The Shift with Sam Baker

If you sometimes worry you’ve left it too late to follow your heart, today’s guest should give you hope. At 40, Jane Campbell got a divorce and took herself off to university where she trained as a group analyst. 40 years later, at the age of 80, she had her first short story was published, after she sent Cat Brushing to the London Review of Books on a whim. As a rule they don’t publish fiction, but less than three weeks later, they did just that.  Cat Brushing became the title of her debut short story collection - a short, sharp collection about the inner life of older women that I’ve read over and over again. The New York Times compared her to Edna Obrien and Muriel Spark. No biggie. Now Jane’s written a novel, Interpretations of Love which is, ultimately, about the things left unsaid and their lifelong implications. From her home in Oxfordshire, Jane told me why it’s so important to her to put the loves, lusts and losses of old women centre stage. We also discussed the impact of being a war baby and growing up with the belief that men were surplus to requirements, finding herself, a new life and a job she loved at 40 - and doing it again at 80. The lure of the solitary life and how she learnt to stop asking permission in midlife - and has never looked back. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Cat Brushing and Interpretations of Love by Jane Campbell and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you were a teenager in the late 80s you only have to hear the name Neneh Cherry to conjure the image of Neneh, seven months pregnant, on the Top of the Pops stage performing her hit Buffalo Stance. She was the epitome of cool. She made teenage girls everywhere believe that anything was possible. Now, almost 40 years later, the award-winning singer, songwriter, rapper, producer, mother of three, stepmother of one, grandmother of four, has lived - and continues to live - the most incredible life. She has released six critically acclaimed albums, won two Brits and been nominated for a Grammy.  And now she has written a memoir that takes us from her peripatetic childhood moving between Sweden and New York with her mother Swedish artist Moki Karlsson and her step-dad jazz trumpeter Don Cherry to the present day. It quite honestly blew me away. A Thousand Threads takes those strands and weaves them into a story of creativity and collaboration, love and loss, motherhood and daughterhood, and above all what it means to be a woman. I inhaled it. (And if you're in the market I highly recommend having Neneh read it to you on audible.) Neneh and I got on zoom to talk about home, family, losing her mother Moki at just 66 and losing herself to grief and menopause, finding pleasure in the little things, being a gran, staying creative forever and so so much more. TBH teenage Sam is beside herself right now. I hope you love this as much as I loved making it. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A THOUSAND THREADS BY NENEH CHERRY and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the fashion designer Bella Freud. Bella launched her eponymous label in 1990. Over thirty years later it remains resolutely independent, one of the very few that hasn’t been subsumed by a fashion conglomerate.  Bella’s clothes are for wearing and have become a byword for women who want to be glamorous but not girly with a bit of added wit. Her iconic word jumpers are one of the most covetable individual fashion items bar none. (As her instant-sell out collaboration with M&S proved.) Bella has always played with her heritage (her father, the artist Lucian Freud designed her famous dog logo and great-grandfather was Sigmund Freud, widely credited as the inventor of psycho analysis) and now she’s launched a podcast - Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud - where she literally puts celebrities on the couch to analyse their relationship with style. Eric Cantona, Zadie Smith and even Kate Moss have succumbed and, I have to say, it’s an eye-opener. I met Bella at home in North West London to talk about growing up outside convention and how she finally shook off her childhood coping mechanisms. We discussed the “wonderful feeling of progress” that’s come with ageing, what we can gain from unravelling life’s knots and the impact of losing both of her parents in one week. Bella also told me how her body image shaped her designs and how she’s learnt to appreciate her body as she’s aged. Fashion is a magic carpet, she says, and she’s the living proof. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who is credited with putting poetry back on the map, Donna Ashworth…. Donna came to prominence in 2020, when a poem she wrote about lockdown was read in a viral video to raise money for the NHS. She subsequently self-published her first volume of poetry, To The Women, which sold over 100,000 copies. Unsurprisingly the publishing industry came a-calling. Now The UK’s best selling poet, Donna has written eight books, including the bestsellers Wild Hope and I Wish I Knew and you’ll find them on the bedside tables of millions of women. Her latest, Growing Brave, a collection of words to soothe fear and let more life in, feels once again, perfectly pitched for the times we’re living through.  Donna joined me for what is probably the most emotionally intelligent conversation I’ve ever had here on The Shift. We talked about being dubbed “the difficult one” and how we grow into the labels we’re given, how to win the self-worth battle, the secret to being well-boundaried, why she doesn’t care for a “man-made” timeline and finding her calling in midlife. Also, I should warn you that Donna is incredibly generous and candid when it comes to talking about her experience of anorexia and how it feels to age with an eating disorder. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Growing Brave by Donna Ashworth and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is one incredible woman. Baroness Lola Young of Hornsey is an actress, academic, campaigner for social justice and a cross bench peer in the House of Lords. By anyone’s standards she has achieved.  She studied at the New College of Speech and Drama and started her career as an actress in the 1970s and 80s, before becoming professor of Cultural Studies at Middlesex University. In 2001 she received an OBE and became an independent peer in the house of lords in 2004, where she has actively campaigned against modern slavery and unethical fashion, amongst other things.  But before all that, from the age of just 8 weeks old, Lola moved between foster care placements and children’s homes. Then, at the age of 18, she was pushed off what she calls “the care cliff”. Now that childhood is the subject of Eight Weeks, her stunning memoir of a childhood in care and her journey to discovering her own story.  As she says herself, when people say “this is my friend Lola, she grew up in care, now she’s in the house of lords” it misses out rather a lot of steps on the way. Lola joined me to tell me how it felt to start trying to weave together the scattered parts of herself in her 50s and how growing up in care turned her into an activist. We also discussed everyday racism, what it’s really like being a Black woman in the House of Lords, her conflicted relationship with visibility and why somebody has to go first so it might as well be you.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Eight Weeks by Baroness Lola Young and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the forensic psychotherapist Dr Jennifer Cox. She trained at the Tavistock and now has an extensive practice specialising in treating women with undiagnosed anger. As part of this work she developed the Women are Mad approach to help women who can’t afford therapy to “think below the surface” about where their rage might be coming from. Sounds like it might be useful? I thought so, too. Jen is also the co host of the Women Are Mad podcast and has written a book called Women Are Angry which is very much what it says on the tin.  Her mission? To help us identify our rage and let it the hell out. Productively. Of course. Jen joined me for a fascinating conversation about the nature of female rage and why she thinks we’re seeing such a groundswell of fury now. We also discussed the impact of being a young carer, when and why we learn to “bitch”, why it’s easier to be a worried person than an angry one and the moment the anger penny dropped for her. CW: I should warn you that there’s passing discussion of suicidal ideation, eating disorders and depression Note: This was recorded before the November 5 election in the US. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Women are Angry by Jennifer Cox and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Louise Doughty, the woman behind some of the knottiest thrillers to grace our bookshelves and TV screens in recent years. Her bestseller, Apple Tree Yard about a sensible middle aged woman who makes a very unsensible decision (involving sex in the house of commons!) sold over half a million copies and was turned into a smash hit BBC series starring Emily Watson. She was also the brains behind the breathtaking BBC drama Crossfire that starred Keeley Hawes.  Of course What you don’t hear, is that Apple Tree Yard was Louise’s 7th novel, catapulting her to “the big time” at the age of 50. Her latest book, A Bird In Winter, looks set to continue that trajectory. Think The 39 steps if the lead was an extremely resourceful 50something woman on the run. Louise joined me to talk about how her “overnight” success at 50” transformed her life (mainly she finally started a pension!) And why it’s still considered controversial when middle aged women have sex! We also discussed surviving the menopause-puberty collision, the unrealised fury - and potential - of the middle aged woman and the power and importance of realising you’re not for everyone. And that’s fine. Note: apologies for the occasionally disrupted sound quality at the start of this episode. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A Bird in Winter by Louise Doughty and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s guest is a personal favourite. I first met Kate Weinberg (the bestselling author of The Truants) when I was stricken with long covid and a mutual friend put us in touch. “You need to talk to Kate,” she urged. “She’ll be able to help. Kate was able to help - and did. Thanks in large part to her I went from feeling like my old, functioning life had gone forever, to regaining more than a semblance of normal. Whatever that is. Because Kate is not only one of the first people to experience and long covid, she is also an immensely kind and generous woman.  That experience - of living an illness that doctors dismissed as “all in her head” - led to her new novel, There’s Nothing Wrong With Her - a comi-tragic story about mental health, the way women’s illness is dismissed, living up to early midlife expectation and surviving modern life. It also stars a goldfish called Whitney Houston! I went to Kate’s envy-inducing north London house to talk about running away fantasies, the impact of losing her mum at 3 and how she’s spent her life assembling a patchwork of mothers, her career finally waking up in her 40s, going on HRT in her 30s, embracing crone energy and, yes, the impact of living with an illness you’re told is “all in your head”. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including There's Nothing Wrong With her by Kate Weinberg and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the broadcaster Vanessa Feltz. Ever since the mid-90s, Vanessa has been a fixture on British TV and radio - and also, for better or worse, our front pages. She became known as the “British Oprah” and that applied not just to her consummate skills as a broadcaster and talent for saying the unsayable, but also what she describes as her “pernicious public cycle of yoyo dieting.” She cut her teeth on This Morning, interviewed stars on the Big Breakfast Bed and hosted her own hit show Vanessa, the first British US-style talk show. She’s also presented BBC Radio 2’s Early Breakfast Show and BBC London’s Breakfast show and now hosts a Saturday show on LBC.  But like many women in the public eye, her professional achievements have often played second fiddle to media scrutiny of her private life. Vanessa joined me to talk about finally baring it all in the frank, funny, fearless autobiography she said she’d never write, Vanessa Bares All. We also discussed growing up with a chorus of critics and dealing with the toxic media attention paid to her weight. Plus divorce, being back in the dating game at 62, why she wishes she’d been able to take Ozempic, finally losing her inhibitions and why she’d really like a great big love. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Vanessa Bares All by Vanessa Feltz and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today knows a thing or two about being single, and she’s hear to tell you that there’s more than one way to live an emotionally fulfilling life.  Marianne Power is a journalist who made a perfectly decent living testing things so you didn’t have to - mascara, spa retreats, you get the gist - until the decision to spend a year testing self help books changed her life in ways she’d never expected. The resulting book, Help me! Has since sold hundreds of thousands of copies, been translated into 25 languages and been optioned for TV. Clearly something about her funny, candid, vulnerable approach struck a chord. But as she turned 40, Marianne still had questions. Namely, why were all her friends merrily ticking boxes on the life to-do list and she wasn’t… love eluded her, so she decided to try the same approach. In Love me! She looks at society’s obsession with marriage, kids and domesticity and whether you can love and be loved without them. I met Marianne in London to talk about rewriting the stories we tell ourselves about love and sex and why there’s more than one soulmate for everyone (and, no,) they don’t have to be sexual. We also talked anxiety, growing up ginger, being childfree by choice, tantra and, the kicker, why sex is not a reward for being young and hot.  Find out more about Jan Day's tantra workshops at https://www.janday.com/ * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Love Me! by Marianne Power and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is author, endurance athlete and ex BBC breakfast presenter Louise Minchin. Louise is, of course, best known for her twenty year stint on BBC Breakfast’s sofa but she has also been main news anchor on the BBC News, presented The One Show and participated in a host of reality TV shows including I’m a Celebrity get me out of here. Since leaving the sofa, she has chaired the Women’s Prize for Fiction, honed her skills as an endurance athlete (she qualified for the Great Britain Age-Group Triathlon Team in 2015 for the World Triathlon Championships in Chicago, and completed the Norseman triathlon - she doesn’t do things by halves!) and turned her hand to writing. Louise’s latest book is a heartstopping thriller called Isolation Island, which takes ten celebrities and dumps them in a derelict monastery on a remote scottish island. Think I’m A Celebrity meets Traitors with a splash of Big Brother and you’re halfway there! Louise joined me to talk about the importance of putting women of all ages centre stage and how she built a new career off the breakfast TV sofa. We also discussed how perimenopause robbed her of herself, the power of adventure, how she learnt to love her body for what it can do not how it looks and why she wants to encourage more women to take a risk in midlife. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Isolation Island by Louise Minchin and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s guest is the American actress, writer and singer Moon Unit Zappa. Moon shot to fame in her early teens when her vocals featured on her father Frank Zappa’s unlikely hit Valley Girl. Subsequently she has been an actor, singer, presenter and artist. I’m about a year older than her and I know I’ve pretty much been aware of her ever since But she was never quite able to step out of the shadow of her “music genius” father Frank and mother Gail. The eldest of four siblings, Moon says, she was basically an adult by the time she was 5. Now aged 57, Moon has written Earth to Moon, a funny, self-deprecating and candid memoir that attempts to bring perspective to a life lived in the glare of celebrity, creativity, genius and narcissism. It’s just begging to be turned into a TV series. If you, like me, grew up with a reassuringly boring small town childhood, you might look at Moon’s life with a pang envy. Moon is here to set you right! Moon joined me from her home in LA to talk about the lifelong impact of growing up in a household that revolves around a “genius” and with a mother who’s the ultimate unreliable narrator. We also discussed eldest daughter syndrome, the nepo baby dilemma, how she learnt to make herself central to her own life, the curse of dating both versions of your parents and why she thinks hot flashes are hilarious.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Earth to Moon by Moon Unit Zappa and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who has truly come into her own in middle-age. A broadcaster, engineer, statistician and entrepreneur, at the age of 63 Carol Vorderman is now best known for fearlessly calling power to account.  Sick of the sleaze and corruption she saw emanating from our politicians she decided it was time to speak up.  And her million twitter followers and listeners to her LBC show listened. Why? Because she’s one of us. An ordinary kid from a working class background, brought up by a single mum in North Wales. Carol is also a patron of Menopause Mandate, has been named one of the 25 most influential women by Vogue, and she’s got an MBE. You get the picture.  Now she’s written a book, Now What? A book about politics for people who think politics isn’t for them. Carol joined me to talk candidly about menopause and gaining her voice at 60, The lifelong impact of being a free school meals kid, The importance of financial independence and Why she won’t be cowed by bullies and trolls. She also gives us a useful lesson in how to spot a narcissist. Carol vorderman is living life without apology. And I’m here for it. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Now What? by Carol Vorderman and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Bella Mackie. Until her mid-30s Bella was a journalist, then she wrote a book called Jog On and her trajectory changed - dramatically. Ostensibly a book about running, Jog On was actually a soul-baring account of Bella’s battle with anxiety, OCD and depression and how, ultimately, running saved her. It was one of a wave of books that blended memoir with motivation and was a big and unexpected hit. Then, a couple of years ago she wrote the brilliantly titled How To Kill Your Family. TikTok fell on it. Cue 47 weeks in the top 10 and a Netflix series. Not jealous at all.  Now she’s back with the equally twisted What A Way To Go. In which more highly unlikeable people get their comeuppance. Well, some of them. Truly Bella can come up with ways to kill a loved one you hadn’t even dreamed of! Bella joined me to talk about being child-free and building your own roadmap to ageing without kids in the equation. We also discussed her childhood obsession with true crime, how there’s not a top trumps of mental health and why she still has a long way to go to fight her way out of the good girl box. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including What A Way To Go by Bella Mackie and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the award-winning… well what is she? Writer? Content creator? Blogger? Influencer? Ruth Crilly is all of the above. She started her blog A Model Recommends in 2010 - before it was really a thing - and became one of the UK’s first social media stars. She’s got 500k followers on YouTube and instagram and unbelievably she’s - gulp - over 40! I know. Ancient! And before all that, Ruth was a successful model and it’s that experience that forms the basis of her first book How Not To Be A Supermodel. This isn’t a grim story of abuse at the hands of a brutal industry, although it’s no walk in the park. Instead, Ruth somehow manages to find humour in the endless humiliations and inhumanities models are subjected to - being not tall enough, not cool enough, not thin enough to make it to supermodel stardom. Ruth joined me to talk to about being reduced to your looks when looks were never your currency, why there are two Ruths in her life (and one of them has to go!), why she wishes she’d known how perfect she was when she was 20, the trouble with social media and why she’s too lazy, too tight and too chicken to tweak! And while she’s at it she flogs me a beauty gadget to lift my face! * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including How Not To Be A Supermodel by Ruth Crilly and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the creator of the global bestseller and smash hit TV adaptation, The Discovery of Witches, Deborah Harkness. Now, I’m not sure if you know this about me, but I’m a bit obsessed with all things witchy, and I’ve been a devotee ever since the proof of the first book landed on my desk and I tumbled headlong into the world of Diana Bishop. Can you say, ob-sessed? But before all this Deborah was a scholar. A historian who teaches the history of science at the University of Southern California, she is an authority on alchemical manuscripts and for her doctorate researched the history of magic and science in Europe between 1500 and 1700. Sound familiar?  There’s more, just a couple of years ago Deborah discovered she was descended from not one, but two of the Salem women. Deborah joined me to talk about the latest book in the All Souls series - The Black Bird Oracle - which takes us to Salem and the descendants of the witch trials. We discussed also her life changing cancer diagnosis, why women’s pain is endlessly ignored, why she won’t be blunting her sharp pointy edges for anyone and why she loves being the crone of dark academia.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Blackbird Oracle by Deborah Harkness and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s guest is the queen of embracing the second chapter. Fearne Cotton started young. She became a children’s TV presenter at 15, presented Top of The Pops at 19 and took over Jo Whiley’s mid morning show on Radio One at just 27. But it’s what she’s achieved since turning her back on live radio and TV that’s really remarkable. In 2018 she launched Happy Place podcast, which has since amassed over 50 million downloads and expanded into a festival, bookclub, app and publishing imprint. As an author herself Fearne has written several books including the Sunday Times bestsellers Happy and Bigger Than Us.  But when people talk about Fearne they still describe her first and foremost as a broadcaster - instead of what she is: a highly successful and intuitive businesswoman who has curated an entire career, business and brand around her personal passions. Now she’s turned her hand to fiction, with Scripted, in which a chronic people pleaser learns how to say no. Frankly I can think of a few people (including yours truly) who could take a lesson or two… Fearne joined me to talk about how she finally found her balance in mid-life. We also discussed why being a step parent needs a rebrand, learning not to be a little bitch to yourself, respecting your energy levels as much as your bank balance. And why she love love love love loves being in her 40s. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Scripted by Fearne Cotton and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have known today’s guest for quite some time. Decades in fact. To begin with she didn’t really know me, because she was close friends with my first ever boss. During the time I sat on the sidelines of Lindsay Nicholson’s life, the unimaginable happened and her husband and then daughter both died of a rare form of leukaemia. Then she picked herself and her younger daughter, Hope, up from the ashes and rebuilt their lives. Already a successful editor she became editor of Good Housekeeping where she stayed for 18 years, winning countless awards. As if she hadn’t had more than her fair share of shit already, Lindsay then was diagnosed with breast cancer. She has now been in remission for 17 years. Then I left magazines and our ways parted. But a couple of years later I started to hear rumours - her second marriage (to a man who, from the outside, looked like some kind of knight in shining Armani) had fallen apart, magazines were in trouble and the company we had both worked for dispensed with their experienced talented (for which read expensive) editors. Including her, their most senior and decorated. That would be more than enough. But that wasn’t even the half of it. Now Lindsay has written a heart rending memoir, Perfect Bound about the car crash that triggered a crisis and losing it all for a second time. Her obsessive pursuit of perfection. And how she found it in herself to recover. Again.  CONTENT WARNING: Before we leap in, I have to be honest, this episode is A LOT; a lot of everything. And I do mean everything. A lot of joy, a lot of pain, (including suicidal ideation.) you name it Lindsay has been through it, so if you’re feeling fragile proceed with caution and tissues. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Perfect Bound by Lindsay Nicholson and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If there’s anything more daunting than interviewing a professional interviewer it’s interviewing an award-winning professional interviewer. Today’s guest Taffy Brodesser-Akner is a staff-writer on the New York Times and a legend amongst journalists who often find themselves on the monosyllabic side of a celebrity. (Her interview with Bradley Cooper refusing to be interviewed for is a masterclass.) Her debut novel Fleishman is in Trouble was a New York Times and Sunday Times bestseller and then, never having written a screenplay before, she adapted it into a hit miniseries, starring Claire Danes, for which she won an Emmy. I mean. Her new novel, Long Island Compromise, has just been bought by Apple TV and looks set to go the same way. It follows four decades in the life of a wealthy Jewish Long Island family whose patriarch is kidnapped in 1980. The fall out is the story. Wealth class privilege trauma BDSM and controlling mothers abound. I met Taffy in her publisher’s office when she was visiting London to talk about her joy of turning 40 and realising the thing she’d been taught her whole life to be afraid of (middle age) was actually her ticket to freedom, the mystifying effect of money, the unlikely promise she made her mum and why her superpower is spotting a nose job. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I can’t be cool about today’s guest, so I’m not even going to try. Ever since I started The Shift I have had a Wishlist and high up on it from day one was Dame Zandra Rhodes. Yes, that Zandra Rhodes. There can only be one after all. For over 50 years, Zandra has been a leading figure in the British fashion industry, renowned for her prints and her use of colour. Over the years she has dressed everyone from Princesses Diana to Freddie Mercury, Diana Ross and Debbie Harry, and collaborated with everyone from M&S to Ikea. Zandra is nothing if not egalitarian. Now 83 (and in remission from the terminal cancer she was diagnosed with at the start of covid), she has no plans to stop any time soon, as evidenced by her new book Iconic, My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects, a whistle-stop tour through her incredible life hanging out with ossie clark, lunching with Truman Capote, making a lifelong friend of legendary vogue editor Diana Vreeland. Which is how I get to be on my way to Bermondsey to hang out at her fabulous flat to talk about her equally fabulous life. I know! Zandra and I sat down with a cuppa to discuss how a “boring little girl” became synonymous with big, bold, uncompromising style, her lifelong workaholism, living a child-free life, using clothes as armour and the rejection that was the making of her...  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Iconic: My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects by Zandra Rhodes and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices