The National Security Law Podcast

The National Security Law Podcast (aka the NSL Podcast) is a weekly review of the latest legal controversies associated with the U.S. government’s national security activities and institutions, featuring Professors Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck of the University of Texas at Austin. They bring different perspectives to these issues, but always in a friendly spirit. The program is fast-paced but detail-rich, and is meant for lawyers and non-lawyers alike. If you’ve been looking for a thoughtful yet enjoyable way to keep up with and better understand these issues, the National Security Law Podcast is the show for you. To join the conversation, follow nslpodcast on Twitter (<a href="https://twitter.com/nslpodcast" target="_blank">@nslpodcast</a>).

Episode 247: Deal, No Deal

Hello friends, and welcome back to the NSL Podcast with Professor Vladeck and Dean Chesney.  Tune in for a detailed discussion of the bizarre plea-deal-wait-nevermind-no-plea-deal situation that unfolded last week in relation to three of the four remaining military commission defendants in the 9/11 prosecution, as well as a breakdown of the Supreme Court's presidential immunity (from prosecution) case. Do these guys spend too much time talking about the Mets, and Star Wars, and House of the Dragon/Game of Thrones? Well, yes, sure, but it beats having the show interrupted by advertisements, no?

08-07
01:10:48

Episode 246: Around the Drain in 80 Days

Betcha thought we were done...but we're back!  Tune in as Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate the latest (ok, some of this stuff is months old) national security law and related developments, including: The renewal of Section 702 (aka our first contribution to the rapidly-upcoming debate over the next renewal) The conviction of the former president in New York Court (and the prospects for SCOTUS to get involved) Speaking of SCOTUS: we're waiting on a *LOT* of big decisions over the next two weeks, including the presidential immunity claim, social media content moderation jawboning, and more We've also got an upcoming oral argument in the Florida federal court trial of the former president in relation to classified documents TikTok & Bytedance v. Garland: we discuss the prospects for the First Amendment claim, as well as the prospects for a Takings argument and, perhaps the sleeper topic among these, the Bill of Attainder argument Of course there's frivolity too.  Lots of it.  Watching the Acolyte? The Mets?  House of the Dragon?  Hitman?  Mr. Bates vs the Post Office?

06-20
01:21:14

Episode 245: 100 Days Later…

Hello, is this thing on?  Check one, check two...testing, testing.  We're good?  Alright alright alright... It's been 100 days between shows.  Thought maybe the world might be calmer if we waited a bit, but no such luck!  We are, however, very glad to be back on the air with a fresh (and rather long!) episode. Tune in for topics including: Israel & Hamas Ukraine & Russia America & the Houthis 702 renewal TikTok & prospects for the divestment bill prevailing vs a First Amendment challenge All sorts of Trump litigation All sorts of Texas border stuff (invasion as a constitutional concept, state-level war powers, preemption, the limits of preemption, etc.) Plus, why do the Mets already suck? It's only been four games.  Yeesh.

04-02
01:27:21

Episode 244: Not Our 30th Episode of 2023

Barring an unlikely spate of more than a dozen episodes happening over the next week, it sure looks like Steve has won his bet with Bobby, for this marks the 16th episode of 2023.  Ouch, that's not even *close* to the 30-show target!  But tune in anyway if you are interested in a thorough overview of what is and is not clear about the Colorado Supreme Court's decision disqualifying Donald Trump from the ballot under color of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment (that is, on grounds that Trump had engaged in insurrection).

12-23
01:11:56

Episode 243: Boiled Froggy Water Under the Bridge

Two months between episodes?  Looks like someone will be buying Steve a dinner at the conclusion of 2023 (barring a pivot to posting new episodes every day). As for what is on tap in episode 243: Israel and Gaza: a review of key international law issues The United States and Iran: a review of key domestic law issues Trumplandia: checking in on, like, 17 separate cases currently underway As for frivolity: there are some (inevitable) ramblings about football, but much more frivolous than that is the ad hoc holiday favorites playlist...

11-28
01:19:00

Episode 242: A Rule of Law (and Punctuation) Free Episode!

Sorry about accidentally taking the whole month off, but we're back with a classic: tune in for the 9/11 case warm-up, and stick around for 45 minutes of wrangling over the PCLOB Report on Section 702!  And, yes, frivolity, always frivolity (wherein we discuss the musical Six, football, and gargantuan mismatches).

09-29
01:18:22

Episode 241: Let’s Barbie!

Tune in for the latest, in which we discuss life as a fall 1L, RICO, removal, Nashiri, Bahlul, Shimari, Barbie, and Silo. And if all those names mean something to you...well, you are among the select few, and this pod is for you!

08-22
01:16:21

Episode 240: Something Got Released

If you are interested in a detailed and careful explanation of the charges at issue in United States v. Trump (the recent indictment of the former president in relation to his effort to overturn the results of the election), the way that the alleged facts related to those offenses, and the relatives strengths and weaknesses of the most likely defenses...well, this is the show for you.  Though co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney originally planned to discuss an array of topics in addition to reviewing the latest indictment of the former president, they ended up spending the entire hour on this one.

08-08
01:04:20

Episode 239: We Have Many Tapestries!

Well, it's been about a month, so it's good we are finally back with a fresh episode!  Tune in as hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney kick the tires on: The New York Times story (per Charlie Savage) on the Biden Administration's October '22 revised policy guidance on kill/capture operations outside areas of active hostilities Touching base with the will-it-ever-end (no) Nashiri litigation The National Guard, federal court-martial jurisdiction for members not in federal service, and the Fifth Circuit Missouri v. Biden: a stunning injunction (and 155-page underlying memo) limiting the ability of a slew of federal government leaders to work with social media platforms on content moderation And, of course, no shortage of frivolity!  If you are not down with the frivolity, you definitely want to skip the first six minutes.  Well, maybe a lot more than that... :)

07-11
01:22:18

Episode 238: The World Wonders

Today's episode focuses on the indictment in United States v. Donald Trump and Waltine Nauta, S.D. Fla. (23-80101-CR).  Co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney walk you through the factual allegations, the crimes charged, the areas where tricky evidence questions might arise, the process for selecting the presiding judge, and the prospects for an array of things including: recusal; a Presidential Records Act defense; a I-declassified-this-stuff defense; a pre-verdict Rule 29 motion for judgment of acquittal; and a trial occurring around the time of the election.  Buckle up and tune in!

06-12
58:56

Episode 237: Are You Not Detained???

And we're back, with co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney breaking down the latest national security law news along with much else.  This week the spotlight is on the D.C. Circuit's en banc decision in al Hela, which grapples with the applicability of the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause (in both its procedural and substantive aspects) to GTMO detainees.  We've also got an update on the Badilla contractor immunity case (in which Steve plays a role as counsel to the plaintiffs), some Shadow Docket developments, and notes on the prosecutorial aspects of Cold War II.

04-25
01:19:09

Episode 236: Damn the Torpedoes!

Good morning!  Episode 236 covers: The Trump Indictment The Biden Administration's Executive Order on Abusive Commercial Spyware A CENTCOM strike against an IS target in Syria The future of private prosecutors?

04-05
50:57

Episode 235: A Drone Struck

We're back with a Spring Break edition, featuring: ICC cases emerging against Russian defendants for (1) removing children from Ukraine to Russia and (2) attacking civilian infrastructure A UK drone strike in Syria, a US drone strike in Yemen, and a US drone struck (by the Russians) Renewal of Section 702 and the Rep. LaHood story TikTok, CFIUS, and the RESTRICT Act Another GTMO transfer Possible repeal of the 2002 and 1991 Iraq AUMFs And an early start to the annual Mets demoralization process.

03-16
01:09:11

Episode 234: Not *That* Linda Hamilton

Are you ready for a DEEP DIVE?  We've got an extended conversation today explaining the stakes and anticipating the outcomes in two cases argued in front of SCOTUS this week:  Google v. Gonzalez and Twitter v. Taamneh.  The cases present questions about the scope of civil liability under the Anti-Terrorism Act in the aiding-and-abetting context (as applied to the use of social media platforms by terrorist groups) and the proper interpretation of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act and its protection of such platforms.

02-23
01:08:07

Episode 233: This Episode Was (Not) Written by ChatGPT

We are delighted this week to feature two Texas Law students -- Sam Libby and Alex Rigby -- who earned the chance to co-host the show with us thanks to their generosity supporting the Texas Law Fellowships program (a charitable endeavor that supports Texas Law students doing summer public interest work).  Join us as we talk about just how it is that Prime Minister Trudeau can be involved in orders that result in American F-22s taking out a UFO, a largely-unremarked material support prosecution that twenty years ago very well could have resulted in a high-profile dispute over military detention of a US citizen, loads of Super Bowl analysis, and much more!  And, yes, lots of questions posed to ChatGPT!

