The Vergecast

The Verge's Lauren Feiner joins Nilay and David to talk about the US government's proposal in its search antitrust case against Google. They discuss the future of Chrome, what a white-label search engine might look like, and how a Trump administration might change the course of this case altogether. Then Nilay and David talk about the week in AI and gadget news, from the latest on Amazon's new Alexa to Google bailing on tablets all over again. Finally, in the lightning round, they discuss Comcast spinning off its cable channels and the latest in the Threads / Bluesky competition. Further reading: DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open its search monopoly Google responds to DOJ’s ‘extreme proposal.’ Google workers to DOJ: we need protections to make your breakup effective Apple fights to keep DOJ antitrust suit from reaching trial Amazon announces new Echo Show 21 and Echo Show 15 smart displays Google may be about to reboot its laptop and tablet hardware again Google reportedly cancels Pixel Tablet 2 and might quit the category — again Sonos’ smart TV plans might have found an OS Windows 365 Link is a $349 mini PC that streams Windows from the cloud Comcast is spinning off its cable TV business Trump names Brendan Carr as his FCC leader Strava closes the gates to sharing fitness data with other apps Inside Elon Musk’s messy breakup with OpenAI Threads’ custom feeds are already rolling out Threads’ algorithm will focus more on the people you follow Bose acquires premium audio brand McIntosh Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Richard Lawler joins the show to chat about the Tyson / Paul fight, and more importantly the fact that Netflix didn't seem to be able to keep up. As live sports — and TV in general — move toward streaming, are even the biggest names in tech ready for what's coming? After that, Roland Allen, the author of The Notebook: A History of Thinking on Paper, tells us about the history of the notebook, and why we've been writing things down about our lives for centuries. Even in a digital world, Allen argues, you just can't beat the notebook. Finally, a question from the Vergecast Hotline sends producer Will Poor down a TikTok Shop rabbit hole. Further reading: Netflix served the Tyson vs. Paul fight to 60 million households NFL fans worry Netflix’s bad Tyson vs. Paul stream means it can’t handle football Netflix adds Beyoncé to live entertainment juggernaut Netflix snagged global streaming rights for NFL Christmas Day games Roland Allen’s website The Notebook: a History of Thinking on Paper Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the third episode in our series about the future of music, we talk with Ge Wang. Ge is a professor at Stanford, a co-founder of Smule, the conductor of Stanford’s laptop orchestra, and has been at the center of technology and artistry for most of his life. We talk about how humans can use AI without giving in to it, what it means to truly play with technology, and the value of art and creativity and friction when it feels like all those things are being taken away. Further reading: Ge Wang’s website The future of computer music | Stanford University School of Engineering Ge’s viral TED talk: The DIY orchestra of the future From Wired: Behind the Scenes With the Stanford Laptop Orchestra Ge Wang: Human Well-Being Should Be AI Creators’ Goal Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk about the future of social, in light of Bluesky's recent surge in growth. Threads is huge, Bluesky is ascendent, Mastodon is... around, but can any of them become the next Twitter? Is that even the goal? After that, Kylie Robison joins the show and the gang discusses Apple's smart home device (which is just an iPad), the AI scaling slowdown, and a new twist in the delivery wars. In the lightning round, it's all about disclosures, wireless carriers, and the sad end of Freevee. Further reading: Twitter’s succession: all the news about alternative social media platforms  One million people have joined Bluesky in the past week. Bluesky adds 700,000 new users in a week The Guardian is quitting X. Remember the TikTok ban? Apple’s rumored six-inch ‘AI wall tablet’ could control your smart home by March 2025 Apple is reportedly working on an Apple Home security camera  Anthropic co-founder Darius Amodei said we’ll have artificial general intelligence “in 2026 or 2027.” Just Eat is selling Grubhub to Marc Lore’s Wonder for $650M Boost Mobile says it’s a real wireless carrier now Amazon is shutting down Freevee Trump says Elon Musk will lead ‘DOGE’ office to cut ‘wasteful’ government spending Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's show: sleep gadgets, AI DJs, and sneaky TVs. Victoria Song joins the show to talk about her experiences with the Eight Sleep mattress pad, the Oura Ring 4, and other sleep gadgets. Can you really measure your way to a better night of sleep? After that, Allison Johnson gives us her take on Spotify's AI DJ, and we wonder exactly how an AI tool is supposed to help us find and listen to music. Finally, Nilay Patel comes on to answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline about the Samsung Frame TVs — and how to figure out whether you need a TV at all. Further reading: Eight Sleep Pod 4 Ultra review: for sale, good night’s sleep, just $4,700 Ozlo Sleepbuds hands-on: resurrected and I’ve slept so good Oura Ring 4 review: still on top — for now Spotify’s AI is no match for a real DJ Samsung’s Frame TV is finally getting the knockoffs it deserves Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the second episode in our three-part miniseries about the future of music, Charlie Harding, a music journalist and co-host of the Switched on Pop podcast, joins the show to tell the story of Auto-Tune. He walks us through how a simple plugin became such a recognizable sound in music, why both artists and fans gravitated to the Auto-Tune sound, and why Auto-Tune has continued to grow even through backlash in the music business. Then we look ahead to AI, and try to figure out what — if any — lessons we might be able to learn about the sound and culture of the AI era to come. Further reading: Charlie Harding on X Switched on Pop From Pitchfork: How Auto-Tune Revolutionized the Sound of Popular Music From Rick Beato: How Auto-Tune DESTROYED Popular Music From Gabi Belle: The Problem with Autotune on TikTok Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk about the election, and how The Vergecast plans to cover and talk about the next four years of the Trump administration. But only for a minute. Then it's onto our reviews of the new Mac Mini and MacBook Pro, which reset Apple's desktop and laptop lineup in an excellent way. After that, Sean Hollister joins the show to discuss his review of the PlayStation 5 Pro, the news about backwards compatibility for the Nintendo Switch successor, and the state of Nintendo's fight against emulators. In the lightning round, we talk about really expensive domain names, oddly named smart home standards, and cloud gaming whales. Which apparently exist. Further reading: Donald Trump wins the 2024 presidential election What does Trump’s election mean for EVs, Tesla, and Elon Musk?  All the Big Tech leaders congratulating Donald Trump  Google CEO says company should be ‘trusted source’ in US election Another Trump presidency is literally toxic — his opponents are gearing up for battle Here’s FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr sucking up to Donald Trump by threatening to take NBC off the air Apple Mac Mini M4 review: a tiny wonder Apple MacBook Pro 14 (2024) review: the Pro for everyone Amazon says it’s fixing the Kindle Colorsoft’s yellow screen Kindle Colorsoft owners complain of a yellow bar on the e-reader’s screen PS5 Pro review: how close is your TV? Nintendo’s next generation is off to a great start Nintendo says the Switch successor will be compatible with Switch games Why is Nintendo targeting this YouTuber? Did OpenAI just spend more than $10 million on a URL? The Matter smart home standard gains support for more devices, including heat pumps and solar panels Nvidia to cap game streaming hours on GeForce Now instead of raising fees Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

November 6th marks 10 years to the day since Amazon surprise-launched a new, cylindrical device called the Echo. It introduced the world to smart speakers, and to the idea that you might be able to get stuff done just by shouting aloud in your living room. But a decade in, what has Alexa really accomplished? The Verge's Jennifer Pattison Tuohy joins the show to talk through the history of Alexa, Amazon's struggles to improve and extend its voice assistant, and the promise of a language model overhaul that might in theory make Alexa far more useful. There's a chance Alexa's second decade might be even more interesting than the first. Further reading: Amazon just surprised everyone with a crazy speaker that talks to you Amazon Echo review: listen up Alexa, where’s my Star Trek Computer? Alexa, thank you for the music The Alexa Skills revolution that wasn’t The Amazon Echo graveyard Amazon’s supercharged Alexa won’t arrive this year Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the first episode in our three-part miniseries on the future of music, we tell the story of Track Star, a music game show that has become a viral hit on TikTok and Instagram. Jack Coyne, the show's friendly host, tells us how Track Star came to be, why the format works so well, and why A-list celebrities like Olivia Rodrigo, Ed Sheeran, and Kamala Harris are all clamoring to be on the show. Coyne also tells us where Track Star might go next — and why the future of music content might look a lot like the past. Further reading: Track Star on TikTok Jack Coyne on Instagram The Olivia Rodrigo episode The "Every Track Star Song" playlist The Malcolm Todd episode Public Opinion Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David discuss a big week in AI news, including the new web search features in ChatGPT and the reporting that Meta is working on something very similar. They also briefly talk about this quarter's tech earnings, and what they say about the ways AI is really being used. Then, Wall Street Journal columnist Joanna Stern joins the show to talk about Apple Intelligence, Apple's week of Mac launches, and why Siri still can't open her garage. Finally, in the lightning round, the hosts talk about Netflix's gentle push into social features, Tony Fadell's AI thoughts, and our endorsement of Kamala Harris. Further reading: OpenAI’s search engine is now live in ChatGPT Meta is reportedly working on its own AI-powered search engine, too Microsoft’s gaming revenue keeps going up, even though hardware sales are down Reddit is profitable for the first time ever, with nearly 100 million daily users Snap Inc. - Financials - Quarterly Results Apple’s Mac week: everything announced Apple announces redesigned Mac Mini with M4 chip — and it’s so damn small Watch Apple show off the M4 Mac Mini in its reveal video - The Verge Apple’s new Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and Magic Trackpad have USB-C Apple put the Magic Mouse’s charging port on the bottom again Apple updates the MacBook Pro with M4 Pro and M4 Max chips Apple updates the iMac with new colors and an M4 chip Apple’s first smart home display could pay homage to a classic iMac Apple Intelligence is out WSJ: Apple’s Craig Federighi Explains Apple Intelligence Delays, Siri’s Future and More Netflix is making it easier to bookmark and share your favorite parts of a show Tony Fadell calls out Sam Altman Tim Walz and AOC are going to play Madden together on Twitch The Verge’s guide to the 2024 presidential election Tech leaders line up to flatter Trump’s ego Jeff Bezos is no longer relentlessly focused on customer satisfaction “You have a Washington Post problem.” From The New York Times: Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and the Billions of Ways to Influence an Election Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kylie Robison joins the show to talk about the recent dueling AI blog posts from OpenAI's Sam Altman and Anthropic's Dario Amodei. What do these CEOs think the future of AI looks like? Then, Will Poor tells us the story of ShakeAlert, an earthquake alert system that has huge potential and some surprising challenges. On The Vergecast Hotline, Allison Johnson joins Will to figure out whether the iPhone's new Camera Control is really as fast as advertised. Further reading: Sam Altman: The Intelligence Age Dario Amodei: Machines of Loving Grace Anthropic’s CEO thinks AI will lead to a utopia — he just needs a few billion dollars first OpenAI plans Orion AI model release for December ShakeAlert If you live on the West Coast and you have an iPhone, here's how to turn on the "Local Awareness" feature that speeds up WEA messages: Download the MyShake app on for iOS or for Android Ready.gov's earthquake advice: About emergency and government alerts on iPhone Apple iPhone 16 and 16 Plus review: all caught up Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay, David, and Richard Lawler talk about all of the coming Apple gadgets and software, from the new iPad Mini to the upcoming week of Mac announcements to the many flavors of iOS and Apple Intelligence heading to a device near you soon. Then they talk about the other news in AI, from Anthropic's new computer-using model to the growing set of lawsuits against AI companies. In the lightning round, they discuss the Boox Palma 2, T-Mobile's "lifetime" deals, and the battle over FTC's click-to-cancel rule. Further reading: Apple iPad Mini 2024 review: missing pieces iOS 18.2 will let everyone set new default phone and messaging apps Apple’s first iOS 18.2 beta adds more AI features and ChatGPT integration Apple teases ‘week’ of Mac announcements starting Monday Apple is preparing an M4 MacBook Air update for early next year Tim Cook says he uses every Apple product every day — how does that work? Tim Cook on Why Apple’s Huge Bets Will Pay Off Anthropic’s latest AI update can use a computer on its own Humane slashes the price of its AI Pin after weak sales Apple is ‘concerned’ about AI turning real photos into ‘fantasy’ News Corp sues Perplexity for ripping off WSJ and New York Post Kevin Bacon, Kate McKinnon, and other creatives warn of ‘unjust’ AI threat Industry groups are suing the FTC to stop its click to cancel rule The Boox Palma 2 has a faster processor and adds a fingerprint reader Seniors are PISSED that T-Mobile won’t honor its “lifetime” price guarantee. Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Victoria Song joins the show to talk about her year of testing smart rings, and which of the many new options is the one you should buy. Then Chris Welch takes us through his testing of the new hearing health features for Apple's AirPods, including the surprisingly intense hearing test you can take right on your phone. Finally, Andrew Webster helps us answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline: why doesn't Apple buy Nintendo, and what would happen if it did? Further reading: We tested six smart rings, and there’s a clear winner Oura Ring 4 review: still on top — for now Apple’s AirPods Pro hearing health features are as good as they sound Apple’s AirPods Pro 2 could forever change how people access hearing aids Super Mario Run hands-on: like Mario, just simpler Microsoft’s Phil Spencer says acquiring Nintendo would be ‘a career moment’ Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the last eight months, David Cogen has been living a double life. By day: a YouTuber and creator, the face of the TheUnlockr channel, reviewing phones and testing ebikes and explaining how food smokers really work. By night and morning and every single other available in-between moment: a coffee shop entrepreneur, working to get a Brooklyn spot called Coffee Check up and running. In this episode, the second in the two-part miniseries that we’re calling How To Make It In The Future, Cogen tells the story of how a YouTuber becomes a coffee shop owner — and how to bring those two things together without ruining them both. Further reading: TheUnlockr on YouTube David’s Coffee Check announcement Coffee Check’s website Another fun YouTuber story: Me, Myself, and iJustine Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk about the week in gadget news, after scoring their predictions on last week's Tesla event. (Spoiler alert: nobody did very well.) They talk about the new iPad Mini, the new Sonos Ace Ultra soundbar, and the new Analogue N64 emulator. Then Amazon's Panos Panay joins the show to discuss this week's big Kindle news, and where he thinks the future of e-readers is headed. Finally, Nilay and David do a lightning round, with a lot of Google org chart news and just a little bit of Trump news. Further reading: The Optimus robots at Tesla’s Cybercab event were humans in disguise The Tesla Cybercab is a cool-looking prototype that needed to be much more than that Tesla’s Robovan is the surprise of the night Apple just announced a new, faster iPad Mini  AMD and Intel are teaming up to fend off ARM chips Sonos announces ‘breakthrough’ Arc Ultra soundbar and Sub 4  Analogue’s 4K Nintendo 64 launches next year for $249 Amazon’s new Kindle family includes the first color Kindle Amazon’s Kindle Colorsoft Signature Edition hands-on: color E Ink looks pretty good Amazon Kindle Scribe 2024: a new design and AI tools for note takers Amazon’s new Kindle and Kindle Paperwhite are faster and brighter Amazon discontinues the last Kindle with physical buttons  Google is replacing the exec in charge of Search and ads Here’s a bunch of bananas shit Trump said today about breaking up Google Trump says Tim Cook called him to complain about the European Union Anthropic’s CEO thinks AI will lead to a utopia — he just needs a few billion dollars first  The New York Times warns AI search engine Perplexity to stop using its content Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before a podcast was a “podcast,” it was… well, it wasn’t really much of anything. It was in 2004, though, that many of the earliest names in on-demand audio began to smush “iPod” and “broadcast” into the word we’ve come to know as the way we all download and listen to shows now. In this episode, we go back two decades to the first days of the podcast. Then we hit the skip button to today and look at where podcasts are headed next. Further reading: From PodNews: The history of the word 'Podcast' From The Guardian: Audible revolution From Wired: The First Podcast: an Oral History From The New York Times: An MTV Host Moves to Radio, Giving Voice to Audible Blogs Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Danny and Steven Sanicki are twins, competitive golfers, and suddenly the biggest names in online mini golf. They started making mini golf content on TikTok about a year ago, and it took off; since then they've been trying to ride the viral wave and also turn it into something that lasts. For this episode, the first in a miniseries we're calling How To Make It In The Future, we talk to the Sanickis about their journey to turn putt-putt into their life's work — without killing the fun in the process. Further reading: @dannysanicki on TikTok Twin Tour Golf on Instagram Twin Tour Golf on YouTube From Golf Digest: How college golf twins and some friends with time to kill accidentally created a viral mini-golf sensation Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David make some predictions about Thursday evening’s Tesla event — which you’ve already seen, but we haven’t! Then they talk about the week’s gadget news, from Nintendo’s new Alarmo alarm clock to Apple’s upcoming iPads and Macs. Then Lauren Feiner joins to talk about the latest on all fronts in Google’s antitrust fight, and how the government might be planning to break up the company altogether. Then it’s time for a lightning round about Google Docs tabs, FEMA misinformation, and Zoom AI avatars. Further reading: The bill finally comes due for Elon Musk In the past week, 4 of Elon Musk's direct reports have announced their exits from Tesla All the buzz about Nintendo’s Alarmo clock I totally forgot we wrote about Nintendo’s sleep tracking alarm clock 10 years ago. Nintendo’s original alarm clock prototypes were a lot less playful A closer look at Nintendo’s adorable Alarmo clock Shrunken Mac Minis and a new iPad Mini might come in November Apple’s Vision Pro leader, Dan Riccio, is retiring A Google breakup is on the table, say DOJ lawyers How the DOJ wants to break up Google’s search monopoly Google must crack open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge The filing: Microsoft Word - FINAL - Google Remedy Framework Google’s response: DOJ’s radical and sweeping proposals risk hurting consumers, businesses, and developers Google Docs is making it much easier to organize information Zoom will let AI avatars talk to your team for you - The Verge Hurricane Milton hits tonight, and it’s past the point of evacuation. Creators are still there. Instagram and Threads moderation is out of control - The Verge FEMA adds misinformation to its list of disasters to clean up Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this full-on “what is a photo” episode, we start by chatting with Halide developers Ben Sandofsky and Sebastiaan De With about what it means to build a camera app in 2024 — and what it means to try and accurately capture a photo. Then The Verge’s Allison Johnson joins the show to talk about her experiment going all-in on AI-ifying her photos. Finally, we answer a hotline about which gadgets to attach to your head when you go for a run. Further reading: Halide Halide’s Process Zero feature captures photos with no AI processing Let’s compare Apple, Google, and Samsung’s definitions of ‘a photo’ No one’s ready for this Google’s AI tool helped us add disasters and corpses to our photos The AI photo editing era is hare, and it’s every person for themselves This system can sort real pictures from AI fakes — why aren’t platforms using it? Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay, Alex, and David discuss Microsoft's new Copilot announcements, and the friendlier face the company is trying to put on its chatbot. They also wonder: what, exactly, is an AI companion supposed to do for you, and how is it supposed to do it? They then dive into OpenAI's huge funding round, before exploring all the new gadgets of the week and some deep drama in the WordPress universe. Finally, it's time for a lightning round of news about Dish and DirecTV, Progressive Web Apps, and Nintendo's fight against emulation. We also send off Alex, our sadly departing co-host, with cake and Plex servers. Further reading: Microsoft gives Copilot a voice and vision in its biggest redesign yet Read Microsoft’s optimistic memo about the future of AI companions Shh, ChatGPT. That’s a Secret. - The Atlantic College students used Meta’s smart glasses to dox people in real time Sonos has a plan to earn back your trust, and here it is Chromebooks are getting a new button dedicated to Google’s AI Microsoft is discontinuing its HoloLens headsets Google’s Pixel Buds are now fully supported on Windows and macOS. Automattic demanded a cut of WP Engine’s revenue before starting WordPress battle DirecTV and Dish are merging Nintendo has reportedly shut down Ryujinx, the Switch emulator that was supposedly immune Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices