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The Third Wave

Author: Paul Austin

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The Third Wave Podcast explores the many minds of the emerging psychedelic renaissance. Through conversations with thought leaders across various disciplines, we explore how psychedelics, when used with intention and responsibility, catalyze transformation on both an individual and collective level.

Are you a newbie fresh off an incredible first psychedelic experience? An experienced psychonaut with decades of use? Or just an interested bystander, curious about the relevance of psychedelics to health and wellness?

Regardless of your why, our podcast gives you a unique look into how psychedelic substances change culture and society for the better.
124 Episodes
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After a successful career in entrepreneurship and cryptocurrency, Ryan Zurrer turned his attention to the burgeoning psychedelic space. As he continued to learn more via research, attending conferences, and speaking with others, he became concerned about what he considers the “dystopian future” of psychedelic therapies - sterile doctors’ offices, $8000 treatments, synthetic drugs, no community or connection. Determined to help others harness the powerful benefits of plant medicines in traditional settings, he started Vine Ventures, a VC fund focusing on a future in which everyone who wants to access a psychedelic experience can do so safely, legally, and affordably. In this episode, Ryan and Paul discuss the importance of accessibility, Ryan’s criteria for investment, and the differences between a centralized and decentralized approach to therapy and legalization.
When Lynn Marie Morski, M.D., was first introduced to psychedelics at age 35, she had the kind of transformative experience that she knew would greatly help her patients at the VA. But with no legal way to recommend plant medicines, she decided to turn her attention to educating doctors about the benefits of psychedelics. Unsure of where her new venture would take her, Lynn Marie quit her job, started the Plant Medicine podcast, and created the Psychedelic Medicine Association. In this episode, Lynn Marie and Paul discuss bridging the gap between medical practitioners and the advances taking place in the psychedelic research world.
Psychoanalyst, executive coach, author, and Harvard-trained philosopher Peter Carnochan, Ph.D., has spent the last 30 years helping clients unknot problematic feelings, solve challenges, and develop more resilient and expansive modes of living. In this episode, Peter talks with Paul about the many ways philosophy and psychedelic experiences complement each other, the interconnectedness of everything in the universe, the freedom found within boundaries, and the power we have to change our own lives.
When it comes to contemplative practices, concepts of eternity, and mystical experiences, there are many similarities between ancient traditions and contemporary religions. Could psychedelics be one of those connections? In this episode, Paul Austin talks with Brian Muraresku, author of The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name, about tens of thousands of years of mysticism, the evidence for ancient use of psychedelics in religious ceremony, and the democratization of plant medicine.
One of the leading advocates in the kratom industry, Mac Haddow spent years working in US government relations, including acting as Chief of Staff at the US Department of Health and Human Services. Today, he is working tirelessly to protect the rights of kratom users and vendors, traveling throughout the US to promote nationwide adoption of the Kratom Consumer Protection Act. In this episode, Mac and Paul discuss the responsible use of kratom—its benefits, risks, and concerns—and also touch on the topic of corruption within the FDA regulatory and approval process.
There’s a growing momentum to legalize therapeutic psychedelics in the United States, with clinics nationwide already offering ketamine therapy, as well as the recent decriminalization of psilocybin in Oregon. What do today’s treatment protocols look like, and what will the future bring? In this episode, Yaron Conforti, CEO and Director of Novamind, talks with Paul Austin, founder of Third Wave, about creating individualized treatment plans, the thousands of clinics we can expect in the next ten years, and democratizing access to psychedelic medicine.
After building and selling a successful software startup, Tim Sae Koo had a psychedelic experience and vision that revealed his true life’s purpose. Today, he devotes himself to 1heart, a home for change makers, creative innovators, and soul seekers who feel called to co-create a collective future as one tribe. In this episode, Tim and Paul reflect on their friendship, and discuss elevating consciousness, building community, and staying out of the matrix.
James Fadiman Ph.D. almost needs no introduction. An early pioneer of psychedelic research, a lifelong proponent of microdosing, and a prolific writer and educator, Jim played a pivotal role in reigniting the conversation around psychedelics in the US and beyond with the publication of his 2011 book, The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide. In this wide-ranging podcast, Jim chats candidly with Paul Austin about everything from the early years of psychedelic research and the immeasurable benefits of microdosing, to the business of psychedelics, the power of citizen science, and the foundation of our personal identities.
Dr. Katherine Coder was on her way to a career on Wall Street when a psychedelic experience changed the course of her life. Now a counselor and coach, her mission is to help her clients reclaim their birthright and unfold their essential nature into the world. In this episode, Kat and Paul discuss the power of community, connecting to spirit, and pharmaceutical vs. shamanic approaches to healing through plant medicine.
Amanda Eilian has been actively investing in early stage consumer companies for the last decade, drawing on her experience as an institutional investor and entrepreneur. Her focus today is on companies that make the daily lives of consumers healthier, happier, and more meaningful. In this episode, Amanda and Paul discuss narrowing the wellness gap and investing in psychedelics for long-term solutions to mental illness.
A psychotherapist since 1989, Charley Wininger is also a licensed psychoanalyst and a mental health counselor who specializes in relationships and communication skills. His recent book, Listening To Ecstasy, tracks his personal experience with MDMA as a way to enhance his life and strengthen his marriage. In this podcast, he and Paul chat about the power of MDMA to solidify relationships, rediscover joy, and reconnect to ourselves and each other.
Dr. Craig Heacock, psychiatrist and ketamine treatment provider, offers a counterpoint to a previous guest’s view on mental illness and psychiatric medications. While his goal is always to have patients on as few medications as possible, Craig stresses the importance of correctly understanding the nuances of mental health and mental health treatments instead of painting with a broad brush. He and Paul also discuss the current state and near-future of psychedelic treatments for mental health, as well as the reception of psychedelics among the psychiatric community.
Dr. Nisha Khanna blends Western medicine with the ancient practice of Ayurveda to create holistic health—emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual. Her focus is on getting to the root cause of disease and correcting imbalance, not just covering up the symptoms. In this episode, Nisha and Paul discuss recognizing your higher self, disconnection as disease, and the role of psychedelics in whole-being health.
After several years in high-pressure technology jobs he didn’t enjoy, Nik Vassev had his first psychedelic experience and realized he had full power to transform his life. Less than 18 months later, he had expanded his psychedelic use and created Mindleap, the world’s first tele-health platform for therapeutic integration. In this episode, Nik and Paul discuss changing your life through psychedelics, the drive to help others, and the full meaning of “integration”.
After years spent running an Amsterdam nightclub, Natasja Pelgrom had refined the art of “sex and drugs and rock and roll”. At 33, however, she had an epiphany—and spent the next several years releasing her co-dependencies, healing childhood trauma, and rediscovering how to welcome sacredness back into her life. Today, Natasja is a sacred medicine woman, mystic, devotional creative, and visionary who leads spiritual alchemy journeys, providing a compassionate space for healing and remembering. In this episode, Natasja and Third Wave founder Paul Austin delve deep into the importance of healing ourselves, the power of 5-MeO-DMT, and the role of integration.
Timothy Ko came to the psychedelic space as a result of his deeply personal connections with depression, anxiety, and addiction. As the CEO of Entheon Biomedical, an organization working on a legal IV DMT protocol, Timothy is dedicated to providing an effective and scalable therapy that will serve as a vital resource for those afflicted with a substance-use disorder, and who are wanting to reclaim their lives. In this episode, Timothy and Paul discuss their personal experiences with psychedelics, the benefits of DMT in overcoming addiction, and the life-affirming power of a new perspective.
While a PhD researcher at Imperial College London, Mendel Kaelen investigated the brain mechanisms of classic psychedelic drugs and their effects on music-perception and music-evoked emotion. After a year off spent integrating his ayahuasca experiences in the Amazon, Mendel completed his Master’s Degree before founding Wavepaths, an algorithmic music system that unifies immersive arts, psychotherapies, and intelligent technologies into new models of care. In this episode, Mendel and Paul explore the beauty of randomness, the healing potential of psychedelics, our debt to primal sound, and the power of music to make meaning.
With a decades-long commitment to psychedelic advocacy and research, a firsthand knowledge of the life-changing benefits of plant medicine, and his role as CEO of Psygen Labs, Danny Motyka brings a unique perspective to the future of psychedelics. In this episode, he and Paul discuss the differences between the cannabis and psychedelic industries, the role of plant medicines as preventative treatments, and what psychedelic therapy might look like in the near future.
Bett Williams is a contemporary psychedelics pioneer, author, and podcast host. In this episode, she talks with Paul Austin about her introduction to mushrooms, her decades-long break from them, her re-entry into the world of psychedelics, and her experience with solo, ritualized journeys.
After facilitating the expansion of Esalen Institute, the Denali Education Center, Chena Hot Springs, the Center for Ecological Living and Learning, and more, Ian-Michael Hébert founded Holos, dedicated to a world where humanity honors the interdependence of all life and actively stewards the health of individuals, society, and our planet’s ecosystems. In this episode, Ian-Michael talks with Paul about intentional living, honoring the earth, healing through plant medicine, and giving back to the communities that nurture us.
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Comments (11)

Chris Winn

fucking brilliant

Mar 22nd
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Атанас Байчев

And people are still dogmatized about psychedelics been "bad"? Everything you don't have knowledge of is bad! But with the right knowledge, you can use psychedelics to improve your life 10 times! Thank you Third Wave for your efforts to share the RIGHT knowledge with the masses!

Jan 20th
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gregorior

Good podcast until the guest started shitting out her cliches on feminist victimhood.

Jul 6th
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Dan Osterman

Hey, great conversation. I'm really interested in holotropic breathwork. I'm reading Stan's book currently. Thanks for sharing more insight.

Feb 23rd
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Darude Sandstorm

I usually don’t comment negative statements, but the audio quality is awful. I’m having to end this episode at the 27 minute mark despite being interested in the interview. Disappointing.

Jan 6th
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Jessica Desmoineaux

Yes! the ones on top want to remain on top and we dont need any of it. its harming us as a species #thevenusproject

Aug 24th
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Melissa Paquette

One of my favorite talks. Twice now I've listened to this podcast and got just as much as the first time I heard it. Definetly feel coming back to this one is a great reminder on how to integrate the information received during my journeys.

Jul 14th
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Melissa Paquette

Great talk. Thank you. Hope to see you in November :)

Jul 6th
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Bruno Linus Lejdfelt

when a feminist start talking about there being no difference between men and women: I need to use the restroom, which one was it again? (right door: bla, left door: bla bla bla bla bla)

Jun 25th
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Capt. Steph

love this episode

Apr 23rd
Reply

Capt. Steph

thank you!!!

Mar 7th
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