The Rhodes Center Podcast with Mark Blyth

When it comes to governing our economy, estimates rule the day. We want to know what effect a policy might have on the government’s budget, on economic growth, on employment…in the next 1 year, 5 years, 10 years…you get the idea. If you want to make (or critique) public policy, you better have numbers to back it up. To get those types of estimates, economists and politicians often rely on institutions like the Office for Budget Responsibility in the UK, or the Congressional Budget Office in the United States. As a result, their estimates and fiscal projections form crucial data points in our modern politics and policymaking. We like to think that these estimates and projections (not to mention, the people who make them) come from somewhere outside of our partisan politics. That while our values might be debatable, the numbers, at least, aren’t.But, as Mark Blyth’s guest on this episode explains: that idea is a fantasy, and to the extent it obscures the values and politics that are baked into organizations like the Office of Budget Responsibility, it’s a dangerous one. On this episode, Mark Blyth talks with Ben Clift, author of “The Office for Budget Responsibility and the Politics of Technocratic Economic Governance.” In it, he pulls back the curtain on Britain's Office for Budget Responsibility, and reveals the hidden processes and ideologies that shape the estimates and projections that come out of it. In doing so, he shows how the OBR – and other institutions like it – are much more political than they appear. Learn more about and purchase “The Office for Budget Responsibility and the Politics of Technocratic Economic Governance”Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts

When you think of high-end luxury commodities, you might imagine yachts, private jets, or even whole islands. But in the last few years, another commodity has started to receive a lot of attention from the world’s wealthiest people: citizenship. With enough money, people can buy their way into becoming a citizen of a growing list of countries around the world. While this trend has garnered lots of attention in the last few years, as our guest on this episode explains, there’s so much more to the story than meets the eye. Kristin Surak is a sociologist and author of the new book “The Golden Passport: Global Mobility for Millionaires.” In it, she pulls back the curtain on this rarified luxury market — who’s buying, who’s selling, and the complex web of middlemen that make it all work. On this episode, Mark Blyth talks with Surak about what might be called the “citizenship industrial complex”’ and what it says about our global economy. Learn more about and purchase “The Golden Passport: Global Mobility for Millionaires”Learn more about our other podcasts at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs

Listeners of the Rhodes Center Podcast have probably heard of companies like Black Rock, State Street and Vanguard. You’ve also probably heard how, through ETFs and other investment products, these types of investment firms own a staggering share of the world’s biggest companies (20-25% of the S&P 500 by some estimates). But in this episode, you’ll hear about a whole other side of asset management; one that’s more opaque, and possibly much more influential (and corrosive) to our daily lives.  Brett Christophers is a geographer and professor at Uppsala University’s Institute for Housing and Urban Research, and author of the new book “Our Lives in Their Portfolios: Why Asset Managers Own the World.” In it, he explains how asset management companies like Blackstone and Macquarie Asset Management do more than passively own shares. Over the last few decades, they've begun to invest in and actively run a growing portion of our infrastructure and essential services: hospitals, care homes, water treatment plants, bridges and even parking meters. On this episode, he talks with Mark Blyth about the economics of this new subspecies of asset management, and how they’ve begun to reshape our society, economy and planet in ways we don’t fully understand. Learn about and purchase “Our Lives in Their Portfolios: Why Asset Managers Own the World”Learn more about other podcasts from the Watson Institute at Brown University

On this podcast, you’ve heard from a range of experts about the policies and politics of decarbonization. But what does the fight against climate change look like from the business side?Sophie Purdom is the Founder and Managing Partner of Planeteer Capital, a venture capital fund that invests in early-stage climate technology companies. She also writes Climate Tech VC, an industry newsletter that goes deep into the business side of the green transition. On this episode, Sophie Purdom talks with a special guest host for the Rhodes Center Podcast, political scientist and director of the Watson Institute’s Climate Solutions Lab Jeff Colgan. They talk about the world of “climate tech,” as it’s known in the startup community, how the industry started, where it’s going, and what it can teach us about the relationship between private enterprise and the global fight against climate change.Learn more about and subscribe to Sophie Purdom’s newsletter, Climate Tech VCLearn more about the Climate Solutions Lab at the Watson InstituteLearn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts

In 2015, economists Anne Case and Angus Deaton published a paper that revealed something startling: an increase in mortality rates in the United States among white middle-aged men and women between the years of 1999 and 2013. They published a book in 2020 that aimed to explain the trend, which they attributed to — among other factors — economic stagnation, social isolation, and the opioid crisis. The book, titled “Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism,”, caused a stir inside and outside the field of economics, as people tried to make sense of America’s economy and society in the Trump years. On this episode, Rhodes Center Director Mark Blyth talks with Deaton about his newest book “Economics in America: An Immigrant Economist Explores the Land of Inequality,” which takes a broader view of the issues brought up in “Deaths of Despair.” They explore the pervasiveness of inequality in America, how it relates to the “deaths of despair” phenomenon, and why the field of economics often seems blind to the most pressing issues facing individuals and communities.Learn more about and purchase “Economics in America: An Immigrant Economist Explores the Land of Inequality”Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other award-winning podcasts

This is part three in our companion series to the book “Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation” (co-edited by Mark Blyth, Lucio Baccaro and Jonas Pontusson). On this episode, Mark talks with four contributors for the book: Alex Reisenbichler, Aidan Regan, Oddný Helgadóttir, and Jonas Nahm. They look at case studies in a handful of countries, as well as some of the cross-cutting trends affecting all growth models across the world. They explore the role of finance and politics in growth models, and how the climate crisis is making us rethink this all even further. Learn more about and purchase “Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation”Listen to part one of this seriesListen to part two of this seriesLearn more about and listen to Watson’s other podcasts

This is part two in our companion series to the book “Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation” (co-edited by Mark Blyth, Lucio Baccaro and Jonas Pontusson). In part one (which, if you haven’t listened to, we’d recommend you go back and do), Mark and his guests discussed how growth models are almost like the business model for a country. But of course, countries don’t exist in isolation. They can rise and fall together, and operate as regional economies tied into wider global networks. So…what do growth models look like at scale? How should we even think about them? To explore this concept, Mark spoke with two contributors to the book. Jazmin Sierra is an assistant professor of political science at Notre Dame, whose work focuses on the political economy of Latin America. Alison Johnston is an associate professor of political science at Oregon State University, whose work focuses on the European Union. Learn more about and purchase “Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation”Listen to part one of this seriesLearn more about and listen to Watson’s other podcasts

This is the first in a three-part series on Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation, a book co-edited by Mark Blyth, Lucio Baccaro, and Jonas Pontusson. Using examples from around the world, the book offers a new understanding of what happens to our politics when growth slows down. In this episode, Mark grills his co-authors about how the book came to be, and the big questions that guided its creation. Guests on this episode:Lucio Baccaro, Director at the Max Planck Institute for the Study of SocietiesJonas Pontusson, Professor of Comparative Politics at the University of GenevaLearn more about and purchase Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and StagnationLearn more about the Watson Institutes’ other podcasts 

In 1849, the historian and philosopher Thomas Carlyle referred to economics as the “dismal science.” The pejorative stuck, and is still slung by critics of the field today. But what if economics is worse than “dismal”? What it’s…harmful? George DeMartino’s recent book, “The Tragic Science: How Economists Cause Harm (Even as They Aspire to Do Good)”, makes exactly that claim: that economists aren’t just ineffective at solving social problems; they often end up creating new ones. Worse still – since economics lacks a meaningful criteria for defining what harm is, economists often don’t know how to measure (and fix) the problems they create. George is an economist himself, and his work isn’t just a pile-on against the field. Rather, his critique points a way towards a more socially engaged version of economics – one that takes the notion of harm seriously. Learn more about and purchase “The Tragic Science How Economists Cause Harm (Even as They Aspire to Do Good)”Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts

On this episode Mark Blyth talks with this year’s invited speaker at the Rhodes Center’s annual 'Ethics of Capitalism’ lecture series, journalist D​​avid de Jong. David’s groundbreaking book “Nazi Billionaires: The Dark History of Germany's Wealthiest Dynasties”, looks at the individuals and companies that accumulated unimaginable wealth under the Third Reich. Through his incredible investigative work, he exposes how these companies – including iconic German businesses like Volkswagen, BMW, and Allianz – thrived under the Nazi regime. He also looks at how, despite their dark history, most have never fully reconciled with their past – and how the families that founded such enterprises have only grown more wealthy in the decades since. David and Mark discuss this dark history, and explore the questions it poses about the nature of capitalism: how can businesses operate responsibly in a world where it’s so easy to profit off the suffering of others? And what do private companies owe the rest of us, above their bottom line? Learn more about and purchase “Nazi Billionaires: The Dark History of Germany's Wealthiest Dynasties”Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts

The history of international politics since 1945. The role of values in the global economy. The future of America’s relationship with China. All three of these would be ambitious topics for a work of political economy. But combining them? That’s not for the faint of heart.  However, that’s exactly what Sir Paul Tucker has done in his new book, “Global Discord: Values and Power in a Fractured World Order”. Tucker is a former central banker, and a current research fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. In this episode, Mark Blyth talks about the book with Paul and political economist Aditi Sahasrabudde. Learn more about and purchase “Global Discord: Values and Power in a Fractured World Order”Watch Sir Paul Tucker’s recent talk at the Rhodes CenterLearn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts 

One concept that comes up a lot on the Rhodes Center Podcast: the idea of the 'free market’.The idea, as you might know it, begins with John Locke, is fashioned fully by Adam Smith, and is delivered to us gift-wrapped (after some delays) by the likes of Hayek and Friedman in the mid 20th century.But as our guest on this episode explains, the idea of the free market is hardly so straightforward. Jacob Soll is a professor of philosophy, history, and accounting at the University of Southern California, and in his book “Free Market: The History of an Idea,” he begins way back in ancient Rome, stops in 17th-century France with Louis XIV’s minister Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and, on the way to the present, barely mentions Adam Smith at all. No matter what you think of when you hear the words ‘free market’, Jacob's incredibly informative – and highly readable – history will make you see the concept in a whole new light. Learn more about and purchase Jacob’s Book “Free Market: The History of an Idea”Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts 

On the last episode of the podcast, Mark talked with two experts regarding the Inflation Reduction Act, and the political and logistical challenges of accelerating a ‘Green Transition’ in the US. Which makes for an interesting comparison to our topic today.Because these days, when people want to critique how slow and ineffective the US government can be, they often compare it to another country – one that we tell ourselves is where big government projects happen faster and better than almost anywhere: China.But as Iza Ding, an assistant professor of political science at the University of Pittsburgh, explains to Mark on this episode, China’s government might not be quite as dominant and proficient as we think. And nowhere is this more clear than at the local level, as Iza explores in her recent book, “The Performative State: Public Scrutiny and Environmental Governance in China.”Even though the book focuses on aspects of environmental governance like conservation and pollution mitigation, her conclusions are far-reaching. Primarily, the idea that even so-called strong states have weaknesses, and when they are asked to address them, they often ‘perform’ the task of governing in informative and surprising ways. Learn more about and purchase Iza Ding's book "The Performative State: Public Scrutiny and Environmental Governance in China".Learn more about other podcasts from the Watson Institute. 

Over the last two years, if you had asked Mark Blyth if the Biden administration would ever do anything meaningful to fight climate change, he’d have said “no.” These feelings only got stronger in 2021, after the Democrats failed to pass their first big attempt at climate legislation, known as ‘Build Back Better.’But then, something changed. The Inflation Reduction Act became law. And despite the name, it’s a decarbonization bill, and a better one than Mark ever thought we were going to get. (It might also reduce inflation, but that’s for another episode).In this episode, Mark talks with two experts about why climate legislation was finally able to get passed in the United States, and what it means for the country and the planet. Tim Sahay is a physicist, Senior Policy Manager of Green New Deal Network, and Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council. Ted Fertik is a historian, and Senior Strategist for Policy and Research with the Working Families Party. As they both see it, this bill has the potential not just to curb the worst of climate change, but to transform our society. Watch Mark, Tim, and Ted’s recent event at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University. (An updated slide deck for presentation can be found here.)Learn more about the Rhodes Center.Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts. 

In the last few years, globalization has gotten an increasingly a bad rap. Whether because of increasing geopolitical tensions over high end computers chips, or the realization that when you outsource your manufacturing base it’s quite hard to make things in a hurry (see: the pandemic), people across the political spectrum are calling time on ‘make it there, ship it here.’ It seems that politicians of all stripes want to roll back global supply chains and ‘friendshore’ all our wants and needs. The problem with doing so however lies at the level of the firm, as has recently been pointed out by Jonas Nahm. And for a number of reasons, it won’t be an easy transition. Jonas is an Assistant Professor of Energy, Resources, and Environment at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and author of the recent and excellent book Collaborative Advantage: Forging Green Industries in the New Global Economy. On this episode, Mark talks with Jonas about all the ways that private firms, domestic institutions, and national industrial policies mesh together to produce outcomes that are more than the sum of their parts. Watch Jonas’s presentation at the Rhodes Center.Learn more about and purchase Collaborative Advantage: Forging Green Industries in the New Global Economy.Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts. 

This episode is a little different than the type of conversation you normally have on the show. Last year, Mark spoke with Oded Galor about his book The Journey of Humanity, a long-run take on why humanity changed so little for so long, and then all of sudden changed tremendously, mostly for the better. It’s a fascinating idea, but of course nobody actually experiences that long-run journey, or compares their daily life to distant ancestors. People typically think on the much shorter timescale of a lifetime, maybe a generation or two. At that scale, for many people in America today, it can seem like much of life has gotten worse, and are continuing to do so. Put another way: it looks like the American Dream is dead.But is that true? What does it mean for a dream to die, anyway? And if it is dead, is there a way to revive it? These sound like questions for a philosopher. Someone who has thought about this a great deal is Josh Preiss. He’s a philosopher, Professor at Minnesota State University, and author of Just Work For All: The American Dream in the 21st Century. On this episode, Mark talks with Josh about the ideas behind what we call ‘The American Dream,’ and looks at the reality behind its decline: what’s gotten worse for who, and what’s needed to make things better. Learn more about and purchase Josh Preiss’s book.Watch Josh’s talk at the Rhodes Center.Find more information about all our episodes, including transcripts, on our website. 

On this episode Mark talks with Oded Galor, Professor of Economics at Brown University, and author of the new book The Journey of Humanity: The Origins of Wealth and Inequality. In this book Oded survey’s 200,000 years of human history to create a theory for why societies and economies grew so slowly for so long – and why, starting about 200 years ago, that began to change very rapidly. It’s a sweeping history that puts the work of many influential economists into a new light – from Adam Smith to Karl Marx to Paul Romer. But Oded’s story is about much more than economics. It’s about technology, geography, psychology, and politics. In short, it’s about the nature of humanity. Mark and Oded discuss all of this, as well as how – as we stumble through a global pandemic and catastrophic climate change – we can grow in ways that benefit us all.Learn more about and purchase Oded’s book The Journey of Humanity.Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts.

There’s a standard story economists and historians use to explain the global economy over the last 100 years: there was the gold standard, which gave way to the Bretton Woods system, which gave way to “neoliberal globalization”. But on this episode of the Rhodes Center Podcast, Mark talks with someone whose work challenges this story by attacking its foundational myth with deep archival work. James Ashely Morrison is an associate professor of International Relations at the London School of Economics and Political Science, and author of the new book England’s Cross of Gold: Keynes, Churchill, and the Governance of Economic Beliefs. In it, he recounts the fight over Britain’s return to the Gold Standard after World War I, and comes to a bold conclusion: there never really was a “gold standard” – at least, not as we understand it. As James makes vividly clear, the “gold standard” was always more of an idea about a perfect state of the world, rather than an economic reality. As such, fights over it have always been less about actual monetary policy, and more about how people believe the economy is supposed to work. James’ work not only adds depth and nuance to this misunderstood turning point in 20th century economics. As he and Mark discuss, it also forces us to reconsider so many of the more contemporary stories we’ve been told about how our economy works, and why. Learn more about James’ book England’s Cross of Gold: Keynes, Churchill, and the Governance of Economic Beliefs. Watch the talk James’ gave at the Rhodes Center this Spring.  

From 2019 to 2021, Frances Haugen worked as a Product Manager in Facebook’s Civic Integrity Department. During that time she got an inside view into how Facebook’s algorithms are deliberately designed to influence its users. She also saw something deeply worrying: that this influence was often used to grow Facebook’s profits at the expense of users' safety and wellbeing. In 2021 she anonymously leaked tens of thousands of internal documents to the Wall Street Journal. Since then she’s testified before Congress on the matter, and helped start a global movement to better understand and regulate Big Tech. On this episode Mark talks with Frances about her experience whistleblowing on one of the world’s most powerful companies, and what she thinks we need to do to create social media platforms that are compatible with a functioning democracy. Learn more about and listens to the Watson Institute's other podcasts.

In the last few years we’ve seen critiques of free trade from across the political spectrum. Trump focused on the US-China trade imbalance, while the left focuses its ire on free trade agreements themselves. It’s, of course, not the first time that protectionist ideas have found currency in a globalizing economy.  In the late 18th century a theory known as ‘neomercantilism’ began to thrive in a number of western countries. It was a theory, most famously espoused by the German thinker Friedrich List, that focused on protectionism and government activism to create an industrial state. But as Eric Helleiner, a political science professor at the University of Waterloo explores in his new book ‘The Neomercantilists,’ this movement did not start in Europe and diffuse out to the rest of the world. Rather, it was a truly global phenomenon, with intellectual roots springing up everywhere from Africa to Asia to Latin America.On this episode Mark talks with Eric about the neglected intellectual traditions that gave rise to varieties of neomercantilism. Eric’s analysis not only helps explain the protectionist revivals of today. It also challenges Western readers’ assumptions about how economic theory develops, and how economic ideas gain influence around the world. Watch Eric’s live conversation with Mark here. Learn more about the Watson Institute’s other podcasts.