The Angus & Pete Show CX Podcast

Welcome back to The Angus and Pete Show for Series 2. Angus and Pete tackle "A is for Adoption" in this episode. Everyone's building or buying contact center tech, but driving user adoption is the hard part. They discuss why many deployments fail: it’s not just tech, it’s organizational change, managerial vision, and employee willingness. We need to focus on Time to Value (TtV), which means delivering tangible business benefits quickly. The job starts, not finishes, at deployment. And remember, you must tell the users what’s in it for them. They also explore key paradoxes like the required hybrid approach to automation versus human touch. Key Takeaways Adoption is now a *strategic business imperative*, not just a function you tack on at the end of a project. When deploying new technology, you have to prioritize *Time to Value* (TtV)—get users to an "aha moment" early on—and measure business outcomes, not just basic activities like agent logins. Training shouldn't be a box-checking exercise; it should be *continuous education* focused on explaining the overall desired outcome and what benefit the new system offers to the people using it.

In this recap, Angus and Pete look at the real story behind AI in the world of customer engagement. They discuss a study that found AI isn’t taking jobs but is creating new tasks for workers. The conversation also covers how AI is changing the way we measure customer service. It’s becoming less about speed and more about making things easy for the customer. They finish by talking about the often-overlooked costs and risks, from data quality and compliance to the environmental impact of AI. Here are five things you will learn from the episode: AI isn't taking jobs in customer service yet. Right now, it’s more about helping people be more effective and efficient, rather than replacing them. Benefits depend on company support. You only see real time savings and quality improvements when employers actively train and encourage their staff to use AI as part of their daily work. Metrics are changing. Customer experience is evolving, and new measures like customer effort score and sentiment analysis are becoming more important. There are significant hidden costs and risks. You have to consider platform costs, implementation, data quality, compliance, and environmental impact to see the full picture. It’s a strategic shift, not a simple tech fix. For AI to work, it requires a cultural change within the organisation. Everyone is still learning, so honest conversations are important.

In this recap of season one, Angus and Pete explore why a seemingly perfect sales proposal can get rejected at the final hurdle: the boardroom. They discuss the common pitfalls sellers face and offer a guide on how to equip your internal champions to successfully navigate the C-suite, especially the CFO. The Champion's Dilemma: Never assume your internal champion can effectively sell your solution to their board. Buyers often have little to no experience presenting business cases, so as a seller, it's crucial to coach and prepare them. Consider working with multiple champions to get a triangulated view of the organisation's priorities. Speak the Board's Language: Executives are laser-focused on the bottom line and want absolute clarity. The pitch must be concise, covering the problem you're solving, the cost of inaction, and your solution in simple terms. Use the company's own data to make your case, as generic case studies won't resonate. Know Your Audience: Understand the different priorities within the C-suite. The CFO is focused on financial impact and investment, while the CEO cares more about strategic alignment. Be aware of other influencers, including non-executive directors who may sit on multiple boards. Master the Financials: For the CFO, price isn't everything; being the cheapest can even be a red flag. Your champion must be prepared to discuss Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), payback periods (ideally under three years), and potential bill shock from usage-based models. Be precise with financial terms like ROI versus cost savings. Address Risk Head-On: Boards are risk-averse, so proactively address financial, operational, and execution risks. Remember to factor in opportunity cost—what the business can't do if it chooses your project. Emphasise how your solution minimises both business risk and the personal risk to board members' reputations. Prepare and Role-Play: Support your champions by helping them prepare a concise, one-page summary of the business case. Role-play the board presentation with them to build confidence and anticipate objections like "it's too expensive" or "the current system is fine". This preparation ensures they can deliver a quick, punchy, and compelling message.

We revisit our conversations on customer engagement, CX, and industry analysts. We focus the first of our CX Insider guests, Steve, a former Gartner analyst. He shared his views on the real purpose of analysts, the work behind Magic Quadrants, and how analyst events have changed. Steve's "three wishes" give great advice for the CX industry and beyond. We reinforce that bringing people and operations together is vital for seamless customer journeys. Here are three things we learned: Analysts, especially at big firms like Gartner, primarily focus on helping end-user clients spend their money wisely, not just serving vendors. Creating seamless customer journeys depends on the convergence of people and operations. Technology isn't the main blocker; internal silos and personal agendas are. Industry reports, such as Gartner's Magic Quadrant, are often out of date by the time they are published. The lengthy production process means they can be "ancient history" in today's fast-moving market.

