Upsample with Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff

Update from later today: VSO musicians have begun their strike. After Will vents about the Canadian Football League controversy, we discuss a potential strike by the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra (VSO) musicians (4:32), purported salary discrepancies (17:52), and we catch a brief response by the VSO in real time while recording (23:22).We jumped the usual schedule to talk about this news, so the next episode of Upsample will drop three weeks from now, on October 17th.VSO musicians' strike announcement videoDaily Hive story which includes response from the VSO1999 CBC story about Toronto and MontrealRecs: Will - watch, listen to, read anything made between 1941 and 1956, inspired by Ted Gioia "Is Mid-20th Century American Culture Getting Erased?"Carson - listen to Bleeds by WednesdayFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We begin by jinxing the Jays. Then we get into the KARRA story “I invested $100,000 to create my album & Spotify deleted it” & part 2 (2:24), are labels bad if they just use DistroKid? (19:49) and is this gonna make us all leave finally? (35:31) Recs: Carson - listen to God's Gonna Give You a Million Dollars by Shallowater, Will - watch Pablo Torre Finds Out⁩ FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Be careful out there or you'll get yelled at by shirtless dudes in Pontiacs! Will has a music library app now on his desktop, and Carson needs a new website (02:10), Bandcamp launches Clubs (08:38), EVEN is a hip-hop-coded post-Bandcamp platform (25:35), we check out the familiar mission of another challenger called Ampwall (31:12), and some people really hate Stripe (46:19).Bandcamp Clubs: https://bandcamp.com/about_clubsEVEN: https://get.even.biz/Ampwall: https://ampwall.com/Recs: Carson - The Bear season 4, Will - TANG! by Steph WallFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Will LOVES that you don't read his emails. Subvert turned down $200K and want to launch with no fees (1:52), it's "AI Music Night" in Texas (18:15), We need skills to make the platform internet suck less (27:26), Which tech move is Will going to make first? (38:28), and JP Saxe's tour got canceled (48:19).Subvert 0% Platform Fees links: Changelog linkBlog postAI Music Night links: Rubber Gloves Rehearsal Studio venue in Denton, Texas announces "AI Music Night"Cancels later the same day after viral backlashJP Saxe tour situation links: First videoFollow-up videoVariety coverageSaxe writes to VarietyHis Substack"Why Some Artists are Rethinking Touring" on Chartmetric's blog by Sonia ChienWill's 2022 article about Cadence Weapon's tour lossesRecs: Will - album Different Strokes for Different Folks by Charlie Hunter & Ella Feingold, Carson - album Baby by DijonFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We have closure on The Velvet Sundown! Then we get into the very creative ticket pricing, or lack thereof, at Bumbershoot in Seattle and the Guelph Jazz Festival in Ontario (11:43), and a Vancouver city council motion that put several of our favourite ideas on the table, but didn't pass (27:42).Recs: Carson - Tyler Childers album Snipe Hunter, Will - Brighde Chaimbeul album SunwiseFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

After clearing the WeTransfer air, we get into subvert.fm, a collectively owned music commerce platform in development. The Subvert team calls the platform a direct alternative to Bandcamp. We discuss the concept of Subvert and who founded it (11:17), Bandcamp controversies: being sold twice and union drama (15:08), Carson vs. Will on enshittification (29:46), Subvert's structure and current status (38:04), and how we feel about it + are we signing up as artists? (49:46)Recs: Will - podcast episode All One Song :: Jeff Parker on “The Needle and the Damage Done” by Aquarium Drunkard, Carson - album Swag by Justin Bieber FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

The story around Daniel Ek's military tech investments has reached a fever pitch, and nothing about it is likely to improve. Is now finally the time to quit using Spotify? We dive into Deerhoof's announcement about pulling their music from Spotify (4:03), our feelings about what to do as an artist (18:30), and what to do as a user (36:57).Recs: Will - Without A Stage: LA's Independent Jazz Scene directed by Michael DiPietro by The Terrarium on YouTube , Carson - Andor season 2FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We're back from going to festivals! We kick it off in urban affairs with "The Uncertain Future of Granville Island" by Uytae Lee on the YouTube channel About Here (2:23), then swing into AI as Carson shares the Timbaland music training/generating controversy (24:31) and Will gets into The Velvet Sundown, an accelerationist mix of AI-generated everything + bot playlist marketing (47:09).Timbaland links:“Timbaland’s AI music project is a ghost in a misguided machine” by Sheldon Pearce for NPRZarah Scully claims Timbaland trained Suno using her voiceYouTube video: Curtiss King interviews Zarah ScullyVelvet Sundown links:"The Velvet Sundown are a seemingly AI-generated band with 325k Spotify listeners" by Stuart Dredge for Music AllyBenn Jordan’s IG post claiming Velvet Sundown are 100% AI gen. Rick Beato agrees They are supposedly tweetingRecs: Carson - album Tether by Annahstasia, Will - album Gadabout Season by Brandee YoungerFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We hang at Carson’s house to celebrate 5 years of Will’s music website Rhythm Changes! We talk about: (2:28) The very beginning of RC in the summer of 2020 with 50 email sign-ups, (7:11) “The worst gig of my life” story and reuniting with David Blake, (15:50) Is vancouverjazz dot-com lost forever? (20:04) The curse of always being The Podcast Guy, (23:29) Times that Will touched a nerve with subjects? (28:35) Caity Gyorgy and 'never write alone', (32:59) Why Will didn't cover the scene's most controversial story, (42:38) How the 2021 heatwave, RC’s failed first jazzfest, and Thad Bailey-Mai's set at Ocean Artworks led to Will meeting Tim Reinert before Tim started presenting shows, (54:26) The tech stack at RC, (1:01:10) Why Will replies to over 80% of music submissions, (1:02:31) Why the Infidels Jazz t-shirt is the most meaningful piece of clothing he owns.Recs: Will - album Ce qui tourne dans l’air by l’Oumigmag, Carson - album All Ashore by Punch Brothers We’ll take a short break now and return in July.FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Shout-out to our friends in The Shorties! We then get into a story called "Why it’s Time to Support Grassroots Venues with a £1 Ticket Levy" by Dan McCarthy in The Quietus (5:09), an out-of-nowhere but relevant reference to the 2015 vote on our local transit authority in Vancouver (21:41), and the video "Why EVERY Artist should be on YouTube" by Jon Talks Beats (26:55).Recs: Will - album Sancocho Trifásico by Empanadas Ilegales, Carson - album Caroline 2 by CarolineFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

After Will admits to giving Meta his money again, we get into a big hairy question: what is the meaning of ‘labour’ we use in the arts (03:14)? Anti-streaming labour activism (14:21), the labour economics of playing gigs and small local shows (21:38), a detour into Vancouver venues closing (32:46), the Cultural Land Trust (38:10), and which things that an artist does are actually labour? (49:41)Recs: Carson - album 2 by Foxwarren, Will - Canadian Football League season opening weekendFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We're back and Will has a camera! We talk about the story Carson shared called "'A Billion Streams and No Fans': Inside a $10 Million AI Music Fraud Case", by Kate Knibbs of WIRED (3:07), Spotify tracks on the wrong artist profiles (17:24), what happens to the experience of using streaming when the AI-gen floodgates burst? (37:59), and the next-level realism of Google Veo 3 AI videos: is Will being too naive about it? (44:27).We reference Search Engine's podcast episode "The Russian Cake Switcheroo" and the Anthony Fantano video "Massive Problem on Spotify" . The music project from the WIRED story is here.Recs: Carson - setting up your own music server at home, Will - Dialectic podcast hosted by Jackson Dahl with guest Alex Danco, start at 59:00 for music scene discussionFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Up-front, Will daydreams about folk guitar following his Brentwood show and longs for advertiser bucks. We have a hard time not staying depressed about the lack of advice for the next generation, while discussing a feature on studio owners written by Nathan Caddell in the Georgia Straight (05:47). Then we check out the teardowns and maybe-defenses of André 3000's 7 Piano Sketches project, which has united most of the internet's jazz musicians against him (32:12). Recs: Will - Giacomo Turra scandal & Adam Neely "The Ethics of Fake Guitar", Carson - album Under Tangled Silence by DjrumFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Spotify's favourite metric? We don't love it. We can't even guess our own monthly listener figures! Recs: Carson - Blue Prince, Will - 2025 NHL playoffs (Leafs, Oilers, Jets)FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

After Carson reviews the latest Bon Iver album, we discuss a controversial, but relatively tame and annoying online jazz battle: Patrick Bartley’s #BoycottAI vs. JazzMemes' Chase Maddox with the blog post "There's no 'AI' in Art" on AI-generated images. Was 'slop' invented in November 2022, does the fate of art itself hang in the balance, and what else can we do? Also, stick around for Carson ringing in a big anniversary as an artist himself!Recs: Carson - album Uhlmann Johnson Wilkes, Will - Venus Theory YouTube video "The Future of Music is Noise"FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.  

We’re live! To celebrate, we get into the topic that brought us together for the idea of this podcast in the first place: Liz Pelly’s book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist.Upsample will continue weekly!Recs: Carson - artist Queralt Lahoz, Will - Land & Lore YouTube channel videos on the Vancouver Stock ExchangeFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

After Will airs his grievances about "promotional partnerships", we smooth our brains by emptying thoughts about streaming and the labour economy of music today, in anticipation of the next episode on which we'll launch this podcast. Is it even worth it for a small indie artist to distribute on streaming? We cover the question of per-stream payouts, the UMAW and the push for a Penny Per Stream, whether or not DIY artists would make more money today or in 2001, and the Living Wage for Musicians Act of 2024 (1:01:58).Recs: Carson - album Slump by Improvement Movement, Will - book Bedroom Rapper by Rollie Pemberton aka: Cadence Weapon Correction: at 24:41 we share an anecdote about streaming Kenny Wheeler's music around the time of his passing. Wheeler died on September 18, 2014, and Spotify launched in Canada on September 30, 2014. That means our anecdote is probably off-base, but we still think the scenario is relevant to the episode.FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

How the heck did we end up on our musical and non-musical career paths? Is there a rise and fall of careerism in music? We uncover stories from our random walks through school and work so far.Recs: Carson - Kyle Chayka One Thing newsletter, Will: the 2025 Formula One seasonFIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

We revisit each of our main previous think-pieces: Carson's “Big Things Coming” at Rhythm Changes published in 2023 and Will’s episode of The Strong Towns Podcast recorded in April 2022.See also the episode “Strip Mall” on The Strong Towns Podcast (June 2020).FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

In the first-ever episode of the show, we discuss Brandon Shaw’s iPod series of videos from his YouTube channel called Digging The Greats. Find it starting here at part 1 of 4.FIND US: Will -YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/Carson-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/ -Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/ Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.