Two by Two

In the first episode of season two of Two by Two, we unpack India’s evolving economic story at a pivotal moment—amid global uncertainty and rising US tariff threats that some have dubbed India’s "second 1991 moment."We break down the promise and illusion of India’s economic outlook across two critical dimensions: macroeconomics and markets.The narrative of GDP growth powered by rising productivity is enticing. India stands alone as a large economy where labour, capital, and productivity are all expanding. We explore concerns around job creation, stagnant manufacturing, and deeper structural threats—from AI to climate change.In the markets, domestic money is driving one of the most expensive equity valuations in the world, comparable to that of the US. But beneath the surface lies a more cautious picture: foreign investors are staying neutral, while insiders are cashing out at record levels.From booming inflows into financials to valuation resets in staples and foreign scepticism around consumer discretionary.Whether you’re bullish on India or wary of the froth, this episode challenges assumptions and brings a clearer picture to the contradictions shaping the country's economic future.Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar for the discussion are Aditya Suresh, head of India equity research at Macquarie, and Seetharaman G, deputy editor at The Ken and resident expert on all things retail, joining the discussion.Welcome to Two by Two.-Additional reading:‘Make in India’ is a tariff-war sticker job - https://the-ken.com/newsletter/make-india-competitive-again/make-in-india-is-a-tariff-war-sticker-job/Stop hating on China. Embrace it - https://the-ken.com/newsletter/make-india-competitive-again/stop-hating-on-china-embrace-it/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Join Rohin and Praveen as they celebrate the one-year anniversary of the 2x2 podcast, reflecting on 52 episodes of business and strategy discussions. This special ‘vibes’ episode looks back at their journey creating Two by Two, the evolution of the show, and future plans, deviating from their usual topic-focused format.Praveen shares key meta-narratives he picked from the past year, including a "desperation-driven convergence" where companies like Flipkart and Phonepe try to become each other. He also highlights themes such as the government shaping markets as a "competitor" or through "artificial constraints", and a "great career existential crisis" impacting roles from engineers to marketers. Other themes include the "destruction and retreat of big tech in India", the podcast's contrarian framing of topics, and a focus on India's "livability crisis", addressing issues like urban infrastructure and air pollution.We’d love to hear what you think about Two by Two as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

In 2016, Mukesh Ambani stood on stage and made a promise that seemed impossible. Jio would give away data virtually free and still build a profitable business. The telecom industry laughed. Six years later, Jio had 450 million subscribers and had driven three major competitors into extinction or merger.Now imagine that same playbook applied to your money.Last year, when Jio partnered with BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager with over $10 trillion under management, most people saw it as just another foreign partnership. But here's what they missed.India's mutual fund industry manages around 50 trillion rupees. And yet, only 3-4% of Indians have ever invested in a mutual fund. That's 1.3 billion people whose savings are locked in fixed deposits, gold, and real estate, earning returns that barely keep pace with inflation.To put this in perspective, Americans invest approximately 55% of their savings in financial markets, whereas Indians invest around 3-4%.That gap represents the single largest wealth creation opportunity in the world.Blackrock's Larry Fink knows this, Jio's Mukesh Ambani knows this.And more importantly, they know something that the incumbents don't want to admit: that India's investment industry is ripe for the kind of disruption that decimated the telecom sector.Because what's bigger than one 800-pound gorilla? Two 800-pound gorillas.Zerodha*, India's largest broker, has 15 million users. That's very impressive, until you realise that Jio adds that many telecom subscribers in a single quarter. The entire Indian mutual fund industry has 40 million unique investors.Jio has more customers in just Mumbai.And unlike telecom, where Jio could simply outspend and outlast its competitors, financial services are about trust, not just technology.You may switch your phone carrier for cheaper data, but will you hand over your life savings to the same company that provides your internet?In today’s episode, we are asking the question that's keeping every person working in financial services across mutual funds and brokerages awake at night.Can Jio BlackRock do to investing in wealth what Jio did to telecom?Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar for the discussion are Manish Jain, co-founder and CPO of Sahi Broking. Manish previously served as the head of product at Fisdom and was the SVP of product and digital transformation at Kotak Securities, and Nirav Karkera, who's the head of research at Fisdom, a leading fintech platform for wealth management.Welcome to episode 52 of Two by Two.-Additional reading:The motley crowd joining the great Indian mutual-fund rush….- https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/the-motley-crowd-joining-the-great-indian-mutual-fund-rush/Jio Blackrock is not your usual Reliance offensive- https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/jio-blackrock-is-not-your-usual-reliance-offensive/Additional listening:Can Smallcase maintain its relevance in a changing market?- https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-smallcase-maintain-its-relevance-in-a-changing-market/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

In an unprecedented crackdown, India’s capital markets regulator SEBI has fined the global trading giant Jane Street over ₹4,800 crore, accusing it of systematically manipulating the Indian equity options market. The penalty—one of the largest ever imposed by SEBI—stemming from an investigation into just 21 trading days, could expand significantly, with potential illicit gains estimated between ₹30,000 and ₹40,000 crore still under review.First reported by Anand Kalyanaraman, The Ken’s finance editor, the case centres on Jane Street’s alleged use of “violent expiry” tactics: buying large positions in call or put options and then executing disproportionate trades in the cash segment of the Sensex or Nifty to sway index levels in their favour. On other days, they profited from “quiet expiry” strategies by offloading options to retail investors, extracting premiums in a manner which signals towards “telltale manipulation” devoid of any economic rationale.The fallout strikes at the core of India’s derivatives-heavy market. With over 80% of global equity options contracts (by volume) traded daily in India, the segment has become a high-risk zone for retail participants—90% of whom reportedly lost money between FY2021 and FY2024, racking up collective losses of ₹1.8 lakh crore. The lottery-like appeal of low-cost, high-reward bets has turned into a trap for many.Jane Street has defended its actions as “basic index arbitrage”. The firm is likely to challenge the ban, even as SEBI continues to scrutinise a broader timeline of trades.Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by Anand Kalyanaraman, The Ken’s finance editor and Mayank Bansal, President of a UAE-based hedge fund, who helped break the story, to discuss how all of this played out and what happens next.Welcome to episode 51 of Two by Two.-Additional readingIs Jane Street the all-powerful hidden hand in India’s stock market? - https://the-ken.com/story/is-jane-street-the-all-powerful-hidden-hand-in-indias-stock-market/The mystery fund playing god and wreaking havoc on the stock market - https://the-ken.com/story/the-mystery-fund-playing-god-and-wreaking-havoc-on-the-stock-market/Did NSE sleep at the wheel in the Jane Street Saga? - https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/did-nse-sleep-at-the-wheel-in-the-jane-street-saga/-Check out The Ken's new careers podcast, 90,000 hours:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5HEi59iUPRMMFfUvxeio47Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/90-000-hours/id1826777519-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

In the 50th episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan examine the contrasting open-source trajectories of China, the US, and India in the context of AI, and where India fell short.While China, despite being authoritarian, has surged ahead in open-source AI leadership with models like DeepSeek R1, India has fallen behind. The 2010s are framed as a “lost decade” for Indian open source, characterised by a vibrant tech ecosystem that failed to foster a meaningful contribution culture.China’s rise can be attributed to its unique mix of strategic intent, creative insecurity (following the Huawei ban in 2019), and human capital. It views open source as a geopolitical tool, not a philosophy. India, by contrast, is stuck in a “third way”—neither as open and capitalistic as the US nor as strategically pragmatic as China.What would it take for Indian to do the same?Bring academia to the forefront, fund open source efforts without restrictions, and build a developer culture driven by curiosity, not just career advancement. Open source needs to be viewed more broadly than just code—it’s an innovation infrastructure and a form of digital autonomy. Without this shift, India risks missing the AI bus entirely.And joining them for the discussion are two wonderful guests.Pranay Kotasthane is deputy director at the Takshashila Institution and chairs its High Tech Geopolitics Programme. He co-writes Anticipating the Unintended, a newsletter on public policy ideas and frameworks, and co-hosts Puliyabaazi, a popular Hindi-Urdu podcast on politics, policy, and technology.Kailash Nadh is the CTO of Zerodha*. Kailash calls himself a developer, tinkerer and absurdist. Kailash is a hobbyist developer who has been working on open source projects for the last 25 years.-Additional reading:Why China is giving away its tech for free - https://www.economist.com/business/2025/06/17/why-china-is-giving-away-its-tech-for-freeAnticipating the Unintended (newsletter) - https://publicpolicy.substack.com/Deepseek, AI sovereignty, and India - https://nadh.in/blog/deepseek-ai-sovereignty-india/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.-*Zerodha’s perennial fund Rainmatter Capital is an investor in The Ken.

Microsoft, Amazon, Google, GS, JP Morgan Chase, Deloitte, Walmart, Bosch, Adobe, Target, Salesforce, AstraZeneca.What’s common to these dozen organisations? Other than the fact that they are, well, large, well-respected and innovative?They all operate their own development and innovation centres in India. Often sprawling campuses and offices across multiple cities, filled with Indian engineers, project managers, product experts, designers, HR, finance and, well, virtually every function that’s required to run a business.They’re called GCCs. Global Capability Centres.There are over 1,000 global organisations that collectively operate over 1,700 GCCs across India. They employ over 2 million professionals. They generate over $40 billion in annual value, set to surpass $100 billion in another five years.So, what’s the problem?Well, most GCCs are technically doing work that could have been outsourced to Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, etc. In fact, GCCs are so successful a strategy that they’re growing much faster than Indian outsourcers.And as if taking away potential revenue from Indian outsourcers weren’t enough, GCCs are now also taking away talent. That’s right. They’re hiring experienced and talented professionals using higher salaries, better brands and the promise of better work.It appears to be a zero-sum game. A pie that isn’t growing.Both our guests for today’s episode are experts on GCCs, and they had a lot to say about the same. Our first guest is Narayana Ramamurthy, whom you’ll hear us address as ‘Naru’ throughout the discussion. Naru is the founder and CEO of Workfutr, a company which enables US and European organisations to harness India's offshore capability in technology, operations, and transformation. And our second guest is Karthik Padmanabhan, who is the managing partner for GCCs at Zinnow, a global management and consulting firm founded in 2002 that partners and advises global enterprises, outsourcers, PE firms around AI, automation, outsourcing and well, GCCs.Welcome to episode 49 of Two by Two.-Additional reading:ANSR’s Ahuja duo on why “everybody, from Victoria’s Secret to Google, will do pretty much the same thing in India” - https://the-ken.com/story/ansrs-ahuja-duo-on-why-everybody-from-victorias-secret-to-google-will-do-pretty-much-the-same-thing-in-india/GCCs could pose a potential threat to Indian IT - https://analyticsindiamag.com/gcc/gccs-could-pose-a-potential-threat-to-indian-it/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Meesho, Rapido, and Zepto have managed to challenge what seemed like firmly established duopolies, such as Amazon and Flipkart, Uber and Ola, and Blinkit and Swiggy Instamart, respectively.The third-place player trying to break the duopoly with its ‘challenger DNA’ came in and caught up with the incumbents by targeting the unserved or underserved markets they overlooked, innovation, be it through providing a zero commission platform for sellers, delivering groceries in minutes or connecting drivers to riders based on a subscription model.But what other factors cause this disruption in these duopolies?A critical factor enabling these new entrants is often incumbent complacency combined with venture capital pressures in India, which push established players towards short-term profits over broader market expansion.In episode 48 of Two by Two, we discuss how these disruptors came about, and based on their journey, can we observe other such disruptive third players in India?Joining hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan was Professor Rajendra Srivastava, former dean at the Indian School of Business and presently the executive director at the ISB Centre for Business Innovation.–Additional reading:Does your company have an India strategy – https://hbr.org/2023/06/does-your-company-have-an-india-strategyWhy Indigo Airlines may be India’s best export to the world after cricket and bollywood? – https://medium.com/@rks_72086/why-indigo-airlines-may-be-indias-best-export-to-the-world-after-cricket-and-bollywood-5beb92182343Market-based assets and shareholder value – https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/002224299806200102Peripheral Vision: Detecting the Weak Signals that Will Make or Break Your Company written by George S. Day and Paul J. H. Schoemaker (recommended by Professor Shrivastava)The Rule of Three: Surviving and Thriving in Competitive Markets written by Jagdish Sheth and Rajendra Sisodia (recommended by Professor Shrivastava)Additional listening:Is Zepto a gold medallist or a bronze medallist? – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-zepto-a-gold-medalist-or-a-bronze-medalist/Vidit Aatrey on building a problem-first mindset into Meesho’s culture – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/first-principles/vidit-aatrey-on-building-a-problem-first-mindset-into-meeshos-culture/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Welcome to the year-end special edition of Two by Two.We’ve released 22 episodes of Two by Two since our inaugural edition in July. We’ve covered an incredible breadth of counterintuitive topics framed as, well, two by twos. Would Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe became Flipkart? Did Delhi prick Bengaluru’s bubble? Is the golden era of the software engineer over? Why is health insurance broken? How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? Why is Zepto behaving like a gold medallist? Can venture capitalists do no wrong? Dmart versus the challengers at the gates. AI and the impending disruption of Indian SaaS. We’ve had incredible fun exploring these ideas with a bunch of really sharp, experienced and opinionated guests. Finding guests who don’t hesitate to speak their minds and state unpopular truths has been one of the hardest things. Far, far tougher than finding interesting topics. We owe all our guests a huge thanks for trusting us. Far too many professionals and leaders prefer to stick to rehearsed and predictable talking points in public these days.We’d started Two by Two with the ambition to operate at the intersection of curiosity and synthesis. Each week, we said we’d spot the hidden connections and unasked questions. We’d identify the cast of players and their motivations. We’d bring in incredible people to discuss these with. We’d try to answer simple yet fundamental questions like, what is going on, why is it happening, who gains and who loses, and where is all of this leading to?By always asking questions. Always connecting the dots. Always being unfiltered and uninhibited.We wanted Two by Two to be ‘your personal investigative brain’. In 2025 we hope to make Two by Two even more interesting and unpredictable. Yes, at its core it will still be a weekly podcast. But I’m excited at the possibility of doing so much more by involving our subscribers, listeners and readers in these endeavours. We want to make Two by Two ‘our collective investigative brain’. And hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan will continue to do so with a new episode every Thursday.To listen to all episodes of Two by Two, consider subscribing to The Ken’s Premium plan, which in addition to the podcast, will also get you access to our long-form stories, Premium newsletters and visual stories.If you just want access to Two by Two, you can do that as well on Apple Podcasts with a paid subscription.Two by Two is also a free weekly newsletter published every Friday. You can sign up for it here. Listen to all Two by Two episodes here:1. Will Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe becomes Flipkart? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/will-flipkart-become-phonepe-before-phonepe-becomes-flipkart/2. Why has all the excitement and disruption gone out of startups? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/why-has-all-the-excitement-and-disruption-gone-out-of-startups/3. Is Zepto a gold medallist or a bronze medallist? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-zepto-a-gold-medalist-or-a-bronze-medalist/4. Delhi pricked the Bengaluru bubble - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/delhi-pricked-the-bangalore-bubble/5. Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/6. Is the golden era of the (software) engineer over? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-the-golden-era-of-the-software-engineer-over/7. Google Pay: Big. Successful. Vulnerable - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/google-pay-big-successful-vulnerable/8. Private coaching is eating away at schooling - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/private-coaching-is-eating-away-at-schooling/9. Why Stripe could not become the Stripe of India? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/why-couldnt-stripe-become-the-stripe-of-india/10. Health insurance in India is ripe for disruption - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/health-insurance-is-ripe-for-disruption/11. Netflix and its last growth market - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/netflixs-last-growth-market/12. Ather Energy was a pioneer. Can it also be a leader? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/ather-energy-was-a-pioneer-can-it-also-be-a-leader/13. Do we even need Product Managers? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/do-we-even-need-product-managers/14. How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/how-will-ola-and-uber-avoid-death-by-a-thousand-cuts/15. The relentless rise of the government as a competitor - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/the-relentless-rise-of-the-government-as-a-competitor/16. What does the future hold for Ola Electric? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/what-does-ola-electrics-future-hold/17. Can venture capitalists do no wrong? - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-venture-capitalists-do-no-wrong/18. Dmart versus the challengers at the gate - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/dmart-versus-the-challengers-at-the-gate/19. Marketing is eating itself from the inside - https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/marketing-is-eating-i...

Happy Deepavali, dear listeners!On account of Deepavali, the Two by Two team is also taking a small break. But don't worry; we'll be back with our regular programming next week.Until then, you can always listen to past episodes of Two by Two that you haven't gotten around to yet. If you're a Premium subscriber listening to this on The Ken’s mobile app or on Apple podcasts, you can just scroll down and listen to any of our episodes in their full, unedited form. On the other hand, if you aren’t a premium subscriber yet, you can listen to one of our older episodes which we’ve unlocked for you. In fact, in the latest unlocked episode, we argue, debate, and discuss what Netflix needs to do to win in its last growth market — India.Netflix's last growth market. (Full republished episode for free users available on Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | Youtube)By the way, if you’re in the mood for something other than two-by-twos and business models, why don’t you head over to Daybreak, The Ken’s daily podcast?Just last week, our colleagues Snigdha and Rahel did an amazing episode where they spoke to multiple people to understand why women freeze their eggs.Successful women are freezing their eggs. And that's on men. (Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | YouTube Music)If you have suggestions for potential future episodes, we’re all ears. We’re also all ears if you have recommendations for interesting guests we can invite to the show—guests who know their stuff and aren’t afraid to speak their minds, even if it goes against conventional wisdom. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

We have unlocked the full and unedited subscriber version of episode six which we released on September 26 for Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken’s app and on Apple Podcasts. Now you can stream the full episode on Spotify, Amazon Music , Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts for free for a few weeks.Netflix is trying hard to crack the Indian market. Ever since the US streaming giant entered the country it has been hard at work to make an impact. And over the years they’ve learnt a thing or two about how the Indian streaming space functions.Netflix is also not shy about expressing how it sees India as its last growth market. Most of the other geographies it has saturated its reach to a large extent, but India has always been a pain point for it to get a leg up on. So much so, that the then CEO, Reed Hastings expressed his frustration about why they weren’t able to crack India during an earnings call in 2022.But from then to now, Netflix has managed an interesting turnaround by climbing down the pricing ladder on its subscriptions in India, even as it raises its prices in North America, and throwing in a somewhat limited regional and diversified slate of shows into the mix.But Netflix is clear on one thing, it sees India as its last growth market and expects to add 100 million paying subscribers in the country. But for that to happen it has to put in a lot more work and now it faces the added pressure of competing with the merged entity of Jio Cinema and Disney+ Hotstar which would create a mammoth of a content library stacked with regional content, endless range of movies and prestige television,  and the massive distributional heft Jio brings to the table.All of this begs the question, given the situation, how seriously is Netflix looking at India as its last growth market?To discuss this, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Kunj Sanghvi who is the Content and Creative Head at Kuku FM, and Nishad Kenkre, who presently is an Operating Partner at Verlinvest. Nishad has previously worked at Swiggy and was also Director and Head of Strategy at Disney.Welcome to episode 11 of Two by Two.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday a short storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.(Listen to the free highlights only episode on Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts)Further reading:Netflix house will let you experience your favorite shows, movies in real lifeNetflix climbs down India’s ladderFurther listening:Why couldn’t Stripe become the Stripe of India?This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.New episodes are released every Thursday. So follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and tell us what you think of the show.

What happens when the government plays the role of regulator, policymaker, and operator?The government has played a pivotal role in establishing and promoting Digital Public Goods (DPG) and Digital Public Infrastructure (DPI) in the past decade and a half, and there have been a few which have been integral in our daily lives in more ways than one.The reason why these solutions exist is plain and simple: There emerged companies which disrupted the landscape of finance, commerce, mobility and a whole lot of other aspects of our lives, but as they gained prominence, they also started to play by their own rules.The regulator was not able to act fast enough in most cases to keep things in check. So the government intervened and helped establish and promote solutions which would keep things in check and protect the interests of all the parties involved.Some solutions literally changed the way our day-to-day lives are, and created businesses which are built on top of these solutions. Think UPI, ONDC or Bharat Connect (formerly known as Bharat Bill Payment System).In addition to creating and shaping these systems, frameworks, or protocols, these government-backed players, or GBPs, as we referred to them in this episode, also became competitors in what they had helped build, which begs the question: What kind of system does this shape up to be?In episode 15 of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Anupam Manur, Professor of Economics at The Takshashila Institution, to break down the interventionist solutions championed by the government. From UPI and ONDC to the Unified Lending Interface.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday, a short, storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.Additional listening:Google Pay: Big. Successful. VulnerableAdditional reading:You need to download Digiyatra again. But it’s less about a tech upgrade and more about a scamRBI is competing with its regulated entities — and killing competition-This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.New episodes are released every Thursday. So follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think of the show.Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com, and tell us what you thought of the episode. Want to attend The Ken’s next event—How AI is Breaking and Remaking the Way Products are Built?🎟️ Join us in person or on the livestream—tickets here

We have unlocked the full and unedited subscriber version of episode six, which we released on September 19th for Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken’s app and on Apple Podcasts. Now, you can stream the full episode on Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts for free for a few weeks.The fastest growing segment of insurance in India is individual health insurance. It’s growing steadily at a, well, healthy pace of 20% annually. But scratch just a little beneath the surface and things don’t appear so rosy. Of the 20% annual growth in revenue, nearly 15% comes from medical inflation. Meaning, existing customers paying higher premiums each year because the costs of treatments are going up.The growth in the number of customers each year is just around 5-6%. Health insurance in India is broken from top to bottom. 70-75% of Indians have no health insurance. Of those who do, the largest chunk have free or low cost insurance provided by the government, followed by usually employer provided group insurance. Less than 10% Indians have their own health insurance. Scratch that. It’s more accurate to call it hospitalization insurance, not health insurance. Because the industry has developed in a way that incentivizes catastrophic illnesses and hospitalization and treatment, not health. Why, you wonder? Because much of the industry wrongly incentivizes, for legacy reasons, all the wrong things. Like, large groups that make lots of claims. High commissions to distributors. Expensive procedures. Expensive premiums. Instead of incentivising the right things. Like, getting the young and healthy covered early on. Insuring blue collar workers. Building products customers actually want. And most importantly, staying healthy.So when hosts Praveen Gopal Krishna and Rohin Dharmakumar sat down to discuss this complex topic, they decided to invite two guests who had the experience and candour to tell them what needs to change. Our first guest is Viren Shetty, the Executive Vice Chairman of one of India’s largest hospital groups, the listed Narayana Health. was our first guest. Viren has also been spearheading Narayana Health’s foray into providing its own health insurance, built to address many of the gaps I spoke about earlier.Our second guest is Shivaprasad Krishnan. Shivaprasad currently runs an investment banking firm, Kricon Capital, but was a part of the founding team at ICICI Lombard, one of India’s first private health insurers. He also has over 3 decades of experience in finance and management.This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Sound engineering and mixing is by Rajiv C N.You can listen to full episodes either with a Premium subscription to The Ken or by subscribing to Two by Two Premium on Apple Podcasts.If you enjoyed listening to this episode of Two by Two or have some thoughts that you’d like to share with us you can always write to us twobytwo@the-ken.com. We’ll be back next week with a new episode for you.

Ola and Uber are in a “late stage duopoly”.After spending billions and billions of dollars, they have finally secured pole positions in ride sharing in India.Both of these companies together control 70% of the market and they have created network effects that make it much harder for anyone to enter and compete with them.However, this particular situation is facing some new challenges and just like how Uber and Ola conquered city after city using a disruptive model and technology, the same thing threatens to happen to them.Ola and Uber are facing structural disruptions from multiple fronts in India.And in today’s episode hosts, Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar try to answer how the disruptors are getting disrupted by upstarts who are coming in with both business model innovation and newer fleets which offer a significantly better experience, which was the original promise of Ola and Uber as well.So what is the next stage of disruption in ride-hailing look like in India? Is it EV fleets? Is it democratized tech-enabler platforms like ONDC which enables platforms like Nammayatri? Are we looking at the return of local taxi operators? And most importantly, what should Ola and Uber do to defend their position as new incentive models are introduced for both drivers and passengers?Welcome to episode 14 of Two by Two.Joining the hosts for the discussion are Nilesh Sangoi, CIO of Fincare Small Finance Bank, previously CEO of Meru Cabs; Pradeep Puranam, Head of Revenue and Operations at Yulu, ex-Udaan and -Uber; and returning guest Professor Srinivasan R, who teaches Strategy at IIM Bangalore.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday a short storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.Additional listening:Will Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe becomes Flipkart?Additional reading:Rapido rips up the Uber-Ola playbook for cabsThis episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.New episodes are released every Thursday. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think of the show.Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com, and tell us what you thought of the episode. Want to attend The Ken’s next event—How AI is Breaking and Remaking the Way Products are Built?🎟️ Join us in person or on the livestream—tickets here

[This episode which we released on September 12 for Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken’s app and on Apple Podcasts is now available to listen for free for a limited time. Stream the full episode on Spotify, Amazon Music , Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.]It seems like ‘invite only’ is a rite of passage for Stripe. If Stripe entered India with an invite-only step, then it seems reasonable to assume that it’s leaving India on the basis that it’s doing invite-only again. Over seven years, Stripe, the world’s mightiest fintech, currently valued at $70 billion (and at $95 billion at its peak), could not make a dent in India. It had a great product, a massive untapped opportunity in India, and didn’t have much competition. And yet, it failed. Why? There’s an internet quip that was quite popular until recently. The Amazon of China is Alibaba, the Uber of China is Didi, and the Google of China is Baidu, the Apple of China is Xiaomi. In India, the thinking was : Amazon of India is Amazon, the Uber of India is Uber, the Google of India is Google, and the Apple of India is Apple. In today’s episode of  Two by Two, we discussed why Stripe couldn’t become the Stripe of India.And to discuss this, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan Rohin Dharmakumar were joined by two guests.Arundhati Ramanathan, Deputy Editor at The Ken. Arundhati is India’s preeminent Fintech reporter, and she’s demonstrated it over a career of 8 years at The Ken.Our second guest is Vikram Bhat. Vikram is one of India’s most accomplished Product leaders, he was in product leadership roles at Myntra, Abof, Ekstep Foundation, LendingKart, Capillary Technologies, Goodworker, and most recently CPO at Setu, which is a fintech company that enables API-based infrastructure for financial services.Welcome to episode nine of Two by Two, The Ken’s weekly podcast that asks the most interesting and often uncomfortable questions on topics we all want to know more about. And we do that through the lens of a 2×2 matrix!You can also sign up for the Two by Two newsletter for free. Each week you’ll get to read a “storified” version of that week’s episode.This episode of Two by Two was produced by Anushka Mukherjee. Hari Krishna is the lead writer and researcher for this episode. Rajiv C N, our resident sound engineer is the audio producer.Write to us twobytwo@the-ken.com and tell us what you think of the show.Please rate, share and follow us on your favorite streaming platform. It helps more like-minded people like you to find out by Two by Two.

If you are a Product Manager, especially in India, you’re probably going through a crisis of faith and existence.As a career, Product Management in India has gone through multiple eras — in the early days, PMs struggled to explain to people what they actually did. Think about all the people you’d imagine who work at a software company. Marketing. Engineering. Sales. Analytics. Design.You can explain what they do to your grandmother. However, the one exception to the rule is Product Management. It’s the only function where the people who do it struggle to explain to their parents what they do.Then, suddenly, there was a gold rush when everyone wanted to become a Product Manager. And now, there’s an existential crisis — partly driven by the reduced funding and attrition, the rise of AI, and the changing nature of products themselves, more and more leaders are asking the question: Do we even need Product Managers?In today’s episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan interview two accomplished product leaders in India. First, there’s Chandrashekhar Vattikuti (CPO and SVP at InMobi, ex-Yahoo, Microsoft) and Shreyas Srinivasan, Chief Product Officer at Paytm*, and also founder of Paytm Insider. During the discussion, they trace the origin, the evolution and the crisis that Product Management as a career faces in India. They try to figure out why and how Product Management became a science and stopped being an art.They try to answer what makes a great product manager and how to find one.And they also ask the question that CEOs and Founders are asking themselves — do we even need Product Managers at all?Welcome to Episode 13 of Two by Two.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday, a short, storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.(Listen to the free highlights only episode on Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts)Further reading:Product Managers used to be creators. Now they are mostly bureaucratsWho killed the art of Product Management in India?Who made the Frauduct Manager?Episode referenced:Google Pay: Big. Successful. VulnerableNew episodes are released every Thursday. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think of the show. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.*Paytm founder Vijay Shekhar Sharma is an investor in The Ken. Want to attend The Ken’s next event—How AI is Breaking and Remaking the Way Products are Built?🎟️ Join us in person or on the livestream—tickets here

We have unlocked the full and unedited subscriber version of episode eight which we released on September 05 for Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken’s app and on Apple Podcasts.School education is a fundamental right in India. An average Indian child spends 10-12 years in schools. And for most parents and families, the money they spend on educating their child is one of the largest over time.And yet, school education is slowly becoming (or perhaps being made) irrelevant in the next step that comes after that: college.The schools-exams-college “chain” is broken. Perhaps because it is now the schools-private-coaching-exams-college chain. And your school education is not going to cut it for you to make the cutoff as millions line up to clear the exam every year.Private coaching is how you manage to get into the school and your actual schooling is just a condition you have to fulfil to sit in for the exam. It plays no part in preparing you for the entrance exam.Private coaching, estimated to be a $25 billion industry by 2025, is becoming the determinant of a good quality education. Not schooling. Thus, as entrance exams get centralized, and private coaching becomes the most reliable way to clear them, the results are only accentuating numerous privileges and biases, including central boards like ICSE/CBSE, bigger cities, boys, and families with higher incomes.12 years of schooling – one of the biggest spends for families – is becoming disconnected from college education and jobs.And to discuss this, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan were joined by three guests.Maheshwer Peri, the founder and CEO of Careers 360, a company that helps hundreds of millions of students each explore career plans. Mahesh has been an investment banker with SBI Capital Markets, then was with the Outlook group for 17 years, including heading it for more than 10 years.Sumeet Mehta, Co-founder and CEO, LEAD Group. LEAD Group offers school edtech solutions across 8000 schools in India, which in turn touch 3.5 million+ students.Nitin Pai, our third guest and the co-founder and director of the Takshashila Institution,  an independent think tank and school of public policy based in Bengaluru.Additional references:How fair are entrance exams?Welcome to episode eight of Two by Two, The Ken’s weekly podcast that asks the most interesting and often uncomfortable questions on topics we all want to know more about. And we do that through the lens of a 2×2 matrix!This episode of Two by Two was produced by Anushka Mukherjee. Hari Krishna is the lead writer and researcher for this episode. Rajiv C N, our resident sound engineer is the audio producer.You can also sign up for the Two by Two newsletter for free. Each week you’ll get to read a “storified” version of that week’s episode.Write to us twobytwo@the-ken.com and tell us what you think of the show.

Ather Energy is the third largest seller of electric two-wheelers in India. Founded in 2013, Ather Energy is known to have kicked off the electric two-wheeler wave in India. They came in with a great product which offered the best of software and hardware on a two-wheeler. And over a decade of its existence Ather has delivered on its promise of a great product which will create a “magical experience” for its customers.Ather spent years building their own electric two-wheelers from the ground up. They built their own batteries, their own chassis, their own electronics and powertrain, and even their own software. But in the process, they lost the opportunity to become the  market leader, a spot that was filled by Ola Electric, a much later entrant.On September 9th this year Ather filed its draft red herring prospectus as it plans to go ahead and list on the Indian bourses. And as hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sat down to discuss and understand what the market looks like for electric two-wheelers and how Ather will fare in a market it kickstarted and popularized. They also got two great guests to discuss this.First is the co-founder and CEO of IPO-bound Ather Energy Tarun Mehta himself and the second guest we had was Professor Rishikesha Krishnan, Director of IIM Bangalore, and a professor of Strategy.It’s not often that we have the co-founder and CEO of a company heading for its IPO discussing its strategy with the director of one of India’s most prestigious management institutes who both studies and teaches strategy.And over the course of 90 minutes, they discussed the strategy and vision Ather Energy is going ahead with into the future and how they intend to keep innovating on their product leadership while also stepping up and getting on the front foot to improve their market leadership.Welcome to Episode 12 of Two by Two.This is shorter version of the episode which highlights some of the most interesting parts of the discussion. The full episodes are available to Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken app and Apple Podcasts.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday short storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.New episodes are released every Thursday. So follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think of the show.Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com and let us know what you thought of the episode. Want to attend The Ken’s next event—How AI is Breaking and Remaking the Way Products are Built?🎟️ Join us in person or on the livestream—tickets here

We have unlocked the full and unedited subscriber version of episode six which we released on August 29 for Premium subscribers of The Ken on The Ken’s app and on Apple Podcasts. Now you can stream the full episode on Spotify, Amazon Music , Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts for free for a few weeks.Google Pay is India’s second largest UPI app with a market share of 38%, with 500+ crore transactions a month. It’s one of the world’s mightiest companies, and yet, we argue that it’s possibly in a vulnerable, strange position. By this, we don’t mean that it will disappear overnight, but that all kinds of competitors are coming for it. Already it’s market share has declined from 44% to 37%. It’s an outpost of an empire that’s fighting a global war. And most importantly, the first wave of UPI is over, and the second phase is starting. UPI itself is changing and going through some transitions, and there are questions on whether signs that Google Pay won’t be able to keep up.Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar in the discussion were two guests with incredible experience in the area of UPI and payments – Abhishek Madan, Vice President of Product at Paytm and Vasisht S Ravichandran, COO at Pop, a new UPI app which is inverting the way we’re looking at UPI and commerce. Vasisht previously also had a stint at Flipkart where he was Senior Director of Customer Loyalty and Retention before leaving Flipkart to start to Pop.And while the conversation was centered around Google Pay, the discussion also went in the direction of understanding the infrastructure on top of which most of India’s most valuable fintechs are built upon – UPI.Two by Two is also a newsletter. You can read the edition of for this episode here by signing up for the Two by Two newsletter, it's free.This episode of Two by Two was produced by Anushka Mukherjee. Hari Krishna is the lead writer and researcher for the episode. Rajiv C N, our resident sound engineer is the audio producer.

Netflix is trying hard to crack the Indian market. Ever since the US streaming giant entered the country, it has been hard at work to make an impact. And over the years, they’ve learnt a thing or two about how the Indian streaming space functions.Netflix is also not shy about expressing how it sees India as its last growth market. Most of the other geographies have saturated their reach to a large extent, but India has always been a pain point for it to get a leg up on. So much so that the then CEO, Reed Hastings, expressed his frustration about why they weren’t able to crack India during an earnings call in 2022.But from then to now, Netflix has managed an interesting turnaround by climbing down the pricing ladder on its subscriptions in India, even as it raises its prices in North America, and throwing in a somewhat limited regional and diversified slate of shows into the mix.However, Netflix is clear on one thing: it sees India as its last growing market and expects to add 100 million paying subscribers to the country. But for that to happen it has to put in a lot more work and now it faces the added pressure of competing with the merged entity of Jio Cinema and Disney+ Hotstar which would create a mammoth of a content library stacked with regional content, endless range of movies and prestige television,  and the massive distributional heft Jio brings to the table.All of this begs the question, given the situation, how seriously is Netflix looking at India as its last growth market?To discuss this, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Kunj Sanghvi, who is the Content and Creative Head at Kuku FM, and Nishad Kenkre, who is presently an Operating Partner at Verlinvest. Nishad has previously worked at Swiggy and was also Director and Head of Strategy at Disney.Welcome to episode 11 of Two by Two.Two by Two is also a newsletter, where every Friday a short, storified version of the latest episode is sent out to subscribers for free. You can sign up for the Two by Two Newsletter here.Additional reading:>Netflix house will let you experience your favorite shows, movies in real life>Netflix climbs down India’s ladderAddtional listening:Why couldn’t Stripe become the Stripe of India?New episodes are released every Thursday. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think of the show. Want to attend The Ken’s next event—How AI is Breaking and Remaking the Way Products are Built?🎟️ Join us in person or on the livestream—tickets here

We have unlocked the full and unedited subscriber version of episode four which we released on August 22 for Premium subscribers of The Ken and on Apple Podcasts. Now you can stream it wherever you listen to your podcasts for free for a few weeks.Software engineering careers used to be a ladder. You studied for 4 years, got a job as a fresher, and could virtually take for granted a steady career filled with learning opportunities, salary hikes, and role promotions.In fact being an engineer was so cool that we mocked MBAs and MBA-types – “suits” – for their desperation to find that elusive technical co-founder. The one who would translate an idea (common) into code and products.Except, that’s increasingly not true.An NYT story published earlier this week put it best.“I have a pretty good sense how fast the progress that students should make in a semester should be,” he said. “In 14 years, I’ve never seen students make the kind of progress that they made this year.”And he knew exactly why that was the case. For the first time, Mr. Ammirati had encouraged his students to use generative artificial intelligence as part of their process — “think of generative A.I as your co-founder,” he recalled telling them.Many AI chatbots are fully capable of writing code now. So your technical co-founder could be an AI?Where does that leave engineers? Are we staring at the end of the golden era for engineers?Welcome to episode six of Two by Two, The Ken’s weekly podcast that asks the most interesting and often uncomfortable questions on topics we all want to know more about. And we do that through the lens of a 2×2 matrix!Earlier this week, Praveen Gopal Krishnan, my co-host, and I met with Amod Malviya, co-founder of Udaan and the former CTO at Flipkart, and Kailash Nadh, CTO at Zerodha*.Both Amod and Kailash have been programmers and engineers for over two decades now. They are also both deeply in love with their craft. Naturally, they are passionate about engineering and have strong views on its future.Additional Reading:Computational Thinking by Jeannette M. WingThe Art of Doing Science and Engineering by Richard HammingThis episode of Two by Two was produced by Anushka Mukherjee. Hari Krishna is the lead writer and researcher for this episode. Rajiv C N, our resident sound engineer is the audio producer.Please rate, share and follow us on your favorite streaming platform. It helps more like-minded people like you to find out by Two by Two.*Zerodha’s perennial fund Rainmatter Capital is an investor in The Ken.