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Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Author: Kurt Nelson, PhD and Tim Houlihan

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Improve your work and life through science! Behavioral Grooves is a discussion of the positive application of behavioral science to work and life. It's the WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO podcast. Kurt Nelson, Ph.D., and Tim Houlihan interview leading researchers, academics, practitioners, and accidental behavioral scientists. Our conversations are lively, spontaneous, full of laughs, and insights into the science behind why we do what we do. We conclude each podcast with a grooving session, recorded after the interview, where we explore the science and reflect on the key takeaways from the interview and the topics we discussed.
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Tim Kachuriak is the founder and Chief Innovation and Optimization Officer for NextAfter (https://www.nextafter.com/), a fundraising research lab and consulting firm that works with businesses, nonprofits, and NGOs to help them grow their resource capacity. By his own admission, Tim is not a behavioral scientist, but what we love about Tim’s work is that he is using knowledge and research from the world of behavioral science and applying it to improve the efficiency of gift giving for nonprofit organizations. And not only does he use behavioral science techniques, he tests the theories in the nonprofit sector and generously publishes the findings on the NextAfter website (https://www.nextafter.com/research/).  In our conversation with Tim, he underscores the need for thinking about value proposition, a term widely used in the digital marketing world, but rarely thought of in terms of nonprofit organizations. He argues that potential donors are constantly weighing up the perceived value vs. the perceived cost of donating their money. Tim also brings up the idea of reducing friction for donors: how can the giving experience be improved to make donating money a more seamless transaction. And we couldn’t help but see the parallels with the infamous new behavioral science book NOISE coming out later this month (Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment (https://amzn.to/3heyr5r) by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021). There are many reasons why we donate to nonprofits; emotional reward, belonging, anger, guilt (or as Tim positively reframes it - gratitude!). Understanding these motivations is a huge part of Tim’s work and why, as behavioral scientists, we are fascinated to understand the research he has conducted around donations.  Edit Hey groovers, just wanted to let you know that somehow, at 29:28 mins of the podcast we ended up cutting Tim’s response to the Susan G Komen question and can’t find it on the cutting room floor…sorry about that. What he answered was that it is important to look at the scale that these organizations work at and that sometimes spending 50% on marketing to raise a $100 million is more effective and can drive a larger change than only spending 10% on marketing, but only raising $10 million.  We then went in and asked about how the pandemic has impacted giving.* We hope you enjoy our discussion with Tim Kachuriak and if you are a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, perhaps you feel motivated to donate to our work by becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon Member (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves). © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Topics (0:06) Introduction to our guest, Tim Kachuriak (3:50) Speed Round Questions (5:57) Why do People Give? (9:41) The Principle of Reciprocity (12:10) Effective Messaging and Value Proposition  (22:25) Reducing Friction (34:48) Music (40:27) Grooving Session (58:44) Bonus Track Links NextAfter (https://www.nextafter.com/) NextAfter Research To Grow Generosity (https://www.nextafter.com/research/) Institute for Sustainable Philanthropy (https://www.philanthropy-institute.org.uk/)  Roger Dooley: Friction and Engagement (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/roger-dooley-friction-and-engagement/) Susan G. Komen (https://www.komen.org/) Dan Pallotta, TED - The Way We Think About Charity Is Dead Wrong (https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong?language=en)  John Hopkins University, Coronavirus Resource Centre (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/)  Rotary Club (https://www.rotary.org/)  Salvation Army (https://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/)  Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment (https://amzn.to/3heyr5r) by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021  Phish, Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City on 10.30.2010 (https://phish.net/setlists/phish-october-30-2010-boardwalk-hall-atlantic-city-nj-usa.html)  Behavioral Grooves Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves) Musical Links Billy Joel “Scenes from An Italian Restaurant” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx8IWIvKg0)  Phish “Whole lotta love” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XcIOGWUhY)  Other Episodes We Talk About Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/)  Linda Thunstrom: Are Thoughts and Prayers Empty Gestures to Suffering Disaster Victims? (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linda-thunstrom-are-thoughts-and-prayers-empty-gestures-to-suffering-disaster-victims/)
Our guest, Jon Levy, is arguably one of the most influential behavioral scientists in the world. Over 10 years ago, Jon founded The Influencers Dinner, a secret dining experience for industry leaders ranging from Olympians, Nobel laureates, executives, to musicians. Over the course of the last decade, these dinners have developed into a wide community of influential people.  Our opening speed round with Jon did not disappoint. We learn his unique perspective on which Star Trek Captains was the best, and the surprising answer to who his dream guest was at one of his dinners.  In our discussion with Jon, he shares the secrets behind his influential approach: what motivated him to start this novel idea, how he developed it and the key steps behind the ongoing success of the community that he has curated.  Jon’s second book, “You’re Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence” https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA is released on May 11, 2021. Which follows his hugely successful first book: “The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure” https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m. We had the privilege of previewing his latest book for this interview and we were blown away by Jon’s unique approach to cultivating human connections through trust and community.  Of course, we discuss what music Jon has been listening to at home and we are surprised to learn what has recently sparked his musical interest. Jon has found that through his Influence Dinners, he has hosted a lot of his childhood pop idols, which he still enjoys listening to. Thanks for listening and thank you for taking a minute to join the others who have already left us a review.  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Jon Levy's Books You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m   Links Jon Levy https://www.jonlevytlb.com/  Peter Cullen (voice of Optimus Prime) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cullen  James T. Kirk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk  Jean-Luc Picard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard  Neil deGrasse Tyson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson  Oprah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey  Beyonce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9  Sir Richard Branson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson  Stephen Hawking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking  Disney https://www.disney.com/  Mark Zuckerberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg  Nicholas Christakis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis  James H. Fowler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fowler  The Spread of Obesity in a Large Social Network over 32 Years  Christakis and Fowler (2007) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsa066082  Nike Run Club https://www.nike.com/gb/nrc-app  Bill Nye the Science Guy https://billnye.com/  Parkour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour  The Daily Show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Show  The New York Times: Want to Meet Influential New Yorkers? Invite Them to Dinner https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/fashion/want-to-meet-influential-new-yorkers-invite-them-to-dinner.html  SNVTA - Ventral tegmental area of the brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventral_tegmental_area  Davos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davos  Bill Gates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates  Angela Merkel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel  TED https://www.ted.com/  My Octopus Teacher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Octopus_Teacher  United States Navy SEAL selection and training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training  The IKEA Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%20is%20a,of%20furniture%20that%20require%20assembly Common Biases & Heuristics https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing  Brené Brown https://brenebrown.com/about/   Adam Grant https://www.adamgrant.net/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links  Bridgerton Soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rowHZd7-F1U&ab_channel=LoopedSongs  Vitamin String Quartet “Thank u, next” (Ariana Grande) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmljfYBkGVg  John Williams “The Imperial March from The Empire Strikes Back” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7HF4JG1pOg&list=PL2yW2adfehiV0-wSa784KIT1ZJ5_YEVjd&index=2&ab_channel=JohnWilliamsVEVO  Tribe Called Quest “Electric Relaxation“ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRnvjCkTsw&ab_channel=TribeCalledQuestVEVO  Biggie Smalls (The Notorious B.I.G.) “Big Poppa” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phaJXp_zMYM  Maroon Five “Sugar” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09R8_2nJtjg&ab_channel=Maroon5VEVO  98 Degrees “I Do (Cherish You)” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09R8_2nJtjg&ab_channel=Maroon5VEVO  Cowboy Junkies “Sweet Jane” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9nN3G2CSg&t=173s  The Tragically Hip “Ahead by a Century” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE2joQsWXJg  Topics (4:46) Speed Round Questions (9:03) Power vs Influence (13:00) Why do we want influence? (20:21) Jon discusses his new book (25:41) Jon became influential (32:11) How to create a community (37:03) How trust is made and how to trigger it (41:00) Music (1:13:11) Bonus Track and Groove Idea Other Episodes You’ll Enjoy Dessa: The Attention Shepherd On The Curious Act Of Being Deeply Human (Episode 208) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/  Mapping the Influence of Corporate Cultures – Silke Brittain (Episode 12) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mapping-the-influence-of-corporate-cultures-silke-brittain/ Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin (Episode 50) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/
In this episode we are thrilled to be discussing our two favorite topics: human behavior and music. We learn that music, more than any other activity, can help lift our mood, during COVID. Our guests Pablo Ripollés PhD and Ernest Mas Herrero have spent years studying how the brain responds to rewards, learning and memory. Early in the pandemic, they decided to conduct research on a long list of activities that people were doing at home to manage their stress and increase the pleasure in their lives. While a number of the activities were found to help with mental health, the research overwhelmingly showed that engaging with music was the best way to lift your mood. We have a really engaging conversation with Pablo and Ernest about their research findings on wellbeing and music. They believe that because listening to music is a passive activity and is so accessible, or “fun and free” as they call it, everyone can experience pleasure from it. And it’s not just listening to music; dancing, singing or playing music are all beneficial.  We also learn that the best type of music to engage with is whatever music you really enjoy: “It will be beneficial as long as it is pleasurable.” The questionnaire Pablo and Ernest discuss in the podcast is the Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsite/bmrq.php. It will take you only a few minutes to find out about your individual sensitivity to musical reward. And you can also read Pablo and Ernest’s full research article: “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/.  Listen in to find out more from Pablo and Ernest about how music can benefit your mental wellbeing. And If you’d like to support the work we do at Behavioral Grooves bringing you interesting research insights, please consider becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Topics (0:06) Introduction (5:20) Speed Round Questions (8:44) Research Insights with Pablo and Ernest (36:50) Grooving Session (50:26) Bonus Track Musical Links  Dropkick Murphys https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcIRZxNH7xcEt1fu4pfqFRg  Rumba https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrsK48Bp6T8  Catalan music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJnF95TWN8  Zoo https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBh82sG2OKv1J6Ij43mdFiw  Depeche Mode https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM-CWGUijAC-8idv6k6Fygw  Aretha Franklin “Think” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqYnevHibaI  Links “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” Herrero et al (2020): https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/  “Neural correlates of specific musical anhedonia” Martínez-Molina et al (2016): https://www.pnas.org/content/113/46/E7337 Pablo Ripollés: https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/pablo-ripolles.html  Ernest Mas Herrero: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3607-8489  Jamón ibérico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_ib%C3%A9rico  Lionel Messi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi  Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan  Roger Federer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer  “Goal Gradient Theory” Kivetz et al (2006): https://home.uchicago.edu/ourminsky/Goal-Gradient_Illusionary_Goal_Progress.pdf  Robert Zatorre, PhD https://www.mcgill.ca/neuro/robert-zatorre-phd Neomi Singer, PhD https://neuroscience-innovation.org/music-to-my-brain-neomi-singer  Laura Ferreri, University of Lyon https://emc.univ-lyon2.fr/laura-ferreri-785895.kjsp  Michael McPhee, NYU https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/michael-mcphee   Hedonia and anhedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia  Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsite/bmrq.php  Spotify https://www.spotify.com/us/  The Ikea Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%20is%20a,of%20furniture%20that%20require%20assembly The Singing Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Revolution  Music of the Civil Rights Movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_songs Baroque Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApSoNBu2wt8  Agatha Christie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie  Other Podcast Episodes Dessa: The Attention Shepherd on the Curious Act of Being Deeply Human” https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/  The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/  Chris Matyszczyk: Listening to Music While You Work  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/chris-matyszczyk-listening-to-music-while-you-work/ Covid-19 Crisis: Emotional Impact of WFH with Liz Fosslien https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-crisis-emotional-impact-of-wfh-with-liz-fosslien/  Jonah Berger episode: “The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger” https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/ 
Our guest this week, Sandra Matz PhD exposes the truth behind our online presence. In our conversation, Sandra reveals that with simple analytics, the digital footprints we leave behind online (our Facebook Likes, our credit card transactions, our Google Map searches) add up to paint a very revealing picture of our personality and state of mind. Sandra Matz PhD is an associate professor at Columbia Business School. She takes a Big Data approach to studying human behaviour. Her methodologies use psychology, computer science and data collection to explore the relationships between people’s psychological characteristics and their digital footprints.  Sandra’s work has been published in top-tier journals such as Psychological Science and the American Psychologist, and has attracted worldwide media attention from outlets like the Independent, the BBC, CNBC, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and the World Economic Forum. Our discussion delves into Sandra’s experience around social media profiles, digital ethics, data privacy and our understanding of informed consent. As always we find out about our guest’s musical taste but this week we even find out what our musical preferences can reveal about our personality and social identities.  We hope you enjoy our discussion with Sandra Matz PhD, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.   Topics 3:04 Welcome to Sandra Matz PhD and speed round questions 4:52 Discussion about Sandra Matz’s Research 52:32 Grooving Session 1:10:37 Bonus Track with Kurt   Links Sandra Matz https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/sm4409  Cambridge Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica Cass Sunstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein  GDPR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation  Kate Crawford, NYU https://ainowinstitute.org/about.html  Helen Nissenbaum, Cornell https://nissenbaum.tech.cornell.edu/  Tory Higgins, Shared Reality: What Makes Us Strong and Tears Us Apart https://amzn.to/3aywWdW  SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/  Brene Brown https://brenebrown.com/  Steve Bannon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon  Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Behavioral Grooves @behavioralgroov https://twitter.com/behavioralgroov  Kurt @motivationguru https://twitter.com/motivationguru  Tim @THoulihan https://twitter.com/THoulihan  Mary @BeSciMary https://twitter.com/BeSciMary   Musical Links Taylor Swift https://www.youtube.com/user/taylorswift  Justin Bieber https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwFjwMjI0y7PDBVEO9-bkQ  Bob Dylan https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnRI0ay61tY-fKYzzB3fCnw  Britney Spears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-u5WLJ9Yk4  Coldplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDPM_n1atn2ijUwHd0NNRQw  ACDC https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0JSO6d5ysH2Mmqz5I9rIw  Lady Gaga https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNL1ZadSjHpjm4q9j2sVtOA   
Research is showing that there are four broad groups of people who are the most vaccine hesitant: African Americans Latinos Women between the ages of 20 and 36 Rural Americans and Republicans Many of us have a family or friend who feels hesitant about the vaccination. In this episode, Kurt and Tim address how you can have a positive conversation with them, using proven behavioral science techniques.  Compassionate curiosity Listen with compassion Understanding motivations Be genuine with curiosity Leverage the right messenger Framing what you’re going to share Think about their perspective Find an authority figure who they respect Trumpcine The Message Change the social norm Being able to take our masks off “Take a shot, take off your mask” Personalise the message Links Morgan Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Freeman  Kwame Christian https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/  Steve Martin & Joe Marks: BG episode https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/  Robb Willer, Stanford University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Willer  Donald Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump  Ivanka Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump  Ted Cruz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz  Trumpcine https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/04/12/trump-calls-covid-19-vaccine-trumpcine-mocks-fauci-again/  Frank Luntz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz  Robert Cialdini https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/  The Petrified Forrest https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-shaping-us/201909/the-petrified-wood-principle  Katy Milkman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-phd-using-behavior-change-for-good/  Surfacing norms to increase vaccine acceptance https://psyarxiv.com/srv6t/ Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    © 2021 Behavioral Grooves
Dr. Melanie Green is a professor at the University of Buffalo. She joined us on the podcast to explain how the power of a compelling narrative, including the effects of fictional stories, can be used to change beliefs and attitudes. Her theory of "transportation into a narrative world" focuses on how immersive storytelling is a mechanism of narrative influence. It was an in-depth conversation that explored concepts around how stories move us, the power of narrative to affect both cognitive and emotional feelings, and how restorative narratives can be used to help heal communities after disasters. We touch on the psychological response of reactance, the appeal of conspiracy theory stories and the elements needed to create a compelling story.  We also introduce - in a slightly more proper fashion - our production and research assistant, Mary Kaliff. We are excited to introduce Mary to our listeners and hope you will welcome her with a happy greeting on social media! Finally, no episode of Behavioral Grooves would be complete without understanding our guest’s musical tastes. Melanie’s upbringing in Gainesville, Florida influenced her lifelong love of music, in particular the hometown hero,  Tom Petty. She’s also a fan of James Taylor, which delighted Tim. More recently, Melanie’s house is often filled with the sound of the Hamilton soundtrack, thanks to her children’s love of the musical, which delighted Kurt. So, it was wins all around.  We hope you enjoy our conversation with Melanie and if you like it, please jump down to the bottom of your listening app and share a quick rating or a short review with us. It goes a long way in helping others decide if they should listen to Behavioral Grooves.  Topics 0:07 Introduction  1:00 Hello from Mary Kaliff 3:46 Welcome and Speed Round with Melanie Green 7:44 Reactance and empathy 16:25 What makes a good story? 22:26 Storytelling in different mediums 27:12 Parasocial Interaction 33:10 Storytelling for social good 38:50 Conspiracy Theories 43:07 Melanie’s music and playlist 47:30 Grooving Session Quotes  (14:13) If you do have a story that's not representative, the danger of it kind of having an undue influence on people's thinking and decision making is, I think, a real one, especially with something consequential, like these medical decisions.  (18:21) the way that stories can inform us and change our minds, is through this process of being immersed in them. (31:17) And so a story can be a really nice kind of way of summarizing and illustrating the guiding principles maybe that people want the organization to follow (33:37) restorative narratives tell those stories, you know, how people move from something bad to kind of come back to a better place. Social Media Tim @THoulihan Kurt @motivationguru Mary @BeSciMary Other Content To listen to more podcasts about narratives and messages why not delve into these episodes: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/ https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-sweeney-everything-is-a-story/  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Links Melanie Green:  https://www.buffalo.edu/cas/communication/faculty/green.html  The Game of Thrones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones  Story telling Mirrors in the Brain: https://www.michaelharvey.org/new-blog/2019/12/29/storytelling-mirrors-in-the-brain  Victoria Shaffer, PhD: https://psychology.missouri.edu/people/shaffer  The Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible  The Koran:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran  The Bhagavad Ghita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita  Pamela Rutledge: https://www.pamelarutledge.com/  Guy Schoenecker: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/12/07/life-story-guy-schoenecker/  BI WORLDWIDE: https://www.biworldwide.com/careers/  Common Biases & Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing   Jon Levy: https://www.jonlevytlb.com/  Mirror Neurons: Why good stories provoke empathy and connection (Kyle Pearce) https://www.diygenius.com/mirror-neurons/  Musical Links Bruce Springsteen “Fire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PoIrcyd34  “Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M  James Taylor “Never Die Young”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGrD4hxoBI  Traveling Wilburys “End of the Line”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVjToYOjbM  Tom Petty “Don’t Fade on Me”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKUBlwVgVYc 
Leidy Klotz is the Copenhaver Associate Professor of Architecture, Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of Virginia. His research fills in underexplored overlaps between engineering and behavioral science, in pursuit of more sustainable environmental systems. He has published over 70 peer-reviewed articles in venues that include top academic journals in built environment engineering, engineering education, and design, as well as imprints of both Science and Nature. We explored the rarity of subtraction from our lives and the fact that we tend to add things much more than we remove things. Granted, we’ve been builders of things since the dawn of civilization, but when is enough, enough? Leidy suggested we begin any initiative by subtracting before we start adding.   We traced the concept from Lao Tzu through DaVinci through Kurt Lewin and right up into today’s literature with Marie Kondo and Tim Ferriss. But Leidy’s thoughts are truly fresh because he is adding to this historical narrative with scientific data. He offered us fresh ways to think about this uphill battle with our natural desires.  We also discussed Leidy’s view of the Planetary Tipping Point: where our very fixed-resource planet gets maxed out by humans with an unlimited desire for more. And we were pleased to talk about Kurt Lewin and his force-field analysis and, as you might expect, we enthusiastically discussed Bruce Springsteen as a prolific and gifted writer.  We hope you enjoy our discussion with Leidy Klotz, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.    Links Leidy Klotz, PhD: https://engineering.virginia.edu/faculty/leidy-klotz Lego https://www.lego.com/en-us  Harry Potter Lego Set - Hogwarts https://www.lego.com/en-us/search?q=harry%20potter%20hogwarts  Wildlife Bingo https://www.nature-watch.com/wildlife-bingo-game-p-176.html  Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan  Bruce Springsteen https://brucespringsteen.net/  Mayan City of Coba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coba  Marie Kondo https://konmari.com/  Tim Ferris https://tim.blog/  Da Vinci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci  Lao Tzu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi  Bowerbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowerbird  Allison Zelkowitz https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-zelkowitz-197431a/?originalSubdomain=lb  Chaning Jang https://www.busaracenter.org/staff-bios/chaning-8f39x  Kurt Lewin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin  Kate Orff, Lexington Waterway Project https://www.scapestudio.com/people/kate-orff/  Dan Ariely “Predictably Irrational” https://danariely.com/books/predictably-irrational/  Roger Dooley “Friction” https://www.rogerdooley.com/books/friction/    Musical Links Bruce Springsteen “Darkness On The Edge Of Town” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg0ekQBmzKs  Bruce Springsteen “Born In The USA”  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhWR4d3FJQ  Bruce Springsteen “Western Stars” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IXzAAKrsFE  Bruce Springsteen “Letter to You” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQyLEz0qy-g    Topics 3:20 Leidy’s 6-year-old son answers a speed round question 4:34 Speed round with Leidy 7:14 Leidy’s book - Subtraction 13:00 “More-ality” 24:00 Planetary tipping points 26:15 Kurt Lewin force field theory 29:28 Kate Orff Lexington Waterways Project 33:40 Subtraction checklist 37:57 Springsteen 45:24 Grooving   Interview Quotes (8:10) we're doing these mental searches for solutions, and our mind goes to additive solutions before it goes to subtractive ones.  (12:01) as people are trying to change things from how they are to how they want them to be, we systematically think of adding first and then, only subsequently or with effort or with reminders, think of subtraction (35:15) so often we kind of come to a problem and don't actually spend time defining what the what the problem is, right (9:51)  My favorite is Lao Tzu, even farther back talking about, to gain wisdom, you have to subtract something every day.
Rohit Bhargava is on a mission to help everyone in the world become a non-obvious thinker. In this episode, he talks with us about how intentionality is the key to seeing the non-obvious and how he uses The Haystack Method to gather insights from the world. He also shared how he has become a speed-understander and the benefits that go with it. In 2011, Rohit embarked on the annual task of documenting the digital trends of the year, which after a decade, culminated in his book on megatrends in 2021 #1 Wall Street Journal bestselling author of seven books including “Non-Obvious Megatrends: How to See What Others Miss and Predict the Future” https://amzn.to/3mpkJgn. Rohit discusses with us how he analyses trends, not just on the superficial level, but digging deeper into the “why” question. Our conversation with Rohit is full of compelling insights about the human condition, unique analysis of the world around us, and actionable tips on how to train yourself to observe with intention. You’ll also get a quick education in contemporary Latin music and some head-scratching about why He-Man ever became a superhero in the first place. Two of Rohit’s books are currently being republished into new editions;  The Non-Obvious Guide to Virtual Meetings and Remote Work (Non-Obvious Guides) https://amzn.to/2OoxdbB    The Non-Obvious Guide to Marketing & Branding (Without a Big Budget) (Non-Obvious Guides) https://amzn.to/3moIllg   If you’re a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, please consider supporting us through Patreon. Thank you! https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Links Rohit Bhargava: https://www.rohitbhargava.com/  Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov   Ali Pittampalli “Persuadable”: https://www.alpitt.com/  Henry Coutinho-Mason “The Future Normal”: https://henrycoutinho-mason.com/  Maysoon Zayid: https://maysoon.com/  Telemundo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemundo  Dan Simons Invisible Gorilla video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY  Tom Cruise “Cocktail”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YbjzztYbUo  He-Man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He-Man  Telemachus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemachus  Meave Leakey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meave_Leakey  Dan Hill - Episode 151: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dan-hill-phd-on-the-facial-coding-of-trump-hendrix-prince-gretzky-and-the-beatles/  Hedgefox: https://www.russellsage.org/sites/default/files/Vohs_intro_0.pdf  Books The Non-Obvious Guide to Virtual Meetings and Remote Work (Non-Obvious Guides): https://amzn.to/2OoxdbB   The Non-Obvious Guide to Marketing & Branding (Without a Big Budget) (Non-Obvious Guides): https://amzn.to/3moIllg  Non Obvious Megatrends: How to See What Others Miss and Predict the Future (Non-Obvious Trends Series): https://amzn.to/3mpkJgn   Musical Links Neil Peart (Rush): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Peart  Fanny Lu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1grimas_C%C3%A1lidas  Maná “Rayando del Sol”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3O_Fbfjjs  Carlos Vives “Cumbiana”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baUk9YcCxBQ  Carlos Vives & Shakira “”La Bibcicleta”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UV0QGLmYys  Juaness “Es Por Ti | One World: Together” At Home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pgvjxtHBOg Coffitivity: https://soundcloud.com/coffitivity  Topics 6:37 Trends vs Fads 11:10 Haystack Method 13:18 Trends 19:15 Brave Enough to Change Your Mind 28:00 Non Obvious Brand 30:28 Spare Time 35:30 Rohit’s Inspiration 40:45 The Yellow Balloon Light Bulb 45:04 Naming 47:14 He-Man Quotes (6:37) ...trend is something that implicates behavior, which is very topical for us. And whereas a fad is just usually a thing or a platform, but doesn't always correlate to behavior. (7:55) ...a speed understander is someone who thinks about what to pay attention to as an end is intentional about what they choose not to pay attention to. (10:55) ...if you spend enough time gathering interesting, fascinating stories, instead of obsessing about why they're interesting or fascinating in the moment, then later on, you can start to spot the patterns that you would never have otherwise seen. (16:37) ...being observant is not a skill you're born with, or not born with. Being observant is a choice. (19:45)...being persuadable requires You to rethink those things, those assumptions, those points of view that you have. And I think the only way that anyone can do that is by not letting themselves be defined by the stands that they have taken. Because the more you see a stand that you've taken, or a belief or something that you've put out in the world as core to your identity, the less likely you are to change. (20:07) ...the more you see a stand that you've taken, or a belief or something that you've put out in the world as core to your identity, the less likely you are to change  
Tim Ash is a very interesting guy. He is both an authority on evolutionary psychology and digital marketing, which puts him in pretty rarified air. He is the bestselling author of Unleash Your Primal Brain and Landing Page Optimization (with over 50,000 copies sold worldwide and translated into six languages). He has been identified by Forbes as a Top-10 Online Marketing Expert, and by Entrepreneur Magazine as an Online Marketing Influencer To Watch. Our conversation with Tim focused on his most recent book, Unleash Your Primal Brain, and addressed a question very central to behavioral science today: What is rational? This led to addressing how biases and heuristics are grounded in important evolutionary foundations. Tim likens the way we talk about biases today as glitches in the matrix when we should be acknowledging them for what they are: important evolutionary tools to help us survive our environments and thrive in our tribes. We also discussed the importance of culture and its central focus on the way humans learn to be human. A paradox we discussed is that culture is dependent on tribe members passing down the cultural (social) norms to the next generation without interruption, and yet cross-tribal collaboration is what has given us an evolutionary edge. Tim notes, that what we need to do today is to “stretch beyond our current tribes needs to go and make the effort to contact other people that are very different from us.” And the consequences of not doing that, according to Tim, “ …are going to be the ones that are going to bring down the larger society.” Fascinating stuff. We hope you’ll find this conversation with this insightful researcher and speaker as exciting as we did. And if you do like it, please give us a quick 5-star rating or a two-sentence review. And thank you for listening to Behavioral Grooves. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Tim Ash: https://timash.com/ “Primal Brain”: https://timash.com/books-and-media-mentions/ Latin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin Robert Sapolsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky Aristotle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle Hopper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_(particulate_collection_container) Carl Sagan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan Neil deGrasse Tyson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson Robert Cialdini: https://www.influenceatwork.com/ Robert Heinlein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein Antonio Damasio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Damasio Carlos Castaneda “Journey to Ixtlan”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_Ixtlan “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance Sabre fencing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_(fencing) Tai Chi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi Kung Fu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_martial_arts Don Miguel Ruiz “The Four Agreements”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Agreements Bhagavad Gita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita Coleman’s Boat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGaz0xKG060   Musical Links Pat Metheny Group “Last Train Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXJTv_U-PM Chet Baker “Almost Blue”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4IridL_2XU Elvis Costello “Almost Blue”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8f1Sda8_4 Miles Davis “So What”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c Salsa “Al Monte”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2JnyCuAQMg
Michael F. Schein is a hype specialist and the author of The Hype Handbook: 12 Indispensable Secrets from the World’s Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders, Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers. He is also the founder and president of MicroFame Media, a marketing agency that specializes in making idea-based companies famous in their industries.  We caught up with Michael recently to talk about his book about how hype can be a very good thing. In and of itself, hype can be a powerful tool of promotion and its bad reputation may be well deserved, but it’s not carved in stone. Hype has a place in a world abundant with choice and Michael has some ideas on how to use hype to cut through a crowded field.  Michael offers some tips on how to manage your way – ethically – through the world of hype to help you and your ideas breakthrough.  We also talked about Tim Ferriss’s claim on the world kickboxing championship, and we discussed which world would be a better world to live in: a world that was imagined in George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, or Aldous Huxley’s A Brave New World. Buckle up, Buttercups!    © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Michael Schein: https://michaelfschein.com/  You can download Michael’s recommendations on hype ideas at www.hypereads.com/list  Access to Anyone podcast: https://www.accesstoanyonepodcast.com/  George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four  Aldous Huxley’s A Brave New World: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World  Tim Ferriss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ferriss  Anarchist Cookbook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook  Shep Gordon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shep_Gordon  “Wall Street” movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film)  Wembley Stadium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley_Stadium  Frans de Waal Capuchin Monkey Experiments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg   Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    Musical Links Black Flag “Nervous Breakdown”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302oEzSPCqE  Violent Femmes “Blister in the Sun”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE-dqW4uBEE  David Bowie “Modern Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLMUZahN7NU  Alice Kooper “No More Mister Nice Guy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6ngThqMEs  Ministry “Jesus Built My Hotrod”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpPOX6-sP7g  Dead Milkmen “Punk Rock Girl”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF7fgEMrk0k  Sonic Youth “Superstar”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21VecIIdBI  California Raisins “Heard it Through the Grapevine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UShiwymsX0w  WWF “Land of A Thousand Dances”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHZCcu9ltcs  Whitney Houston “I Will Always Love You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4hweZRU0k  Boomtown Rats “I Don’t Like Mondays”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcZW0GFLSdw  The Specials “Monkey Man”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49FbSq_JNeQ  Sex Pistols “God Save The Queen”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02D2T3wGCYg  The Clash “Rock the Casbah”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9r8LMU9bQ  Husker Du “Camden Palace”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsGw8DyWkik  The Replacements “I Will Dare”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4ynSTN8bkc  Depeche Mode “Personal Jesus”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1xrNaTO1bI  The Dead Kennedy’s “In God We Trust”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqIS0n64Ig  Joy Division “She’s Lost Control”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD2SfQJOK08 
AJ Jacobs is an author, journalist, lecturer, and human guinea pig. He has written four New York Times bestsellers, including The Year of Living Biblically, that combine memoir, science, and humor with a dash of self-help. AJ has said that he sees his life as a series of experiments in which he immerses himself in a project or lifestyle, for better or worse, then writes about what he learned. His most recent book, Thanks A Thousand: A Gratitude Journey, starts with wanting to thank the people who brought him his cup of coffee. It starts with the barista and ends up in South America on a mountainside coffee plantation. The book is based on some simple ideas that gratitude can be the catalyst for a journey around the world, and how experimentation keeps our brains flexible in ways that enhance our lives. We loved our conversation with AJ because he made a passionate case for learning to pay more attention to things. To immerse ourselves in the moment where we can appreciate that moment for what it is. He encourages us to see the details, and in those details, to see the connections. He challenges us to be grateful for the life we are given. If we can slow down, savor these moments for what they are, we can curate a better life for ourselves. You’ll find lots about AJ that is fun and informative – but above it all, you’ll find him inspiring.  If AJ can do these things on such a grand scale, we ought to be able to experiment with our lives – even if it is just not making your bed in the morning. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links AJ Jacobs: https://ajjacobs.com/ “Thanks A Thousand”: https://thanksathousandbook.com/ AJ’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/a_j_jacobs_my_journey_to_thank_all_the_people_responsible_for_my_morning_coffee George Clooney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Clooney The Encyclopedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/ Windshield Wiper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscreen_wiper The New York Times Crossword Puzzle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_crossword_puzzle Alex Trebek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Trebek George Loewenstein: https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/people/faculty/george-loewenstein.html Ambient Noise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_noise Coffitivity (ambient noise generator): https://coffitivity.com/ Melanie Brucks: https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/mb4598 Michael Phelps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Phelps French Horn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_horn Electronic Dance Music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music MDMA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA Jonathan Mann, Episode 207: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/jonathan-mann-is-it-possible-to-design-an-experience/ Mark Landau: https://www.mindful.org/how-mindfulness-shifts-our-perception-of-time/ Neil Gaiman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Gaiman Masterclass: https://www.masterclass.com/ Gratitude / Gratia / Grace: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gratitude Robert Emmons: https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/in-praise-of-gratitude Francesca Gino, Episode 60: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/francesca-gino-curiosity-and-rebellion-makes-your-career/ Tony Robbins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Robbins   Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves   Musical Links ZZ Top “La Grange”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU Lil’ Wayne “2 Diamonds”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrLSro5XNzY Sex Pistols “God Save the Queen”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02D2T3wGCYg
Linda Thunstrom, PhD is a Swedish economist working as an assistant professor of economics at the University of Wyoming. (That’s in Laramie, Wyoming, not Wyoming, Sweden.) Her research interests include behavioral, experimental, public, and health economics. Her interests merged after Hurricane Florence when she became curious about the effect that offering thoughts and prayers might have on potential donors to natural disasters. She set up a study to see if potential donors might feel like they don’t need to make a monetary donation to the victims if they’ve already offered up some thoughts and prayers. Her results may surprise you. And she didn’t stop there. She also looked at this question from the recipient’s end. As an economist, she framed the study in monetary terms and wondered if disaster victims might take less money in a donation if they knew someone was praying for them – especially if it were a Christian stranger or a priest. Again: fascinating results! We also talked about willful ignorance and the role it plays in our decision-making. Willful ignorance involves neglecting information about how your actions will affect others or yourself. It’s different from and less harmful than outright self-deception. Self-deception is commonly associated with lying to make yourself feel better. The big worry with self-deception is that you start believing your own lies. Willful ignorance is like heading into the basement to get a Coke Zero and noticing a box of Oreo cookies and deciding that now is probably a pretty good time to have one, or two, of those chocolate calorie bombs. We are neglecting the facts that we already know about Oreo cookies: they’re not really good for. But we nab a couple anyway. We’d like to thank you to Andrea Mannberg, a guest from Episode 199, for introducing us to Linda. Both of these economists are applying their training to fantastically interesting topics and we’re grateful for both of their work. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Linda Thunstrom: https://lindathunstrom.com/ Linda Thunstrom, PhD: https://www.uwyo.edu/economics/faculty-staff/linda-thunstrom/ Shiri Noy, PhD: https://denison.edu/people/shiri-noy “Exploiting moral wiggle room: experiments demonstrating an illusory preference for fairness” Dana, et. all (2007): https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00199-006-0153-z George Loewenstein, PhD: https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/people/faculty/george-loewenstein.html Todd Cherry, PhD: http://www.uwyo.edu/economics/faculty-staff/todd-cherry/index.html George Loewenstein, PhD: https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/people/faculty/george-loewenstein.html Dan Gilbert, PhD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Gilbert_(psychologist) Contemporary Folk Music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music Americana Music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(music) Hurricane Florence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Florence “Temporal View of the Costs and Benefits of Self-Deception” Gino, Norton, Ariely: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=39857 Eric Oliver, Episode 172: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-talk-to-your-friends-about-their-conspiracy-theories-with-eric-oliver/ Andrea Mannberg, Episode 199: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-decision-making-is-critical-for-back-country-skiers-and-sex/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon Site: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves   Musical Links Jay Shogren “Let’s Fall Behind”: http://www.jshogren.com/https/jshogrenshanghaidbandcampcom/track/lets-fall-behind David Bowie “Under Pressure” with Annie Lennox and Queen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCP2-Bfhy04  
GAABS is an organization that was recently founded to act as an accrediting body for applied behavioral scientists. GAABS is The Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists and is open for membership for those who demonstrate their ability to ethically apply behavioral science to their work. In this episode, we spoke with co-founding members Nuala Walsh and Steve Martin. Nuala is a contributor to Harvard Business Review and is the founder of MindEquity – a behavioral science consultancy based in Dublin. And Steve Martin is the co-author, with Robert Cialdini and Noah Goldstein, of Yes! 50 secrets from the Science of Persuasion, which has sold more than a million copies and been translated into 27 languages. Nuala is a repeat guest that was featured in episode 203 about whistleblowers and fake memories, and Steve was featured in episode 110 with his co-author, Joe Marks. Together, they wrote “Messengers: Who We Listen To, Who We Don’t, and Why.” In our conversation, we discussed what GAABS is and what they’re hoping to do to help both practitioners of behavioral science as well as the professionals and institutions that hire those services. On a more philosophical note, we steered into what is lacking in applied behavioral science these days and agreed that there are many fields that could benefit from a behavioral science lens. And across the board, we agreed that education for all parties is critical for the field to be successful. On an educational note, Steve wryly noted that students could use more psychology and less geography in the classroom, and teed up the novel concept of prac-ademics. And, later, Nuala introduced the idea of leveraging trends, like big data, and noted, “if we marry behavioral science with data science, we actually have an in.” We hope you enjoy our conversation with Nuala and Steve and that you’ll check out the Behavioral Grooves Patreon site at www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Now go out this week and find YOUR groove. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Links Nuala Walsh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nualagwalsh/?originalSubdomain=uk Steve Martin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-martin-13832b5/ GAABS: https://gaabs.org/ Oxbow Lake: https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/oxbow-lake/ Annie Duke Alliance for Decision Education: https://alliancefordecisioneducation.org/learn/about-the-alliance/team/board/annie-duke Mya Shankar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Shankar Robert Cialdini: https://www.influenceatwork.com/robert-cialdini-phd/biography/ Jennifer Lerner: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/jennifer-lerner Nuala Walsh – Episode 203: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/on-fake-memories-and-whistleblowers-with-nuala-walsh/ Steve Martin – Episode 110: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/ Steve Martin and Joe Marks “Messengers: Who We Listen To, Who We Don’t, and Why”: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43522604-messengers Harlow Gale, PhD: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/203619125_Harlow_Gale_and_the_Origins_of_the_Psychology_of_Advertising     Musical Links Sinead O’Connor “Nothing Compares 2 U” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-EF60neguk : Electric Light Orchestra “Don’t Bring Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATuX7V4XOlk The Cranberries “Linger”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5B14-VytM Van Morrison “Into the Mystic”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0gvodQgu-Y Fleetwood Mac “The Chain”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYHwH1Vb-c Rod Stewart “Maggie May”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2CQ0FvAZuw Carly Simon “Nobody Does it Better”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaV-6qerkqI Joan Baez “Diamonds & Rust”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGMHSbcd_qI Mike + The Mechanics “The Living Years”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hr64MxYpgk The Who “Eminence Front”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx6Zgz0TZuA  
Dessa is a singer, rapper, writer, speaker, science and philosophy connoisseur, podcast host, and ice cream flavor inventor. (Her flavor is Dessa’s Existential Crunch which consists of crème fraîche, brown sugar ice cream, Jameson Irish Whiskey, Disaronno Amaretto Liqueur, and a cashew and praline pecan brittle crunch). Dessa has made a career of bucking genres and defying expectations — her résumé as a musician includes being part of the Doomtree collective, a solo artist with performances at Lollapalooza and Glastonbury, co-composer of pieces for 100-voice choir, performances with the Minnesota Orchestra, and top-200 entries on the Billboard charts. She also contributed to the #1 album The Hamilton Mixtape. As a writer, she published a memoir-in-essays called My Own Devices which was released in 2018 in addition to two literary collections along with many articles in journals such as The New York Times and National Geographic Traveler. And now she is the host of a new podcast that explores “why we do the things we do” called Deeply Human. The podcast is a fun exploration of a number of topics and brings in experts to help explain why we behave the way we do. We wanted to talk to Dessa before we knew about her podcast. Here is part of the e-mail that we sent to her publicist to ask for an interview: “While it may seem a bit off-brand for us to ask for an interview with Dessa, we think that it would be fascinating, and we’d love to talk to her about the intersection of music and emotion.   While we typically interview behavioral science researchers and practitioners, we often interview what we call “accidental behavioral scientists.”  These are people who are applying the aspects of behavioral science to their work without really knowing that they are doing it. Dessa captures a lot of our human experience in her lyrics and discussing that would be a wonderful way of exploring this concept. We would also love to talk to her about her experience with the scientific fMRI research that she talks about in her essay, “Call of your ghost.” Our conversation with Dessa examined a wide range of topics – moving from her podcast, to music’s ability to create synchronicity between people, to how we can’t compare subjective experiences, to how emotional connection comes from dropping veils and getting out of our “practiced mirror face.”  This is an episode that you definitely don’t want to miss. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Dessa: www.dessawander.com or www.doomtree.com Deeply Human: wherever you get your podcasts from Lute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lute The Diary of Ann Frank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl Alan Alda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Alda Helen Fisher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_(anthropologist) Barry Schwartz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Schwartz_(psychologist) Oxytocin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin_receptor EEG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography QEEG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_electroencephalography Autism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism Epilepsy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy Penijean Gracefire: https://penijean.com/home Cheryl Olman: http://www.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/cheryl-olman-phd fMRI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_magnetic_resonance_imaging Neurofeedback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback Harry Haslow – Wire Monkey experiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow Research on Emotion and Narrative - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325962169_Emotion_and_Narrative_Perspectives_in_Autobiographical_Storytelling Drummer Boy (Military): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drummer_(military) “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms”: https://tinyurl.com/yw4v5avs Pew Research (2016) The Joy and Urgency of Learning: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2016/03/22/the-joy-and-urgency-of-learning/ Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing    Musical Links Dessa “Fighting Fish”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9bwKI-fb7k Dessa “The Chaconne” (Kurt’s favorite version of the song with Aby Wolf and Jeremy Messersmith): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dt8mY2WiQ London Bulgarian Choir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GEDbKe038o Lady Midnight “Bloodsong”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRb6Uqsvq5w Chopin’s Mazurkas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5D46aHhRDM Erik Satie “Gymnopédie No. 1”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0xzp4zzBE “Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M “Hamilton Mix Tape”: https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Mixtape-Explicit-Various-artists/dp/B01M3XVPL4 Dessa Live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5n1lsfZI3A Mayada “Haydn Sonata in D”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpTfxMmBsLY Chopin “Mazurka Op. 68 n. 2”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL4_uD0Vp5U Yann Tiersen “La valse d'Amélie”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj9BihmugmI Tim Houlihan “I Get Lonesome, Too”: http://www.timhoulihan.com/music  
Can you design an experience for someone else? Jonathan Mann, the Vice President of User Experience at Renaissance Learning says, “Umm, not really.” Prior to joining Renaissance, Jonathan led user experience teams at Target Corporation and PayPal. And as a practitioner, he’s always valued good research to help him, and his teams, deliver better work. Our discussion centered around the question, “is it possible to design an experience?” Jonathan’s research discovered that “an experience” is more than just what we think of as the element that happens in the moment we consider it an experience. Jonathan reminded us that the totality of “an experience” combines three key elements: the anticipation of the experience, the experience itself, and the memory of the experience. A vacation is a great example of this: we plan and anticipate lots of experiences before we arrive at our destination. Then we are flooded with experiences in the moment, and afterward, we have photos to remind us and memories to interpret our experience after the fact. We know that the remembered self is one of the most important reasons we do anything: how we’ll remember it. So why shouldn’t we consider it identifying the experience in its broadest sense? We talked about Jonathan’s meeting with Bob Cialdini and how Jonathan’s work with Bob’s crew brought incredible results to the initiatives they were working on at PayPal. We are always happy to see how nicely behavioral science and business results dovetail. And maybe most importantly, this episode features a live fingerstyle guitar micro-concert by Jonathan. We asked him about playing and he instantly turned around, grabbed his guitar, and started playing for us. His fingerstyle abilities are very fine, and that part of the recording was nothing short of delightful – in every aspect of the word. Enjoy it! We hope you enjoy our episode with Jonathan Mann and discover new ways that you can integrate his clever thinking on designing an experience into your own work. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Jonathan Mann LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jdmann/ Jonathan Mann Album: http://jonathanmanndesign.com/music (with links to Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, etc) Jonathan Mann YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVtiHkr4xdBzVZ6Oc3ybsUw Jonathan Mann Woodworking: https://www.behance.net/fynedesign Dan Gilbert, “Stumbling on Happiness”: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56627.Stumbling_on_Happiness Robert Cialdini - Towel study: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/dont-throw-in-the-towel-use-social-influence-research Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing The Dakota: https://www.dakotacooks.com/ Fingerstyle Guitar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerstyle_guitar     Musical Links Green Day “Boulevard of Broken Dreams”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soa3gO7tL-c Stone Temple Pilots “Interstate Love Song”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MQY33cYCg Leo Kottke “Last Steam Train”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E_s4vQJx-k Tommy Emmanuel “Classical Gas”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S33tWZqXhnk The Jimi Hendrix Experience “Voodoo Child”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFfnlYbFEiE  
Bertram Malle, PhD teaches social cognitive science and social psychology at Brown University, he’s the author of dozens of articles and has focused his recent work on how humans feel about robots, and researches how the etiquette and facial abilities of robots impact how we perceive them. His research indicates that the more human-looking a robot is – especially in its “face” – the more humans are likely to attribute emotions or moral codes to them. Bertram’s work reminds us that the context we experience robots in influences the relationships we build. Maybe more importantly, Bertram reminded us that robots must be designed to exist in very specific contexts. The appearance and communication abilities of a robot that checks us into a doctor’s office needs to be very different from the robots we use to assist us with making an airline reservation. While that may be intuitive on one level, it highlights the remarkable complexity required in the design and manufacturing of these robots. Each one needs to be built for a specific purpose – there is no one-size-fits-all with robots. Bertram reminded us that it’s difficult to imagine that robots will ever reach the complexity and flexibility of their human counterparts. We also parsed out the differences between hope and optimism. This topic was particularly important to because we’re too often conflating the two. Hope, Bertram explained, is something we have when we lack confidence or influence in the outcome. And optimism exists where we might have some degree of influence over the outcome. We hope you enjoy our conversation with Bertram Malle.   © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Bertram Malle, PhD email:  bfmalle@brown.edu Social Cognitive Science Research Lab (Brown University): http://research.clps.brown.edu/SocCogSci/index.html Bertram Malle, “Theory of Mind”: https://nobaproject.com/modules/theory-of-mind Bertram Malle & Patty Bruininks “Distinguishing Hope from Optimism and Related Affective States”: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226421327_Distinguishing_Hope_from_Optimism_and_Related_Affective_States Bertram Malle Selected Publications: http://research.clps.brown.edu/SocCogSci/Publications/publications.html ABOT: http://www.abotdatabase.info/ MIT Lab on Automated Vehicles: https://www.media.mit.edu/research/?filter=everything&tag=autonomous-vehicles “Her” film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film) “Ex Machina” film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Machina_(film) TAY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot) Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov Jóhann Jóhannsson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3hann_J%C3%B3hannsson Hildur Guðnadóttir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildur_Gu%C3%B0nad%C3%B3ttir Fritz Heider, PhD & Marianne Simmel, PhD, “An experimental study of apparent behavior”: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1945-01435-001   Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing Minnesota Timberwolves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Timberwolves   Musical Links Radiohead “Hail to the Thief”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MdwaUtW_D4 Esbjörn Svensson Trio “Seven Days of Falling”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KXq6RJ0PA Bill Dixon “Motorcycle ‘66”: https://youtu.be/ZcO8zfp-FLg Tyshawn Sorey “Unfiltered”: https://tyshawn-sorey.bandcamp.com/album/unfiltered Sigur Ros “Brennisteinn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc6zXSdYXm8 Hildur Gu∂nadottir “Unveiled”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzaxVFc9oIs Anders Hillborg “Violin Concerto No. 1”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrJ7rhQDjsE Daniel Lanois with the Venetian Snares: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9u93SDxNsk Daniel Lanois with Parachute Club: https://www.discogs.com/The-Parachute-Club-Rise-Up/release/1209691 The Bad Plus “Never Stop II”: https://thebadplus.bandcamp.com/album/never-stop-ii Iceland Symphony Orchestra, “Recurrence”: https://nationalsawdust.org/thelog/2017/02/16/playlist-9/ David Chesky, “Jazz in the new harmonic”: https://chesky.com/products/jazz-in-the-new-harmonic-david-chesky-download Kings of Leon, “Sex on Fire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF0HhrwIwp0 “Annihilation” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9eidResq9g “Tenet” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVMkvCTT_yg
Logan Ury studied psychology at Harvard, was a TED Fellow, then became a behavioral scientist at Google, where she ran Google’s behavioral science team – which we now know as The Irrational Lab. She became a dating coach and is currently the Director of Relationship Science at the dating app Hinge, where she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. Her work has appeared in The New York Times and The Atlantic, among a variety of media outlets, including HBO and the BBC. And you should note that she’s a featured speaker at SXSW 2021. Aside from those cool things, we wanted to talk to her because she is the author of How To Not Die Alone. In our conversation with Logan, we talked about the challenges people face in getting prepared for dating, making the most of their dating experiences, and maintaining great relationships once they’ve landed in one. She shared her insights into how to overcome some of the common hurdles and to make the most out of each phase of the dating life. We had an interesting discussion about why moving from ‘romanticizer’ or ‘maximizer’ to ‘satisficer’ can make a big difference in your relationships (and in life). We talked about the Monet Effect and how we need to work hard to overcome some of our biggest biases – like the fundamental attribution error and negativity bias. She was also kind enough to share a little bit about her communal living conditions and her recommendation that we all need more significant others – OSO’s – in these turbulent times. NOTE #1: The “F” word features prominently in our conversation since it’s in the title of one of her book’s chapters. NOTE #2: Christina Gravert joined for our Grooving Session as our first-ever Grooving Partner, and you’ll hear her in the introduction, as well. We’re pleased that our good friend was named by Forbes magazine as one of the top behavioral scientists you ought to know. Christina teaches Economics at the University of Copenhagen, is a co-founder of Impactually, a behavioral consultancy, she has been a guest on Behavioral Grooves (episode 16 on creating a Nudge-A-Thon), and was a speaker at Nudge.It North 2021. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Logan Ury: https://www.loganury.com/ “How to Not Die Alone”: https://www.loganury.com/book Ira Glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Glass Dan Ariely: https://danariely.com/ Esther Perel: https://www.estherperel.com/ John Gottman, The Gottman Institute: https://www.gottman.com/ Eli Finkel: https://elifinkel.com/ Daniel Gilbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Gilbert_(psychologist) Jane Ebert: https://www.brandeis.edu/facultyguide/person.html?emplid=0fd6834b65b0eddec69f2ab77539fd341d63b270 Alain De Botton “School of Life”: https://www.theschooloflife.com/about-us/faculty/alain-de-botton/ Reiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki “Algorithms to Live By”: https://algorithmstoliveby.com/ John Nash “A Beautiful Mind”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash_Jr. Nicole Prause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Prause 36 Questions That Lead to Love: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/style/no-37-big-wedding-or-small.html The School of Life books: https://www.theschooloflife.com/shop/us/books/ Shelley Archambeau – Episode 204: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-shelley-archambeau-flies-like-an-eagle/ Christina Gravert – Episode 16: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nudge-a-thon-with-dr-christina-gravert/ Christina Gravert, “Online Dating Like a Game Theorist”: https://behavioralscientist.org/online-dating-like-a-game-theorist/ Christina Gravert – Impactually: https://impactually.se/ “10 Behavioral Scientists You Should Know”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/2020/10/29/10-behavioral-scientists-you-should-know/?sh=36ad80b442e0   Musical Links “Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M Chance the Rapper “Coloring Book”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeChAs-bI3A Bush “Glycerine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXbHN5Gijw 
Shellye Archambeau is the author of “Unapologetically Ambitious: Take Risks, Break Barriers, and Create Success on Your Own Terms.” It’s part memoir, part inspiration, and career guidebook. While Shellye argues it’s for everyone, we reckon it’s really best suited for the most ambitious among us. In the book, Shellye shares how she went from being the only black girl in her high school to being the CEO of a Silicon Valley tech firm, MetricStream. And it’s an amazing tale of an amazing woman. In our conversation with Shellye, she talked with us about the challenges she faced growing up. But what was more interesting to us was talking with her about the way she makes decisions. She has this ability to see how things fit – or don’t fit – into her personal and business goals. And then she acts on them with amazing conviction. She is one remarkable person. We talked about how she has a strong inclination to set lofty goals – that we call BHAGS (big, hairy, audacious goals) – that never changes over the course of her career. These BHAGS gave her a North Star to navigate by. But the BRICKS (the steppingstones to needed to achieve long-term goals) she used along her journey were flexible and changed as her situation changed. This flexibility is something we wanted to call out, because it wasn’t just being flexible that got her where she is today. Her incredible ability to create plans and execute those plans is what really set her apart from her peers. And we can imagine that all of her peers at IBM were talented, skilled, smart, and driven. Just not as much as Shellye.   INTERESTED IN BEING A PART-TIME INTERN FOR BEHAVIORAL GROOVES? If you’d like to pursue being a part-time intern with Behavioral Grooves, please contact Kurt or Tim directly. Kurt Nelson, PhD: kurt@lanterngroup.com Tim Houlihan: tim@behavioralchemy.com   “Transfiguration” by Jonathan Benson is used for the interstitial music in this episode. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Shellye Archambeau on Twitter: @ShelArchambeau Shellye’s web site: https://shellyearchambeau.com/ “Unapologetically Ambitious”: https://shellyearchambeau.com/books Carol Dweck – Growth Mindset: https://www.mindsetworks.com/science/ George Bernard Shaw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw Stephen Curtis, Episode # 148: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/covid-19-crisis-stephen-curtis-on-neuroplasticity-and-creating-the-ideal/ Locke & Latham on Goals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal_setting Nicholas Christakis and James Fowler, “The Spread of Obesity in a Large Social Network over 32 Years”: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsa066082   Musical Links Steve Miller “Fly Like an Eagle”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6lAwbE1J4 Spinners “I’ll Be Around”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq5VXTO3HDI Marvin Gaye “What’s Going On”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPkM8F0sjSw The O’ Jays, “Love Train”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECZr3-a_rDA Teddy Pendergrass, “Turn Off the Lights”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK4wofMj5-k Alfie Pollitt, "Say It (Over and Over)": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTaDr1lq8mY Earl Klugh, “This Time”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7fF_eRYM5k Dave Koz, “You Make Me Smile”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cshiIac91U Brian Culbertson, “Colors of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MM5hSddIcg Praful, “Don't Fight with Life/Om Namah Shivaya”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D51CbCMY10 George Benson, “On Broadway”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ef0kThw5VY Elton John, “Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On Me”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncuiQAfPhTg Audrey Hepburn, “Moon River”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uirBWk-qd9A
Nuala Walsh is a strategic adviser with MindEquity, working with organizations to create reputation, commercial and cultural change. She is a global leader, an award-winning marketeer, and a behavioral scientist. Nuala has nearly 3 decades of strategic, commercial, and governance experience in asset management, investment banking, and consulting. All her strategic solutions are informed by decision science & behavioral frameworks. Nuala is also the Non-Executive Director of GAABS, the Vice-Chair of UN Women, and she has been the Chief Marketing Officer, Standard Life Aberdeen. In short, she’s a remarkable person whose insights are worth paying attention to as both a practitioner and a researcher. We spoke with Nuala recently about some investigations she completed on two topics. The first was to understand the impact that fake news has on our ‘remembering’ self. What she discovered is that our memories don’t discriminate between true or false information – we tend to remember it all roughly the same way, when we believe it at the start. The second area we discussed was about whistleblowers in modern corporations. Without the proper environment, whistleblowers don’t act or can be maltreated within an organization when they do raise their hands. Nuala’s got some ideas on how to change that. Here’s her list of tips for improving your corporate culture to support whistleblowers: Reframe. The word whistleblowing is a negative word, so reframing it as “speaking up” could be more positive. There's a shift in how companies can rewrite how they message to employees. Economic. Scandalized companies earn 4% less than firms that have not experienced major scandals. So by definition, a company could earn 4% more if it’s clean and could impact employees' wages should they go to another firm. Rewards. Rewarding employees with relevant incentives and she is quick to recommend against financial, such as appropriately recognizing people, sharing salient stories of courage, talking about people in the company, people outside the company as role models…all of these can contribute positively to better company culture. By taking bad behavior out of the shadows or removing the Social Norming effect of removing it from secrecy is a powerful tool. But you can't just point to somebody internally to highlight their courage, leaders need to appropriately highlight teams that have called out errors that prevented disasters. It’s best to not pinpoint an individual because of personal risk and a lot of potential threats. Make it Normal. Employees won’t speak up in a dangerous work environment. The more you make the environment open and communal and part of the cultural norm, the less fear that is induced on people and the greater likelihood they’ll point out bad behavior when it happens. We hope you enjoy our conversation with Nuala as much as we did. If you like it, please don’t hesitate to give Behavioral Grooves a quick rating on your listening app. Links Nuala Walsh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nualagwalsh/ Anthony Hopkins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Hopkins Robert De Niro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_De_Niro Dan Gilbert: https://psychology.fas.harvard.edu/people/daniel-gilbert Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman Elizabeth Loftus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing Merle van den Akker: https://www.moneyonthemind.org/about The Innocence Project: https://innocenceproject.org/ Josef Mengele: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele Ted Bundy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy Ann Rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Rule OJ Simpson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson Bibb Latané: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibb_Latan%C3%A9 John Darley: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Darley Kitty Genovese and The Bystander Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese Robert Cialdini: https://www.influenceatwork.com/ Cass Sunstein: https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/10871/Sunstein GAABS: https://gaabs.org/ Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/ Nudge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_(book) Predictably Irrational: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational On False Creating False Memories: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5407674/#:~:text=The%20Deese%2C%20Roediger%20and%20McDermott,recall%20or%20recognize%20these%20words. “On the prediction of occurrence of particular verbal intrusions in immediate recall” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13664879/   Musical Links Tim Houlihan “Another Orion”: https://timhoulihan.bandcamp.com/track/another-orion Eurythmics “Here Comes the Rain Again”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8Ec7ojahU Tina Turner “Proud Mary”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIpkMDRjYw Queen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAZOFABpmIs Michael Jackson “Billy Jean”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3t9-kf7ZNA Carmen Monarca “Habanera”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icJRTdpS2pU U2 “Sunday, Bloody Sunday”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCKcULlEydo Van Morrison “Into the Mystic”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPSBzGEklE Elvis Presley “Heartbreak Hotel”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6qK589_Bo   © 2021 Behavioral Grooves
Chaning Jang is the CSO of the Busara Center for Behavioral Economics and has helped lead the organization since 2013. He is responsible for strategy, and a portfolio of projects, primarily focused on research. Prior to joining Busara, Chaning worked as an English teacher in the Czech Republic and an equities trader in Los Angeles. Chaning completed a Postdoc at Princeton University in Psychology and Public Affairs, holds a PhD in Economics from the University of Hawai'i with specialization in Behavioral Economics and Development, and a bachelor's in Managerial Economics from the University of California, Davis.  He is also a CFA level II holder. We spoke to Chaning one night (for him) from his office in Nairobi, Kenya and we focused our discussion on context and how so much of psychological research has been focused in WEIRD countries (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic). Because of this focus and how behavior can be linked to cultural and social norms, countries that are not WEIRD are often unable to successfully apply the research that was executed in WEIRD cultures. Chaning is trying to change that. The work that the Busara Center is doing is important on many levels, the most significant is trying to eliminate poverty at the heart of where it is the worst on earth: Africa. Chaning’s work is fascinating, his ideas sparkle with intensity, and his comments are inspiring. We hope you enjoy our conversation with Chaning Jang. We are grateful to Allison Zelkowitz from Save the Children for connecting us.   Links Chaning Jang, PhD: https://www.busaracenter.org/staff-bios?tag=Chaning%20Jang Busara Center for Behavioral Economics: https://www.busaracenter.org/ Dan Ariely, PhD: https://danariely.com/ WEIRD: https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/WeirdPeople.pdf Johannes Haushofer, PhD: https://www.tedmed.com/speakers/show?id=621210 Kahneman & Tversky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman The Linda Problem (Conjunction Fallacy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy Jeremy Shapiro, PhD: https://www.poverty-action.org/people/jeremy-shapiro Economic and psychological effects of health insurance and cash transfers: Evidence from a randomized experiment in Kenya: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304387818310289 Trier Social Stress Test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_social_stress_test Cold Pressor Test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_pressor_test Kevin Parker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Parker_(musician) Poverty Decreases IQ: https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sendhil/files/976.full_.pdf   Musical Links Tame Impala (Australian psych-rock): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C24hUt18RWY John Lennon “Instant Karma”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfBPbFEel5k Daft Punk with Pharrell Williams “Get Lucky”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkeIwhKIi84 Fleetwood Mac “The Chain”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6P2_i0Y6ms Joji “Your Man”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrtkU7i0qD8 Fleet Foxes “Can I Believe You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2E2DpWO3-Y Freddie Mercury “I’m The Great Pretender”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLRjFWDGs1g   © 2021 Behavioral Grooves
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Prashant Kumar

Great podcast! I learn so much with each episode

Oct 24th
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