The Biblical Mind

Is communion just a symbolic snack—or a mysterious, formative act of grace? In this episode, Rev. Hannah King, an Anglican priest and author of the upcoming Feasting on a Hope: How God Sets a Table in the Wilderness, joins Dru Johnson to explore why the Lord’s Supper is essential for the Christian life. Hannah shares her journey from evangelical church spaces into Anglicanism, unpacking how the Eucharist re-centered her understanding of salvation as bodily, communal, and ongoing. She shares deeply personal stories—of trauma, grief, and healing—that reveal how the sacrament offers more than information: it offers union with Christ. Together, they tackle difficult questions: Will weekly communion become rote? Why is the Eucharist so often sidelined in modern worship? What do we gain when we treat the Table as the center, not the add-on? And how does this sacrament speak to survivors, children, skeptics, and the spiritually weary? Hannah reminds us that even when we feel nothing, the Table is still doing its work. Like Sabbath and marriage, it shapes us slowly—but surely. For more on Hannah's work: https://www.hannahmillerking.com/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Understanding Barriers to Worship 03:06 The Role of Liturgy in Worship 06:14 The Nature of Worship Experience 08:58 Structure of Anglican Worship 12:11 The Importance of the Eucharist 15:07 Embodied Faith and Redemption 22:21 Exploring the Nature of the Soul and Body 24:40 The Familial Nature of Faith and Community 26:20 The Dynamics of Church and Class 28:12 Rituals, Liturgy, and Their Impact on Worship 30:31 The Eucharist: A Meal of Fellowship and Equality 35:18 Embracing Mystery in the Lord's Supper 39:25 The Centrality of the Eucharist in Christian Worship

What if the Bible isn’t something you read—but something you hear, memorize, and perform? In this groundbreaking episode, Dr. Fausto Liriano shares his work translating the Bible into indigenous languages without writing it down. Through oral Bible translation projects in Guatemala, Mexico, and the Philippines, Dr. Liriano helps communities internalize Scripture in their own languages—through performance, storytelling, and memorization. He explains how this work challenges not only Western assumptions about literacy and theology, but also confronts colonial patterns in missionary work, translation philosophy, and even what counts as “canonical” Scripture. The episode explores how indigenous languages often mirror Hebrew’s poetic ambiguity more than Spanish or English do, why repetition and redundancy are theological tools, and how people with no formal education are memorizing and performing hours of biblical material with precision and reverence. Dr. Liriano also reflects on the need for contextual theology in Latin America—one that isn’t imported from the North, but developed by the people, for the people. He calls for a theology of corruption, of wholeness, and of embodied participation in God’s word. For more on Fausto's work: https://translation.bible/staff-profile/fausto-liriano/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Latin American Theology 01:59 Misunderstandings of Latin American Theology 04:47 The Need for Contextual Theology 07:41 Corruption and Its Impact on Theology 10:43 The Role of Indigenous Voices in Theology 13:52 Oral Bible Translation in Guatemala 16:47 The Value of Orality in Cultural Contexts 25:08 Translating for Indigenous Cultures 27:57 Exploring Orality in Biblical Texts 30:13 The Process of Oral Bible Translation 34:57 Community Engagement and Performance 37:41 The Importance of Oral Tradition 42:14 Navigating Colonialism and Canonization 44:29 The Heart of Translation: Language and Connection

Is AI intelligent—or just artificial? In this provocative episode, Dr. Noreen Herzfeld, a rare scholar of both computer science and theology, joins Dru Johnson to expose what most people overlook about artificial intelligence. Drawing from her recent book The Artifice of Intelligence, she challenges the mythology of AGI (artificial general intelligence) and critiques the environmental, social, and theological costs of current AI use. Herzfeld argues that large language models are plateauing and that the real danger isn’t a superintelligence—it’s our uncritical, energy-intensive use of biased software masquerading as neutral tools. She warns of AI’s water and fossil fuel demands, its disembodied affirmation loops, and the illusion that chatbots are viable substitutes for therapists, pastors, or friends. Rooting her critique in Christian theology, Herzfeld defends the value of embodiment, human uniqueness, and community. She sees modern AI and transhumanist dreams as a return to ancient Gnostic heresies—disembodied, elitist, and ultimately dehumanizing. This episode is essential for anyone navigating the ethical, spiritual, and ecological implications of AI. You’ll come away more equipped to use AI critically—and to resist the false promises of digital utopia. For Noreen's Book "The Artifice of Intelligence": https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506486901/The-Artifice-of-Intelligence We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 The Current State of AI Technology 02:21 Environmental Impact of AI 07:55 Understanding AI and AGI 16:36 The Dangers of Chatbots 19:42 Embodiment and AI 30:47 Future of AI and Its Societal Role

Can you be a Christian without the church? In this timely episode, Dr. Carmen Imes argues forcefully—and pastorally—that Christianity without community is a contradiction. Drawing from her new book Becoming God’s Family, she and Dru Johnson explore why so many people are walking away from church and what it would take to draw them back. From church hurt to spiritual abuse to toxic celebrity culture, Carmen doesn’t shy away from the reasons people leave. But she also offers theological and pastoral wisdom on why we can’t give up on the church. They explore biblical stories of failed community, why Hagar’s story matters, and what healthy faithfulness looks like in a flawed body. They also discuss when it’s time to leave a church, how American and global cultures can distort biblical community, and why true belonging means discomfort, difference, and even lament. Drawing on stories from her life and ministry, Carmen makes the case that church isn’t about getting what we want—it’s about becoming who we’re meant to be. For Carmen Imes' substack: https://substack.com/@carmenjoyimes We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more resources: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 The Importance of Community in Faith 01:37 Addressing Church Disconnection Post-Pandemic 04:22 The Role of Scripture in Community Dynamics 07:17 Navigating Church Hurt and Abuse 10:36 Finding Hope in Faithful Communities 13:46 The Broader Picture of Church Life 16:38 Understanding God's Family Beyond the Church 18:39 The Power of Community and Discipleship 20:03 Cultural Blind Spots and Family Loyalty 21:42 The Radical Nature of Church Family 25:24 The Ananias and Sapphira Lesson 27:59 The Role of Green Rooms in Church 31:10 Lamenting Together as a Family 32:45 The Messiness of Community 35:34 The Quest for Like-Mindedness 37:32 Diversity in Church and Community 41:58 Creative Solutions for Multicultural Worship  

What do Tolkien, vocation, and gritty literature have in common? In this conversation, Dru Johnson talks with literary scholar Dr. Karen Swallow Prior about why Christians often gravitate toward fantasy and romantic ideals—and why that can be a problem. Karen critiques the elevation of genre fiction like The Lord of the Rings as literary canon and urges Christians to engage “thick texts” that challenge us and train us to read Scripture more deeply. They discuss how modern reading habits—dominated by email, social media, and skimmable articles—undermine our ability to understand both literature and biblical texts. Karen argues that literature forms our posture toward the world, and that our spiritual and moral imagination needs the grounding realism found in great novels and gritty stories. The conversation pivots to Karen’s new book on vocation, exploring how distorted expectations around passion, work, and calling are leaving young people disillusioned. Instead, she calls for a deeper, more historically grounded view of labor, meaning, and responsibility. This episode is a must-listen for those interested in education, theology, literature, and the subtle ways imagination shapes our lives of faith. For more of Karen's literature: https://karenswallowprior.com/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Exploring Literature and Vocation 02:37 The Role of Literary Criticism in Cultural Contexts 05:44 Tolkien, Lewis, and the Literary Canon 08:46 Understanding Thick Texts: Literature and the Bible 12:04 The Importance of Reading Skills in Biblical Studies 14:55 Interpreting the Bible: Layers of Meaning in Texts 19:49 The Importance of Humility in Understanding Literature 24:00 Navigating Vocation and Career Expectations 29:54 The Reality of Menial Jobs and Their Value 33:37 Balancing Idealism and Grit in Literature 38:47 Finding Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful

In this second conversation with political philosopher Yoram Hazony, we dive deeper into the biblical concept of nationhood, wrestling with listener-submitted questions on nationalism, empire, and political virtue. Hazony responds to critiques and clarifies his position: biblical nationalism is not about racial purity or imperialism, but about the virtue of limited, self-governing peoples—unified not by ethnicity but by shared laws, traditions, and faith. Hazony distinguishes biblical terms like am and goy, explores the status of converts like Ruth, and dismantles the modern racialized understanding of nationhood. He emphasizes that scripture assumes nations will be internally diverse, but not infinitely so—there must be a dominant center that holds people together. The conversation also explores why biblical literature, not Greco-Roman thought, shaped the American constitutional order, and why the prophets critique empire while affirming the need for some form of the state. As Hazony puts it, “Purity is not the goal. Faithful unity is.” For the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy article Yoram mentioned in the interview, access the PDF here: https://journals.law.harvard.edu/jlpp/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2025/06/Hammer-FINAL_TC-JH-YRH-edits.pdf For more of Yoram's literature: https://www.yoramhazony.org/ https://x.com/yhazony We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 The Virtue of Nationalism 05:19 Understanding Nation in Biblical Context 10:42 The Role of Genetics and Kinship in Nations 15:25 Diversity and Unity in National Identity 20:09 Power Dynamics in Heterogeneous Nations 25:23 Biblical Foundations of Western Political Thought 38:14 The Christian Heritage of the West 41:15 Separation of Powers and the Mosaic Constitution 44:37 Separation of Church and State 48:29 The Concept of Empire 59:00 The Role of Kings and the State 01:00:17 Eschatology and the Future of Nations

Should Christians serve in the military? In this sobering and nuanced episode, Dru Johnson sits down with retired Colonel Darren Duke—Marine Corps Special Operations commander and intelligence officer—to unpack this deeply personal and morally complex question. Drawing from over 30 years of military experience, Duke shares his evolving view of military service, from Cold War patriotism to the hard-earned disillusionment of post-9/11 combat. He offers insight into how symbols like the Punisher, Spartan helmets, and Valhalla became coping mechanisms for troops struggling with the trauma and moral ambiguity of prolonged warfare. Duke also warns young Christians to prepare not only for the battlefield but for the morally challenging culture within the military itself. This conversation does not prescribe easy answers but outlines how one might think Christianly about enlistment, national service, and the weight of violence in a fallen world. Listeners will walk away better equipped to consider military service with sober realism, moral clarity, and theological depth. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Military Service and Personal Background 09:54 Reflections on Military Service and Christian Identity 17:52 The Complexity of War and Its Justifications 20:13 The Weight of War: Moral Trauma and Reflection 22:12 Existential Questions in Military Service 24:26 Navigating Morality in Combat 28:12 The Christian Perspective on Military Service 32:27 Defending the Defenseless: A Moral Duty 35:32 The Role of Leadership in Military Ethics

In this update episode, Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver pull back the curtain on the work happening at the Center for Hebraic Thought. From filing 501(c)(3) nonprofit status and building a stellar advisory board, to launching a redesigned website and reviving in-person workshops, the CHT has been quietly preparing for long-term growth and broader influence. They discuss the newly relaunched Hebraic Thought Community (HTC) on Facebook—already hundreds strong—and the four activities that bring the community together: highlighting member-created resources, sharing weekend reading, gathering weekly for public listening of Scripture, and hosting scholar Q&As. This digital community is sparking cross-disciplinary conversations, surfacing unexpected gems from laypeople, and reimagining how Christians listen to the Bible together. Dru and Mike also explain why listening (not just reading) Scripture in community is a powerful and ancient discipline—and why it’s missing from most churches today. They reflect on the joy of watching Scripture come alive in unexpected ways through these communal practices. They close with a call to support: whether through recurring giving, hosting a workshop, or sharing the word, CHT is building something bigger than any one person—something rooted in Scripture and flourishing in community. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:03 Updates on The Center for Hebraic Thought 03:03 Community Engagement and Workshops 06:03 Hebraic Thought Community Initiatives 09:04 Public Listening of Scripture 11:55 The Importance of Listening to Scripture 15:10 Website Updates and Future Plans 17:53 Funding and Support for the Center 20:58 Workshops and Community Involvement  

Should Christians look for Jesus in every verse of the Old Testament—or are we missing the point when we do? In this wide-ranging and practical conversation, Dr. Christopher J. H. Wright, Langham Partnership’s Global Ambassador and one of the world’s leading Old Testament scholars, joins Dru Johnson to explore the difference between Christocentric and Christotelic readings of Scripture. Wright reflects on common instincts Christians have—either skipping the Old Testament or trying to make every text about Jesus—and explains what we lose when we fail to respect the voice and context of the original authors. Wright argues for a more faithful reading that respects the historical drama of God’s covenantal journey with Israel, leading to but not eclipsed by Christ. He explains how Luke 24 affirms that the Scriptures point to Jesus, but that doesn’t mean every verse must be “about” him. Instead, Scripture forms a unified story with Jesus as its destination, not its hiding place. The conversation ends with a powerful case for why the global church, especially in the majority world, has crucial theological insights to offer—and why Western Christians should be ready to learn. For more from Chris Wright: https://christopherjhwright.com/ For more about Langham Partnership: https://us.langham.org/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Understanding the Old Testament's Relevance 02:01 Challenges in Interpreting the Old Testament 05:26 The Importance of Context in Biblical Interpretation 08:09 The Role of Jesus in Old Testament Texts 11:00 Exegetical Approaches to the Old Testament 14:08 The Historical Unfolding of God's Promises 21:06 The Transition from Law to Grace 22:32 The Journey of Scripture Towards Christ 24:57 Understanding the Role of the Gospels and Acts 27:00 The Nature of Biblical Narrative 29:01 Langham Partnership: Resourcing Global Churches 32:37 The Importance of Preaching in the Majority World 36:00 Listening to Global Voices in Theology

What if the most politically influential Christian leaders in America aren’t the ones you’ve heard of? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Matthew D. Taylor joins Dru Johnson to explain how the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and related charismatic networks reshaped modern evangelicalism—and helped deliver the presidency to Donald Trump. Taylor, a scholar of religion and politics, traces how televangelists, prophets, and apostolic leaders operating outside denominational structures built a new Christian populist movement with real spiritual and political power. Far from being fringe actors, these leaders—like Paula White and Lance Wallnau—hold enormous sway through media networks and prophetic authority. Taylor explores how modern prophecy, celebrity culture, and populist theology have created a system resistant to critique, driven by revival language and unregulated influence. He explains why evangelical elites misjudged the NAR’s reach and how their dismissal of these leaders as “hucksters” only deepened the divide. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to the New Apostolic Reformation Movement 02:50 Understanding Pushback and Misconceptions 05:46 Defining the New Apostolic Reformation 09:21 The Role of Charismatic Leaders in Politics 12:10 Trump and the Evangelical Connection 15:09 The Seven Mountain Mandate and Its Implications 18:05 Cyrus Prophecy and Its Significance 21:14 The Divide Between Evangelical Elites and Grassroots 26:19 Theological Divides in Modern Evangelicalism 27:40 Historical Context of Evangelicalism 29:06 Populism and the Rise of Trump 31:29 Scriptural Interpretation and Prophecy 35:19 The Role of Modern Prophecy 38:33 Leadership Dynamics in Non-Denominational Spaces 43:41 Christian Nationalism vs. Christian Supremacy 46:35 The Early Church's Ethos vs. Modern Power 50:58 Path Forward for Evangelicals

What do Hollywood, Joan Didion, and the Bible have in common? More than you’d expect. In this episode, New York Times film critic and author Alissa Wilkinson joins Dru Johnson to discuss the life, work, and worldview of Joan Didion, one of the most influential American writers of the 20th century. Wilkinson’s new book, We Tell Ourselves Stories, explores how Didion made sense of chaos through narrative—and what her work reveals about faith, trauma, politics, and cultural memory. Together, Alissa and Dru explore Didion’s insight that stories are not just entertainment; they are survival mechanisms, tools we use to impose order on a chaotic world. But is that all Scripture is—just another human-made narrative? Wilkinson offers a careful reflection on the limits and power of storytelling, showing how Didion’s work can challenge both Christian belief and secular mythmaking. They also dive into conspiracy theories, the fusion of politics and Hollywood, and the rise of nostalgia as a cultural sickness. From John Wayne to 9/11 to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, this episode traces the invisible threads between the stories we inherit and the truths we cling to. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Exploring Joan Didion's Influence 02:10 The Chaos of Life and Storytelling 05:08 The Impact of California on Didion's Work 08:15 Didion's Perspective on Conspiracy Theories 11:24 Hollywood's Political Landscape and Didion's Critique 14:26 The Intersection of Politics and Entertainment 17:29 Didion's Views on Feminism and Fixed Ideas 20:26 The Role of Nostalgia in Storytelling 23:24 The Modern Political Narrative 26:17 Conspiracies and Their Impact on Society 29:27 The Nature of Truth in Storytelling 32:10 Didion's Legacy in Film and Media 35:20 The Future of Storytelling in Politics

Was wine in the Bible just a calorie source—or something far richer? In this fascinating conversation, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, author of The Mountain Shall Drip Sweet Wine: A Biblical Theology of Alcohol, joins Dru Johnson to explore how wine and alcohol shaped ancient Israel’s culture, theology, and imagination. Dr. Dunne traces how biblical wine reflected not only the scarcity and agricultural hopes of ancient life, but also a tradition of craftsmanship, connoisseurship, and divine blessing. Together they unpack why biblical wine wasn’t just functional—it was symbolic of abundance, peace, and God’s favor. From fermentation methods and ancient storage to the surprising case for white wine at the wedding at Cana, this episode challenges modern assumptions about alcohol in Scripture. Dunne explores why the biblical world viewed wine as inherently miraculous, why production was tied to the land promise, and how modern communion links us to Canaan’s terroir in unexpected ways. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:42 Christianity and Alcohol 02:52 Cultural Perspectives on Alcohol Consumption 06:01 Theological Implications of Alcohol in Scripture 08:58 Wine Production and Its Significance 12:00 The Craft of Winemaking in Ancient Times 14:57 Grapes: Beyond Wine Production 18:06 Environmental Factors in Viticulture 20:58 The Symbolism of Wine in Biblical Texts 22:06 The Importance of Climate in Winemaking 25:11 Exploring Ancient Grape Varieties 27:07 The Fermentation Process of Ancient Wines 35:04 The Significance of Jesus' First Miracle 45:10 Wine as a Connection to the Land

Is nationalism always bad—or does the Bible have a more nuanced view of nations, borders, and political life? In this fascinating episode, Israeli philosopher Yoram Hazony joins Dru Johnson to explore the political vision of the Old Testament, from the Table of Nations in Genesis to the prophetic hope of nations learning from Israel in peace. Hazony explains how the Bible’s anti-empire stance emerges from the stories of Babel, Assyria, and Babylon—and why God’s vision for humanity includes independent nations with borders, traditions, and space to seek Him freely. Together they unpack how Israel’s kingship, laws, and tribal structure offer a model of checks, balances, and moral limits on power. The conversation also tackles modern questions: What can Christians today learn from biblical nationalism? How does this compare with movements like Christian nationalism in the U.S.? And why does Hazony see so many modern Christian intellectuals missing the Old Testament’s political teachings? For more of Yoram's literature: https://www.yoramhazony.org/ https://x.com/yhazony We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Nationalism and the Bible 00:56 Biblical Foundations of National Identity 09:32 Political Philosophy in the Old Testament 12:43 Critiques of Nationalism in the Hebrew Bible 20:42 The Nature of Sin and Human Corruption 22:40 Nationalism and the Biblical Perspective 26:08 Borders and National Independence 40:01 Governance and the Role of Law 45:28 Christian Nationalism: Perspectives and Concerns

Is church just a place to think about God—or are we wired to worship together? In this groundbreaking episode, theologian Dr. Josh Cockayne and developmental psychologist Dr. Gideon Salter join Dru Johnson to explore how human beings are made for joint attention, and why gathering for worship is a deeply embodied, social necessity. Drawing from their book Why We Gather, the conversation unfolds how infants develop the skill of “joint attention”—the ability to notice something with someone else—and how this same capacity is essential to biblical worship, from Genesis to Revelation. They argue that worship isn’t merely cognitive or emotional—it’s communal, embodied, and neurologically formative. Togetherness isn’t a nice-to-have; it’s the foundation of how we know God and the world. From communion rituals and infant behavior to liturgical design and online church, the episode provides a practical, psychologically grounded, and theologically rich vision of church that challenges both individualism and shallow expressions of “community.” For their book "Why We Gather," see the publisher's website here: https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481322911/why-we-gather/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Worship and Individual Experience 02:59 The Role of the Body in Worship 06:02 Joint Attention and Its Importance 09:20 The Collaboration Between Psychology and Theology 12:12 Understanding Joint Attention in Worship 15:17 The Impact of Joint Attention on Community Worship 18:05 Liturgy and Joint Attention in Practice 21:09 Theological Implications of Joint Attention 24:04 Cultural Jointness and Worship 27:06 Conclusion and Reflections on Worship 27:42 Children's Participation in Church 28:42 Exploring Joint Attention in Liturgical Settings 30:57 The Role of Community in Worship 32:36 Understanding Jointness and Joint Attention 35:12 The Dynamics of Participation in Worship 36:18 Theological Perspectives on Joint Attention 38:12 The Biological and Social Aspects of Gathering 41:44 Critiques of Theoretical Frameworks in Worship

What gives someone the right to script your prayers? In this powerful conversation, Douglas McKelvey, author of the bestselling Every Moment Holy liturgical series, joins Dru Johnson to unpack the spiritual and theological journey behind his work. From a childhood steeped in neo-charismatic theology to a disillusioning college experience at Oral Roberts University, McKelvey shares how God used a profound unraveling—what many today might call “deconstruction”—to rebuild a biblically coherent faith through unexpected mentors and communities. Listeners learn how McKelvey became part of the Art House Foundation and later the Rabbit Room, drawing from the legacies of Francis Schaeffer, Edith Schaeffer, and Andrew Peterson to create a community of artists grounded in Scripture. Along the way, he opens up about the fear and trembling that should attend writing liturgies—and what it means to write prayers people will carry into their most vulnerable moments. This episode explores beauty, hospitality, ritual, and the theological integrity behind the words we say to God. Whether you're a liturgy lover, creative, or just someone seeking coherent theology after chaos, this is an episode that will stay with you. Learn more about the Art House and Rabbit Room here: https://www.arthousenashville.com/our-story https://www.rabbitroom.com/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to the Rabbit Room 02:22 The Evolution of the Rabbit Room 05:17 Community and Connection in the Rabbit Room 08:29 The Significance of Northwind Manor 11:31 Personal Journey and Theological Foundations 14:10 Navigating Doubt and Deconstruction 23:08 Charlie Peacock and the Art House Foundation 26:29 The Art House and Its Influence 31:04 The Physical Space of the Art House 34:20 Theological Foundations for Artists 36:33 Every Moment Holy: A Journey of Prayer 43:13 The Impact of Ritual in Prayer 50:43 Reflections on the Craft of Prayer 52:18 The Rabbit Room: A Hub for Creativity  

What if our biggest biblical misunderstandings come from reading the right words in the wrong way? In this episode, Old Testament scholar Dr. Andy Judd joins Dru Johnson to unravel the complex and often misused concept of genre in biblical interpretation. Drawing from his background in English literature and law, Dr. Judd explains how many theological debates, misreadings, and even dangerous interpretations arise not from misused Hebrew dictionaries—but from unspoken assumptions about genre. Why do readers assume Abraham’s behavior is exemplary? Why do sermons treat biblical laws like modern legal codes? Why do people interpret apocalyptic visions as historical predictions? From Genesis to Judges, Paul’s letters to Revelation, Judd shows that failing to ask, “What kind of text is this?” is often where interpretation goes off the rails. Blending humor, literary theory, and deep biblical insight, Judd offers practical ways to become better “travelers” in the ancient biblical world—learning to coordinate with texts the way we coordinate with traffic rules in a new country. Andy Judd's personal website can be found here: https://www.andyjudd.com/ We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:54 The Journey into Genre Studies 03:26 Misinterpretations and Conflicts in Biblical Genre 06:26 Understanding Narrative and Ethical Frameworks 10:18 The Role of Genre in Biblical Interpretation 12:39 Defining Genre: Conventions and Contexts 14:37 Cultural Contexts and Genre Navigation 18:35 The Boomerang Test: A Practical Approach to Genre 24:32 Deep Structures and Genre Regulation 28:08 Understanding Genre in Scripture 33:54 The Role of Genre in Biblical Interpretation 39:22 Biblical Law: A Unique Genre 43:56 The Social Function of Biblical Law 49:42 Wisdom and the Interpretation of Law

Is loving your family first a biblical idea—or a betrayal of Jesus’ call to love your neighbor? In this thought-provoking episode, Mike Tolliver—Executive Director of the Center for Hebraic Thought—joins Dru Johnson to explore his developing PhD thesis on Storge (family love), the kinsman-redeemer, and what biblical justice actually looks like. Drawing on Torah, philosophy, and early Christian texts, Mike argues that Storge love is not only natural—it’s essential to a functioning society, and that Israel’s family-based justice system was designed to eliminate categories like “orphan” and “widow.” He explores why Paul uses the metaphor of adoption—and not kinsman-redeemer—for Gentile inclusion, and why the Ten Commandments are saturated with family ethics. From Sophie's Choice-style sermon illustrations to questions about circumcision, baptism, and ethnic election, this episode unpacks the implications of what it means to love your kin without devaluing the stranger. As Mike prepares for PhD work, his big question is: What does rightly ordered family love look like in Scripture—and what happens when it gets misordered? We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Exploring Academic Pursuits and Career Paths 05:47 The Kinsman Redeemer: A Social Safety Net 14:35 Storge and Kinsman Redeemer in Biblical Context 19:54 Theological Implications of Kinship and Election 27:34 Exploring the Promise of Descendancy 29:03 Navigating the Path to a PhD 30:56 The Challenge of Proposal Writing 31:57 Understanding Storge in Hebraic Thought 39:07 The Role of Storge in the Ten Commandments 41:07 Stranger Love vs. Family Love 43:55 Moral Dilemmas in Love 49:56 The Future of Intergenerational Family Focus

What does it mean to call something “Christian music”? Nick Barré has spent decades in the music industry—from working at EMI with early Switchfoot to managing major names like Casting Crowns, KB, Brandon Heath, and more. In this 200th episode of The Biblical Mind, he joins Dru Johnson to reflect on the Christian music label, the tension between calling and category, and how artists navigate faith and fame. Nick argues that labeling music—or restaurants or plumbers—as “Christian” may do more harm than good. He shares why genre categories are a business necessity but spiritually unhelpful, and why the most important questions artists must answer are about calling, audience, and identity—not chart placement. From spiritual burnout to public affirmation, from the temptations of platform to the dangers of envy, Nick shares pastoral, industry-hardened wisdom on how to guide artists into longevity and spiritual wholeness. He even offers advice for aspiring Christian musicians—and what it really means to “show, not tell” when pursuing a creative calling. Nick Barre's Company "Proper Management" can be found here: https://www.propermanagement.net We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Defining Christian Music 03:11 The Evolution of Music Genres 06:10 Navigating the Music Industry 08:57 The Dangers of Labeling 12:09 The Role of Artists in Ministry 15:16 The Impact of Fame on Identity 18:24 Identifying Unique Gifts in Artists 25:41 Exploring Diverse Artist Portfolios 28:29 Navigating Hard Conversations in the Music Industry 31:05 Defining Success in the Arts 33:15 The Challenge of Artistic Compromise 37:06 Understanding Market Dynamics in Music 40:22 Fragmentation of the Music Industry 46:39 Advice for Aspiring Christian Artists

In this episode, Dr. Dru Johnson sits down with Matt Whitman, host of The Ten Minute Bible Hour, to explore why so many Christians—and skeptics—struggle with Scripture. Whitman shares what he’s learned from engaging millions online: people are often afraid to be wrong, shaped by graceless experiences in church and cancel culture in the wider world. The solution? Modeling curiosity, empathy, and intellectual humility. Whitman opens up about his own faith journey, the impact of church hurt, and why he makes space for disagreement and exploration in his content. From deconstructing popular biblical themes to highlighting the beauty of traditions outside his own, Matt argues that deep scriptural engagement thrives in environments where it’s okay not to have all the answers. Together, Dru and Matt delve into themes like biblical coherence, the importance of interpretive grace, and what it means to approach the Bible not as experts, but as learners. Their conversation models the very ethos they preach: thoughtful, generous dialogue rooted in the belief that God’s grace extends to our minds—not just our sins. For More of Matt Whitman and the Ten Minute Bible Hour: https://www.youtube.com/@UC3vIOVJiXigzVDA2TYqaa0Q https://www.facebook.com/thetenminutebiblehour https://www.instagram.com/tenminutebiblehour https://www.twitter.com/MattWhitmanTMBH https://www.threads.com/@mattwhitmantmbh We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:54 Resistance to the Bible and Church Experiences 04:57 Cultural Resistance and Historical Context 07:44 Navigating Hurt and Church Experiences 10:56 Empathy and Understanding in Conversations 14:21 Normalizing Being Wrong 17:20 Internal Cohesion in Christianity 25:38 Universal Themes in the Bible 32:44 Navigating Biblical Interpretation and Truth 35:43 The Complexity of Biblical Truth 37:55 The Pressure of Pastoral Performance 42:14 The Challenge of Authenticity in Teaching 45:32 Modeling Intellectual Grace and Humility 49:40 Creating a Gracious Learning Environment 53:16 The Nature of Knowledge and Learning in Faith

What happens when science, religion, and education collide? In this episode, Dr. Rachel Pear shares her remarkable journey from growing up in New York’s modern Orthodox Jewish community to researching how evolution is taught and received across Israeli society. A scholar of science education and prehistoric archaeology, Rachel discusses how Jewish, Christian, and Muslim communities in Israel grapple differently with the question of human origins. Why do some teachers avoid the topic altogether? Why do secular and religious students draw such hard lines around what’s “acceptable” to believe? And how do family, community, and national identity shape scientific acceptance? Rachel also shares her experience presenting three distinct rabbinic views on evolution in schools, showing students that Jewish thought isn’t monolithic—and that questioning is part of the tradition. She explores the cultural weight of science, the legacy of eugenics, and how educators can create space for real dialogue in science classrooms. Whether you’re an educator, a religious thinker, or just curious about how evolution meets identity, this episode offers a rich, honest look at a complex conversation that’s still evolving. We are listener supported. Give to the cause here: https://hebraicthought.org/give For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/hebraicthought/ X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Rachel's Journey 02:49 Exploring Prehistoric Archaeology and Cultural Contexts 05:48 The Intersection of Evolution and Religion 08:48 Cultural Perspectives on Evolution in Israel 11:57 The Role of Education in Science and Religion 14:57 Diverse Views on Evolution in Arab Schools 17:58 The Complexity of Science and Cultural Identity 20:50 Reflections on Science, Culture, and Religion 27:27 Navigating Values in Education 32:20 The Complexity of Teaching Evolution 35:53 Epistemology and the Scientific Method 40:51 Cultural Perspectives on Evolution 45:32 The Intersection of Tradition and Modernity