The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comKaren is a tech journalist and leads the Pulitzer Center’s AI Spotlight Series — a program that trains journalists on how to cover AI. She was a senior editor for AI at MIT Technology Review and a reporter for the WSJ covering Chinese and US tech companies. Her first book is Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI — the most accessible and readable narrative of the rise of AI.For two clips of our convo — on the environmental impact of AI, and its threats to democracy — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised by two computer scientists; her mechanical engineering at MIT; the birth of AI at Dartmouth; IBM Watson on Jeopardy!; how the internet made data cheap to collect; the junk info swept into AI; massive data centers; ideology driving the AI industry more than science; ChatGPT; the networking and fundraising skills of Sam Altman; his family scandal; his near ouster at OpenAI; the AI bubble and propping up 401(k)s; the threat to white-collar jobs; the brutal conditions of AI work in developing countries; Chinese authoritarianism and DeepSeek; the illiberalizing effect of Silicon Valley; Musk and Thiel; how the IDF uses AI against Hamas; autonomous weapons; how AI has done wonders with Pharma; transhumanism; chatbot safety for kids; Pope Leo’s tech warnings; and AI as the ultimate apple in the Garden of Eden.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, Fiona Hill on Putin’s war, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comCharles is a writer, social scientist, and longtime friend. He currently holds the F.A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. His many books include Losing Ground, The Bell Curve (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein), Coming Apart, Facing Reality, and Human Diversity (which we discussed on the Dishcast in 2021). His new book is Taking Religion Seriously. If you think you know who Charles is from the way the MSM has described him for years, this conversation may surprise.For two clips of our convo — on how science has revived old ideas of God over the past several decades, and the connection between psychedelics and agape — head to our YouTube page. (Charles is the second guest we’ve had who has come out as an LSD experimenter on the show; Rod Dreher was the other one.)Other topics: how Charles lived for decades without a “God-sized hole”; the security and comfort of modern life; when death and suffering was far more common; the 24/7 distractions of today; meditation retreats; Charles learning TM in Thailand; Quakerism and his wife Catherine’s discovery that she loved her child “more than evolution requires”; how religiosity falls on a bell curve; my Irish grandmother’s faith; “why is there something rather than nothing?”; the Big Bang and fine-tuning; logos; multiverses; the materialism of Dawkins et al; the evolutionary role of religion; CS Lewis; the Golden Rule; pure altruism; the transcendence in nature; near-death experiences; dementia and terminal lucidity; consciousness outside the brain; the soul; the collective consciousness in Buddhism; the strange details of the Gospels; the feminism of Jesus; the adulteress he saved; how grace is contagious; the Nativity; crucifixion and the Resurrection; the Jefferson Bible; the sacraments; the doubt in faith; Oakeshott; “Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs”; my HIV diagnosis; theodicy; Camus; TS Eliot; transhumanism, and the boredom of too much life.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMichael is a media critic and author. He’s been a columnist for New York magazine, Vanity Fair, British GQ, the Hollywood Reporter, and the Guardian. Among his many books include four on Donald Trump — the third one we covered on the Dishcast, and the latest was All or Nothing: How Trump Recaptured America. He also co-hosts the podcast “Inside Trump’s Head.”For two clips of our convo — on Trump’s closest lackeys, and examples of the best resistance to Trump — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: lawfare as central to spurring Trump to run again; his epic comeback after losing in 2020; retribution; Michael’s dinner with Donald and Melania; the near assassination and “Fight!”; 14 years as a reality TV star; his brilliant campaign stop at McDonald’s; how he met Epstein; their obsession with young models; Karoline Leavitt morphing into a model; the cold arrangement of his marriage to Melania; Ghislaine Maxwell; Bill Clinton; how Trump treats female aides; Lindsey Halligan and the Comey indictment; Susie Wiles; Trump’s surprising pick of Vance; his reluctant choice of Pence; Jared Kushner; Stephen Miller and targeting judges; Don Jr and crypto corruption; Musk’s fundraising; January 6; McConnell’s chance to remove Trump; Trump’s strange deference to Netanyahu; the MAGA fissures over Israel and Epstein; the Mossad conspiracy over Kirk; Tucker 2028; Hegseth’s speech to the generals; sending troops into US cities; Trump’s visit with King Charles; Jerome Powell’s backbone; the law firms, universities, and news outlets that caved; Mamdani; the legendary luck of Trump; and what he might do if Dems take back the House.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Charles Murray on finding religion, Karen Hao on AI, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comKatie is a journalist, podcaster, and longtime friend of the Dish. She’s a former staff writer at The Stranger, and she’s contributed to The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Free Press, and The Weekly Dish. She hosts the podcast “Blocked and Reported” alongside Jesse Singal, and she just wrote her first book, Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol.For two clips of our convo — how Katie’s drinking became a problem, and why naltrexone isn’t widely known — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised in western Carolina; Katie’s first drink; studying abroad in England for the lower drinking age; Churchill’s boozing; pub culture in the UK; being energized by alcohol vs sedated; chasing the buzz; the cycle of denial; the AA notion that one drink is too many; how rats react to alcohol; the parallels with Ozempic; why I started smoking weed; Ken Burns on Prohibition; the founder of AA; the belladonna and antabuse treatments; the Sinclair Method; why Mormons are so great; why Gen Z is drinking less; Covid alcoholism; the unsightly effects of booze; drinking in secret; the shame of addiction; PrEP; the meth crisis among gays; the high rates of lesbian divorce; Nancy Mace and Megyn Kelly going radical; the belief that recovery should be hard and medication is cheating; AA’s hold on the legal system; opioids; and the massive death toll of alcohol.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on AI, Charles Murray on finding religion, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comWesley is an essayist and podcaster. He’s written extensively for Tablet, Esquire, and New York Magazine, and many of his essays were compiled in a book, The Souls of Yellow Folk. More of his writing and podcasting can be found on his substack, “Year Zero.” He’s been chronicling the gender revolution aspect of the successor ideology on X these past few years — and he eloquently lets rip in this conversation.For two clips of our convo — on the violence that can spring from trans ideology, and the paralysis of Dems on trans issues — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: his lifelong musical talent; getting a song on Gilmore Girls; Judith Butler and critical gender theory; postmodernism vs nature; Germaine Greer and TERFs; the woke targeting Chimamanda Adichie; tomboys and effeminate boys; fearing puberty; Jazz Jennings; the Dutch protocol and gatekeeping; the gray market of puberty blockers and HRT; Planned Parenthood; gender identity as “mystical”; adults unable to pass; Chase Strangio against gay marriage; autism; the surge of girls seeking transition; Tumblr and social contagion; the suicide canard; the “cisfag” slur; women’s shelters; Tavistock; the Cass Review; Hannah Barnes’ Time to Think; JK Rowling; Labour backpedaling; the NC bathroom bill and corporate boycotts; Dave Chappelle; Eric Adams’ working-class defense of sexed bathrooms; Mamdani; Newsom and fairness in sports; detransitioners; Charlie Kirk; the Minneapolis killer Robin Westman; Zizians; authoritarian vs totalitarian; MLK envy; the empty promises of Dem leaders; the private regret of parents; and how trans ideology helped Trump.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on AI, Michel Paradis on Ike, Charles Murray on finding religion, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJohn is a journalist, media consultant, old friend, and George W Bush’s cousin. He’s worked for NBC News as a political analyst and the Boston Globe as a columnist. In 2016, he launched a morning brief called “News Items” for News Corp, and later it became the Wall Street Journal CEO Council’s morning newsletter. News Items jumped to Substack in 2019 (and Dishheads can subscribe now for 33% off). John also co-hosts two podcasts — one with Joe Klein (“Night Owls”) and the other with Richard Haas (“Alternate Shots”).For two clips of our convo — on the nail-biting Bush-Gore race that John was involved in, and Trump’s mental decline — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: born and raised in Concord; his political awakening at 15 watching the whole '68 Dem convention with a fever in bed; his fascination with Nixon; the Southern Strategy; Garry Wills’ book Nixon Agonistes; Kevin Phillips and populism; Nixon parallels with Trump — except shame; Roger Ailes starting Fox News; Matt Drudge; John’s uncle HW Bush; HW as a person; the contrasts with his son Dubya; the trauma of 9/11; Iraq as a war of choice — the wrong one; Rumsfeld; Jeb Bush in 2016; the AI race; Geoffrey Hinton (“the godfather of AI”); John’s optimism about China; tension with Taiwan; Israel’s settlements; Bibi’s humiliation of Obama; Huckabee as ambassador; the tariff case going to SCOTUS; the Senate caving to Trump; McConnell failing to bar Trump; the genius of his demagoguery; the Kirk assassination; Brexit; immigration under Boris; Reform’s newfound dominance; the huge protest in London last week; Kirk’s popularity in Europe; the AfD; Trump’s war on speech; a Trump-Mamdani showdown; Epstein and Peter Mandelson; and grasping for reasons to be cheerful.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Wesley Yang on the trans question, Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, Michel Paradis on Ike, Charles Murray on finding religion, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJill is a writer and scholar. She’s a professor of American history at Harvard, a professor of law at Harvard Law, and a staff writer at The New Yorker. She’s also the host of the podcast “X-Man: The Elon Musk Origin Story.” Her many books include These Truths: A History of the United States (which I reviewed for the NYT in 2017) and her new one, We the People: A History of the U.S. Constitution — out in a few days; pre-order now.For two clips of our convo — on FDR’s efforts to bypass the Constitution, and the worst amendment we’ve had — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised by public school teachers near Worcester; dad a WWII vet; her struggles with Catholicism as a teen (and my fundamentalism then); joining ROTC; the origins of the Constitution; the Enlightenment; Locke; Montesquieu; the lame Articles of Confederation; the 1776 declaration; Paine’s Common Sense; Madison; Jefferson; Hamilton; Adams; New England town meetings; state constitutional conventions; little known conventions by women and blacks; the big convention in Philly and its secrecy; the slave trade; the Three-Fifths Clause; amendment provisions; worries over mob rule; the Electoral College; jury duty; property requirements for voting; the Jacksonian Era; Tocqueville; the Civil War; Woodrow Wilson; the direct election of senators; James Montgomery Beck (“Mr Constitution”); FDR’s court-packing plan; Eleanor’s activism; Prohibition and its repeal; the Warren Court; Scalia; executive orders under Trump; and gauging the intent of the Founders.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: John Ellis on Trump’s mental health, Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, Charles Murray on religion, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comNiall is one of my oldest and dearest friends, stretching back to when we were both history majors and renegade rightists at Magdalen, Oxford. He is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and a senior faculty fellow of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard. He’s also the founder and managing director of Greenmantle LLC, an advisory firm. He’s written 16 books, including Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist and Doom: The Politics of Catastrophe (which we discussed on the pod in 2021), and he writes a column for The Free Press.For two clips of our convo — a historical view of Trump’s authoritarianism, and the weakness of Putin toward Ukraine — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: attending Niall’s 60th birthday party in Wales with an all-male choir; Covid; Cold War II; China’s surprisingly potent tech surge; the race for semiconductors and AI; Taiwan; global fertility; Brexit; the explosion of migrants under Boris and Biden; the collapse of the Tories; Reform rising; Yes Minister; assimilation in the UK; grooming gangs; the failure of “crushing” sanctions on Russia; the war’s shift toward drones; Putin embraced by Xi and Modi; Trump’s charade in Alaska; debating Israel and Gaza; the strike on Iran; the Abraham Accords; the settlements; America becoming less free; Trump’s “emergencies”; National Guard in DC; the groveling of the Cabinet; the growth of executive power over many presidents; Trump’s pardons; Kissinger; tariffs and McKinley; the coming showdown with SCOTUS; Jack Goldsmith’s stellar work; Mamdani; Stephen Miller’s fascism; the unseriousness of Hegseth; the gerrymandering crisis; the late republic in Rome; Tom Holland’s Rubicon; Niall’s X spat with Vance; Harvard’s race discrimination; Biden re-electing Trump; wokeness; and South Park saving the republic.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jill Lepore on the history of the Constitution, Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, Charles Murray on religion, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMy old and dear friend Johann has written four bestsellers: Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs, Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression, Stolen Focus: Why You Can’t Pay Attention (discussed on the Dishcast here), and Magic Pill: The Extraordinary Benefits and Disturbing Risks of the New Weight-Loss Drugs (discussed here). His upcoming book is about the tunnels below Las Vegas.Four years ago we aired a 2012 interview that Johann did with me — in two parts, here and here. In this new episode we cover: my first time doing shrooms — in Amsterdam with Matt and Trey; the perversion of many Germans; my first MDMA trip in the early ‘90s; fleeing rave parties to contemplate God; a disastrous trip I experienced when Johann was present — which he calls “a dystopian version of Fawlty Towers”; ego death; Michael Pollan’s How to Change Your Mind; Roland Griffiths; Johann’s psychedelic theory about A Passage to India; how religious peeps integrate bad trips better than non-believers; how early HIV drugs affected a psychedelic trip; feeling agape on drugs; why psychedelics often don’t affect monks and nuns very much; the 15 minutes I believed that God is evil; my mom’s mental illness; the adolescent event that made me a conservative; equity in education; my teenage years in The History Boys; growing up with Keir Starmer; his wild days; our frenemy debates; the Oxford Union; my introversion; coming to America; identity politics; what Foucault got right; Virtually Normal; the Dish blog covering Obama 2008 and the Green Revolution; the indy Dish in 2013; retiring the blog after my doctor said it might kill me; the BLM summer and getting fired from New York mag; Milo Yiannopoulos; Tucker Carlson; Hitchens; The Conservative Soul; Johann prodding about my sex life; Truman; and what I want to achieve in the third trimester of my life. I apologize for TMI.Chris and I are both now enjoying a summer respite from the news and work. Hope all Dishheads are able to get some time to do the same. Perspective is so critical right now, and our culture is designed to obliterate it. See you when the new season debuts at the end of August.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comScott is a war correspondent and author. His non-fiction books include Lawrence in Arabia, Fractured Lands, and The Quiet Americans, and his novels include Triage and Moonlight Hotel. He’s also a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine. His new book is King of Kings: The Iranian Revolution: A Story of Hubris, Delusion and Catastrophic Miscalculation.For two clips of our convo — on Jimmy Carter’s debacle with the Shah, and the hero of the Iran hostage crisis — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in East Asia and traveling the world; his father the foreign service officer; their time in Iran not long before the revolution; Iran a “chew toy” between the British and Russian empires; the Shah’s father’s affinity for Nazi Germany; Mosaddegh’s move to nationalize the oil; the 1953 coup; the police state under the Shah; having the world’s 5th biggest military; the OPEC embargo; the rise of Khomeini and his exile; the missionary George Braswell and the mullahs; Carter's ambitious foreign policy; the US grossly overestimating the Shah; selling him arms; Kissinger; the cluelessness of the CIA; the prescience of Michael Metrinko; the Tabriz riots; students storming the US embassy; state murder under Khomeini dwarfing the Shah’s; the bombing of Iran’s nuke facilities; and Netanyahu playing into Hamas’ hands.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: a fun chat with Johann Hari, Jill Lepore on the history of the Constitution, Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, and Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comShannon is a civil rights attorney, most notably as the lead counsel for same-sex couples in the landmark marriage case in California. He’s currently the legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, where he is leading several federal court challenges to the trans military ban and other new federal policies targeting transgender people.I’ve long tried to find an interlocutor on the new radical direction of trans activism and its hostile takeover of the gay rights movement. Shannon was the first to agree, and we got along great. In some areas, we strongly agree; in others, we strongly disagree; but we can talk and not hate each other. If we want to restore liberal democracy, this is the way.For two clips of our convo — on the new “conversion therapy,” and how trans activists need to adopt persuasion as a tactic — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: his “awesome” childhood in rural East Texas; hunting and fishing all the time; his Methodist church; his terrible adolescence with gender dysphoria; the evangelical teacher who mentored him; his unlikely path to practicing law; helping teens after conversion therapy; coming out as lesbian; becoming a trans man in his 30s; the “It Gets Better” project; gay Mormons; the ghetto approach of queer activism; the AIDS crisis; Virtually Normal; Bush and the Federal Marriage Amendment; Evan Wolfson; the California marriage case and Prop 8; Edie Windsor; when trans weddings were legal and gay ones weren’t; “nonbinary” and “genderfluid”; affirmation-only vs. watchful waiting; the suicide canard; Chase Strangio; autism; detransitioners; Tavistock; the Cass Review; puberty blockers; the Dutch Protocol; Johanna Olson-Kennedy and her closed clinic; Marci Bowers and lost orgasm; Rachel Levine’s politicization; fairness in sports; Sarah McBride; Shannon losing and regaining his religion; and moving back to his tiny hometown in Texas with his wife.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution, Jill Lepore on the history of the Constitution, Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, and Johann Hari interviewing me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comTara Zahra is a writer and academic. She’s currently the Hanna Holborn Gray Professor of East European History at the University of Chicago. This week we discuss her latest book, Against the World: Anti-Globalism and Mass Politics Between the World Wars.For two clips of our convo — on the starving of Germany during and after WWI, and what Henry Ford and Trump have in common — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in the Poconos; her parents’ butcher shop; ballet her first career goal; her undergrad course on fascism that inspired grad school; how the Habsburg Dynasty was the EU before the EU; the golden age of internationalism; cutting off trade and migration during WWI; the Spanish flu; the Russian Revolution; pogroms across Europe; scapegoating Jews over globalization and finance; the humiliation at Versailles; Austria-Hungary chopped up and balkanized; Ellis Island as a detention center; massive inflation after the war; the Klan in the 1920s; Keynes; the Great Depression and rise of fascism; mass deportations in the US; autarky; Hitler linking that self-reliance to political freedom; Lebensraum; anti-Semitism; the Red Scare; the WTO and China; the 2008 crash; Trump’s tariff threats; rare earths; reshoring; fracking and energy independence; MAHA; Elon Musk and Henry Ford; Mars as Musk’s Lebensraum; and the longing for national identity.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: trans activist Shannon Minter debating trans issues, Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comTom is a novelist, essayist, and critic, who once described himself as a “supposed literary intellectual/homosexual/Republican.” He’s the former literary editor of GQ and a professor emeritus of English at GW. He’s the author of 11 books of fiction, including Up With the Sun, Dewey Defeats Truman, and Fellow Travelers — which was adapted into a miniseries. His nonfiction has focused on plagiarism (Stolen Words), letters (Yours Ever), and the Kennedy assassination (Mrs. Paine’s Garage). His new book is The Very Heart of It: New York Diaries, 1983-1994.For two clips of our convo — on the “mixed marriages” of the AIDS crisis, and Hitchens before cancel culture — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: his struggling middle-class family on Long Island; his dad a WWII vet; neither parent finished high school — and Tom went to Harvard for his PhD; the Space Race; when you could make a good living as a freelance writer; novelist Mary McCarthy as a formative influence; Capote; Vidal; Mailer; Updike; Orwell and clarity in writing; the Danish cartoonists; the Jacob Epstein plagiarism scandal; Martin Amis; Elizabeth Hardwick; Tom’s conservatism; the New Deal as a buffer against socialism; the anti-Communism of Catholics; Bobby Kennedy; leftist utopianism on campus; Bill Buckley; AIDS bringing America out of the closet; losing a boyfriend to the disease; the fear of an HIV test; the medieval symptoms; the deadly perils of dating; the dark humor; writing Virtually Normal thinking I would die; the miracle drugs; survivor’s guilt; advocating for gay marriage; its relatively quick acceptance; and Tom’s husband of 36 years who’s had HIV for more than three decades.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, trans activist Shannon Minter debating trans issues, Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comEd is the US national editor and columnist at the Financial Times. Before that, he was the FT’s Washington Bureau chief, the South Asia bureau chief, Capital Markets editor, and Philippines correspondent. During the Clinton administration, he was the speechwriter for Larry Summers. The author of many books, his latest is Zbig: The Life and Times of Brzezinski, America’s Great Power Prophet.For two clips of our convo — on how China played Trump on rare minerals, and Europe’s bind over Russian energy — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in West Sussex near my hometown; the international appeal of English boarding schools; the gerontocracy of the USSR; Ed making a beeline to the Berlin Wall as it fell; Fukuyama’s The End of History; Brzezinski’s The Grand Failure — of Communism; enthusiasm for free markets after the Cold War; George Kennan warning against Ukraine independence; HW Bush and the Persian Gulf; climate change and migration; a population boom in Africa; W Bush tolerating autocracy in the war on terrorism; Trump tearing up his own NAFTA deal; the resurgence of US isolationism; the collapsing security umbrella in Europe leading to more self-reliance; Germany’s flagging economy; the China threat; Taiwan’s chips; TACO on tariffs; the clean energy cuts in OBBBA; the abundance agenda; national debt and Bowles-Simpson; the overrated Tony Blair; Liz Truss’ “epic Dunning-Kruger”; Boris killing the Tory Party; the surprising success of Mark Carney; Biden’s mediocrity; Bernie’s appeal; and the Rest catching up with the West.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution, Shannon Minter debating trans issues, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com(It’s the July 4th holiday. The full Dish — including my weekly column and the window contest — will return next Friday. Happy Independence Day!)Walter is the Leonard Lauder Professor of American History and Values at Tulane. He’s the former CEO of the Aspen Institute, where he is now a Distinguished Fellow, and he’s been the chairman of CNN and the editor of Time magazine. He’s currently a host of the show “Amanpour and Company” on PBS and CNN, a contributor to CNBC, and the host of the podcast “Trailblazers, from Dell Technologies.” The author of many bestselling books, the one we’re discussing this week is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life.As Walter says on the pod, my invitation to him to come talk about Franklin spurred him to propose writing a new, second brief book on Franklin’s meaning for America, especially his hatred of “arbitrary power.” For two clips of our convo — on why Franklin opposed a one-person presidency, and his brutal rift with his son William — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised in NOLA in a diverse neighborhood; his work during the recovery from Katrina; Michael Lewis and Nick Lemann as NOLA contemporaries; Harvard in the ‘70s; the benefits of being an outsider; Franklin as the 10th son of a Puritan immigrant in Boston; indentured to his brother as a printer’s apprentice; running away to Philly; his self-taught genius; his 13 Virtues; his many pseudonyms; Poor Richard’s Almanack; poking fun at the elite; his great scientific feats; giving away the patents for his inventions; becoming the most famous American abroad; leaving his wife in Philly; his philandering; struggling to hold the empire together as a diplomat in London; humiliated by elites in the Cockpit in Westminster; returning to Philly as a fierce revolutionary; seeing his son William stay loyal to the Crown as governor of NJ; embracing William’s abandoned son; securing an alliance with France and its crucial navy; the deism of the Founders; balancing faith and reason; power vs arbitrary power; Trump’s daily whims (e.g. tariffs); the separation of powers; judicial review; private property as a check against tyranny; the commons; Posse Comitatus; the Marines in L.A.; Congress ceding power to Trump; the elites’ failure over Iraq and Wall Street; and the dangers of cognitive sorting.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Edward Luce on America’s self-harm, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comPaul is a writer, an editor, and an old friend. He’s a regular contributor to The New Yorker and a senior fellow in Georgetown’s Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs. He’s the author of The Life You Save May Be Your Own and Reinventing Bach, and his new book is The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s.For two clips of our convo — on Martin Scorsese’s extraordinary religious films, and the strikingly resilient Catholicism of Andy Warhol — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: Paul raised in upstate NY as a child of Vatican II; his great-uncle was the bishop of Burlington who attended the 2nd Council; Thomas Merton and Flannery O’Connor as formative influences; working in publishing with McPhee and Wolfe; Cullen Murphy on the historical Christ; Jesus as tetchy; Czesław Miłosz; Leonard Cohen making it cool to be religious; the row over The Last Temptation of Christ and Scorsese’s response with Silence; Bill Donahue the South Park caricature; Bono and U2; The Smiths; The Velvet Underground; Madonna and her Catholic upbringing; “Like A Prayer” and “Papa Don’t Preach”; her campaign for condom use; when I accidentally met her at a party; Camille Paglia; Warhol the iconographer; his near-death experience that led to churchgoing; Robert Mapplethorpe; S&M culture in NYC; Andres Serrano’s “Piss Christ”; Jesse Helms’ crusade against the NEA; Sinead O'Connor’s refusal to get an abortion; tearing up the JP II photo on SNL; the sex-abuse crisis; Cardinal O’Connor; the AIDS crisis; ACT-UP’s antics at St. Patrick’s Cathedral; the AIDS quilt as a cathedral; and Paul’s gobsmacking omission of the Pet Shop Boys.Coming up: Edward Luce on the war with Iran, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. (NS Lyons indefinitely postponed a pod appearance — and his own substack — because he just accepted an appointment at the State Department; and the Arthur Brooks pod is postponed because of calendar conflicts.) Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comBatya is a journalist and author. She’s a columnist for The Free Press, a co-host of The Group Chat on 2Way, and the author of two books: Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy, and Second Class: How the Elites Betrayed America’s Working Men and Women. Her forthcoming book is about, as she puts it, “why Jews are Democrats and why the left turned on the Jews.”For two clips of our convo — on Trump’s class warfare, and deporting non-citizens over speech — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised in an Orthodox family; debating issues with her parents and five siblings during Shabbat; spending high school in Israel; same-sex education; the mikveh; how sexual desire is better with limitations; becoming secular for a decade; getting a PhD in English literature; her “accidental” entry into journalism during Hurricane Sandy; the Great Awokening in media; Trump’s despicable character; his fickle tariffs; his tax cuts; Congress ceding power to Trump; Biden’s tariffs; his investment in factories and infrastructure; his disastrous immigration policy; Batya’s evolving views on Trump; marriage equality; Bostock; trans activist ideology; Trump’s EO on trans servicemembers; Scott Bessent; the overreach of neoliberalism; Adam Smith; the tax cuts in the BBB; crypto; defunding science at Harvard; gutting USAID; the State Dept’s AI surveillance; the 1952 McCarthyite law; Öztürk and Khalil; UNRWA and Gaza; Israel striking Iran; and the possibility of regime change.There were eight clashes over facts in the episode. Chris ran them through Grok, which one presumes would not be too biased against Trump. You can read the eight back-and-forths on the web version of the episode. You should listen and, with these independent sources in mind, decide for yourself on the facts. I think I missed the mark a little a couple of times, but was specifically wrong in assuming that Batya was all in on the war against Iran and always had been. I apologize for that — and for getting a bit too amped up. I should try not to do that when I’m a host and I hope Batya will forgive me. But a vast amount of the chat was nonetheless delightful — and this is a stressful time. Coming up on the Dishcast: Paul Elie on crypto-religion in ‘80s pop culture, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. (NS Lyons has indefinitely postponed a pod appearance — and his own substack — because he just accepted an appointment at the State Department; and the Arthur Brooks pod is postponed because of calendar conflicts.) Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comChris is a TV broadcaster and author. During his political career, he was a speechwriter for Jimmy Carter and the chief of staff for House Speaker Tip O’Neill. In journalism, Chris was a columnist with the San Francisco Examiner and then the Chronicle, the host of “Hardball with Chris Matthews,” and the host of “The Chris Matthews Show,” where I was a frequent guest. He’s also written nine books. He’s currently a professor at Fulbright University Vietnam, and he recently revived “Hardball” on Substack — check it out.For two clips of our convo — memorable quips from world leaders, and debating the legacy of JFK — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up a Catholic in Philly with four brothers; showing up late to Mass; the Good Friday Agreement; absorbing Burke as a teen and lauding Bill Buckley; doing Peace Corps in Africa; working for Sen. Frank Moss; a stint as a Capitol cop; running for Congress in Philly; working for Ed Muskie the liberal budget hawk; Rick Hertzberg; writing for Carter and smoking cigs on Air Force One; the Iranian hostage crisis; Tip O’Neill the liberal titan; the corrupt Mayor Curley; Reagan the cowboy and ideas man; his tax cuts; Peggy Noonan’s epic speeches; Reagan’s humor; taking the piss out of Corbyn; the seductive charm and shittiness of Bill Clinton; his undeserved impeachment; Gore’s disastrous run; the collective trauma of 9/11; neocons and the Iraq War; Obama’s political genius; the nuclear threat from Iran; debating the woke’s role in electing Trump; Biden’s leftward lurch and Ron Klain; Tim Walz; GOP lawmakers’ fear of Trump; his slavish sycophants; the patriotism that liberal elites don’t fully grok; and the beauty of naturalization ceremonies.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Batya Ungar-Sargon on Trump 2.0, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Paul Elie on crypto-religion in ‘80s pop culture, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness, and Johann Hari coming back to turn the tables and interview me for the pod. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comRobert is a journalist and historian. He served as president and editor-in-chief of Congressional Quarterly, the editor of The National Interest, and the editor of The American Conservative, and he covered Washington as a reporter for the WSJ for more than a decade. He has written many history books, including the one we're discussing this week: President McKinley: Architect of the American Century. It’s a lively read, a fascinating glimpse of fin-de-siècle American politics, and of a GOP firmer on tariffs — but a hell of a lot more virtuous than it is under Trump today.For two clips of our convo — on McKinley’s heroism during the Civil War, and the reasons he differs so much from Trump — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: Robert’s journalist dad and his conservative influence; his own career as a journo; McKinley’s roots in Ohio; his abolitionist parents; his mentor Rutherford B Hayes; his time in Congress; the economic depression of the 1890s; the debate over the gold standard; McKinley’s “front-porch strategy” besting the great populist orator William Jennings Bryan; his underrated presidency; his modesty and “commanding quiet”; his incremental pragmatism — in the spirit of Oakeshott’s “trimmer”; ushering in American empire; the Spanish-American War; the sinking of the Maine; taking over the Philippines; annexing Hawaii; leaving Cuba to the Cubans; the Panama Canal; McKinley’s strong support of tariffs; his later pivot towards reciprocity in trade; his lackluster record on race relations; his assassination by an anarchist; Teddy taking over; his bombast contrasting with his predecessor; trust-busting; McKinley’s remarkable marriage; his wife’s epilepsy; HW Bush; and if a McKinley type of conservative could succeed in today’s GOP.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Chris Matthews — who just revived “Hardball” on Substack, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Arthur C. Brooks on the science of happiness, Paul Elie on crypto-religion in ‘80s pop culture, and Johann Hari coming back to turn the tables and interview me for the pod. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJake Tapper is the lead DC anchor and chief Washington correspondent for CNN, whose books include The Outpost, The Hellfire Club, and The Devil May Dance. Alex Thompson is a national political correspondent for Axios and a political analyst for CNN. They just published Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again.For two clips of our convo — on the deep dysfunction of the Biden family, and the blame Jill deserves for concealing Joe’s decline — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: Alex leaving the Mormon Church after his dad’s ex-communication and a loss of faith; the cult-like loyalty of Biden’s aides; hiding Beau’s cancer; Hunter’s profound addiction; dating Beau’s widow and getting her on crack too; his emotional blackmailing of Joe; his influence peddling; his infamous laptop; Ashley Biden’s rehab and relapse; the Kennedys; the Bidens’ rift with the Obamas; Joe’s bitterness over Barack backing Hillary in 2016; the first signs of cognitive decline; the Covid election and razor-thin victory; his moderate campaign followed by a radical left agenda in office; Ron Klain’s woke influence; Mike Donilon’s greed and propaganda; “Jim Crow 2.0”; Joe preoccupied with foreign policy; inflation and Larry Summers; Jill addicted to the glamor of the White House; their disowning of a granddaughter born out of wedlock; Joe’s hubris and selfishness to run again; his delusions over polling; his disastrous debate; sticking with Kamala and sticking it to the Dems; the pillorying of Robert Hur; the media’s complicity in hiding Joe’s decline; the dissent of George Clooney, Ari Emanuel, and Dean Phillips; and the Bidens paving the way for Trump 2.0.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Chris Matthews — who just revived “Hardball” on Substack, Robert Merry on President McKinley, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Arthur C. Brooks on the science of happiness, Paul Elie on crypto-religion in ‘80s pop culture, and Johann Hari coming back to kibbitz for his fourth appearance on the pod. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.