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Presented by the James M. and Cathleen D. Stone Center for Research on Wealth Inequality and Mobility at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy, The Inequality Podcast brings together scholars across disciplines to discuss the causes and consequences of inequality and strategies to promote economic mobility. This podcast is hosted by economists Steven Durlauf and Damon Jones, psychologist Ariel Kalil, and sociologist Geoff Wodtke.
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When it comes to inheritance, prosperity and adversity are two sides of the same coin. Inheritance can allow parents to pass economic security and opportunity to their children. But inheritance can also transmit disadvantages. The children of low-income parents may live in under-resourced neighborhoods, attend low-performing schools, receive inadequate health care, and overall be offered limited pathways for mobility. So to what extent is inequality itself inherited? And how might that process differ around the world?Francisco “Chico” Ferreira is the Amartya Sen Professor of Inequality Studies at the London School of Economics, where he is also Director of the International Inequalities Institute. Before that, he had a long career at the World Bank, including serving as Chief Economist for the Africa Region. In this episode, he discusses his work on rethinking how intergenerational mobility ought to be conceptualized with host Steven Durlauf, comparing how inherited inequality manifests differently in the United States, Europe, Latin America, and Africa.
Many undergraduates study the economy in depth only once: in an introductory survey course. But a traditional “Econ 101" syllabus can omit vital topics, including inequality and climate change. These subjects are often left for later courses, which most students will never take.Wendy Carlin is a professor of economics at University College London, where she co-directs the UCL Stone Center. She oversees CORE Econ, a project that aims to refocus the undergraduate economics curriculum on “the most important problems faced by our societies,” including injustice, climate and the future of work. On this episode, Carlin discusses the CORE Econ initiative and her research with host Steven Durlauf.
Some 300 years after his birth, Adam Smith remains a towering figure in economic thought — and one whose ideas are often oversimplified. While Smith is rightly remembered as a champion of free markets, he also wrote extensively about those left behind by unfettered capitalism, articulating a moral philosophy not nearly as well known as “the invisible hand.”Eric Schliesser is a professor of political science at the University of Amsterdam. His book, Adam Smith: Systematic Philosopher and Public Thinker, reintroduces contemporary readers to a forgotten side of Smith, one interested in inequality and political power. Schliesser speaks with host Steven Durlauf about this aspect of Smith’s work, as well as the decline of the economist-as-moral-philosopher.
In every corner of the world, right-wing and even centrist policymakers voice a similar argument: that raising taxes will lead high earners to flee. In the United States, fear of tax flight looms large in blue states, where lawmakers worry local millionaires will decamp for tax havens like Florida and Texas. But research shows that even in states like Illinois, New York and California, millionaires tend to stay put. Why?Cristobal Young, a sociologist at Cornell and the author of The Myth of Millionaire Tax Flight, argues that even in this era of remote work, the wealthy still rely on local assets: professional networks, concentrated expertise, and more. Drawing on insights from anonymized tax returns and census data, Young documents the reasons that the rich tend to stay in high-tax states despite having the resources and incentives to flee. On this episode, Young discusses his work and its implications for inequality with hosts Steven Durlauf and Geoff Wodtke.
Few policy areas generate the level of charged debate that education policy does. For parents and teachers alike, issues such as school choice, standardized testing, and discipline have persisted as political lightning rods. In such a contentious environment, finding evidence-based solutions is essential to improving both decision-making and educational outcomes.Caterina Calsamiglia is an ICREA Research Professor and the group leader of the Computational Social Science and Humanities unit at the Barcelona Supercomputing Center (BSC), where she also leads the Welfare and Equity Group. In this conversation, Calsamiglia and host Steven Durlauf discuss her research into school choice, testing and more.
Whatever a country’s level of income inequality, its level of wealth inequality is even worse. In fact, in many countries there is no correlation between the level of income inequality and wealth inequality. So if differences in income aren’t the main factor driving wealth inequality, what is?Fabian Pfeffer is a professor of sociology at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University (LMU) Munich where he holds the Chair for Social Inequality and Social Structures. He is the founding director of the Munich International Stone Center for Inequality Research. Before that, he was the founding director of the Center for Inequality Dynamics at the University of Michigan. In this conversation, Pfeffer and host Steven Durlauf discuss wealth inequality dynamics across nations and generations.
In traditional economic models, individuals have one overriding motivation: utility. While this utility-maximizing paradigm has its advantages, it risks overlooking other forces that shape individual decision-making. One such force is group identity. Whereas a utility-maximizing model emphasizes what one wants, an identity-based model might emphasize what one believes they should want — because of who they are.Rachel Kranton is the James B. Duke Professor of Economics at Duke University, where she specializes in how institutions and social forces affect economic outcomes. Her work has helped build the foundation for an approach to economics that incorporates identity, transforming the way economists understand individual decision-making. She joins hosts Steven Durlauf and Ariel Kalil to discuss her identity-based approach to studies of schools, gender dynamics, workplace culture, and more.
The most complete measures of inequality consider the full life-course of an individual, from childhood to adulthood, and from adulthood to old age. One determinant of life outcomes is education, particularly whether one has obtained a college degree. Research has shown clear benefits of earning a diploma. But many qualified young people do not pursue one. Why?Today on the show, we present two conversations that address this question. First, host Steven Durlauf is joined by Salvador Navarro, professor of economics at the University of Western Ontario and a Stone Center affiliate. They discuss his research into the complex set of factors that lead some students not to attend college. Then, Steven is joined by Stephen Trejo, a professor of economics at the University of Texas at Austin and a leading expert on the economic standing of Hispanic Americans. They discuss why college graduation rates have remained stubbornly low among the children and grandchildren of Hispanic immigrants.
Some of the most heated debates in American life center on how much intergenerational inequality is influenced by historical context. Inequality, of course, doesn’t come out of nowhere—history always exerts some influence—but to what extent are today’s ills attributable to those of the past?The challenge for scholars is to pinpoint the exact mechanisms through which decades- or centuries-old forces persist. The past may not be dead—so how does it live on, empirically?Deirdre Bloome, Professor of Public Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School and Faculty Member at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, joins host Steven Durlauf to discuss her work measuring the historical evolution of racial inequalities in the family and the economy, and their lasting impact on mobility.”
Decades after the end of Jim Crow, residential segregation remains a major factor in American life. The historical causes of this are well-known; less so are the ongoing forces that maintain segregation, despite progress made in other areas. For example, why do so many more high-income Black households live in low-income neighborhoods when compared to their affluent white counterparts? What drives this and other forms of 21st-century segregation?Dionissi Aliprantis is a Research Fellow at the Center for Economic Research on Governance, Inequality and Conflict (CERGIC) at the École Normale Supérieure (ENS) de Lyon in France. His research has focused on identifying neighborhood effects, quantifying the factors contributing to the racial wealth gap, and more. He joins host Steven Durlauf to discuss segregation, neighborhood effects, and the methodological challenges in studying them.
Traditional economic models often rely on tidy assumptions: rational agents, stable equilibria, linear relationships and so on. But those models can struggle to capture the messy reality of actual systems. Societies are constantly evolving. Assumptions can shift. And isolating the variables that underlie such changes can be daunting.Scott Page is the John Seely Brown Distinguished University Professor of Complexity, Social Science, and Management at the University of Michigan. He joins host Steven Durlauf to discuss the relatively brief history of complex systems thinking and its impact on the social sciences. They also discuss Page’s work on diversity and its capacity to create more robust systems.
The United States doesn’t have enough affordable housing. It has also failed to adequately address the climate crisis. These statements may not appear connected in any obvious way, but addressing one crisis inevitably leads to questions about the other. How do we build millions of new homes without leaving a massive carbon footprint? Perhaps one answer is to retrofit. But if cities fund eco-friendly renovations in working-class neighborhoods, what’s to stop “green gentrification”?Daniel Aldana Cohen’s work sits at this intersection. He is an assistant professor of sociology at the University of California, Berkeley, where he is director of the Socio-Spatial Climate Collaboration and serves as a member of the Graduate Group of the Designated Emphasis in Political Economy. On this episode, he speaks with host Geoff Wodtke about how the United States might forge a way out of these twin crises, drawing on policy successes found abroad and in American history.
Economists are often accused of practicing a “dismal science,” a discipline defined by the sober measurement of humanity’s limits: scarcity, zero-sum propositions, and inequality. But the old stereotype overlooks a more hopeful side of the science, one in which economists resemble moral philosophers.Peter Boettke is among the foremost scholars of this latter brand of economics. He teaches at George Mason University, where he is the Director of the F.A. Hayek Program for Advanced Study in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics at the Mercatus Center. A disciple of what is often called the Austrian school, Boettke has written about how a society organized by classical liberalism can lead to human flourishing. He discusses the intellectual history of this philosophy with host Steven Durlauf.
For tens of millions of Americans, working life is characterized by uncertainty and limited recourse. Hours can be plentiful one week and fleeting the next, and often unpredictable, with shifts arranged on short notice, at odd hours, or canceled just as erratically. The prevalence of at-will employment amplifies this insecurity, as the threat of job loss—a potentially devastating blow to both workers and their dependents—is ever-present. Often powerless against corporate practices that prioritize shareholder value over employee welfare, these workers are vulnerable to job insecurity and diminished bargaining power.Today, we examine the unstable state of American work and how we got here. First, host Geoff Wodtke is joined by Jake Rosenfeld, professor and chair of sociology at Washington University in Saint Louis. They trace the history of the American labor movement from its midcentury heyday to its downfall. The consequences of the decline in union membership loom large over the second conversation, with Daniel Schneider, a sociologist and professor at Harvard. He discusses his work exploring the extent to which precarious work has hobbled American households’ personal and economic health.
Sixty years ago, equal pay laws, the women’s movement, and widespread access to contraception ushered in a new era, transforming the lives of American women. In the years since, women’s place in higher education, the labor market, and wider society has dramatically expanded. American women live with the legacy of that progress yet remain hemmed in by its limits.Today, we present two conversations that examine the past and present of gender inequality in America. First, we are joined by economic historian Martha Bailey, the Director of UCLA's California Center for Population Research (CCPR), to discuss the outcomes of War On Poverty programs and the rise of contraception use. Later, host Geoff Wodtke speaks with sociologist Natasha Quadlin, associate professor at UCLA and fellow of the CCPR. They dissect a particularly vexing aspect of contemporary gender inequality: that women now outnumber men on college campuses, yet still face unique obstacles when they enter the job market.
In the United States, meritocracy looms large. Proponents argue that one should earn wealth and prestige through hard work, intelligence, and ability. However, any defender of meritocracy should contend with its shortcomings. Lauren Rivera is the Peter G. Peterson Chair in Corporate Ethics at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School, and the author of Pedigree: How Elite Students Get Elite Jobs, a book-length study of hiring practices at elite banks, law firms, and consulting companies. What she documents are processes that often fail to reward the most deserving candidates and perpetuate existing privileges.In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, Rivera lays out the case against meritocracy as it is currently understood, citing her work in Pedigree as well as other research that shows supposedly meritocratic systems failing women, racial minorities, and people with disabilities.
Thousands of years before the modern era, great thinkers were theorizing about economic inequality. Unequal conditions were a focus of both Plato and Jesus, just as it was for later thinkers like Hobbes, Rousseau and Marx.David Lay Williams is a professor of political science at DePaul University. His new book, “The Greatest of All Plagues: How Economic Inequality Shaped Political Thought from Plato to Marx,” traces some 2,500 years of intellectual history about inequality, drawing surprising new lessons from some of the foremost figures in the Western canon. In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, Williams discusses his findings and what we can still learn from these world-historic thinkers.
As this podcast has highlighted before, cross-disciplinary collaboration can enrich practically any investigation into the nature of inequality. It is hard to find more compelling evidence of this than recent breakthroughs in the study of wealth inequality.Today on the show, we speak to two experts who have made fundamental contributions to this literature, in part by drawing on physics, math, and even Renaissance-era history.Our first guest is Alberto Bisin. Alberto is a professor of economics at New York University. He joins host Steven Durlauf to discuss how models of wealth inequality have evolved over time, as well as how recent models have successfully incorporated tools from the physics literature.Expanding on those insights from physicists, in our second segment, Steven speaks with Jean-Philippe Bouchaud. A physicist and mathematician by training, Jean-Philippe has long been a pioneer of “econophysics,” and his work consistently reveals novel, eye-opening ways economists can supplement their work using physics and math.
College athletics has tumbled into an unpredictable era. Money paid to players for their name, image and likeness has shaken long-held assumptions about what it means to be a college athlete. But although NIL deals have kicked off a new era in college sports, the tensions and conflicts involved are nothing new — nor are they unique to college athletics.Today on the show, we present a conversation that places the debate around paying college athletes into a broader context, drawing on the work of our esteemed panelists. The discussion, which was recorded live on stage earlier this year, features sports analyst Bomani Jones; Princeton Professor of Economics and Stone Center Affiliate Ilyana Kuziemko; Booth Professor of Economics Matthew J. Notowidigdo; and Professor Emeritus at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania Kenneth L. Shropshire. Damon Jones, Stone Center Associate Director and one of our show’s co-hosts, moderates the panel.
One of the most pernicious drivers of inequality in the United States over the past half century has been mass incarceration. Moreover, the consequences of mass incarceration have been borne not just by those held in prisons, but by their families and communities as well.First, Harvard sociologist Christopher Muller traces the historical roots of mass incarceration. He illuminates the close association between incarceration rates and the demand for labor, a relationship that has persisted from the 19th century American South down through the present day.Then, Duke sociologist Hedy Lee discusses her work on the oft-overlooked effects of mass incarceration on the families of incarcerated people. From the mental toll on spouses and children, to the nickel-and-diming of prison commissaries, the conversation catalogs a wide array of unexpected costs brought on by mass imprisonment.
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