The Interop

Technical deep dives with the entrepreneurs and developers building the decentralized economics networks which make up the Interchain. The Interop is hosted by crypto investor and podcaster @seb3point0.

Solving the Interchain's Liquidity Problem with Mitya Argunov of Drop

Mitya Argunov, Co-Founder of Drop, highlights the need for a new liquid staking protocol in the Cosmos ecosystem, emphasizing its integration with DeFi partners to enhance liquidity and use cases. Drop, built on Neutron, allows users to stake ATOM tokens, receive dATOM, and participate in DeFi, with plans to expand to Celestia and integrate with other roll-ups.Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00 Introduction04:12 Drop Launch06:36 Droplets Explained10:43 Native Staking & The Interchain20:04 Another LST?28:23 Beyond the Hub: What’s Next?31:58 Future Assets36:39 Drop vs Milkyway40:35 Celestia Liquid Staking43:15 Liquid Staking Opportunities47:41 Drop Architecture52:43 Exchange Rate Secrets62:15 How to Use Drop TodayGUESTSMitya on XLINKSMitya Argunov of Drop on Future Is Liquid: Launch of DropMitya, Vishal, Josie & Edgar on Liquid Staking: Fractional Reserve Banking for Crypto?SOCIAL MEDIASebastien Couture on XThe Interop on X

08-30
01:09:45

How Orchestration Makes Web 3 Feel More Like Web 2 w Dean Tribble of Agoric

I sat down with Dean Tribble CEO of Agoric at Nebular Summit to chat chain abstraction, Agoric's implementation of Chain Orchestration and how these technologies improve applications and user experience in crypto.Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS00:00 Introduction01:17 Chain Orchestration08:01 Interoperability10:23 User Experience & Safety16:54 Crypto Regulations24:24 NFT's25:25 Building with AgoricGUESTSDean on XSOCIAL MEDIASebastien Couture on XThe Interop on X

08-07
28:28

Solving Ethereum Rollup Fragmentation with Austin King of Omni Labs

Join us on this episode as we dive into the future of Ethereum Layer 2 solutions with the CEO of Omni! Omni is revolutionizing the way developers build across different Ethereum Layer 2 solutions by providing a robust messaging layer and compute layer. By solving the fragmentation issue, Omni taps into liquidity from different networks, facilitating seamless cross-chain applications in the Ethereum ecosystem. Its architecture includes a secure messaging layer for roll-up communication and an EVM-based compute layer, ensuring interoperability and collateral management across roll-ups. Secured through restaking, with nodes offering services backed by restaked ETH, Omni's future looks promising. With advancements in AI and natural language programming, the landscape of alternative VMs like Move and Wasm could further evolve, enhancing the Ethereum ecosystem's capabilities. Join us in exploring Omni's innovative solutions for Ethereum Layer 2!Consider staking with Interop VenturesTIMESTAMPS00:00 - Introduction11:12 - Blockchain Social-Fi Apps and Their Relevance16:05 - Ethereum is Confused23:58 - Vision and Architecture of Omni30:57 - Omni as a Roll-Up as a Service Platform35:18 - Enabling Cross-Chain Applications with Omni42:40 - Securing Omni through Restaking52:15 - The Future of Alternative VMs56:19 - The Potential of AIGUESTSAustin on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

07-12
01:00:46

Programmatic Monetary Policy for Protocols with Max Einhorn of Valence

Valence enables programmatic economic relationships between protocols. This allows crypto-native institutions (e.g., appchains & DAOs) to engage in complex financial interactions.Valence is live today with two sub-protocols in private beta: The Rebalancer lets protocols set desired portfolio targets and efficiently rebalance over time. Covenants enable crypto-native institutions to lend protocol-owned liquidity (POL).A key innovation is the ability to create POL markets, which is crucial for restaking. Valence ensures AVSs know exactly how much liquidity they will receive, making restaking protocols more attractive and generating new revenue sources.Valence is to liquidity what EigenLayer is to security. Beyond restaking, Valence enhances alignment between ecosystems and drives the future of the decentralized economy.Learn how Valence’s crypto-native institutional debt markets improve cross-ecosystem alignment and drive the future of the DeFi economy.Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00 Introduction 02:06 Building Timewave & Valence 07:37 Valence Endgame 13:05 Bringing Institutional Capital to Crypto16:55 What Valence Enables 22:09 Rebalancer24:53 Covenants31:04 Expressing Intent 38:16 Valence Architecture 41:07 Cosmos Hub Outlook 52:17 Protocol Monetary Policy 58:10 Final ThoughtsLINKSValence ProtocolGUESTSMax on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

06-28
01:02:39

Bitcoin is Making a Comeback with Matt Ye of Lorenzo

Lorenzo is a Cosmos chain that leverages BTC shared security and enables liquid staking. In this conversation, Seb and Matt discuss the resurgence of interest in Bitcoin, particularly in the context of DeFi. They also explore the concept of liquid staking for Bitcoin and how it differs from liquid staking in proof-of-stake chains. Matt explains the architecture of Lorenzo, a Bitcoin liquid staking protocol built on the Cosmos chain, and how it leverages Babylon. They also touch on the different approaches to Bitcoin L2s and the importance of liquid staking to the success of the Bitcoin L2 ecosystem. Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩 TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:02:01 The Bitcoin Renaissance00:05:13 Technical Improvements Enabling Bitcoin L2s & OP_CAT00:12:51 Different Approaches to Bitcoin L2s00:17:58 Could Bitcoin Become a POS Chain?00:23:00 What is Lorenzo00:28:29 The Dual Token Model & Yield Sources00:30:36 Lorenzo Architecture00:49:14 BTC-Fi00:57:17 Current Status of LorenzoLINKSLorenzo Protocol WebsiteGUESTSMatt on TwitterMatt on LinkedInSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

06-18
59:34

Rebooting the Metaverse with Lex Avellino of Passage

Passage improves virtual experiences and collaboration, making them more organic and immersive and better reflecting the way we interact in real life. For creators, Passage is a platform that enables nearly unlimited creative freedom thanks to its use of the Unreal Engine. This allows creators to build unique experiences for their communities. How does this relate to crypto? The $PASG token is the economic foundation for a new creator economy where community members own their identity and digital assets.Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:17:09 Is the Metaverse Dead?00:22:06 What is Passage00:31:10 How to Use Passage00:35:39 Crypto-Enabled Communities00:41:29 Cosmos SDK Architecture00:44:21 Akash Partnership00:53:59 Passage Elite00:57:38 RoadmapLINKSPassage's WebsiteGUESTSLex on TwitterLex on LinkedInSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

06-14
01:00:37

The Interchain Application Layer with Adair Kelley of Abstract

Abstract is an Interchain app platform enabling developers to build across CosmWasm-supported chains. Apps built with Abstract get automatic integrations with Interchain DEXes, lending markets, oracles, and liquid staking protocols.The core infrastructure is the Abstract Account, a smart contract wallet extendable with Abstract modules. One exciting use case is mesh applications, where chains form an Interchain DAO to vote on and fund public goods at a supra-chain level.Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00 Introduction02:33 CosmWasm Berlin Hackathon10:14 Evolution of CosmWasm 15:20 What is Abstract 24:21 Security32:06 Abstract-JS 34:36 Integrations36:11 Modulars37:48 IBC Email40:50 Abstract & EVM apps GUESTSAdair on XAbstract on XSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

06-05
53:11

Interwoven Rollups with Stan Liu & Ezaan “Zon” Mangalji of Initia

Join us in this episode where we discover how Initia's vertically integrated tech stack seamlessly connects their L1s with application-specific L2 chains, enabling efficient inter-chain communication and solving the traditional fragmentation of multichain systems. We also explore the variety of development tools available (EVM, MoveVM & WasmVM), which simplify app deployment and significantly reduce the complexity for developers. Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:08:36 Appchains Debate00:14:35 Tackling Fragmentation00:17:31 Building on Initia00:25:05 Inside L2s 00:27:13 Role of Sequencers00:29:26 Scaling Limits00:30:33 L1s Services00:36:13 IBC Implementation00:37:57 Custom Modules00:40:06 OPinit Stack 00:41:59 VMs Integration 00:48:03 RaaS Market Competition00:52:59 Testnet OpportunitiesLINKSInitia's WebsiteGUESTSStan on TwitterZon on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

05-22
57:05

MONOLITHIC VS APPCHAINS with Eric Zhang & Brian Breslow of DoraHacks

Join us in this episode as we explore how DoraHacks advances the hacker movement. Learn about Dora Factory's innovative public good staking and decentralized funding infrastructures. We also discuss Dora Vota's role in enabling fair and private community governance through Anonymous Minimal Anti-Collusion Infrastructure (aMACI). Additionally, we deep dive into the appchain thesis and how projects benefit from running their own sovereign chains over building on monolithic L1s.Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:02:22 DoraHacks Overview00:10:51 Appchain Thesis00:20:11 L2s Thesis00:30:00 Cosmos SDK Evolution00:37:34 Solana Appchain Thesis00:45:58 Dora Factory & Dora Vota 00:52:08 MACI & aMACI Voting01:03:21 DoraHacks RoadmapLINKSDoraHacksMinimal Anti-Collusion InfrastructureVota: Special Purpose Blockchain for VotingWhat Will aMACI Unlock? Inevitability of UNIchainGUESTSEric Zhang on Twitter Brian Breslow on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien Couture on TwitterThe Interop on Twitter

05-15
01:07:21

The AI portfolio manager with Daniel Machlup of FortyTwo

Join us as we explore the innovative integration of AI in DeFi with Daniel Machlup from FortyTwo. FortyTwo is building the interface layer for cross-chain DeFi, tackling a critical challenge in the rapidly growing multi-chain ecosystem. The goal is simple, make cross-chain user experience easy for both users and protocols. Tune in to see how AI is reshaping crypto asset management, making it as simple as expressing your intention. Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:03:25 Building on Cosmos  00:05:45 Cosmos SDK Advantages00:08:33 Exploring FortyTwo00:16:03 Infrastructure Providers00:17:38 Solver Marketplace00:38:31 Architecture00:39:53 Wallet UX Enhancements00:42:04 Osmosis Smart Accounts00:44:14 Beta Launch OverviewLINKSFortyTwoGUESTSDaniel Machlup on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien Couture on TwitterThe Interop on Twitter

05-07
48:49

DeFi Risk Modelling & Management with Marijo Radman and Benedikt Eikmanns of Alterscope

Join us as we delve into the complexities of risk management in decentralized finance (DeFi), where Alterscope pioneers with its risk ZK coprocessor and zero-knowledge proof technology to tackle unique challenges such as liquidity and protocol risks. Uncover how Alterscope's advanced tools not only quantify new kinds of risks but also offer a dynamic platform for effectively modeling and managing them, including a detailed look at the crucial data sets used for assessing oracle risks to ensure DeFi's data reliability.Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩 TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:04:16 Crypto Risk Management00:10:13 Pricing Web3 Risk00:13:22 TradiFi vs DeFi Risk Management00:15:16 Understanding Alterscope00:21:42 Oracle Risks00:27:26 Risk Marketplace Participants00:37:41 Enhancing DeFi Yield Strategies00:40:53 Restaking00:46:08 Staking Providers Risks00:51:06 Impact on Future of DeFi00:55:30 Product RoadmapLINKSAlterscopeGUESTSMarijo on TwitterBenedikt on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

04-30
57:44

Decentralized Storage for IBC Chains with Patrick Dunlop & Marston Connell of Jackal

Discover Jackal Protocol in this episode as we delve into its decentralized storage solution, enhancing blockchain interoperability and real-time data access through its Cosmos Layer 1 platform. Learn how Jackal ensures data reliability with advanced redundancy and frequent verification, supporting a wide array of Web3 applications. Consider staking with Interop VenturesTOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:06:58 Decentralised storage00:13:45 DePIN is a hot topic00:16:06 Jackal - how it works00:25:47 Role of the Cosmos SDK module00:27:09 EVM Contracts00:28:37 Jackal Proof-of-Persistence (JPOP)00:41:13 Most exciting use cases00:46:44 Tokenomics & Economics of Perpetual Storage00:57:51 Interoperability & IBCLINKSJackal Protocol Jackal LabsJackal Proof-of-Persistence (JPOP)​GUESTSPatrick on TwitterMarston on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

04-25
01:05:33

ZK Proof Aggregation with Garvit Goel of Electron Labs

Electron Labs aggregates zero-knowledge proofs across protocols into a single superproof, which is then verified on Ethereum. Thanks to the use of recursive ZK proofs, this collective approach lowers verification costs to less than 1% of current rates. This is a huge unlock for applications leveraging ZK: Privacy, micro rollups, DA bridges, IBC, and more.TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:02:56 Cost of ZK proof verification00:07:10 ZK proofs & Rollups00:14:36 ZK light client00:16:52 Superproofs00:22:28 Electron trust assumptions00:24:14 Electron's Architecture00:31:27 Challenges00:34:38 Electron SDK00:44:00 Interoperability and IBC00:48:43 Union & Polymer approach00:52:55 ZK Proof endgame LINKSElectron LabsElectron Labs on TwitterGUESTSGarvit on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien Couture on TwitterThe Interop on Twitter

