The Programmatic Digest

In Episode 209 of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker sits down with Avani Oswal, founder of Catalyst, to explore what retail and ecommerce leaders need to know as AI reshapes discovery, technology decisions, and customer experiences. Avani shares how her career moved from finance and consulting at EY to strategy at Macy's, operational roles across ecommerce brands including IPSY, and eventually building Catalyst, a community that connects retail operators with emerging technology companies. She explains why understanding the numbers, listening closely to operators, and building real relationships are essential when evaluating technology. The conversation examines the shift from SEO to answer engine optimization, or AEO. Avani explains how brands can improve their visibility inside AI-generated answers by combining structured product data with insights from ecommerce, creative, data, and paid media teams. She also breaks down the build-versus-buy decision for SaaS tools, including the factors teams often overlook: speed, resources, customization, ownership, and ongoing maintenance. Hélène and Avani close with a look toward 2027 and the promise of true one-to-one personalization across websites, merchandising, email, text, CRM, and marketing. Avani's final reminder is simple: believe in yourself, trust the experience you already have, and take the bet on yourself. About Us The Programmatic Digest Podcast makes programmatic advertising, ad tech, and the future of digital media easier to understand. Hosted by Hélène Parker, the show brings together operators, traders, founders, and industry leaders for practical conversations about the technology, strategy, and people shaping our industry. Through Hélène Parker Consulting, we help media and ad-tech companies grow revenue while building stronger programmatic teams through sales growth, go-to-market strategy, workshops, consulting, and training. Access the programmatic training library: https://www.heleneparker.com/library Timestamps • [00:00] - Welcome and introduction to Avani Oswal • [01:12] - From EY and Wharton to Macy's, IPSY, and ecommerce operations • [02:50] - Why Avani created Catalyst and began connecting brands with tech companies • [04:07] - Building value through community, trust, and relationships • [05:30] - Using finance and business outcomes to evaluate technology • [06:39] - Cutting through AI hype and finding tools that move the numbers • [08:02] - Why in-person relationships still matter in a digital industry • [09:39] - The biggest changes in ecommerce and SaaS over the past year • [10:44] - From AI-first companies to answer engine optimization • [12:19] - How brand, creative, ecommerce, data, and paid teams can collaborate on AEO • [15:30] - What a PDP is and how product data can become more useful to LLMs • [16:07] - SaaS versus building in-house: the core decision factors • [17:40] - The maintenance cost companies forget after building a tool • [18:45] - What large and small brands are choosing today • [20:01] - The programmatic comparison: white-label support versus hiring in-house • [20:49] - Avani's 2027 prediction for agentic, one-to-one personalization • [23:01] - Avani's advice: believe in yourself and take the bet • [24:54] - How to connect with Avani and closing remarks Meet Our Guest Avani Oswal – Founder of Catalyst Avani Oswal works at the intersection of AI, ecommerce, retail, and emerging technology. Her background includes finance and consulting at EY, an MBA from Wharton, strategy work at Macy's, and ecommerce and operational roles across consumer brands, including IPSY. As the founder of Catalyst, Avani connects retail and ecommerce leaders with one another and with technology companies. She helps operators evaluate emerging solutions, helps founders understand real industry needs, and creates communities where leaders can exchange practical insights. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avanioswal/ Catalyst: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thecatalystclub/ Meet The Team Hélène Parker – Host of the Programmatic Digest Podcast Website: https://heleneparker.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/ Learn Programmatic Programmatic Training Library: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Join the Workshop Waitlist: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/ Follow Us LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

Programmatic advertising gives us more data, automation, and targeting options than ever. But behind every impression, click, and conversion is a real person whose circumstances, attention, and needs can change. In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker speaks with Carole Lawson, founding partner of Marketstorm, about the relationship between data, technology, AI, and human behavior. Carole shares how her experience in technology, government innovation, behavioral economics, and data science led her into programmatic advertising. She also explains why traders should be careful about overcontrolling campaigns based only on what appears logical inside a DSP. One powerful example involves a luxury bottle of wine purchased at 4 a.m. after the buyer saw an ad while playing Solitaire in Oklahoma. A trader might have excluded that time, location, or environment. The technology, however, recognized that it was the right moment for that specific person. This conversation explores how programmatic professionals can combine human judgment with AI, select stronger audience signals, recognize audience fatigue, and measure performance beyond the last click. Key takeaway The goal is not to choose between human judgment and AI. The goal is to understand what each does best. Programmatic professionals provide strategy, context, client knowledge, and critical thinking. AI and machine learning can identify behavioral patterns and opportunities that a person may not see. Strong performance happens when those capabilities work together.   Check out the interview on YouTube!      🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides   Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library     ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and welcome 00:41 Carole Lawson's career journey 01:27 Moving from technology into data and behavioral economics 03:28 How Marketstorm was created 05:45 "The ad may not have changed, but the person did" 07:23 Remembering the human behind programmatic data 08:25 The unexpected 4 a.m. luxury-wine conversion 09:59 Why excluding overnight hours can hurt performance 11:16 Campaign budget and return 11:34 Focused audiences and negative targeting 13:09 Understanding signals inside custom algorithms 13:54 Researching customers and creating custom audiences 15:17 Primary versus secondary conversions 16:13 Recognizing when an audience becomes stale 17:06 Questions to ask an audience-data partner 18:58 Ordinary browsing versus emerging intent 21:28 Does more precise targeting cost more? 22:59 Intent, influence, demand capture, and attribution 25:00 AI assistants as a new form of search 26:02 Making websites and content readable by AI 27:42 Career advice for programmatic professionals 28:18 Programmatic's role in the marketing ecosystem 29:38 Closing thoughts 29:43 Where to follow Carole's work       👤 Meet Our Guests: Carolee Lawson - Founding Partner, Chief Innovation Officer, MarketStorm Carole Lawson is a data scientist and founding partner of Marketstorm. For the past 20 years, her work has focused on behavioral economics and the relationship between people and technology, including how human behavior influences technology and how technology shapes human behavior. Before founding Marketstorm, Carole worked in technology for the State of California, where she led a major redesign of the state's websites. She also chaired the Governor's Innovation Council, collaborating with emerging technology companies and exploring how data and technology could improve the delivery of government services. Carole later brought her experience in data, human behavior, and technology into programmatic advertising. Today, she helps organizations use audience intelligence, custom algorithms, and behavioral signals to reach the right people and improve marketing outcomes. Subscribe to her Substack: https://www.thinkwithmarketstorm.com Website: https://marketstorm.ai/  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroleslawson/        💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

In this podcast episode, Dr. Cecilia Dones and Iesha White discuss the complex evolution of artificial intelligence within the marketing and advertising industries.  They explore the shift of AI becoming a "middle layer" between brands and consumers, highlighting how automated systems can influence purchasing decisions using unverified information.  These outstanding ladies distinguish between closed and open AI systems, warning that proprietary models often lack transparency and can lead to brand safety issues like hallucinations or data poisoning.  They emphasize that while AI offers efficiency, brands must prioritize human judgment, organic engagement, and authentic connections to maintain their reputation. Ultimately, the conversation serves as a call for marketers to implement stronger governance and return to fundamental marketing principles to navigate an increasingly automated landscape. Here are four topics we focused on: The AI "Middle Layer": AI is increasingly acting as an unapproved intermediary between brands and consumers. AI systems now generate answers, ad creative, and buying decisions using unverified information that brands did not write or approve. The Trap of Closed Systems: Major ad networks heavily push automated, "closed" AI tools (like Google's PMAX and Meta's Advantage+) to recoup their massive infrastructure investments. This leaves brands with an "illusion of choice" and little-to-no technical ability to trace, audit, or correct costly AI hallucinations. SEO Poisoning & Sabotage: Closed systems are highly vulnerable to model manipulation. A Cornell study showed it takes as few as 13 words on Reddit to completely alter Google's AI Overviews. This enables black-hat corporate espionage where bad actors can programmatically poison what LLMs say about a competitor. Defense & Adaptation: Brands must collectively lobby agencies and industry groups to demand LLM transparency. Meanwhile, marketers should prioritize core organic SEO and human-driven curation, while consumers are increasingly pushing back against digital clutter by seeking offline, real-world connections ("touch grass")   Check out the interview on YouTube!      🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides   Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library     ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and welcome 01:06 Guest introductions: Dr. Cecilia Dones and Aisha White 02:15 Why AI is becoming the middle layer between brands and consumers 04:27 Current AI developments and the importance of watching patterns 07:01 Open versus closed AI systems explained 10:13 AI errors and loss of control in digital advertising 13:00 Using AI automation without surrendering control 16:02 Why platforms are pushing advertisers toward AI 17:50 AI agents and advertising to machines 19:18 What an AI agent is and how it works 21:02 AI agents, identity, and consumer privacy 22:56 Will marketers need separate strategies for humans and AI agents? 23:48 Platforms restricting outside AI agents 25:35 Walled gardens and machine-to-machine advertising 28:01 AI hallucinations, feedback loops, and brand reputation 29:05 Why SEO, organic content, and marketing fundamentals still matter 32:16 Connecting digital marketing with real-life experiences 34:39 Expanding brand safety to include what AI says about your brand 36:08 How manipulated content can poison AI results 39:18 Practical AI protection advice for brands and agencies 41:29 Advice for consumers navigating AI-generated information 43:10 Final thoughts and guest contact information   👤 Meet Our Guests: Dr. Cecilia Dones - Founder & Chief Data Officer, Three Standard Deviations Dr. Cecilia Dones is an educator and technology leader who runs Three Standard Deviations, where she focuses on helping organizations navigate responsible technology and AI implementations. She also writes the Substack Authentic Interactions, where she shares her musings regarding technology and the lived experience. Subscribe to her Substack: https://substack.com/@ceciliadones Website: https://www.3standarddeviations.com/  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ceciliadones    Iesha White - Director of Intelligence, Check My Ads Institute Iesha White is a programmatic advertising veteran with over a decade of experience in the industry. She has worked in both the United States and the United Kingdom, spanning roles on the ad-tech side, brand side, and agency side twice each. In her current role at Check My Ads Institute, she oversees all research and investigations.  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: ​​https://www.linkedin.com/in/iesha-white-marketing/       💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

AI-driven search is changing how people discover information, and challenging the intent-based funnel publishers and advertisers have relied on for years. In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, I sit down with Christian Robinson of Ozone to explore what this shift means for publishers, programmatic traders, and the future of the open web. Christian shares how Ozone helps advertisers reach audiences across trusted, premium publisher environments while reducing duplication and wasted media spend. We discuss why first-party data, authenticated audiences, and journalistically safe inventory will become even more important as AI-generated answers reduce traditional search traffic. We also break down: How Ozone's identity graph supports de-duplicated audience reach Why advertisers should reconsider fragmented open-exchange buying How short CMO tenures affect brands, agencies, and ad-tech partners Why Christian launched The Signal Brief How AI platforms like ChatGPT could eventually monetize What advertisers need to improve their CTV creative This conversation goes beyond technology. It is about trust, quality, community, and building programmatic strategies that can survive constant change. If you are a publisher, trader, marketer, or ad-tech professional, this episode will help you understand where the industry is heading, and how to prepare.   3. 🧠 ABOUT US  We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides.Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library 4. ⏱ TIMESTAMPS For the professional listener seeking specific technical or strategic insights, chronological navigation is essential for maximizing time and extracting high-value data points. 00:00 - Introduction and welcome with co-host Manuela Cortes. 04:18 - Christian Robinson's 10-year journey: From DOOH at Itellio to Ozone. 06:45 - How AI-generated queries are breaking traditional search-based profiling. 08:50 - The founding of Ozone: Reach PLC, News Corp, The Guardian, and The Telegraph. 11:15 - De-duplicating audiences across the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal. 14:05 - Why Ozone's contracted environment is the antidote to open exchange fragmentation. 17:30 - Trends in high-impact creative: Enhancing interactivity in CTV environments. 19:45 - The Claude "anti-ad" stance vs. the inevitable monetization of ChatGPT. 22:10 - Rebranding to "The Signal Brief": Building a media company for the ad economy. 24:50 - The "Game Night at Slate" and the "Open Mic at Unruly in Bushwick" networking models. 26:15 - Analyzing the 2.5-year CMO tenure and its ripple effect on agency layoffs. 30:40 - Moving beyond "pay-to-play": Focusing on individual community members. 35:20 - Future expansion plans: Taking The Signal Brief to Philly, DC, and Chicago. 39:00 - Navigating industry isolation and seeking intentional professional community. 41:50 - Final takeaways and how to connect with Christian Robinson.Explore the professional biography below to learn more about our guest's impact on the NYC ad tech landscape. 5. 👤 MEET OUR GUEST Networking with industry architects who understand the synergy between technology and community is a prerequisite for success in modern programmatic. Christian Robinson represents a new breed of leadership, focused on securing the future of the open web while stabilizing the human network that powers it. Christian Robinson – Senior Lead at Ozone & Founder of The Signal Brief  Christian Robinson is a ten-year veteran of the programmatic advertising industry, renowned for his expertise in NYC ad tech network construction. Christian has navigated the industry's most significant shifts, from architecting digital out-of-home solutions to democratizing commerce for premium publishers at Ozone. As the founder of "The Signal Brief," he is leading a movement to transform professional networking into a media-first community that analyzes the broader economy through an advertising lens. His work is centered on providing advertisers with addressable, journalistically safe audience connections while fostering high-value, IRL opportunities for professionals at every career stage.📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianrobinson4223/ Continue below to connect with our internal team and access further programmatic education. 6. 💻 MEET THE TEAM & 🎓 LEARN PROGRAMMATIC Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach  🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español  🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/ 🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/  

In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, host and guest Rob JAnes, Head of Product at AdButler, discuss the rapidly changing landscape of publisher monetization and programmatic ad operations heading into 2025. Check out the interview on YouTube here:  https://youtu.be/EFAuN7ce1Ag  They break down the industry-wide adjustments following Google's unexpected decision not to deprecate third-party cookies and the subsequent pivot to internal identity resolution systems. A major focus of the conversation is the existential crisis content creators face due to declining traffic, driven by generative AI search summaries (like ChatGPT, Claude, and Google AI Overviews). Rob explores how AdButler is helping publishers adapt through engineering solutions, including Model Context Protocol (MCP) servers for "agentic ad ops," specialized retail media technology (Commerce Catalyst), and turnkey self-service marketplaces that can run directly on top of Google Ad Manager (GAM). They also look ahead to the future of programmatic agencies, predicting a shift from clunky DSP interfaces to autonomous media-buying AI agents guided by emerging standards like the Ad Context Protocol (ADCP). Key Takeaways The AI Traffic Squeeze: Content publishers are experiencing declining site visits as users migrate from traditional search queries to conversational AI summaries (such as ChatGPT, Claude, or Google AI Overviews) that aggregate content offsite. Monetizing AI Scraping: An emerging front in publisher revenue is demanding compensation from LLM companies (like Anthropic or OpenAI) for scraping site content. Driven by concepts discussed by industry leaders like Scott Messer, specialized startups and platforms are expected to launch within 3 to 6 months to help publishers charge scrapers. The Post-Cookie Pivot: Google's late-2025 reversal on cookie deprecation disrupted industry expectations, yet it ultimately accelerated publishers' adoption of first-party and alternative identity resolution standards like ID5 and UID2. Low-Overhead Self-Service Portals: AdButler's self-service portal builder allows local or small advertisers to purchase ad placements directly via credit card. This bypasses the need for high-overhead sales teams, making buying on publisher sites as seamless as running campaigns on Meta or LinkedIn, and can even integrate on top of existing Google Ad Manager (GAM) setups. Why Traditional Ad Servers Fail Retail Media Networks (RMNs): Standard servers like GAM are volume-based (impressions and clicks) rather than performance-driven. RMNs require unified online and offline transactional data paired with SKU-level tracking to deliver highly relevant, objective-based product ads. Agentic Ad Ops & Media Buying: AdButler has introduced Model Context Protocol (MCP) server integration, enabling ad ops teams to conversationally manage campaigns, analyze metrics, and create automated optimization rules via Claude or OpenAI. On the programmatic buyer side, protocols like the Ad Context Protocol (ADCP) and IAB's agentic protocol are paving the way for autonomous AI buying agents to eventually run campaigns across DSPs without manual human intervention.       🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides.Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library     ⏱ Timestamps: [00:00] Introduction to Rob JAnes and AdButler [02:15] The 2025 Publisher Landscape & Cookie Reversals [05:30] The Existential Threat of Conversational AI Summary Engines [08:45] Monetizing AI Scrapers & The Shift to Offsite Revenue [12:15] Inside AdButler & Commerce Catalyst for Retail Media [14:45] Conversational Campaign Management via AdButler's MCP [16:45] Turnkey Self-Service Marketplaces to Eliminate Sales Overhead [19:45] Why Traditional Ad Servers Fall Short for Retail and Commerce Networks [27:15] The ADCP Protocol and the Coming Era of AI Agent Agencies [31:00] Episode Wrap-up and Final Remarks       👤 Meet Our Guest: Rob Janes – Head of Product at AdButler Rob has been working in the adtech space for close to a decade. At AdButler, he runs the product development teams as well as customer-facing departments, including support and engineering. His day-to-day work spans direct deals, programmatic connectors, and emerging ad serving integrations. A self-described "product guy" rather than a sales person, he focuses on developing engineering-first solutions to solve complex publisher and retail challenges 📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-alexander-janes/   https://www.adbutler.com/      💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest