Dirkjan Ochtman GitHub Dirkjan Ochtman Bluesky Rust Rustls Hickory DNS Quinn Internet Security Research Group (ISRG) Let’s Encrypt Automatic Certificate Management Environment PyO3 user guide Sustain Podcast-Episode 108: Sarah Gran and Josh Aas: Sustainable Digital Infrastructure with Memory Safe Code Sustain Podcast-Episode 148: Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding Tidelift RustSec Advisory Database-GitHub Askama Allan Day’s GNOME Blog Xilem Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Dirkjan Ochtman.

Guest Michelle Barker Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer welcomes Michelle Barker, Director of the Research Software Alliance (ReSA), for an in-depth conversation about the critical yet often overlooked role of research software in open science. Michelle shares her journey from sociologist to open science advocate, unpacking how ReSA fosters global collaboration to support software developed for research. Together, they explore what it means to build “social infrastructure” in the open source ecosystem, the challenges of aligning international stakeholders, and how ReSA is shaping the future of research through strategy, connection, and community-driven solutions. Press the download button now to hear more! [00:01:58] Michelle explains how she got involved in open science and open source software. [00:04:35] Why Research Software? Michelle shares that ReSA was founded to coordinate globally on research software, which lacked unified international representation unlike open data. [00:07:21] We hear about ReSA’s engagement strategy and the three main strategies: knowledge sharing, stakeholder collaboration, and governance evolution. [00:09:37] ReSA includes RSEs as one of many stakeholders and works broadly across funders, policymakers, infrastructure providers, and more. [00:10:26] Research software is defined as software developed within a research context to solve a research problem and most is open source but not all. [00:13:12] Richard asks about tracking engagement, and Michelle shares it’s hard to quantify outcomes, but standard metrics include newsletter subs, citations, and forum attendance. [00:15:08] Michelle explains the role of social infrastructure. [00:17:37] What’s hard about being a social infrastructure? Michelle talks about the challenge of how to motivate groups of people to work together. [00:19:52] Michelle shares her personal approach to networking: research, targeting key individuals, emotional engagement, and strategic planning for conferences. [00:24:35] A new strategy plan is rolling out and Michelle shares what’s different. [00:27:32] ReSA is working to establish research software as its own recognized field. [00:29:57] Michelle recognizes shared challenges of both open source and research sectors. The keys to success are spotlight wins and demonstrate value through supported infrastructure and recognized contributions. [00:30:40] Find out where you can find out more about ReSA. Spotlight [00:31:11] Richard’s spotlight is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). [00:31:48] Michelle’s spotlight is Softcite. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Michelle Barker LinkedIn Research Software Alliance (ReSA) ReSA LinkedIn ReSA Mastodon ReSA Bluesky Sustain Podcast-Episode 264: Neil Chue Hong on the Software Sustainability Institute USRSE’25: Philadelphia, PA Oct 6-8, 2025 US-RSE NOAA Softcite Strategic Report Overview Full Strategic Report Defining Research Software: a controversial discussion Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Michelle Barker.

