The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill

How do empathy and employee investment transform a business into a powerhouse of growth and innovation? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill interviews Sherry Stewart Deutschmann, entrepreneur, speaker, and author of Lunch With Lucy: Maximize Your Profits By Investing In Your People. From humble beginnings, Sherry built a 40 million dollar company that was included in the Inc. 5000 List of Fasting Growing Private Companies for 10 years straight. Here’s what you’ll take away: How an employee-centric approach can drive business success by fostering transparency, trust, and engagement among your team The importance of empathetic leadership that enables you to connect with your employees on a personal level and integrate their feedback into actionable business improvements Why company-wide financial transparency leads to a more motivated, cohesive team that drives profitability and growth The secret to building a thriving law firm isn’t just about financial growth — it’s about elevating and empowering your team. Success comes from creating a people-first culture where employees are supported, challenged, and inspired to grow. When you invest in your team and align them with a shared vision, you unlock their full potential, driving results and redefining success not just for your business but for everyone involved. ---- Show Notes:  00:00 – Introduction 03:11 – From Humble Beginnings to Entrepreneurial Success 08:05 – Creating an Employee-Centric Business Model 12:03 – Revolutionizing Profit Sharing: A Monthly Approach 17:34 – Rolling Out Perks That Drive Engagement 21:16 – Why Transparency Fuels Buy-In and Productivity 25:30 – Lunch with Lucy: Building Relationships with Employees 34:59 – Lessons Learned from Selling the Company 39:38 – What Being a Game Changer Means to Sherry Stewart Deutschman ---- Links & Resources: Jehovah’s Witnesses Volkswagen Rabbit Mercury Lynx Nuts! by Kevin Freiberg Scripps Health Crossfit NetSuite Lunch with Lucy by Sherry Stewart Deutschmann Gallup Employee Engagement Study BrainTrust Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) ---- Listening to this episode but want to watch it? Check it out on Spotify.  Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: Episode 301 — Michael Cowen — Investing in Legal Excellence: Training, Tools, and Team Building Episode 279 — AMMA — Building Trust Through Authentic Leadership Episode 260 — Robert Simon — The Superpower of Authenticity: Building Communities with Aligned Values | Crisp

When growth starts to feel messy, the real risk is not the chaos. It’s what you quietly allow to slide. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill reflect on the last AMMA of the year and explore a recurring insight that emerges as firms scale. Most breakdowns do not start with big failures. They start with paper cuts, rushed training, and hires made out of urgency instead of alignment. This conversation unpacks how leaders should think when growth forces them to loosen their grip, without lowering the standard that got them there. Here’s what you’ll learn: When to recognize growing pains are signaling an actual standards problem, and not just temporary chaos How to approach training and delegation when you cannot be as hands-on, without letting quality slide How to evaluate hires made out of necessity and decide when filling a seat helps growth or quietly hurts it This final AMMA of the year offers a clear lens for scaling responsibly without normalizing mediocrity in 2026. ---- 02:14 — Michael shares his biggest lesson from the year and explains why there is no finish line in business or life 06:33 — Why the most important work in building something great is often mundane, repetitive, and unglamorous 10:27 — Why growth problems rarely show up as major failures and usually begin as small paper cuts and quality slips 11:01 — How tolerating minor issues quietly resets the standard for the entire organization 16:03 — The challenge of training as you scale and why leaders cannot rely on being hands-on forever 18:38 — How unclear expectations and rushed onboarding lead to performance breakdowns 22:17 — How to decide whether filling a role actually helps growth or creates more downstream work 23:06 — What standards leaders must personally protect as the business grows beyond them ---- Links & Resources: Knife Edge Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs Nick Saban ---- Learn what sustainable growth can look like for your firm at crispcoach.com. ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 285. Morgan Housel — Mastering the Psychology of Wealth: Beyond Money and Success 233. AMMA – How to Find Meaning in the Journey 214. Dream Team: How to Hire and Keep High-Performing Talent

