The Future We Build

Andrew Waugh co-founded Waugh Thistleton Architects nearly 30 years ago, straight out of college, and has spent his career pushing bio-based materials and low-carbon construction into an industry still dominated by concrete and steel. He's Alex's first architect guest on the show — a deliberate choice, given how much of the conversation about sustainable real estate happens downstream of decisions made right at the start of a project.The two get into what actually happens when an architect's original vision meets the financial reality of an investment-led development process — where it survives, where it gets quietly cost-engineered out, and whether that's inevitable. Andrew argues that most of what looks like compromise is really a failure to listen early, and that the UK's real blind spot isn't ambition — it's believing it's already ahead of Europe and the US on carbon.Listeners come away with a clearer view of where the friction in the design-to-delivery value chain actually sits, why a research-led architecture practice looks different from a design-led one, and what Andrew thinks needs to change in government policy before the rest of the industry follows.## Key Timestamps- **[00:02:00]** Andrew founded Waugh Thistleton straight out of university- **[00:04:00]** Why Alex wanted his first architect on the show- **[00:07:00]** Starting a practice in mid-1990s Hoxton on youthful confidence and energy- **[00:15:00]** Why Andrew avoids thinking about his own architectural legacy- **[00:16:00]** Designing for the people using a building now, not for how it will be remembered- **[00:20:00]** Why listening to budget and speed concerns early avoids compromise later- **[00:22:00]** Why most buildings are still concrete and glass despite new materials and AI- **[00:24:00]** The UK's blind spot: assuming it leads on sustainability when it's falling behind Europe and the US- **[00:29:00]** What London's historic architecture reveals about successful placemaking- **[00:33:00]** Why US planning authorities and cost consultants collaborate from day one, unlike the UK- **[00:38:00]** Why a third of Waugh Thistleton's turnover goes into pure research- **[00:39:00]** The real innovation isn't timber — it's industry acceptance and policy change- **[00:44:00]** The insurance quote that jumped 50% for choosing to build in timber- **[00:46:00]** Why the Hackitt Report's call to fix construction process became fixing regulations instead- **[00:53:00]** Andrew's message to sustainability teams: influence starts in the room, not just at board level- **[00:56:00]** Closing question — the one change Andrew would make: government-led low-carbon procurement- **[00:58:00]** Materials transparency: where does the sand, rebar and glass in your building actually come from- **[00:59:00]** Andrew's current frustration: wanting more collaboration across the investment and construction process## Organisations MentionedWaugh Thistleton Architects, Nuveen, RIBA, National Science Foundation, US Department of Agriculture, Department for Education (DfE), Network Rail, EU Horizon## Reports & Tools Mentioned- Building a Safer Future (the Hackitt Report): ---*The Future We Build is a podcast exploring sustainability, innovation and systemic change in the built environment, hosted by Alex Edds.*This is the final episode of Season 2. Filmed at 17 Hanover Square, Podcast Rooms, LondonProduced by Atalor## Follow the Show- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-future-we-build## Connect with Alex- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexedds## More About Our Guest- Andrew Waugh — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-waugh-5b4b4a53/- Waugh Thistleton Architects — Website: https://waughthistleton.com/

Stars aren't quality. That's the quiet admission at the heart of this episode.Chris Pyke is Chief Innovation Officer at GRESB — the benchmark that shapes how institutional capital flows across real estate globally. He helped build the five-star system. And he'll tell you it was designed to rank funds, not signal quality. Investors have been reading it wrong for a decade. GRESB is now redesigning it from the ground up.Alex pushes on the reporting burden, the bunching at the top of the scoring distribution, how investors actually use the data beyond headline scores, and whether GRESB can shift from an annual retrospective into a real-time decision-making tool.In this episode:→ Why the five-star rating measures rank, not quality — and the redesign underway→ How investor use cases have diversified far beyond green-to-green screening→ Data centres: why both existing frameworks failed and what a new assessment does→ The vision for real-time, continuous GRESB scoring decoupled from the annual cycle→ When a 75% emissions cut delivers only 10% cost saving — are we tracking the right thing?→ The supply chain timing problem and why solutions miss asset managers at the wrong moment→ Why the best investors should hold the hardest assets — not offload themKey Timestamps[00:04:30] GRESB's origin: extending green building logic to the fund and company level[00:09:00] The two-sided equation — why constructive engagement was always the design intent[00:17:30] The five-star bunching problem and why stars measure rank, not quality[00:19:30] The consultation: separating scores from benchmarking, shifting to operational outcomes[00:24:00] How investors actually use GRESB — from raw data to just taking the stars[00:29:30] Data centres: a new bespoke on-demand assessment for a fast-moving asset class[00:34:00] The future state: continuous scoring, real-time data, end of the annual upload[00:42:30] When carbon metrics decouple from cost — 75% emissions cut, only 10% cost saving[00:56:30] Closing Q1: tired of looking backwards — the shift to predictive indicators[00:58:30] Closing Q2: the case against paper decarbonisation and for brown-to-green capitalWhat you'll learn about→ How GRESB scores and ratings actually work — and why stars measure rank, not quality→ The redesign separating scoring from benchmarking→ How data centre assessments are being rebuilt from scratch→ The gap between carbon metric performance and financial materiality→ Why supply chain timing matters more than product quality for sustainability tech→ The case for brown-to-green capital — and against paper decarbonisationOrganisations mentioned: GRESB, USGBC, GRI, APG, PGGM, MSCI, INREV, EPRA, Schneider Electric, Cushman & Wakefield, Measurabl, PSP Investments, JLL, LaSalle Investment Management, Nuveen, CBRE, BlackRockThe Future We Build is a podcast exploring sustainability, innovation and systemic change in the built environment, hosted by Alex Edds. New episodes released weekly. Filmed at Obolife showroom (obolife.com), 8 Goswell Road, London — with thanks to Gary Helm. Post production by Atalor.Follow the showLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-future-we-buildApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-we-build/id1877617346Connect with Alex: [email protected] | https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexeddsMore about our guestChris Pyke: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-pyke-5a88ab/GRESB: https://www.gresb.com

This episode is sponsored by MapMortar - the capital planning management tool that turns portfolio risk from a spreadsheet headache into a boardroom-ready capital plan in around 50% of the time and cost. Check out ⁠⁠https://mapmortar.io⁠ Basil Demeroutis founded FORE Partnership in 2012 with one conviction: sustainability and financial performance aren't in tension — the industry just built a system that treats them as if they are. Trained as an aerospace engineer at Cornell and shaped by years managing the real estate portfolio of Jeff Skoll's family office, Basil thinks in systems. And the system, he argues, is broken — not just the buildings, but the procurement, the capital allocation, and the culture that produced them.This episode goes deep on what innovation in real estate actually looks like in practice. At TBC.London, FORE tracked 2 million components from 565 suppliers. At One Poultry, they partnered with Breakthrough Energy and UKGBC to build a Commercial Retrofit Innovation Map — 160 points of intervention, 100+ products evaluated, 16 adopted — to stop good ideas dying at RIBA Stage 3. And at CADWorks Glasgow, switching to all-electric mid-build didn't cost more. It saved £200,000.Key timestamps[00:04:00] - From Cornell aerospace engineering to Jeff Skoll's family office to founding FORE[00:09:00] - What surprised Basil most when moving from advisor to principal investor[00:12:00] - TBC.London: 2 million components, 565 suppliers — the supply chain reality of a single retrofit[00:17:00] - "No one's ever asked me that" — the leadership failure slowing real estate innovation[00:19:30] - Introducing the Innovation Map: 160 points of intervention[00:21:30] - How the FORE, Breakthrough Energy and UKGBC partnership at One Poultry came about[00:25:00] - Bacteria-fired tiles from a North Carolina cave — backing early-stage material science[00:32:00] - The 3% problem: climate VC targeting 38% of global emissions[00:37:30] - How going all-electric mid-build saved £200,000 at CADWorks Glasgow[00:34:00] - Innovation for innovation's sake is just theatre[00:44:30] - What problem Basil is trying to solve right now[00:46:00] - Policy asks: VAT harmonisation for retrofit and the case for carbon pricingOrganisations mentioned:FORE Partnership, MORE, Breakthrough Energy, UKGBC, Capricorn Investment Group, Skoll Foundation, 2150, MapMortar, Q Flow, KKR, Sage Group, Stiff + Trevillion Architects, McKinsey, GallupWhat you'll learn aboutRetrofit-first investment strategy, Commercial Retrofit Innovation Map, procurement and innovation adoption, supply chain complexity in deep retrofit, climate capital misallocation, the green premium myth, VAT and carbon pricing policyThe Future We Build is a podcast exploring sustainability, innovation and systemic change in the built environment, hosted by Alex Edds.New episodes released weekly.Filmed at Podcast RoomsProduced by Atalor.Follow the showLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-future-we-buildApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-we-build/id1877617346Connect with AlexLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexeddsMore about our guestsConnect with Basil Demeroutis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/basil-demeroutisFORE Partnership: https://www.forepartnership.com

This episode is sponsored by MapMortar - the capital planning management tool that turns portfolio risk from a spreadsheet headache into a boardroom-ready capital plan in around 50% of the time and cost. Check out ⁠https://mapmortar.io Ranjeet Bhalerao left his consultancy job after a £100k study could model just 5 of 300 buildings. He founded MapMortar.io to fix that. Simon Tranter has to decarbonise nearly 900 mostly-listed buildings across Marylebone by 2040 — and he's the one actually using the tool.One sells the fix. The other tests it in the real world. Alex has never used it, so he asks the awkward question: does AI-led retrofit planning change what actually gets built — or just produce a better-looking version of the problem?In this episode:→ Why "stop counting, start cutting" is the whole argument→ The £100k study that modelled 5 of 300 buildings — and started a company→ Why no landlord wants another dashboard: "outcomes, not software"→ Modelling a building from just its address: maps, LIDAR, EPC data→ The head-to-head — AI model vs on-site consultant survey. How close?→ EPCs as a milestone, not a destination→ Sequencing retrofit to tenancy and refinancing — when sustainability is just asset managementTimestamps:[00:02:00] The decision dies in the meeting, not the modelling[00:03:00] "I've never used it — but Simon has." Why this isn't a pitch[00:09:00] From the Battersea Power Station retrofit to founder[00:11:30] The £100k study that could model only 5 of 300 buildings[00:16:30] "No landlord wants another software" — outcomes over dashboards[00:20:30] 14 prized assets surveyed — and why it won't scale to 900[00:39:30] Building a model from just an address: maps, LIDAR, EPC, GIS[00:42:30] AI vs the on-site consultant: results "came out very comparably"[01:00:00] Timing a boiler to a lease — and winning better refinancing rates[01:02:30] Buildings as products, and the one thing each would changeOrganisations mentioned:MapMortar, The Howard de Walden Estate, Arup, BuroHappold, Battersea Power Station, British Land, Imperial College London, Carbon13, University of Cambridge, UCL, IES, WSP, Max Fordham, CBRE, Climate Change Committee, Property Week, Yardi, CQuel.More about our guests:Ranjeet Bhalerao: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ranjeet-bhalerao-5a549617MapMortar: https://mapmortar.ioSimon Tranter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-tranter-25814439Howard de Walden Estate: https://www.hdwe.co.ukFollow the show:🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-future-we-buildConnect with Alex:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexeddsRecorded at Podcast Rooms, 17 Hanover Square, London. Edited by Atalor. New episodes weekly.

This episode is sponsored by MapMortar - the capital planning management tool that turns portfolio risk from a spreadsheet headache into a boardroom-ready capital plan in around 50% of the time and cost. Check out https://mapmortar.io—The built environment doesn't have an innovation problem. It has a scaling problem.Emily-Rose Garnett and Philippa Birch-Wood of the UK Green Building Council authored the report mapping why sustainable solutions in real estate keep dying in pilot. Alex — who once ran innovation inside a major property firm — recognised every barrier in it.The solutions we need mostly already exist. The problem is systemic, not technical: risk-averse cultures, a certification catch-22 that starves materials innovators, and pilots never designed to scale.In this episode:→ Why the sector's problem is scaling and adoption, not a lack of ideas→ The certification catch-22 blocking low-carbon materials→ The funding gap that kills hardware innovators between pilot and manufacture→ Demand aggregation, collaborative pilots and collective insetting as fixes→ Who should lead — developers, the big advisory firms, or networks→ Whether the AI budget scramble is slowing everything else downTimestamps:[00:05:00] Not short of solutions — short of scaling[00:07:00] The seven barrier categories[00:11:00] The vicious circle blocking materials innovation[00:16:00] Demand aggregation and low-carbon concrete[00:18:00] The real pace of change in real estate[00:22:00] 20 years in real estate and never meeting[00:33:00] Where do JLL and CBRE actually sit?[00:41:00] Dropping "positive disruptors" into design teams[00:52:00] How AI budgets slow every other decision[01:01:00] Magic wand: consistency and sharing what failsOrganisations MentionedUK Green Building Council (UKGBC)Innovate UKESBEM — Emergent Sustainable Built Environment Materials innovation networkAccelerating Concrete Decarbonisation GroupFORE PartnershipBreakthrough Energy2150JLLCBRECushman & WakefieldLaSalle Investment ManagementMapMortar (episode sponsor)Reports & Tools MentionedScaling Sustainable Solutions for the Built Environment: Barriers & Enablers (UKGBC)Commercial Retrofit Innovation Map (UKGBC)UKGBC Solutions & Innovation Advisory GroupInnovate UK ESBEM UKGBC Solutions LibraryThe Future We Build is a podcast exploring sustainability, innovation and systemic change in the built environment, hosted by Alex Edds.New episodes released weekly. Recorded at Podcast Rooms.With thanks to the production team at Atalor.Follow the Show and connect with AlexLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-future-we-buildLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexeddsMore About Our GuestsEmily-Rose Garnett — Senior Advisor, Solutions & Innovation, UKGBC. LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/emily-rose-garnett-381943109Philippa Birch-Wood — Head of Climate Action, UKGBC. Profile: ukgbc.org/our-teamOrganisation: UK Green Building Council — ukgbc.org