The Inside-Out Podcast

The 12th episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Christopher Lee Lamoureux, who served 14 months in prison in British Columbia, Canada. Chris shares about his time before, during and after incarceration, and how his family, friends and culture served as a support network. While incarcerated, Chris had the opportunity to take part in the Vancouver Island University Inside-Out Program. Chris reflects on what this program meant for him, and how it impacted his life upon reentry. "To any folks who may listen to this, look for opportunities to support incarcerated folks. By helping to deliver a sense of purpose and meaning, it breathes life into hopeless situations. Thank you to all those who have made this a life's mission and a life's purpose. It's definitely changed the trajectory in my life. And I believe it's the case for anybody who takes this experience. It's pretty special." - Christopher Lamoureux This interview was conducted by guest interviewer Morgan Mifflin, and Inside-Out intern and recent graduate of Temple University.

This episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Dr. Gulia Zampini and Dr. Camille Stengel, who both teach at the School of Law and Criminology at the University of Greenwich in the United Kingdom. They both completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2017. Inside-Out courses have been held in the UK since 2014. For the past few years, they have been co-teaching Inside-Out courses at a women’s prison called HMP Downview.  The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by Dave Krueger from The Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program at Temple University’s College of Liberal Arts. To learn more about our Inside-Out Instructor Training Institutes, click HERE. To support the expansion of Inside-Out activities around the world, please make your contribution HERE.  Episode Transcription David Krueger: This episode of The Inside-Out Podcast features two university lecturers and three of their Inside-Out students from the United Kingdom. Dr. Gulia Zampini and Dr. Camille Stengel both teach at the School of Law and Criminology at the University of Greenwich in the United Kingdom, just outside of London. For the past few years, they have been co-teaching Inside-Out courses at a women’s prison called HMP Downview. Dr. Zampini and Dr. Stengel speaks with three of their outside students Maddy, Becca, and Amy. You’ll hear their voices after this word of introduction about Inside-Out from Tyrone Werts.  Tyrone Werts: The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program facilitates dialogue and education across social barriers. Inside-Out courses bring campus-based college students and incarcerated students together in jails and prisons for semester-long learning. These courses ignite enthusiasm for learning, help students find their voice, and challenge students to consider what good citizenship requires. Since Temple University professor Lori Pompa taught the first class in 1997, Inside-Out has grown into an international network of more than 1,000 trained instructors from across the US and several countries. Prisons and universities have partnered to create opportunities for more than 40,000 inside and outside students to move beyond the walls that separate them. We are more than a program...we are changing the world.  Camille S: Hi, I'm Camille. I'm one of the facilitators with the Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program at the University of Greenwich in London, England. And I've been working on Inside-Out in partnerships with a prison called HMP Downview for the past three years, and I've been working on it with my colleague, Guilia, who's also here. Giulia Z: Hi everyone. I'm Giulia. I'm Senior Lecturer in criminology at the University of Greenwich, and I work alongside Camille on Inside-Out. We've had our partnership for three years and it's been an amazing and inspiring journey and today we have with us three of our students who have taken Inside-Out and they're outside students and they're joining us today just to talk about their experience with Inside Out. So we're really excited. Do you guys want to introduce yourselves? Becca: I'm Becca. I'm a second year criminology student at University of Greenwich. Amy: I’m Amy. I'm also a second year student at Greenwich. Maddy: I'm Maddy and I'm also a second year criminology student at Greenwich. Giulia Z: I think you can say third year now. Becca: Yeah, my third year. Giulia Z: Excellent. Okay. So our first question is really about your involvement in Inside-Out and whether this involvement—this participation—has changed your future plans? Has it impacted your future plans in any way? Becca: Should I go first? Maddy: Yeah. Becca: For me it's made me want to stay within the criminal justice system and, and that, that's kind of, I mean, it's been a big influence for me. I think, I think as well that obviously it's proved to me how prisons really are. And I was really quite scared to go into work in prisons, because I was really quite scared that they were going to be a terrible place. And really, they're not, and I think that's one of the main reasons as to why it's influenced me to stay kind of within that region, the criminal justice system. Amy: I think for me it has not necessarily impacted in terms of career because there's small aspects in the criminal justice system that I wouldn't mind going into. This is just one of them. It's certainly shaped my life in general, it's made me become more open minded about situations and the privilege that I have as a person not being incarcerated. Like, a very humbling experience it’s been. Maddy: Yeah, I mean, for me, I would definitely say it has impacted my future plans. I mean like Becca, I would say that I was always quite scared to work in a prison. I thought like you never know what could happen. I really didn't know what a prison even looks like before Inside Out. And I would definitely say it has changed my plans because before starting uni and even before starting Inside Out, I never wanted to work in a prison, it wasn't an interest of mine. I didn't particularly feel that there was a lot of important work going on there. But having done Inside Out. I would say that was a very naive perspective. Like there's definitely a lot that you could do and a lot that the prison system could benefit from from working in there. So I would definitely say that it has changed my future plans and the career I'd like to go into. So, yeah. Camille S: Great, thanks. That's so interesting to hear about, it's yeah, it made you change how you think about your future career plans, but also Amy's point about how it's shaped how she thinks about her life in general. I was wondering if we could go down that direction a bit more and either Amy or Becca or Maddy, if you resonated with what Amy said about Inside Out helping her become more open minded and think about specifically that privilege of not being incarcerated. I wonder if maybe Amy, you could start and elaborate on what you mean by that, and Maddie and Becca, if that resonates with you, you could add to it. Amy: So, In terms of privilege, I'm referring to the fact that I'm not stuck inside the prison 24/7. I am able to go to university and I'm able to study and learn about the justice system and how it can be fundamentally flawed and people don't necessarily think of prison education as something very important. I think there's this mindset that ignorance is bliss and they sort of throw away the key once they're locked up and we just shun them leaving be.  Becca: Yeah, so I'm just going with Amy's point and I think before I started studying criminology, I had the kind of perspective that if you're in a jail or if you're in prison then you've done something to get there and Inside-Out completely changed my perspective. Completely because you go into the prison and actually they're not horrible people. They're not these horrible scary people that the media and other people make out criminals to be and although they may have committed a crime, it doesn't make them horrible people. So I think that it has made me understand my privilege in a way that I can get up and go to the shop if I want to. I think we've all kind of been in a position. Wrong place, wrong time where we could have ended up in prison. And so not always people in there as well are completely guilty. So, you know, I think that it’s kind of made me realize the flaws of the criminal justice system and how in my career, I can help put those wrongs right and as Amy said, I believe that prison education is absolutely incredible. And I feel like we need to get rid of that as young criminologists and criminologists together really and get rid of that stigma of ‘Criminals are horrible people’ and you know once someone enters the prison system society does just wash their hands with them. And I think it's, it's awful. So in my career, it’s made me want to, as an individual, change people's perspectives or change the general public's perspective. And that's why I'm so grateful for this program. For me that perspective, and to understand my privilege in society. Maddy: I mean, yeah, I would definitely agree with what you both said, I think one of the biggest things that all of us learn and like I think Inside Out brought out in it also is privilege. I think now I wouldn't use the term ‘lucky’. I think we all say, ‘Oh, I'm lucky for that’, ‘I'm lucky for this’, but I would definitely say it's because we're privileged now. I mean, obviously, like you said, we're privileged because we're not in prison. And I think many people would say, ‘Oh, I didn't commit crimes. Why would I be in prison?’ But I think it's more than that, like the prison system is flawed, the criminal justice system is flawed and I think we don't think about the people that are in there that shouldn't be because they'd have a lack of privilege. We don't think about the people that probably have committed crimes that are not in prison because of their privilege and like us, like Becca said, some of us could have been in compromising positions that could have got us in different situations and because of our privilege that hasn't happened for us. And I think to understand that and acknowledge it is the first step of helping because I think now that we know that from Inside Out that's brought that out in us, I think we can now move forward in our careers and use that to then help others. Giulia Z: Yeah, that's sad. That's a very, very strong sense that I get from all of you that you've really grasped the kind of fundamental principle of what Inside Out is about and that's really, it's a powerful thing to hear because you are young people and of course you are students of criminology, but I'm kind of curious about what maybe the differences between like what you learned in the books and what you learned in connection with other people in dialogue with other people in the inside out classroom compared to a traditional classroom, a lecture room

This episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Professor Tiffany Simmons, who serves as a Lecturer and Adjunct Professor at both Howard University and American University.  Her areas of study include criminology, criminal justice and law. Ms. Simmons also serves as the Inside-Out Program Coordinator for American University. Currently, she is the Special Assistant/Chief of Staff to the Deputy Director of College and Career Readiness, Professional Development, and Special Projects for the District of Columbia Department of Corrections. In this role, Professor Simmons has administrative oversight of the education, training and professional development of the inmates and staff.  She previously worked as an educational advocate/attorney with a focus on assisting many at-risk youth with their educational needs. Professor Simmons is a graduate of Texas Southern University, Thurgood Marshall School of Law and she earned her B.A. in political science from Johnson C. Smith University. The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by Dave Krueger from The Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program at Temple University’s College of Liberal Arts. To learn more about our Inside-Out Instructor Training Institutes, click HERE. To support the expansion of Inside-Out activities around the world, please make your contribution HERE.  Episode Transcription David Krueger: In this episode of The Inside-Out Podcast, I speak with Professor Tiffany Simmons, who teaches as a Lecturer and Adjunct Professor at Howard University and American University. Her areas of study include criminology, criminal justice and law. She also serves as Special Assistant to Deputy Director of College & Career Readiness and Professional Development for the District of Columbia Department of Corrections in Washington DC. Professor Simmons completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2016 and has taught classes combining students from American University and the DC Jail. In this interview, Professor Simmons discusses her work to increase access to education for incarcerated people and she also shares her desire to see more historically black colleges and universities involved in prison education, and specifically, Inside-Out education.  Tiffany Simmons:  It is imperative. And I say this as a person who is a two-time HBCU graduate getting ready to earn my third certification from the Howard University School of Business. And I also speak as a person who had a brother who was incarcerated. The narrative right now being told in the United States is that The majority of the people in prison, in jail and carceral spaces in the U.S. are African-American. And why It's important for the HBCUs to get involved in the conversation in prison education, one to act as role models, to let people know again that they are beyond the circumstances, and two, to create pipelines and gateways to education, because HBCUs are traditionally known for creating opportunities for those who normally or traditionally would not have it. So living up to the legacy that is instilled in us as HBCU students, and HBCU faculty members, I feel that responsibility to go and give back to those people because the people who are inside the facility are members of our community. Even if their address is different, they are still members of our community. And because of that, we have a responsibility to care for them and to educate them. David Krueger: The interview with Tiffany Simmons will continue after this word from Tyrone Werts.  Tyrone Werts: The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program facilitates dialogue and education across social barriers. Inside-Out courses bring campus-based college students and incarcerated students together in jails and prisons for semester-long learning. These courses ignite enthusiasm for learning, help students find their voice, and challenge students to consider what good citizenship requires. Since Temple University professor Lori Pompa taught the first class in 1997, Inside-Out has grown into an international network of more than 1,000 trained instructors from across the US and several countries. Prisons and universities have partnered to create opportunities for more than 40,000 inside and outside students to move beyond the walls that separate them. We are more than a program...we are changing the world.  (00:06) David Krueger: Tiffany Simmons, welcome to the Inside-Out podcast. Professor Tiffany Simmons: Thank you so much for having me. (00:13) DK: So why don't we begin by just having you share a little bit about your background and how you got into the type of work that you're doing now? TS: Well, initially, I went to law school in Texas at the University of Houston, Texas, After graduating I got a job in higher education, working in our office of admissions and also working with our FEMA students. So I did diversity services in addition to admissions and financial aid. I transitioned from there into working for a big law firm, Hunt & Williams, decided the law firm life wasn’t for me. I moved to D.C. and started work as an education advocate and juvenile justice attorney here in a local area. I did that for a number of years, working with a lot of children in the foster care system and also the criminal justice system and then transitioned into teaching. I initially started teaching at Howard University in 2009, and then American University 2013. And through my work as an educator and coming in and teaching classes inside the facility here, I was able to transition to my current role, which is the Chief of Staff for Amy Lopez, who was the Deputy Director of College and Career Readiness and Professional Development for the D.C. Department of Corrections. (01:35) DK: Somewhere along this journey, you enrolled in the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute. Why did you take the training and how did you initially get connected to Inside-Out? TS: Around 2013. One of the professors here came to start working at Howard. I am listed as a, I’m a part-time faculty member, I’m a lecturer, a professor at Howard. And she mentioned a program when she found out about my background in juvenile justice and child advocacy. She felt like it would be a perfect alignment with my area of research and just my experience, period. So I finally went in the winter in January 2016. I was trained alongside Lori and a bunch of wonderful people in my cohort and there started my journey. (02:28) DK: You've been able to teach the class a couple of times. Could you tell us about that experience of teaching Inside-Out for the first time? TS: Yeah. So my first time teaching inside out, I actually had the opportunity to teach it for both Howard and American at the exact same time. One class at American was Critical Issues in Justice and the other class at Howard was Police, Law and Society, which is kind of focused on community relations. Both classes were very interesting in the sense of, we were talking about critical issues of justice and how violence impacts society. The conversation was quite lively with my students from American University. That class, that particular cohort was global, so I had 14 students and out of 14 students, five of them were from around the world. So we had Ireland, Austria, we had Czech Republic, Russia and someone from Central America. So the conversation was deeper than I anticipated because we had students sharing their global perspectives. And of course, the Police and Law Society class was heated at times because police and community relations and the tension in our country, even now, you know, is a hot topic. So it was interesting and it allowed me the opportunity to kind of have two divergent points of view because the populations of my classes were so different, but still very quite engaging. I learned a lot about myself as well. I felt like this balancing the two programs at the same time was interesting, but challenging myself as a teacher. First time teaching in a carceral space, in trying to adapt how I learned and how I learned the pedagogy to really making sure it benefited all of the students I had in the classroom. (04:25) DK: So the D.C. jail, as I understand, is a bit different from a lot of other correctional facilities. It's not necessarily like a county jail, it's technically a federal facility, right? Could you tell us a little bit about what it was like to teach in that facility and about the inside students that you’ve worked with? TS: Absolutely. So the D.C. jail, as you stated, is a very unique, I guess, carceral space. We have local detainees who are with us for up to two years, one month. And then we also have persons who are federal. So they're either waiting to be adjudicated, meaning they’re waiting to go to court or they are coming back to us to finish their sentence out. There's also persons who are coming back because they're asking or appealing their sentence, so they're back on a writ trying to figure this out and if it can be reduced or they'll be sent back up to the federal. And in this particular space, we have the central detention facility, which most folks would identify with as just a traditional jail where you have your cell blocks, not much programming space on it. And then we also have our space for the central treatment facility, which is where we house our female, our women inmates, as well as the male inmates who are on a lower security and who are also participating in a specialized program such as rehabilitation and work readiness.  My initial time teaching in the fall of 2017 was unique because I had my American Inside-Out course at the CTF, literally teaching inside of a cell block. And then in my American, my Howard University class, excuse me, was actually inside the law library, the actual library space that is on the CTF side. The Central Chamber Facility is really great, it has actual classrooms that you would see in any local high school or university and a la

The ninth episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Dr. Xavier Perez, who teaches criminology at Depaul University in Chicago. Perez was born in Quito, Ecuador but came to the U.S. as a child. Despite early encounters with the juvenile justice system, he was able to to attend college with the help of mentors and community organizations. Professor Perez completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2019. His Inside-Out courses bring together students from Depaul and Chicago’s Cook County Jail.   The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by Dave Krueger from The Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program. To support the expansion of Inside-Out activities around the world, please make your contribution HERE. To enroll in an Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute, click HERE.  Episode Transcription Juwann Bennet: Hi, I’m Juwann Bennett and I teach Inside-Out courses at a state correctional institution through Temple University. Do you want your teaching to have a social justice impact? Do you believe that education should move us beyond the walls that separate us? Then you should apply now for our 2020 instructor training institutes. Locations include: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Alabama, Illinois, British Columbia. We still have space available for our West Virginia in January 2020. To find out more, visit our website at insideoutcenter.org or call 215-204-5163 That’s 215-204-5163.  Dave Krueger: In this episode of the Inside-Out Podcast, I speak with Xavier Perez, who teaches criminology at Depaul University in Chicago. Professor Perez completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute and now teaches college courses that combine Depaul students and students from Chicago’s Cook County Jail.  Xavier Perez:  So for us to be able to walk into that institution - I experienced something that I would have never thought would have occurred and it was - The level of academic rigor that occurred in that setting was unlike anything I had experienced other than graduate school. DK: I’m Dave Krueger from the Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program based at Temple University in Philadelphia. Stay tuned for the conversation with Xavier Perez after this word by Tyrone Werts. To read the full interview transcript, click HERE. 

The eighth episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Joe Schwartz, who served fourteen years in a federal prison in Pennsylvania. Joe shares how his experience of learning alongside students from Mount Aloysius College helped prepare him for life outside the walls. Thanks to Inside-Out instructor Professor Elizabeth Mansley and the Federal Correctional Institution at Loretto for making this class possible. To get trained in the Inside-Out method of education and dialogue, apply to one of our Inside-Out Training Institutes. To help financially support the work of Inside-Out and the production this podcast, click HERE.  The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by Dave Krueger from the international hub of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program at Temple University.  Episode Transcription Dave Krueger: In this episode of the Inside-Out Podcast, I speak with Joe Schwartz, who served fourteen years in a Pennsylvania prison before he was granted clemency at the age of 65. Joe shares how his experience of learning alongside students from a local college helped prepare him for life outside the walls.   Joe Schwartz: Transition from prison to home begins while one is in prison - it’s a process that starts inside and continues beyond release. The importance of the Inside-Out program is that it provided me a pathway to reconnect with the world.  DK: I’m Dave Krueger from the international hub of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program based at Temple University in Philadelphia. And this is the Inside-Out Podcast. Stay tuned for the conversation with Joe Schwartz after this word by Tyrone Werts.  To read the full transcript, visit our website: http://insideoutcenter.org/news-articles-PE8.html

The seventh episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Jeri Kirby, Chair of the Department of Social Sciences and Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Fairmont State University in West Virginia. Professor Kirby completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2010 with Lori Pompa and taught her first Inside-Out course during the same year. Jeri has co-facilitated several trainings in West Virginia and beyond. Click HERE to enroll in a training with Jeri in January 2020. Applications are due for that training by November 29, 2019.   The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by Dave Krueger from The Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program. To support the expansion of Inside-Out activities around the world, please make your contribution HERE. To enroll in an Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute, click HERE.  Episode Transcription Juwann Bennet: Hi, I’m Juwann Bennett and I teach Inside-Out courses at a state correctional institution through Temple University. Do you want your teaching to have a social justice impact? Do you believe that education should move us beyond the walls that separate us? Then you should apply now for our 2020 instructor training institutes. Locations include: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Alabama, Illinois, British Columbia. We still have space available for our West Virginia in January 2020. To find out more, visit our website at insideoutcenter.org or call 215-204-5163.  Dave Krueger: In this episode of the Inside-Out Podcast, I speak with Professor Jeri Kirby, Chair of the Department of Social Sciences and Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Fairmont State University in West Virginia. Professor Kirby completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2010 and taught her first Inside-Out course during the same year. Jeri has co-facilitated several trainings in West Virginia and beyond. What’s unique about Jeri’s story is that she teaches Inside-Out in the same prison system in which she served her own sentence for more than two years.   Jeri Kirby: I thought he was crazy because he wanted me to go back into prisons. But he just felt so strongly about.  DK: I’m Dave Krueger from the Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program based at Temple University in Philadelphia and this is the Inside-Out Podcast. Stay tuned for the conversation with Jeri Kirby after this word by Tyrone Werts. Tyrone Werts: The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program facilitates dialogue and education across social barriers. Inside-Out courses bring campus-based college students and incarcerated students together in jails and prisons for semester-long learning. These courses ignite enthusiasm for learning, help students find their voice, and challenge students to consider what good citizenship requires. Since Temple University professor Lori Pompa taught the first class in 1997, Inside-Out has grown into an international network of more than 1,000 trained instructors from across the US and several countries. Prisons and universities have partnered to create opportunities for more than 38,000 inside and outside students to move beyond the walls that separate them. We are more than a program...we are changing the world. For the full transcript, visit: http://insideoutcenter.org/news-articles-PE7.html

The sixth episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Dr Marietta Martinovic, a Senior Lecturer in Global Studies in the School of Global, Urban and Social Studies at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology in Australia. Dr Martinovic completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in 2008 and taught her first Inside-Out courses at Dame Phyllis Frost Centre and Marngoneet Correctional Centre in 2015. Since this interview was recorded in January 2018, she has also been teaching at Ravenhall Correctional Centre. She plans to coordinate an Inside-Out training in Australia in the future. The Inside-Out podcast is hosted by David M. Krueger from the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program at Temple University in Philadelphia.  To support the expansion of Inside-Out activities around the world, please make your contribution HERE. To enroll in an Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute, click HERE.  Episode Transcription Opening Music DK: In this episode of the Inside-Out Podcast, I speak with Dr. Marietta Martinovic, who teaches criminal justice at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology or RMIT University in Melbourne, Australia. Professor Martinovic took the Inside-Out Instructor Training in 2008 and taught her first Inside-Out course in an Australian prison in 2015. I spoke with Marietta to ask her about the challenges of setting up the class, the effects it has had on her students, and how she plans to expand Inside-Out in Australia and beyond.  Audio Clip of Marietta’s Interview DK: I’m Dave Krueger from the Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program based at Temple University in Philadelphia and this is the Inside-Out Podcast. Stay tuned for the conversation with Dr. Martinovic after this word by Tyrone Werts. Audio Clip of Tyrone Werts Describing the Program The inside out prison exchange program is a program that facilitates dialogue and education across social barriers. Inside out courses bring traditional college students and incarcerated students together in jails and prisons for a semester long of learning. These courses unite enthusiasm for learning helps students find their voice, and challenges students to consider what good citizenship requires. Since the first class in 1997 inside out has grown into an international network of nearly 1,000 trained instructors from across the US and several countries. Correctional and higher education institutions have partnered to create opportunities for more than 38,000 inside and outside students to move beyond the walls that separate them. We are more than a program, we are changing the world...  DK: So Marietta could you tell us a little bit about yourself? You know, where are you from and how did you end up becoming a professor in criminal justice? MM: So I moved to Australia when I was 13 years old and we left Bosnia as war refugees because a civil war broke out in the country where we lived so I was very lucky we moved pretty much before the war even started and have lived in Australia for the last 25 years. So upon resettling here I finished high school. I always knew I wanted to become a teacher but then I got interested in legal studies at high school and so I studied criminal justice and criminology and that got me interested in corrections. And so i developed a passion, really, to try and rehabilitate people, to help people, who are caught up in the criminal justice system and kinda things like that. DK: So how did you first get interested in the inside-out prison exchange program model of education? MM: So my very first job post-university was working as a community corrections officer which involves supervising people on probation and parole type orders. And so there I realized just how difficult and complex it is for these people to try and break the cycle of re-offending and offending, and to reintegrate back into society. But I also recognize the importance of criminal justice practitioners having empathy toward those caught up in the criminal justice system. So when I heard about inside-out and what it does I realized this would provide me with a unique opportunity to teach graduates compassion and understanding of this often maligned group of people. DK: You came to the united states to take one of these trainings. What year did you take the training? MM: I took the training in 2008, but I actually met Lori Pompa and the Graterford think-tank during a conference in 2005. And it was actually a congress of criminology - The world congress of criminology - which was held in Philadelphia, and there was an advertisement saying “as part of this congress you could spend a day at the Graterford prison” and of course, due to my interest, I jumped at that opportunity and I just absolutely fell in love with the whole idea. I was so inspired by the strength of the think tank’s real ability to provide insight into crime and justice, that I thought “I must do this”. So of course, you know, a few years later I won a teaching award, had some money and I got myself to the U.S. and got trained. DK: So how did the training impact you? Did it open up some new ways of thinking about the way you teach? How did it shape the way you became an educator? MM: I think it has made me a much better academic in all honesty. I used to do a lot of teaching as I was taught. Kind of a talking head in front of many students without too much involvement or discussion, you know things like that. Post the training, I completely changed how I teach, and once I started teaching inside-out classes I would bring inside-out examples into all my other classes so of course, you know, everybody kind of was exposed to inside-out directly or indirectly just because it is such an amazing way of teaching because it includes people, but it includes people in such a profound way it includes them in terms of equality, compassion, understanding, it is just absolutely amazing. DK: Did you face any challenges at setting up an inside-out course in a new country? I mean you took the training and you went back to Australia and you were really kind of on your own. What was it like trying to convince others and convince correctional institutions that this was a viable program that was worth being involved in? MM: Well I can tell you it was a very hard road. That took close to 8 years, you know, on and off me kind of pushing the barrel forward and to really try and get the program started. But, i was so inspired when I came back from the training in 2008 that I thought “this is just the best. It just has to be done straight away”. I faced many barriers and the first and key one was from corrections Victoria who said, “You wanna do what?” Well you know all they could see was all of these risks, all of these problems that could happen and I very quickly got the sense that this was not going to be possible. I went back to the university all disappointed and the university personnel and said “well you know we think that this is very scary as well” and I’m thinking “what's so scary??” Of course there's going to be some risks but they can be managed you know there are appropriate ways to managing those and so forth and so on. So, I faced a lot of opposition to say the least and then in 2013 I caught up with Lori kind of without too much planning and Lori just reignited all my interest and said “oh you should give it another go” because you all know Lori, she’s one of the most amazing people I’ve ever met, anyway - We had such a fantastic conversation and I went back to corrections and I said “Well how about it again, you know, after so many years you know, the program has grown immensely” and I was kind of able to show that and they said “Okay! We’ll put a call out to the prisons and we’ll see if any prison takes it up and 2 prisons put their hand up and the rest is kind of history so we started teaching - I started teaching in 2015, and it’s been absolutely life changing.  DK: And how many courses have you taught since 2015? MM: So every year I teach 2 courses and I teach males and females kind of at the same time, but they’re obviously at different facilities.  DK: Okay so it’s been several courses that you’ve taught? MM: Yes. DK: What kind of an impact do you think that inside-out courses have had on both your inside and your outside students? Could you say a little bit more about the long-term impact or even short or long term impact that these courses have had? MM: Yes, of course. So I think the inside students are really grateful about having an opportunity to discuss their lived experience of the criminal justice system. And of course they have so much to offer, they have amazing personal insights on how the system can improve, how it can be made better. So this then gives the university students a real unforgettable, life-changing experience about their future practice in criminal justice because all that they know up until that point is all from textbooks so in a way the textbooks meet the lived experience and that's where the two worlds gell so they both have something to offer to one another. So yeah, experience is just amazing and I think it makes them a much better, well-rounded, more ethical - most importantly - criminal justice practitioner once they obtain employment in the field.  DK: One of the outcomes of inside-out courses around the world is that a number of the students want to continue to meet and to work together beyond the classroom experience and many of them have formed what are called “think tanks”. Now in Australia you, as I understand, you run two think tanks: One is for women and one is for men. Could you say more about what a think-tank is and specifically what these think-tanks are involved with and how they came about? MM: Of course. So the first time I taught at the female prison, which is almost 3 years ago, the women basically themselves  at the end of class said, “we really want

"No human being should be defined by the worst mistake they've ever made."    The fifth episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features Professor Harold Dean Trulear. Dr. Trulear is an associate professor of applied theology at Howard University School of Divinity. He completed the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute in January 2018. Click HERE to apply for upcoming trainings in 2019.    The Inside-Out podcast is hosted Dave Krueger from The Inside-Out Center, the international headquarters of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program located at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA.    Episode Guide:    0:03 Host Dave Krueger describes the episode.  1:02 Tyrone Werts gives an overview of the Inside-Out program.  2:00 Interview begins with Dr. Trulear. 2:10 Tell us your story about how you became an educator? 3:23 You are also an ordained, Christian minister. What role does your faith or your theology play in your approach to criminal justice and education? 4:05 Why did you make the decision to enroll in the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute? 5:50 What is unique about the Inside-Out methodology of teaching? 7:08 Could you share about your experience of walking into Graterford Prison during the training? 8:43 Please describe the Ethics and Politics course you teach at the DC Jail. How is it different from the course you teach on campus? 11:11 Could you share some stories of student interactions you have observed so far? 14:48 What kind of an impact has your class had on your students from both sides of the prison wall? 17:13 Given your training as a sociologist, what kind of an impact do you think the Inside-Out method of learning has on the world beyond the classroom? 18:37 As it pertains to your teaching, what give you the most hope for the future?

The fourth episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features world-famous entertainer Nick Cannon. Nick is best known from popular television shows such as NBC's America’s Got Talent, MTV’s Wild and Out, and movies such as Drumline and Chi-raq. Nick recently spent a week at the Inside-Out Instructor Training Institute sponsored by The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program. Nick talks about his journey as educator, his heart for justice, and his passion to tell stories from those at the margins of society.    Also in this episode, you'll hear a spoken-word piece called Lessons from the Geese, recited by Kempis "Ghani" Songster. Ghani was recently released from Graterford Prison after serving 30 years.    The Inside-Out podcast is hosted Dave Krueger from the Inside-Out Center located at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA.    Episode Guide   1:30 Tyrone Werts Describes Inside-Out in 60 Seconds   The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program facilitates dialogue and education across profound social differences. Inside-Out courses bring traditional college students and incarcerated students together in jails and prisons for semester-long learning. These courses ignite enthusiasm for learning, help students find their voice, and challenge students to consider what good citizenship requires.    Since it began in 1997, Inside-Out has grown into an international network of more than 800 trained instructors from across the U.S. and several countries. Correctional and higher education institutions have partnered to create opportunities for more than 30,000 "inside" and "outside" students to move beyond the walls that separate them. Inside-Out generates social change through transformative education.    We are more than a program. We are changing the world.    2:27 Nick Cannon Discusses the Inside-Out Instructor Training Nick Cannon first encountered Inside-Out as a student of Dr. Bahiyyah Muhammad of Howard University. Dr. Muhammad teaches courses at the D.C. Jail, which combine incarcerated students and students from Howard.    In January 2018, Inside-Out facilitated its 52nd Instructor Training Institute. This training was held partly at the Pendle Hill Retreat Center and partly at the State Correctional Institution - Graterford, both located near Philadelphia. The training was facilitated by Ella Turenne, Lori Pompa, and the men of the Graterford Think Tank. Since 2004, Inside-Out has trained 830 educators from around the world, and the think tank at Graterford has trained more than three quarters of them. Nick Cannon was among the educators, who attend this training and he agreed to share his experiences on the podcast.    19:48 Ghani's Meditation on Lesson from the Geese In this last segment, you will hear from Kempis "Ghani" Songster. Ghani was sentenced to life with out parole when he was only 15 years old. On December 28, 2017, Ghani came home from Graterford Prison after serving 30 years. His release came in the aftermath of a Supreme Court decision, which declared it to be unconstitutional for juveniles to be sentenced to life without parole. Prior to his release, Ghani was an active leader in the Graterford Think Tank. While co-faciliting trainings and community workshops, he frequently took on the role of "the closer." He would often recite a poem or offer a meditation that captured the essence of the lessons learned during the day's gathering. As a gifted orator, and a man of deep spiritual insight, his closing words would often stir the imagination, and inspire people to persevere in the struggle for a more just and humane world. Here's Ghani reciting and interpreting a story he once heard called Lessons From the Geese.   Ghani recently received tickets from Philadelphia Eagles safety, Malcolm Jenkins, to attend the Super Bowl LII in Minneapolis. Read the ESPN article here.      Closing by Tyrone Werts: The Inside-Out Podcast is a production of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program. To find out more about the program or make a financial contribution please visit the website at insideoutcenter.org.    This episode produced and edited by Craig Stanton of Revival House Recording and Film. 

In 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court held in Miller v. Alabama that it is unconstitutional to sentence a juvenile offender to mandatory life-without-parole. A 2016 ruling allowed this to be applied retroactively. In practical terms, this means that those juvenile offenders previously sentenced to mandatory life-with-out-parole can seek re-sentencing by the trial court. That is exactly what happened to John Pace, Stacey Torrance, and Charles Brown. They were featured in a Philadelphia Inquirer article from September 6, 2017, about formerly-incarcerated "juvenile lifers." In this, the third episode of the Inside-Out podcast, Dave Krueger talks with them about their experiences of higher education in prison and the role that Inside-Out courses played in their personal and professional development.  Episode Guide: 2:25 --Charles Brown, Stacey Torrance, and John Pace introduce themselves.    3:05 -- You are all alumni of Inside-Out courses, which combine incarcerated and non-incarcerated students together for semester-long courses. Could you describe what it was like to meet the "outside" students on the first day of class?    8:10 -- What were some of the techniques in the Inside-Out classroom that you thought were most helpful to get students to engage in dialogue with one another?    13:26 -- How is the Inside-Out approach to teaching different than other teaching approaches you have encountered? What do you think are the attributes and methods of an effective educator?    18:23 -- Given the highly divisive political and cultural climate in the U.S. today, do you think the Inside-Out model of dialogue and learning can have any relevance in the world outside of prisons and jails?    23:36 -- What kind of an impact did Inside-Out courses have on you personally while you were living inside the prison? Do you think that these courses had any effect on changing the culture of the prison?    30:40 -- The three of you are just a few months into your new life on the outside of prison. What's next for you? What are you looking forward to?    36:43 -- Where do you see yourselves five years from now?  The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program: The Inside-Out Podcast is hosted by David M. Krueger and is a production of The Inside-Out Center at Temple University in Philadelphia. The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program is an educational program that facilitates dialog across cultural differences and social status. It started in 1997, originating as a means to bring together campus-based college students and incarcerated students for a semester-long course held in a correctional setting. This educational model has been replicated across the United States and in several countries. It has grown into an international network of nearly 800 trained faculty, 22,000 alumni, and hundreds of higher education and correctional administrators, who have sponsored classes over the past 20 years. Inside-Out seeks to bring about social change through transformative education. To find out more about the program, make a financial contribution, or apply to upcoming Instructor Training Institutes, please visit the website at insideoutcenter.org.

This episode of the Inside-Out Podcast features James Forman, Jr., a professor of Law at Yale Law School. Dr. Forman talks about his journey from public defender to law school professor and how the Inside-Out pedagogy informs his teaching. He'll also talk about his new book Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America.    Episode Guide: 1:30: Could you start out by sharing your journey from serving as a public defender to teaching in a law school? 5:37: How did you hear about and how did you get interested in teaching through the Inside-Out program? 7:37: What was it like teaching a class in the Inside-Out model for the first time. Do you think teaching an Inside-Out course changed how you taught your other classes?  12:54: Let's shift gears for a minute. You have a new book out, Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America. Could you talk a little bit about what brought you to write this book?  18:07: What do you think is behind this decades-long shift in our society towards mass incarceration? Why has locking up so many Americans become such an accepted part of American policy? 21:55: In recent years the public discourse about mass incarceration has been changing. Where do you think we stand today, especially in light of the 2016 election?  25:47: What do you want your readers to take away from your book?  28:37: How does education speak to mass incarceration and, specifically, why do you see value in the Inside-Out approach to education? The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program: The Inside-Out Podcast is hosted by David M. Krueger and is a production of The Inside-Out Center at Temple University in Philadelphia. The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program is an educational program that facilitates dialogue across difference. It started in 1997 and originated as a means to bring together campus-based college students and incarcerated students for a semester-long course held in a correctional setting. This educational model has been replicated across the United States and in multiple countries. It has grown into an international network of more than 700 trained faculty, 22,000 alumni, and hundreds of higher education and correctional administrators, who have sponsored these classes over the years. Inside-Out seeks to bring about "Social Change Through Transformative Education." To find out more about the program and learn about the upcoming instructor training institutes, visit: http://www.insideoutcenter.org/index.html    Bio: James Forman, Jr. is a professor of law at Yale Law School. He has written for The New York Times, The Atlantic, numerous law reviews, and other publications. A former clerk for Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, he spent six years as a public defender in Washington, D.C., where he co-founded the Maya Angelou Public Charter School. He is also a trained instructor in the Inside-Out pedagogy. Professor Forman, welcome to the Inside-Out Podcast. 

In this premier episode of The Inside-Out Podcast, the founder and executive director of The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program Lori Pompa shares her thoughts on how the program began and how it has evolved over the years. You'll also get to hear from a man named Paul, whose idea was instrumental in the birth of this program nearly 20 years ago. Paul is incarcerated in the Graterford Prison in Pennsylviania.    Episode Guide: 0:20 A description of the Inside-Out program 1:29 An introduction to Lori Pompa 2:00 Lori discusses how the program began, what is unique about the Inside-Out method of teaching and learning, and her thoughts on winning the 2016 Lifetime Achievement Award for Teaching from the American Society of Criminology.  15:52 An introduction to Paul from Graterford Note: from here on, sound quality is lower due to technical challenges w/incoming call from Graterford Prison.   16:30 Paul discusses the history of his incarceration and how he became motivated to become an educator. He also discusses the Graterford Think Tank and the impact that Lori has had on his life and the thousands of students around the world who have taken Inside-Out courses.  To find out how to enroll in the 2017 Inside-Out Instructor Training institutes, visit: http://www.insideoutcenter.org/training.html    About the Show:  This podcast tells stories from the Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program, an international educational program with an innovative pedagogical approach tailored to effectively facilitate dialogue across difference.  It originated as a means of bringing together campus-based college students with incarcerated students for a semester-long course held in a prison, jail or other correctional setting. This podcast is produced by the Inside-Out Center, which trains and equips higher education instructors to teach courses comprised of incarcerated and non-incarcerated students.   About the Program: The Inside-Out Prison Exchange Program is an educational program with an innovative approach to learning designed to facilitate dialogue across difference. It started in 1997 and originated as a means to bring together campus-based college students and incarcerated students for a semester-long course held in a correctional setting. This educational model has been replicated across the United States and in multiple countries since its inception nearly 20 years ago. It has grown into an international network of more than 700 trained faculty, more than 22,000 alumni, nearly two dozen think tanks, and hundreds of higher education and correctional administrators, who have sponsored these classes over the years. Inside-Out seeks to bring about "Social Change Through Transformative Education."