Valley of Depth

Space has a power problem. Satellites need more electricity and better protection, yet solar arrays are slow to build and failure-prone, and shielding adds mass and complexity. Atomic-6 is tackling both sides at once.Our guest this week is Trevor Smith, founder and CEO of Atomic-6. His team is building Light Wing, a redeployable, mass-manufacturable solar array aimed at higher watts per kilogram and faster delivery, and Space Armor, an RF-permeable debris shield designed to stop hypervelocity impacts while preserving comms and resisting directed energy. The company’s first on-orbit hardware is slated for February 2026, and they’re pursuing multi-billion-dollar constellation opportunities alongside a long-term purchase agreement with a private space-station builder.Inside the episode:Why reliability, not just power density, wins satellite programsHow a space power gigafactory could reset constellation economicsWhat “cell-agnostic” really means for supply chain and performanceThe new “radome for space” capability and where it matters for defenseCislunar prospects, lunar-orbit data centers, and vertical solar towersLessons from working with Space Force and navigating dual-use fundingThe state of the U.S. industrial base and why solar arrays are a top supply-chain priority • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – How Atomic-6 got started03:06 – Building the power grid for space04:09 – Why is Atomic-6 building what it's building05:58 – Dollars per watt per kilo07:18 – Cell agnostic07:58 – How Trevor got into the space industry09:14 – Team construction at Atomic-609:49 – What type of people is Atomic-6 looking for?10:35 – Atomic-6's key product offering10:58 – Current customers and opportunities at Atomic-611:38 – Pipeline13:07 – Manufacturing scaling14:04 – How much is an operator spending on solar arrays?15:12 – Who would we go to today for building a satellite array and what would they be missing?16:33 – Space Armor19:44 – What is a radome?20:34 – Whipple Shield deployment21:11 – Significance of being transparent to radio signals21:41 – Terrestrial applications for the Whipple Shield23:24 – How Atomic-6 came to developing the Whipple Shield24:48 – Opportunity vs Light Wing and Space Armor25:38 – Defense traction with Space Armor26:52 – Atomic-6's business model29:17 – Milestones30:35 – Vertical integration32:34 – Other products that Atomic-6 is developing33:42 – Developments in advanced materials that will define architecture in space36:18 – What does success look like for Atomic-6 in 5 to 10 years?36:59 – What keeps Trevor up at night?38:05 – Government support40:17 – The legacy Trevor wants Atomic-6 to leave behind • Show notes •Atomic-6’s website — https://www.atomic-6.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Satellites are expensive and once launched, mostly untouchable.. That’s the problem Starfish Space is solving. The company is building Otter, a small, autonomous servicing vehicle capable of rendezvousing with, docking to, and moving other satellites in orbit.On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Austin Link, co-founder of Starfish Space. Austin shares how a team of former Blue Origin engineers turned a bold idea into one of the most advanced orbital servicing programs in the world. We trace Starfish’s journey from recovering a tumbling spacecraft spinning 330 degrees per second, to preparing for the first commercial docking of an unprepared satellite in orbit. We also discuss:How Starfish closed the business case for on-orbit servicingWhat it takes to autonomously dock with a satellite moving faster than a bulletThe economics of life-extension and debris disposalLessons from the Otter Pup missionsThe dual-use future of orbital servicing for defense and resilienceThe long-term vision for a logistics layer in space…and more. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:59 – Starfish's mission03:02 – Why is now the time to be building on orbit satellite servicing04:44 – On orbit servicing with the rapid advancement of satellites07:29 – Why leave Blue Origin to start Starfish?09:18 – Convincing investors early on11:22 – Results from Starfish's first few missions13:40 – Why Starfish has fun with their names15:43 – How the team de-tumbled the satellite21:55 – Starfish's upcoming missions25:37 – When will Starfish start selling their systems?27:33 – Future business models and commercial vs government split30:08 – How Starfish helps customers price their ROI32:26 – Do regulations need to be placed in order for the market to thrive?35:14 – How Starfish differs from competitors36:29 – Current size of the satellite servicing market37:25 – Starfish's key strength40:19 – Insights on servicing from defense42:51 – What changes will happen if satellite servicing becomes routine?44:14 – Starfish's next phase in the business45:05 – Starfish's North Star46:19 – Overhyping the Kessler Syndrome47:41 – What does Austin do besides working on Starfish? • Show notes •Starfish’s website — https://www.starfishspace.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Spacecraft carry all kinds of sensors, but rarely the one humans rely on most: video. Despite offering the richest insight per watt, gram, and dollar, cameras have been largely absent from orbit.That’s what TRL11 is out to change. The company is building radiation-tolerant optics, edge computers that process and compress video in real time, and ground software that turns footage into operational awareness. On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Nicolaas Verheem, founder and CEO of TRL11. Nicolaas shares how his journey from pioneering wireless video at Teradek, work that won both technical Academy and Emmy Awards, led him to ask why space was still flying blind. We trace TRL11’s path from early in-orbit demos to commercial traction with operators and defense, and dig into how edge intelligence and video awareness could transform the space economy. We also discuss:• Why video is the “missing sensor” in space• Lessons from TRL11’s first orbital missionsThe three core use cases: health monitoring, mission awareness, and mission enablement• How software, not hardware, creates a lasting moat in space video• The long-term vision of human-like awareness in space…and more. • Chapters •01:03 – Nicol and Starwars and Startrek03:10 – Nicol winning an Academy Award and an Emmy04:14 – Nicol at Teradek05:13 – How Teradek inspired Nicol's current company TRL1106:30 – How video applies to the space industry09:41 – Why do we need video and what problem does it solve?12:56 – A ring camera for space17:06 – The story behind the company name19:32 – TRL11's current product offerings21:43 – Showing the operator what matters on screen24:53 – How do you build a space camera?26:45 – What TRL11 has learned in their early orbit tests29:06 – TRL11's primary first customers32:25 – Making the case for investors36:45 – Should every spacecraft have video onboard?38:03 – The importance of video for inspiration40:03 – Misunderstandings when it comes to video from partners, investors, and customers41:10 – Lessons Nicol learned building a company in the space industry42:42 – Fundraising at TRL1144:26 – Legacy and product evolution • Show notes •TRL11’s website — https://www.trl11.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Smallsats have defined the last decade of space, but their limitations are clear: low power, limited throughput, and fragile unit economics. K2 Space is betting on the opposite. The company is building mega class and giga class satellites, platforms measured in tons rather than kilograms, that deliver unprecedented power, capacity, and resilience. By vertically integrating 80 percent of their systems in house, K2 is cutting costs by an order of magnitude and making industrial scale spacecraft a reality.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Neel Kunjur, cofounder and CTO of K2 Space. Neel traces the journey from early Slack messages about the promise of MEO to a 160 person team building the largest commercial satellites ever attempted. He shares how K2 has reimagined subsystems like reaction wheels, high voltage power, and 20 kW propulsion to unlock entirely new mission architectures in MEO, GEO, and beyond. We also discuss:Why MEO is such an underexplored orbital regimeThe engineering breakthroughs behind large reaction wheels and high voltage power systemsHow stackable satellites change constellation designThe long term vision for space infrastructure, from in space compute to energy harvesting…and more.  • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:56 – What's happened in the past two years since K2 has been on the pod02:13 – The thesis behind K203:51 – What does Neel mean by aperture?04:40 – Why do satellites need to grow in size and power?06:59 – The rise in Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) chatter08:49 – Why did Neel leave SpaceX and start K2 with his brother?12:04 – Building K2 for a post Starship world14:10 – Current and future K2 offerings15:32 – 20 Kilowatts vs a small LEO satellite17:10 – Giga-scale satellite18:40 – How K2 is able to deliver $15m satellite21:13 – K2's innovations so far23:01 – Engineering problems that larger satellite builders have to worry about25:08 – K2's propulsion solution to get MEO28:11 – Engineering for Starship's current MEO blindspot29:18 – Neel's prediction on Starship's refueling rollout30:14 – Innovation through simplicity33:24 – How is K2 hiring the talent for their niche challenges35:52 – How big is K2's team today36:43 – Key takeaways from K2's first mission38:22 – Mission Gravitas39:59 – Orbit race40:39 – Mission Gravitas: Commercial or DoD?41:33 – K2's scaling plans43:03 – Customized vs standardized45:17 – Overspec'd by design45:40 – Will K2's success spur more competition?47:23 – Will satellites become robust, industrial hardware?48:48 – What's enabled by these large platforms?51:01 – The paradigm shift happening in engineering for space52:42 – Will SpaceX own LEO?55:05 – The name and branding behind K2 • Show notes •K2’s website — http://www.k2space.com/K2’s socials — https://x.com/K2SpaceCoMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This episode is presented by L3Harris Technologies.On this special edition of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Kristin Houston, President of Space Propulsion and Power Systems at L3Harris. Kristin leads the team responsible for propulsion and space power systems across Artemis and beyond, from the RS-25 main engines to the Gateway’s high-power electric propulsion system to Fission Surface Power (FSP) on the Moon. We dive into how Artemis II is shaping up, the role of SLS, and why nuclear power and propulsion may be the linchpin of America’s long-term space presence.We also discuss:What Artemis II is designed to prove, and why precision on Artemis I mattered so muchHow Artemis ties directly into national security and the new lunar race with ChinaFSP – what it is, why it matters, and why NASA is accelerating it nowNuclear propulsion: hype vs. physics, and how soon it could be operationalWhy maneuverability in space is becoming the next strategic advantageGolden Dome and how propulsion/power innovations fit into the architectureThe propulsion milestone Kristin wants to see in the next 10 years…and much more.Check out this Valley of Depth on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – Kristin's background03:47 – Why are we going back to the Moon?07:10 – State of the Artemis program09:28 – L3Harris's involvement in Artemis10:48 – What does success look like for Artemis 2?12:38 – Orbital maneuvers and landing14:35 – Lessons from Artemis I that's giving confidence into Artemis II15:45 – Artemis II readiness, risk, and pacing16:39 – What needs to go right in Artemis II18:55 – The need for the SLS rocket19:57 – The criticism of the SLS22:28 – Could Starship and the SLS coexist?24:33 – National security ROI for sustained Lunar operations27:02 – Are we underestimating China?27:40 – What if China gets to the Moon first?31:13 – The question about power34:59 – Minimum power requirements on the Moon35:45 – Government's renewed focus on nuclear36:57 – How far away are we from nuclear propulsion?39:27 – Maneuverability in space42:20 – Defense focused propulsion systems42:57 – Golden Dome46:11 – Propulsion milestones • Show notes •L3Harris’s website — https://www.l3harris.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Some environments are simply too harsh for traditional power sources. Solar panels fail in darkness, batteries die quickly, and diesel can’t reach. That’s where Zeno Power comes in. The company is pioneering nuclear batteries, compact systems that recycle radioactive waste into safe, reliable power for years at a time.On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Tyler Bernstein, co-founder and CEO of Zeno Power. We trace the journey from a Vanderbilt classroom project to a venture-backed company with $70M in private capital, $60M+ in NASA and DoD contracts, and a working nuclear prototype. Tyler shares how Zeno is positioning itself to power critical frontier operations: autonomous systems on the seabed, satellites in orbit, and landers on the Moon.We also discuss:How a nuclear battery works and why Strontium-90 is Zeno’s starting fuelWhat it takes to safely turn nuclear waste into usable powerThe use cases that only nuclear batteries can unlockThe business model: selling units vs. power-as-a-service vs. revenue sharingNavigating the unique regulatory path for radioisotope systemsThe risks of scaling a nuclear startup…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro & WSBW Ad01:26 – Tyler's background and how he came to co-found Zeno Power04:13 – Is it normal for Vanderbilt to support their students' ideas and startups?05:11 – Key mentors/validators of Tyler's business07:06 – Zeno's products and $70M fundraising09:12 – What is a nuclear battery and how does it work?12:40 – How Zeno is carefully handling Strontium-9014:39 – Future use cases for Strontium-9015:53 – Advantages of nuclear battery18:09 – Energy limits and stacking19:30 – DoD and commercial customers21:20 – Future business model22:52 – How does Tyler think about pricing?24:31 – How does regulation look for nuclear batteries?27:00 – Will there be meaningful change coming out of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)?29:03 – Competition31:25 – Turning nuclear waste into valuable power34:12 – The future of nuclear waste disposal37:47 – Biggest technical risks Zeno is combating40:46 – Scaling the Stirling generator41:49 – Zeno's testing infrastructure43:08 – What keeps Tyler up at night47:16 – Is Tyler optimistic about the future of energy in the US?48:41 – Zeno's legacy in 20 years • Show notes •Zeno Power’s website — https://www.zenopower.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Continuous human presence in orbit has been a cornerstone of U.S. leadership in space for 25 years. But recent changes to NASA’s Commercial LEO Destinations (CLD) strategy have Pam Melroy—former NASA Deputy Administrator and shuttle commander—sounding the alarm. She warns that shifting to short-duration missions risks ceding leadership in LEO and undermining U.S. readiness for Mars, opening the door for China to take the mantle.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Pam to talk about the state of NASA, the future of space stations, and why requirements, the often overlooked backbone of program management, will determine whether the U.S. stays ahead. We trace her career from test pilot to shuttle commander to senior leadership at NASA, DARPA, and the FAA, and unpack what it means to build an architecture that actually holds together from LEO to Mars.We also discuss:Why continuous presence in LEO is a national security and leadership issueHow the CLD Phase 2 shift could reshape investor and partner confidenceThe role of SpaceX and Starship in the Moon–Mars roadmapWhat it takes to write requirements that don’t doom a program from the startPam’s vision of LEO, the Moon, and Mars in 2045…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:55 – WSBW Ad01:21 – The key to Pam's success03:32 – The state of NASA05:01 – NASA in the next decade if we stay in our current trajectory06:58 – Why is maintaining a human presence in LEO so important?10:18 – The changing CLD Strategy15:29 – Cost and impact of continuous vs 30-day missions18:01 – NASA's requirements23:50 – Disintegration of requirements27:32 – Impact of the shift in CLD strategy29:52 – Why go back to the Moon?31:35 – Does the media understand the impact of landing on the Moon and Mars?35:19 – Why do 30-day missions make sense37:53 – Will China beat us back to the Moon?41:41 – Cultural impact if China beats us to the Moon45:17 – Does the Artemis program have the right architecture to succeed?47:46 – Is NASA too dependent on SpaceX?52:47 – How much should the U.S. be interested56:02 – What did leading the space shuttle teach Pam about leadership?57:54 – Inspiring the next generation of space exploration58:46 – Prediction 20 years later01:01:37 – Aliens? • Show notes •Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Logistics rarely makes headlines, but it wins or loses wars. Rune Technologies is betting that the future of contested sustainment won’t be built on warehouses and spreadsheets, but on software. The company recently raised a $24M Series A to accelerate that vision.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Rune co-founder and CEO David Tuttle to talk about how the company is reimagining military logistics from the ground up. We trace Rune’s path from early prototypes to today’s TyrOS platform, discuss the cultural inertia inside the Pentagon, and unpack what it means to build software that commanders can trust under fire.We also get into:The founding story of Rune and the early technical unlocksBuilding TyrOS and winning adoption with frontline commandsWhat it takes to design software soldiers actually want to useWhy logistics is becoming a strategic lever in great power competitionThe long-term vision for software-defined sustainment…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:02 – WSBW01:27 – The story behind the name "Rune"03:02 – What is Rune building?04:34 – David's background and how he ended up founding Rune08:10 – Why David and Peter Goldsborough had to make Rune exist10:43 – Logistics in warfare13:02 – How logistics are still being tracked today and why it’s outdated17:05 – How TyrOS changes the logistics of the battlefield21:56 – Operating in denied or degraded environments24:54 – Who's using Rune's products right now and future scaling29:20 – What has surprised David the most31:08 – Pilot to program of record with the DoD33:39 – Competitive landscape36:01 – Will Rune stay in Defense?37:30 – Will software like Rune's change military doctrine?40:28 – Software making decisions in life-or-death scenarios42:45 – Contrarian beliefs about defense tech46:12 – Milestones to look out for at Rune47:32 – What does the US military look like if Rune succeeds?48:59 – What does David do for fun? • Show notes •Rune’s website — https://www.runetech.co/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Tommy Hendrix is Managing Partner at Decisive Point, a venture firm backing early-stage companies developing critical national security technologies. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we unpack what it really means to fund the future of national defense and how venture capital is becoming a tool of statecraft.A former Green Beret turned investor, Tommy brings rare insight into the geopolitical stakes, bureaucratic hurdles, and human motivations behind the new national security startup wave. From combat deployments in Iraq to due diligence in D.C., he’s seen the full arc of how technology shapes power.We get into Decisive Point’s playbook, from why it was built, to how it supports founders navigating the defense industrial complex. Tommy also shares lessons from working inside the machine, the firm’s approach to incubation, and how they decide when a startup can actually shift the deterrence equation.We also dive into:The strategic case for funding earlyWhy some military problems aren’t venture-scaleWhat it takes to build “weapons-grade” startupsThe ethics of AI-enabled kill chainsPrivate capital’s role in a new Cold WarHow the next great defense companies will be bornThis episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:14 – From Green Beret into venture04:02 – Deployments that have shaped Tommy's venture career10:54 – What is broken in the US's current procurement process for defense tech?14:51 – A future without humans in the kill chain18:42 – What has changed with defense tech investors?24:05 – How does Tommy pick the right companies to invest in?28:57 – Tommy's work in nuclear32:19 – How helping a portfolio company go through bankruptcy gave Decisive Point a new lens for investment strategies34:49 – How does the firm make decisions37:37 – Companies that were good for the nation but difficult to justify long-term venture39:54 – Must-haves for the US to win the tech race42:55 – Tech gaps that need more focus47:00 – Qualities of a founder Tom is looking for49:22 – What Tom carried over from his military career into his investing career52:01 – The driving force behind Decisive Point • Show notes •Decisive Point’s website — https://www.decisivepoint.com/Decisive Point’s socials — https://x.com/decisivepointvcTommy’s socials — https://x.com/thomasehendrixMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com 

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Regent cofounder and CEO Billy Thalheimer to explore a radical reimagining of coastal mobility, not with eVTOLs or hyperloops, but with high-speed electric seagliders that skim just above the water.Part hydrofoil, part aircraft, and fully electric, Regent’s vehicles operate in the sweet spot between aviation and maritime. They’re fast enough to replace short-haul flights, regulated like boats, and increasingly viewed by the Pentagon as a new class of strategic asset.Billy walks us through Regent’s founding story, from MIT aerodynamics to launching the world’s largest electric aircraft-by-another-name. We dive deep into the company’s dual-use strategy, its multibillion-dollar commercial backlog, and its early defense work with the U.S. Marine Corps.We also get into:The technical magic behind “float, foil, fly”Why flying 10 feet above water solves big infrastructure problemsRegent’s bet on maritime-first regulationHow seagliders fit into Indo-Pacific logistics and contested environmentsThe case for a new coastal transportation layer and why no one’s built it until now• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:01 – Why Rhode Island?03:15 – Startup community in Rhode Island07:17 – Founding and origin behind Regent12:10 – How things have changed since the ekranoplan19:05 – How Regent's planes handle a rogue wave20:52 – State of Regent's product build24:35 – Who will be Regent's first operators?26:11 – Regent's regulatory process as a maritime vessel31:59 – What happens when the FAA decides to be involved?36:02 – Commercial vs government use38:15 – When did Regent start talking with the DoD?43:34 – Scaling for dual use commercial vs military46:34 – Raising $90m and common skeptical questions49:39 – What does success for Regent look like?• Show notes •Regent’s website — https://www.regentcraft.com/Regent’s socials — https://x.com/regentcraftMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/• About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Xcimer Energy’s cofounders, Conner Galloway and Alexander Valys, to unpack one of the boldest bets in fusion: resurrecting a Cold War-era laser technology to build the fastest, most scalable path to commercial fusion power.Xcimer has raised over $100 million to bring its inertial confinement fusion system to life, starting with LPK, a high-powered prototype laser built in just four months, and progressing toward Vulcan, a full-scale, ignition-class reactor designed for the grid. We also discuss:Why excimer lasers are making a comebackWhat Xcimer learned from building LPK in just four monthsThe Phoenix-to-Vulcan roadmap for commercial fusionLessons from NIF’s ignition milestone and its limitsThe case for fusion as infrastructure, not just scienceHow Xcimer is positioning itself in a crowded fusion landscape…and much, more. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:24 – Payload Pro02:06 – Recent changes in fusion03:29 – Commercial fusion and perceptions on the tech05:18 – Founding story of Xcimer06:51 – Common approaches to fusion today08:48 – Was the National Ignition Facility (NIF) the catalyst to start Xcimer?12:22 – Convincing investors to invest $100m into Xcimer13:34 – What is NIF's goal right now and can it produce electricity?18:04 – Why hasn't the private sector solved the fusion problem?20:25 – Xcimer progress report23:07 – Xcimer's roadmap for the next bigger machine24:41 – Coming up with Athena25:33 – Addressing neutron damage29:54 – The biggest unknown for Xcimer32:29 – Who are Xcimer's first customers35:03 – Cost per megawatt per hour to be competitive37:23 – How much of Xcimer's supply chain is being verticalized38:48 – Vaporizing a missile with a laser41:27 – Other fusion companies Alex and Connor admire44:28 – What inspires a founder or engineer to pursue less proven fusion methods?47:28 – What drives Alex and Connor to keep on going?49:02 – First commercial Xcimer fusion plant • Show notes •Xcimer’s website — https://xcimer.energy/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com 

Mikkel Vestergaard isn’t a typical aerospace founder. Before building solar-powered stratospheric airships, he spent two decades in humanitarian innovation, distributing a billion malaria nets, co-creating the LifeStraw, and helping eradicate Guinea worm disease. Now, as CEO of Sceye, he’s applying that same ethos to aerospace.In this conversation, Mikkel dives deep into the origins, design, and future of High-Altitude Platform Systems (HAPS). We explore why the stratosphere is emerging as a new layer of infrastructure, filling the gap between satellites and towers, and how Sceye’s helium-filled, solar-powered airships could reshape internet connectivity, earth observation, and national security.We cover:Why Mikkel pivoted from global health to aerospaceThe engineering that makes persistent stratospheric flight possibleHow Sceye closes the “power loop” to stay aloft for monthsCommercial applications from telecom to methane detectionStrategic partnerships with SoftBank, América Móvil, and MawaridThe defense potential of HAPSThe business model behind “infrastructure as a service”What it takes to build investor conviction around a platform that feels left-field• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:52 – Life before Sceye02:51 – Work at Lifestraw06:31 – What is Lifestraw?07:50 – Making the pivot from global health to aerospace and working at Sceye10:52 – HAPS or