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The Social-Engineer Podcast
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The Social-Engineer Podcast

Author: Social-Engineer, LLC

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The Social-Engineer Podcast is about humans. Understanding how we interact, communicate and relay information can help us protect, mitigate and understand social engineering attacks
125 Episodes
In Episode 125, host Chris Hadnagy speaks with William Ortiz, a federal polygraph examiner who worked in the FBI for decades. In this discussion, you’ll learn how the polygraph works, how people try to fool the polygraph, and what agents and attorneys are really after when they receive the results of a polygraph examination. You’ll also hear some tips and tricks about deception that can inform your everyday interactions. 3 Key Points:   Polygraph is a tool alongside non-verbals and behavior analysis questions to determine whether someone is telling the truth.    Being nervous is part of taking the polygraph test. Being nervous will not affect the test, but helps to establish your baseline.  3.   When you ask someone a question, pay attention to whether they answer it. Then ask more questions to see where they lead.
Welcome to another episode of The Social-Engineer Podcast! Host, Christopher Hadnagy, interviews Christopher Dwyer, on this 124th episode. Dr. Dwyer is a psychologist who has been researching critical thinking and cognitive energy throughout his career, including what it means to be a critical thinker. He started his PhD by researching argument mapping, focusing on the structure of arguments and the effect of it on memory performance. Chris asks Dr. Dwyer how he would define critical thinking. For Dr. Dwyer, the term refers to purposeful, self-regulatory reflective judgment reliant on a number of skills in order to produce a valid conclusion to an argument or a solution to a problem. Dr. Dwyer explains how the term has come to have different meanings across the industry - but the main idea has been that core skills and core dispositions make up critical thinking. Dr. Dwyer is interested in how to enhance people’s critical thinking skills; however, he has found that it is very dependent on context and circumstances. He shares an example of this, comparing findings about critical thinking of traditional students and adult-learning course students. The mature students had worse critical thinking at the beginning of a class yet they improved more than traditional students over time. Towards the end of the episode, Chris and Dr. Dwyer discuss how humans hate to be wrong, but love to be right. Dr. Dwyer says that this is due to risk aversion - we do not enjoy the things that are detrimental to us and we fear being found wanting. However, it is important to not let our fear stop us from critically thinking well.
On this episode of The Social-Engineer Podcast, host Chris sits down with Dr. Eva Krackow to discuss decision-making. Eva is an assistant professor in psychology at the University of Leicester, and focuses her research on judgement and decision-making, as well as how people can improve their daily choices for the better. Similarly, The Social-Engineer focuses on the end user, and how their decisions affect their online security. Eva talks about a game that was developed to research the difference in an individual’s behavior based on the motive of the game, being teamwork, or a competition, and how subtle framing can influence an individual’s behavior. Framing is a way to present an idea or concept to an individual to achieve desired results. Chris and Eva discuss the parallels between online security, The Social-Engineer’s line of business, and an individual’s choice to lean towards a way of “framing” that appeals to them. In terms of phishing scams, where once there were emails riddled with errors, scams have become more intelligent, getting email correspondence to appear more legitimate. Framing of the message has become more professional and sophisticated. The framing of the emails has changed in a way to adapt to the individual reading the scam, allowing the scammer to continue to be successful in stealing identities and information. Eva discusses issues that come along with our current age of social media, and how individuals are less likely to explore unfamiliar information because of the algorithms that these popular networking sites use to appease each individual user. Social media websites aren’t necessarily our friend when it comes to actual facts and accurate information, but it is coincidentally where most people are finding their news sources. She suggests we need to consistently look outside of our usual media sources, outside of our current friends list, and be aware of the information we’re absorbing. When we don’t take these initiatives on our own, we can find ourselves taking in a never ending supply of information that appeals specifically to us, making it easier to believe the news we take in to be fact, when many times, it’s not. Reframing our communication allows us to be more open to new information that we may not have been before, it can open doors we weren’t aware existed when we’re able to step outside of our comfort zone. Listen to more episodes and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts! Links: Find more of Dr. Eva Krackow’s articles at Find more information about The Social-Engineer at: Follow The Social-Engineer Podcast on Twitter (@humanhacker), YouTube, and LinkedIn Eva's Book Recommendations: Trevor Noah - Born a Crime