04-12
58:42

Securing Cosmos Chains with Celestia DA - Jack Zampolin of Rollchains & Strangelove

Rollchains introduce new ways to build, maintain and scale Cosmos chains. New and existing Cosmos SDK chains can enable the Rollchains module to post block data to Celestia. Built with POA chains in mind, Rollchains promises to reduce the cost of securing chains while maintaining a high Nakamoto coefficient, potentially transforming the tokenomics of chains that struggle to cover the inflationary cost of maintaining a validator set. TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:02:46 Blockchain gaming00:05:41 Cosmos design philosophy 00:12:15 Cosmos Alignment00:17:58 Why build a rollchain00:25:37 IBC & interoperability00:30:34 Rollchain Cosmos SDK module00:37:27 Rollchain DA support00:39:12 Roll Apps Vs. Rollchains00:41:41 Working with Ethos00:47:06 Long-term future of Ethereum00:48:58 Thoughts on Movement00:53:18 Polymer and Union00:54:16 Skip: Unsung Heroes of CosmosGUESTSJack on TwitterLINKSRollchainsStrangeloveSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

04-02
56:11

The Future of DAO Governance with Nicolas Biagosch of Q Protocol

Q protocol is a decentralized governance layer for Web3 that allows developers to build organizational constitutions that are enforced by smart contracts and include off-chain avenues for resolving disputes the code can't deal with. Built as a fully EVM-compatible Layer 1 for maximum security, the protocol is live with a full set of infra and applications supporting the ecosystem. It prevents governance exploits and reduces legal and regulatory risks associated with centralized decision making.TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:06:52 Governance by code00:10:44 Practical cases where DAO governance has failed00:19:30 What is Q and how does it make a difference00:22:58 Beyond Code is law00:27:15 The Q Consititution00:34:41 Stakeholders in the Q blockchain00:37:21 The role of the token holders00:40:57 Difference between validators and root nodes00:45:29 Expert panels and their roles00:47:58 Q Token holders' competence to vote00:49:52 The practical steps in this mechanism00:55:25 Do you need to build your DAO on Q00:57:16 Integration with Q00:59:53 Network stakes01:02:38 The worrying US tax system01:05:20 Discussion on decentralised AI01:08:02 DeFi is going nowhere01:12:47 Learn more about QGUESTSNicolas on TwitterLINKSQ WhitepaperSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

03-27
01:13:50

Cosmos Hub ICS Security Marketplace with Jehan Tremback of Informal Systems

Informal Systems is a Cosmos contributor that works on the Cosmos Hub, which is the first blockchain in the Interchain. The Cosmos Hub is one of thousands of blockchains that will eventually make up the Cosmos Network. The Hub's primary token is ATOM, but it will support many other tokens in the future. Interchain Security is one of the main services the Cosmos Hub provides. It enables other blockchains to be secured through Proof-of-Stake (PoS) by the ATOM token, which holds one of the largest market capitalizations in the interchain ecosystem.TOPICS00:00:00 - Introduction00:02:20 - 5th anniversary of the hub00:04:13 - Shift in the vision of Cosmos SDK00:07:59 - The role of a Cosmos Hub Lead00:12:44 - Business development and its role under Informal Systems00:19:32 - Shared security on the hub - Interchain Security00:26:19 - The shift in vision00:31:20 - The subset problem00:38:41 - The old way vs the new00:42:15 - The babylon partnership - additional security00:48:20 - How the hub competes in the landscape00:50:21 - Ethos and what they're building00:53:24 - Cosmos Alignment and how it's perceived00:55:46 - The end gameLINKSBabylon Bitcoin SecurityInterchain Security: Partial Set SecurityComos-Ethereum ConvergingAtomic composability - IBCAtom WarsSOCIAL MEDIA (Twitter)Sebastien CoutureThe Interop

03-18
57:06

FAIR TOKEN LAUNCHES with Simon Chadwick of Eclipse

Eclipse Fi is a revolutionary hub for interchain token launches, bringing the value back into the hands of early communities. Eclipse Mainnet, launching in Q1 2024, is the fastest Ethereum L2, powered by the SVM. With an architecture that combines the best pieces of the modular stack, developers get all the benefits of dedicated throughput with none of the downsides. Eclipse makes it possible to build applications that can coordinate masses of people and scale with any developer’s needs.TOPICS00:00:00 - Introduction00:06:46 - Terra's Collapse00:10:27 - the next cycle of token launches00:20:23 - Centralised vs Decentralised platforms 00:22:49 - Implementing KYC & compliance for projects00:27:15 - The vision for eclipse00:31:32 - Benefits of launching projects on Eclipse00:35:16 - Supported launch mechanisms00:37:47 - Reputation on the user side00:41:07 - CIBIL00:43:11 - How zkKYC works00:47:17 - Liquidity hub00:54:20 - Why Eclipse was built on Neutron00:57:29 - Roadmap for Eclipse FiGUESTSSimon on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIA (Twitter)Sebastien CoutureThe Interop

03-06
01:00:08

SLINKY ORACLE with Maghnus Mareneck of Skip

Skip Protocol helps sovereign blockchain protocols supercharge their blockspace to improve user experience, enhance interoperability, and enrich network stakeholders. The protocol has recently unveiled Slinky, an “Oracle” aggregator designed for perpetual markets and DeFi as a whole.TOPICS00:02:10 - Major Developments at Skip00:04:40 - The slinky announcement00:14:15 - Use cases for Slinky00:21:10 - The architecture and how validators are coordinating 00:25:11 - Levana Attack in relation to the architecture00:27:14 - Pricing and Slashing00:35:18 - Is there a compromise?00:38:16 - What vulnerabilities and attacks can Slinky prevent00:45:15 - The opportunity cost of using Skip00:48:36 - How it fits in the modular stack00:53:51 - Slinky:The Rolls Royce of Oracles00:59:18 - Slinky's origin and potential customers01:03:02 - ConclusionLINKSGitHub - Skip-mev How Slinky can prevent Oracle Manipulation AttacksSlinky: Twitter AnnouncementGUESTSMaghnus on TwitterSkip's WebsiteSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

02-13
01:03:58

CELESTIA LIQUID STAKING with Fabo & Jay B of Milky Way

MilkyWay is a liquid staking solution for the Celestia ecosystem, initially starting its deployment and operation on Osmosis. When individuals liquid stake their TIA coins through MilkyWay, they obtain an on-chain representation of their TIA staking position, termed as milkTIA. This allows Celestia token holders to access liquidity for their staked assets, facilitating trading or their utilization as collateral in different DeFi products.TOPICS00:06:27 - When did the protocol launch?00:07:43 - Growth and support from the community00:08:25 - Liquid staking00:10:09 - What is liquid staking evolving into00:12:25 - What is Milky Way?00:14:38 - Where can people use their MilkTIA00:17:23 - The design00:26:13 - The agent and how it interacts with the multisig00:31:59 - Fudding the multisig00:34:22 - Purpose of the contract00:38:23 - How the validators are chosen00:47:56 - Milky Way's position in the liquid staking space00:51:54 - Endgame for Milky Way in the Celestia ecosystem00:55:38 - The roadmapLINKSMilky WayAuthZ Delegated MultisigGUESTSJayB on LinkedInFabo on TwitterSOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

02-05
58:46

BUILD WHATEVER WHEREVER with Omer Mishael of Lava Network

Lava is a modular data network for scaling access to any blockchain. The network can flexibly support any RPC and API. Lava works with rollups and blockchains to consolidate and improve their node infrastructure. Providers are rewarded for their quality of service, so your users can fetch data and send transactions with speed, data integrity and uptime. Lava helps developers build web3-native apps on any chain.TOPICS00:00:00 Introduction00:05:48 Lava's USP00:10:22 Uber for blockchain data00:13:39 RPC and Relayers00:23:26 Lava's paradigm and how it works00:31:47 How does the matching happen?00:39:48 Clustering mechanism00:42:29 Participants in Lava functionality00:51:55 Modular Stack - Lava's contribution00:56:10 Light Clients 01:01:04 Road to mainnet LINKSLava on TwitterGUESTSOmer Mishael on Linkedin------------------------------------SOCIAL MEDIASebastien CoutureThe Interop

01-29
01:05:02

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