The Jabot

We are an offshoot of the Above the Law legal blog. But we are focused on the challenges women, people of color, LGBTQIA, and other diverse populations face in the legal industry. Let's be real -- it can suck out there. So we want to create a space where our community can come together share stories, find support and devise strategies. Our name comes from none other than the Notorious Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the jabot (decorative collar) she wears when delivering dissents from the bench. It's a reminder that --even when we aren't winning, we're still a powerful force to be reckoned with.

You Can Walk Away From Biglaw And Have The Career Of Your Dreams with Marc Brown - Episode 211

In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Marc Brown, a dynamic attorney and Big Dave’s Cheesesteaks franchise owner. Marc opens up about his non-linear career path from Biglaw to founding his own successful firm, sharing insights on the fulfilling shift to plaintiff’s work and the challenges of running a business. Aspiring lawyers and entrepreneurs alike will find inspiration in Marc’s journey of pursuing passion over convention and learning to balance career and life. Tune in for a mix of legal wisdom and the secret to a perfect cheesesteak!.   Episode Highlights Childhood dream of becoming a lawyer Reality vs. TV portrayal of law work Unplanned career path: Starting a law firm Shift from Biglaw to plaintiff’s work Dealing with emotionally challenging cases Transition to owning a law firm Lessons from running a personal injury firm Challenges of starting a new practice Importance of experience before starting a firm Franchise opportunity with Big Dave’s Balancing multiple business ventures Career highlight: Marc Brown Legal Minute Learning from career lows and losses   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcusjbrown/  https://www.marcbrownlawfirm.com/  https://www.bigdavesway.com/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

09-26
21:25

Can AI Really Predict If You're Going To Win Your Case? with Sarah Johansson - Episode 210

In this episode of The Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Sarah Johansson, the Legal Product Lead at Theo Ai, about the intersection of legal tech and AI. Sarah shares her journey from law to tech and explains how Theo Ai predicts lawsuit outcomes using data and intelligent agents. This episode dives into AI’s role in litigation, addressing skepticism, biases, and the human element of lawyering. Essential listening for anyone curious about the future of law and technology’s growing impact!   Episode Highlights Passion for problem solving in law. Transition from litigation to tech. Predicting lawsuit outcomes with AI. Balancing AI’s value and risks in law. Addressing bias in legal AI models. Importance of quality inputs in AI. Using AI in business decision-making. Potential of AI in appellate processes. AI supporting attorneys in meaningful changes.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://theoai.ai/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-johansson/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

09-19
22:03

Debrief: What It's REALLY Like To Open Your Own Firm with Margot Hoppin

Tune in to the latest Jabot episode as host Kathryn Rubino chats with Margot Hoppin, co-founder of Hoppin Grinsell. Discover the challenges and victories of starting a law firm post- COVID, the impact of AI in law, and the real deal on work-life balance.   Highlights Transition from Biglaw to founding a boutique firm. Trend of starting new firms post-COVID. Time-tracking challenges of running a law firm. Growth milestone: hiring and team development. Balancing work demands with personal time-off goals. Importance of cash flow management in a small firm. Key learnings: experience in running a law firm. Impact of AI on traditional law firm structures. Maintaining firm culture during growth. Benefits of transparency in a smaller law firm. Valuing open communication and addressing knowledge gaps.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.hoppingrinsell.com/team/margot-hoppin    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

09-12
24:13

Lawyer Turned Novelist Pens The Perfect Summer Read with Audrey Ingram - Episode 208

Listen to The Jabot podcast as Kathryn Rubino interviews attorney and author Audrey Ingram, who shares her compelling transition from a law career to writing. Explore Audrey’s journey, motherhood’s role in her life choices, and get a glimpse of her new novel, “The Summer We Ran,” about first loves turned political rivals. A must-listen for aspiring writers and anyone seeking inspiration to chase their dreams!   Highlights Transition from Big Law to Novel Writing Fulfillment in Motherhood Navigating Guilt and Finding Balance Inspiration for Debut Novel Elements of an Ideal Summer Beach Read Creativity and Storytelling Sources Crafting Imperfect Characters Integrating Legal Skills in Writing Balancing Creative and Business Aspects in Writing   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.instagram.com/audreyingramwrites/?hl=en  https://www.instagram.com/zibbypublishing/?hl=en  https://audreyingramwrites.com/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

07-25
26:09

Law Professor On Why It's More Important Than Ever To Confront Racism with Susan Sturm - Episode 207

Join host Kathryn Rubino on the Jabot Podcast as she sits down with Columbia Law School’s Susan Sturm to discuss her compelling new book, “What Might Be.” Susan shares her passion for social justice and explores the power of reimagining systems for a more equitable future. This episode is a must-listen for those eager to understand the paradoxes in social justice work and how to navigate them for impactful change.   Highlights Seeds of the book from childhood experiences. Contradiction seen in the law from day one. Building environments for full participation. Academia as a path for social justice. The power of ideas in driving change. What law is according to Robert Cover. Imagining systems for social justice. Creating micro spaces of justice now. Three paradoxes in addressing racism. Navigating racial salience paradox. Building multiracial collaborations. The challenge and necessity of hope. Avoiding internal immigration.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://whatmightbe.me/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

07-18
25:15

Building A Firm That's Better Than Biglaw with Laurice Rutledge Lambert and Jennifer Whitton - Episode 206

Join host Kathryn Rubino with guests Laurice Rutledge Lambert and Jennifer Whitton. Discover their unique journey from Big Law to founding a boutique health law firm. Explore their mission-driven approach and the challenges they face in healthcare regulation. Perfect for aspiring entrepreneurs and legal enthusiasts   Highlights Jennifer’s journey: from international relations to law. Laurice’s shift from medicine ambitions to health law. Misconceptions about lawyers and real pathway insights. Importance of persistence in career focus. Jennifer’s mentor-driven transition to actual healthcare law. Challenges and implications of starting their own firm. Big law vs. entrepreneurship: Laurice’s turning point. Values-driven alignment in forming their firm. Organic growth and values attract talent. Overcoming misconceptions about small firms lacking sophistication. Team strength and client faith as major successes. Current challenges and future of health care law.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources Jennifer's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferpwhitton/  Laurice's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauricelambert/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

07-11
25:20

A Look At How The Law Fails Patients with Anna Kirkland - Episode 205

Tune into The Jabot Podcast for a must-listen episode with Anna Kirkland, a professor at the University of Michigan. Discover how her new book reveals the complexities and failures of discrimination law in healthcare. Unpack how civil rights shape healthcare access, and learn about the impact of algorithmic bias. Essential for those keen on healthcare policies and rights protections. Don’t miss it!   Highlights Anna’s academic journey: from law school to academia The intersection of civil rights and healthcare in Kirkland’s book Historical context: Transgender rights and public opinion Complexities of implementing nondiscrimination in healthcare Supreme Court involvement in gender-affirming care for youth Medicare as a tool of civil rights enforcement in history The role of rank-and-file employees in healthcare discrimination Patient experience: legal vs. customer service approach Challenges of addressing algorithmic discrimination in healthcare Key issues in healthcare discrimination today   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.ucpress.edu/books/health-care-civil-rights/paper    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

07-03
28:06

Work/Life Balance Doesn't Have To Be A Myth For Lawyers with Laura Cowan - Episode 204

On the latest episode of the Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino welcomes attorney Laura Cowan, author of “Lifestyle Lawyer Revolution.” Discover why Laura transitioned from CPA to law, her journey of starting an estate planning firm, and the insights from her lifestyle-focused law practice. Laura shares invaluable tips on balancing career success with personal well-being. Whether you’re a seasoned lawyer or just starting, Laura’s practical advice and unique perspective offer a refreshing take on modern legal practice. Don’t miss this insightful conversation!   Highlights Combining law with finance interests Entrepreneurial spirit in law practice Surviving the challenge of starting a law firm Importance of practical law education Debunking the workaholic lawyer myth Avoiding lawyer burnout Utilizing technology in law practice Value of coaching for legal success Fear and success in public speaking   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F3FNZMQN https://www.2hourlifestylelawyer.com/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

06-27
23:04

3 Powerhouse Women At The Heart Of Evolving Florida Condo Law with Marnie Dale Ragan, Ariella Gutman, and Kara Olesky - Episode 203

In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Marnie Dale Ragan, Ariella Gutman, and Kara Olesky. They share insights on their unique journeys in the legal field, focusing on the intricacies of condominium law, litigation, and business. Explore how they balance professional growth with personal life, tackle high-stakes disputes, and the dynamics of partnership. Perfect for aspiring lawyers or anyone intrigued by the law’s diverse career paths.   Highlights Navigating high stakes business disputes. Journey to unconventional practice areas. The personal and corporate intersection in condo law. Condo governance: challenges and responsibilities. Evolving legal issues in condo management. The path to partnership: experiences and expectations. Balancing career ambitions with personal life. Collective support among partners. Growth beyond partnership. Celebrating career milestones and victories.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.linkedin.com/in/kara-olesky-48205034/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariellagutman/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/marnie-dale-ragan-44185813/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

06-27
25:41

Frustrated With Your Legal Career? You Can Do Something About That with Cecilia Poullain - Episode 202

In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Cecilia Poullain, an international executive coach and former lawyer. Cecilia shares insightful career transitions from law to coaching, focusing on empowering women to become partners in law firms. The episode uncovers the hidden challenges of partnership, the importance of confidence, and striking a work-life balance. Cecilia’s personal stories reveal the necessity of understanding one’s true career desires. A must-listen for aspiring partners and those questioning their legal career path.   Highlights Transitioning from law to executive coaching. Valuable skills from a legal background in the financial sector. Discovering a path through Gestalt therapy. Challenges in the partnership journey for women. The hidden skills needed for partnership. Confidence issues and perfectionism in law. The loneliness and mental health in law firms. Recognizing and utilizing emotional intelligence in law. Balancing personal life with demanding legal careers. Flexibility in work arrangements as a solution. Navigating personal goals within rigid law firm structures. Coaching focus: achieving partnership to improve firm culture.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.ceciliapoullain.com/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

06-20
25:40

Biglaw Partner Shares What It's Really Like To Work In Intellectual Property Law with Olga Berson - Episode 201

Kathryn Rubino chats with Olga Berson partner at Thompson Coburn. Olga shares her journey from a scientist to a top patent attorney, tackling AI’s impact on patentability and the evolving biosimilar litigation. Her unique insights and balance between law and ballroom dancing make it an inspiring episode!   Highlights Path from science to patent law. Patent lawyers as the geeks of the law field. Collaborating across legal disciplines. Day-to-day life of a patent partner. Unique career spanning patent prosecution, litigation, and more. Key issues: Patent eligibility and AI. Patent law and its challenges with biotech and AI. Balancing AI’s role in innovation and patentability. AI hallucinations and legal implications. Lateral move to Thompson Coburn and its appeal. Combining a demanding career with ballroom dancing. Advice for aspiring patent lawyers: Build client trust.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.linkedin.com/in/olga-berson-phd-patent-attorney/ https://www.thompsoncoburn.com/people/olga-berson-ph-d/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

05-23
21:57

Getting Real About Being A Divorce Lawyer with Padideh Jafari - Episode 200

Kathryn Rubino chats with Padideh Jafari founder and CEO of Jafari Law and Mediation Office. Discover Padideh’s inspiring journey from a five-year-old aspiring lawyer to a successful family law practitioner and advocate. With fascinating insights into handling high-conflict divorce cases, Jafari offers valuable advice for budding lawyers on balancing a demanding career with personal well-being. Tune in for a dose of inspiration and practical tips.   Highlights Inspiration to pursue law from age five. Overcoming skepticism and pursuing legal education. Challenges and attrition in law school leading to camaraderie. Early passion and varied legal experiences. Balancing personal interest with market demand. The advantage of pre-law school attorney roles. Choosing family law despite initial reluctance. Importance of work experience during law school. Specializing in high-conflict cases and mediation. Integrating technology like AI into law practice. Significance of community involvement in legal practice.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.instagram.com/jafarilegal/?hl=es-la https://www.youtube.com/@jafarilegal  https://www.tiktok.com/@jafarilegal  https://x.com/jafarilawfirm    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

05-16
25:04

Climbing Through The Law Firm Ranks To Become Managing Partner with Cayce Lynch - Episode 199

Kathryn Rubino chats with Cayce Lynch, the new national managing partner at Tyson & Mendes. Discover Cayce’s inspiring journey from paralegal to managing partner, the unique culture at her firm, and how they’re innovating in defense law. An uplifting listen for aspiring legal professionals!   Highlights Deciding to go to law school. Mentors and law school experience. Discovering a passion for civil procedure. Moving to California and taking the bar. Discovering the right firm by chance. Why Tyson & Mendes is the perfect fit. Growth and transition to managing partner. Going into the business side of law. Breaking the glass ceiling in the legal industry. Maintaining firm culture during expansion.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus   Links and Resources https://www.tysonmendes.com/attorneys/cayce-e-lynch/    Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts  

05-09
26:34

What It Really Takes To Be On The Path To Biglaw Partnership with Jesse-Justin Cuevas - Episode 198

Kathryn Rubino chats with Jesse-Justin Cuevas, partner at Susman Godfrey, about her inspiring journey from high school debater to a successful litigation partner. Discover her insights on balancing a high-stakes legal career with personal life and why mentorship is crucial. A must-listen for aspiring lawyers and anyone curious about the legal profession! Highlights Decision to pursue law school Business disputes as human disputes Typical day for a litigation partner Importance of mentorship Path to partnership at Susman Godfrey Early career realization through intense casework Benefits of clerkship experiences Balancing personal life with a legal career Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesse-justin-cuevas-559443174/ https://www.susmangodfrey.com/attorneys/jesse-justin-cuevas/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

05-02
24:58

The Sidley Associate Arguing At The Supreme Court with Peter Bruland - Episode 197

Kathryn Rubino chats with Peter Bruland, a Senior Managing Associate at Sidley, who is set to argue before the Supreme Court! Discover his inspiring journey from law school to tackling crucial, high-stakes legal issues. Don’t miss this captivating episode filled with insights into Supreme Court advocacy and the balance between pro bono work and career development. It’s a must-listen for aspiring lawyers and anyone intrigued by the art of legal persuasion. Highlights Discovering law through criminal procedure class. Thrill of solving puzzles in appellate work. First Sidley associate to argue before the Supreme Court. Stakes in criminal cases: freedom on the line. Preparing for the Supreme Court oral argument. Balancing pro bono work with billable hours. Strategic impact: procedural vs. emotional appeals. Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://www.sidley.com/en/people/b/bruland-peter-a   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

04-25
21:23

The Reality Of The Death Penalty Is Even Worse Than You Think with Corinna Lain - Episode 196

Kathryn Rubino chats with Corinna Lain who reveals the chilling realities of lethal injection as detailed in her new book, “Secrets of the Killing State.” This episode exposes the grim processes hidden from the public eye, challenging perceptions on the death penalty. A must-listen for insights into a controversial legal practice! Highlights Legal Academia: Balance of Teaching and Publishing University of Richmond: Teaching Importance Journey to Death Penalty Expertise Initial Skepticism About Supreme Court The Fragility of Lethal Injection Doctrine vs. Reality: Protecting Unpopular Minorities Changing Views on Death Penalty Execution Process: Front-Row Seat Case Example: Brian Dorsey Story Victim Closure: A Misleading Promise Surprising Findings on Lethal Injection Non-Medical Executions: A Shocking Truth Legal Violations in Drug Procurement Glossop Case: Legal and Moral Implications Supreme Court’s Unsettling Divisions Future of Capital Punishment: A Dying System Decline in Death Penalty Support Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://nyupress.org/9781479832965/secrets-of-the-killing-state/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

04-18
26:36

Charting The Path To Mediator with Joann Rezzo - Episode 195

Kathryn Rubino chats with Joann Rezzo who shares her unconventional journey from aspiring CIA agent to law school, through big law, and eventually to mediation. Joan highlights the power of empathy, her knack for negotiation, and how varied experiences helped shape her career, enriching both her mediation skills and her personal growth. Hear Joann’s vibrant anecdotes, including a clever courtroom victory involving an unexpected witness. A must-listen for insights on navigating a diverse legal career path and finding fulfillment.   Highlights Choosing law school over CIA. Navigating a nepotistic law school environment. Career path: From Big Law to small firm. Transition to plaintiffs and defense work. Benefits of trial experience in Big Law. Conflicts check process at a small firm. Importance of understanding both plaintiffs and defense perspectives. Motivation to transition to mediation. Financial readiness enabling career shifts. Knowing when to jump into new opportunities. Traits for a successful mediator: empathy and listening. Memorable litigation story: Using a surprise rebuttal witness. Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus    Links and Resources https://signatureresolution.com/neutral-CPT/joann-rezzo/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/joann-rezzo-62396449/     Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

04-11
25:32

The Battle For The Heart Of The First Amendment Is Heating Up with David Enrich - Episode 194

Kathryn Rubino chats with David Enrich, business investigations editor at The New York Times and author of “Murder The Truth.” They explore the powerful influence of big law firms and the current landscape of defamation law that threatens journalistic freedom. With insights on media regulations and Sullivan’s landmark case, this episode sheds light on the implications for free speech and democracy, a must-listen for anyone intrigued by media law and its societal impact. Highlights AI-powered legal research tool. Encountering lawyers in financial scandals. Power and secrecy of big law firms. Importance of New York Times v. Sullivan. Trump’s attacks on media and defamation law. Supreme Court opinions on Sullivan. Potential consequences of overturning Sullivan. Impact on journalism without Sullivan protections. Threats to local journalism and mental health. Sophisticated pressure tactics against journalists. Predictions on Sullivan’s future protections. Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://www.harpercollins.com/products/murder-the-truth-david-enrich?variant=42734343421986 https://www.nytimes.com/by/david-enrich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Enrich https://x.com/davidenrich?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-enrich-5b2a71/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

04-04
26:51

Finding Your Perfect Spot In The Legal Profession with Lisa Landy - Episode 193

Kathryn Rubino chats with Lisa Landy, a Principal at Therrel Baisden. Discover Lisa’s journey into law, her passion for probate litigation, and insights on mentoring and firm growth. Perfect for aspiring lawyers! Highlights Transition to probate litigation. Key personality traits for probate practice. Mentorship’s role in law firms. Legacy of a century-old law firm. Impact of firm growth from 4 to 14 attorneys. Passion for courtroom experiences. The impact of Zoom on legal proceedings. Pros and cons of virtual and in-person court. Memorable mediation experience. Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://www.therrelbaisden.com/lisa-d-landy/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-landy-460a72a7/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

03-28
19:14

Judicial Philosophies Are Way Overrated with Mark Tushnet - Episode 192

Kathryn Rubino chats with Harvard Law’s Prof. Mark Tushnet, exploring his new book, “Who Am I to Judge?” Tushnet critiques the Supreme Court’s originalism and questions the narrow experience of justices. A must-listen to rethink judicial norms and hear Tushnet’s engaging perspectives on ideal court nominations and even the question of favorite books! Highlights The genesis of a legal career: from political science to law school. Critique of judicial review’s evolution since the 1970s. Democrats rely on courts against the Trump administration. Background of the book “Who Am I to Judge?” Insight on Supreme Court composition change over generations. Judges’ uniformity influencing mediocre decisions. Originalism in academic vs judicial contexts. Evaluating Supreme Court nominees on broader life experiences. Predictions for Trump’s potential future nominees.   Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300277029/who-am-i-to-judge/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

03-21
27:00

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