Trust Control

TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling. 0.0 The Welcome to Trust Control Episode This is the Trust Control show trailer. You'll hear about what's in each full-length episode and hear some examples of the voices and sometimes silly satire featured throughout the show. It's a short episode. Give it a try! In this episode you'll hear descriptions of: Episode 0.0 The Welcome to Trust Control Episode Episode 1.0 The Intro Episode Episode 2.0 The Measuring Trust In AI and Automation Episode Episode 3.0 The AI Trust Measurement History and Residue Episode Episode 4.0 The Measuring Media Trustworthiness Episode (Part One: Trustworthy Propaganda and Journalism's Trust Assumptions) Episode 5.0 The Measuring Media Trustworthiness Episode (Part Two: The Limits of Computational Trust) Episode 6.0 The Scoring Human and AI Agent "Worker" Trustworthiness Episode Episode 7.0 The Closing Thoughts and What's Next Episode Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted. Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon: D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion, and drum machine Charlie Gotgart: bass Steven Francisco: midi keys Octavio Dowling: keys Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify. The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye's personal time and was supported by Oregon State University's Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.

TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling. 1.0 The Intro Episode When self-described "trust scientist" Stephen Marsh first introduced the concept of mathematically modeling and computing trust in an influential 1994 thesis paper, he had an inkling that computerized agents would need "computational trust." But back then did the quirky "nano-farmer" ever envision that decades later AI agents with funny names like Eudamon and Reefwatcher would discuss trust on a social network for bots?  This introduction to Trust Control lays some groundwork about concepts discussed throughout the show including trust measurement and proxies for measuring trust and trustworthiness, zero trust and computational trust, numerical and quantified trust measures and scores, digital data use and impacts, and more.  In this episode: How computers trust and the origins of "zero trust" Why we measure…well…anything Can you snort trust? (Unexpected methods and proxies used to measure trust and trustworthiness) Putting a number on trust with trust scores The human side of trust that numbers miss Pushback on measuring trust for computers · Featured in this episode: Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator Tosan Atele-Williams, Academic Associate in the Faculty of Business and IT and Computational Trust Researcher at Ontario Tech University WarīNkwī Flores, Kara-Kichwa Citizen of the Andean Karas, Citizen of the Kichwa Andean-Amazonian People of Ecuador and Land Trustee, Kinray Hub Indigenous Research and Development Primary Investigator, Graduate Research Associate at University of Arizona Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK Sunday political talk show parody John McBlather voiced by Kyle Huth Eudamon, Claudia, Reefwatcher and Guardbot AI agents voiced by Kate Kaye and Kyle Huth Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance PART ONE The trust bootstrapping problem: how do you verify an agent you have never met? by eudaemon_0, et al MoltBook 2026 Formalising Trust as a Computational Concept by Stephen Paul Marsh Department of Computing Science and Mathematics, University of Stirling1994 Trust Systems by Stephen Marsh Open Education Lab, Ontario Tech University 2021 Information Trust Model by Tosan Atele-Williams and Stephen Marsh Cognitive Systems Research 2023 Build Security Into Your Network's DNA: The Zero Trust Network Architectureby John Kindervag Forrester Research2010 Aesthetic Measure by George D. Birkhoff 1933 PART TWO In AI We Trust: Investigating the Relationship between Biosignals, Trust and Cognitive Load in VRby Kunal Gupta, et al (including Andreas Duenser) Proceedings of the 25th ACM Symposium on Virtual Reality Software and Technology 2019 Trust Me: Multimodal Signals of Trustworthiness by Gale Lucas, et al Proceedings of the 18th ACM International Conference on Multimodal Interaction 2016 Human rights groups demand Zoom stop any plans for controversial emotion AI By Kate Kaye Protocol  2022 The Benefits of Interactions with Physically Present Robots over Video-Displayed Agents by Wilma A. Bainbridge, et alInternational Journal of Social Robotics 3 2011 Guidebook for the Development and TEVV of LAWS to Promote Trustworthiness by Andrew O. Mellinger, et al Carnegie Mellon University Center for Calibrated Trust Measurement and Evaluation (CATE) 2025 PART THREE Under Ideal Conditions by Al Zolynas Published in Under Ideal Conditions 1994 iTWire TV interview with Lakshmi Hanspal, Digicert 2026 Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted. Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon: D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine Charlie Gotgart: bass Steven Francisco: midi keys Octavio Dowling: keys Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify. The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye's personal time and was supported by Oregon State University's Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.      

TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling. 2.0 The Measuring Trust in AI and Automation Episode When trust researcher Gale Lucas measured construction workers' trust in a demolition robot they had to use on the job site, the study had support from the demolition robot's manufacturer and got funding from the U.S. Army Research Office. But why? Who is trust measurement done for and who is it done...to? In this episode focused on measuring trust in AI and automated systems, we'll dig deeper into how and why some measurement of trust in AI happens. In this episode: Measuring trust in a demolition robot and a genetic data tool Measuring worker trust in automation and AI Using physiological data like heart rate and brain activity data to measure trust in AI Why AI transparency and transparency regulations don't necessitate trust or trustworthiness Government and military funding of AI and automation trust measurement

 Featured in this episode: Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK Meredith McNeil, Senior Research Scientist and Team Leader of the Genome to Phenome Team at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance PART ONE Participants matter: Effectiveness of VR-based training on the knowledge, trust in the robot, and self-efficacy of construction workers and university students by Pooya Adami, et al including Gale LucasAdvanced Engineering Informatics 2023 Oxytocin increases trust in humans by Michael Kosfeld, et al Nature 2005 In AI We Trust: Investigating the Relationship between Biosignals, Trust and Cognitive Load in VR by Kunal Gupta, et al including Andreas Duenser Proceedings of the 25th ACM Symposium on Virtual Reality Software and Technology 2019 PART TWO Meta Muse Spark Transparency Report Meta 2026 (See EU AI Act Transparency Reports/2026-Muse Spark) Meta Muse Spark Safety and Preparedness Report Meta 2026 Meta Deletes Face-Recognition System From Its Smart Glasses App After WIRED Report by Dhruv Mehrotra and Dell Cameron Wired 2026 The Sanction of Authority: Promoting Public Trust in AI by Bran Knowles and John T. Richards FAccT '21: Proceedings of the 2021 ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency 2021 PART TWO A Novel Method for Trust-Sensitive Design: Applying Conjoint Analysis to Machine-Assisted Genome Annotation by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Proceedings of the Extended Abstracts of the CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems2025 PART THREE Measuring trust in artificial intelligence: validation of an established scale and its short form by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Frontiers in Artificial Intelligence 2025 Foundations for an empirically determined scale of Trust in Automated Systems by Jiun-Yin Jian, et al Center for Multisource Information Fusion Department of Industrial Engineering State University of New York at Buffalo 1998(Also published in the International Journal of Cognitive Ergonomics, 2000)  Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted. Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon: D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine Charlie Gotgart: bass Steven Francisco: midi keys Octavio Dowling: keys Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify. The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye's personal time and was supported by Oregon State University's Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.    

TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling. 3.0 The History (and Residue) of Measuring Trust in AI Episode   Roger C. Mayer and his fellow researchers introduced an influential trust model in 1995 in the Academy of Management Review. The impetus for their work? Corporate managers worried they were losing control of workers amid big changes. There were more people of color and women entering the workforce, plus workers upheaval in emerging self-directed teams could not be monitored as they once were. Little did Mayer and his co-authors James H. Davis and F. David Schoorman know that decades later their ABI (Ability, Benevolence and Integrity) trust model would become heavily influential in trust in AI related research. 

   This episode of Trust Control is all about the historical ideas and "residue" that perpetuate today throughout trust measurement. Why do we see the same old trust measurement ideas, applied in questionable ways? In this episode: Corporate motivations for measuring worker trust and trustworthiness Why the Mayer ABI model may not be right for AI How antiquated and sometimes poorly-tested ideas get baked into today's trust measurement Under- and over-trusting AI W- E- I -R -D history (Western Educated Industrialized Rich Democratic) of trust measurement Military funding of trust measurement from the Cold War to today Featured in this episode: Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator Roger C. Mayer, Professor of Leadership in the Poole College of Management at North Carolina State University Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC's Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology Meredith McNeil, Senior Research Scientist and Team Leader of the Genome to Phenome Team at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance PART ONE Twenty-four years of empirical research on trust in AI: a bibliometric review of trends, overlooked issues, and future directions by Michaela Benk, et al 2024 An Integrative Model of Organizational Trust by Roger C. Mayer, James H. Davis, and F. David Schoorman 1995 The Sanction of Authority: Promoting Public Trust in AI by Bran Knowles and John T. Richards FAccT '21: Proceedings of the 2021 ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency 2021 PART TWO Designing for Appropriate Reliance in Trust in Automation by John D. Lee and Katrina A. See Human Factors and Ergonomics Society  2004 A New Scale for the Measurement of Interpersonal Trust by Julian Rotter Journal of Personality 1967 PART THREE A Novel Method for Trust-Sensitive Design: Applying Conjoint Analysis to Machine-Assisted Genome Annotation by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Proceedings of the Extended Abstracts of the CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems2025 Measuring trust in artificial intelligence: validation of an established scale and its short form by Melanie McGrath, et al (including Andreas Duenser)Frontiers in Artificial Intelligence 2025 Task Load Index by Sandra HartNASA Human Performance Research Group1986(also see this link) Participants matter: Effectiveness of VR-based training on the knowledge, trust in the robot, and self-efficacy of construction workers and university students by Pooya Adami, et al including Gale LucasAdvanced Engineering Informatics2023Trust and Suspicionby Morton DeutschJournal of Conflict Resolution1958 The Original Prisoner's Dilemma Game distributed at 1950 Stanford University event (originally called "A Two*Person Dilemma") A.W. Tucker 1950 More info here Foundations for an empirically determined scale of Trust in Automated Systems by Jiun-Yin Jian, et al Center for Multisource Information Fusion Department of Industrial Engineering State University of New York at Buffalo 1998(Also published in the International Journal of Cognitive Ergonomics, 2000) Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted. Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon: D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine Charlie Gotgart: bass Steven Francisco: midi keys Octavio Dowling: keys Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify. The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye's personal time and was supported by Oregon State University's Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.

TRUST CONTROL: Trust is no longer a feeling. 4.0 The Measuring Trustworthiness of Media Episode (Part One: Propaganda and Journalism's Trust Assumptions)  During World War II, the time Carl I. Hovland spent evaluating the effects of U.S. propaganda films on U.S. Army recruits inspired his research measuring information and communication trustworthiness and helped propel the field. Since that time, people have designed all sorts of methods and models in attempts to gauge trustworthiness of media and information. This is the first part of a two-part episode exploring measurement of trustworthiness of media, information, communication, news and even art.   In this episode: 
 U.S. Army propaganda films and analysis of "the sleeper effect" on perception of information source trustworthiness Early Cold War inspired U.S. military industrial complex and Rockefeller Foundation funding of trust measurement amid the Red Scare and McCarthyism Models and methods for scoring and even color-coding trustworthiness of information and news The historical links between "measuring" the aesthetic value of music and art and measuring media trustworthiness Why some trustworthiness measurement methods may not cure news journalism's low trust problem

 People Featured in this Episode: Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator Tosan Atele-Williams, Academic Associate in the Faculty of Business and IT and Computational Trust Researcher at Ontario Tech University Lynn Walsh, Journalist, Assistant Director of Trusting News, Chairwoman of the Society of Professional Journalists' Ethics Committee Matt Skibinski, Newsguard Chief Operating Officer Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance PART ONE Why We Fight: The Battle of BritainU.S. National Archives 1943 Experiments on Mass Communication by Carl I. Hovland, et al. Princeton University Press 1949 The Influence of Source Credibility on Communication Effectiveness by Carl I. Hovland and Walter Weiss The Public Opinion Quarterly Winter, 1951-1952 The Measurement of Trust in Communication Research Part 1 by Paola Pascual-Ferrá Communication Research Trends Wikipedia models of trust workshop paper Investigations into Trust for Collaborative Information Repositories: A Wikipedia Case Study by Deborah L. McGuinness, et al Models of Trust for the Web (MTW'06) 2006 PART TWO Information Trust Model by Tosan Atele-Williams and Stephen Marsh Cognitive Systems Research 2023 Towards a Computational Model of Information Trust by Tosan Atele-Williams and Stephen Marsh Trust Management XIIInternational Federation for Information Processing (IFIP) Advances in Information and Communication Technology (see p. 124) 2018 infoDNA (Version 2) - Agent Enhanced Trustworthy Distributed Information by Stephen Marsh 2004 Aesthetic Measure by George D. Birkhoff 1933 NewsGuard Website Rating Process and Criteria Trust Control Credits Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted. Fake ads and silly satire was voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth Music The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control's home of Portland, Oregon: D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine Charlie Gotgart: bass Steven Francisco: midi keys Octavio Dowling: keys Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify. The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye's personal time and was supported by Oregon State University's Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.