The Road to Now

James Armistead Lafayette lived a remarkable life. After being granted permission by his enslaver to enlist in the cause, James joined up with the Marquis de Lafayette and served as one of the most important spies in the Revolutionary war. After many years of petitioning for his freedom, James eventually gained his freedom and officially changed his last name to Lafayette after the Frenchman with which he served and who later petitioned Congress for James’ freedom.   In this episode, we learn more about the fascinating life of James Armistead Lafayette from Stephen Seals, the historical interpreter who has played James at Colonial Williamsburg for more than a decade.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Did you know that Woodrow Wilson didn’t have a regular job until he was 28 years old? Or that he didn’t complete all the requirements for a PhD? After retiring from politics in 2009, former Congressman and Securities & Exchange Commission Chair Christopher Cox decided to turn to history. The result is his new book, Woodrow Wilson: The Light Withdrawn, which gives special attention to Wilson's views on race and women's rights, presenting the 28thPresident as “a man superbly unsuited to the moment when he ascended to the Presidency.” In this episode, Chris joins us to share the path that led him to Woodrow Wilson, the reasons he came to such an unfavorable opinion of him, and what his work adds to our understanding of a Presidency that has rapidly gone from reverence to rebuke.   Find out more about the book at thelightwithdrawn.com.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer

Most Americans are aware of Colombia’s role in the international drug trade, but we know less about the role that Americans’ played in the story as consumers, smuggling pioneers, and practitioners of a foreign policy that facilitated the rise of Colombian drug production.   In this episode, journalist and historian Lina Britto shares the fascinating story of how Colombia emerged as a major supplier of drugs to American consumers and how this relationship affected people in both countries. She also explains the origins of the “War on Drugs” in the US and tells the story of how Americans hippies in search of marijuana laid the groundwork for the distribution techniques later used by Pablo Escobar’s cocaine cartel.   Dr. Lina Britto is Associate Professor of History at Northwestern University where she specializes in Colombian history and the history of the international drug trade. She is the author of Marijuana Boom: The Rise and Fall of Colombia's First Drug Paradise (University of California Press, 2020)   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

US immigration policy has become one of the most contentious issues in American politics, but there is one point on which most of us agree: our immigration policy is broken. And while the sheer number of interests involved mean that an easy fix is unlikely, the best place to start is with a sound understanding of how we got the immigration system we have today. As a historian of immigration who currently serves as Director for the Americas and Europe at Refugees International, Yael Schacher has a particularly well informed perspective on this issue. In this episode, Yael walks us through the history of immigration policy in the US and shares what she sees as the major challenges that stand in the way of reforming our current immigration system. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

It’s flu season, so this week on the show, we’re bringing you something seasonal: a history of epidemics in two parts. In part 1, we talk about the 1918 influenza outbreak with John Barry, author of the NY Times Best-seller Seller The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (Penguin, 2005). And in part 2 we dig into the history of infectious disease with epidemiologist Erin Welsh, co-host of This Podcast Will Kill You. This episode is a supercut of #120 The History of Influenza w/ John Barry and #151 Live in Chicago w/ Pete Souza & Erin Welsh, both of which originally aired in 2019. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The Constitution empowers the electoral college to select the President, but the process for counting electors’ votes remains in the hands of Congress. In this episode, Constitutional Law Professor Edward Foley explains the origins of the electoral college, how and why the 12th Amendment changed the process for electing Presidents, and the concerns that led Congress to codify the procedure for counting electors’ votes in 1887. Edward also offers some specific ways that updating the Electoral Count Act of 1887 might help us avoid some of the potential problems that might arise in upcoming elections.   Edward Foley holds the Ebersold Chair in Constitutional Law at The Ohio State University, where he also directs its election law program. He is a regular contributor to The Washington Post and the author of multiple books, including Ballot Battles: The History of Disputed Elections in the United States (Oxford University Press, 2016) and Presidential Elections and Majority Rule (Oxford University Press, 2020). You can follow him on twitter at @NedFoley.   This is a rebroadcast of RTN #224 which originally aired on February 21, 2022. This version has been updated and abridged by Ben Sawyer. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Most accounts of women in mid-20th century American politics highlight trailblazers such as Frances Perkins or the handful of women elected to Congress in those years. But women’s participation in politics- both as voters and as party activists- was far more significant than most Americans realize, elevating a group of white middle-class women into positions of influence over Presidents from Franklin Roosevelt to Dwight Eisenhower.   Melissa Blair joins Ben & Bob to talk about how and why these women became cornerstones of party politics in these years and why they’ve largely been forgotten in our national memory. Melissa’s book, Bringing Home the White House: The Hidden History of Women Who Shaped the Presidency in the Twentieth Century, chronicles the lives of five influential women whose work was critical in helping their party’s candidate win the White House in this era.   Melissa Estes Blair is a Professor of History at Auburn University whose research focuses on women and politics in the United States in the twentieth century.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

On the surface, the election of 1872 might seem insignificant in US history; Ulysses Grant easily won reelection to the White House and his Republican Party maintained their dominance in both houses of Congress. In the south, however, the violence that followed the election at the state and local level was an ominous sign that the era of Reconstruction might soon be over. And, according to Dana Bash and her co-author David Fischer, nowhere saw more violence than Louisiana. In this episode, Dana joins Ben & Bob to discuss her new book America’s Deadliest Election: The Cautionary Tale of the Most Violent Election in American History, and how the violence that followed the 1872 election in Louisiana – including the slaughter of 150 unarmed black Americans in the small town of Colfax – laid the foundation for the restoration of white supremacy in the south. Dana Bash is chief political correspondent at CNN, where she also anchors Inside Politics and co-anchors State of the Union alongside Jake Tapper. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In 2021, Neil King Jr. threw a few basic items into a backpack and walked from his home in Washington, DC to New York City. Over the next 26 days/330 miles, he met new people, uncovered forgotten moments of history, and spent many days thinking about America. In this episode, Neil joins Ben and Bob to discuss his book, American Ramble: A Walk of Memory and Renewal, and the lessons he learned along the way. Before walking from his house in DC to New York City, Neil King Jr. worked as a journalist for outlets across the globe, including The Tampa Tribune, The Prague Post, and The Wall Street Journal. On Sept 17, 2024, Neil King Jr.. passed away at age 65 from complications caused by esophageal cancer. We are reairing this episode to celebrate the excellence of his work and as a reminder that we are surrounded by beauty. We hope that this conversation – which is just one tiny line in Neil’s legacy- will help you to see the common ground we all share and the adventures that surround us if we just take the time to look. This episode originally aired as RTN #271 on May 1, 2023. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

For a long time, it seemed like not much happened in the 1970s. Today it seems like so much of what’s happening can be traced back to those same years. The 1970s was a pivotal decade in American history. In a ten-year span, the United States admitted defeat in Vietnam, saw a President (and Vice President) resign in shame, and came face to face with its leaders’ abuse of power at home and abroad. At the same time, American citizens directly experienced a score of problems, including “stagflation,” an energy crisis, and the consequences of environmental devastation. Yet in this era of deconstruction and disappointment, the political coalitions than defined the US from the 1980s until (today/recently?) were forged. In this episode, Jefferson Cowie joins us to talk about his book Stayin Alive: The 1970s and the Last Days of the Working and what happened in the decade in which everything now seems to have happened. Dr. Jefferson Cowie is James G. Stahlman Professor of History at Vanderbilt University and the author of multiple award-winning books, including Freedom’s Dominion: A Saga of White Resistance to Federal Power, which was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 2023. You can hear him discuss Freedom’s Dominion in episode #255, and check out his multiple appearances on the show by searching You can find out more about Jefferson Cowie and his work at his website by clicking here. This is a rebroadcast of episode #115, which originally aired on December 18, 2017. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The debates over school curricula, banned books, and what educators can teach in their classes have become increasingly polarizing in recent years, but they are nothing new in the US. For those who researched, wrote and taught about the Soviet Union under Stalin during the Cold War, following the evidence to a conclusion that challenged America’s established narrative could lead to denunciations and accusations of disloyalty. Despite this challenge, a generation of scholars dedicated their professional life to the study of Soviet history, generating far more in-depth and humane accounts of the past than the black and white narratives offered up by most political scientists and others who presented Soviet society as atomized and powerless. As one of the most prolific Russian historians of his generation, Lewis Siegelbaum knows this story well. In this episode, he joins us to discuss his new book, Reflections on Stalinism, in which he, co-editor Arch Getty and ten of their peers share their own reflections on how they came to study Soviet history, how the political environment affected their own work, and what they got right (and wrong) in their career. Lewis also shares his story of witnessing the unexpected collapse of the USSR, what we learned when Soviet archives opened in the 1990s, and how current events remain haunted by the simplistic view of Russian history to which many Americans still adhere. Dr. Lewis Siegelbaum is Jack and Margaret Sweet Professor Emeritus of History at Michigan State University where he taught from 1983 until 2018. He has authored multiple award-winning books on Soviet history, including Cars for Comrades: The Life of the Soviet Automobile, and served as doctoral advisor to many aspiring scholars, including Ben Sawyer. If you’re interested in learning more about Soviet history, we recommend that you check out the website Seventeen Moments in Soviet History, which Lewis cofounded and is the most widely-used online source for teaching and learning about Soviet history.    This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

John Adams’ single term as President has long been cast as a low point in his political career, but Lindsay Chervinsky sees it differently. "George Washington created the Presidency,” she writes in her new book Making the Presidency, “but John Adams defined it.” In this episode, Lindsay joins us to share why she sees Adams as a crucial figure in transforming an office that had been established for, and created by, George Washington, into a position with the customs and practices that could be passed down through generations. Along the way, Lindsay explains why she thinks we’ve gotten Adams so wrong (hint: both Jefferson and Hamilton disliked his politics), the crucial role he played in establishing a peaceful transition of power, and how the January 6th insurrection might help us all have a greater appreciation for President John Adams. Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky is the Executive Director of the George Washington Presidential Library and author of the new book Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents That Forged the Republic, which is out September 5th, 2024 from Oxford University Press. You can find out more about her work at her website: lindsaychervinsky.com If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out Lindsay Chervinsky's  previous RTN appearances on The Road to Now: ·      #184: The President’s Cabinet ·      #263: Mourning the Presidents ·      #296: The Election of 1824 (Part 1 in our Third Party Elections Series)   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher

The 2024 Presidential election is in full swing and so is the parade of personal attacks, appeals to emotion and (most important for us) grandiose and unsubstantiated claims about history. And of the many statements that fall in that last category, one stands out as both exceptionally ridiculous and a perfect setup to connect today’s politics to the past: Donald Trump’s claim that Kamala Harris is “considered the worst Vice President in history.”   Much like Trump himself, who followed by saying “I don’t know who the hell did that, if they do polls…” we couldn’t find any valid ranking of all 49 Vice Presidents, let alone one that ranked Harris in last place. So we decided to take the issue on ourselves and ask you to help us elect the candidate that you think deserves the title of “America’s Worst Vice President.”   To help you make your choice, Vanderbilt historian and This Day in Esoteric Political History co-host Nicole Hemmer joins Ben to explain the power and responsibilities allocated to the Vice President under the Constitution, the history of the office itself, and the changes brought about by the 12th and 25th Amendments. Most importantly, however, Ben and Niki make their pitches for who they think is the worst Vice President and reach consensus on the VPs who should be in the Final Four. The rest is up to you- you just have to vote:   Click here to vote in the Final Four (Voting Closes Sunday, Sept 1st at 3pm edt)*   *We’re using the polling function on our Patreon page, but you do not need to be a patron to vote in this poll- it just makes it easier for us to centralize the votes in one place!   The Finals will open at 8pm on Monday, Sept 2nd and run until Sunday, Sept 8th. Click here to follow us on socials for links to vote when they become available.   This episode was recorded in the podcast studio at Vanderbilt University’s Curb Center. A special thanks to the Curb Center’s David Wilson and Gina Yu for their help in arranging this recording.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

With a sitting VP running for President for the first time since Al Gore’s failed bid for the White House in 2000, there’s been a lot of talk about the role the VP plays in government, the impact a VP pick has on a Presidential campaign, and just how much Kamala Harris’ record as VP/relationship to President Joe Biden can show us about her own agenda, should she win the White House. So today we begin a three-episode ­run focused on the Vice Presidency and those who have held the office with a conversation on Lyndon B. Johnson. Lyndon B. Johnson’s Presidency is bookended by the tragedies of JFK’s assassination and the escalation of the Vietnam war, but his career in politics and the policies he championed transcend his time in the Oval Office. In this episode, two of the foremost experts on LBJ, Mark Updegrove and Mark A. Lawrence, join Bob & Ben to discuss Johnson’s life and legacy. Mark Updegrove is the President & CEO of the LBJ Foundation in Austin, TX, the presidential historian for ABC News, and the author of multiple books on Presidential History, including Indomitable Will: LBJ in the Presidency. Dr. Mark Atwood Lawrence  is Director of the LBJ Presidential Library and Museum and Associate Professor of History at UT-Austin. He is the author of multiple books on US history including The Vietnam War:  A Concise International History. This is a rebroadcast of RTN #256, which originally aired on December 12, 2022. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

On August 15th, 1824, the Marquis de Lafayette returned to the United States for a grand farewell tour. It was his first visit since leaving the US in the late 1780s. The tour was a unifying moment for a deeply divided country.  In the wake of a crippling economic downturn, and a fracturing over the Missouri question and the issue of slavery, the nation was in the midst of a bitter Presidential election. The first without a political or military hero of the American Revolution on the ballot. Lafayette’s visit, if only for a moment, reminded the nation of the Spirit of 76 and their beloved adopted French son.   Thanks to the organization, American Friends of Lafayette, for the next thirteen months, Lafayette 200 celebrations will retrace the steps of the Marquee de Lafayette’s historic tour.   On this episode of the Road to Now we welcome Historical Interpreter, Mark Schneider. Mark has embodied Lafayette for over 25 years. Along the way he has educated students of history young and old about Lafayette’s life and the role he played in the American Revolution.   If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out our episode on The Lafayette Trail w/ Julian Ischer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast apps.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Journalist David Menconi has documented the people and sounds of North Carolina’s music scene for almost three decades. In this episode, Ben and guest co-host Dolph Ramseur speak with David about his book Step It Up and Go: The Story of North Carolina Popular Music, from Blind Boy Fuller and Doc Watson to Nina Simone and Superchunk, and how the music of “The Old North State” is both reflected in, and a reflection of, its people. David Menconi spent 28 years writing for the Raleigh News & Observer and was Piedmont Laureate in 2019. His other works include Ryan Adams: Losering, A Story of Whiskeytown" (University of Texas Press, 2012); "Comin’ Right at Ya: How a Jewish Yankee Hippie Went Country, or, the Often Outrageous History of Asleep at the Wheel. (co-written with Ray Benson, University of Texas Press, 2015). You can follow him on twitter at @NCDavidMenconi. Guest co-host Dolph Ramseur is the founder of Ramseur Records and a member of the North Carolina Hall of Fame. If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out David's second appearance on our show in episode #286 Rounder Records and the Transformation of American Roots Music.  If you’re enjoying The Road to Now, please consider joining us on Patreon, giving us a 5 star rating/review on Apple podcasts and sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy it. Thank you! This is a rebroadcast of RTN #182, which originally aired on October 19, 2020. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.   

The Stone Pony and its hometown of Asbury Park, New Jersey are iconic settings in the story of some of America’s greatest rock musicians, including Bruce Springsteen, Steven Van Zandt, and Southside Johnny Lyon. The Pony’s path from high-risk passion project to iconic venue was, however, anything but direct; from its founding in 1974, the club was caught in the greater forces at work in late-20th century America.   So how did the Stone Pony thrive when so many other venues closed? And what set Asbury Park apart from so many other American towns? In this episode, The New York Times’ Nick Corasaniti joins us to talk about his new book I Don’t Want To Go Home: The Oral History of the Stone Pony (Harpers, 2024) and what he learned from interviewing Bruce Springsteen and dozens of other musicians and industry professionals who helped make the club into what it is today.   If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out our episodes on The Kinks with Mark Doyle and The Allman Brothers’ At Fillmore East with Bob Beatty.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Joe Biden has decided to decline the Democratic nomination for the Presidency in 2024 so today we take a look back at Biden’s path to seek the nomination in 2020 and Ben shares his thoughts on why July 21, 2024 might be the day that secures Biden’s legacy in American history.   Our conversation with Robert Costa on his book Peril, which he co-authored with Robert Woodward, originally aired as RTN episode 213 on November 15, 2021. This episode includes an edited version of that conversation with a new introduction by Ben. The original episode description is below: The 2020 Presidential election was one of the most tumultuous in American history, and while Joe Biden’s victory over Donald Trump is settled, Trump’s refusal to accept defeat has had implications that transcend his time in the oval office. In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Robert Costa, whose new book Peril draws on his and co-author Bob Woodward’s extensive investigation of the Biden and Trump campaigns and Trump’s handling of executive power during his time in office. Robert explains how he finds and vets sources, his method of “deep background” interviews, and how he maintains journalistic disinterest in the face of intense partisan conflict. He also discusses what he learned about Trump and Biden as candidates and individuals and why he believes that the peril that characterized the Trump-Biden transition remains a source of concern more than a year after the 2020 election.   Robert Costa is the chief election & campaign correspondent for CBS News, where he covers national politics and American democracy. You can follow him on twitter at @CostaReports.   If you enjoyed this conversation, check out our previous conversation with Robert in RTN #130 Sources, Methods & Music w/ Robert Costa.   “I think you’ve always been fair.” -Donald Trump to Robert Woodward Full Audio of Trump’s phone call with Bob Woodward about the publication of Fear, August 14, 2018.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

When the Erie Canal opened in the 1820s, it brought with it an industrial system that radically transformed the daily lives of the American farmers who lived in the region. Out of this disruption came some of America’s earliest labor actions, the rise of new Christian sects, and America’s first daredevil, Sam Patch, who dazzled the masses and offended the powers that be simply by jumping off higher and higher things into water.   Why did Sam Patch become a national figure whose actions drew acclaim across the country? Why did those in power denounce Patch’s exhibitions as “irrational fun” and seek to stop him from performing? And how does Patch’s life tell the greater story of the Jacksonian Era and catch the attention of Jackson himself? The answers to all that and more are right here in Rivers Langley’s expertly crafted story, as told to Ben and Narado Moore.   Rivers Langley is a Los Angeles-based comic, host of The Goods from the Woods podcast, and a scriptwriter for The Dollop. Links to Ben’s appearances on TGFTW below.   Narado Moore is a Birmingham-based standup comic, host of the Uncle Rod’s Story Corner podcast and co-host of Roy’s Job Fair with Roy Wood Jr.   The story of Sam Patch, as told to Ben and Narado Moore was recorded in December, 2021 and originally aired as part of Goods From the Woods #310 “Sam Patch: America’s First Daredevil w/ Ben Sawyer & Narado Moore. This episode includes a new introduction/conversation with Rivers Langley about Patch’s place in history and how we can see his story in American life today. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.   Links:   “Confederate Submarine HL Hunley: A Terrible Idea w/ Ben Sawyer” from Goods From the Woods #203.   “The Destruction of the Georgia Guidestones w/ Ben Sawyer” clip from GFTW #337   “A Tour Guide’s History of Los Angeles w/ Rivers Langley” RTN #202 – Spotify - Apple

Patricia O’Toole’s The Moralist: Woodrow Wilson and the World He Made (Simon & Schuster, 2018) examines the life of a President whose policy was guided by his personal sense of morality. From today’s perspective, Woodrow Wilson’s time in the White House (1913-1921) seems full of contradictions. He supported a constitutional amendment to ensure women’s suffrage, but oversaw the re-segregation of America’s civil service. He championed national self-determination for the people of Europe, but readily deployed US soldiers to intervene in Latin America. And he won re-election with the slogan “He Kept Us Out Of War,” yet called for America’s entry into World War I just a little over a month after his second inauguration. In spite this, O’Toole says that a close examination of Wilson’s thought and policy reveals a consistent world view that binds these seemingly contradictory actions together.   Patricia O’Toole is the author of five books, including The Five of Hearts: An Intimate Portrait of Henry Adams (Simon & Schuster, 2006), which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. She previously taught in the School of the Arts at Columbia University was a fellow of the Society of American Historians.   This is a rebroadcast of RTN #93 which originally aired on April 30, 2018. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.