Rapid advances in artificial intelligence (AI) are helping the energy industry accelerate the transition to a low-carbon future. The Energy Podcast explores how AI is being used today and discusses how to unleash its potential. Presented by Eno Alfred-Adeogun. Featuring Kate Kallot, founder and CEO of Amini, Bob Flint, CEO of Mirico and Amy Challen, Shell’s global head of AI. Additional reporting by Claire François and Berry Mulder. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and Sarah Moore and edited by Eno Alfred-Adeogun. 00:00:00 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Today on The Energy Podcast. 00:00:07 Audio: I will be working alongside humans to provide assistance and support and will not be replacing any existing jobs. You sure about that, Grace? Yes, I am sure. 00:00:20 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: That’s Nurse Grace speaking at the world's first robot press conference last year. And yes, she’s a robot. Powered by artificial intelligence this humanoid can diagnose illness, deliver treatments, and even offer patients emotional support. Impressive, right? Well, yes, but she’s just one of many examples of AI-enabled machines designed to address some of the world's biggest challenges; social care, disease, hunger, and probably sooner than you think. Consider how deeply AI is already entwined in so much of our daily lives. From work commutes … 00:01:03 Audio: You’ve arrived at your destination. 00:01:04 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: ... to virtual learning … 00:01:07 Audio: (foreign language). 00:01:07 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: ... to, " Alexa, what’s on my to- do list?" 00:01:11 Audio: Subscribe to The Energy Podcast. 00:01:14 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: A global AI revolution isn’t coming, it’s already here. So, could this rapidly advancing technology also tackle the pressing challenge of lowering emissions? Hello, I’m Eno Alfred-Adeogun, and today on The Energy Podcast we ask, can AI get the world to net- zero faster? Joining me to discuss this is Kate Kallot, founder and CEO of the African tech startup Amini. Bob Flint, CEO of methane emission monitoring company Mirico. And Shell's global head of artificial intelligence, Amy Challen. It’s really great to have you all on the episode today. Now, before we delve into the world of AI, a really helpful place to begin is defining what it actually is. Because by the number of definitions I found when researching this episode, that's actually harder to do than it sounds. So let’s briefly see if we can reach a consensus of what it actually is. Kate, coming to you first. 00:02:20 Kate Kallot: For me, I have one simple definition of AI, which is going to literally take one sentence. It is the science to make computers think and take actions like humans. 00:02:30 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Love it. Brilliant. Brilliant. Amy, what about you? Can you add to that? 00:02:34 Amy Challen: I think I’m going to give a more boring answer. I often think about it compared to software. In software, we write the rules. We say, " If this happens, then that happens," and we define what that rule is. But AI works differently. We give AI a load of historical data, and we say, " You tell us what happens based on the patterns you've observed in the past." And so it can be a bit of surprise what it comes up with. The other thing to watch out for is that if our historical data is biased, if the world has changed, then we're going to see that in the model. So we have to be quite careful. 00:03:10 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Okay. Bob, no pressure. We’ve got two great answers. Do you have anything to add onto the definition? 00:03:16 Bob Flint: Yeah, I get to go last. I think all of the above, plus extending into areas where humans aren't necessarily good, which is looking at huge volumes of data. So being able to process all the bits and bytes that come from sensors from the real world and floods of information like you would find in an oil and gas company and process that in super high speed. 00:03:40 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Okay, so now that’s clear, we can turn our attention to how the energy sector is actually harnessing the power of AI. So, Bob, your company, Mirico, it monitors emissions, and then companies can pair the data that you gather with AI, which can then help to combat the emissions found. Can you share some good examples of this pairing in action? 00:04:06 Bob Flint: What we do is primarily we address the issue of methane emissions from energy. And methane is about 30 times worse than carbon dioxide for global warming, so it’s something that we all should be concerned about. The good news is if you stop emitting methane, the world starts to cool pretty much immediately because methane just decomposes in the atmosphere. So that’s why it’s so important. So we scan an area, say, an oil and gas facility, for those emissions. Measurement leads to action, leads to reduction, and we can then put that data into one of Shell's systems of record, say a digital twin. 00:04:48 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: On the digital twin, because that's another concept I feel like I've read a lot about as well. Could you just expand on what that is? 00:04:54 Bob Flint: A digital twin would be a replica of something in the real world, a refinery, a rig and it sits in silico, in a computer rather than in the physical world. So that would enable you to, for example, start making predictions or what-if type of questions on what might happen in the real world in circumstances which you wouldn't want to see. So you might predict what happens if I change temperatures and pressures in a way that might be dangerous. Well, I can do that in a computer. I wouldn’t want to do that in the real world. 00:05:30 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Now, considering the ambitious climate targets that have been set worldwide, it's really no wonder that people are looking to AI for solutions. Amy, what would you say are the main ways that AI is enabling a low-carbon energy system? 00:05:47 Amy Challen: I think there are four main ways it’s already doing this and is going to continue in the future. Firstly, it can improve the efficiency of everything we're already doing. Whether that’s renewables or hydrocarbons, a couple of percentage points of efficiency can make a difference to the productivity of our energy system and can reduce CO2 emissions and methane emissions. The second one is I don't think we're going to enable a widespread renewable system without having really excellent forecasting and optimisation, two things that AI is incredibly good at. Because renewables like wind and solar, they're intermittent. Sometimes the wind blows, sometimes the sun shines, sometimes it doesn't, and it's not entirely predictable. So, you use AI to predict when that will happen and to optimise how you use your battery, how you buy and sell energy to make sure that we always have the energy supply when we need it. The third way is through everything we can do in lab sciences, in research and development there, and in design of a new energy components and systems. So for example, with the lab sciences, you have a whole process of research you go through. You look at papers and patents to have an idea of what to research on. AI can really speed up your search there and find the right things to be looking at to make suggestions. And finally, it’s got a big role to play in monitoring. If we don’t know what the current situation is in terms of working out where methane emissions is, then we don't have a baseline, and we can't track. And that’s hugely important to be able to know what's effective, what's not, and where are we going. 00:07:25 Eno Alfred-Adeogun: Kate, you’re based in Africa, so it'd be really, really good if you could paint a picture of the role AI is playing on the continent, if at all, in different energy systems. 00:07:37 Kate Kallot: Africa is still the most data- scarce continent. We think about the data scarcity affecting many different places, whether it's having billions of people that are still unconnected, whether it's having data scarcity when it comes to satellite imagery, when it comes to meteorological data. So when we think about the transformative role of AI in Africa a little bit more broadly, there's still step one that needs to be fixed, which is the data scarcity. Now, when it comes to where AI can be applied, it's important to remind everyone that AI is just a tool, and it's not going to come and transform everything and make everything better – it’s a means to an end. It’s not actually the end. So when we think about the solutions that AI will enable to build, we always have to go back to the foundation, which is what problem we're trying to solve. 00:08:28 Amy Challen: And could I build on something Kate just said as well, which is there's no AI without data, absolutely foundational. But also, AI and data, they're not the answer to the energy transition. They’re both mega-enablers of it, but fundamental
As countries across the world strive to reach their climate targets, they must make sure that the move to a cleaner energy system supports economic growth. The Energy Podcast explores this difficult balancing act. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Dr Rob Charnock of the Metis Institute for Climate Strategy, climate scientist and advisor Dr Yvonne Maingey-Muriuki and Shell’s chief economist Dr Mallika Ishwaran. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and Sarah Moore, and edited by Eno Alfred-Adeogun. Episode Transcription: 00:00:00 Julia Streets: Today on The Energy Podcast. 00:00:07 Speaker 2: Economic growth and developmental sustainability are not mutually exclusive. 00:00:13 Speaker 3: With a strong talent pool of young entrepreneurs and qualified engineers, we are pressing forward with solutions in climate-smart agriculture, water conservation, clean energy innovations, and more. 00:00:29 Speaker 4: Let us come together to build resilient, sustainable and green businesses, communities, and countries of the future. 00:00:39 Julia Streets: The dust has settled on COP28, and the main takeaway was clear; the world is falling short of its climate targets. But as the leaders who gathered at the conference highlighted, there remains an appetite to do better while simultaneously ensuring economies keep turning. The question is, how? The climate summit showcased diverse approaches. Some nations prioritised boosting the supply of lower carbon energy to meet demand and remain competitive. Others advocated for increasing funding in renewables to attract investment and spur the creation of more jobs. And while some countries pushed for a complete phase-out of all fossil fuels, others favoured a phase-down, where coal, oil, and gas usage is reduced rather than eliminated as a more economically viable plan. The reality is, different solutions will be needed in different places, and countries will move at different paces to achieve net- zero. Hello, I'm Julia Streets, and today on the Energy Podcast as we look ahead to 2024, we ask: how can economies thrive while the world cuts carbon? Joining me today are guests, Dr Yvonne Maingey-Muriuki, who is a climate scientist and strategic practitioner to organisations operating in Africa. Dr Rob Charnock who is director of the Metis Institute for Climate Strategy, and Shell's chief economist, Dr Mallika Ishwaran. Now, before we look ahead to what this year and beyond may have in store, let's take a moment to reflect on where things currently stand. Rob, I'm going to come to you. How would you rate the current global progress in cutting carbon? 00:02:27 Dr Rob Charnock: I think what was incredibly interesting to see at the recent COP, was that it's the first global stocktake, so we really get a sense of how close we are to being on track towards the targets set out in the Paris Agreement. And what I thought was very encouraging is, previously we thought we were on track for somewhere between 2. 7 to 3.6 degrees of warming, but as we get more and more commitments coming through that are updated as well after a few years, we see that we're getting closer. Now, that's not to say we're on track for 1. 5 or even well below two degrees at the moment. 00:02:58 Julia Streets: Some areas of the economy are more challenging to decarbonise than others. I mean, I think particularly industry and transport as well, but they are central to economic growth. I'm curious to think about what's the way forward, and Mallika, I'd love to come to you for your thoughts on that. 00:03:16 Dr Mallika Ishwaran: So what we are seeing is there's a sector by sector difference in how the different sectors are progressing in the transition. I think you can see the evidence is there that power is decarbonising, renewables are coming in at scale and really are changing and disrupting the system. But there are other sectors. I would put passenger EVs as part of the transport segment as something that is changing rapidly. But there are other bits of the transport segment not transforming as easily, and these are areas that require either high heat or they require dense energy molecules, and you can't do that with electricity unfortunately. So they're requiring things like hydrogen or sustainable biofuels, and these are taking a little bit longer to bring to market and to commercialise. So they're still quite a bit more expensive than the fuels we use today. And so the key there is, how do we accelerate the process of commercialisation of these kinds of fuels so that the whole world is changing and transforming to low carbon at pace at the same time by 2050. 00:04:17 Julia Streets: Rob, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. The incentives that are needed in order to encourage consumers to choose lower carbon goods and services that will drive down cost and also increase adoption. 00:04:29 Dr Rob Charnock: Over time we've heard this narrative that low carbon might be more expensive, but as time goes by, you quickly find that the cost profile decreases rapidly, and frankly beyond the forecasts as well. So, I would say, even the economic reason for shifting consumer demand is already coming online in most segments, and this will continue to do so. I also think shifting customer preferences and shifting demands suggest, if you are not properly tackling the carbon profile of your products or even the recyclability of those products afterwards, there is going to be a significant shift away from what you're selling. 00:05:05 Julia Streets: There's clearly a sense, we need to move at pace and we need to move at scale. I'd like to return to COP28, because one of the key topics was about phasing out fossil fuels versus the phasing down of fossil fuels, but the final deal made no mention of either. And instead, we note that the pledge talked about the transitioning away from fossil fuels. So not phasing out, not phasing down, but transitioning away. And Yvonne, I think particularly of a remark made by Ruth Nankabirwa who is Uganda's energy minister. She had a very interesting take on this, and let me just read what she told journalists during COP28: “To tell Uganda to stop fossil fuels, it is really an insult. It is like you are telling Uganda to stay in poverty." I'd love to get your thoughts on that. How would you respond to that? 00:06:00 Dr Yvonne Maingey-Muriuki: I mean, it's a really sort of difficult position to be in. I think on the one hand, African governments, and I'm speaking specifically about the Kenyan government, have made their intentions very clear; we are going to foster low carbon resilient development pathways. If you look at Kenya as an example, where I'm based, where I'm from, 80% of our energy is already renewable. We're looking at more geothermal, hydro, solar. The majority of our grid is actually already quite green. The opportunity within the continent is quite significant to focus on it and to drive renewable energy to power our economy. On the other hand, it's important to think about how Africa is powered specifically, because this is where the root cause of the problem is. About 43% of the total population in Africa lack access to basic electricity. This means that about 600 million people right now do not have access to energy. I think the first question for the African continent is just ensuring that we have access to energy first. But, we have to contend with the reality that African economies for the first time, some of which have just discovered oil, I'm talking about Kenya, looking at one of the most impoverished parts of the country, Turkana, which discovered oil four, five years ago. And expecting some of these local economies to not exploit this resource, I think is a bit rich, particularly from the developed countries. But then we also have to think about in the context of what is the actual contribution to emissions. Look at Tanzania, another great example where they have natural gas deposits, which they have on many occasions shown a desire to develop and to exploit. But when we look at the calculations, Africa already accounts for maybe less than 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions. If Tanzania was to develop all of their natural gas deposits, you are looking at an increase of about 0. 4 to 0. 6% of global emissions. These are economies that do have access to these resources which they have an interest to develop, which they have a right to develop, and which is why we talk about a just transition. 00:08:00 Julia Streets: Rob, how realistic is it to expect developing nations to leapfrog traditional fossil fuels? 00:08:08 Dr Rob Charnock: To me, the critical point in that is
As the world grapples with the urgent challenge of climate change, the energy industry is working to reduce greenhouse gas emissions while continuing to deliver the secure and affordable energy people need today. Is switching to renewables the answer, and do oil and gas have a role to play? Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Dr Bassam Fattouh of the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies, Sian Lloyd-Rees of Mainstream Renewable Power and Shell’s Zoe Yujnovich. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and Sarah Moore, and edited by Molly Lynch and Sophie Curtis. TRANSCRIPT Shell The Energy PodcastSeason 4, Episode 4 00:00:00Julia Streets: Today on The Energy Podcast. 00:00:07Bassam Fattouh: If oil and gas is to remain part of the energy mix, the key issue then becomes how to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from hydrocarbon related activities. 00:00:16Sian Lloyd-Rees: If we want to achieve net- zero by 2050, we all need to adopt that 2050 mindset now, making the decisions today that are consistent with the future that we want. 00:00:26Zoe Yujnovich: The journey to net-zero must be achieved whilst at the same time providing a stable and reliable supply of energy. 00:00:34Julia Streets: The science is clear and the world is in a fight to avoid the most serious effects of climate change. Energy and the use of it is one of the biggest contributors to global greenhouse gas emissions. And this means that the oil and gas industry, which supplies much of that energy, is under pressure like never before. Many countries are working to achieve net- zero carbon emissions by 2050, while continuing to meet the demand for secure and affordable energy. The impact of the war on Ukraine on the global energy market has shown just how delicate the balance is to maintain. Some critics argue that only a drastic scale back from oil and gas will do, advocating for actions like an immediate end to the development of new oil and gas fields. Others believe that the global economy cannot be decarbonized without the constructive participation of the oil and gas industry. On one thing, there is broad agreement that business as usual is no longer an option. How can the world manage the balancing act of meeting demand while investing in the energy of the future? Does it need to go further and faster? Hello, I'm Julia Streets, and today on the Energy Podcast we ask; is there a role for oil and gas in the journey to net- zero? With me to discuss this are Dr. Bassam Fattouh, Director of the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies, Sian Lloyd- Rees, the UK Managing Director for Mainstream Renewable Power and Shell's Integrated Gas and Upstream Director, Zoe Yujnovich. So, Bassam, let me start with you. How does the world get its energy today? 00:02:10Bassam Fattouh: Based on the latest statistics for 2022, hydrocarbons, that means oil, gas and coal, accounted for the bulk of primary energy consumption. Oil accounted for more than 30% of primary energy consumption, followed by coal, which still account for more than 25%, and then the share of natural gas is not far away, standing at around 25%. The share of renewables in the form of solar and wind has been rising fast and accounted close to 10% of primary energy consumption, surpassing nuclear energy and hydroelectricity. But Julia, it's important to focus not only on the shares, but also the growth rates. For instance, if you take coal, the growth rate between 2012 and 2022 was close to zero, whereas renewables grew more than 12% per annum during the same period. So the energy mix actually can evolve faster than implied by historical standards, which is needed if we are to meet our climate targets. 00:03:12Julia Streets: So in support of the UN Paris Agreement's ambition to limit the global temperature increase to 1. 