The Geek In Review

In this year-end episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert are joined by legal tech experts Niki Black, Principal Legal Insight Strategist at AffiniPay, and Sarah Glassmeyer, Director of Data Curation at Legal Technology Hub, to recap the top stories of 2024. From the evolution of generative AI in legal tech to groundbreaking acquisitions, the conversation delves into the successes and challenges that shaped the year in the legal industry. The discussion kicks off with a look at AI's growing role in legal research and practice management. Greg recalls the controversial Stanford report that questioned the reliability of AI tools marketed as hallucination-free. The guests explore the importance of unbiased evaluations, the complexity of defining legal research, and the rapid pace of AI development that often outpaces regulatory and academic studies. Sarah highlights the need for peer-reviewed analysis to guide the effective use of these tools, while Niki emphasizes the user-friendly interfaces that generative AI brings to legal software. Marlene shifts the conversation toward the challenges of integrating AI into law firms’ existing frameworks. The hosts and guests discuss the hesitancy of document management systems to adopt generative AI due to trust and security concerns. Niki and Sarah examine how firms are adapting to AI by organizing data more effectively and addressing client expectations. They also reflect on the potential of AI to bridge access-to-justice gaps, with tools that empower self-represented litigants and underserved communities. The episode takes a closer look at notable mergers and acquisitions in 2024, such as Bloomberg’s acquisition of Dashboard Legal and Thomson Reuters’ purchase of SafeSign Technologies. Sarah raises concerns about the consolidation of the legal tech market, warning of diminished innovation and competition. Niki observes how cloud-based technologies have facilitated these integrations, making it easier for companies to offer comprehensive solutions that touch multiple aspects of legal practice. Wrapping up, the group forecasts trends for 2025, including regulatory developments around AI and shifting priorities within law firms regarding tech adoption. While some predictions are cautious, like Sarah’s concern over the impact of external political factors on the tech workforce, others remain optimistic about the growing sophistication of legal tech. The episode concludes with reflections on how the industry can better prepare junior lawyers and law students to navigate an increasingly AI-driven landscape. Join Marlene, Greg, Niki, and Sarah for this insightful look back at 2024 and an exciting glimpse into the year ahead. As always, we thank our listeners for tuning in, and we encourage you to share this episode with colleagues and connect with us on LinkedIn or Blue Sky! Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: [email protected]: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   TRANSCRIPT

This week we welcome back Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions to discuss their latest innovation, the PROWESS platform. This newly launched tool aims to transform the way corporate legal departments manage and evaluate their relationships with outside counsel. As Leopard Solutions embarks on this new phase after its acquisition by SurePoint, Laura and Phil delve into how PROWESS brings unprecedented capabilities to legal teams by centralizing data, enhancing decision-making, and simplifying the selection process of legal talent. Laura explains that the PROWESS platform was born out of the need to streamline the outdated methods many in-house legal teams use to locate outside counsel. Rather than relying on personal contacts or spreadsheets, PROWESS leverages Leopard Solutions' extensive database of over 6,000 law firms to offer data-driven insights. The platform allows legal departments to search for attorneys and law firms by specialization, diversity metrics, and even billing structures, providing a comprehensive overview that helps corporate counsel make informed, strategic choices for their legal needs. One of the key features of PROWESS is its 360-degree firm report and ranking system, powered by Leopard Solutions' unique data-driven methodology. Phil explains how the platform’s rankings go beyond traditional metrics, focusing on firm growth, retention, and diversity within the attorney ranks. By incorporating continuous updates and client feedback, the ranking system serves as a real-time indicator of a firm’s standing in the market. Over time, the platform will enable in-house teams to provide feedback on engagements, further refining the rankings and enabling firms to showcase the quality of their work. The PROWESS platform also offers law firms an opportunity to proactively market their strengths. Law firms can contribute their own data to the platform, such as alternative fee arrangements and attorney billing rates, which helps them stand out in searches. Laura and Phil highlight how this “passive marketing” tool allows firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, as corporate clients can explore and assess options they may not have previously considered. Phil emphasizes that this feature is particularly valuable for smaller and mid-sized firms, allowing them to compete alongside larger firms by showcasing their specific expertise. In closing, Laura and Phil share their vision for the future of PROWESS. They envision it evolving into a more comprehensive marketplace, potentially allowing firms to bid on posted matters. Both are excited about the potential for increased transparency and efficiency in the legal industry as PROWESS matures, facilitating stronger relationships between law firms and in-house legal teams. With plans to integrate AI-driven features and client feedback mechanisms, Leopard Solutions is poised to shape the future of legal talent management and engagement.   Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: [email protected]: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  

This week, we talk with a team of innovation leaders from the law firm Faegre Drinker. The guests included Shawn Swearingen, Chief Innovation Officer; David Gross, Design Lab co-founder; and Ruben Gonzalez, Design Lab Director. The discussion centered around the relaunch of Faegre Drinker's Legal Design Lab in Scottsdale, Arizona, exploring its origins, evolution, and impact on legal problem-solving. The Legal Design Lab's inception traces back eight or nine years when an associate at the firm, Helen Chacon, reconnected with her Stanford Law School friend Margaret Hagan, who was pioneering the concept of legal design. Intrigued by the idea of applying design thinking—a user-focused, empathetic approach to problem-solving long used in other industries—to the legal field, the firm embarked on a deep dive into the methodology. This included David (DJ) Gross auditing courses at Stanford's D-School and team members like Kate Rozavi designing courses on visual advocacy at the University of Minnesota Law School. The relaunch and relocation of the Design Lab to Scottsdale were influenced by several factors, notably the firm's merger that expanded its geographic footprint and the practical considerations brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic. The move allowed the firm to acquire a significantly larger and more cost-effective space. With input from architects, designers, and Margaret Hagan herself, the new lab was designed to be a flexible, creative environment featuring movable furniture and an industrial aesthetic, fostering collaboration and innovation. Throughout the podcast, the team shared concrete examples of how design thinking has been instrumental in solving complex legal challenges. One such example involved simplifying a profitability tool for lawyers by using a color-coded system akin to credit score reports, making it more accessible and actionable. Another highlighted the use of tennis balls to demystify crystallography during a jury trial, showcasing how visual aids and empathetic explanations can lead to successful outcomes. These instances underscore the lab's focus on user-centric solutions and visual advocacy to enhance understanding and efficiency in legal processes. The guests also discussed the challenges of integrating design thinking within the traditional legal framework, particularly in encouraging open-mindedness and collaborative participation among lawyers and clients. They emphasized the importance of a learning mindset, active listening, and the willingness to embrace creativity and risk-taking. To further disseminate these ideas, the team mentioned an eBook available on their website, aimed at introducing legal professionals to design thinking and visual advocacy concepts. Links: Faegre Drinker Design Lab video Faegre Drinker Picks Arizona for the Next-Gen Design Lab, American Lawyer E-book – Design Thinking and Visual Advocacy for Lawyers Two Point Oh! (FREE) Innovations in Visual Advocacy – Leading the way for design thinking in law, Harvard Law School Center on the Legal Profession.  Advancing Company Goals – Design sprints that unlock Innovation, Corporate Counsel. Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: [email protected] Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Transcript

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer, along with special co-host Toby Brown of DV8 Legal Strategies, discuss the subscription-based legal services model with Mathew Kerbis, founder of Subscription Attorney, LLC, and Jack Shelton, co-founder of Aegis Space Law. The guests share their experiences and insights on adopting a subscription-based model as an alternative to the traditional billable hour. Mathew Kerbis explains that his inspiration for transitioning to a subscription and flat fee model stemmed from the realization that many attorneys, including himself, could not afford their own billable rates. He emphasizes the importance of automating processes and leveraging technology to manage workflow and client needs efficiently, especially when offering lower-priced services. Jack Shelton, whose firm focuses on the commercial space industry, shares his motivation for adopting a subscription model. He highlights the benefits of predictability and cost transparency for clients, particularly startups and small to medium-sized businesses. Shelton also discusses the development of in-house software to streamline complex analyses and improve accuracy and record-keeping for clients. The guests explore the challenges and opportunities of scaling and sustaining a subscription-based model. Kerbis notes that the model is highly sustainable due to the predictability of monthly recurring revenue, while Shelton emphasizes the importance of refining processes and forms to ensure efficiency and effectiveness. Looking to the future, Kerbis predicts that the rapid advancement of AI and the changing nature of legal practice will lead to a significant shift in the industry within the next five years. He suggests that if big law firms do not adapt, there may be a mass exodus of young associates seeking better work-life balance and the opportunity to start their own practices. Shelton, while agreeing with Kerbis to an extent, remains cautious about predicting a flood of lawyers leaving big law due to their risk-averse nature. Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Contact Us:  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: [email protected]: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript

Paul Lee, co-founder and CEO of Patlytics, joins Greg Lambert to explain how an AI platform built specifically for intellectual property work is changing the patent lifecycle. Patlytics supports workflows spanning patent drafting, prior art analysis, office action responses, portfolio management, litigation readiness, and claim-chart preparation. Lee reports that the company now works with roughly 55 percent of the Am Law 100 and hundreds of corporations across technology, biotechnology, pharmaceuticals, and other patent-intensive industries.Lee traces Patlytics’ origins to his experience as a venture capitalist and more than 100 conversations with patent attorneys. Those interviews exposed a practice filled with expensive, labor-intensive processes, from drafting detailed patent specifications to constructing claim charts for litigation. His interest also grew from the Apple and Samsung patent battles, the IP expenses faced by venture-backed companies, and conversations with Patlytics co-founder Arthur Jen and former Latham & Watkins patent litigator Bob Steinberg.The conversation turns to Patlytics’ work involving USPTO patent examiners and the broader effect of placing AI on both sides of the examination process. While confidentiality limits the details Lee discusses, he identifies quality and the examination backlog as two areas where specialized technology offers meaningful assistance. He also contrasts Patlytics with broad legal AI platforms such as Harvey and Legora, arguing that patent professionals need tools designed for the precision, technical detail, and specialized workflows of IP practice.Human judgment stays central to Lee’s vision. Patent attorneys still own the work product, approve key decisions, and remain responsible when an AI-generated analysis falls short. At the same time, client expectations continue to rise. Clients want faster work, higher quality, and lower costs, while law firms need sustainable margins. Lee sees flat-fee arrangements and more predictable workflows as one route toward sharing the “AI dividend” between clients and their outside counsel. In-house teams also gain more capacity for infringement analysis, patent-portfolio reviews during M&A, cross-licensing strategy, and litigation preparation.Looking ahead, Lee describes a striking change in attitude among patent professionals, from widespread skepticism a year ago to broad optimism today. His crystal-ball concern is less about whether lawyers will adopt AI and more about whether its economics will hold together. As free experimentation gives way to consumption-based pricing, firms will need to measure the value of each workflow and avoid spending $50,000 in AI costs on a $5,000 matter. Token maxing had its moment. ROI gets the next meeting invitation.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠Substack⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]Email: [email protected]: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript