The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer sits down with economist and Franklin descendant Dr. Mark Skousen to explore the wit, wisdom, and modern relevance of Benjamin Franklin, the man who bridged science, politics, and philosophy like no other. Shermer and Skousen discuss Franklin’s contributions to science, moral philosophy, economics, and religious thought, while asking: What would Franklin make of today’s America—its economy, politics, and culture? Mark Skousen holds the Doti-Spogli Chair of Free Enterprise at Chapman University. Known as “America’s Economist,” he is the editor of Forecasts & Strategies, an award winning investment newsletter, and producer of FreedomFest, “the world’s largest gathering of free minds.” He is the author of over 25 books, incl. his latest, The Greatest American: Benjamin Franklin, The World’s Most Versatile Genius.

The COVID-19 pandemic was a devastating global event, killing more than seven million people, straining the fabric of societies, and shaking the foundations of the world economy. And yet, as horrifying as the experience was, COVID-19 was not “The Big One” — the dreaded pandemic that haunts the nightmares of epidemiologists and public health officials everywhere. That far deadlier outbreak is still ahead of us, and it will reshape life across the planet unless we’re ready for it. In this episode, Dr. Michael Osterholm, one of the world’s leading infectious disease experts, explains what we got wrong, what we got right, and what it all reveals about our preparedness for the next great pandemic. Michael Osterholm is Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health at the University of Minnesota, where he founded and directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP). An internationally renowned epidemiologist with fifty years of experience, he's led major outbreak investigations worldwide and authored over 350 papers. He served as a U.S. State Department science envoy from 2017-2019. His new book is The Big One: How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics.

Common knowledge is necessary for coordination, for making arbitrary but complementary choices like driving on the right, using paper currency, and coalescing behind a political leader or movement. It’s also necessary for social coordination. Humans have a sixth sense for common knowledge, and we create it with signals like laughter, tears, blushing, eye contact, and blunt speech. But people also go to great lengths to avoid common knowledge—to ensure that even if everyone knows something, they can’t know that everyone else knows they know it. And so we get rituals like benign hypocrisy, veiled bribes and threats, sexual innuendo, and pretending not to see the elephant in the room. Pinker shows how the hidden logic of common knowledge can make sense of many of life’s enigmas: financial bubbles and crashes, revolutions that come out of nowhere, the posturing and pretense of diplomacy, the eruption of social media shaming mobs and academic cancel culture, the awkwardness of a first date. Steven Pinker is the Johnstone Professor of Psychology at Harvard University. He is an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, and one of Time’s “100 Most Influential People in the World Today.” He has won many prizes for his teaching, his research on language, cognition, and social relations, and his twelve books. His new book is When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows: Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money, Power, and Everyday Life.

Jim Lampley’s story is a 50-year travelog of an unlikely career that catalogs the evolution of sports television—from his emergence as the first sideline reporter, through hosting and covering 14 Olympics, to working with all major sports networks. In this episode, Lampley reflects on his experiences in boxing, the evolution of the sport, and the genius of athletes like Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. The conversation also explores the unpredictability of life and how chance events shape our paths, the importance of mentorship, and the impact of performance-enhancing drugs. Lampley offers insights into the current state of journalism, emphasizing the importance of truth and objectivity amidst the challenges posed by social media and economic incentives. He also reflects on the complex legacy of O.J. Simpson and shares anecdotes about some of his other friends, including the beloved actor (and avid golfer) Jack Nicholson. Jim Lampley is a Hall of Fame sportscaster with 50 years of on-site experience at numerous live sports events, including the Super Bowl, Wimbledon, and 14 Olympics. For 30 years, he was the face and voice of HBO World Championship Boxing, calling some of the sport’s most iconic fights—including bouts featuring Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, and Floyd Mayweather. A three-time Emmy winner and International Boxing Hall of Fame inductee, his new book is It Happened!

In this solo commentary, Michael Shermer reflects on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and places it in the larger context of political violence, the psychology of radicalization, the dangers of false beliefs, and the role of free speech in intellectual discourse.

Science writer Nicholas Wade explains how human nature continues to shape—and sometimes destabilize—modern civilization, and argues that ignoring the effects of human nature on politics is one of society’s greatest mistakes. Drawing on anthropology, evolutionary biology, and history, Wade shows how deep-rooted traits not only shape the outcomes of certain political beliefs and systems, but also affect how people form families, religion, and social order. Nicholas Wade has worked at Nature and Science, and, for many years, at The New York Times, where he was an editorial writer and science editor. He is the author of four books about recent human evolution. His latest is The Origin of Politics: How Evolution and Ideology Shape the Fate of Nations.

Parenting today often feels like an uphill battle, with technology invading every corner of our kids’ lives. From the rise of social media addiction to the growing mental health crisis among children and teens, parents are grappling with how they can create a healthy, balanced relationship with technology for their kids. Drawing on her decades as a psychologist studying the impact of technology and mental health, Jean Twenge offers evidence-based advice for raising independent and well-rounded children. Jean Twenge, a professor of psychology at San Diego State University and the author of more than 190 scientific publications and several books based on her research, including Generation Me, iGen, and Generations, which we discussed on this show. Her research has been covered in Time, The Atlantic, Newsweek, and The Washington Post. She has also been featured on Today, Good Morning America, Fox and Friends, CBS This Morning, Real Time with Bill Maher, and NPR. Her new book is Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World.

In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael Shermer interviews Alan Stern, a prominent planetary scientist and astronaut. Stern discusses his recent suborbital flight, the differences between government and private space initiatives, and the scientific implications of UFO sightings. He also shares insights about the evolution and future of space exploration, including details about the rarely talked about upcoming termination of dozens of already paid-for NASA missions. Alan Stern is a planetary scientist, astronaut, and author. NASA has selected him to be the first researcher NASA funded to fly to space as a crewmember aboard a commercial suborbital space mission. Since 2001 he has led NASA’s $900M New Horizons mission that explored the Pluto system and is now exploring the Kuiper Belt—the farthest exploration of worlds in history. In 2007 and 2008, Dr. Stern served as NASA’s chief of all space and Earth science programs, directing its $5B/year Science Mission Directorate (SMD), with 93 separate flight missions and a program of over 3,000 research grants. In 2022, he took part in a deep-sea expedition to explore the RMS Titanic in a submersible.

In a radical new story about the birth of our species, evolutionary biologist Madeleine Beekman argues that it was not hunting, fighting, or tool-making that forced early humans to speak, but the inescapable need to care for our children. Beekman reveals the “happy accidents” hidden in our molecular biology—DNA, chromosomes, and proteins—that led to one of the most fateful events in the history of life on Earth: our giving birth to babies earlier in their development than our hominid cousins the Neanderthals and Denisovans. Faced with highly dependent infants requiring years of nurturing and protection, early human communities needed to cooperate and coordinate, and it was this unprecedented need for communication that triggered the creation of human language—and changed everything. Madeleine Beekman is professor emerita of evolutionary biology and behavioral ecology at the University of Sydney, Australia. Her new book is The Origin of Language.

Economist Dean Spears explains the forces driving global population change, from past fears of overpopulation to today’s concerns about declining birth rates. He contrasts the perspectives of biologists and economists on population growth and highlights the role of human ideas and innovation in sustaining progress. Spears also discusses misconceptions about zero-sum economics, the links between population, health, and economic well-being, and the rise of anti-natalism. The conversation covers population size and environmental concerns, government policies on family planning, and why cultural attitudes toward reproduction may be as important as policy in addressing the challenges of a shrinking population. Dean Spears is an economist, demographer, and associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Spears is a founding executive director of r.i.c.e, (a research institute for compassionate economics), a nonprofit that works to promote children’s health, growth, and survival in rural India. Together with Michael Geruso, he is the author of the new book After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People.

Because brainwashing affects both the world and our observation of the world, we often don’t recognize it while it’s happening―unless we know where to look. As Rebecca Lemov writes in her new book The Instability of Truth, “Brainwashing erases itself.” What we call brainwashing is more common than we think; it is not so much what happens to other people as what can happen to anyone. In her work, Lemov exposes the myriad ways our minds can be controlled against our will, from the brainwashing techniques used against American POWs in North Korea to the “soft” brainwashing of social media doomscrolling and behavior-shaping. Rebecca Lemov is a historian of science at Harvard University and has been a visiting scholar at the Max Planck Institute. Her research explores data, technology, and the history of human and behavioral sciences. Her new book is The Instability of Truth: Brainwashing, Mind Control, and Hyper-Persuasion.

In an era of globalized education, where ideals of freedom and inquiry should thrive, an alarming trend has emerged: foreign authoritarian regimes influencing American academia. In her new book Authoritarians in the Academy, Sarah McLaughlin reveals how higher education institutions—long considered bastions of free thought—are compromising their values for financial gain and international partnerships. Her investigation uncovers the subtle yet sweeping influence of authoritarian governments, exposing university leaders who prioritize expansion and profit over the principles of free expression. She also describes incidents in which professors and administrators weighed the costs of offending repressive regimes that provide their funding. McLaughlin’s work offers a sobering look at how these compromises in academia mirror broader patterns across industries such as technology, sports, and entertainment. Sarah McLaughlin is a senior scholar of global expression at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Her writing about free speech issues, including protest and blasphemy laws, has been featured in publications including Foreign Policy and The Huffington Post. Her new book is Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech.

In this conversation, Michael Shermer and Dr. Eric Topol discuss the realties of aging, with particular focus on the role of AI in enhancing patient care and disease prevention, the importance of lifestyle factors, and the limitations of genetic testing in predicting health outcomes. Topol also explains the dangers of ultra-processed foods, their link to inflammation, and the role of GLP-1 drugs in promoting healthier eating habits. The conversation also covers diet, particularly the differences between chicken and red meat, and the significance of sleep for overall health. Plus, consumption of microplastics, cholesterol management and statins, the critical role of social connections in maintaining mental and physical health, and the future of personalized medicine in cancer prevention. Eric Topol is a cardiologist and one of the top ten most cited researchers in medicine, known for his groundbreaking studies on AI in medicine, genomics, and digitized clinical trials. Topol is also the executive vice president and a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research, the largest nonprofit biomedical institute in the United States. He was named one of the Top 100 most influential people in health in 2024 by Time. His new book is Super Agers.

Isabelle Boemeke explains how nuclear energy is our best option for ensuring the future of the planet—it can power cities, desalinate water, create carbon-free fertilizer, and heat homes, all with the smallest environmental footprint of any energy source. She also discusses common objections to nuclear energy, including safety concerns and waste management, the potential of microreactors, and the importance of nuclear energy in space exploration. Isabelle Boemeke is a nuclear electricity educator. Her new book is Rad Future: The Untold Story of Nuclear Electricity and How it Will Save the World.

In his new book Coming Clean, Eric Heinze rejects the idea that we should be less woke. In fact, we need more wokeness, but of a new kind. Yes, we must teach about classism, racism, colonialism, patriarchy, and other gross injustices, but we must also educate the public about the left’s own support for regimes that damaged and destroyed millions of lives for over a century—Stalin in the Soviet Union, Mao Zedong in China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, or the Kim dynasty in North Korea. Criticisms of Western wrongdoing are certainly important, yet Heinze explains that most on the political left have rarely engaged in the kinds of open and public self-scrutiny that they demand from others. Citing examples as different as the Ukraine war, LGBTQ+ people in Cuba, the concept of “hatred,” and the problem of leftwing antisemitism, Heinze explains why and how the left must change its memory politics if it is to claim any ethical high ground. Eric Heinze is Professor of Law and Humanities at Queen Mary University of London. He is the author of The Most Human Right: Why Free Speech is Everything (MIT Press), among other books, and has published over 100 articles and has been featured in radio and television and other media around the world. His new book is Coming Clean: The Rise of Critical Theory and the Future of the Left.

Traditional religion in the United States has suffered huge losses in recent decades. The number of Americans identifying as “not religious” has increased remarkably. Religious affiliation, service attendance, and belief in God have declined. More and more people claim to be “spiritual but not religious.” Religious organizations have been reeling from revelations of sexual and financial scandals and cover-ups. Public trust in “organized religion” has declined significantly. Crucially, these religious losses are concentrated among younger generations. This means that, barring unlikely religious revivals among youth, the losses will continue and accelerate in time, as less-religious younger Americans replace older more-religious ones and increasingly fewer American children are raised by religious parents. All this is clear. But what is less clear is exactly why this is happening. We know a lot more about the fact that traditional American religion has declined than we do about why this is so. Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology and Founding Director of the Center for the Study of Religion and Society at the University of Notre Dame. Smith is well known for his research focused on religion, adolescents and emerging adults, and social theory. He has written many books, including Divided by Faith, Soul Searching, and Moral, Believing Animals. His new book is Why Religion Went Obsolete: The Demise of Traditional Faith in America.

In this episode, Michael Shermer speaks with historian Sophia Rosenfeld about how modern notions of personal choice—from Amazon shopping to Tinder swipes—emerged from centuries of cultural, religious, political, and economic transformation. Was there ever a time when choice wasn’t synonymous with freedom? Why were early ideas of “common sense” and “free will” so limited? And what happens when choice itself becomes overwhelming? From Enlightenment ideals to the sexual revolution and the abortion debate, Rosenfeld traces how our expanding range of options—and the meaning we attach to them—has shaped everything from our romantic lives to our political systems. A revealing look at the hidden history of freedom in a world that sometimes offers too much. Sophia Rosenfeld is Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania. Her new book is The Age of Choice: A History of Freedom in Modern Life.

What can a lifetime of scientific discovery teach us about the universe—and ourselves? In this wide-ranging conversation, Michael Shermer sits down with Lord Martin Rees, renowned cosmologist, astrophysicist, and former Astronomer Royal, to reflect on the forces that shape scientific success, from personal luck to cultural context. Rees shares insights on the mysteries of cosmology, the search for extraterrestrial life, and the paradoxes that still puzzle humanity. Rees also shares intimate reflections on his friend and Cambridge colleague Stephen Hawking, thoughts on Fermi’s Paradox, and why some truths may forever lie beyond human comprehension. The discussion also turns toward urgent global issues: the promise and peril of AI, ethical dilemmas in a rapidly advancing world, and how religion and terrorism could shape our future.

When you are faced with a decision, do you consider the best outcome, or do you consider your deepest values about which actions are appropriate? Steven Sloman contrasts these two primary strategies for making decisions: consequentialism or prioritizing one’s sacred values. He argues that, while both modes of decision making are necessary tools for a good decision maker, people err by deploying sacred values more often than they should, especially when it comes to sociopolitical issues. As a result, we oversimplify, grow disgusted and angry, and act in ways that contribute to social polarization. Drawing on historical and current examples of the two decision-making strategies in action, Sloman provides a thorough overview of the psychology of decision making, including work on judgment, conscious and unconscious decision-making processes, the roles of emotion, and even an analysis of habit and addiction. Steven Sloman has taught at Brown University since 1992. He is the author of Causal Models and a coauthor of The Knowledge Illusion (with Phil Fernbach). His new book is The Cost of Conviction: How Our Deepest Values Lead Us Astray.

Michael Shermer in conversation with Debra Soh at FreedomFest 2025 in Palm Springs, CA. Video courtesy of FreedomFest. Additional FreedomFest videos can be viewed on CiVL.