What if the only thing standing between you and the next level is the courage to ignore the experts? In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Kara Goldin, Founder of Hint Water and bestselling author of Undaunted, to reveal what it really takes to build a brand, a company, and a category from the ground up. From rejection and industry pushback to Goliath competitors and well-meaning “experts” who swear your idea won’t work, this conversation is a blueprint for staying unshakably committed to your vision, even when no one else understands it. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why bold ideas are doubted before they’re celebrated — and how to push forward anyway How to distinguish genuine insight from the limiting beliefs of others What it takes to stay persistent when you’re creating something no one has ever done before If you want a real-world example of what unwavering commitment can create, this episode is it. ---- Show Notes: 04:32 — Why Kara says she never would have started Hint if she knew how difficult the journey would be. 06:34 — What it took to create a completely new beverage category and convince buyers it mattered. 08:57 — The moment a senior Coca-Cola executive dismissed her idea and told her Americans “love sweet.” 12:51 — How Kara learned to separate genuine expertise from limiting beliefs disguised as advice. 16:06 — What watching Ted Turner build CNN taught her about conviction and pursuing ideas others doubt. 22:01 — How giving up Diet Coke for her own health became the unexpected catalyst for creating Hint. 30:56 — How little she actually knew about the beverage industry and why that ignorance helped her innovate. 35:25 — How landing Starbucks became a breakthrough moment that suddenly reversed without warning. 39:07 — Why Kara believes dark days don’t last forever and how unexpected opportunities follow adversity. Links & Resources: Hint Water Undaunted by Kara Goldin Ted Turner Steve Jobs ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 262. Roland Frasier — The Secret to Scale: How to Grow Your Business 193. Dan Fleyshman — Just Get Started: A Serial Entrepreneur’s Secret to Success 172. Marcus Lemonis — The Three Keys to Business: People, Process, and Product

What if the hardest years of your life turned out to be the ones that made you unstoppable? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill break down why your greatest advantage is not your wins but the wisdom you have gained along the way. Drawing on Warren Buffett’s final shareholder letter, he explains how reflection, long-term thinking, and the ability to navigate uncertainty shape the leaders who endure. Whether this year felt like a breakthrough or a struggle, you will see why your future can still be greater than your past. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why your setbacks, mistakes, and “learning years” compound into your most valuable advantage How to think beyond the next month or quarter and make decisions that hold up years from now What it takes to stop punishing your past self, extract the lesson, and move forward with clarity If you’re ready to enter the next year wiser, stronger, and more intentional, this episode shows you how. ---- 02:08 — The lesson from Warren Buffett’s final shareholder letter and its relevance for long-term thinkers. 04:51 — Understanding the difference between a winning year and a learning year. 05:06 — How shifting from short-term decisions to five- and ten-year thinking changes your outcomes. 06:45 — The Navy SEAL “no finish line” analogy and why uncertainty shapes the strongest leaders. 08:10 — Why you must stop punishing your past self and evaluate decisions based on the information you had at the time. 10:13 — The real timeline of results and why growth depends on your starting point and expectations. 15:33 — How to know when your firm is truly ready to scale and why waiting to feel “ready” keeps you stuck. 20:23 — Making tough personnel decisions and why keeping the wrong people holds your entire team back. ---- Links & Resources: Warren Buffett Warren Buffett’s Final Letter to Shareholders ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 412. Why Doing Hard Things Is the Ultimate Advantage with Joe De Sena 383. AMMA — Why Comfort Will Quietly Destroy Your Law Firm 370. Why Playing It Safe Is Killing Your Growth with Verne Harnish

You can outwork a lot of things, but you can’t outwork bad sleep. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Dr. Michael Breus, renowned clinical psychologist and sleep expert, to break down the science, strategy, and psychology behind truly restorative sleep. From understanding your body’s nightly repair cycle to optimizing your environment for peak recovery, this conversation is a masterclass in reclaiming your energy, focus, and longevity. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why sleep impacts every organ system — and how your body repairs physical and emotional stress while you rest How to determine your optimal sleep amount (and whether you’re actually getting enough) What it takes to create a truly high-performance sleep environment and avoid the traps that wreck recovery If you want to win tomorrow, it starts with how you recover tonight. ---- Show Notes: 02:57 — Sleep 101: what deep sleep and REM actually do (physical repair vs. emotional “metabolism”) and why the glymphatic system matters. 10:26 — There’s no one-size-fits-all “optimal” sleep — how to know your right amount and when low sleep becomes a red flag for underlying disorders. 15:16 — Sleep debt and social jet lag: when catching up works (teens) and when it backfires for adults. 18:06 — The “napa-latte” and smart napping: how to use short naps and caffeine to survive a bad night without sabotaging the next one. 20:02 — The sleep system audit: mattress, pillow, air quality, light, sound, and temperature — the practical adjustments that move the needle. 29:29 — Which gadgets help vs. harm: why mouth tape is dangerous, when nasal dilators work, and the limits of sleep trackers. 32:34 — Alcohol and meal timing: how much, how early, and the three-hour rule to protect your deep sleep. 39:00 — Caffeine and cannabis timing: caffeine’s half-life, green tea/matcha alternatives, and how THC/CBD impact REM and HRV. 45:06 — Supplements decoded: magnesium, vitamin D, and why most people don’t need nightly melatonin — plus important dosing pitfalls. 51:09 — Creatine and sleep deprivation: what current research actually supports (and what it doesn’t). ---- Links & Resources: Dr. Michael Breus Sleep, Drink, Breathe: Simple Daily Habits for Profound Long-Term Health by Dr. Michael Breus Orion Sleep Oura Ring WHOOP Strap ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 399. AMMA — Why Sleep and Nutrition Are Secret Weapons for Scaling Firms 396. Why High Performers Can’t Afford to Ignore Wellness with Dr. Taz Bhatia 125. Health Hackers: Mastering Habits to Operate at Peak Performance

Most people want growth, but they surround themselves with people who quietly convince them to slow down. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill pulls back the curtain on what leadership really demands when the decisions you make are unpopular, misunderstood, or impossible to explain. From the hidden weight leaders carry to the emotional price of high standards, Michael breaks down why the toughest calls often define your future more than your biggest wins. If you have ever questioned whether doing the right thing was worth the fallout, this conversation will hit home. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why great leaders are often criticized for decisions no one else has the full context for How to deliver tough feedback without sacrificing trust, connection, or standards What it takes to stay focused on long-term growth without being influenced by complacent people If you want to rise above the noise, start by refusing to lower your standards for anyone. ---- 01:44 — How Michael and Jessica celebrate after the Summit with pizza, and an intentional return to routine the next morning. 04:06 — Why the reward for work done well is often greater responsibility and higher expectations. 05:22 — How human biology pushes us toward comfort and why resisting that instinct is essential for growth. 07:12 — How listeners consume the AMA in wildly different ways and why Michael keeps the show ad-free as a way to pay it forward. 07:50 — The part of leadership no one warns you about, where you make decisions others will not understand and still carry the blame. 10:18 — How holding someone accountable reflects deeper care than avoiding the hard feedback they need to grow. 13:22 — Why ego is often the biggest barrier to improvement and how people rationalize away criticism that could actually help them advance. 16:57 — Why your leadership style must align with your authentic values instead of whatever culture trend is circulating online. 21:26 — How the culture you build determines who you attract, who you repel, and the pace at which your organization can grow. ---- Links & Resources: Robert Herjavec Radical Candor by Kim Scott ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 275. Kim Scott — The Power of Radical Respect 245. Sheila Heen — How to Master Difficult Conversations 25. Kim Scott — Radical Candor: How to be a Kickass Boss

What if the greatest victories of your life are not the ones the world celebrates, but the ones no one ever sees? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with three-time Olympic gymnast Dominique Dawes to explore the true cost of world-class performance and what it really takes to build a life defined by purpose, not pressure. From her history-making Olympic journey to rebuilding the sport from the inside out, Dominique reveals the sacrifices, struggles, and pivotal moments that shaped her mission to create a healthier culture for the next generation. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why greatness requires sacrifice and how to decide which sacrifices are actually worth it How to transform pain, pressure, and adversity into a mission that serves others What it takes to build a purpose-driven business without losing yourself or your family in the process If you are striving for excellence that lasts, this conversation will challenge you to rethink what winning really means. ---- Show Notes: 04:56 — Dominique describes the grueling daily training schedule that made her want to quit. 06:45 — She explains why young gymnasts often sacrifice their entire childhood for less than five minutes on the Olympic stage. 08:44 — Dominique shares why gold medals do not make her top ten life moments and what truly matters more. 14:22 — She reflects on signing a lease before the pandemic and pushing through the uncertainty that followed. 17:21 — Dominique discusses expanding her academy and how her daughter telling her she was working too much changed everything. 20:14 — She explains how motherhood shifted her definition of success and forced her to re-evaluate priorities. 24:32 — Dominique talks about why relentless achievement can lead to burnout and what real balance looks like. 32:44 — She contrasts old-school coaching adversity with the healthier culture she’s building at her academies. ---- Links & Resources: Dominique Dawes Gymnastics and Ninja Academy Larry Nassar Simone Biles ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 401. AMMA — From Girl Dad to CEO: The Michael Mogill Playbook 293. Elite Athletes — The Mental Edge: How Champions Overcome the Impossible 207. Patty McCord — How to Build a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility

What if the thing that makes your business unforgettable has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the people and purpose behind it? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Steve Carse, founder of King of Pops, to unpack how an idea became one of Atlanta’s most beloved brands. From pushing a single cart up the street to producing tens of thousands of pops a day, Steve shares what it really takes to build a culture-driven company, stay relevant, and scale without losing your identity. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why true differentiation starts with curiosity, courage, and a willingness to stand out How to build a brand that grows through authentic community connection What it takes to scale culture, empower your team, and expand into new markets Want to build something people rave about and love doing it? This episode shows you what it requires. ---- Show Notes: 02:34 — Steve shares why showing up consistently matters more than talent or timing 03:52 — The early fear that King of Pops might be a fad and how they pushed through uncertainty 07:30 — How artisan-level craft, sourcing, and process became their lasting competitive advantage 09:40 — The moment Steve realized the brand was becoming something bigger than a seasonal idea 12:36 — The challenge of scaling a beloved local brand into unfamiliar markets 14:07 — How COVID unexpectedly unlocked a new business model and created the cartrepreneur movement 19:39 — Why culture must be driven from the front and why leaders must care more than anyone else 38:24 — How becoming a parent changed Steve’s leadership, perspective, and purpose ---- Links & Resources: King of Pops  Work Is Fun by Steve Carse ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 406. How to Build a Law Firm Culture That Actually Works 370. — Why Playing It Safe Is Killing Your Growth with Verne Harnish 338. Will Ahmed — From Stress to Success: Optimizing the Entrepreneurial Journey

Feel like you’re drifting through life on autopilot? This episode will snap you awake. In this AMMA edition of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill tackle three deeply personal questions around identity, distraction, purpose, and reinvention. From the erosion of our collective attention span to the fear of starting over in your 40s, 50s, or 60s, this episode explores why so many high achievers reach a point where they look around and wonder how much of their life reflects their choices versus someone else’s expectations. With candid stories, tough-love truths, and practical reframes, Michael and Jessica break down how to reclaim your time, rediscover who you are, and redefine what comes next. Here’s what you’ll learn: How constant distraction is destroying presence, relationships, and creative thinking, and what it takes to rebuild your attention Why it is never too late to pivot, rediscover your identity, or pursue something that truly lights you up What successful attorneys actually do in retirement and why some people struggle to walk away from the work that defines them If you have ever questioned who you are, where you are going, or what you truly want, this episode will remind you that it is never too late to rewrite your story. ---- 02:34 — Michael describes the collapse of human attention and why people are no longer present in their own lives 03:04 — How constant phone use destroys meaningful connection, even during everyday moments like dinner 05:39 — The moment Michael realized technology was reshaping his kids’ habits and what happened when he took the iPad away 06:49 — A challenge for listeners: try an entirely phone-free Thanksgiving and notice how differently you feel 09:58 — Why people wake up realizing they’ve built a life based on expectations instead of their own desires 12:14 — You are not starting over. You are pivoting with decades of experience and wisdom 16:23 — The danger of retiring without purpose and why people fall apart when they have nothing meaningful to do 17:31 — What Michael would do if he could “burn it all down” and start something completely new, and why he chooses not to ---- Links & Resources: Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life by Bill Perkins Jensen Huang ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 384. Break the Mold: The Blueprint for Radical Reinvention with Todd Herman 331. AMMA — Failure to Reflect is Failure to Grow: The Brutal Truth About Staying Stuck 237. AMMA — Breaking Out of Complacency: Transformation Through Innovation

What would your life look like if you stopped seeing limitations as roadblocks and started seeing them as opportunities? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Kyle Maynard, world record-holding athlete, entrepreneur, speaker, best-selling author, and featured speaker at the 2025 Game Changers Summit, who was born without arms or legs yet has achieved what most would consider impossible. From climbing Mount Kilimanjaro to becoming a champion wrestler and mixed martial artist, Kyle shares the mindset that has allowed him to turn obstacles into fuel. This conversation is a masterclass in perseverance, perspective, and possibility. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why your limitations don’t define you, your mindset does How to build resilience through struggle and discipline What it takes to face fear, failure, and discomfort head-on If you have ever doubted your potential, this episode will remind you that your only real limitation is belief. ---- Show Notes: 03:22 — Kyle shares how his parents’ mindset shaped his view on adversity 04:10 — The story of how learning to eat independently changed his life 07:07 — Early lessons from football and why losing 35 matches taught him more than winning ever could 09:42 — What finally led to his first wrestling victory, and how it changed his confidence 10:58 — The long road from failure to becoming a nationally ranked wrestler 12:05 — Lessons from sports that shaped his business and leadership philosophy 12:32 — How training with UFC champion Forrest Griffin pushed him to new limits 17:13 — The climb up Mount Kilimanjaro and what it taught him about purpose and possibility ---- Links & Resources: Kyle Maynard No Excuses: The True Story of a Congenital Amputee Who Became a Champion in Wrestling and in Life by Kyle Maynard A Fighting Chance (2009) ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 353. How He Trained His Mind to Never Quit — Using Something You’d Never Guess with James Lawrence  314. AMMA — Turning Trials into Triumphs: The Art of Resilient Leadership 210. AMMA — Failure Isn’t Final: Lessons Learned From Setbacks and Struggles

