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Typology

Author: Ian Morgan Cron

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Who are we? Why do we act, think and feel the way we do? How can we become our best, most authentic selves? Welcome to Typology, a podcast that explores the mystery of the human personality and how we can use the Enneagram typing system as a tool to become our best, most authentic selves. Hosted by author, speaker and counselor, Ian Morgan Cron, Typology features interviews with thought leaders from every sphere of life, including renowned Enneagram authors and teachers, psychologists, theologians, artists, business leaders, neuroscientists, philosophers, and more. In other words, we’ll be talking with people who are trying to become the best version of themselves in the world.
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What is your relationship with money?  Do you have a healthy one? Do you have a conscious one? Most of us don’t receive a financial education or an emotional literacy education as we are growing up.  But, given how much we think about money, understanding what it is for, and why it is uniquely important to you can help foster a better, more intentional relationship with money. Bari Tessler, Financial Therapist, podcast host, and author of The Art of Money joins me for a discussion on money healing and shares insights into how each type relates to money. In today’s episode you’ll discover: What a financial therapist is and why you need one What “money emotions” are and how they show up for your type How a body check-in relates to money healing Bari Tessler Linden, M.A., is a Financial Therapist, Mentor Coach, Mama-preneur, and the Founder of The Art of Money. She has guided thousands of people to new, empowered, and refreshingly honest relationships with money through her nurturing, body-centered approach.   Her methodology weaves together personal, couple, and creative entrepreneurial money teachings into one complete tapestry. She is the founder of The Art of Money: a year-long money school, which integrates Money Healing, Money Practices and Money Maps.  You can learn more about Bari on her website at https://baritessler.com or follow her on Instagram and Facebook at @baritessler.  ======================================== Ready to connect to the world around you and live true to yourself?  Support your journey with my new course, True You: A Deeper Exploration of the Enneagram.  Join the waitlist at https://www.typologyinstitute.com.
We all view the world through a different lens and the motivations that drive the decisions we make also vary.  The Enneagram is a valuable tool for helping us understand those motivations so we can become more patient parents, communicate better with our spouses, and extend compassion to our coworkers. Our underlying motivations even play a large role in how we behave when it comes to money. When you understand the why behind how you handle money the way that you do, you can begin to make better choices that lead to lasting change. And today, #1 New York Times bestselling author and money expert, Rachel Cruze, joins me to talk about the natural tendencies and basic challenges of each Enneagram type when it comes to finances.   ABOUT RACHEL CRUZE Rachel Cruze helps people learn the proper ways to handle money and stay out of debt. She’s authored three bestselling books, including Love Your Life, Not Theirs and Smart Money Smart Kids. The daughter of Dave Ramsey, she uses the knowledge and experiences from growing up in the Ramsey household to educate others. She’s the host of The Rachel Cruze Show, which is available on Facebook and YouTube, and The Rachel Cruze Show podcast, which is available on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. You can follow Cruze on Twitter and Instagram at @RachelCruze and online at rachelcruze.com, youtube.com/rachelcruze, or facebook.com/rachelramseycruze
Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders, and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. These Eights are intelligent, self-confident, driven, and use their power in the right measure at the appropriate times. They are highly intuitive and read the world from their gut.  And, today’s guest is no exception. Listen as Dave Ramsey joins me to talk about the Enneagram and how it has changed the way he moves through the world.  You don’t want to miss his insights as they pertain to trusting his instincts, leading authentically, processing information, and decision-making. Dave Ramsey is a financial expert helping millions avoid the mistakes he’s made to improve their financial wellness. As the owner of Ramsey Solutions, Dave employs more than 800 team members who are focused and dedicated to doing work that matters. The Dave Ramsey Show is the third-largest radio talk show in America and is heard by more than 14 million listeners each week on more than 600 radio stations, The Dave Ramsey Show podcast, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio, and a 24-hour online streaming video channel. His caller-driven show features Ramsey’s advice on avoiding money mistakes and his step-by-step plan to get out of them. The Dave Ramsey Show celebrated 25 years on the air in 2017. You can find more on Dave Ramsey at daveramsey.com or follow him on social media at @daveramsey or @ramseyshow.  
The ever-present passion (fear) that drives the Enneagram Six’s way of acting, thinking, and feeling, is actually experienced as anxiety. Fear is what arises when you’re in the presence of a clear and immediate source of danger.  Anxiety, in contrast, is a vague, free-floating sense of apprehension that arises in response to an unknown or potential threat. For Sixes, anxiety plays a role in all aspects of their life.  They are constantly planning “what-if” scenarios, have thought through the contingencies, and know exactly what to do in any given situation.  But healthy, self-aware Sixes recognize their pattern of worst-case-scenario planning, learn to trust their own experiences, and believe that in the end everything will be alright. In this episode of Typology, author and host of “The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey” podcast and Enneagram Six, Jamie Ivey explains the thread of natural caution and apprehension she feels as it relates to her friendships, marriage, and parenting.  And she reminds us that, when healthy, the Six’s anxiety produces a lot of great stories! P.S. Listen to this episode then text “FRIEND” to 33777 for a free download from Jamie.
The more I know about life and people, the more I love Enneagram Sixes. Called Loyalists, Sixes are the most faithful and dependable people on the Enneagram. They keep a watchful eye over us. They safeguard our values. In my opinion, they're the glue that holds our world together. And, by the time this episode is over, you’re going to understand why Enneagram Sixes have a reputation for being some of the funniest people on the planet. Today, Jill Phillips, Leslie Jordan, Francie Likis, and Katie Williams describe what it’s like to be Enneagram Sixes.  You're going to love and admire this group of women as they explain:   How fear and anxiety manifest in The Loyalist What the difference is between counter-phobic and phobic Sixes How different forms of worst-case-scenario planning play out So, sit back, hit play, and listen to this remarkable group of women talk about how they see and experience the world. You’ll enjoy every minute of it.
Another one of my favorite episodes is my interview from Season 1 with Jo Saxton.  She’s an author, speaker, podcast host, and leadership coach who has dedicated her career to growing leadership teams around the world and empowering women to find their purpose in their personal and professional lives.  She’s also a strong voice for Enneagram Eights. Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. They have the intelligence, courage and stamina to do what others say can’t be done. And, as with most Enneagram Eights, Jo Saxton is full of Eight's life-giving energy. When healthy, Eights learn to open their hearts like a healthy Two. And on this replay, Jo shares how she peeled back the layers, let down her defenses and got in touch with their inner heart. Listen in as we discuss healing broken identities and using the Enneagram as a tool for breaking through the junk that we accumulate and that confuses us from seeing who we truly are. And at the end of the show, Jo Saxton shares some tips for Eights who are just beginning to do their work and how they can begin to grow beyond their broken identity, or their broken personality, into their best self. For more information on Jo, visit www.josaxton.com
As we continue to celebrate reaching over 11 Million downloads, I’d like to revisit my interview with Fr. Richard Rohr.  I first encountered the Enneagram when I was a graduate student at a conservative seminary. While on a weekend retreat I came across a copy of Fr. Richard Rohr’s book, Discovering The Enneagram: An Ancient Tool for a New Spiritual Journey. In that book Richard describes the traits and the underlying compulsions of each of the nine basic Enneagram types. Based on my life experience and what I’d learned in my training to become a counselor, Rohr’s description of the types blew my mind.  They were uncannily accurate. I felt sure I had stumbled on an amazing resource, not only for Christians but for all people. Little did I know, that 25 years later, Richard and I would be friends and the Enneagram would become the central focus of my work. In this episode, you will learn: How Richard discovered the Enneagram How to break the shackles of self-doubt with self-compassion What exactly is the true self vs. false self Why the Enneagram can help to identify the true-self How we can use the Enneagram on a daily basis as a framework, or blueprint, for spiritual formation Richard also offers words of encouragement for and caution for each Enneagram type. Richard is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province and he is the founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He is the author of numerous books, including Everything Belongs, Adam’s Return, The Naked Now, Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, Immortal Diamond, and Eager to Love: The Alternative Way of Francis of Assisi.  
We want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in and sharing our episodes -- helping us reach our biggest milestone yet -- 11 million downloads! As we celebrate this month, we'll be revisiting a few of Ian's favorite episodes that show just how powerful the Enneagram is as a tool for personal transformation. In today's replay, we take a look at the adaptable, caring, and "go with the flow" nature of Enneagram Nines.  To keep the peace, Nines can over-accommodate in an unconscious effort to avoid conflict and "fall asleep" to their own needs.   Our guest, Lysa Terkeurst, #1 New York Times bestselling author and Enneagram Nine, explains why it's important for The Peacemaker not to confuse the desire for peace with the disease to please and to recognize the delight of being yourself. Lysa TerKeurst is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Uninvited and It’s Not Supposed to be This Way as well as 21 other books. As president of Proverbs 31 Ministries, Lysa and her staff are passionate about teaching the Word of God in ways that get people excited to live the Bible out loud. With their First 5 app and Encouragement for Today devotions, millions of people are studying God’s Word every day with Lysa and her team. Lysa writes from her sticky farm table and lives with her family in North Carolina.   Lysa was recently awarded the Champions of Faith Author Award and has been published in multiple publications such as Fox News and CNN online. Additionally, she has appeared on the Today Show as one of the leading voices in the Christian community. Each year, Lysa is a featured keynote presenter at more than 40 events across North America, including the Women of Joy Conferences and the Catalyst Leadership Conference. She has a passion for equipping women to share their stories for God's glory through Proverbs 31 Ministries' annual She Speaks Conference and writer training program, COMPEL: Words That Move People. Lysa writes from her sticky farm table and lives with her family in North Carolina.   
Driven by the desire to appear successful and distinguish themselves through their achievements, image-focused Enneagram Threes often appear confident, ambitious, and goal-oriented. At their best, they are self-accepting, authentic role models who inspire others. Today, author and leadership coach, Jenni Catron explains the pivotal role the Enneagram has had played for her personally and professionally.  She discusses the importance of identity work for Enneagram Threes, recognizing when the shadow-side is showing up more, and how being too risk-avoidant can hinder growth and development.    Jenni Catron is a leadership coach, author and speaker. Her passion is to cultivate healthy leaders to lead thriving organizations. She speaks at conferences and events nationwide, seeking to help leaders develop the clarity and confidence to lead well. As Founder and CEO of The 4Sight Group, she consults organizations on leadership, team culture and organizational health. With over 20 years of experience in corporate and non-profit organizations, Jenni has a passion for helping leaders “put feet to their vision.” Jenni is the author of several books including Clout: Discover and Unleash Your God-Given Influence and The 4 Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership . She loves a fabulous cup of tea, great books, learning the game of tennis and hiking with her husband. Jenni can be found on social media at @jennicatron and at https://get4sight.com You can also download her free PDF to help you define compelling values for your team.
Known for their playful, high-spirited, and spontaneous personalities, Enneagram Sevens infuse optimism and adventure in their daily interactions.  But their fear of boredom can lead to impulsive decision making and difficulty committing to plans in advance. So, what happens when an Enneagram Seven focuses on doing their work and allows the knowledge to penetrate and break the patterns that typically drive an Enthusiast?  Our guest, founder of TOMS and Madefor, Blake Mycoskie shares how the adoption of specific positive practices has helped him to really thrive and flourish as his best, most authentic self. Blake Mycoskie is a serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, and best-selling author most known for founding TOMS Shoes.  He’s also the person behind the idea of One for One®, a business model that helps a person in need with every product purchased.  As a New York Times best-selling author of the book, Start Something That Matters, Blake offered his own story of inspiration and the power of incorporating giving in business. He’s achieved numerous accolades for his unique approach to business including the Secretary of State’s 2009 Award of Corporate Excellence, the 2015 Next Generation Award from Harvard’s School of Public Health, the 2016 Cannes Lion Heart Award, and the 2018 amfAR Award of Courage.  Blake also recently expanded his philanthropic efforts to include the funding of the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins, making it the first such research center in the US and the largest of its kind in the world. His current project, Madefor is a ten-month program that applies the principles of modern neuroscience, psychology and physiology to make your brain and body better.  It leads you to adopt habits that work together to shift your mindset and behaviors.  And, just for our Typology listeners, you’ll receive 20% off with the discount code MFTYPOLOGY.  For more information, visit GetMadeFor.com.
Enneagram Eights are real forces of nature.  They are incredibly hardworking with a great deal of energy, and their self-confidence and take-charge personality make it easy for them to make difficult decisions.  So, when it comes to finding the job you love, Enneagram Eight, Ken Coleman couldn’t be a better guide.  Today on Typology, Ken not only outlines the questions any Enneagram type needs to answer in order to find their dream job, but he also covers what he likes about being an Enneagram Eight and how it’s helped him in his personal and professional life. Ken Coleman is the #1 national bestselling author of The Proximity Principle: The Proven Strategy That Will Lead to the Career You Love. At Ramsey Solutions, he hosts The Ken Coleman Show, a nationally syndicated radio show — part of the Ramsey Network — that airs on 51 stations across the U.S every weekday. Ken is a trusted voice and expert who’s been featured in Forbes and appeared on Fox Business Network, Yahoo! Finance, and the Rachael Ray Show.
As a map of our interior world, the Enneagram is meant to bring about or enable spiritual transformation. But what does it look like when we are far enough down our path to see a difference? Our guest, actor/musician and Enneagram three Josh Radnor illustrates that vision today. Josh talks to Ian about growing in his compassion for himself and others, transforming from an unevolved three to an evolved three, recognizing the tension that plays out as a three with a four wing, and what spirituality looks like for him right now. JOSH RADNOR, most famous for his role on the long-running hit sitcom HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER, also has an impressive body of dramatic work. Josh wrote, directed, and starred in Sundance feature hits LIBERAL ARTS and HAPPYTHANKYOUMOREPLEASE, and co-starred alongside Katheryn Hahn in Jill Soloway’s AFTERNOON DELIGHT, which also premiered at Sundance. Josh has also starred in numerous plays on Broadway. On television, he starred for two seasons on PBS's MERCY STREET and on NBC’s one-hour drama RISE. He is in a band with musician Ben Lee, called Radnor & Lee, and they just released their second album GOLDEN STATE. You can also see him alongside Al Pacino as the Nazi hunter Lonny Flash in Amazon's HUNTERS.
We're kicking off season 4 with a great episode! Today, Enneagram Four pop star Tori Kelly and former professional basketball player André Murillo join me to talk about how the Enneagram has impacted their relationship.  Right out of the gate the conversation goes deep into how the Enneagram fosters a better understanding of the needs of their friends and family, encourages them to respect each other’s strengths, and helps them navigate the different ways they each approach emotions. Tori Kelly is an American singer, songwriter, actress, and record producer who first gained recognition after posting videos on YouTube as a teenager, and appeared as a semi-finalist on the ninth season of American Idol in 2010. Thereafter, she independently released her self-produced debut EP in 2012, Handmade Songs by Tori Kelly. Since making her debut with 2015’s Unbreakable Smile, a widely acclaimed album that entered the Billboard 200 at No. 2, Tori has lit up the pop landscape with her breathtaking vocals and full-hearted songwriting.  Over the past year, she’s continued to captivate with her sophomore effort Hiding Place: a passion project whose R&B-tinged take on classic gospel won Best Gospel Album at the 2019 Grammy Awards.  And though Hiding Place marks a stylistic departure from Kelly’s work in the pop world, each song shows the steadfast commitment to uncompromising artistry that carries through her music.   Her husband, André Murillo is a former German-American professional basketball player who was raised in Lake Forest, California. He started his basketball career at Hamburg Towers in the German Pro A Basketball League then played for the Sea View League MVP. He currently has a passion for writing and sharing his personal life experiences.
When I first heard an Improver wrote a book titled, The Lazy Genius Way, I had to get her on the show.  How on earth does an Enneagram One, who typically can’t stop working to perfect the world and relax, come to embrace laziness? In today’s episode, author Kendra Adachi explains why it’s so important to be a genius about the things that matter, but to be lazy about things that don’t.  She also talks about the impact the Enneagram has had on growing in self-awareness, helping her recognize and find compassion for her inner critic, and adopting simple practices to help break out of the trap of her personality.  
What makes a great leader? We typically think of a strong leader as someone who knows where they are going and how to motivate others to get there.  But how do you effectively lead your team if you don’t have a clear vision of your future? On this edition of Typology, Michael Hyatt explains what a Vision Driven Leader is and why a strategic vision is the most essential ingredient in leadership, not just in business but in all aspects of our lives. Known for his New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling books advising leaders in the area of productivity and goal achievement, Michael is uniquely qualified with over 40 years of experience as an entrepreneur and executive to discuss the make-or-break factor in successful leadership: vision. In this podcast, you’ll discover: What a vision script is and why it’s so important How an irresistible, clear vision can rally your team How to avoid distractions and focus on opportunities that connect with your vision Listen to this great episode then make sure to grab your copy of The Vision Driven Leader: 10 Questions to Focus Your Efforts, Energize Your Team, and Scale Your Business.
This week I’m thrilled to welcome podcast goddess and Enneagram Five, Elizabeth Evans. Having previously wrestled with a scarcity mindset that kept her wrapped up in her mind, she shares her powerful story of how she flipped the script of her fear and stepped into a mindset that led her to become a successful, female business owner.  An expert in storytelling, Elizabeth shares how she integrates the Enneagram into her business, opens up about how she manages her “go-to” fears, and explains how she taps into the superpowers that come with being an Enneagram Five. Elizabeth is a podcast producer, economics fanatic and founder of Elizabeth Evans Co.  Her 360 boutique podcast studio helps creatives strategically build their show from conception to launch. Her uniquely created podcast methodology has helped world-renowned artists, best-selling authors, award-winning musicians, and impactful influencers to create transformative podcasts full of timeless, quality conversations that empower listeners into extraordinary action.  For more information about Elizabeth Evans visit her website and don't forget to check out her recently launched Podcast Society.
How many teams do you belong to?  Personally, I am part of numerous teams. Be it my marriage, my friendships, my church, my AA group, or my business, I use the Enneagram with each of my teams to reduce conflict, improve communication, and promote cooperation. It’s an invaluable tool for building stronger teams. In this episode, guests Tim and Beckie Farrant join me to talk about how they apply the Enneagram in business, in leadership, and in marriage. Beckie is a wildly successful DIY blogger and top producer for DoTERRA Essential Oils.  Tim has over 20 years in pastoral ministry and is the author of “She’s Selling What?!”  Together, they walk us through the ways they support each other and their teams using the Enneagram.
The Enneagram provides nine consistent, fairly predictable ways for us to understand and tell our narrative of how we operate in the world and make sense of our lives. It’s a tool that helps us enter into a conversation with ourselves about the recurring themes and patterns of behaviors that are self-defeating or hurtful to others. One of the themes that operates as a thread in each of our lives is shame. Next to love, I believe shame is the most powerful force in the universe, but in the wrong direction. In today’s profoundly moving, heart-changing episode, author and psychiatrist Dr. Curt Thompson joins me for a deep conversation about shame and how it plays out as a human experience for all nine types. In this episode we cover: The definition of shame… what it does as opposed to what it is Ways shame manifests in each Enneagram type How we can begin to heal shame through community About Curt Thompson, M.D. Curt Thompson, M.D., is a psychiatrist in private practice in Falls Church, Virginia, and founder of Being Known, which develops teaching programs, seminars, and resource materials to help people explore the connection between interpersonal neurobiology and Christian spirituality which lead to genuine change and transformation.  Dr. Thompson is the author of Anatomy of the Soul and The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves. Thompson graduated from Wright State University School of Medicine and completed his psychiatric residency at Temple University Hospital. He is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. He and his wife, Phyllis, are the parents of two children and reside in Arlington, Virginia. He serves as an elder at Washington Community Fellowship in Washington, D.C.
Today, psychologist, author, and spiritual director Chuck Degroat joins me for a killer episode about the nine faces of narcissism.  And we’re not talking about people with full-blown narcissistic personality disorder per se. We’re talking about narcissism on a continuum and what it looks like when each Enneagram type is manifesting a narcissistic style or type. Each of us is somewhere on that narcissistic spectrum.  In this episode you’ll learn: What narcissism actually is How narcissism shows up in all nine types, and What the healing path is for all nines types to keep narcissism in check.
Earlier this season, Molly Fletcher and I talked about her struggle to relax and turn it off. At the end of our interview, I asked her to come back after she had done some work and really dug into the Enneagram. Now, seven months later, she joins us to share how time and reflection have truly helped her slow down and shift her focus to chasing fulfillment rather than achievement. What does that look like for an Enneagram Three? Tune in to find out. Molly Fletcher is a popular keynote speaker who shares the unconventional techniques that helped her thrive as one of the first female sports agents in the high stakes, big ego world of professional sports. As a highly sought-after motivational speaker, she delivers game-changing messages to top companies, trade associations, and teams worldwide. Molly spent two decades as one of the world’s only female sports agents. She was hailed as the “female Jerry Maguire” by CNN as she recruited and represented hundreds of sport’s biggest names, including Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz, PGA TOUR golfer Matt Kuchar, broadcaster Erin Andrews, and basketball championship coaches Tom Izzo and Doc Rivers. She currently serves as a National Trustee member for the Boys & Girls Clubs of America and on the board of directors for the Intercollegiate Tennis Association (ITA) and the national advisory board for the Positive Coaching Alliance (PCA).
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Comments (77)