Chris Hadnagy interviews Anne-Maartje Oud, chairperson and owner of The Behaviour Company, about how she found the inspiration and drive to kick start her own company dedicated to research about human behavior, how she deals with common behavioral problems, some insights on her cultural background and its impact on her career and the people around her. On This Episode We Discuss: 00:00 - 122nd Episode of the Social-Engineer Podcast! 03:50 - Quick recap about Anne-Maartje Oud 04:30 - Anne talks about the early years of her career, how she found the inspiration and drive to start her own company focused on research into human behavior 08:33 - Anne talks about her study and research on human behavior, how she teach people 10:16 - How she help people become aware of their bad behavior 13:59 - Anne talks about the common problems she usually encounter 19:25 - Her advice on meeting new people, going through job interviews and how to behave right in these situations 21:45 - Her cultural background and its impact on her career and the people around her; and how to fit in with people from various cultures 45:33 - Closing remarks for Anne (links to her company website, social media accounts, books she recommends) 46:16 - Desmon Morris’ book “People Watching”   48:58 - A brief interview with Dov Baron 49-57 - Who is Dov Baron? 51:26 - Dov shares what he’ll talk about in the coming 2020 Social-Engineer conference 55:00 - Dov talks about leadership 57:56 - Closing remarks for Dov (Links to his company website, his social media accounts)  Books to Read:  What Every Body is Saying - Joe Navarro People Watching - Desmond Morris  Featured Links:  Connect with Anne-Maartje Oud:  LinkedIn Twitter Instagram  Connect with Dov Baron: LinkedIn Twitter Instagram Facebook  Listen & Subscribe: The Social-Engineer Podcast The Social Engineer on Apple Podcasts The Social Engineer on Spotify  Thanks for listening! Follow and tweet @SocEngineerInc. Find us on Facebook and, if you like what you hear, do us a favor and write a review on iTunes.
On This Episode We Discuss: 0:27 - Introducing the guest - Joe Navarro 1:35 - Joe Navarro’s background and expertise 3:06 - The 13 books Joe has written 3:36 - Why do we do anything? 3:58 - The next project Joe is working on related to what makes good leadership 5:44 - SEVillage Orlando 2020 preview and what Joe’s talk will be about 8:35 - How Joe’s career path lead him into leadership and writing books 11:08 - Joe coming to the country, not knowing any English, and how this shaped his reliance on non-verbals 13:00 - The leadership most of us will encounter and how personal this typically is 14:26 - The most important attribute any leader must have 15:27 - What do you think makes a great employee for your company? 17:19 - Joe’s experience working with Robin Dreeke 18:13 - Joe’s story of getting a text from someone he put in prison 21:00 - The importance of treating people humanely 21:58 - Joe’s experience in Puerto Rico with people telling him when something wasn’t right 23:18 - What’s coming up in the upcoming months for Social-Engineering 25:40 - Understanding how you can improve (And why you need to be open to it) 26:41 - Who the best investigator typically is 27:38 - Ego and how it can harm you 28:27 - What Joe would ask himself before doing an interview 30:27 - Putting the right people in the right situations to be most effective 31:32 - Joe’s experience in New York trying to recruit someone  32:43 - How to determine what type of person is the best in any situation 33:30 - Interethnic empathy 35:12 - The reasons why operations sometimes fail 36:32 - Why “face time” is so important and really the key to everything 37:11 - A few things you can do to increase face time 40:15 - Where people can go to learn more about Joe 42:05 - Joe’s book recommendation   Connect with Joe Navarro Joe’s Website Facebook Twitter Joe’s Amazon Author Page   Links: Joe Navarro SEVillage Orlando 2020 Episode 14 – I S.E.e What You Are Thinking Ep. 112 – Catching Spies and Paying Parking Tickets with Joe Navarro The Behavioral Analysis Program The Like Switch: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Influencing, Attracting, and Winning People Over by Jack Schafer Advanced Interviewing Techniques: Proven Strategies for Law Enforcement, Military, and Security Personnel by Joe Navarro Steve Ross (Literary agent) Robin Dreeke Three Minutes to Doomsday by Joe Navarro How China Uses LinkedIn to Recruit Spies Abroad The Gift of Fear : Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin De Becker  
On This Episode We Discuss: 0:00 - 10th year anniversary podcast! 2:38 - Robin’s book Sizing People Up 3:43 - Why trust is ultimately what matters 5:33 - Perry’s speech at SEVillage 7:45 - Changing the context of how you view your situation (And the world) 10:35 - How you choose who to engage when speaking to an audience 11:10 - Stage hypnosis 13:15 - Why you need to make every statement about the other person 14:50 - Why we always act in our best interest and understanding what that means for others 17:28 - How you can use social engineering in real-life social situations (And how to mitigate manipulation) 22:44 - The differences between the alcohol, tobacco, and firearms industries  27:25 - The most effect technique for listening 28:08 - The Black Badge Contest winners  29:05 - How the Black Badge works and why it’s so high pressure 30:03 - Techniques for building rapport 33:17 - Having so many people fill the room at DEF CON 36:22 - Protecting data and how changing culture has to start from the top 41:10 - Career prospects and how to find the right company to work for 44:38 - The value of writing to build credibility and get more clients  46:55 - Phishing education and incentivizing positive action 49:45 - Taking time to figure out people’s strengths and top 3 priorities of people you’re working with 50:45 - Why loving your product, believing in what you’re selling, and knowing it will help people is crucial to selling a product 54:32 - Dealing with fatigue while vishing (And taking breaks) 58:04 - What makes a great social-engineer 1:00:00 - Perry’s Book 1:03:37 - A technique for catching 3 spies (Coming soon)  Connect with Them Robin Dreeke on LinkedIn Robin Dreeke on Twitter Perry Carpenter on LinkedIn Perry Carpenter on Twitter  Links: Sizing People Up (Book)  Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors (Book) The Code of Trust (Book) KnowBe4 (Perrys Company) People Formula (Robin’s Company) Episode 99 Episode 78 Episode 42 Episode 20 Joe Navarro DEF CON SEVillage Orlando 2020 Stephanie Paul  Amanda Berlin
Bio: On This Episode We Discuss: Who Stephanie is and what she does How Stephanie produced, cast, and directed the launch of the Calvin Klein CK1 Fragrance in New Zealand at age 21 Stephanie’s acting role in the film Iron Sky How Stephanie started her company by accident The psychology tool “Stimulus Value” and the importance of understanding it The top traits we look for when communicating with other people The importance of knowing WHY we’re delivering a message and delivering it in a way that’s beneficial to your audience How Stephanie develops stories with her clients and teaches them how to use their emotions as tools Emotional intelligence Why laughter is the most contagious biological behavior we have Laughter yoga Stephanie’s workshop in February of 2020 and why you NEED to come A few books Stephanie recommends  
Dr. Jessica Barker runs a cyber security consultancy and, with a background in sociology, specializes in the human side of cyber security. She is especially interested in attitudes and behaviors in relation to cyber security, and her work is focused on communication, awareness, behavior and culture. On this episode we discuss things like: How can we make info sec more human centric? Why are we failing so much? Should shame and fear be used in training? And so much more.  
Chris Voss is an author, and professor. His is also a former FBI hostage negotiator, the CEO of The Black Swan Group Ltd, and co-author of the book, Never Split the Difference. Chris discusses: What are negotiation skills? How are they useful in every day life What is tactical empathy What is a black swan? Can you really use these skills to save lives? So much more!!   Chris can be found on his website: and you can also find him on Twitter at: He recommended a few books for us this month: The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance by Steven Kotler The Talent Code: Greatness Isn't Born. It's Grown. Here's How. by Daniel Coyle The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups by Daniel Coyle
Gregg Henriques is a psychologist and professor with expertise in depression, suicide and personality disorders. He developed a new theoretical system for psychology and joins us today to share it with us. As we discuss his theory we will talk about: His new theory of psychology The 4 interlocking peices and how we can apply them in every day life How to build a C.A.L.M Narrator So much more....   You can find out more about Gregg on his website: as well as his articles on Psychology Today   Gregg recommends we read: The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion: Freeing Yourself from Destructive Thoughts and Emotions by Christopher K. Germer
Chase Hughes is an ex-military Chief that wanted to learn how to better the study of influence. He wanted to see if he could teach anyone to use these skills fast and with precision.  Join us this month as we discuss this very topic with Chase and try to answer: Can we train people in influence like we train animals? Can we control our own minds to condition ourselves to not be influenced? Can we change how we react to fear, anger or other emotions? So much more... You can follow Chase on his Twitter account: Check out Chase's book. The Ellipsis Manual  and also his book recommendation, Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan
Whitney Merrill is a privacy attorney, worked with the EFF and runs the Crypto and runs the Crypto Privacy Village at DEF CON. (See a pattern yet?) This month we have a very fun and lighthearted chat with Whitney about things like: Is it possible to remain private today? Is it possible to be safe and date online? How dangerous is OSINT? And so much more   You can find out more about Whitney on her website: She recommends the book "How To Make a Spaceship" by Julian Guthrie
 Join us with our guest Clint Watts as we ask questions about: Misinformation campaigns and their success. How is misinformation used? Why is it so powerful? How can we be safe from falling victim? So much more Clint can be followed on his Twitter Account @selectedwisdom  and on Clint also recommends these books: Identity: The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment Francis Fukuyama  The Fifth Risk Michael Lewis  American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America 
Joe Navarro immigrated to American not knowing any English. How did this mold and shape him to become one of the most well known FBI agents and now one of the world's leading expert's in body language? Join us in this discussion to find out: Why did he write this book? We will see more of him before another 8 years? How has nonverbal reading changed his life? Can you really learn these skills? Did Cat's youth really make her doubt Joe's stories? And so much more.... You can find more information about Joe's classes and books at his website Joe's new book The Dictionary of Body Language and Joe's book recommendations are: The Biological Mind by Alan Jasanoff Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past by David Reich Till next time!
Did you know that Walmart sells smoothies? Well we didn't either (and we still don't think they do), but this smooth talking Brit will have all of you driving to your local walmart ordering a Crypto AI Blockchain smoothie from Walmart before you are done listening. Nick Furneaux, lord of all OSINT and new author about crypto currency sheds light on exactly how crypto and social engineering collide. This is one podcast you will certainly enjoy, whilst laughing all the way to smoothie land. Find out more about Nicks Classes and training and book at his website  Follow him on twitter at nickfx And pick up Nick's recommended book, Endurance by Scott Kelly
                  So many times we get asked how can you become a professional social engineer.  This month we talk to two amazing women who were never in the industry, took a huge risk and it paid off.  Join us in this fascinating conversation with Whitney Maxwell and Rachel Tobac. These two wonderful personify doing things ethically, honestly and with empathy.  They are an amazing example to our community and we had a great opportunity to talk about: How did you get into the SECTF? How did winning change your life? Did you get into SE because of it? Does Whitney really have relatives with everyone's name? Why is Rachel so scary? So much more.....   Whitney Maxwell can be found on Twitter at and her book recommendations are: The Harry Potter Series The Midnight Line - A Jack Reacher Novel Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High by McGraw-Hill Education Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach Everything That Rises Must Converge: Stories (FSG Classics) Paperback – by Flannery O'Connor   Rachel Tobac can be found on Twitter at and her book recommendations are: Influence by Robert Cialdini Bossy Pants by Tina Fey As well as recommending two other podcasts: Masters of Scale by Reed Hoffman & How I Built This - Guy Raz
I sense there is something important in your life? Something that you will be listening to shortly that will change the way you view... everything.  Ian Rowland is a renowned expert into cold reading. In his book, "The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading", Ian explains exactly how cold reading works. Despite being told exactly how this trickery works, notice how he still reads Cat during our podcast. We discuss: Do you know any Jennifer's? How does cold reading work? What application does Cold Reading have to social engineering? So much more... Check out Ian on his website: or his Twitter account: Ian recommended a book for us this month: Dale Carnegie,  How to Win Friends & Influence People
 It might not come as a shock to you that we here at SEORG love Neil Fallon and Clutch. Having Neil out at DEF CON was an amazing experience.  After 4 long days at DEF CON we hosted our annual live podcast for Episode 108. Join us as: Neil fixes Chris' technical issues. We discuss ways to improve the SEVillage We talk about professional SE work  and we suffer through our final sleep deprived moments in Vegas.... You can follow Neil on Twitter at: @npfallon Check out Chris' latest book: Social Engineering: The SCIENCE of Human Hacking
Paolo Gaudiano has more than 25 years of interdisciplinary research, teaching, entrepreneurship, consulting, public speaking and writing experience. He recently embarked on a mission to use everything he has learned to revolutionize the way people think about Diversity & Inclusion, and what they do about it.  Today we discuss: What are biases How are they used? Are they positive or negative? How can a social engineer use biases? You can follow Paolo on his twitter account: or his company Aleria PBC Paolo recommended a few books this month: The Diversity Advantage: Fixing Gender Inequality In The Workplace by Ruchika Tulshyan The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas  When Affirmative Action Was White: An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth-Century America by Ira Katznelson 
Amy E. Herman is the founder and president of The Art of Perception, Inc., a New York-based organization that conducts professional development courses to leaders around the world including at the FBI, CIA, Scotland Yard, and the Peace Corps. Herman was also the Director of Educational Development at Thirteen/WNET, the educational public television station serving New York and New Jersey, and the Head of Education at The Frick Collection for over ten years, where she oversaw all of the Collection's educational collaborations and community initiatives. Join us as we have a fascinating conversation with Amy about: Biases - are they useful? How can we recognize biases and they use them? What does it mean to be the dog? What does it mean to be the wolf? Can you ride a dolphin, wolf hybrid through the ocean? so much more... Amy can be found on her website: or on Twitter at @AmyHermanAOP  She recommends a book by Daniel James Brown titled, The Boy in the Boat
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