Turning Towards Life - a Thirdspace podcast

How do we discover what brings life and vitality to us? How do we identify and acknowledge the destructive forces within ourselves? Can we approach the complex, ongoing process of discernment with maturity and nuance, avoiding simplistic judgments? And what resources or practices can we trust to guide us through this challenging work? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation 02:57 Our Source for This Week, by Nick Cave 06:05 The Nature of Evil and Human Complexity 08:41 The Inherent Potential for Goodness in Humanity 12:00 The Cosmic Disposition Towards Goodness 14:47 The Duality of Good and Evil in Human Experience 17:45 The Responsibility of Attending to Sorrow 20:46 The Choice to Cultivate Goodness 24:05 The Power of Intentional Living 26:41 The Complexity of Human Relationships 30:01 The Importance of Slowing Down and Reflecting 33:01 Conclusion and Reflection on the Conversation Woven Into Everything I am inclined to believe in a form of intelligence within the universe, as I hold that consciousness or ‘intelligence’  exists throughout everything, that it goes all the way down to the fundamental atomic matter of things. This force, woven into everything - both living and non-living - is inherently good. If we choose, we could call this force God. I view this power as a kind of cosmic disposition that grows, understands, and empathises with us - suffers with us, you might say - and that humans are ‘fractal', as Cormac so beautifully puts it, exemplars or metaphors of the melancholic nature of this God-soaked universe. I believe that evil exists not only within the human heart but also as an external energy separate from us, moving through the world - a nullifying, destructive potency - 'going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it’. We can see it, if we choose, all around us. Yet, we can act as the remedy to this existential predicament by directing our efforts towards the world’s flourishing and away from its destruction, in whatever way we can. It is our duty to attend to the sorrow of the universe - the sorrow of God. Nick Cave from The Red Hand Files Issue # 342 Photo by NASA on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

We are so excited to bring you this episode, which draws on some brilliant writing by Jonah Platt about why we should work to keep on bringing out what is 'implicit' inside us into the world of relationship - making it 'explicit'. In this conversation we tackle the world head on, from the most intimate relationships to the largest scale challenges facing us societally and politically, and we wonder together about the maturity, generosity and boldness it takes for us humans to keep talking and listening to one another. And we talk together about pragmatism - doing what it takes to improve things, rather than falling into trying to avoid certain feelings, or keeping ourselves in familiar territory, or trying to keep things too safe. It's a bold, warm, playful and important conversation - and we are very glad to share it with you. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 05:30 The Importance of Making the Implicit Explicit 10:28 Exploring Resistance to Explicit Communication 15:26 The Role of Patience and Slowing Down 20:09 Navigating Complexity in Relationships 25:22 The Pragmatism of Explicit Communication 30:14 The Risk and Creativity of Sharing Implicit Thoughts Making the Implicit Explicit To achieve clearly understood communication in our relationships, personal, professional, casual, romantic, online, every level of life, it is critical that we remind ourselves to make the implicit explicit. That's the idea. Whatever we assume to be obvious, be it our emotional state, the purpose of an event, or the location of a stapler, we must teach ourselves to assume that it actually is not, and therefore must be stated out loud if we are to be understood.  Why is this important to do? Because the literal opposite is true. What is most obvious to us is generally not obvious to other people, and in fact, they are often making a totally different and wrong assumption than the one you also wrongly assume they are making.  Why does this happen? Well, there are several cognitive biases at work here… Primarily, there's what's called the curse of knowledge. Once we know something, it becomes difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it, so we overestimate how obvious our thoughts or intentions or explanations will be to others.  There's the closely related illusion of transparency, where we overestimate how clearly our internal states, our emotions, thoughts, our sense of morality are visible to others. They're not.  And last, naïve realism, where we assume our perceptions of reality of what's obvious about the world are shared by all. These misalignments happen constantly in our interpersonal lives, and they lead to resentment, misunderstanding, conflict, and harm.  I think at times there are also certain common resistances to being explicit. One… is a sense of, "Well, if you really loved me, you would already know this about me," which is an understandable way to feel, but is really… a failure to communicate.  Another may be a sense of self-respect or maybe self-preservation that warps into a kind of peremptory and self-defeating resentment. "Why should I have to make something explicit just to give you an understanding about me you haven't bothered to ask for?" And the answer to that is, if a greater understanding would be a positive outcome, however it's arrived at, why not just take responsibility to ensure it arrives?  There's also, and I think this is the one that has most prevented me from making the implicit explicit as it pertains to my views on certain public issues, is the sense of not wanting to play the game, of not wanting to debase myself in order to pass somebody's morality test. And also the question of, what does this really change? …  And yet… if playing the game and taking the test opens a door to greater understanding, a door through which perhaps more understanding can then travel through that otherwise might have remained closed, that may in fact be change enough to make the enterprise worthwhile…  So if you've got questions for someone in your life, ask them. Expect that they have questions for you too. Preempt them. Make the implicit explicit. Talk to each other. Talk to each other.  Jonah Platt from ‘Making the Implicit Explicit’  Episode 44 of Jonah’s podcast ‘Being Jewish with Jonah Platt’ Photo by Priscilla Du Preez 🇨🇦 on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

The central work of our lives over the last 15 years or so has been as practicing integral development coaches, and as teachers of this way of guiding and supporting others. In this conversation we explore what it is to be a ‘coach’ in this way, to use our humanity, intelligence, hearts and life force to grow wings and then to help other people grow wings of their own. It’s such a rewarding, life-giving endeavour, and it teaches us ever more about being a person and taking care of others. Join us for an exploration of what ‘guiding people up and out’ might be, with inspiration from a lovely and inspiring poem by Ellie Steel. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction 03:03 Exploring Aliveness: A Central Theme 05:54 Navigating by Aliveness: Insights and Reflections 09:10 The Distinction Between Aliveness and Happiness 11:59 Embracing the Full Spectrum of Human Experience 14:52 Creatures of Creation: Our Relationship with Life 17:55 Intimacy with Existence: The Heart of Aliveness 20:56 The Cost of Control: Reconnecting with Aliveness 27:13 The Dance of Control and Aliveness 30:01 Curiosity as a Pathway to Freedom 33:04 The Nature of Care and Connection Here’s our source for this week: Wings (for Miss) Under her wings I live and grow and against and with the feathers soft and strong that open over the heads of all who reach up guiding up and out until the wings flutter away and we who are not in need grow wings for ourselves and open them up to those without wings Ellie Steel From She Will Soar: Bright, Brave Poems about Freedom by Women (link on Bookstore) Photo by Torianna Marasco on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: coaching, wings metaphor, againstness relationship, growth facilitation, multidirectional holding, self-generating capacity, coaching philosophy, lineage importance, power dynamics, tender development, mutual growth, generative listening, creative holding, leaping ahead, integral development, community practice, dignified support, holding system, personal transformation, growth orientation, generosity practice, wingless to winged People: Ellie Steel (poet who wrote "Wings") Martin Heidegger (philosopher referenced by Lizzie when discussing the concept of "jumping ahead" or "leaping ahead") Cast of the TV Show 'Shrinking'

“The concept that sits right at the heart of a sane and meaningful life,” writes Oliver Burkeman “is something like aliveness.” In this conversation we explore what it is to attend to aliveness, how we might come to notice its presence, and consider steps any of us can take to cultivate it. And we talk about how vital this is in an age where we may find ourselves encouraged in many places to become part of an algorithm - to act in life as if we were machines rather than creative beings who are part of a vast and inherently creative universe. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction 03:03 Exploring Aliveness: A Central Theme 05:54 Navigating by Aliveness: Insights and Reflections 09:10 The Distinction Between Aliveness and Happiness 11:59 Embracing the Full Spectrum of Human Experience 14:52 Creatures of Creation: Our Relationship with Life 17:55 Intimacy with Existence: The Heart of Aliveness 20:56 The Cost of Control: Reconnecting with Aliveness 27:13 The Dance of Control and Aliveness 30:01 Curiosity as a Pathway to Freedom 33:04 The Nature of Care and Connection Here’s our source for this week: The Path of Aliveness The concept that sits right at the heart of a sane and meaningful life, I’m increasingly convinced, is something like aliveness. It goes by other names, too, none of which quite nail it – but it’s the one thing that, so long as you navigate by it, you’ll never go too far wrong. Sometimes it feels like a subtle electrical charge behind what’s happening, or a mildly heightened sense of clarity, or sometimes like nothing I can put into words at all. I freely concede it’s a hopelessly unscientific idea. But I’m pretty sure it’s what Joseph Campbell meant when he said that most of us aren’t really seeking the meaning of life, but rather “an experience of being alive… so that we actually feel the rapture” – although personally I don’t think it’s always rapturous, per se – “of being alive.”In literal terms, of course, “aliveness” can’t be the right word here, because technically everyone’s alive all the time, whereas aliveness comes and goes. Still, I know it when I feel it. And I definitely know it when my misguided efforts to exert too much control over reality cause it to drain away.  And so an excellent question to ask yourself – when you’re facing a tough decision, say, or wondering if you’re on the right track – is: “Does this feel like it’s taking me in the direction of greater aliveness?”Crucially, aliveness isn’t the same as happiness. As the Zen teacher Christian Dillo explains in his engrossing book The Path of Aliveness, you can absolutely feel alive in the midst of intense sadness. Aliveness, he writes, “isn’t about feeling *better*; it’s about *feeling*better.” When I feel aliveness in my work, it’s not because every task is an unadulterated pleasure; and when I feel it in my close relationships, it’s not because I’ve transcended the capacity to get annoyed by other people – because believe me, I haven’t. But to whatever extent I *do* manage what Dillo refers to as fully inhabiting my experience, life is good, in a deep sense, and more vibrant, and I feel more connected to others – and overall, happiness tends to predominate…   I think it might be the key to understanding how to think and feel about AI, how to respond to it, how to integrate it into our lives or not – and how to ensure, as technology marches on, that we don’t lose sight of what really matters for a meaningfully productive life.  Most obviously, aliveness is what generally feels absent from the written and visual outputs of ChatGPT and its ilk, even when they’re otherwise of high quality… It makes you wonder if Wendell Berry had it right when he wrote: “It is easy for me to imagine that the next great division of the world will be between people who wish to live as creatures and people who wish to live as machines.”…  I think it’s good to stay fully, even slightly foolishly, committed to the idea that humans doing human things, with other humans, is and will remain at the vital heart of human existence. Because otherwise what on earth’s the point? Oliver Burkeman The full text of this wonderful post can be found on Oliver’s website ‘The Imperfectionist’, where you can also find out about his books and sign up to his mailing list. Photo by yunona uritsky on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

We make the world, and unmake that which doesn’t serve, by our everyday actions and inactions, our intentional taking care and our turning away. What does it take to have the courage, humility and compassion to attend as fully as we can to the world, to step towards a world we want to live in? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Welcome to Turning Towards Life 02:49 The Joy of Coaching and Community 07:08 Understanding the Shambhala Warrior 12:17 Interconnectedness and Community Resilience 17:08 Humility in Compassionate Action 23:12 The Complexity of Truth and Instant Gratification 28:46 The Call to Action and Hope Here’s our source for this week: Joanna Macy: The Shambhala Warrior Now the time comes when great courage is required of the Shambhala warriors, moral courage and physical courage. That is because they’re going right into the heart of the barbarian’s power to dismantle their power and dismantle their weapons, weapons in every sense of the word. As they make their way into the pits and citadels where the armaments are made, so are they also entering the corridors of power where decisions are made. Now, heed this. The Shambhala warriors know these weapons can be dismantled. That is because they are manomaya, an old word that means “mind-made.” Made by the human mind, they can be unmade by the human mind. The dangers facing us are not fashioned by some satanic deity or by an evil extraterrestrial force or by some immutable preordained fate. These dangers are created by our relationships, our habits, our choices. “So now is the time,” said Chogyal Rinpoche, “for the Shambhala warriors to go into training.” “How do they train?” I asked. “They train in the use of two implements or tools.” “What are they?” I asked, and he held up his hands the way the lamas hold the ritual objects, the dorje and bell, in the great monastic dances of his people. “One,” he said, “is compassion. The other is insight into the radical interdependence of all phenomena. You need both,” he said. “You need compassion because it provides the fuel to move you out where you need to be in order to do what you need to do. It means not being afraid of the suffering of your world. That tool is very hot. By itself it is so hot it can burn you out. So you need the other tool, the insight that reveals the interbeing of all that is. When that dawns in you then you know that this is not a battle between good people and bad people but that the line between good and evil runs through the landscape of every human heart. And you know that we are so interwoven that even our smallest acts have repercussions that ripple through the web of life, beyond our capacity to discern. But that knowing is kind of cool. It can seem at times a bit abstract. That’s why you need the heat of real passion.” From One Earth Sangha Photo by Daniele Levis Pelusi on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

It's never too late to look at our lives, to set out on a new path, to begin the difficult and necessary and life-giving work of changing course, of learning how to bring ourselves in a way that deepens our depth, courage, love, kindness, truthfulness and contribution. It's never too late to learn something, to teach something. It's never too late to live - even in the very last moments of our lives. This conversation, marking the 8th anniversary of Turning Towards Life, takes us into an exploration of who we humans can be to one another, especially when we pay attention, when we remember our capacities to make worlds together, and when we commit to listen to one another with kindness, truthfulness, openness and care. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Celebrating Eight Years of Turning Towards Life 05:48 Introducing the Source: Harold Schulweis 11:57 Personal Reflections on Change and Growth 17:47 The Power of Openness and Change 24:08 The Importance of Dialogue and Disagreement 29:52 Creating a World of Connection and Kindness Here’s our source for this week: It’s never too late The last word has not been spoken the last sentence has not been writ the final verdict is not in. It's never too late  to change my mind  my direction to say 'no' to the past  and 'yes' to the future  to offer remorse to ask and give forgiveness. It is never too late  to start all over again  to feel again  to love again  to hope again. It is never too late  to overcome despair  to turn sorrow into resolve  and pain into purpose. It is never too late to alter my world  not by magic incantations  or manipulations of the cards  or deciphering the stars  but by opening myself  to curative forces buried within  to hidden energies the powers in my interior self. In sickness and in dying,  it is never too late. Living, I teach  Dying, I teach how to face pain and fear. Others observe me, children, adults,  students of life and death  learn from my bearing, my posture,  my philosophy. It is never too late -  Some word of mine, some touch, some caress may be remembered  some gesture may play a role beyond the last  movement of my head and hand. Write it on my epitaph  that my loved ones be consoled. It is never too late. Harold Shulweis Photo by Ümit Bulut on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife People Mentioned: Rabbi Harold Shulweis David Whyte Rainer Maria Rilke Norman Fisher Mary Oliver Maya Stein Rosemary Whatola-Trommer Hollie Holden Naomi Shihab Nye Rebecca Solnit Leo Tolstoy (author of The Death of Ivan Ilyich) Keywords: never late, starting over, forgiveness practice, teaching presence, continuous becoming, habit remaking, interior forces, curative powers, death teaching, final verdict, life ongoingness, changing direction, opening myself, human power, world making, truthful standing, cynicism rejection, spiritual openness, destination pressure, community presence, disagreement kindness, intentional space, learning together, transformative choice, last breath

A conversation about discovering that the entire world around us—the first star breaking through darkness, rain dancing on rooftops, stooping to pick up an acorn—aren't distractions from life's important questions but invitations further into them. That we are never separate from the world, and that there are many ways in which the world is calling to us even when we feel alone. And that rather than retreating from the world to find the answers to our most urgent questions, perhaps we can soften back into contact with what surrounds us as a way into the answers. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:25 Exploring Ingrid's Poetry 06:30 On Ordinary Moments 10:07 Connection to the World Around Us 14:34 Receiving from the World, Finding We Are Not Alone 19:24 Discovering our Non-Separateness Here’s our source for this week: Questions for Discerning What is Timeless and True When mist settles thick on the water as far as the eye can see, may you hold yourself in generosity, and ask what do you endlessly dream? When the first star breaks its light through the darkest evening sky, what is the wish that flutters in the temple of your heart? When rain dances with joy on the roof above your head, what do you feel most grateful for, and for what do you give thanks? When the catbird settles on a branch nearby, tips his head back and sings, what sweet urgency pours from your life into the living, breathing day? When you stoop to pick up an acorn that has fallen along your trail, allow yourself to wonder: what seeds do you plant and grow? When the autumn leaf lifts on a swirling current of wind: what journey are you missing? What adventure do you long to begin? When the present insight slips into the vast eternal realm, what do you still remember in the very bones of your soul? When the morning sun wakes you and asks for your finest gift, what do you pull from your infinity to give and give, and open to, and give? Ingrid Goff-Maidoff ingridgoffmaidoff.com Photo by Lucas van Oort on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: timeless questions, sweet urgency, temple heart, infinity giving, autumn leaf journey, catbird settling, acorn wondering, star breaking light, rain dancing joy, mist settling thick, bones soul memory, morning sun gift, world offering attention, contact receptivity, contracted separation, life calling back, rose smelling presence, ordinary invitations, belonging planet, softening contact, generous participation, separateness fear, social media hysteria, retreat fantasy, bodily contraction, woods walking

'For the sake of what am I doing this?' is the question that animates this week's conversation. For the sake of fitting in? Of having feelings that I want to have? For the sake of serving? Of bringing the unique gifts I have to offer? For the sake of doing the big jobs, the ones that make a difference over the long term - such as pursuing love, justice, peace? Rather than pursuing quick wins that shrink our ambitions, might we find courage to take on impossible jobs and measure our lives not by immediate results but by unwavering dedication to the particular gifts that each of us has to bring? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 04:14 Introducing Parker Palmer and this week’s Source 08:52 The Concept of Faithfulness vs. Effectiveness 15:42 The Challenge of Complex Issues in Life 22:33 Finding Fulfillment Beyond Short-Term Goals Here’s our source for this week: Faithfulness and Effectiveness Take on big jobs worth doing, jobs like the spread of love, peace, and justice. That means refusing to be seduced by our cultural obsession with being effective as measured by short-term results. … Our heroes take on impossible jobs and stay with them for the long haul because they live by a standard that supersedes effectiveness. The name of that standard is "faithfulness" - faithfulness to your gifts, to the needs of the world, and to offering your gifs to whatever needs are within your reach. The tighter we cling to the norm of effectiveness, the smaller the tasks we'll take on, because they are the only ones that get short-term results. Public education is a tragic example. We no longer care about educating children - a big job that's never done. We care only about getting kids to pass tests with measurable results, whether or not those tests measure what matters. In the process, we're crushing the spirits of a lot of good teachers and vulnerable kids: there are millions of kids in this country who long to be treasured, not measured. Care about being effective, of course. But care even more about being faithful, as countless teachers do - faithful to your calling and to the true needs of those entrusted to your care. You won't get the big jobs done in your lifetime. But if, at the end of the road, you can say, "I was faithful", you can check out with a sense of satisfaction. Parker Palmer, from "On the Brink of Everything", p47-48 Photo by Alexey Demidov on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: faithfulness practice, effectiveness obsession, long-term commitment, cultural critique, big jobs worth doing, short-term results, treasured not measured, educational reform, calling dedication, gift recognition, world needs, satisfaction fulfillment, loyalty examination, complex missions, unfinished work, life dedication, cultural metanarratives, social exclusion fear, heart questioning, purpose alignment, decision making clarity, service orientation, love peace justice, parenting faithfulness, recognition limitations, life filling, tribe dedication, spiritual satisfaction, deeper commitment, relationship building, podcast longevity

We are far from powerless… though we often we imagine we are. And neither are we able to control how life goes… though we often long to be able to. Our making ourselves too small or too big rarely serves life. So what would it be to find a way to be in a responsive partnership with life itself - acting into life and then opening ourselves to life’s response, bringing the qualities we have to offer as humans and letting ourselves be changed by what comes? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:50 The Emergence of a Collective Self 06:07 Exploring Uncertainty and Aliveness 09:05 Navigating the Unknown: Embracing Change 11:50 The Dance of Certainty and Uncertainty 15:07 Partnership with Life: Making Our Moves 17:50 The Nature of Human Qualities in Crisis 20:57 Reflective Practice and Self-Discovery 24:00 Being Human in Uncertainty 26:49 Closing Reflections and Gratitude Here’s our source for this week: We look with uncertainty We look with uncertainty beyond the old choices for clear-cut answers to a softer, more permeable aliveness which is every moment at the brink of death; for something new is being born in us if we but let it. We stand at a new doorway, awaiting that which comes… daring to be human creatures, vulnerable to the beauty of existence. Learning to love. Anne Hillman Photo by Karissa Mason on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: uncertainty acceptance, essential qualities, human aliveness, partnership with life, permeable existence, doorway metaphor, vulnerable beauty, reflective practice, present moment awareness, control letting go, death brink living, softness cultivation, new birth allowing, offering making, response receiving, qualities emerging, steadfastness courage, generous heart, human goodness, unpredictability embracing, participation dance, life partnership, essential self, turning towards life, relationship reflection

A conversation about imagination as essential aliveness—and how treating life as purely literal diminishes our humanity. A great human power lies in choosing which story we live from, recognising that even dead ends become part of a larger narrative of redemption. What would change if we approached each day wondering along which secret aqueduct new life might be flowing toward us? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Embracing Life's Multitudes 02:56 Gathering in Community 05:50 Machado’s Poem Last Night as I Was Sleeping 08:58 Imagining New Possibilities 11:59 Turning Towards Joy and Failure 14:53 The Imaginative Act of Being Human 17:47 Finding Connection in Shared Experiences 20:50 The Invitation to Storytelling 23:45 Practicing Presence and Openness Here’s our source for this week: Last night, as I was sleeping       Last night, as I was sleeping, I dreamt -- marvellous error!— that a spring was breaking out in my heart. I said: Along which secret aqueduct, Oh water, are you coming to me, water of a new life that I have never drunk?      Last night, as I was sleeping, I dreamt -- marvellous error!— that I had a beehive here inside my heart. And the golden bees were making white combs and sweet honey from my old failures.      Last night, as I was sleeping, I dreamt -- marvellous error!— that a fiery sun was giving light inside my heart. It was fiery because I felt warmth as from a hearth, and sun because it gave light and brought tears to my eyes.      Last night, as I slept, I dreamt -- marvellous error!— that it was God I had here inside my heart. Antonio Machado English version by Robert Bly Original Language Spanish Photo by Vivek Doshi on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from 10 September 2025 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: marvellous error, secret aqueduct, golden bees, sweet honey, old failures, imaginative capacity, turning towards life, heart opening, sacred aliveness, storytelling power, redemption possibility, fiery warmth, divine presence, new life water, creative interpretation, dream consciousness, life-giving conversation, spiritual recognition, meaning making, transformation language, wonder invitation, possibility thinking, cynicism rejection, literal thinking, narrative choice People Mentioned: Antonio Machado (Spanish poet, author of the poem) Robert Bly (translator of the poem) Roger Housden (author of "Ten Poems to Change Your Life") Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer (podcast host of "Emerging Form") Christie Aschwanden (podcast host of "Emerging Form") Emerging Form Episode 146, Maria Kelson on Switching Genres https://emergingform.substack.com/p/episode-146-maria-kelson-on-switching

We spend so much energy trying to think our way to insight, yet a fuller understanding of our lives often arrives from somewhere beyond the usual way we know ourselves. When our hands are busy with ordinary tasks something vast can sometimes settle into awareness. What happens when we discover that our bodies know a kinship with the earth our minds may have forgotten? Could belonging be less about finding our place and more about recognising we never left it? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to Turning Towards Life 03:03 Exploring the Source: Of Gravity and Light 05:43 The Significance of Menial Tasks 08:47 The Relationship Between Thinking and Receiving 11:45 Belonging and Recognition 14:43 Connection and Community 17:44 The Mystery of Existence and Our Place in It 20:59 The Importance of Acknowledging Our Already Existing Ways of Belonging 23:43 Creating a Sense of Belonging in the World 26:55 Conclusion and Invitations Here’s our source for this week: Of Gravity and Light  What we need most, we learn from the menial tasks: the novice raking sand in Buddhist texts, or sweeping leaves, his hands chilled to the bone, while understanding hovers out of reach; the changeling in a folk tale, chopping logs, poised at the dizzy edge of transformation; and everything they do is gravity: swaying above the darkness of the well to haul the bucket in; guiding the broom; finding the body’s kinship with the earth beneath their feet, the lattice of a world where nothing turns or stands outside the whole; and when the insight comes, they carry on with what’s at hand: the gravel path; the fire; knowing the soul is no more difficult than water, or the fig tree by the well that stood for decades, barren and inert, till every branch was answered in the stars. John Burnside Photo by Merri J on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from 10 September 2025 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords menial tasks, ordinary moments, body kinship, earth connection, belonging fully, inner mystery, thinking patterns, gravity metaphor, physical presence, everyday insights, transformation edge, soul simplicity, cultural belonging, human mystery, inclusion practice, overthinking habits, fearful analysis, mindful walking, dish washing, leaf sweeping, grounded presence, mysterious depths, embodied wisdom, life belonging, earthly home People Mentioned John Burnside - The poet whose work "Of Gravity and Light" is discussed throughout the episode

What if we recognised that every single thing we do - and everything we avoid doing - is quietly shaping us into the kind of person we're becoming? A conversation about discovering that we're already practising something all the time, whether we realise it or not, and that our choices about where to place our attention might be more consequential than we imagine. What would it mean to get good at the things that truly matter to us, or to surprise and widen ourselves by practicing new things that are outside of our familiar, comfortable range? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:21 The Importance of Time and Choices 05:37 Practicing What Matters: Insights from Chloe Caldwell 10:08 The Impact of Our Practices on Our Lives 15:07 Awareness of Time and Intentions 19:09 The Role of Social Media in Shaping Us 24:28 Exploring New Practices and Joyful Experimentation 32:32 The Value of External Perspectives on Our Practices 38:01 Conclusion and Reflection on Our Practices Here’s our source for this week: You Get Good at What You Do My dad passed away last December, and he was in the top three closest people to me over my life. He used to have a phrase he used with his guitar students: “You get good at what you do. If you practice guitar, you get really good at guitar. If you don’t practice, you get really good at not practicing.” I love this phrase because you can apply it to every single thing in life, in ways both literal and abstract. If you write, you get good at writing If you look at Instagram, you get good at looking at Instagram. If you walk, you get good at walking. If you swim, you get good at swimming. If you write, you get good at writing. If you don’t write, you get really good at not writing. If you look at Instagram, you get REALLY good at looking at Instagram. I think my dad’s lesson seeped into my brain from hearing him say it so much. It wasn’t advice as much as a notion. Now I pass it along to my students and think about it once a day. It seems simple and like something we all know, logically, but the way it is phrased really drives it home. When he died, one of his guitar students wrote, “Rob was good at love and music. It’s what he did.” Chloé Caldwell via Cheryl Strayed’s Substack Photo by Majkl Velner on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from 10 September 2025 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords practising consciousness, attention choices, time dedication, intentional living, habit formation, social media impact, parenting practices, body movement, dance therapy, five rhythms, creative experimentation, relationship awareness, coaching practice, value alignment, present moment, death awareness, guitar teaching, love practice, Instagram scrolling, screen time, movement practice, flexible being, meeting world, self observation, community feedback, practice visibility, tender awareness, blind spots, coaching skills, professional development, turning towards life People Mentioned Cheryl Strayed Chloé Caldwell The Rock (Dwayne Johnson)

How do we attend to the something in each of us that longs to break free through the cracks of our self-image? A conversation about discovering that sacred uniqueness within ourselves and others in the everyday mundane acts of living, loving, working and being genuinely present with one another. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:50 The Singing Bird: A Poetic Exploration 06:03 Longing and Creativity: Uncovering the Singing Bird 08:57 The Unique Expression of Each Of Us 12:00 Navigating Self-Criticism and Inquiry 14:50 Vulnerability and Authenticity in Relationships 18:07 Embracing the Messiness of Life 21:08 The Complexity of Human Experience 23:56 The Interconnectedness of Our Stories 26:50 The Importance of Community and Conversation 30:02 Conclusion and Looking Ahead Here’s our source for this week: The Singing Bird The singing bird I have a hundred ways  Of keeping the singing bird Pushed down, Hidden,  Anaesthetised, Comfort-numb, Silenced.  But I have learned  How easily she  Can break free And Sing Anyway.  She sneaks out  Through the cracks That get made  By laughter And poetry And art And honesty And dancing And sunshine.  I wonder if you know  The ways you keep the singing bird Quiet?  And if you know how to forget yourself  So that she can sneak out And remind you of the song  You’ve always wanted to sing. Hollie Holden Photo by Lukáš Kadava on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from 17 September 2025 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here. ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords singing bird, creative expression, authentic presence, vulnerability sharing, sacred uniqueness, forget yourself, honest presence, creative practice, inner critic, right sizing, vast universe, cultural expectations, sacred something, judgement softening, unfolding process, kerfuffle acceptance, contactful being, depth confidence, whoness discovery, messy glory, genuine presence, practical spirituality, learning process, turning towards life, creative longing, existential wondering People Mentioned Hollie Holden (author of this week's source)

We mistake ourselves for the stories we've been told and the ones we keep telling. But what if those stories are too small to contain who we really are? A conversation about discovering that the more we open our hearts to the world, the less we actually know about anything—and how this not knowing might be exactly where freedom lives. What happens when we stop trying to figure everything out and instead give ourselves fully to the mystery of being human? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Context Setting 06:26 Exploring Rilke's 'Widening Circles' 12:16 The Journey of Discovery 18:53 Embracing Uncertainty and Complexity 24:10 Faithfulness in the Face of Not Knowing 30:30 Invitation to Community and Practice Here’s our source for this week: Widening Circles I live my life in widening circles that reach out across the world. I may not complete this last one but I give myself to it. I circle around God, around the primordial tower. I’ve been circling for thousands of years and I still don’t know: am I a falcon, a storm, or a great song? Rainer Maria Rilke Translated by Joanna Macy Photo by Alan Mersom on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from September 2025 We also have the launch of our Turning Towards Life live programme which is going to run in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can register your interest for Season 1 of Turning Towards Life Live here. ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords widening circles, spiritual unknowing, faithful presence, identity stories, cultural certainty, mysterious reality, spiritual practice, contemplative conversation, human complexity, sacred listening, deepening awareness, creative response, genuine unknowing, expanding compassion, spiritual freedom, mystical faithfulness, embodied wisdom, relational depth, authentic encounter, philosophical openness, contemplative dialogue, life-giving practice, spiritual attention, transformative conversation, primordial mystery People Mentioned Rainer Maria Rilke (poet who wrote "Widening Circles") Joanna Macy (translator of the Rilke poem) Maya Angelou (poet, mentioned from previous week's episode - "Phenomenal Women") Richard Rorty (philosopher, pragmatism) James Hollis (Jungian writer)

What happens when we choose to actively shape our own identity rather than only accept the stories handed down to us? How might we practice distinguishing between what belongs to us and what we've been told we should be? What becomes possible when we see ourselves as authors of our own ways of being in life? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to the Conversation 03:18 Reading Maya Angelou's 'Phenomenal Woman' 08:01 Exploring Identity 11:07 The Invitation of Authenticity 16:03 Rejecting the Algorithm: Embracing Authorship 21:16 The Inquiry into Who We Might Be 26:25 Finding Belonging in Authenticity 30:01 The Call to Pay Attention to Life Here’s our source for this week: Phenomenal Woman Pretty women wonder where my secret lies. I’m not cute or built to suit a fashion model’s size But when I start to tell them, They think I’m telling lies. I say, It’s in the reach of my arms, The span of my hips, The stride of my step, The curl of my lips. I’m a woman Phenomenally. Phenomenal woman, That’s me. I walk into a room Just as cool as you please, And to a man, The fellows stand or Fall down on their knees. Then they swarm around me, A hive of honey bees. I say, It’s the fire in my eyes, And the flash of my teeth, The swing in my waist, And the joy in my feet. I’m a woman Phenomenally. Phenomenal woman, That’s me. Men themselves have wondered What they see in me. They try so much But they can’t touch My inner mystery. When I try to show them, They say they still can’t see. I say, It’s in the arch of my back, The sun of my smile, The ride of my breasts, The grace of my style. I’m a woman Phenomenally. Phenomenal woman, That’s me. Now you understand Just why my head’s not bowed. I don’t shout or jump about Or have to talk real loud. When you see me passing, It ought to make you proud. I say, It’s in the click of my heels, The bend of my hair, the palm of my hand, The need for my care. ’Cause I’m a woman Phenomenally. Phenomenal woman, That’s me. Maya Angelou Photo by Chris on Unsplash ---- Join Us Live in 2025 Turning Towards Life Live Season 1, from September 2025 We also have the launch of our Turning Towards Life live programme which is going to run in six month seasons from September. It's going to be in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can register your interest for Season 1 of Turning Towards Life Live here. ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords phenomenal woman, inner mystery, self-making beings, authentic choices, conditioned narratives, cultural expectations, embodied identity, ancestral patterns, algorithmic conformity, gender stereotypes, truthful living, belonging to life, mysterious aliveness, elder wisdom, fierce invitation, active authorship, realness inquiry, powerful presence, liberation permission, identity deviation, life-giving stories, genuine aliveness, source of power, community belonging, truthful emergence