Guests Eriol Fox | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Leslie Hawthorn | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this special episode of Sustain, Richard has a discussion with guests and fellow hosts Eriol Fox, Abby Cabunoc Mayes, Leslie Hawthorne, and Gunner, about the recent virtual Sustain event discussing the current state and future of sustaining open source software. The conversation covers a broad range of topics, from the impact of AI on open source and the complexity of corporate funding, to the importance of succession planning and the need for a continued focus on equity and inclusion. The group also express gratitude to the community and highlight the necessity of creating safe spaces for deep and meaningful discussions about the human aspects of open source. Future events and potential topics are also teased. Hit the download button now! [00:01:45] Gunner shares an event summary starting on the evolution of SustainOSS, and talks about the topics ranging from usage metrics, donor programs, geopolitical barriers in FOSS, and details the working sessions. [00:03:34] Everyone shares their personal takeaway from the event. [00:09:57] We hear about the conversations that were missed at the event and what everyone would like to talk about in the future about sustaining open source. [00:17:56] Gunner briefs us on the next event with a possibility of another forum focused entirely on AI, and Richard proposes exploring digital sovereignty and how it intersects with open source principles. [00:19:39] We end with final thoughts from everyone: Gunner expresses gratitude for the community, Abby is grateful for the space and conversations, Leslie gives a shoutout to UN Open Source Week for fostering global cooperation, Eriol praises Jonah Duckles for putting out “Ten Simple Rules for Academic Open Source Collaborations with Industry,” and Richard encourages listeners to keep contributing and engaging with the Sustain community. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Eriol Fox Website Allen “Gunner” Gunn LinkedIn Leslie Hawthorn LinkedIn Abby Cabunoc Mayes Website Monki Gras 2025 UN Open Source Week 2025 Ten Simple Rules for Academic Open Source Collaborations with Industry by Jonah Duckles, Dan Sholler, Beth Duckles Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound

Guest Sean Goggins Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer chats with guest Sean Goggins, a tenured full Professor of Computer Science at the University of Missouri. Sean discusses his extensive involvement in the open source community, particularly through his work with the CHAOSS Project, a Linux Foundation initiative focused on understanding and improving open-source project sustainability. Their conversation covers Sean's academic background, his role in CHAOSS, the importance of distributed leadership, and how metrics can impact the sustainability of open source projects. Sean also shares insights into his teaching methods, the challenges of maintaining open source software, and the future direction of his work on CHAOSS and Augur. Hit the download button now! [00:01:25] Sean shares that he’s a professor specializing in software engineering, algorithms, data science, and visualization, and he discusses his tenure status and passion for research and open source work. [00:02:41] Sean explains how open source leadership is distributed rather than centralized. [00:04:45] We hear how the CHAOSS Project emerged from studying open source governance and leadership. Sean and Matt Germonprez started working on open source collaboration data and a metrics-focused discussion at a Linux Foundation Summit that led to the founding of the CHAOSS Project in 2017. [00:08:23] Richard asks Sean how he balances research, teaching, and open source. Sean discusses how he splits time between research (40%), teaching (40%), and service (20%), with CHAOSS being a major part of his research efforts. [00:13:27] Sean explains that the Augur Project was born out of a need for structured open source data tracking. [00:15:18] Richard asks Sean if he teaches his students about open source, and he explains that he uses CHAOSS and Auger to teach students about GitHub collaboration, pull requests, and open source workflows. [00:19:25] Sean shares his insights on research and open source. He emphasizes his involvement in maintaining software and aiding organizations in making sense of CHAOSS metrics through Augur, which has given him a deep understanding of open source development. [00:20:44] Sean explains why he thinks metrics help make projects more sustainable and how the CHAOSS community has benefitted from fostering a welcoming environment for both technical and non-technical contributors. [00:25:23] We hear some challenges within CHAOSS where it’s been difficult to build a strong developer community around CHAOSS software tools and maintaining open source software requires significant effort. [00:28:11] He goes further to explain how to be a better project and that there’s potential for improving project sustainability through structured mentoring and governance. [00:35:07] Sean shares CHAOSS Project’s future and research goals. Quotes [00:03:46] “Distributed leadership: this exists in most of open source. There’s not often a single individual who drives an entire project.” [00:09:18] “You have 40% of your time for teaching, 40% of your time for research, and 20% of your time for service.” [00:12:15] “There’s a challenge of being a university professor. The advantage is you can do what you want, the challenge is that you have to set your own boundaries.” [00:23:12] “A leading indicator for community health is how many newcomers you have coming in over time.” [00:28:14] “How can I have a better project? It’s the same as going to a family reunion and saying, ‘How can we be a better family’?” Spotlight [00:37:25] Richard’s spotlight is BibtexParser. [00:38:21] Sean’s spotlight is Stuart Geiger. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Sean Goggins Website Sean Goggins X Nora McDonald Website Nora McDonald-Commonwealth Cyber Initiative Sustain Podcast- 3 episodes featuring guest Georg Link Sustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest Dawn Foster Matt Germonprez-Univ. of Nebraska Omaha The Linux Kernel Maintainer Summit-Tokyo, Japan 2025 Alfred P. Sloan Foundation CHAOSS CHAOSS-GrimoireLab CHAOSS-Augur Kelly Blincoe-University of Auckland James Howison Sustain Podcast- episode 218 featuring guest James Howison Sustain Podcast-episode 243 featuring guest Elizabeth Barron Sustain Podcast-episode 65 featuring guest Brian Proffitt Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring guest Duane O’Brien Sustain Podcast-episode 200 featuring guest Stuart Geiger Digital Infrastructure Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest Rayya El Zein BibtexParser Stuart Geiger Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Sean Goggins.

Guest Neil Chue Hong Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, hosts Richard Littauer and Justin Dorfman talk with Neil Chue Hong, Director of the Software Sustainability Institute (SSI). They discuss the SSI's mission to sustain software used in research, the institute's history and funding, the role of research software engineers, and the newly launched Research Software Maintenance Fund (RSMF) with £4.8 million dedicated to supporting research software. Neil shares insights into the collaboration, training initiatives, and policy work done by the SSI to promote sustainability in software development. The episode also touches on the impact of large funding initiatives like those from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative and the evolving role of software development in the age of large language models (LLMs). Hit the download button now! [00:01:44] Neil explains SSI’s mission and purpose. [00:02:27] Richard inquires about SSI’s funding model and how long SSI has existed. Neil explains SSI is a government funded collaboration via UK Research and Innovation (UKRI), and it was founded in 2010 and is funded through 2028. [00:05:03] Richard highlights SSI’s impact and Neil discusses how SSI helped establish “Research Software Engineer (RSE)’ as a recognized role. [00:08:20] SSI’s annual Collaborations Workshop (May 13-15 in Stirling, UK) is mentioned, and Neil recalls a pivotal collaboration with Greg Wilson (Software Carpentry), which expanded training programs. [00:11:16] Neil explains that the SSI has evolved from consultancy to training, community initiatives, and policy advocacy to scale its impact and ensure long-term sustainability in research software. [00:13:57] Richard introduces SSI’s new £4.8M Research Software Maintenance Fund (RSMF). Neil explains it supports maintaining existing research software and it’s funded by the UK’s Digital Research Infrastructure Programme (UKRI). [00:16:54] A question comes up about the geopolitical impact of this funding and Neil states the UK is maintaining leadership in research software sustainability, not just focusing on national capability. [00:20:54] Neil defines research software products being targeted by the RSMF as software used beyond its original development team. [00:22:54] Richard asks if £4.8M is a significant investment and Neil explains this is comparable to past UK research software grants.. [00:25:10] Neil acknowledges Chan Zuckerberg Initiative (CZI) for improving funding models for research software. [00:29:45] Justin asks how LLMs are changing research software engineering. Neil compares LLMs’ impact on software development to smartphones revolutionizing photography. [00:34:05] Find out where you can connect with UKRI, SSI, and with Neil on the web. Quotes [00:02:07] “We’ve got this motto: Better Software, Better Research.” [00:29:03] “You can define what is clearly sci-fi, you can define what is clearly research software, but making an arbitrary cut-off point is really hard.” Spotlight [00:35:13] Justin’s spotlight is ghostty. [00:35:40] Richard’s spotlight is Olympus Tough cameras. [00:36:34] Neil’s spotlight is The Carpentries and Cinema For All. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Justin Dorfman X Neil Chue Hong LinkedIn Software Sustainability Institute (SSI) Save the date for Collaborations Workshop 2025 (CW25)-SSI UKRI awards the Software Sustainability Institute £4.8m to strengthen research software maintenance in the UK (SSI) Digital Research Infrastructure Programme (UKRI) Sustain Podcast- Episode 43: Investing in Open Infrastructure with Kaitlin Thaney Sustain Podcast- Episode 230: Kari L. Jordan on The Carpentries Sustain Podcast- Episode 235: The State of Open Infrastructure 2024, from IOI with Emmy Tsang Open Source in Academia Map ghostty Olympus Tough camera The Carpentries Cinema For All Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Neil Chue Hong.

Guest Alison Hill Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes We’re kicking off the new year of Sustain with host Richard Littauer discussing sustaining open source software with guest, Alison Hill, VP of Product at Anaconda, and a cognitive scientist with a PhD in psychology. Alison shares her journey from academia to industry, emphasizing the importance of statistics and data science in her career. She explains her role at Anaconda, focusing on developing secure and compatible distribution of Python packages and managing the community repository, Anaconda.org. The conversation covers the significance of product management in open source projects, particularly those with corporate backing, and how these roles can help in balancing user needs and business goals. In addition, Alison shares her thoughts on the challenges and strategies for maintaining open source projects without corporate support and touches on the ‘palmer penguins’ project. Click to download now! [00:01:13] Alison discusses her transition from academic research in cognitive science to industry and data science, emphasizing her passion for statistics and education. [00:02:41] Alison explains her work at Anaconda, focusing on product management and the Anaconda distribution, aiming to ease the use of Python and R packages in the industry and academia. She also elaborates on other projects she oversees, including Anaconda.org and its role in supporting open source projects and enterprise needs. [00:05:17] We hear how Anaconda sustains itself financially through enterprise offerings and the balance of supporting open source while maintaining a business model. [00:07:14] Alison shares her previous experience as the first PM of data science communication at Posit (formerly RStudio) and her role in enhancing data science education and product development. [00:12:49] Richard and Alison explore the challenges of sustaining open source projects without corporate backing and strategies for maintaining personal and project health in the open source community. Alison discusses common mistakes companies make by confusing project management with product management in open source projects. [00:17:18] Richard asks about the skills needed for developers to adopt a product-oriented approach. Alison suggests that successful product-oriented developers often have high empathy for end-users and experience with the pain points at scale, which helps them anticipate and innovate solutions effectively. [00:20:49] Richard expresses concerns about the sustainability of smaller, community-led open source projects that lack corporate backing and the structured support that comes with it. Alison acknowledges her limited experience with non-corporate open source projects but highlights the difficulty in maintaining such projects without institutional support, and she shares her personal challenges with keeping up with open source project demands. [00:27:41] Alison stresses the importance of clear goals and understanding the implications of joining larger ecosystems, reflects on the need for clarity about the desired outcomes when joining larger ecosystems, and shares examples of successful and unsuccessful engagements in such settings. [00:29:52] She discusses alternative sustainability models, including paid support and subscriptions. [00:33:00] Alison brings up the example of Apache Arrow and the challenges it faced with corporate sponsorship. [00:34:23] We wrap up with Richard acknowledging that not all open source projects require significant funding or formal business models, and Alison explains the ‘palmerpenguins’ project she did at the beginning of COVID. [00:37:07] Find out where you can follow Alison on the web. Quotes [00:22:18] “What is the minimum level of support you need to not feel like you’re drowning?” Spotlight [00:38:14] Richard’s spotlight is Bernard Cornwell. [00:38:39] Alison’s spotlight is the book, Impossible Creatures. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Alison Hill, PhD Website Alison Presmanes Hill, PhD LinkedIn Alison Presmanes Hill GitHub Anaconda Anaconda.org The Third Bit-Dr. Greg Wilson Sustain Podcast-Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russel Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS Intercom on Product Management Sustain Podcast-Episode 135: Tracy Hinds on Node.js’s CommComm and PMs in Open Source Hadley Wickham palmerpenguins-GitHub Bernard Cornwell Impossible Creatures by Katherine Rundell Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Alison Hill.

Guest Brian Muenzenmeyer Panelists Richard Littauer | Abbigail Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer is joined by co-host Abigail Cabunoc Mayes and guest Brian Muenzenmeyer, a seasoned open source contributor. Brian shares his journey in web development, his experiences with burnout, and insights from his new book, Approachable Open Source. Some key topics discussed include contributing to open source projects, community building, maintaining balance, and funding models for sustainability. This episode emphasizes the role of diverse contributions and the importance of creating accessible avenues for all kinds of contributions in open source. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:40] Brian discusses his book, which offers practical advice for navigating open source. He reflects on his career journey, from early contributions to burnout and recovery. He shares his humble beginnings with jQuery Mobile and the steps that led him to maintain major projects like Pattern Lab. [00:04:21] Brian opens up about his experience with burnout and how it influenced the writing of his book. [00:06:42] Brian emphasizes the importance of designing sustainable open source communities. [00:08:41] Richard, Brian, and Abby explore the concept of “pace layers” in open source, highlighting the dynamic balance between innovation and stability. [00:14:10] Chapter 7 in Brian’s book is discussed where Brian advocates for corporate contributions to open source and shares tips for individuals looking to get involved. [00:20:04] Brian provides practical advice for maintainers, including time management, fostering diverse roles, and creating approachable entry points for contributors. [00:25:01] The conversation delves into the challenges of improving diversity in open source communities and the importance of celebrating successes. [00:28:39] Find out where you can get Brian’s book, Approachable Open Source. Digital copies are available worldwide, and physical copies shipping to the U.S. and Canada. Quotes [00:05:29] “There isn’t a dichotomy between consumption and contribution.” [00:13:48] “The work that we’re doing isn’t really for us. If you’re making open source, it’s not really for you, you’re sharing it with the world.” [00:20:28] “If you look at a mature open source project and try to emulate it at the outset, you’re going to be disappointed and you’re going to feel like you’re always behind.” [00:23:09] “You don’t need permission to do your job.” [00:23:41] “You’re already empowered to fix things that you see are broken.” [00:23:57] “Instead of buying a maintainer a coffee, spend a coffee cup’s amount of time looking at their issue log.” Spotlight [00:30:05] Richard’s spotlight is Stephen Colbert. [00:30:38] Abby’s spotlight is Calibre. [00:30:54] Brian’s spotlight is his good friend, Geoff Pursell. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Abby Cabunoc Mayes X Brian Muenzenmeyer Website Brian Muenzenmeyer's Bluesky Brian Muenzenmeyer LinkedIn Approachable Open Source By Brian Muenzenmeyer Colin Dean-GitHub Pace Layers Thinking: Paul Saffo and Stewart Brand @ The Interval Ship Faster By Building Design Systems Slower By Josh Clark Ecosyste.ms Ecosystem Funds: Curated Support For Your Critical Software Dependencies By Ben Nickolls John Oliver (Not Stephen Colbert)! Calibre Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Brian Muenzenmeyer.

Guest Alexander Petros Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Join host Richard Littauer as he dives into the world of open source sustainability with Alexander Petros, core maintainer of htmx and freelance software engineer. Today, they explore the evolution of HTML, the power of lightweight web protocols, and the broader implications of open-source software for the future of the web. Alexander shares his insights on building sustainable digital infrastructure, using simple tools effectively, and rethinking web development paradigms. Hit download now! [00:01:40] Alexander explains htmx as a lightweight front-end JavaScript library enhancing HTML capabilities. [00:03:16] There’s a discussion about HTML’s design for behavior and interactivity and a comparison of traditional HTML with modern practices, including JavaScript-heavy frameworks. [00:05:50] We hear the origins of htmx, how it started as a jQuery extension called intercooler.js, and the evolution during the pandemic to a standalone library. [00:09:16] Alexander explains building for the long term, why lightweight, adaptable systems matter, and reflects on the durability of early web standards and tools. [00:12:17] Richard inquires about what Alexander envisions a hundred years from now with htmx. [00:14:57] Balancing simplicity and scalability is discussed about HTML’s capabilities for large-scale applications and why many developers overcomplicate solutions unnecessarily. [00:17:40] Alexander critiques over-reliance on tools like Docker and large-scale build systems and advocates for simpler development environments like SQLite. [00:19:42] Alexander talks about why open source frameworks like React solve organizational problems for tech giants. [00:25:42] Richard tells us he’s been spending time on the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature as a foundational system for species classification and Alexander speaks about the challenges of contributing to protocols governed by large corporations and why HTML remains a uniquely sustainable and universal platform. [00:28:22] Richard asks Alexander if he’s thought about the 1000 year approach to the work he’s doing. [00:32:21] Find out where you can follow Alexander and his blog online. Quotes [00:13:11] “The web is going to be the most effective delivery mechanism for software for the next couple of decades.” [00:14:12] “If we look at the tools that we have available today, which tools can we use that are most likely to get us to that fifty, hundred year useful piece of software?” [00:24:06] “Different structural project models produce very different software.” Spotlight [00:33:11] Richard’s spotlight is the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. [00:34:07] Alexander’s spotlight is better-sqlite3. Links SustainOSS podcast@sustainoss.org richard@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Alexander Petros Website Alexander Petros LinkedIn Unplanned Obsolescence (Alexander’s Blog) Building the Hundred-Year Web Service with htmx- Alexander Petros (YouTube) htmx Sustain Podcast-Episode 238: Julia Evans and Wizard Zines xkcd-927: How Standards Proliferate Julia Evans Blog International Code of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) better-sqlite3 Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Alexander Petros.