Angus and Pete revisit their "RFP Trilogy" (Episodes 5–7) with bonus insights from CX6 insider Terry (Episode 21). RFPs in a Nutshell: RFPs are structured buying processes designed for transparency, competition, and clarity. For Buyers: You’re selling too—make the opportunity attractive. Set clear goals, engage stakeholders, and publish evaluation criteria. Communicate well and stick to timelines. For Sellers: RFPs are costly (£30k per bid) and win rates are low (often under 10%). Default to "no bid" unless it’s a strong fit. Cold RFPs rarely convert. Terry’s Four RFP Types: Full and Fair, Not So Open, Fantasy Shoppers, Free Consultancy. Use BLUF—answer clearly and early; focus your summary on requirements, price, and value. Price often decides—be competitive. Be honest; fake social value is just a hidden discount. RFPs aren't going away—but with structure and realism, they can work for everyone.

In the first of the Season 1 recaps, Angus and Pete reveal what CX buyers really want and how to stand out in the riveting world of customer engagement sales. Learn to focus on the buyer's journey, not your own sales process. Simplify your message by offering clear recommendations and limiting options, as too many choices lead to confusion. Use compelling stories instead of bullet points to help buyers visualize solutions. Tailor product demos to the audience and buying stage, showing what truly matters. Crucially, reduce buyer risk and anxiety to overcome apathy and secure the sale. Here are 5 key takeaways: • Prioritise the buyer's process. • Offer clear recommendations, limit options. • Tell relatable stories, avoid bullet points. • Tailor demos to the audience and buying stage. • Reduce buyer risk and anxiety.

In this episode, your hosts Angus Peacey and Pete Brown delve into three compelling news articles from 10th June, exploring the dynamic interplay between humans and Artificial Intelligence (AI) in customer service, contact centres, and customer experience (CX) News Topics Dissected: The Human Touch in AI Assistants: Drawing on an article from Fast Company titled "AI Assistants Still Need a Human Touch" by Alexander Kosavan, we explore why AI, despite its advancements, still struggles with understanding user context and intent. Gartner's Prediction: AI and Workforce Reduction: We dissect a thought-provoking Gartner article predicting that 50% of organisations will abandon plans to reduce their customer service workforce due to AI. Tackling High Agent Turnover in Contact Centres: Based on an article from customerthink.com by Wailios Aaron Batsis, this discussion confronts the persistent problem of high staff turnover in contact centres.   Tune in to discover the hosts' "biting judgment and unpopular opinions" on these pressing topics, and gain valuable insights into the evolving landscape of customer engagement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Key Takeaways for Listeners: AI Needs a Human-Centric Approach: AI, in its current state, often struggles with context and emotional intelligence. While it can be useful for tailoring content, over-personalisation can be counterproductive or creepy. AI is Not a Panacea; Human Touch Remains Critical: Many organisations are re-evaluating their plans to replace human agents with AI. The focus is shifting to how AI can support and enhance human capabilities, rather than eliminate them, as trust is paramount in customer service. Embrace the Hybrid Model for Best Results: The most effective way to deliver a good customer experience is through a hybrid model that combines AI with human agents. AI should act as a complement to humans, not a replacement, aiding efficiency and accuracy while humans provide empathy. "Digital First, Not Digital Only" is Key: Before attempting to implement AI, organisations must establish a strong foundation of clear digital journeys and channels. AI should be integrated strategically into this existing digital framework, not seen as a prerequisite for going digital. Re-evaluate Traditional Contact Centre Staffing Models: The current model for contact centre staffing is flawed, leading to high turnover and high costs. Exploring cultural changes, freelance models, and flexible hybrid working options can improve agent satisfaction, reduce churn, and potentially enhance service quality. AI Can Support Freelance Agents: If considering a freelance agent model, AI can play a crucial role in providing the consistency and depth of knowledge that might otherwise be a concern with independent agents.

Join us for an exclusive deep dive with CX Insider Vinay Parmar, Managing Director of Customer Whisperers Ltd, as he shares invaluable insights from his journey from contact centre agent to board-level executive. Discover the stark realities of how customer experience plays out in the boardroom and learn what truly resonates with senior leadership. This episode offers a candid look at bridging the gap between sales and strategic decision-making. Here are the key takeaways from our conversation with Vinay: • Lived experience is incredibly valuable for leaders as it fosters empathy and enables a deeper understanding of frontline operations, helping to challenge narratives from the top. • Customer Experience (CX) encompasses all customer touchpoints, forming collective memories that drive future decisions, extending far beyond typical customer service or contact centre metrics. • Inconsistency in customer interactions significantly erodes trust and loyalty, impacting a brand's reputation and future business relationships. • Boards fundamentally prioritise risk and reward, focusing on increasing revenue, reducing costs, and ensuring regulatory compliance when evaluating initiatives. • Effective selling to the boardroom requires active listening, thorough research into specific problems, and presenting solutions with utmost simplicity, avoiding generic pitches or complex technical jargon. If you want to find out more about Vinay or contact him, go to his website: https://customerwhisperers.com/

Curious how software products successfully reach customers? Episode 27 of The Angus and Pete Show tackles a listener's dilemma: defining the different go-to-market roles in a software vendor. Angus and Pete break down key functions, from product strategy and channel partnerships to sales enablement, especially for SaaS products with reseller channels. Learn why clear ownership, consistent messaging, and strong enablement are crucial to avoid chaos and drive market success. Takeaways from this episode: Product is the Foundational Role: The Product House defines the product, its market fit, features, packaging, pricing strategy, and even operational elements like billing and order processing. Channel Strategy is Critical for Market Entry and Scale: The Channel organisation owns the route to market through partners, focusing on segmentation, recruitment, enablement, and financial incentives like spiffs and market development funds. Sales Enablement Bridges the Gap: A defined sales enablement function translates product and marketing material into actionable insights for both internal sales teams and external reseller partners, ensuring consistent and efficient communication. Consistent Messaging is Non-Negotiable: All teams, internal and external, must deliver a unified message, with the proposition "nailed up front," to avoid buyer confusion or exploitation of inconsistencies. Authoritative Cross-Functional Ownership is Paramount: Success hinges on clear, authoritative owners in the Product House, Channel organisation, and Sales, who must collaborate seamlessly due to their fundamental interdependencies.

In this episode, Angus and Pete focus on the significance of sales propositions, brand perception, and the shift from product-centric to proposition-centric strategies. They discuss how understanding the differences between brand, product, and proposition can enhance marketing efforts and drive sales. The conversation emphasizes the importance of crafting compelling propositions that resonate with buyers and differentiate offerings in a crowded market. Takeaways Understand the difference between brand, product, and proposition. Buyers are focused on their own problems, not on your product specs. Differentiating is key to competitive advantage. Use the right language for your audience at the right time. A strong proposition is essential for effective selling. A good proposition gives you strategic differentiation. Crafting effective propositions is challenging but necessary. Focus on the customer’s needs, not just product features. Keywords customer engagement, sales proposition, brand, product, customer experience, differentiation, marketing strategy, contact center, CX, value proposition

In this episode, Angus and Pete talk to Phil about his extensive experience in sales engineering. He emphasizes the evolution of the sales engineer's role, the importance of understanding customer needs, and the critical nature of collaboration with product management. The conversation also covers the significance of demos, navigating RFPs, and the training and development of sales engineers. Phil shares valuable insights and pearls of wisdom for those in the sales engineering field. Takeaways Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective sales. Demos should be tailored to the customer's specific requirements. Building relationships with customers is key to success. Collaboration with sellers and product management is vital for sales engineers. Training and developing sales engineers is an ongoing process. Listening and asking the right questions can lead to better outcomes. The sales engineering landscape is changing with the introduction of new technologies. Keywords customer engagement, sales engineering, demos, RFPs, product management, training, sales relationships, customer needs, sales process, technology

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the evolution and current state of dialers in CX and contact centers. They cover a bit of background, the various modes of dialing, the impact of digital channels on customer communication, and the integration of outbound voice and digital strategies to enhance customer experience. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding regulations and the need for a seamless customer journey across different communication channels. Takeaways Dialers are still very relevant in customer engagement strategies. Digital channels are becoming the default for customer interactions. Asynchronous message channels see higher engagement rates than voice calls. Voice communication remains the go-to for urgent matters. It’s not about “what channel?”, but “how do you use them all together?" Successful outbound uses a digital first approach Digital channels + outbound voice could make the inbound CC obsolete. Keywords Customer Engagement, Dialler, Dialers, Digital Channels, Customer Experience, Outbound Calls, Predictive Dialling, Dialing, Voice Communication, Asynchronous Messaging, Customer Satisfaction, CX

In this conversation, Terry shares his extensive experience in CX and Contact Centre sales, particularly in the public sector. He discusses the differences between public and private sector sales, the intricacies of the RFP process, and the importance of understanding the bidding landscape. Terry emphasizes the need for honesty in the procurement process and the significance of social value in public sector contracts. He also categorizes different types of RFPs and shares insights on how to navigate the tender process effectively. Takeaways Most public sector procurements try to get the best for their organisation. The public sector sales process is structured but challenging. Understanding the cost gate is crucial in public sector bidding. The average success rate for cold tenders is between 7-8%. Not all public procurement processes are fair and transparent. RFPs often includes poorly articulated and unrealistic requirements. Engaging in early market conversations can influence procurement processes. Honesty in the tender process can lead to better outcomes for all parties. Social value is a critical component of public sector contracts. May the 4th should be a national holiday for Star Wars fans. Keywords customer experience, public sector, sales, RFP, bidding process, social value, procurement, tender process, business development, honesty

In this episode, Angus and Pete, focus on the discovery process in sales. They discuss the importance of understanding customer pain points, engaging multiple stakeholders, and the role of technology and AI in enhancing customer experience. The conversation emphasizes the need for thoughtful questioning and effective stakeholder management to ensure successful outcomes in sales processes. Takeaways Discovery is not just one step; it's everywhere in the sales process. Ask thoughtful questions that encourage the buyer to think differently. Engage with multiple stakeholders to gather diverse insights. Understand the customer's current state and pain points thoroughly. Define future goals to align solutions with customer needs. Pay attention to current attitudes to AI and cultural factors. Start discovery with a focus on reporting and analytics. Stakeholder management is key to successful discovery. Pre- and post-sales discovery findings should be tied in to each other. Keywords customer engagement, discovery process, sales strategy, customer experience, stakeholder management, AI in CX, contact center metrics, reporting, customer pain points, technology in sales

In this episode, Angus and Pete talk to CX Insider Dan, a seasoned expert in contact centres and customer experience operations management. They discuss the evolution of customer service, especially in the post-COVID landscape. They explore the challenges faced by customer service operations, the impact of data transparency, the importance of agent wellness and the role of leadership in fostering a supportive work environment. Dan shares valuable insights on how businesses can improve their customer service strategies by understanding employee needs to drive performance. You can see more about Dan, read his articles and contact him here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/piperdaniel/   Takeaways The COVID-19 pandemic has drastically changed customer service expectations. It’s made customers less demanding, and many businesses are still hiding in the customer service fog of the pandemic. Data transparency within businesses is essential for making challenges visible and gaining stakeholder support. Agent wellness is crucial for maintaining effective customer service operations. Performance in customer service is driven by behaviour, not data. Technology should enhance human interaction, not replace it. Leadership must be involved in fostering a supportive work environment. Don’t even think about throwing technology at a problem before you have optimised your processes and your people. Keywords customer engagement, CX, technology, analysts, customer experience, AI, market trends, industry insights, innovation, business strategy

In this episode, Angus and Pete focus on the critical role of demos in the buying process. They discuss various types of demos, their appropriate applications, and the importance of tailoring presentations to the audience. The conversation emphasizes the need for effective communication, storytelling, and understanding the buyer's journey to enhance customer experience and drive sales success. Takeaways Demos are tools, not destinations. Demos are valid at all stages of the buying process. Know which type of demo to use at the right time. Understand your audience and tailor your message accordingly. Make demos interactive and relatable. Use real-world examples and storytelling to engage buyers. Focus on pain points during sales demos. Prepare thoroughly before conducting a demo. Every feature should tie back to a business pain. Demos can drive adoption and optimization post-sale. It’s a demo not a training course! Keywords customer engagement, sales demos, technical demos, customer experience, demo types, sales process, buyer journey, training, stakeholder management, storytelling

In the first of the CX Insider episodes, Angus & Pete explore the role of analysts in the CX space together with an insider guest, Steve. He shares his insights from years of experience as an analyst, discusses the challenges faced by them and how they operate. Takeaways The analyst community is very aware of the need to be seen to be open, honest and impartial. The magic quadrant and similar reports are a rear-view mirror of the market. Analyst commentary and outputs are evolving to keep up with the pace of CX technology development. Some analysts are focussed on helping buyers spend their money wisely, but not all. There is a difference between analysts who can influence buyer decisions and those who amplify vendor messages. The value to vendors of holding analyst events in exotic locations is questionable and may even be counterproductive. Integrating technology is now less important that aligning businesses, departments and personal agendas to reap the benefits of it. The UK is a nation of CX investors and innovators and should embrace it. Angus & Pete pretty much got it right in Episode 1. Keywords customer engagement, CX, technology, analysts, customer experience, AI, market trends, industry insights, innovation, business strategy

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the importance of understanding stakeholders when presenting business cases. The conversation also highlights strategies for crafting compelling proposals and navigating the complexities of boardroom dynamics, emphasizing the need for preparation and awareness of potential objections. Takeaways Understanding stakeholders is crucial for successful sales. Sales champions may lack experience in presenting business cases. A compelling business case should clearly state the problem. Navigating boardroom dynamics requires knowledge of key players. Business cases presentations to the board must address the cost of inaction. Quick wins can help persuade decision-makers. Prediction of likely objections and how to handle them is important preparation. Researching company ownership can reveal hidden decision-makers. Effective champions can improve sales outcomes. Keywords customer engagement, AI, sales, business case, boardroom dynamics, stakeholder management, customer service, ethics, accent modification, sales challenges

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the timing of customer feedback, and the evolving metrics in customer experience. They explore how AI is transforming customer satisfaction measurement and the significance of sentiment analysis. The conversation also highlights the risks associated with AI and the necessity of human oversight in customer service interactions. Takeaways Traditional metrics like average handle time may not reflect true customer satisfaction. AI can enhance real-time customer experience analysis. Sentiment analysis is becoming a vital metric in understanding customer emotions. Real-time feedback allows for immediate adjustments in service. AI may be able to predict customer behaviour and churn rates. Human oversight is essential in AI-driven customer service. Understanding the risks of AI is crucial for effective implementation. Customer experience should focus on ease and personalization. Keywords customer engagement, customer experience, AI in customer service, customer feedback, metrics, sentiment analysis, customer satisfaction, real-time analysis, retrospective analysis, risks of AI

In this episode, Angus and Pete delve into the different stages of activity required when building a new CX or Customer Engagement practice. The discussion focuses on the activities in the early stages of the process. They examine the importance of understanding the reseller-vendor relationship, and the various commercial models that can be employed. The conversation also covers billing expectations, onboarding processes, and how you should build your market offering so that you can sell successfully. Takeaways Building a go-to-market capability requires a structured approach. Understanding vendor relationships is crucial for successful engagement. Commercial models can vary and impact profitability and operational models. Legal and billing processes should be prioritized early in the process. Successful onboarding is essential for enabling sales teams effectively. Sales enablement involves educating and motivating the sales force. Deployment is not just about launching a product but also about driving adoption. A two-way relationship with your vendor of choice is key to success in the cloud service model. Keywords customer engagement, go-to-market strategy, vendor relationships, commercial models, pricing strategies, billing, onboarding, sales enablement, deployment, customer experience