The Deep Thoughts Podcast with Matt Shantz

We are experiencing the largest and fastest religious shift in North American history. It is faster than the First and Second Great Awakenings and revivals combined, but in the opposite direction. It wouldn’t be a stretch to assume that everyone listening to this episode either has people in their lives who have left the church in recent years or you've left the church yourself. Jim Davis, co-author of The Great Dechurching, chats with Matt about the findings of their major research project that spawned the book, who’s leaving, why they’re going, and what it will take to bring them back. The findings and opportunities are more hopeful than you’d think! ABOUT Jim Davis (MDiv, Reformed Theological Seminary) is teaching pastor at Orlando Grace Church (Acts 29), and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. He is the host of the As In Heaven podcast and coauthor with Michael Graham of The Great Dechurching: Who’s Leaving, Why Are They Going, and What Will It Take to Bring Them Back?. He and his wife, Angela, speak for Family Life’s Weekend to Remember marriage getaways.

The issue of gender has roared onto the scene so quickly, the concept has evolved so rapidly, the level of importance deemed so integral, that you would be hard-pressed to find a more pressing, confusing and divisive subject. Enter Dr. Abigail Favale. Her book, The Genesis of Gender is insightful, wise and timely. Abigail is an expert in areas of post-modernity, gender studies, and feminism and her radical re-conversion to Christianity has led her to take everything she has learned about gender and apply it through the lens of the Bible.  ABOUT Abigail is a writer and professor whose work lies at the intersection of Catholic theology, literature, and women’s studies. Her abiding interest as a writer and scholar is the meaning and dignity of woman, and her work explores sexual difference and embodiment in the Catholic imagination. She holds a concurrent appointment in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame, where she teaches on topics like Edith Stein’s Theology of Woman and Religion & Literature. Abigail has a bachelor's degree in philosophy from George Fox University, as well as a master's degree in Women, Writing and Gender and a Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. She is the author of multiple books including, Into the Deep: An Unlikely Catholic Conversion (Cascade 2018) and The Genesis of Gender: A Christian Theory, which was published in 2022 and has already been translated into multiple languages. She lives with her husband, Michael, and their four children in South Bend, Indiana.

Andrew Wilson joins the podcast for a wide-ranging conversation about special needs, the case for eucharistic and charismatic worship in the life of the church, and why the year 1776 was such a big deal and how the West is now post-Christian because of it. ABOUT Andrew Wilson (PhD, King’s College London) is the teaching pastor at King’s Church London and a columnist for Christianity Today. He’s the author of several books, including the three they talk about in this episode: Remaking the World, Spirit and Sacrament, and The Life We Never Expected. He’s a part of the Mere Fidelity podcast, co-hosts the “Post-Christianity?” podcast with Glen Scrivener, and regularly writes on the Think Theology website. Andrew is married to Rachel and they have three children: Zeke, Anna and Samuel. He is also a great follow on X/Twitter.

Statistically, only about 9% of those who make New Years Resolutions actually complete them, with the vast majority of people failing within the first week and month. David Mathis refers to the spiritual disciplines of Bible reading, prayer, and commitment to a local church as habits of grace and asserts that they are paramount for relationship with and enjoyment of Jesus. As we embark on a new year, resolve to know and enjoy Jesus through these habits of grace. In this episode Matt sits down with David Mathis to talk about leadership in the church (6:30 mark) and habits of grace (31:00 mark). ABOUT David Mathis serves as senior teacher and executive editor at desiringGod.org, a pastor at Cities Church in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and an adjunct professor at Bethlehem College & Seminary in Minneapolis. He and his wife, Megan, have four children. He is the author of several books, including the two talked about in this episode: Habits of Grace: Enjoying Jesus through the Spiritual Disciplines and Workers For Your Joy: The Call of Christ on Christian Leaders.

The nativity stories from the gospels of Matthew and Luke are familiar to everyone. Baby Jesus in a manger, Mary and Joseph, the little town of Bethlehem, the shepherds, and wise men. We’re less familiar with Revelation’s nativity story found in chapter 12 that includes a seven-headed dragon. But it is one of the Bible’s telling of the Christmas story nonetheless. In this brief episode Matt explains why this cosmic Christmas story is worth including in your nativity.

Today we’re told to be true to ourselves, look within for answers, and follow our hearts. But when we put our own happiness first, we experience record-breaking levels of aimlessness, loneliness, depression, and anxiety. In Don’t Follow Your Heart, Thaddeus Williams debunks the “ten commandments of self-worship” and points to a life beyond the self-defeating dogmas of self-worship to a more meaningful life centred on Someone infinitely more interesting, satisfying, and awesome than ourselves. Thaddeus Williams is back on the podcast, this time to tell us not to follow our hearts but to follow God’s heart!  ABOUT Thaddeus J. Williams (Ph.D., Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam) loves enlarging students’ understanding and enjoyment of Jesus at Biola University in La Mirada, CA, where he serves as associate professor of Systematic Theology for Talbot School of Theology. His previous appearance on Deep Thoughts, to talk about Confronting Injustice Without Compromising Truth (episode 36) is one of the podcast’s most popular episodes. He has also taught Philosophy and Literature at Saddleback College, Jurisprudence at Trinity Law School, and as a lecturer in Worldview Studies at L’Abri Fellowships in Switzerland and Holland, and Ethics for Blackstone Legal Fellowship the Federalist Society in Washington D.C. He resides in Orange County, CA with his wife and four kids.

Let’s face it: When people complain that masculinity is toxic, they often point to evangelical men as their prime example. But findings from the social sciences debunk those charges. Research shows that committed Christian men who attend church regularly test out as the most loving and engaged husbands and fathers. These facts show that Christianity has the power to overcome toxic behaviour in men and reconcile the sexes—an unexpected finding that has stood up to rigorous empirical testing. We should be bold in bringing it into the public square. In her new book, The Toxic War on Masculinity: How Christianity Reconciles the Sexes, Professor Pearcey explains how secularism has villainized the concept of masculinity and how Christian men shatter the negative stereotypes. ABOUT Nancy Pearcey is the author of The Toxic War on Masculinity: How Christianity Reconciles the Sexes, as well as Love Thy Body, The Soul of Science, Saving Leonardo, Finding Truth, and Total Truth. She is professor and scholar in residence at Houston Christian University. She has been quoted in The New Yorker and Newsweek, highlighted as one of the five top women apologists by Christianity Today, and hailed in The Economist as "America's pre-eminent evangelical Protestant female intellectual."

Evangelicals are known today for culture-wars, politics, conspiracy theories, and moral failures as much or more as the historic pillars of evangelical identity. In this brief episode Matt defines evangelicalism and explores how we might get that clear and compelling evangelical vision back. ABOUTMatt Shantz is the Lead Pastor of Central Community Church, a vibrant multi-generational church that meets across 5 campuses in the beautiful eastern Fraser Valley, BC Canada.Matt loves to introduce people to Jesus, teach the Bible, and raise up the whole church to be ministers of the gospel.

Unclear on God’s purpose for the family? This episode is for you! In 2012 Jefferson Bethke released a spoken word video to YouTube called, “Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus” that went viral and changed his life forever. Viewed over 35 million times and followed up with New York Times bestseller, Jesus > Religion, now Jeff and his wife Alyssa have written a number of books and lead a number of ministries, including Family Teams, which they talk about with Matt in this episode. Alyssa and Matt are in a Western Seminary Global Masters Cohort together. Apparently Jeff was in the same cohort years ago but unlike Alyssa and Matt, he’s a quitter. Alyssa is the author of Satisfied, and together they’ve written, Love That Lasts and others. Jeff and Alyssa live in Maui, which was hit this summer with the deadliest wildfire in the US in over 100 years. For ways you can help right now and provide resources for those in need—go to hopechapelmaui.com  ABOUT Alyssa Bethke is a mother of three children, Kinsley, Kannon, and Lucy, and a dog named Aslan. She and her husband, Jeff Bethke, live in Maui, and are bloggers, YouTubers, and hosts of The Real-Life podcast. Alyssa is the author of  Satisfied and together with Jeff wrote, Love That Lasts. They are passionate about encouraging and strengthening families at familyteams.com, an online initiative equipping families to live as a multigenerational team on mission. They live in Maui with their daughters, Kinsley and Lucy, and son, Kannon.Jefferson Bethke is the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus > Religion and It’s Not What You Think. To say hi or to learn more, go to jeffandalyssa.com

What do we do with passages in the Bible that are strange or even troubling? Matt talks a bit about that while unpacking one of the weirdest stories in the Bible: A couple bears mauling a bunch of boys. This brief ‘A Deep Thought’ episode is a summary of a sermon he preached entitled, A Grizzly Scene, from 2 Kings 2.

Matt unpacks the parables of the treasure and pearl of great price and the astounding reality that Jesus treasures us. This brief ‘A Deep Thought’ episode is a summary of a sermon he preached entitled, Treasure Jesus, from Matthew 13:44-46.

You asked some seriously deep questions and Matt has tried his best to answer them in this Q&A episode. Do you think Abraham and Isaac had a conversation before he tied him up as an offering? [2:45] What is the stance on marijuana use as Christians? Many conversations about this lately. [7:05] What should we make of the Gift of Tongues in the church today? [10:00] What will the church look like in 10 years? [18:45] How do we know if feelings come from God or if we need freedom from that? [24:45] What does the Bible say about the souls of those who commit suicide? [27:50] (*a factor not interacted with directly in responding to the question is the dynamic that most suicides are related to psychiatric disease, with depression, substance use disorders and psychosis being the most relevant. If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal ideations please call Talk Suicide Canada: 1.833.456.4566) What does it look like to respond like Jesus when a transgender person wants to join our life group? [32:00] How can we be truly happy in heaven if we know loved ones are in hell? Seems selfish. [39:00] What are we to make of John 7:53-8:11 and its Canonicity? [43:10] Is what we have today, splinters of faith traditions around the globe, really God’s intent? [50:30]

Matt shares 6 common excuses that he thinks keep many of us from participating in the Mission of Jesus — and shows how the commission Jesus has given us nullifies every last one of those excuses. This brief A Deep Thought episode is a summary of a sermon he preached entitled, Christians Make Disciples, Not Excuses. The 6 excuses that keep us from participating in the mission of Jesus: 1. The task is too great 2. I’m not qualified 3. I’m not the type 4. I don’t feel called 5. I don’t have the resources 6. What if they say “No”?

More than 360 million Christians face high levels of persecution and discrimination for their faith in Jesus. Jared Vander Meulen from Open Doors Canada joins Matt to talk about what severe persecution looks like in the most difficult countries in the world to be a Christian and what Christians in the West can do to support them. This conversation is humbling, inspiring, heavy, and will equip you to pray effectively for our persecuted brothers and sisters in Christ. ABOUT Open Doors Canada is a ministry that seeks to strengthen Christians where faith costs the most. As promised, here are links to the resources we referenced in the episode:  The World Watch List, Sahar’s story on persecution and gender, and the Prayer resources.

Matt had Joshua Ryan Butler back on the podcast to talk about his latest book, Beautiful Union. About 48 hours after Matt’s interview with Josh in early March, a social media firestorm erupted when an excerpt of Beautiful Union was released on The Gospel Coalition website (that has since been removed). Pushback about Josh’s unpacking of the biblical analogy between Christ and the Church came swift and strong, some calling it dangerous and others simply calling it gross. The uncharitable way in which people lambasted Josh aside, Matt believes that the evangelical church has a lot to learn from a more robust (and beautiful) theology of sex. So give it a listen and let us know what you think! ABOUT Joshua Ryan Butler is the author of Beautiful Union, The Pursuing God, The Skeletons in God’s Closet, and co-author of the forthcoming The Party Crasher. He loves shifting paradigms, to help people who wrestle with tough topics of the Christian faith by confronting popular caricatures and replacing them with the real thing. He has served as a Lead Pastor of Redemption, Tempe for the last number of years. You can find out more about Josh and his ministry here. Matt refers to an episode of the Theology in the Raw podcast that can be found here.

Conversations around human sexuality are some of the most sensitive and complex in our culture today and around the church more specifically. Sam Allberry is a celibate, same-sex-attracted pastor/theologian who has written extensively and spoken all over the world on these topics. In this conversation, Matt chats with Sam Allberry about the tenth anniversary edition of Is God-Anti Gay? and 7 Myths About Singleness. Is God Anti-Gay? is a sensitive exploration of the Bible’s teaching on sexuality that's been written to help both Christians and non-Christians struggling with the Bible's teaching on this issue, and how the gospel is good news for everyone, whatever their sexual orientation. In  7 Myths About Singleness, Sam seeks to help Christians—married and unmarried alike—value singleness as a gift from God so that we can all encourage singles to take hold of the unique opportunities their singleness affords and see their role in the flourishing of the church as a whole. ABOUT Sam Allberry is a pastor, apologist, author and speaker. He speaks throughout the world at conferences, has recently transitioned from pastoring in the UK to a church in Nashville, TN, co-hosts a podcast with Ray Ortlund called, You’re Not Crazy: Gospel Sanity for Young Pastors, is a Canon Theologian for the Anglican Church in North America, is a Senior Fellow at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics, and was named a Fellow at the recently launched Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. He is the author of a number of books, including Is God Anti-Gay?; What God Has to Say About Our Bodies; Why Does God Care Who I Sleep With?; 7 Myths about Singleness; a commentary on the Book of James; and Why Bother With Church?

Here we go! We’re fascinated by the supernatural. Ghost stories, shows like Stranger Things, super hero movies with villains of cosmic proportions all intrigue us. But when it comes to the spiritual realm that the Bible describes we tend to either ignore that reality completely or have an unhealthy obsession with it. While we need not spend much time thinking about Satan and the demonic (far better to fixate on Jesus than the devil), it is important to have a biblical understanding of Satan, demons, and spiritual warfare. So Matt gets Dr. Gerry Breshears on the line to fill us in. Links referenced in the episode: Live No Lies (John Mark Comer); 3 Crucial Questions About Spiritual Warfare (Clint Arnold); Gerry Breshears resources ABOUT Dr. Gerry Breshears has been Professor of Theology at Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon for over 40 years, served on the board and as consultant for the Bible Project, trained and mentored countless Christian leaders, co-wrote Doctrine, Death By Love, and A Gracious Theology (forthcoming) and speaks at conferences such as Exiles in Babylon this March.

In any given year, 1 in 5 Canadians experiences a mental illness. By the time Canadians reach 40 years of age, 1 in 2 have – or have had – a mental illness (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, 2022). What does God and the Bible say about mental illness and how can we make churches places where those who struggle with mental health conditions are welcomed, understood, nurtured, and supported: a foretaste of the new creation. Matt interviews Helen Thorne, Director of Training and Resources at Biblical Counselling UK and co-author of the new book, Mental Health and Your Church. *If you are struggling in your mental health, please reach out to your local church, a loved one, or reach out to Talk Suicide Canada or CASP to speak with someone right away. ABOUT Helen Thorne is Director of Training and Resources at Biblical Counselling UK. She formerly worked with the London City Mission and has written Hope in an Anxious World: 6 Truths For When Things Feel Overwhelming; Purity is Possible: How To Live Free of the Fantasy Trap; Walking with Domestic Abuse Sufferers; and 5 Things to Pray for Your City: Prayers That Change Things For Your Church, Community, and Culture. Mental Health and Your Church: A Handbook for Biblical Care with co-author, Dr. Steve Midgley releases March 1, 2023.

A Deep Thought is a concise episode on a particular aspect of the Christian faith that we sprinkle in between full-length episodes. This one's on Faith & Politics and is a sermon Matt did at Central Community Church in the summer of 2021, entitled “Shaped By The Gospel: Politics". It serves as a helpful follow up and compliment to episode 72 and is something of "a theology of politics". It is not a partisan pitch but a vision for engaging politics Christianly.

In this episode Matt sits down with former Member of Parliament Chuck Strahl to talk about Faith & Politics. ABOUT Chuck Strahl was elected to the House of Commons in 1993 and was re-elected in 6 consecutive elections before retiring from Parliament. He filled a number of Parliamentary roles while in Opposition from 1993 to 2006, including House Leader and Deputy Speaker. Upon Stephen Harper’s Conservatives winning the election, he served in several senior roles including Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, and Minister of Transport and Infrastructure. Chuck is a man of deep conviction and faith, resides in Chilliwack (where Matt lives & Pastor) and is an elder in his church. *Disclaimer: There is no partisan agenda here. While Chuck was a Conservative Party MP, his experience as a politician and man of faith is what makes him the ideal guest for this subject matter.