5 degrees centigrade, above pre- industrial levels, many countries have set net- zero targets and I'm curious to know what does that mean for the energy industry? Sian, can I come to you? 00:03:28Sian Lloyd-Rees: As Bassam’s just talked about, the energy mix today includes a number of different energy sources and to achieve net- zero, we need to grow our cleaner energy mix going forward, but that's going to take time and it's going to take a balance of different things. From my perspective, as a wind developer, we are focused on trying to accelerate the uptake and the introduction of wind powered energy and solar energy on a global basis. But there are challenges. When we look at the wind resource in the world, a lot of it lies in the northern- hemisphere, the greatest need is in the southern- hemisphere. It lies far from offshore in quite deep waters, and that requires different technologies, floating technologies, to be able to access it. We then have the challenge of transporting that wind energy, once we've managed to deliver it at an affordable price, to different parts of the world. So we have technology challenges, we have geographical challenges. We also have the challenges around the supply chain and the materials that we need in order to be able to ramp up in terms of renewables. Yes, we need to grow our renewable energy percentage in terms of the mix, but we also need to focus on the energy sources today and we need to decarbonize those. Oil and gas today needs greater decarbonization, but so do many other heavy industries as well around the globe. 00:04:39Julia Streets: And Zoe, perhaps I could bring you in here. I'd love to get your thoughts as well about what all this means for the energy industry. 00:04:44Zoe Yujnovich: The journey to net- zero must be achieved whilst at the same time providing a stable and reliable supply of energy. Whilst the global energy mix is changing, demand for energy services will continue to grow and it'll need to be met by a combination of different types of energy. It's certainly going to be critical that we don't dismantle the current energy system faster than we can build the clean energy system of the future. We are very focused on trying to understand how to change the demand patterns and indeed how we therefore supply alternative energy into those different demand hubs. Oil and gas will continue to play a crucial role in the energy system for decades to come, but of course we will see that demand reducing gradually over time. The other thing I think I would say is of course it's also very critical that we actually lead by example in how we drive that energy efficiency. And we are very focused on cutting emissions from the existing operations. So in short, it's absolutely essential that the energy mix will change, we must reduce emissions from our own operations and also find those profitable sustainable ways to transition to net- zero. 00:05:56Julia Streets: Just building on that, there's some warnings from environmental groups. The continued investment in oil and gas infrastructure can risk the making of the transition to cleaner energies even more difficult or even too expensive. And I'm really curious to hear from our guests today whether they think that is fair. Sian, can I come to you first? 00:06:16Sian Lloyd-Rees: Yes, and there is a lot of discussion around the concern that infrastructure decisions and investment today shape the energy future that we'll get. So from our global wind developer perspective, we look carefully at government policies and the subsidies and investment areas they prioritize. And the UK move faster than many countries in focusing its fiscal incentives into renewable development with a contract for different commercial mechanism, which they initiated, which guarantees a long- term contract certainty for wind developers. Likewise, in the USA, we're seeing the Inflation Reduction Act focused on attracting investors and infrastructure developers into the renewable energy space, and the EU has got a similar mechanism. So we certainly are seeing a subsidy reallocation trend in favor of renewable energy sources and the growth which all helps to address the argument around renewables being more expensive or not fit for purpose. But overall, if we want to achieve net- zero by 2050, we all need to adopt that 2050 mindset now, making the decisions today that are consistent with the future that we want. And this is what we look for when we engage with governments in different parts of the world in terms of where their future investment is going. 00:07:23Julia Streets: Bassam, can I bring you in here, because I'm curious what would be the impact of stopping new investments in oil and gas altogether? 00:07:30Bassam Fattouh: Well, at this stage of the transition where we haven't seen a fundamental shift in demand and in fact
The electric vehicle (EV) market is booming and widespread adoption of EVs is critical if countries are to realise their climate ambitions. But every new EV on the road increases the demand for convenient, affordable charging. The Energy Podcast investigates how the world is meeting this infrastructure challenge. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Elizabeth Connelly of the International Energy Agency, Lucie Mattera from ChargeUP Europe, Ingrid Malmgren of Plug In America and Shell’s Istvan Kapitany. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and Sarah Moore, and edited by Molly Lynch and Sophie Curtis. TRANSCRIPT Shell The Energy PodcastSeason 4, Episode 3 00:00Julia Streets: Today on The Energy Podcast….. MUSIC BED COMES IN Istvan Kapitany: When this is becoming really the global way of mobility, finally, we really need to be sorting out public charging.Ingrid Malmgren: Through deliberate planning and innovation and organic growth, we're going to have chargers where we need them, when we need them, and we'll have a cleaner, more sustainable equitable transportation system. 00:29Julia Streets: There can be little denial that the electric vehicle revolution is upon us. According to the International Energy Agency, sales of Electric Vehicles, or EVs, exceeded 10 million worldwide in 2022, and the global market is predicted to grow even further this year. This is good news for the nations relying on widespread adoption of EVs in helping them to realize their climate ambitions. If global carbon emissions are to reach net zero by 2050 in line with the Paris Agreement, there will need to be 300 million EVs on the road by the end of this decade.Such rapid growth intensifies the need for EV infrastructure, namely access to reliable, affordable charging. Ensuring that EVs match the cost and convenience of running a conventional fuel vehicle is crucial, not just for existing owners, but also in convincing more drivers to make the switch. Governments and businesses across the world are grappling with the infrastructure challenge created by the EV boom with varying degrees of success.Hello, I'm Julia Streets, and today on The Energy Podcast we ask, are roads ready for EVs? MUSIC ENDS With me to discuss this are Elizabeth Connelly, transport analyst at the International Energy Agency. Lucie Mattera, Secretary General of the infrastructure industry association, ChargeUp Europe. Ingrid Malmgren, policy director at Plug In America, and Shell's Executive Vice President for Mobility, Istvan Kapitany. I'm delighted that you're all with me today. Elizabeth, when you think about EV infrastructure, what's the global outlook? 02:16Elizabeth Connelly: One thing to note about charging infrastructure right now is that most charging of electric cars occurs at homes, but a lot of the attention is around public charging, of course, because this helps enable people to own EVs that don't have access to home charging. Looking at the picture today, worldwide there are about we estimate 17 million home chargers for electric vehicles and that's compared to about three million public EV chargers. In terms of who's leading the way with charging infrastructure, I don't want to say any one country is doing better or worse, because I think it really depends a lot on the setup of homes and whether people are living in detached homes or in multi- unit dwellings. So for example, in the US I think around 80% of EV owners live in single family homes and so it's really easy to charge at home and there's less pressure for there to be public charging infrastructure, at least in these early stages. While on the other hand, in China only about 50% of charging occurs at home. So I think there are factors that make it very different across different regions around what is the right level of public charging infrastructure. For example, China accounted for 50% of electric light duty vehicles last year but 65% of the public charging infrastructure. So I think in that way China's leading, but I think there's also factors that make it you need to be leading in terms of public charging. 03:45Julia Streets: I've heard some people talk about having quite deep- seated concerns about what they might call range anxiety, in terms of will you be able to get the mileage, the kilometrage that you are looking for. 03:57Elizabeth Connelly: Sure. So at least in terms of cars, and I think trucks as well, range anxiety is a real concern. We see automakers in the car industry, and I think also in the truck industry, really looking at how they can increase EV range, especially in ways that maybe don't require larger and larger, heavier and heavier batteries. So thinking about these in-route charging, whether it be highway fast chargers like we've already seen across highways around the world or thinking about for trucks in particular rest stops, how long the rest time is and building in infrastructure that can facilitate charging in whatever amount of time. I think the US and the EU have different regulations on how long driver breaks should be for these long haul trucking segments. So really thinking about how the operations need to work in order to design the adequate infrastructure in a way that could help reduce as much as possible the power demand on the grid. 04:55Julia Streets: Lucie, from your point of view, at ChargeUp Europe, what are your thoughts? 04:59Lucie Mattera: So on range anxiety, what we are finding that this is a factor that is less prevalent today in terms of sort of slowing down the switch to EV charging. There was a recent consumer survey that was commissioned by the European Commission and what they found was the primary obstacle for the switch to EV was actually the price of the car rather than the range anxiety or the lack of infrastructure. So in terms of what came up first as an obstacle for a driver that's considering the switch to e-mobility, that was firmly on the top of the list. 05:32Julia Streets: Ingrid, what do you think? 05:34Ingrid Malmgren: I think that with regard to passenger vehicles, since so many people charge at home in the United States, for most people's day- to- day driving, range anxiety is not a huge issue. Most people drive around 30 miles a day and new EVs have ranges well over 250 miles a day. So many people only need to charge up every several days or once a week. 06:00Julia Streets: Istvan, can I bring you in here? How important in the big debate about whether a motorist will make the switch to EV is the question of infrastructure? 06:10Istvan Kapitany: It's very, very important and we are already charging in 30 countries in the world. So we are pretty much one of the biggest operator in terms of the reach. The United States is very different than China. So in China we have already well over 20,000 public chargers. Most of the people, of course, are not having the ability to charge at home, so we really need to be catering for that immediately. In the United States, in different parts of the United States, you have the picture very different. And in Europe, we just did a survey now, whilst a year ago it was basically 33% of the people who didn't have charger at home, this is now 44% of the people who are driving EV cars do not have charger at home. Why is it happening? Of course, after the early adapters it is becoming more and more mainstream activity, which is great. We see that people are buying this for commuting and therefore public charging is becoming a very important part of this equation. At the early stage, many people thought, oh, it's going to be all home charging. It is just not possible. We are in 84 markets and 90% of the people who fill up at Shell wouldn't be today with electricity or with fuel but wouldn't have an ability to charge at home. So when this is becoming really the global way of mobility, finally, we really need to be sorting out public charging. 07:30Julia Streets: There's a huge element here about the growing availability of charging needed in convenient locations, whether they're from forecourts and streets to workplaces, retail car parks. I just want to pick up on this because we're going to take a quick trip to Germany where Carlo Cumpelik, Shell's network delivery manager for Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, has been at an EV charging site in Berlin. 7:53Carlo Cumpelik: I stand here in Berlin at Konrad -Wolf -Street at the parking lot next to the REWE Supermarket. REWE is one of Germany's leading food retail companies. This location is the very first REWE Supermarket where we installed our recharge charge posts. In the beginning of this year, Germany crossed the magic number of over one millio
Carbon markets are advancing on a global level, following the first country-to-country trades at COP27. The Energy Podcast investigates how carbon pricing works and examines what role it can play in the race to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Dr Hasan Muslemani from the Oxford Institute of Energy Studies, Andrea Bonzanni from the International Emissions Trading Association and Shell’s senior carbon pricing policy advisor, Dr Malek Al-Chalabi. With additional contribution by Stephen Kansuk, Head of Environment and Climate Change at the United Nations in Ghana. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and Sarah Moore, and edited by Molly Lynch and Sophie Curtis. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:00Julia Streets: Today on The Energy Podcast... MUSIC BED COMES IN Andrea Bonzanni: Emissions must be reduced globally irrespective of where they take place. The atmosphere is one at the end of the day. Article VI allows reducing emissions where it’s more efficient. Dr Hasan Muslemani: We have solutions that are being praised as the holy grail of net- zero… The issue is that we need all the solutions that we can get because in the fight against climate change, we are really in a race against time. Julia Streets: The cost of climate change. It's a phrase commonly used by governments, companies, and campaigners across the world when discussing the need to limit global warming to well below two degrees Celsius. Quantifying the exact cost of far- reaching effects of climate change is not an easy task. But putting a price on emissions is viewed by many as an effective means to help drive down levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. The idea is simple. Putting a price on carbon emissions creates a financial incentive to reduce them.Carbon markets have existed for decades. There are many carbon pricing systems around the world, but at present, it is estimated that only a quarter of emissions are priced. That could soon change. At last year's COP27 climate conference in Egypt, the first country- to- country carbon trades took place. Could this pave the way for further uptake of carbon trading and what impact could that have in the fight against global warming? Hello, I'm Julia Streets, and today on The Energy Podcast: How can carbon markets limit climate change? MUSIC ENDS With me to discuss this are Andrea Bonzanni, who's the international policy director at the International Emissions Trading Association, who you may well remember from a previous episode of The Energy Podcast. He is joined by Dr. Hasan Muslemani, who is the head of Carbon Management Research at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies. And our third guest is Dr. Malek Al- Chalabi, who is a senior carbon pricing policy advisor at Shell. Hasan, perhaps I could start with you. For the benefit of the audience, would you just mind explaining what we mean when we talk about carbon markets? 02:18Dr. Hasan Muslemani: The fundamental concept behind a carbon market is really to put a price on carbon, or in other words, to quantify the cost of damages that emissions will cost our society over time. To do this, we have, at the heart of carbon markets, what is called carbon accounting or greenhouse gas accounting. This represents a set of standards and methods that help us quantify but also verify the impact that each business creates on the environment, and this impact is reported in terms of tons of CO2 emitted. Now, something that I really want to emphasize here is that today, we speak of carbon markets, but we need to differentiate between two different types of markets. The first is what we call a compliance market, which is a market that is heavily regulated and corresponds to a specific region or jurisdiction, and where companies within that jurisdiction have to take part in the market. The other one is a voluntary one. This is a lot less regulated and where participation is voluntary, as the name implies. The voluntary carbon market is based on the concept of offsetting. That is where a company wishes to mitigate or neutralize its own emissions. So, it goes out and invests in projects which are reducing equivalent amounts of emissions elsewhere in the world. 03:30Julia Streets: Can you talk to us a little bit about how they work in practice in everyday terms? 03:36Dr. Hasan Muslemani: Starting on the compliance markets, and the objective is really to put a price on carbon, there's two different ways to do this. The first one is carbon taxation, which should be a simple concept. We have countries like Norway and Denmark, which would impose a specific tax on every ton of CO2 that a company would produce within those countries. The key here, really, is for that carbon tax to be high enough to incentivize businesses to change behavior or to move to greener production. This is essentially a stick form of regulation where businesses have to lower their emissions or face an additional cost. The other mechanism, which is a cap and trade mechanism, which is the more familiar one, and in this system we have an authority, say, the European Commission, which sets a cap on how much emissions can be generated as a whole within the continent, within Europe, and then allocates a number of allowances or carbon credits to European countries and companies for them to trade amongst each other. Here, each carbon credit or allowance is representative of one ton of CO2. This allocation process, what I want to note, is done using the historical emissions of each one of these companies. This is a process that we call grandfathering. The overall cap is reduced each year in order to meet a certain European climate target in the future. The way this works is where companies that have lowered their emissions below their targets, now they have surplus of allowances, which they can go into the market and sell to companies that did not do so well and will require to buy credits. So, this mechanism really is sort of a carrot but also a stick sort of regulation. 05:12Julia Streets: Thank you for explaining how they work. I suppose my next question, is how effective are they proving to be? 05:19Dr. Hasan Muslemani: The longest running and actually the biggest ETS in the world, that is the EU ETS or emission trading scheme. This has started in 2008 and has gone through different phases over the years. But I do want to mention that it has suffered from a number of setbacks over those years. To give an overview, the carbon price at the beginning was around 30 euros per ton, but that price has crashed to less than 5 euros around the financial crisis of '09. This was most likely because of two main reasons. The first one is that companies had to report their emissions in such a regulated manner that they have not done before, and so they might have overestimated how much emissions they emit and hence how much allowances they eventually received from the system. But also, because of the financial crisis itself, it meant that business offices aren't lit, emissions aren't as high as usual, so they did not need to surrender as much allowances at the end of the compliance phase, which eventually meant there's an oversupply of credits in the market, and so the price has crashed. The good news is the EU ETS has gone through sort of a recovery mode over the past 10 years, and today the price has not only recovered but reached the level which is believed to incentivize most sectors to lower emissions, and that level is around 100 euros per ton. 06:41Julia Streets: It's been so helpful to get a sense of progress, thinking about the dynamics of the market since launch, and also to think about the market share. Andrea, let me bring you in here because this is about the world's attempts to limit global warming to well below two degrees Celsius, in line with the Paris Agreement. Are we likely to see the growth of carbon markets in pursuit of this great ambition? 07:03Andrea Bonzanni: Well, we know that meeting the goals of the Paris Agreement requires a radical transformation of many areas of our economies and our lives, and for the reason outlined by Hasan, carbon markets and carbon pricing in general are one of the tools that governments are increasingly considering. Carbon markets are spreading from a core of rich runs economies such as the EU, California, South Korea, and New Zealand, to middle- income and emerging countries. This year, we had Mexico and Indonesia launching their emission trading systems, and the two schemes are expected to expand and evolve over time. There are other countries in Southeast Asia and Latin America that are implementing carbon markets, and even some African countries are starting to consider them. 07:45Julia
One year after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, The Energy Podcast investigates the impact of recent events on the global energy transition, drawing on Shell’s two latest Scenarios: Sky 2050 and Archipelagos. Presented by Julia Streets, featuring László Varró, head of Shell’s Scenarios team, and Dr Nat Keohane, President of the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions (C2ES). Read more about the Energy Security Scenarios here. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day and edited by Sophie Curtis. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:00:00 Julia Streets: Today on the Energy Podcast... MUSIC BED COMES IN Dr. Nat Keohane: The energy security concerns from the Russian invasion of Ukraine actually accelerate the pace of the energy transition. Laszlo Varro: There was no single global response. Europe is the eye of the storm. It is Europe where the energy crisis had by far the biggest impact. This is a situation where the average European consumer needed no explanation that there is a crisis. 00:28:41 Julia Streets: When Russia invaded Ukraine, the world was already facing a challenging set of circumstances with post-COVID- 19 austerity looming, energy prices rising and security tensions growing. The invasion amplified many of these challenges and brought the need for secure supplies of affordable, sustainable energy to the very top of the global agenda. Today, we will be exploring the tensions that have been unleashed just over one year after the invasion, with security issues, global energy supply and geopolitical alliances all in flux. We'll also be discussing how these tensions could be resolved in a world that needs to decarbonize, drawing on Shell's latest scenarios research. Hello, I'm Julia Streets and today on the Energy Podcast, can a divided world tackle climate change? MUSIC ENDS Allow me to introduce my guest today. Our first guest is Laszlo Varro, who joined Shell in 2021 as the VP of Global Business Environment, looking at scenarios and pathways. He joined, after 10 years at the International Energy Agency, where he was most recently their chief economist. In his role at Shell, he leads up the scenarios team, which explores how the global energy system could evolve right the way through to the end of the century. So Laszlo, it's great to have you on the show. Laszlo Varro: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Julia Streets: And joining us today is Dr. Nat Keohane, who is the president of C2ES, the Center of Climate and Energy Solutions. Before taking on that role in July 2021, Nat served for eight years as a senior vice president for climate with the Environmental Defense Fund where he led all of EDF's climates work in the United States and globally. So Nat, thank you so much for being with us. Dr. Nat Keohane: Thanks very much for having me. Julia Streets: So Laszlo, in the introduction, I mentioned that you lead the scenarios team at Shell. Can you talk us through what we mean when you talk about these scenarios? 02:34:18 Laszlo Varro: Scenario analysis came out of Cold War strategic assessments. Shell was historically the first company to use it for strategic analysis, so we are continuing a time- honored tradition. Scenarios have decision makers navigating uncertainties by reflecting on plausible futures. The Shell scenarios are not Shell's predictions, they are not Shell's commitments and they're not Shell's strategy. They are part of the information base that the leadership had navigating through the uncertain world. Now in 2022, it's fair to say that history was teaching us some very tragic lessons about uncertainties. Even before the war, there were tensions and fissures in the energy system. The post- COVID recovery in 2021 was exceptionally energy-intensive. Global carbon dioxide emissions stabilized at a level which is entirely unsustainable. Geopolitical intentions were already emerging, and debates were already emerging on the future of globalization. Now, on top of these existing tensions, the Russian aggression against Ukraine is not only a human tragedy – most importantly, it is a human tragedy – but it was also a geopolitical energy shock, which hasn't happened since the 1970s shocks of the Yom Kippur War and the Iranian Revolution. It created a new energy reality. Some of the impacts are helping the energy transition, other impacts are hindering the energy transition. There are regionally divergent responses and, basically, we were assessing the regionally divergent political, social, economic responses and asked the question how they can shape the energy system in a direction where humanity would like to go. 04:27:16 Julia Streets: So let's explore these scenarios a little further if we may. So there are two that I think are particularly salient today. Could you just talk us through those two scenarios? Then I'd love to bring in Nat for your reaction and your thoughts. Laszlo. 04:39:29 Laszlo Varro: We felt that, in the world of 2022-2023, social and political priorities on security are a given. They are just a fact of life. But the two scenarios, the two pathways, are distinguished by what is the actual interpretation of security. What do we mean by security and how do we try to achieve that? In one of the pathways, we call that Archipelagos, security is achieved by sticking to the existing well understood conventional energy system, energy infrastructure and capital stock, and security increases the importance of domestic hydrocarbon resources or hydrocarbon imports from friendly countries. There are signals and signposts in that direction. Last year, we have seen a surge of domestic coal production all around the world. China, for example, expanded its domestic coal production in energy terms by seven exajoules. Just for the sake of comparison, all the oil and gas that Shell produces worldwide is around six exajoules in energy terms. So the increase in domestic coal mining in China last year was more than the entire hydrocarbon production of Shell. Now we also designed another scenario - we called it Sky - in which the interpretation of security is very different. In this scenario, society regards the fossil fuel dominated energy system itself as a security risk. Very clearly, the fact that it was Russia, a major oil and gas producer which launched a geopolitical aggression, it reinforced the already existing political and media narrative that oil and gas are the problem and renewable energy is the solution. This is a scenario in which society flees forward and achieves security by an accelerated transformation of the energy system. 06:41:37 Julia Streets: Thank you for setting out those two scenarios because what strikes me is that one of them very much starts with the premise of where we are today and where we're headed, and that is the Archipelagos. The second, Sky, as you call it, starts with a future point and then works backwards from that. Nat, I know you've looked at these. I'd love to get your reactions. 07:05:06 Dr. Nat Keohane: Any scenarios like this are primarily useful for making comparisons. Any individual scenario is bound to be wrong in the details, so these aren't crystal balls, but by comparing the scenarios and looking at where they have consistent themes and where they diverge, we can learn a lot. So that's how I want to be approaching these. So under both scenarios that Shell has released, renewables increase while fossil decreases. The difference is how fast. And because of those dynamics, as well as similar consistent transitions in transport and industry, in both scenarios, we see global CO2, carbon dioxide emissions peaking and starting to decline within a decade. One interesting finding in fact from the Archipelagos scenario that Laszlo mentioned is that the energy security concerns from the Russian invasion of Ukraine actually accelerate the pace of the energy transition. It's also important to note this isn't the only evidence we have for this. The International Energy Agency in a recent report and the other oil major BP, and it just published Energy Outlook, both found similar conclusions. In other words, even under projected trends, we're turning the corner on fossil fuel consumption and emissions in the near term. The low carbon energy transition is no longer a matter of if but when. And so this is where it's useful to look at the divergence between those scenarios because that divergence points to what we need to do to accelerate that transition much faster than it would otherwise happen. And it's very clear. We need to rapidly decarbonize, clean up the electric grid, even as we expand energy access in developing countries, and even as we shift much of our economy, including transp
With COP27 closed out, The Energy Podcast hears different perspectives from people who attended the conference in Egypt, and their views on what needs to happen next. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Rebekah Shirley, World Resources Institute Africa; Susan Shannon, Shell; Eduarda Zoghbi, Global Student Energy; Andrea Bonzanni, International Emissions Trading Association. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
The 2022 UN Climate Change Conference, or COP27, will be taking place in Egypt between 6th and 18th November with a strong focus on Africa. As the conference gets underway, The Energy Podcast takes a look at what to expect. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Prudence Glorious, Chief Purpose Officer at Tanzanian impact firm PZG PR, and Shell’s Chief Climate Change Adviser, David Hone. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In the third episode of our series on heavy industry we explore chemicals. From t-shirts and trainers, medicines and mattresses, to cars and computers, phones and TVs, our modern-day lives are filled with products made from chemicals. But the chemicals industry produces a lot of CO2 emissions. What can be done to reduce these emissions? The Energy Podcast investigates. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Peter Goult from Systemiq, Naoko Ishii from the University of Tokyo and Robin Mooldijk from Shell. Additional reporting by Alexander Mante. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell, produced by Annie Day. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Steel. It’s strong, it dominates every modern city, and it’s supporting developing economies. But its production generates a lot of carbon emissions. What’s the answer? The Energy Podcast investigates. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Professor Leora Dresselhaus-Marais from Stanford University and Lene Hviid from Shell’s metals division. Additional reporting by Judith Durkin. The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell. Edited by Claire Daley, production by Annie Day. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Cement… it’s all around us. But producing it generates a huge amount of CO2 every year. So what can be done to take carbon out of the cement-making process? The Energy Podcast investigates. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Kristin Myskja, Director General of the Climate, Industry and Technology Department at the Norwegian Ministry of Petroleum and Energy, and Audny van Helden, VP Energy Marketing, Sectors and Decarbonisation, Shell. Additional reporting by Judith Durkin. You can find out more about the Northern Lights project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPDlZKB5os&t=22s The Energy Podcast is a Fresh Air Production for Shell. Edited by Claire Daley. Produced by Annie Day. Exec Producers: Neil Cowling and Michaela Hallam.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
From tracking the source of renewable energy to changing the relationship between how energy is produced and consumed, blockchain has the potential to do so much. Three industry experts tell us their experiences of blockchain in action. Presented by Julia Streets. Featuring Sophia Rödiger, bloXmove; Jesse Morris, Energy Web and Sabine Brink, Shell. Edited by Claire Daly.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
What innovations and systems look set to change the energy landscape and is AI ultimately the key to lowering emissions? Questions expertly examined at Web summit – one of the world’s biggest technology events held in Lisbon. In case you missed it, here’s the panel discussion in full. Presented by Martina Fuchs, Xinhua News Agency. Featuring Hege Skryseth, Kongsberg; Junta Nakai, Databricks and Dan Jeavons, Shell.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
It is earmarked as a front-runner in the quest for lower carbon, but The Energy Podcast explores why all hydrogen may not be equal when it comes to meeting climate goals. Presented by Bryony MacKenzie. Featuring Dr Danielle Stewart, National Grid; Paolo Brunengo, KBR; Frank Kiesslich and Nan Liu, Shell Catalysts & Technologies.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jobs in the energy industry are changing and so are the skills needed to make the energy transition happen. What will it take for the workforce to keep up and who is leading the push for new ideas? Presented by Bryony MacKenzie. Featuring Dr Anjlee Prakash, Learning Links Foundation; Mansuri Maryam and Neha Pandey, students and Nxplorers participants and Harry Brekelmans, Shell.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In a lively debate, a panel of experts examine the big issues around lowering emissions by 2050. Hosted by Georgie Barrat and featuring Andrea Heins, Chair at the Argentine Committee of the World Energy Council; Jimena Marvan Santin, Executive Director of Chapter Zero México; Thiago Barral, Executive President of the Energy Research Office and Maarten Wetselaar, Shell’s Integrated Gas, Renewables and Energy Solutions Director. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
The technology is proven but what needs to happen for carbon capture to help the world tackle climate change? Presented by Bryony MacKenzie. Featuring Charlotte Hartley, Pale Blue Dot; Dr Nilay Shah, Madhu Datta and Aulia Rahmayanti, Imperial college London; Roger Highfield, Science Museum, London and Syrie Crouch, Shell.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In conversation with the people who can make a difference. Featuring Rod Taylor, World Resources Institute and Flora Ji Qin, Shell.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
As COP26 approaches, we hear from experts who can make a difference when it comes to sustainable finance. Presented by Julia Streets and featuring Hiro Mizuno, UN special envoy on innovative finance and sustainable investments, Huw van Steenis, Sustainable Finance Chair and Senior Adviser to the CEO at UBS and Jessica Uhl, CFO at ShellSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
As COP26 approaches, The Energy Podcast explores key themes and speaks to experts who can make a difference. Presented by Julia Streets; featuring, Mechthild Wörsdörfer, IEA and Mallika Ishwaran, Chief Economist, Shell.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jebin James
Rather dry discussions on what could be exciting topics...