Unprecedented

"Unprecedented" is a biweekly podcast hosted by Law.com reporter Ben Hancock about technology, the law, and the future of litigation. Based in San Francisco, Ben writes about third-party litigation finance, legal data analytics, artificial intelligence, privacy, and related issues. Listen to more Law.com podcasts here.

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01-10
32:27

We Have Moved!

Hello Unprecedented listeners. We've been in the process of transitioning this podcast to a new home and a new format. From here on out, you can find future episodes of Unprecedented over on the Legalspeak podcast, hosted by Law.com's Vanessa Blum and Leigh Jones. Every three or four weeks, I'll be dropping in with a dispatch from the intersection of technology and the law. Instead of focusing on individual conversations, going forward I'm hoping to go out and get lots of different voices to talk about how the law and the legal profession are grappling with technological change, and bringing listeners along for the ride. For my first episode, we're getting a crash course in artificial intelligence and the law, featuring conversations with people in different quarters of the legaltech industry I've spoken to over the last several months. That episode is live now. You can subscribe at any of the links below, or wherever you listen to podcasts: Apple Podcasts (iOS devices) Google Play (Android devices) Libsyn Thanks for listening and I'll hope you'll be tuning in to Legalspeak soon!  

03-30
01:08

The CFAA, Blockchain, and Why the 'Best Lawyers Would Qualify as Hackers

Alexander Urbelis of New York's Blackstone Law Group describes his unusual career path from getting involved with 2600: The Hacker Quarterly, to becoming a lawyer for the U.S. Army JAG Corps and the CIA, and later joining Big Law. He also discusses the evolution of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, the biggest legal challenges facing the internet, how his background has shaped his information security-focused legal practice.

03-08
51:18

David Howard, Microsoft's Head of Litigation: Why Tech Is Fighting the U.S. Government

Microsoft is going head-to-head with the Department of Justice at the U.S. Supreme Court later this month over law enforcement access to data stored overseas. In this episode, David Howard, a former federal prosecutor who's now the head of litigation at Microsoft Corp., explains what's at stake in the case and why this issue has become a rallying point for the wider tech industry.

02-13
20:31

The Smart Contracts Are Coming: An Interview With Cardozo Law's Aaron Wright

In this special episode of Law.com's Unprecedented podcast, we talk with Aaron Wright, an associate clinical professor at Cardozo Law School in New York City and director of the school's Blockchain Project. Cardozo has been significantly expanding its initiatives with the technology since 2014, helping major blockchain projects like Ethereum and teaching its students how to code smart contracts. Wright talks about his forthcoming book co-authored with Primavera De Filippi of Harvard's Berkman Klein Center, "Blockchain and the Law: The Rule of Code," and what blockchain will mean for the legal profession—beyond the hype.

01-30
11:24

Scott Reents: AI, Analytics, and How Cravath Is Embracing Technology

At ALM's upcoming Legalweek conference, one of the major overarching themes is how artificial intelligence will change the practice of law. In this episode of Law.com's "Unprecedented" podcast, we talk with one of the speakers at the event—Scott Reents, the lead attorney for data analytics and e‑discovery at Cravath, Swaine & Moore—about the challenges and advantages to integrating AI with the legal profession. For more info, check out the show notes on Law.com.

01-24
31:04

Heather Meeker: Big Trends in Open Source Software and the Law

Recent months have seen important legal developments in the open source software world. Large organizations including Facebook, Google and the Linux kernel community have adopted new enforcement policies around copyright licenses. And Facebook saw major blowback over patent rules in its open source license. In this episode of "Unprecedented," O'Melveny & Myers partner Heather Meeker explains these trends and what they mean for lawyers and coders. She also talks about open source security, and the challenges open source projects face in dealing with sexual harassment amid the #MeToo movement.   Read the full show notes at www.law.com

01-09
37:26

Episode 20 - End of Year

In the final episode of Unprecedented for 2017, host Ben Hancock talks with Ross Todd, bureau chief of Law.com's California news site The Recorder, about the big legal battles in tech for the coming year. There's the looming trial in Waymo v. Uber, litigation over the Tezos initial coin offering, and of course, the big digital privacy cases pending at the U.S. Supreme Court.    Like the podcast? Leave us a review, and check out more coverage of these stories in the show notes at Law.com.

12-22
39:43

Joshua Ashley Klayman: Bitcoin, ICOs, and Token Presales -- From a Regulatory Perspective

The chair of the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance Legal Working Group helps interpret the debate over how digital tokens fit into a regulatory framework created in a much different era.

12-12
49:18

Nathan Wessler: The Fourth Amendment and the 'GPS' in our Pockets

This week on Law.com's Unprecedented podcast we talk with Nathan Wessler, a staff attorney with the ACLU's Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project. Wessler will be arguing against the Department of Justice on Wednesday at the U.S. Supreme Court in Carpenter v. U.S.

11-27
30:51

Riana Pfefferkorn: The Looming Battle in the Crypto Wars

This week on Law.com's Unprecedented podcast we talk with Riana Pfefferkorn, a fellow at the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School focusing on cryptography.

11-14
31:21

Brynly Llyr: Ripple and the Legal Challenges Facing Cryptocurrencies

This week on Law.com's Unprecedented podcast we talk to Brynly Llyr, general counsel at Ripple Labs, a blockchain company focused on facilitating cross-border money transfers. Llyr talks about the legal challenges facing cryptocurrencies and the emerging fintech sector, and how the landscape is not as uncharted as it may seem. "Just because you have a new technology doesn't mean that no laws apply to it," she says.

10-30
28:27

Gillian Hadfield: How the Field of Law Needs to Change

This week on the Law.com Unprecedented podcast, we hear from Gillian Hadfield, a professor at the University of Southern California's Gould School of Law and author of Rules for a Flat World: Why Humans Invented Law and How to Reinvent It for a Complex Global Economy. 

10-17
35:13

James Lee: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Litigation

Duration: 00:25:36   This week on Law.com's Unprecedented podcast, we hear from James Lee, CEO and co-founder of legal AI startup LegalMation. Lee, also a litigator and managing partner at LTL Attorneys in Los Angeles, talks about the potential and limitations of applying artificial intelligence to litigation. And he offers predictions for how being a lawyer will change once tasks like answering a complaint or writing an interrogatory are automated.

10-02
25:37

The Perils of Being a Judge on Social Media

Duration: 44:45 For an institution that is supposed to appear at all times above the fray, it can get tricky when members of the judiciary decide to accept a Facebook friend request or even just retweet a news article. A set of federal and state appellate court decisions over the summer offered some guidance on what's allowable for judges when it comes to social media, but a lot is still murky. This week on Unprecedented, we explore the ethical boundaries for the bench online, as well as what judges are telling lawyers about social media behavior.   "For judges, this area has really just exploded, in part because of the role that politics plays in many states -- 39 states elect their judges in some kind of partisan election," says guest John Browning, an attorney at Passman Jones in Dallas who has written at length about the issue. Multiple states have dealt with whether judges "liking" a fellow judge's campaign Facebook site is an impermissible endorsement. Some judges don't even realize what they're sharing with the world.  "We have, in some sense, judges with a lack of understanding of how it works."

09-15
44:45

Online Sex Trafficking, Emojis, and How the Internet Has Changed Law

Duration: 39:31 When Eric Goldman started practicing law, the Internet was a different place from the one we know today: a world of dial-up bulletin boards and web precursors like "Usenet" and "Gopher." The legal aspects of cyberspace were murky at best. "I joined the Cooley Godward firm in Palo Alto in 1994 and I told them I wanted to do Internet law," recalls Goldman, now a professor at the Santa Clara University School of Law and prominent technology law blogger. "And they said, 'That sounds great. If we have any Internet law stuff, we'll let you know." Since then, Goldman has chronicled how the law has coped with the modern Internet, using his academic perch to try and make sense of a chaotic space. In this episode of Unprecedented, Goldman talks about one of the biggest legal flashpoints for Internet companies — Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act — and asks how courts will know when a smiley face emoji really means something more.

09-13
29:31

What's Next in Legal Tech? A Podcast From Stanford's FutureLaw

Duration: 22:08 The legal profession is hardly immune to the changes being wrought by technology. And Stanford University's CodeX Center—a partnership between its law school and computer science department—has been a significant contributor to those changes in recent years as an incubator for legal tech startups. Among the companies that have roots at CodeX are Bay Area legal analytics firms Lex Machina and Ravel Law. CodeX also has tried to give lawyers and other industry professionals a glimpse over the horizon with its annual "FutureLaw" conference. If there was an overriding theme at this year's event on April 6, it was that the current law firm model is unsustainable and isn't serving the needs of clients or society generally. University of Southern California Law Professor Gillian Hadfield, in a keynote, said that one survey of large company general counsels showed 70 percent would not recommend their primary law firm and that 80 percent are reducing the work they send out.   RELATED ARTICLE: Bigger Data, 'Tech Terror' and Diversity Disparities Mark CodeEx's Fifth FutureLaw   In this podcast, we take you inside the FutureLaw conference to hear from some of the speakers and attendees about how technologies like legal data analytics are evolving, how law firms can make themselves more efficient by embracing them, and what the limitations are. It's not all doom and gloom. "I don't think that the law firm or the lawyer will go away, that they will be completely disrupted and there will only be robo-lawyers," said Roland Vogl, executive director of CodeX. "I think a lot of those technologies that we're talking about are lawyer-enhancing."

09-13
22:08

What You Need to Know About the Future US-EU Data Regime

Duration: 28:36 Attorneys trying to keep up with the legal landscape surrounding transfers of data between the United States and the European Union have had their work cut out for them the last few years. First, the U.S.-EU "Safe Harbor" framework was scrapped by the EU high court. Just as that was being patched up with the "Privacy Shield," another court action in Ireland has threatened an alternative legal tool permitting transatlantic data flows. Plus, let's not forget the gorilla in the room — the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) — which will overhaul the entire legal framework for data privacy in Europe when it comes into force next year.   Françoise Gilbert. In this episode of Unprecedented, veteran cybersecurity and data privacy attorney Françoise Gilbert of Greenberg Traurig's Palo Alto office gives us a look ahead at the challenges facing companies and lawyers in this space. She explains why she's not so worried about the Irish High Court case, predicts that the Privacy Shield will probably hold, while warning that the GDPR could lead to increased enforcement and litigation risk for companies. "I would predict that every country, especially the larger ones that have a larger staff, will have more enforcement actions and be more stringent than they were in the past," she says. Listen to the full podcast below.

09-08
28:36

Suing For Security and The Internet of Things

Duration: 22:50 The Internet of Things has a certain allure. You can set your home at just the right temperature, or ask Alexa about the First Amendment. But if there was one takeaway from the Mirai botnet debacle that weaponized over a million internet cameras, it was this: a lot of these devices have serious security flaws. And those flaws, naturally, have opened the door to lawsuits. In this episode of Unprecedented, we talk with two people about where this issue is headed: Wiley Rein partner Megan Brown, who advises companies on cybersecurity litigation and regulatory issues in Washington, and Stanford University assistant computer science professor Keith Winstein, who is participating in the Secure Internet of Things Project. Brown contends that litigation will only hamper efforts to make devices more secure. "You may create a perverse incentive that tells companies don't talk about their vulnerabilities and don't share information about this because you're just going to get sued down the road," she says. Meanwhile, Winstein explains that the reason so many of these devices are weak in the first place boils down to both how their software is developed and raw dollars-and-cents. "Some of these internet of things devices, they don't cost $500, they cost more like $5. And so the economic model might not be there for someone to keep preparing fixes for any length of time."

09-08
22:50

Big Tech's Fight Over Foreign-Stored Data: A Podcast With Morgan Lewis Partner Mark Krotoski

Duration: 20:01 How far should the arm of the law reach when it comes to data stored overseas? That's a question that courts continue to struggle with, even after U.S. tech companies scored a landmark win last year in favor of limiting what authorities can obtain when it comes to foreign-stored data. Prosecutors investigating crimes in their jurisdiction demand access to suspects' emails and other communications no matter where the data is stored. But companies say complying could put them in conflict with the legal privacy frameworks of other countries. Lately, companies like Google Inc. and Yahoo Inc. have been on the losing side of the battle. More Law.com podcasts In this podcast, we talk to Morgan, Lewis & Bockius partner and former Department of Justice criminal attorney Mark Krotoski to understand the controversy around the scope of the 1986 Stored Communications Act. What he sees is a novel, technical issue colliding with an ill-fitting legal framework. "Because of that—and because there's no established precedent—you're getting different decisions from different judges," Krotoski says. Ahead of a U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the scope of the law this week, Krotoski says courts are looking to the legislature to help settle the fight—something Google has also called for. "I think most would agree that if Congress weighed in we'd have more clarity as to the limits and guidelines for the collection of data. But until then, we've got this old statute that has to be applied in this new, evolving area."

09-08
20:01

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