High-Altitude Platform Systems12:25 – Why choose a balloon over a fixed wing aircraft?14:04 – Types of payloads16:06 – Not Hindenburg 2.016:48 – How Mikkel's earlier material science experience shaped Sceye's design decisions18:09 – Pitching Sceye to investors19:16 – Common misconceptions of stratospheric platforms20:41 – What can HAPS do for the telecommunications industry?25:03 – How many HAPS would we need to provide global coverage?25:24 – Sceye's equity investor partners26:00 – When Sceye will be fully commercialized28:34 – Other use cases31:33 – Advantages over satellites32:34 – National security use cases33:31 – The business model of HAPS34:52 – Sceye's next iteration of customers35:40 – How Sceye is building their team36:56 – Manufacturing process and scaling37:53 – Capital to scale38:25 – What keeps Mikkel up at night39:38 – What does success to Sceye look like • Show notes •SCEYE’s website — https://sceye.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Julien Barber is an investor at Emerson Collective, a venture and policy firm founded by Laurene Powell Jobs, where he backs bold bets on decarbonization, infrastructure, and long-horizon climate technologies. Before becoming an investor, Julien researched fusion energy at MIT and co-founded a carbon-tech startup. In today’s episode, we go deep into Julien’s investing philosophy, Emerson’s unique model, and the hard tech categories he believes are most undercapitalized.We cover:Why Emerson is structured for risk others can’t takeFusion, fission, and the evolving energy stackAI’s impact on power demand and hardware accelerationHow to invest when the grid is the bottleneckBuilding conviction in hard tech when capital is scarcePublic vs. private roles in scaling fusionWhat a 7-million-fold increase in energy density may actually look like• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:49 – From scientist to investor04:37 – Why Julien chose fusion08:57 – Investment process at Emerson10:08 – The team at Emerson12:15 – Is Emerson consensus-driven and why is it an LLC?14:07 – Under-invested areas in climate & industrial tech17:24 – Are AI valuations reasonable today?18:59 – Bottlenecks in the grid23:11 – AI energy consumption: hype or real concern?27:10 – Bridging the energy gap29:20 – Fusion’s role in the next decade31:24 – Google & Commonwealth Fusion: serious commercial signal?32:37 – Are we underinvesting in fusion?39:12 – Who will reach commercial fusion first?41:36 – 30-year future if fusion succeeds • Show notes •Emerson’s socials — https://x.com/emcollectiveEmerson’s website — https://www.emersoncollective.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Welcome to a special Tuesday-edition of Valley of Depth, powered by Integrate.John Conafay spent years inside the space and defense worlds, from Spire to Astranis to the U.S. Air Force, and saw the same problem everywhere: complex programs were managed with spreadsheets, slide decks, and…crossed fingers. So in 2022, he founded Integrate to fix it. What started as a scrappy startup with five engineers has since landed what he describes as one of the largest software contracts in Space Force history. We discuss: Why defense programs are still run on outdated, fragmented toolsWhat Integrate actually does and how it’s different from Smartsheet or Microsoft ProjectHow Conafay won a $25M Space Force contractThe architecture choices behind real-time collaboration in classified environmentsWhy internal tools and status quo software can’t scale with complexityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:57 – John's background02:59 – What is Integrate?04:02 – Pain points in complex project management06:08 – John's interest in aerospace10:01 – Core product at Integrate11:20 – Why tools weren't implemented before12:50 – DoD project management & efficiency loss14:29 – Multiplayer coordination approach16:19 – Hardest integration problem17:40 – Security architecture20:17 – Go-to-market & government entry22:18 – $25M Space Force contract26:14 – Future Space Force goals27:59 – Government vs commercial customers29:16 – Pricing30:13 – Profitability, team, funding, scaling32:23 – Ideal investor33:20 – Competitors34:50 – Competing with internal tools36:01 – 10-year product vision37:36 – Strategic risks in the next decade39:42 – Hardest part of building Integrate41:34 – Misconceptions about working with the DoD42:55 – Advice for founders & younger self43:53 – John in another life • Show notes •John’s socials — https://x.com/jconafayIntegrate’s socials —https://x.com/Integrate_coIntegrate’s website — https://integrate.co/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/  • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Chris Kemp took Astra public in 2021 with a bold vision: low-cost rockets launching daily, bringing sovereign space access to every country on Earth. At its peak, the company was worth over $2 billion. Within two years, that valuation collapsed by 99%. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we go inside one of the most dramatic flameouts and attempted comebacks in the commercial space era. We discuss:Why Astra’s SPAC-era promises didn’t survive contact with realityWhat really went wrong with Rocket 3 and how much of that falls on KempThe decision to take the company private and buy it back for pennies on the dollarHow Astra raised $80M, and its attempt to raise another $100M+The quiet success of its satellite propulsion businessRocket 4, and whether this time is actually differentHow Kemp is repositioning Astra as a mobile, defense-aligned launch platform • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:53 – What's happened since 2022?02:58 – What kept Astra going after test flight failures?06:46 – Did Astra's engineering approach work against them?08:15 – What Chris believes he got wrong12:51 – Has Chris questioned his leadership at Astra?14:37 – What would Chris have done differently?16:34 – Taking Astra private & investor reactions20:58 – What Chris saw more than anyone else22:20 – Team and factory space at Astra23:20 – Chris's philosophy on rocket building25:54 – Rocket 4 vs Rocket 330:35 – Astra’s renewed business model34:11 – Why is Rocket Lab valued at $16B?36:21 – Engine business & customer trust39:25 – NASA & Astra39:49 – Post-privatization investment45:18 – The team at Astra47:08 – What went wrong with Astra's infamous flight47:54 – Chris's evolving leadership style50:05 – Chris's hardest moment at Astra50:49 – Unfair criticisms of Chris51:54 – What present Chris would tell past Chris53:12 – What keeps Chris going54:57 – Would Astra go public again?57:51 – Astra milestones to watch • Show notes •Chris’ socials — https://x.com/KempAstra’s socials —https://x.com/astraAstra’s website — https://astra.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Jeff Thornburg helped build Raptor at SpaceX. Now he’s building something new: a spacecraft designed for rapid maneuverability across orbits powered by solar thermal propulsion.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we get into the technical, strategic, and commercial implications of in-space mobility and why it matters now. Topics include:The hardest parts of building a rocket engine (and why most startups get it wrong)The origins of the Raptor engine and lessons from SpaceXWhy Portal is betting on solar thermal propulsionHow Supernova enables fast, responsive movement across LEO, MEO, and GEOThe case for refueling in orbit and designing without dependenciesWhy defense needs faster spacecraft and what commercial use cases followHow Thornburg sees Starship changing the economics of spaceand much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:44 – What drew Jeff to creating engines?05:13 – Why is building rocket engines still so difficult?11:50 – Jeff's time at SpaceX17:52 – Stratolaunch and Commonwealth Fusion and why Jeff moved on22:50 – Origin of Portal25:25 – Commercial use case27:00 – 5 year vision for Portal's architecture32:01 – Pricing34:52 – Solar thermal propulsion38:14 – What comes after Portal's Supernova?41:15 – Customer traction and Supernova flight45:44 – Competition in solar thermal propulsion49:20 – Fundraising prior to the first launch51:18 – Portal in the next 10 years54:53 – State of Starship • Show notes •Jeff’s socials — https://x.com/JeffThornburgAntares’ socials — https://x.com/PortalSpaceSysAntares’ website — https://www.portalsystems.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In the wake of new executive orders elevating nuclear energy as a national security priority, there’s growing momentum—and urgency—behind advanced fission technologies. Few are better positioned to talk about this shift than Jordan Bramble, co-founder and CEO of Antares Nuclear, a startup building microreactors for defense and space.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we explore the strategic, technical, and geopolitical dimensions driving the nuclear renaissance. We cover:• Why microreactors are built for strategic energy and not just the grid• The real story behind public support for nuclear energy• How Antares plans to deploy sub-megawatt nuclear systems on U.S. military installations• The challenges of fuel supply, regulation, and capital• Why China is pulling ahead and what the U.S. must do to catch up• Nuclear-powered space assets and propulsion• Why Jordan believes venture-scale outcomes are coming to nuclear energy • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:56 - Payload Pro01:39 - State of fission03:38 - Is renewed nuclear interest driven by political or environmental factors?05:23 - Are small modular reactors (SMRs) going to replace large, conventional nuclear reactors?07:31 - Is nuclear still a controversial topic?09:27 - Cultural legacy of nuclear in media11:49 - Antares and how Jordan got into nuclear14:16 - What does 1 Megawatt mean?15:53 - Game changing environments for Antares's SMR19:30 - Terrestrial business model20:39 - Nuclear fuel supply chain21:35 - Current state and future prediction of fuel pipeline23:42 - Safety in contested environments26:49 - Hardest technical challenges29:52 - What will it take to get to their first electron31:23 - Competition34:27 - US vs its adversaries36:29 - Navigating regulatory guidelines38:10 - Impact of Trump's Executive Orders40:03 - NRC41:12 - Are we living in a VC renaissance for nuclear?44:05 - What drives Jordan to work on nuclear?46:30 - For those afraid of nuclear • Show notes •Jordan’s socials — https://x.com/jordanbrambleAntares’ socials — https://x.com/AntaresNuclearAntares’ website — https://boomsupersonic.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/  • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.• Payload: www.payloadspace.com• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In a major shift, the U.S. government is moving to overturn a 50-year ban on civilian supersonic flight over land—a regulation that’s defined the boundaries of commercial aviation since 1973. It’s a pivotal moment for aerospace, and a timely one for this conversation with Blake Scholl, founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we dive into the political, technical, and economic forces driving the return of high-speed air travel. We cover:Why the U.S. banned supersonic flight and why that’s finally changingHow Boom plans to make supersonic flight sustainable and commercially viableThe decision to build a new engine in-house after legacy players stepped awayWhat the real economics of airline orders look like and who’s truly onboardHow regulatory shifts, geopolitical dynamics, and climate pressure intersectAnd why Blake believes faster travel isn’t just a luxury, it’s a necessity…and much more. • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:07 - Payload Pro ad01:49 - Supersonic ban repeal03:48 - Why were supersonic planes banned in the first place?08:47 - Next steps for supersonic11:10 - How long until we get a supersonic jet?12:34 - Why Blake started Boom16:00 - Why now for supersonic?18:23 - State of China's commercial supersonic space19:48 - Boom Supersonic's engines23:56 - When will the Symphony Engine having a working model?29:09 - Engineer challenges beyond the engine29:52 - Engineering the quiet boom33:49 - What does a sonic boom sound and feel like?36:11 - Vertical integration38:05 - Routes that Overture would fly first38:47 - How much capital would Boom Supersonic need to build their first plane?40:12 - What did Aerion get wrong?44:22 - What will the supersonic competition look like?45:35 - Northrop Grumman partnership49:58 - Blake's mission behind Boom52:60 - What will Boom look like in the future? • Show notes •Boom Supersonic’s socials — https://x.com/boomaeroBlake’s socials — https://x.com/bschollBoom’s website — https://boomsupersonic.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

If the next great war is fought in space, Even Rogers wants the U.S. to be ready. On this episode of Valley of Depth, the True Anomaly CEO and former Air Force weapons officer joins us to break down how he’s building autonomous systems for space superiority and why space is the next warfighting domain. A graduate of the Air Force Weapons School, Even brings rare tactical and strategic insight into how the U.S. must fight and win in orbit. In this episode, we unpack the doctrine, technology, and strategy shaping the next phase of military competition in space. We cover: Why 2007 was the turning point for space as a warfighting domainHow to think about offense, deterrence, and domain control in orbitWhat the Space Force needs—and why $60B is the real numberThe role of private industry vs. the primes in defense innovationGolden Dome, missile defense, and the future of space-based interceptors…plus how we may one day have Guardians stationed permanently in space.Check out Valley of Depth #007 on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:57 - Payload Pro01:39 - True Anomaly's mission02:51 - How Even started the company04:02 - $220m Series C05:48 - When did space become a place to defend?09:20 - The challenge to US space dominance11:16 - What made Even realize that the US was unprepared?16:05 - What does space superiority look like?17:49 - What does space warfare actually mean?21:48 - The R&D the Space Force needs24:01 - What it meant to form the Space Force27:11 - The cultural shift on the Space Force30:49 - Current US Space capabilities and gaps32:44 - Why was the Space Force budget cut despite its importance?35:06 - Primes and the US's space capabilities37:12 - Procurement for the space domain41:29 - Space components of the Golden Dome43:35 - Phases of a ballistic missile44:56 - Intercepting missiles at its boost phase46:15 - What to prioritize today for space superiority49:20 - Guardians in space51:20 - Moon & Mars52:40 - Lessons learned for the next True Anomaly mission56:01 - What is the strategic impact True Anomaly is hoping to have?57:31 - Will NASA blur the lines between civil and military? • Show notes •True Anomaly’s socials — https://x.com/the_trueanomalyEven’s socials — https://x.com/jollyrogerstaTrue Anomaly’s website — https://www.trueanomaly.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer.In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover:Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seedHow Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindsetThe difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomyWhy primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price pointHow Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoDWhat it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific…and much more.Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:07 - Company Mission & Vision3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap21:21 - Commercial Market Potential24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved26:48 - Contested Environment Design28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements32:09 - Competitive Differentiation33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures37:44 - Desired Policy Changes39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes •Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USVMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com