The Application Security Podcast

Sarah Jane Madden joins us to discuss the evolving role of AI in software development. We reflect on the changes and challenges posed by AI, including the potential for over-reliance and the misconception that traditional software engineering practices like the SDLC are obsolete. The conversation explores the nuances of AI-generated code, emphasizing the importance of maintaining foundational engineering skills and a critical understanding of the tools used. Madden shares insights from her ke...

Dag Flachet joins us to discuss the concept of Kaizen and its application in improving application security. Dag shares his journey into the world of security, emphasizing the importance of iterative, small-step improvements. The conversation delves into how organizations can effectively implement maturity models to enhance their security programs, the limitations of compliance-focused frameworks like ISO 27,000 and SOC 2, and the practical application of Kaizen principles. They also explore ...

Andra Lezza and Javan Rasokat discuss the complexities of securing AI and LLM applications. With years of experience in Application Security (AppSec), Andra and Javan share their journey and lessons from their DEF CON talk on building and defending LLMs. They explore critical vulnerabilities, prompt injection, hallucinations, and the importance of data security. This discussion sheds light on the evolving landscape of AI and LLM security, offering practical advice for developers and security ...

Former CISO Jim Routh discusses his perspective on retirement and career fulfillment in cybersecurity. Rather than viewing retirement as simply stopping work, Routh describes his three-filter approach: working only with people he respects and admires, doing only work he finds fulfilling, and controlling when he works. He shares valuable lessons learned about which post-retirement opportunities truly bring satisfaction and explains why he avoids certain roles. Routh emphasizes the importance o...

Henrik Plate joins us to discuss the OWASP Top 10 Open Source Risks, a guide highlighting critical security and operational challenges in using open source dependencies. The list includes risks like known vulnerabilities, compromised legitimate packages, name confusion attacks, and unmaintained software, providing developers and organizations a framework to assess and mitigate potential threats. Henrik offers insights on how developers and AppSec professionals can implement the guidelines. Ou...

Security expert Tanya Janca discusses her new book "Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding" and shares insights on making security accessible to developers. In this engaging conversation, she explores how security professionals can better connect with developers through threat modeling, maintaining empathy, and creating inclusive learning environments. Tanya emphasizes the importance of system maintenance after deployment and shares practical advice on input validation, while highlighting how secu...

Mehran Koushkebaghi, a seasoned engineering expert, delves into the intricacies of systemic security. He draws parallels between civil engineering and IT systems, and explains the importance of holistic thinking in security design. Discover the difference between semantic and syntactic vulnerabilities and understand how anti-requirements play a critical role in system resilience. This episode offers fresh perspectives on application security. Books recommended by Mehran: Critical System Think...

Kalyani Pawar shares critical strategies for integrating security early and effectively in AppSec for startups. She recommends that startups begin focusing on AppSec around the 30-employee mark, with an ideal ratio of one AppSec professional per 10 engineers as the company grows. Pawar emphasizes the importance of building a security culture through "culture as code" - implementing automated guardrails and checkpoints that make security an integral part of the development process. She advises...

Milan Williams discusses the importance of application security metrics and how to make them both meaningful and actionable. She explains that metrics are crucial for tracking progress in what can often feel like an overwhelming security landscape, and they're valuable for career advancement and securing resources. We discuss metrics categories and several specific metrics that are good to track. Milan shares important principles on the importance of making metrics actionable through st...

Mo Sadek shares his unique journey of building an Application Security program from scratch at Roblox. Mo discusses his unconventional path, including temporarily joining the infrastructure team to truly understand engineering challenges. He emphasizes that security isn't about mandating rules, but about making processes easier and more secure by default. Mo shares his insights on how to build effective cross-team security relationships and approaches for gaining leadership buy-in. Mo'...

Brett Crawley discusses the Elevation of Privilege (EoP) card game, a powerful tool for threat modeling in software development. The discussion explores recent extensions to the game including privacy-focused suits and TRIM (Transfer, Retention/Removal, Inference, Minimization) categories. Crawley emphasizes that threat modeling shouldn't end with the game but should be an ongoing process throughout an application's lifecycle, ideally starting before implementation. He also shares insights fr...

Matin Mavaddat discusses his perspective on security as a systemic concern, developed from his background in requirements engineering and systems architecture. He introduces the concept of "anti-requirements" - defining what a system should not do - and distinguishes between "syntactic security" (addressing technical vulnerabilities that are always incorrect) and "semantic security" (context-dependent security emerging from system interactions). Mavaddat shares his perspective that security i...

Kayra Otaner joins the podcast today to discuss DevSecOps and answer the question, is it dead? Kayra is the Director of DevSecOps at Roche and is highly involved in the DevSecOps community. Kayra states that DevSecOps in its traditional form is “dead” and that each organization should approach its needs based on their size. Otaner introduces the concept of "security as code" and "policy as code" as more effective approaches, where security functions are codified rather than relying on traditi...

François Proulx shares his discovery of security vulnerabilities in build pipelines. Francois has found that attackers can exploit this often overlooked side of the software supply chain. To help address this, his team developed an open source scanner called Poutine that can identify vulnerable build pipelines at scale and provide remediation guidance. Francois has over 10 years of experience in building application security programs, he’s also the founder of the NorthSec conference in Montre...

Steve Wilson, the author of 'The Developer's Playbook for Large Language Model Security’ is back to dive into topics from his book like AI hallucinations, trust, and the future of AI. Steve has been at the forefront of the explosion of activity at the intersection of AppSec, LLM, and AI. We discuss the biggest fears surrounding LLMs and AI, and explore advanced concepts like Retrieval Augmented Generation and prompt injection. Links: The Developer’s Playbook for Large Language Model Sec...