Anil Seth and Michael Levin debate whether brains are computers, how consciousness relates to substrate, and if algorithms can ever capture life and mind. Levin argues machines can access a platonic space of agency via embodied interfaces, xenobots, and compositional agents, while Seth challenges the software-hardware split using information theory, Granger causality, and psychophysics. Together they probe islands of awareness, degeneracy, bubble-sort side quests, LLM surprises, alignment, and how to ask better scientific questions.- 00:00 - Anil Seth & Michael Levin: Islands of Consciousness & Xenobots- 08:24 - Substrate Dependence: Why Biology Isn't Just 'Wetware'- 13:13 - Beyond Algorithms: Do Machines Tap Into a 'Platonic Space'?- 21:46 - The Ghost in the Algorithm: Emergent Agency in Bubble Sort- 29:26 - Degeneracy: The Biological Principle AI is Missing- 36:34 - The Multiplicity of Agency: Are Your Cells Conscious?- 43:24 - Unconscious Processing or Inaccessible Consciousness? The Split-Brain Problem- 49:32 - The Ultimate Experiment to Decode Consciousness- 57:31 - A Counter-Intuitive Discovery: Consciousness is Less Emergent- 1:03:39 - Psychedelics, LLMs, and the Frontiers of SurpriseSPONSORS:- HelloFresh: Get 10 Free Meals + a Free Item for Life. One per box with active subscription; free meals applied as discount on first box; new subscribers only; varies by plan. http://HelloFresh.com/THEORIESOFEVERYTHING10FM- Claude: 50% off Claude Pro, including Claude Code. http://claude.ai/theoriesofeverythingRESOURCES:- Michael Levin [TOE]: https://youtu.be/c8iFtaltX-s- Anil Seth [TOE]: https://youtu.be/_hUEqXhDbVs- Geoffrey Hinton [TOE]: https://youtu.be/b_DUft-BdIE- Living Things Are Not Machines [Article]: https://www.noemamag.com/living-things-are-not-machines-also-they-totally-are/- Classical Sorting Algorithms [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.05375- Michael Levin and Anna Ciaunica [TOE]: https://youtu.be/2aLhkm6QUgA- Being You: A New Science of Consciousness [Book]: https://www.amazon.com/Being-You-New-Science-Consciousness/dp/1524742872/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0- The Consciousness Iceberg [TOE]: https://youtu.be/65yjqIDghEk- Iain McGilchrist [TOE]: https://youtu.be/Q9sBKCd2HD0- Matt Segall [TOE]: https://youtu.be/DeTm4fSXpbM- Andres Gomez-Emilsson [TOE]: https://youtu.be/gi08eVU_-f8- MIT's Augmentation Summit: https://augmentationlab.org/summit- Granger Causality Analysis [Paper]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25716830/- Dynamical Independence [Paper]: https://journals.aps.org/pre/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevE.99.022143
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the last 15 mins of the discussion when it turned to existential meaning was very good
"let me interrupt your answer with another question" for two hours straight
If anyone deserves fame and fortune for your work and attitude in this community, it's Kurt 👏 what a brilliant man
I want to believe Dr. Greer, but his entire affect is off-putting (to me, anyway). I have worked in the largest federal biomedical research organization in the US for >30 years, & in this time have worked with Nobel Laureates, bench scientists, clinicians, you name it. Dr. Greer's prickly attitude when being pressed for facts and his name dropping are tiresome. A large part of scientific discussion centers around citing sources and providing tangible proof. He gets so irritated when asked for specifics; I can't quite put my finger on it. It's similar to having a discussion with an over-sensitive adolescent. Curt did a great job of working around Dr. Greer's ego...
Mr Greer says that 'Alien abduction' is human (US) instigated. If that was so then why wouldn't the US goto Russia and 'Abduct' Mr Putin for World peace? #nuke #Ukraine #UAP #CE5
Absolutely fantastic interview and guest. Really love the intellect of the host too, so refreshing to hear 👏
Hello Curt, you have some great guests. You do need to work on your research so that you stop jumping all over the place with your questions. You will develop some more empathy with experience so that you then have great conversations with your guests rather sounding like Rain Man asking questions.