Sheryl Jenkins

Where are the Ones?? 🙂

Sep 19th
Reply

Richieand Shannon McConnell

This is THE BEST conversation I have heard regarding the heart and experience of a Two. Although I generally glean from each show, this one felt so personal to me in numerous ways and Lisa-Jo did so well to articulate her narrative and put words to countless life experiences and perceptions I share with her. Thank you, Lisa-Jo!!!

Aug 10th
Reply

Richieand Shannon McConnell

I really appreciate how this couple speaks to one another. You can tell there is a mutual respect and love here.

Aug 8th
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Debbie Fuller

Still hoping for more episodes on type 1s. The majority seem to be about 2, 3, & 7.

May 28th
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Natasha Kovalam

Great episode! She seems to me type 3 from the very beginning. Authenticity that she talks about might actually be her virtue - she mentioned many events that had slowed her down and helped her to reevaluate things in her life. 3SP?

Apr 3rd
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Karen A. C. Goode

as an adult type 1 child of an unhealthy 4, I very much love the phrase 'your feelings are not the boss of me!"

Mar 26th
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Brittnee Love

Dear Mr. Cron (and team), I think you may have an unconscious bias against type 1s as many of your episodes include information and interviews with type 7s, 9s, 3s, 8s. I would love some more love for the 1s.

Mar 4th
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Lexie Oosse

After listening to this and being somewhat of a newbie to ennegram I think I'm a self-preservstion 2, thanks!

Jan 15th
Reply (1)

Andrea Bartell

Oh my, I did not realize my comments were public. I apologize for the confusion! 😬 Love Typology and the insight of self awareness that it has helped to cultivate in my inner self. Thank you for the depth of vulnerability paired with laughter!

Nov 20th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

giving the tools to empower action for things that you are passionate about, empowering you to use your giftings and talents to change the world of young parents.

Nov 15th
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Andrea Bartell

25:00 not worthy of knowing or love

Nov 15th
Reply

Tena L. C. Ritter

I’d love to hear from a 6 with wing of 7.

Nov 15th
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Andrea Bartell

44:00 CFO

Nov 15th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

35:00 business culture

Nov 15th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

19:30 values of the company

Nov 15th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

anxiety in digital age

Nov 15th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

38:30 Burnout for 8

Nov 15th
Reply

Andrea Bartell

37:00 Healing journey as a 5

Nov 14th
Reply (1)

Andrea Bartell

34:00 blessing

Nov 14th
Reply (1)

Andrea Bartell

47:00 adapted self

Nov 10th
Reply
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