02-14
01:12:55

Episode 232: Top Gun 3: Deflategate!

After a week with no electricity, Professors Vladeck and Chesney are back with the latest in national security law news.  Tune in for discussions of: the law (or lack thereof) when it comes to balloons, altitude, and aerial espionage sanctions on the Wagner Group and also on various Russians associated with ransomware FBI and DOJ disrupting the Hive ransomware group Majid Khan transferred from GTMO to ... Belize? Ted Olson on the military commissions process Finally, you'll want to watch SNL's "HBO Mario Kart": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiIRlg4Xr5w

02-09
41:18

Episode 231: If You Go to Washington Don’t Crime There

What's this, a one-week turnaround between shows?  Will wonders never cease? In a throwback to the days of this being a weekly show, your co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck are back on a quick turnaround in order to debate and discuss: A new seditious conspiracy conviction arising out of Jan. 6 A New York State "material support" prosecution (State v. el Faisal) Various SCOTUS updates Any classified documents that we might have found when cleaning up the ol' office The shocking arrest of the former FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Counterintelligence Division at FBI's NY Field Office on IEEPA (and other) charges relating to secret work for a Russian oligarch....oof. And, as always, some frivolity.

01-24
55:24

Episode 230, Not Section 230

Wouldn't want you to be misled by the episode number (though we do actually foreshadow some future Section 230 coverage in light of an upcoming pair of SCOTUS cases)!  At any rate: tune in as Professors Chesney and Vladeck discuss what is and isn't similar about the Trump and Biden classified documents scenarios; the relative authority of the President and Congress under the Arms Export Control Act (in light of the potential sale of F16s to Turkey); the 21st anniversary of GTMO; the indictment of a Chinese man who harassed a fellow student at the Berklee School of Music based on the victim's pro-democracy, pro-freedom speech; and of course no small amount of frivolity!

01-17
54:39

Episode 229: We Are Not Not Going to Post Weekly in 2023 Maybe

Happy 2023 y'all!  We are off to a quick start this year.  Tune in as Professors Vladeck and Chesney discuss recent developments, including: The Supreme Court's "Title 42"-related action in Arizona v. Mayorkas Highlights from the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year '23 (including a National Guard reform that did not make it, and a newly-clarified authorization for Cyber Command that did) Central Command's year-end summary of its counter-ISIS operations in Syria and Iraq in 2022 (including remarkable statistics on the scale of detention administered by both Iraq and the SDF) Call for your help: we want suggestions for statutes, cases, or events  (including ones from long ago, not just recent events) that you'd like us to explore in future episodes (we are going to add a recurring deep-dive segment) All that, plus ample frivolity.

01-02
01:15:18

Episode 228: Not *That* George Clinton!

Holiday edition!  Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss the rapid demise of the attempt by Donald Trump's lawyers to use Executive Privilege in relation to the classified documents found at Mar a Lago, the arrival in the US of a former Libyan intelligence officer charged with a key role in the horrific bombing of Pan Am 103 in 1988, the arrival in the US of a Mauritanian man charged with several terrorist attacks in Mali, the arrival in the US of erstwhile crypto exchange entrepreneur Sam Bankman-Fried to face charges stemming from that total dumpster fire.  And, naturally, an indefensible number of detours, digressions, and other forays into frivolity!

12-13
01:05:33

Ashanti Larson

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02-09 Reply

Dom Sgambati

i like the post but why do you think people are tuning in for "frivolous" content? seriously do NOT care about your thoughts on the Mandalorian, there are already much smarter podcasts on that topic. don't care about your favorite football teams either. sheesh.

12-04 Reply

Joseph Kozely

Good topics require analysis but the hosts instead talked over each other rather than listen and try to understand the other's viewpoint.

09-16 Reply

Zachary Crockett

Loved the deep dive format! (said the one non-lawyer among the 10k) More like this please @bobbychesney @steve_vladek

08-08 Reply

Zachary Crockett

Thanks for the Cyber law update! 👏

08-06 Reply

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