What if your firm’s biggest threat isn’t poor strategy or weak talent — but misaligned leadership? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12–13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Jessica Mogill takes the stage at the 2024 Game Changers Summit to expose the hidden cost of poor leadership.  She breaks down why high performers don’t automatically make great leaders, how fear-based management destroys culture, and what it really takes to build alignment at every level. Through real stories from inside Crisp, Jessica reveals how small cracks at the top can ripple through an entire organization, and what leaders can do to stop it. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why your strongest performers can become your weakest leaders without the right mindset and training How to identify cracks in leadership before they fracture your entire team What it takes to rebuild alignment, trust, and performance from the top down Want to create lasting impact through leadership that lifts everyone around you? Start here. ---- Show Notes: 01:44 – Jessica introduces the theme: the danger of promoting top performers into leadership without the right mindset. 03:02 – Jessica connects “The Boys” to high performers who turn destructive without balance and empathy. 06:35 – “A crack at the leadership level is a canyon to the rest of the team.” She explains how misaligned leadership ripples across the company. 07:56 – Global cost of poor leadership: $7 trillion. Jessica shares how poor management drains performance and trust. 11:32 – Skip-level meetings reveal hidden issues. She explains how transparency rebuilt alignment. 17:08 – The story of “Casey,” the fear-based leader who created a culture of fear and disengagement. 24:57 – The peacekeeper leader “Lisa” avoids conflict, causing accountability to erode. 32:11 – The veteran leader “Jake” clings to the past and kills innovation through resistance to change. 39:35 – Jessica closes with her reflection: “What you tolerate today will become your standard tomorrow.” Links & Resources: The Boys (Amazon Prime Video) Developing the Leader Within You 2.0 by John C. Maxwell Kat Cole ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 388. From Hooters Hostess to $600M CEO: Leading With Grit, Humility, and Urgency with Kat Cole 240. Jessica Mogill — Why Hiring A-Players is Important 62. John Maxwell — Leadership is a Verb, Not a Noun

What do you do when there’s no one to turn to and every decision rests on you? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill answer raw, real questions from law firm owners navigating isolation, leadership doubts, and the pressure to stay strong when everything feels uncertain. From managing tough team decisions to questioning your purpose as a business owner, Michael shares why staying in the arena, even when you’re tired, scared, or second-guessing yourself, is the mark of true leadership. Here’s what you’ll learn: How to make hard calls when you have no one to confide in Why every leader questions their purpose and how to push through the low points What it takes to build a trusted community that keeps you grounded and growing When the weight of leadership feels heaviest, that’s when you prove you’re built for it. ---- 06:28 – Jessica reads a listener question about making hard decisions without anyone to confide in. 06:57 – Michael discusses isolation in leadership and why the Crisp Community exists to combat it. 10:12 – Michael uses a Reddit story and triathlon training as a metaphor for consistency and identity in leadership. 10:54 – Michael describes the moments every entrepreneur questions whether they’re cut out for this. 14:13 – Michael breaks down why knowledge only becomes power when paired with behavioral change. 15:19 – Michael explains why struggle is part of the journey and how adversity builds the next level of leadership. 16:44 – Michael opens up about decision fatigue and the importance of trusting your team. ---- Links & Resources: The Game Changers Summit Steve Jobs Tim Cook ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 387. AMMA — Stop Cleaning Up Their Mess: The Secret to a Self-Sufficient Team 363. AMMA — How to Master Decision-Making Like a Pro 331. AMMA — Failure to Reflect is Failure to Grow: The Brutal Truth About Staying Stuck

What if the only way to build unshakable success is to suffer for it every single day? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12–13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we’re throwing it back to the 2023 Game Changers Summit, where Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan Race, took the stage to unpack what it truly takes to lead with grit, persistence, and purpose.   From cleaning pools for mobsters in Queens to building a global fitness empire that nearly collapsed during the pandemic, Joe’s story is a masterclass in resilience. He reveals that doing hard things isn’t punishment but preparation, and that embracing discomfort builds the kind of resilience that separates those who survive from those who succeed. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why embracing adversity every day builds the grit required to win How to find your “why” — and use it to push through the toughest moments What it takes to turn pain, persistence, and purpose into long-term success If you want to build a life that can’t be broken, this episode will show you how to earn it. ---- Show Notes: 02:43 – Joe recalls growing up in Queens surrounded by hustlers and mobsters — and the lessons that shaped his early work ethic. 07:26 – The business advice Joe received from a mob boss that taught him the value of showing up early, going above and beyond, and never asking for money. 11:53 – Joe shares how his repeated rejections from Cornell taught him the power of persistence and delayed gratification. 18:46 – The creation of Spartan Race — how Joe turned his passion for endurance and suffering into a global fitness empire. 20:44 – Joe reveals how the pandemic nearly destroyed Spartan, costing $50 million, and why grit kept him from quitting. 25:42 – The story of the Japanese marathon monks and what extreme commitment looks like in practice. 33:48 – Why manufacturing adversity every day — through cold showers, burpees, and hard choices — is the key to building lasting resilience. Links & Resources: Spartan Race Tough Mudder Spartan Up! by Joe De Sena 10 Rules for Resilience by Joe De Sena Joe de Sena ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. —- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 364. How to Train Your Brain for Unbelievable Success 353. How He Trained His Mind to Never Quit — Using Something You’d Never Guess with James Lawrence 198. A-List Athletes — The Mindsets of Champions

Trust isn’t automatic. You have to earn it in business, in leadership, and at home. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill tackle three listener questions about trust, boundaries, and values. From finding the right executive assistant to protecting your peace as your success grows, and even raising kids who understand the value of hard work, they share the practical systems and mindset shifts that help leaders thrive both at work and at home. Here’s what you’ll learn: How to vet, hire, and build trust with an executive assistant who protects your time instead of draining it Why success can make genuine relationships harder to spot, and how to keep your circle strong and authentic The simple lessons and habits that prevent your kids from becoming entitled — even when they grow up with abundance Real growth tests more than your business. It reveals your values and your character. ---- 08:33 – Michael explains the trust equation and why trust must be earned before you hand over critical access. 11:06 – Michael lays out checks and balances for delegating finance, calendar, and email access to an assistant. 13:22 – Michael answers the “winner’s circle” question and explains why success makes authentic relationships harder to spot. 15:58 – Michael explains how to protect your time and prioritize what matters when every request feels urgent. 17:45 – Jessica reflects on the inner circle and why relationship quality matters more than quantity. 19:33 – Michael discusses the fear of raising entitled kids and why values, not lifestyle, shape gratitude. 22:16 – Jessica gives the bracelet example and other practical ways to teach kids the value of effort and money. ---- Links & Resources: The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz Atomic Habits by James Clear ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 401. From Girl Dad to CEO: The Michael Mogill Playbook 331. Failure to Reflect is Failure to Grow: The Brutal Truth About Staying Stuck 258. The Power of No: Setting Boundaries for Focused Growth

What happens when the nation’s most successful law firm owners debate where the legal industry is headed next? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12–13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we revisit the Law Firm of the Future panel live from the 2022 Game Changers Summit, where Michael Mogill sits down with Alexander Shunnarah, Anthony Johnson, Bob Tharp, and Eric Chaffin for an unfiltered conversation about the forces reshaping the legal industry and what it takes to lead in the next era. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why Wall Street’s arrival in legal services could transform how firms grow and compete How to use data, KPIs, and culture to strengthen your firm’s foundation before outside investors do What it takes to future-proof your business in an era of automation, consolidation, and client-driven expectations The future of law isn’t waiting — it’s already here. Are you ready to lead it? ---- Show Notes: 03:04 – Anthony Johnson explains why the legal industry’s lag in adopting technology will soon give way to rapid automation and smarter processes. 04:44 – Alexander Shunnarah shares how private equity and ABS investment are already reshaping the legal marketplace. 05:35 – Bob Tharp urges firm owners to overcome their fear of KPIs and treat data as the foundation of every decision. 06:32 – Eric Chaffin reveals how “doing good by doing right” became his firm’s rallying call and culture cornerstone. 08:19 – Anthony Johnson breaks down why data has surpassed oil in value and how information drives better firm strategy. 10:22 – Bob Tharp predicts the end of the billable hour and explains why clients will demand flat-rate pricing and cost transparency. 17:18 – Alexander Shunnarah discusses his firm’s evolution from pre-litigation to a full trial practice — and why brand integrity matters. 19:58 – Eric Chaffin shares a deeply personal story of overcoming adversity, proving that humility and vulnerability are essential to leadership. ---- Links & Resources: Alexander Shunnarah Trial Attorneys Anthony Johnson Bob Tharp Eric Chaffin Rocket Lawyer ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 372. The Surprising ROI of Doing the Right Thing with Chaffin Luhana 204. Alexander Shunnarah — The Thin Line Between Success and Failure 57. Bob Tharp — 1% Better Every Day

What if hitting your biggest goals is the very thing that makes you feel lost? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill unpack what happens after the win — when the goal you worked years to achieve doesn’t deliver the fulfillment you expected. From the emotional crash that follows major milestones to the deeper search for purpose that defines lasting success, Michael shares a personal perspective on how to realign your ambition with meaning before burnout takes over. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why achievement alone can’t sustain fulfillment and what your brain is really craving after success How to redefine progress so you stay challenged, inspired, and connected to a greater purpose What it takes to build a vision so big it reignites your drive and gives your goals meaning again You’ve conquered the mountain. Now it’s time to discover what comes next. ---- 06:30 – The danger of comparing your success to what you see on social media 07:46 – Why balance is possible, but only after you’ve earned it 09:46 – The price of success and the unseen sacrifices behind every highlight reel 12:32 – How to weigh big opportunities against their personal cost 14:06 – The story of Rick Moranis and redefining success around family and values 16:16 – Why achieving major goals can leave you feeling empty 18:57 – How to reignite your drive by setting a bigger vision that makes an impact ---- Links & Resources: Die with Zero by Bill Perkins  Rick Moranis Honey, I Shrunk the Kids Tony Robbins ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 329. Crush Goals, Not Excuses: Turn Empty Resolutions Into Results 317. Crushing Mediocrity: The Art of Setting and Meeting Higher Expectations 230. How To Achieve Bigger Goals

What does it take to build a brand so strong it outlasts markets, competitors, and entire eras of legal marketing? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12-13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of the Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we revisit the legendary Power Players Panel live from the 2021 Game Changers Summit.  Michael Mogill sits down with Alexander Shunnarah, Roopal Luhana, Joe Fried, and Harlan Schillinger, four industry icons who have redefined leadership, innovation, and influence in the legal world. From personal transformation and authenticity to the rise of digital dominance and firm ownership shifts, this discussion uncovers how the best continue to rise while others fall behind. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why staying on top requires constant reinvention and relentless commitment to growth How to build credibility and client loyalty through honesty and exceptional service What it takes to future-proof your firm in an era of non-lawyer ownership and corporate disruption These are the voices shaping the next generation of law, and this conversation will show you how to stand among them.  ---- Show Notes: 03:03 – Roopal Luhana shares why aligning with Pittsburgh Steeler Najee Harris reflects her firm’s values and mission of giving back 05:04 – Joe Fried explains how consistency, purpose, and fear management shaped his dominance in trucking law 09:26 – Alexander Shunnarah reveals why staying on top is harder than getting there and how constant reinvention keeps his brand strong 11:42 – Harlan Schillinger discusses why retirement is a myth and how passion and purpose fuel lasting success 15:40 – Joe Fried opens up about his personal evolution toward honesty and vulnerability in and out of the courtroom 28:33 – The panel explores non-lawyer firm ownership, hedge fund influence, and the digital future of law firms 36:54 – Roopal Luhana and Alexander Shunnarah emphasize how client experience and service obsession create long-term loyalty 44:25 – Each panelist shares the worst advice they’ve ever received and what they learned from it Links & Resources: Alexander Shunnarah Trial Attorneys Chaffin Luhana LLP Fried Goldberg LLC Harlan Schillinger Consulting Najee Harris Foundation (Da’ Bigger Picture Foundation) Joey Coleman, Never Lose a Customer Again Trial Lawyers College Crisp Game Changers Summit ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 406. How to Build a Law Firm Culture That Actually Works 372. The Surprising ROI of Doing the Right Thing with Chaffin Luhana 204. Alexander Shunnarah — The Thin Line Between Success and Failure

What if the only thing standing between you and the next level is the courage to take one more risk? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill and Jessica Mogill confront the real drivers behind success, risk, and sacrifice. As the 2025 Game Changers Summit approaches, they explore why some firm owners seem lucky while others stay stuck, and what it actually means to bet on yourself when the outcome is uncertain. This episode challenges every assumption about safety, comfort, and what it takes to build something truly exceptional. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why the firms that appear lucky are often the ones making the most courageous long-term bets How to break free from herd mentality and stand out in even the most competitive markets What it takes to achieve exceptional results without waiting for perfect timing or permission If you are ready to stop playing it safe, this episode will show you what happens when you finally bet on yourself. ---- 01:52 – How the Game Changers Summit began and grew from 100 to 500 attendees 02:55 – The evolution of the Summit into a members-only, sold-out experience 04:08 – Why keeping speakers secret creates a one-of-a-kind experience for Crisp Coach members 06:25 – Is success really about luck, or is it about courage and risk? 09:59 – The habits and reinvestment mindset that separate nine-figure firms from everyone else 12:45 – Why following the herd keeps your firm invisible in a crowded market 13:31 – How to differentiate and dominate without competing on the same message as everyone else 16:47 – What exceptional results really cost and why most people are not willing to pay the price ---- Links & Resources: Game Changers Summit Crisp Coach Program David Goggins Mercedes-Benz Stadium ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 405. AMMA — What it Takes to 10x Everything 344. Scott Monge. Beyond the Billboards: Crafting a Standout Legal Brand 305. John Morgan — Luck, Hustle, and the Art of Disruption: Building America's Largest Law Firm

Culture isn’t a happy hour or words on a wall. It’s the foundation that determines whether your firm thrives or fractures. As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12-13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of the Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we take you back to the 2021 EVOLVE Summit. Jessica Mogill sits down with the Game Changing Culture Panel, featuring Reza Torkzadeh, John Martin, David Craig, and Mark O’Mara. Together, they share how intentional leadership, clear communication, and the use of tools like Kolbe and PRINT® have helped them build strong, high-performing cultures within their firms. Here’s what you’ll learn: How intentional leadership creates unity, accountability, and lasting impact How tools like PRINT and Kolbe help firms hire and retain top talent that aligns with their mission How to reduce drama, strengthen communication, and build a culture where everyone thrives Every firm has a culture. The only question is, are you creating it or letting it create itself? ---- Show Notes: 04:30 – How Kolbe and PRINT assessments transformed hiring and communication 07:08 – Learning from cultural misalignment and rebuilding stronger teams 08:48 – Building intentional culture that attracts top talent 10:13 – Using data and assessments to eliminate unnecessary conflict 11:41 – Maintaining culture during rapid growth and remote expansion 14:49 – Creating engagement through shared purpose and community impact 24:52 – Non-negotiables for building a winning firm culture Links & Resources: Kolbe Index PRINT® Assessment Reza Torkzadeh David Craig John Martin Mark O’Mara Crisp Coach Program ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 342. The Missing Piece to Peak Performance with David Kolbe 361. The Hidden Blueprint for Creating a Thriving Work Culture with Josh Nelson 318. Legal Leaders — Game-Changing Insights to Build, Scale, and Transform Your Firm

You can grind your way to $1M, but you’ll never grind your way to $10M. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill break down what it really takes to 10X a law firm. From the early days of sheer hustle to the bold bets that build unforgettable brands, this conversation explores the mindset, courage, and leadership shifts required to make the leap from incremental growth to exponential impact. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why the grind gets you from $0 to $1M, but only leverage and delegation get you to $10M How courage-driven decisions, such as giving away a Tesla or booking a Super Bowl stadium, changed everything The leadership evolution that begins when you stop being the doer and start empowering others to win Exponential growth is not about working harder. It is about thinking bigger and leading differently. ---- 05:17 – The grind that gets you from $0 to $1M and why it will not get you to $10M 07:38 – The shift from doing everything yourself to building leverage through people 11:30 – Why best-known beats best and how bold marketing bets changed everything 15:25 – The courage behind putting the Game Changers Summit in Mercedes-Benz Stadium 20:15 – How the pandemic forced a leadership evolution and shifted focus to helping others win ---- Links & Resources: Give and Take by Adam Grant Shoe Dog by Phil Knight Tesla Mercedes-Benz Stadium  PlayStation ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 403. AMMA — How To Scale Beyond Growth Basics 390. Passion, Process, and Pitmaster Wisdom for Law Firm Leaders with Rodney Scott 382. What It Takes to Build a $100M Legal Business with Chris Dreyer