The Vergecast

Happy holidays! Before we disappear into family time and catching up on our favorite shows, we have one more episode for you. And it's 90 minutes of deep nerdery about the smart home. Every year, we try to dig into one standard or spec that has impacted our lives this year, and we couldn't think of anything more potentially great and occasionally infuriating than Matter. Matter is supposed to be the protocol that makes the smart home work — so, uh, how's that going? The Verge's Jennifer Pattison Tuohy joins to discuss the state of the smart home, before we play a game to see how well we understand things. Then, Home Assistant creator Paulus Schoutsen tells us what it's like to try and make Matter work, and where we might be headed next year. Further reading: Matter: everything you need to know about the new smart home protocol Matter’s plan to save the smart home The Thread 1.4 spec is here, but it will be a while until we see any benefit What is Thread and how will it help your smart home? Every device that works with Matter (December 2024) Home Assistant’s next era begins now The Home Assistant Green is here to make the most powerful smart home platform more accessible Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Victoria Song and Kylie Robison join the show to talk about all of Google's recent AI and XR announcements, and the company's big and Gemini-powered vision for the future of computing. Then Chris Grant, the group publisher for Polygon and The Verge, explains why GTA VI and the Nintendo Switch 2 are so important to the future of gaming — plus a few predictions about how they'll turn out. Finally, The Verge's Helen Havlak answers a hotline question about how she plans her garden in Figma. Which is a real thing she really does. Further reading: The Vergecast at CES – come see us on January 8th! Google launched Gemini 2.0, its new AI model for practically everything Google’s AI enters its ‘agentic era’ I saw Google’s plan to put Android on your face GTA VI: all the news on Rockstar’s next entry in the Grand Theft Auto series Switch 2: all the news and rumors on Nintendo’s next console Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the second episode in our two-part 2025 preview, Nilay and David are once again joined by Wall Street Journal columnist (and friend of The Verge) Joanna Stern to talk about what will, and won't, happen in tech next year. This time, David joins us after a quick jaunt to the end of next year, and relays a bunch of things that happened in tech in 2025. But some of them are lies. Joanna and Nilay have to decide which things really will happen next year, and which won't. As always, the hosts get points for good guesses and negative points for bad ones. And once we're all in late 2025, we'll declare a winner. Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay, David, and The Verge's Richard Lawler talk about a big week in AI news. First, they go over all the latest on Google's Gemini 2.0 launch, and try to figure out whether Project Astra and Project Mariner will ever turn into products people use. They also discuss OpenAI's release (and un-release) of Sora, the new Reddit Answers tool, and what's new in iOS 18.2. Finally, in the lightning round, there's talk of YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Sonos, and Cruise. There also is and isn't talk of quantum computing. Because that's possible now. Further reading: Google’s AI enters its ‘agentic era’  Gemini 2.0: what’s new in Google’s new flagship AI model Google’s AI-powered smart glasses are a little closer to being real  Google’s new Jules AI agent will help developers fix buggy code Google is testing Gemini AI agents that help you in video games Google built an AI tool that can do research for you Android XR_Keyword OpenAI has finally released Sora iOS 18.2 is out now, adding ChatGPT integration and more Apple Intelligence tools ChatGPT’s side-by-side ‘Canvas’ view is now available to everyone.  Reddit’s new AI search tool helps you find Reddit answers without Google YouTube is still growing fast on TVs in the living room Instagram will let creators test experimental reels on random people It sure sounds like Trump would be okay with a TikTok sale TikTok failed to save itself with the First Amendment Sonos Arc Ultra review: don’t call it a comeback (yet) Google reveals quantum computing chip with ‘breakthrough’ achievements Amazon’s online car ‘dealership’ with Hyundai is now live YouTube’s AI-powered dubbing is now available to many more creators Searching for color at Pantone’s all-brown party  Adam Mosseri on introducing Trial Reels From WSJ: iOS 18.2 Review: The AI Apple Promised Us Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A week ago, The Verge launched a subscription. And you had questions! So we have answers. The Verge’s Helen Havlak and Nilay Patel join the show to talk about how we priced the subscription, why ad-free podcasts are hard to do, Apple News, what we do during ad breaks, and much more. And if we didn’t answer your question, let us know! Call the Vergecast Hotline at 866-VERGE11, or email vergecast@theverge.com, with all your questions. Thanks to everyone who sent them in! Further reading: Nilay's post about The Verge subscription Subscribe to The Verge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our two-part preview of the year to come! For the first installment, Nilay, David, and Wall Street Journal columnist Joanna Stern bring all the predictions for 2025 — their mildest, medium-est, and spiciest ideas about the year to come. Each host presents their take on TikTok bans, social platforms, smart homes, streaming services, and more, and the others get to decide whether they agree. Whoever gets the most right at the end of the year will win a big prize. (There's a points system for determining all that, but we'll figure that out later.) Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk a bit about this week’s launch of the Verge subscription, plus what’s coming next. (There’s still time to send questions for next week! 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast@theverge.com.) Then they talk about the streaming news of the week, and the ways streaming services are continuing to act like cable companies. Then Kylie Robison joins to talk about the lowering stakes for AGI, shipmas at OpenAI, and more. Finally, in the lighting round, it’s crypto and browsers and Intel. And more crypto. Further reading: Here we go: The Verge now has a subscription ESPN is coming to the Disney Plus app starting today Max is testing always-on HBO channels Max is finally about to start cracking down on password sharing. Walmart bought Vizio  OpenAI’s 12 days of ‘shipmas’ include Sora and new reasoning model Sam Altman says AGI will “matter much less” than people expect Sam Altman on Elon Musk and OpenAI’s relationship with Microsoft. ChatGPT’s search results for news are ‘unpredictable’ and frequently inaccurate Stop using generative AI as a search engine Misinformation expert admits ChatGPT added fake details to his anti-deepfake court filing Bitcoin just hit $100,000  Dia is the The Browser Company’s AI-powered follow-up to Arc Threads takes an important baby step toward true fediverse integration Threads’ next update is a search feature that finds the post you’re looking for Meta says it’s mistakenly removing too many posts Intel’s CEO is out after only three years What happened to Intel? Trump picks two nominees who could decide the fate of Big Tech and crypto  Spotify Wrapped 2024 adds an AI podcast to recap your listening habits Apple Music’s yearly recap is finally available in the app Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Thomas Ricker joins the show with an update on his question to live the #vanlife. He shares stories about Starlink Mini, the new Peak Design backpack everyone loves, converting a Sprinter van to a mobile apartment, and more. Then, The Verge's Andru Marino takes us through his tests on a bunch of new creator- and social-friendly microphones, which plug into your phone and promise to make everything sound better. Finally, we answer a question about web browsers on the Vergecast Hotline. (Don't forget to send us your questions about The Verge and The Vergecast for next week's episode! Call 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast@theverge.com with all your most meta questions.) Further reading: Starlink Mini review: space internet goes ultraportable Peak Design’s Outdoor Backpack is a more versatile everyday bag Stoke Voltaics’ portable electric cookware review This backpack solar generator can help you ignore nature This little box provides on-demand power when off the grid Living and working from an all-electric VW ID Buzz DJI’s new wireless mics skip a few features to get smaller and lighter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2024 is almost over, somehow. So we gathered a bunch of our Verge colleagues and told them each to tell us three things from the year: the biggest story, their favorite new tech thing, and their favorite new non-tech thing. We got a collection of big stories, cool gadgets, great movies, and more good stuff from the year that was. We're also planning a special episode for Tuesday, December 10th, all about The Verge and The Vergecast. So if you have questions about how we work, what we cover, why we talk about copyright law so much, or what Nilay is actually like to work with every day, tell us! Call 866-VERGE11, or email vergecast@theverge.com, and we'll answer as many as we can on the 10th. Thanks in advance! Further reading: Jay Peters: Story of the year: Google is a monopoly New thing of the year: Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Non-tech thing of the year: XOXO Field Notes notebooks Jake Kastrenakes: Story of the year: All things AI New thing of the year: The Wiim Ultra amp Non-tech thing of the year: Chronoloy Justine Calma Story of the year: The US election, and the rise of nuclear power New thing of the year: Nurse Unseen Non-tech thing of the year: Sugarcane Vjeran Pavic: Story of the year: The Apple Vision Pro New thing of the year: The Fujifilm X100VI and the Kino app Non-tech thing of the year: Mountain Gazette Kylie Robison: Story of the year: Billionaire crybabies New thing of the year: Stardew Valley Non-tech thing of the year: Curated playlists Barbara Krasnoff: Story of the year: The US election New thing of the year: The Elgato Stream Deck Non-tech thing of the year: Googly eyes Alex Heath: Story of the year: The AI rat race New thing of the year: Granola Non-tech thing of the year: Shochu Ash Parrish: Story of the year: Grand Theft Auto VI and the Nintendo Switch 2, and more industry layoffs New thing of the year: The Playstation Portal Non-tech thing of the year: Bucephalus the puppy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Lauren Feiner joins Nilay and David to talk about the US government's proposal in its search antitrust case against Google. They discuss the future of Chrome, what a white-label search engine might look like, and how a Trump administration might change the course of this case altogether. Then Nilay and David talk about the week in AI and gadget news, from the latest on Amazon's new Alexa to Google bailing on tablets all over again. Finally, in the lightning round, they discuss Comcast spinning off its cable channels and the latest in the Threads / Bluesky competition. Further reading: DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open its search monopoly Google responds to DOJ’s ‘extreme proposal.’ Google workers to DOJ: we need protections to make your breakup effective Apple fights to keep DOJ antitrust suit from reaching trial Amazon announces new Echo Show 21 and Echo Show 15 smart displays Google may be about to reboot its laptop and tablet hardware again Google reportedly cancels Pixel Tablet 2 and might quit the category — again Sonos’ smart TV plans might have found an OS Windows 365 Link is a $349 mini PC that streams Windows from the cloud Comcast is spinning off its cable TV business Trump names Brendan Carr as his FCC leader Strava closes the gates to sharing fitness data with other apps Inside Elon Musk’s messy breakup with OpenAI Threads’ custom feeds are already rolling out Threads’ algorithm will focus more on the people you follow Bose acquires premium audio brand McIntosh Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Richard Lawler joins the show to chat about the Tyson / Paul fight, and more importantly the fact that Netflix didn't seem to be able to keep up. As live sports — and TV in general — move toward streaming, are even the biggest names in tech ready for what's coming? After that, Roland Allen, the author of The Notebook: A History of Thinking on Paper, tells us about the history of the notebook, and why we've been writing things down about our lives for centuries. Even in a digital world, Allen argues, you just can't beat the notebook. Finally, a question from the Vergecast Hotline sends producer Will Poor down a TikTok Shop rabbit hole. Further reading: Netflix served the Tyson vs. Paul fight to 60 million households NFL fans worry Netflix’s bad Tyson vs. Paul stream means it can’t handle football Netflix adds Beyoncé to live entertainment juggernaut Netflix snagged global streaming rights for NFL Christmas Day games Roland Allen’s website The Notebook: a History of Thinking on Paper Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the third episode in our series about the future of music, we talk with Ge Wang. Ge is a professor at Stanford, a co-founder of Smule, the conductor of Stanford’s laptop orchestra, and has been at the center of technology and artistry for most of his life. We talk about how humans can use AI without giving in to it, what it means to truly play with technology, and the value of art and creativity and friction when it feels like all those things are being taken away. Further reading: Ge Wang’s website The future of computer music | Stanford University School of Engineering Ge’s viral TED talk: The DIY orchestra of the future From Wired: Behind the Scenes With the Stanford Laptop Orchestra Ge Wang: Human Well-Being Should Be AI Creators’ Goal Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk about the future of social, in light of Bluesky's recent surge in growth. Threads is huge, Bluesky is ascendent, Mastodon is... around, but can any of them become the next Twitter? Is that even the goal? After that, Kylie Robison joins the show and the gang discusses Apple's smart home device (which is just an iPad), the AI scaling slowdown, and a new twist in the delivery wars. In the lightning round, it's all about disclosures, wireless carriers, and the sad end of Freevee. Further reading: Twitter’s succession: all the news about alternative social media platforms  One million people have joined Bluesky in the past week. Bluesky adds 700,000 new users in a week The Guardian is quitting X. Remember the TikTok ban? Apple’s rumored six-inch ‘AI wall tablet’ could control your smart home by March 2025 Apple is reportedly working on an Apple Home security camera  Anthropic co-founder Darius Amodei said we’ll have artificial general intelligence “in 2026 or 2027.” Just Eat is selling Grubhub to Marc Lore’s Wonder for $650M Boost Mobile says it’s a real wireless carrier now Amazon is shutting down Freevee Trump says Elon Musk will lead ‘DOGE’ office to cut ‘wasteful’ government spending Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's show: sleep gadgets, AI DJs, and sneaky TVs. Victoria Song joins the show to talk about her experiences with the Eight Sleep mattress pad, the Oura Ring 4, and other sleep gadgets. Can you really measure your way to a better night of sleep? After that, Allison Johnson gives us her take on Spotify's AI DJ, and we wonder exactly how an AI tool is supposed to help us find and listen to music. Finally, Nilay Patel comes on to answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline about the Samsung Frame TVs — and how to figure out whether you need a TV at all. Further reading: Eight Sleep Pod 4 Ultra review: for sale, good night’s sleep, just $4,700 Ozlo Sleepbuds hands-on: resurrected and I’ve slept so good Oura Ring 4 review: still on top — for now Spotify’s AI is no match for a real DJ Samsung’s Frame TV is finally getting the knockoffs it deserves Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the second episode in our three-part miniseries about the future of music, Charlie Harding, a music journalist and co-host of the Switched on Pop podcast, joins the show to tell the story of Auto-Tune. He walks us through how a simple plugin became such a recognizable sound in music, why both artists and fans gravitated to the Auto-Tune sound, and why Auto-Tune has continued to grow even through backlash in the music business. Then we look ahead to AI, and try to figure out what — if any — lessons we might be able to learn about the sound and culture of the AI era to come. Further reading: Charlie Harding on X Switched on Pop From Pitchfork: How Auto-Tune Revolutionized the Sound of Popular Music From Rick Beato: How Auto-Tune DESTROYED Popular Music From Gabi Belle: The Problem with Autotune on TikTok Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David talk about the election, and how The Vergecast plans to cover and talk about the next four years of the Trump administration. But only for a minute. Then it's onto our reviews of the new Mac Mini and MacBook Pro, which reset Apple's desktop and laptop lineup in an excellent way. After that, Sean Hollister joins the show to discuss his review of the PlayStation 5 Pro, the news about backwards compatibility for the Nintendo Switch successor, and the state of Nintendo's fight against emulators. In the lightning round, we talk about really expensive domain names, oddly named smart home standards, and cloud gaming whales. Which apparently exist. Further reading: Donald Trump wins the 2024 presidential election What does Trump’s election mean for EVs, Tesla, and Elon Musk?  All the Big Tech leaders congratulating Donald Trump  Google CEO says company should be ‘trusted source’ in US election Another Trump presidency is literally toxic — his opponents are gearing up for battle Here’s FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr sucking up to Donald Trump by threatening to take NBC off the air Apple Mac Mini M4 review: a tiny wonder Apple MacBook Pro 14 (2024) review: the Pro for everyone Amazon says it’s fixing the Kindle Colorsoft’s yellow screen Kindle Colorsoft owners complain of a yellow bar on the e-reader’s screen PS5 Pro review: how close is your TV? Nintendo’s next generation is off to a great start Nintendo says the Switch successor will be compatible with Switch games Why is Nintendo targeting this YouTuber? Did OpenAI just spend more than $10 million on a URL? The Matter smart home standard gains support for more devices, including heat pumps and solar panels Nvidia to cap game streaming hours on GeForce Now instead of raising fees Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

November 6th marks 10 years to the day since Amazon surprise-launched a new, cylindrical device called the Echo. It introduced the world to smart speakers, and to the idea that you might be able to get stuff done just by shouting aloud in your living room. But a decade in, what has Alexa really accomplished? The Verge's Jennifer Pattison Tuohy joins the show to talk through the history of Alexa, Amazon's struggles to improve and extend its voice assistant, and the promise of a language model overhaul that might in theory make Alexa far more useful. There's a chance Alexa's second decade might be even more interesting than the first. Further reading: Amazon just surprised everyone with a crazy speaker that talks to you Amazon Echo review: listen up Alexa, where’s my Star Trek Computer? Alexa, thank you for the music The Alexa Skills revolution that wasn’t The Amazon Echo graveyard Amazon’s supercharged Alexa won’t arrive this year Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the first episode in our three-part miniseries on the future of music, we tell the story of Track Star, a music game show that has become a viral hit on TikTok and Instagram. Jack Coyne, the show's friendly host, tells us how Track Star came to be, why the format works so well, and why A-list celebrities like Olivia Rodrigo, Ed Sheeran, and Kamala Harris are all clamoring to be on the show. Coyne also tells us where Track Star might go next — and why the future of music content might look a lot like the past. Further reading: Track Star on TikTok Jack Coyne on Instagram The Olivia Rodrigo episode The "Every Track Star Song" playlist The Malcolm Todd episode Public Opinion Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay and David discuss a big week in AI news, including the new web search features in ChatGPT and the reporting that Meta is working on something very similar. They also briefly talk about this quarter's tech earnings, and what they say about the ways AI is really being used. Then, Wall Street Journal columnist Joanna Stern joins the show to talk about Apple Intelligence, Apple's week of Mac launches, and why Siri still can't open her garage. Finally, in the lightning round, the hosts talk about Netflix's gentle push into social features, Tony Fadell's AI thoughts, and our endorsement of Kamala Harris. Further reading: OpenAI’s search engine is now live in ChatGPT Meta is reportedly working on its own AI-powered search engine, too Microsoft’s gaming revenue keeps going up, even though hardware sales are down Reddit is profitable for the first time ever, with nearly 100 million daily users Snap Inc. - Financials - Quarterly Results Apple’s Mac week: everything announced Apple announces redesigned Mac Mini with M4 chip — and it’s so damn small Watch Apple show off the M4 Mac Mini in its reveal video - The Verge Apple’s new Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and Magic Trackpad have USB-C Apple put the Magic Mouse’s charging port on the bottom again Apple updates the MacBook Pro with M4 Pro and M4 Max chips Apple updates the iMac with new colors and an M4 chip Apple’s first smart home display could pay homage to a classic iMac Apple Intelligence is out WSJ: Apple’s Craig Federighi Explains Apple Intelligence Delays, Siri’s Future and More Netflix is making it easier to bookmark and share your favorite parts of a show Tony Fadell calls out Sam Altman Tim Walz and AOC are going to play Madden together on Twitch The Verge’s guide to the 2024 presidential election Tech leaders line up to flatter Trump’s ego Jeff Bezos is no longer relentlessly focused on customer satisfaction “You have a Washington Post problem.” From The New York Times: Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and the Billions of Ways to Influence an Election Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kylie Robison joins the show to talk about the recent dueling AI blog posts from OpenAI's Sam Altman and Anthropic's Dario Amodei. What do these CEOs think the future of AI looks like? Then, Will Poor tells us the story of ShakeAlert, an earthquake alert system that has huge potential and some surprising challenges. On The Vergecast Hotline, Allison Johnson joins Will to figure out whether the iPhone's new Camera Control is really as fast as advertised. Further reading: Sam Altman: The Intelligence Age Dario Amodei: Machines of Loving Grace Anthropic’s CEO thinks AI will lead to a utopia — he just needs a few billion dollars first OpenAI plans Orion AI model release for December ShakeAlert If you live on the West Coast and you have an iPhone, here's how to turn on the "Local Awareness" feature that speeds up WEA messages: Download the MyShake app on for iOS or for Android Ready.gov's earthquake advice: About emergency and government alerts on iPhone Apple iPhone 16 and 16 Plus review: all caught up Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices