Victors in Grad School

The path to and through graduate school is rarely a straight line, and in a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, Hilary Murmers, LGBTQIA Coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint, shares her remarkable journey—a testament to resilience, clarity of purpose, and the power of community. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the episode begins by exploring Hilary’s academic background. After graduating from the University of Rochester with a Bachelor of Arts in English and Women’s Studies, Hilary faced early rejection in her first attempt to enter PhD programs in gender studies. Instead of feeling defeated, she embraced diverse work experiences, which led her to a pivotal summer at Girls Leadership, a camp focused on the social-emotional development of girls and gender-diverse youth. It was there, surrounded by important questions about identity and sexuality and feeling both unprepared and excited, that Hilary found her next calling: becoming a sex educator. “I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator?... That led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University.” Widener’s unique master’s program in human sexuality matched both her interests and her need for a queer-affirming, inclusive environment—a critical consideration she encourages other queer students to weigh when choosing programs. Hilary’s graduate school experience included enormous challenges. Just as she was finding her stride, she was diagnosed with a rare cancer, forcing her to take medical leave and pause her studies. Even after recovery, she faced additional bumps: shifting program structures, a new student cohort, and the abrupt move to virtual instruction during the COVID-19 pandemic. “It felt uncomfortable, it felt bumpy... there were a lot of bumps and transitions that made it uncomfortable, and a lot of decision points of ‘do I keep going?’” Through it all, Hilary credits her faculty advisor and perseverance for helping her navigate the many pivots. She also highlights the importance of clarity—knowing her “why” helped her persist: “As we face those bumps, we have to have some motivation to keep going... Graduate school can be fun, but it can also be really hard.” This episode is a must-listen for anyone considering grad school, especially those facing uncertainty or adversity. Hilary’s story reminds us that while the journey may be unpredictable, support, adaptability, and a clear sense of purpose can see you through to your goals. Tune in to the full episode to hear more about Hilary’s inspiring path—and let it fuel your own journey through graduate school!   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Hilary Murmers [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, as we always are, talking about your journey, your journey toward graduate school, through graduate school, beyond graduate school. Because it is so important to be able to look at all aspects of ways in which you can be successful. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to identify ways in which you can find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you to understand the journey that they went on, to help you better have some tools for your toolbox to understand what they went through, because what they went through might provide you with some understanding of things that you could go through, but also some things that you can prepare for as you're thinking about the future. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: So I'm really excited to be able to have our guest today. Hilary Murmurs is with us today, and Hilary is the LGBTQIA coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint. And she has her own journey, and she's had her own journey, and I'm really excited to be able to talk with her about her journey, to have her share that with you. Hillary, thanks so much for being here today. Hilary Murmers [00:01:35]: Yeah, thanks for having me, Chris. I'm happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Rochester, where you were working on that Bachelor of Arts in English and Women's Studies, and then you went off, you went off, you had got some experiences, and at some point you decided to continue on, continue on to get that master's degree. Can you take me back in time to that point in your life and what was going through your head as you made that choice that you were going to go to graduate school, and why was it the right time? Hilary Murmers [00:02:06]: Yeah, that's a great question. I tried to go to graduate school before. I ultimately did when I was graduating with my bachelor's in English and Gender Studies. I had applied to some PhD programs in gender studies and didn't get into a single one, which is interesting now. Like, I do the work I'm doing in higher ed, but it was kind of failed first attempt. And so I took a few years and worked and had a lot of different experiences. And then I had one summer where I worked at a summer camp called Girls Leadership. That's all about social emotional development and girls and gender diverse young people and being openly queer. Hilary Murmers [00:02:47]: In that space, I was receiving a lot of questions about identities and sexuality, safer sex that I frankly felt totally unprepared to answer. But I was really excited by. I was really like, this is cool and interesting to me. And so I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator? And what do careers in sex and sexuality education look like? And that led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University. It's a really unique master's degree in human sexuality. It's one of the only, like, specifically human sexuality degrees in the country. And at the time, I also had a full time job that had some tuition benefits that I could take to another institution. I was working at my alma mater at University of Rochester. Hilary Murmers [00:03:40]: And so I was like, let's go. I'm going to apply to graduate school and become a sex educator. So, yeah, I applied in spring of 2016 and started in fall of 2016. So three years after I graduated with my bachelor's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:54]: Talk to me a little bit about what you were just talking about, because you were talking about that there definitely were some things that you had to consider being queer and thinking about graduate school where you fit and what was the right fit in that regard. I know you ended up at Widener, but talk to me about as someone entering into a graduate space like that and being queer, as you mentioned, what were some of the things that you had to truly consider for yourself in regards to safety, in regards to other aspects that you were looking for in a graduate program that might help others that might be queer as well, that they might need to think about in their own journey. Hilary Murmers [00:04:33]: I think there's ways in which the institution that I went to was not the biggest question for me. Widener itself, like, is not an institution that I have a lot of attachment to, but for me, it was really dialing down into finding the program that felt like I would be getting the education that I needed and that it was a space where there were lots of queer and trans people, where there were conversations about queer and trans identities, like, baked into the program. It was a place where, like, when I looked at the materials online, frankly, I saw people who looked like me and I felt like it was a place where I could fit in. Part of my application experience was also doing a interview. So I got to go to campus and meet some current students and meet faculty members and just felt a really strong connection of this. Feels Like a place where I can be safe. I think it's also really important to name that I am white, I am cisgender. I have these other privileged identities that make safety less of an issue for me than for others in the queer community. Hilary Murmers [00:05:47]: But yeah, for me it was really about dialing into like this is exactly the thing I want to study and these are the people I want to study it with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:56]: You know, every student as they go into graduate school, go through some transitions, academic transitions, psychological transitions, social transitions. And as you transition in, you go through some transitions. But then as you're going through those transitions as well as you learn more and as you connect or disconnect, talk to me about those transitions for you. And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and also what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to set yourself up for success and maintain that success throughout the graduate school program? Hilary Murmers [00:06:32]: Yeah, so I had a bumpy ride through graduate school due to life circumstances. So when I started my program in fall of 2016, I had a full time job in Rochester, New York. And the way the program was structured is that you would spend one weekend a month in person. Widener is outside of Philly. So I was working full time during the week and then one weekend a month going down to Philly for a full weekend of classes and then doing homework in the evening or trying to get up at like 5:30 in the morning to figure out, be able to do my classwork. But my first year was maybe the easiest because of the things that came after. So I had a really rare and unexpected cancer diagnosis after completing my first year in grad

Graduate school is often described as a journey—one filled with peaks of accomplishment and valleys of self-doubt. This week’s "Victors in Grad School" episode with Dr. Lucia Juarez is a must-listen for anyone navigating the challenges of advanced study, or even just considering taking the leap into grad school. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the conversation delves deep into the realities of pursuing a graduate degree across different countries and cultures, and the unique obstacles that arise, especially when juggling family, working in a second language, and adjusting to new academic systems. Dr. Juarez shares her own candid story, from earning scholarships and moving continents to facing the all-too-common “imposter syndrome” and the myth that working harder is always the answer. One of the most powerful takeaways from Dr. Juarez is that success in graduate school is not solely about relentless effort. Instead, it’s about working smarter—not harder—by building holistic routines that protect your wellbeing, energy, and focus. Dr. Juarez’s personal wake-up call came when her all-in approach to her PhD left her physically and mentally exhausted. Recognizing the unsustainable pace, she began to reimagine her process, experimenting with practical strategies like the Pomodoro technique for focused productivity, intentional breaks, and prioritizing self-care. These experiences led her to develop the SmartPhD System, a framework that supports students on key dimensions: self-care, mindset, attainable goals, reflection, time management, planning, and positive habits. Whether you’re struggling with motivation, managing multiple responsibilities, or hitting a productivity wall, Dr. Juarez’s system offers a toolkit for making consistent, meaningful progress. The episode also touches on an often-overlooked aspect of the PhD journey—reconnecting with your original passion. Keeping sight of your purpose can help reignite motivation during tough times. Dr. Juarez encourages listeners to regularly reflect on their “why” and embrace the fullness of their journey, setbacks and all. If you’re on the verge of giving up or simply searching for ways to be more effective and balanced, this conversation is for you. Dr. Juarez’s insights and empathy remind us that you’re not alone and that small shifts can lead to significant change—not just in grad school, but throughout your career. Tune in to this episode for practical advice, reassurance, and the inspiration to build your own sustainable system for success in graduate school and beyond! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it is a journey. No matter if you are just starting to think about graduate school, maybe you've applied and gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:32]: No matter where you are, there are things that you can do at every step of the journey that can help you to be successful in that overall journey. That's why this podcast exists. It is here to help you to be able to identify maybe some stumbling blocks, maybe some things along the way that you can do, to be able to help yourself to prepare yourself well, or find things that you can do, some tools for your toolbox that will help you to be able to have that smooth sailing as you go through graduate school. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you to see things a little bit differently and also think about things in a little bit of a different way. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Lucia Juarez is with us today and Lucia has a very interesting journey and we're going to be talking about her own educational journey, but also a program that she started called SmartPhD that is helping individuals that are going for that PhD to do things smarter and to really think about what they're doing to be able to have that positive, successful experience through the PhD. I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Lucia, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:01:44]: Hi, Chris, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here because I think one of the things I would love to share with you today is how when I was doing my own PhD, I thought the only way to progress was by working harder and harder. And that really affected me. It almost broke me. So one of the things that I really want to share today is how I managed to find my way around creating a system. As you said, that work helping me and is helping others to finish the dissertation faster without compromising their well being, which is so important. It's becoming more and more important to protect that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]: Well, before we jump into the SmartPhD program, because I really want to delve into that, I want to learn a little bit about your own journey because I know you did Your undergraduate work in Argentina, because you are from Argentina. That's not where you live now. We'll have some spoilers here in just a little bit of where she lives now, but you started in Argentina, and at some point in that journey, I know that you had an opportunity or you started to think about the next steps. So you were getting that bachelor's degree, and at some point you said, I want to keep going. Bring me back to that point. And what made you decide that going to graduate school was the next step? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:02:56]: Thanks, Chris. I think, to be honest, I was always curious about teaching and researching, even before finishing my undergraduate studies. So I started doing, like, advanced courses. I was very interested in heritage conservation, and I got a scholarship as soon as I finished. So I finished in December, in January, applied for a scholarship, and in April, I was traveling to Spain to do my master's degree, and I really, really loved it. And I lived in Spain. I never actually came back home after that. So it's been more than 20 years of that. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:03:31]: And years after that, I got a scholarship to do my PhD. Related with heritage conservation as well was more like industrial heritage. I wanted to work something related with Scottish architecture and the connection with Argentina. So Scott, seems like the right place. And I got the scholarship to do it here in Edinburgh University, and I've been here since then. I have two Scottish boys. So staying here? No, I don't know for how long, but I stay here for now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: So talk to me a little bit about that transition, because every person goes through transitions, and now you went through some big transitions, going from one country to another country to a further country, going from different language models to different ways of teaching. What did you have to do as you were transitioning from your undergrad to your master's, from your master's to working, from working back into your PhD. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to remain successful through that entire educational journey? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:04:34]: I think it's successful. Sometimes it feels like a big word, Chris. I know because I've been listening some of your previous podcasts as well. There are many people in the academic world that suffer from imposter syndrome. Or we have this thing about not feeling good enough, academic enough. For me, my English was never enough. Actually, I was doubting. I am good enough in my English to be in podcast like this one, you know, because you feel like maybe because of my accent, will people really understand when I'm talking? Like, we have so many doubts. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:06]: And I was listening to some of your previous guests, I think it was Dr. Julie Snyder. She was saying something about transitions as you were saying. And she was saying like it wasn't a smart decision to stay in the campus. She was from the master to the PhD to make things easier. I think we want to look at things to make things easier for us. That's the smart way to do. But not always you have the option if you have a scholarship, you take it or you don't take it. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:37]: And, and for me, as you said before in another country, in another language, another way of doing without family support, without friends, I was like, at least I came here with my husband and that was nice company to have. And you don't feel that you need to start everything from scratch. But it was a big challenge. So when you were saying about being successful, I think sometimes it's not so linear. So there is a lot of ups and downs. And I think what we tried to do is these downs not to be going so deep. What happened to me, I think I was so deep that I needed to make a change. So when I was there at the beginning, I thought that working harder was the only option. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:06:25]: It was because to that challenges that I was saying about being in another country, writing your dissertation in another language, trying to adapt. I also had my first baby in the middle of the way. So it was super challenging. And I don't think I can talk about being successful until now. I can see in perspective because to be honest, I wasn't feeling that way at all. I was self doubting myself. I have this feeling that I wasn't good enough for my dissertation and I wasn't good enough to be a mom. It was really, really tough. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:07:03]: So I thought the only way to be success stressful was by working harder. And the problem was

Embarking on the journey of graduate school is both exciting and challenging, a truth eloquently explored in the recent episode of Victors in Grad School featuring Dr. Melissa Sreckovic, Associate Professor of Education and Director of the Honors Program at the University of Michigan-Flint. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the conversation delves into the realities of graduate education, highlighting transformative experiences and sharing practical wisdom for current and prospective students. A central theme of the discussion is the importance of mindset. Dr. Sreckovic reflects on her transitions—from classroom teacher to graduate student, then onto a doctoral program—emphasizing the need to adjust expectations and embrace continuous learning. She recounts how her drive to better support students with disabilities, particularly those with autism, sparked her ambition for advanced study. This personal motivation underlines the significant impact that meaningful experiences can have in shaping academic and career journeys. The episode also addresses the challenge of imposter syndrome, a feeling all too familiar for many graduate students, especially those who are first-generation college attendees. Dr. Sreckovic shares candidly about moments of self-doubt and the steps she took to reaffirm her sense of belonging. Importantly, she advocates for building a “community of safe people”—mentors and peers who offer guidance, encouragement, and camaraderie. This theme of community recurs throughout the conversation, with both Dr. Sreckovic and Dr. Lewis stressing the value of collaboration and finding supportive networks within graduate programs. Work-life balance and time management are further touchpoints, with Dr. Sreckovic offering practical strategies: block out dedicated study time, stay organized with to-do lists, and use even small windows of opportunity productively. She also highlights the necessity of self-care and seeking campus support services, such as counseling, to prevent burnout and maintain well-being. The conversation rounds out with reflections on the broader skills gained in graduate school, including the power of networking and the importance of listening to diverse perspectives. Dr. Sreckovic encourages prospective students to research programs, get involved, seek funding opportunities, and, above all, to believe in their own place within the academic community. If you’re contemplating graduate school or are in the midst of your own journey, this episode offers reassurance, actionable advice, and inspiration. Listen in to gather tools for your own toolbox—and remember, you’re never alone on this path to success. Tune into Victors in Grad School to hear the full conversation and gain more insights on thriving in graduate education! TRANSCRIPTS Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again. And as always, you and I are on a journey. We are on a journey. As you are preparing and thinking about graduate school, maybe you are just starting that process for yourself where you're trying to determine what you're going to do, what you want to do next to get to reach those goals that you have for yourself. Maybe you've already applied and you figured out the programs that you're applying to and you're waiting for that decision in the mail or in your email. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]: Or maybe you're already in graduate school and you're working your way through the process. You see that light at the end of the tunnel and. And you are trying to figure out what it means to be a graduate student and how you can be best successful no matter where you are. This podcast was developed to help you to be able to find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, different perspectives that can talk to you about their own experiences in going through graduate school so you can gain some tools for your toolbox to help you along your own journey. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Melissa Sarkovic is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:30]: And Melissa is an associate professor of education and the director of the Honors Program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have her here to talk about her own experience and to share that with you. Melissa, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:01:44]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: Well, I love being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University. You got that back. Bachelor of Arts in elementary education. And after graduation, you went out, you worked for a bit, you became a teacher. And at some point, at some point in those early years of teaching, you got a spark. There was something that made you start to think, maybe I want to go and get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: And why did you decide that graduate school was the. Why it was the right time for you to go to graduate school and why you ultimately decided to go to graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:02:30]: Well, after I graduated from Michigan State, I moved to Cary, North Carolina, where I began my teaching career as a third grade teacher. And right before school started the principal came to the third grade team and said, what teacher wants to be the inclusion teacher this year who wants to have the students with disabilities in their class? And I eagerly said, I do. And. And of course, that's not how things work anymore. This was a while ago. And so I had just the best experience my first year teaching students with and without disabilities in the classroom. I was able to collaborate with a special education teacher, and I realized that I still had a lot to learn about special education. And if I was going to be a really solid teacher and meet the multifaceted needs of these students in my class, that I needed more information. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:24]: I needed a different skill, skill set. And so that's what prompted me to get my master's and a focus in special education. And I went back to Michigan State for a couple reasons. It was comfortable. I already knew some of the professors there, and also because of the format, I was living in North Carolina. I wanted to stay in North Carolina, and I wanted to continue teaching. I didn't want to take a break from teaching. So I was looking for an online program that I could do mostly on the weekends so that I could really focus on my students in my classroom. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:55]: And Michigan State afforded me that opportunity. So that was why. That's why I decided to go back for my master's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:02]: Now, I know that you got that master's degree. You finished up, went back, worked with your students, engaged yourself within your. Your classroom and in your school. But then again, two years later, you had that inkling again, and you decided that you wanted to go further, and you ultimately decided to get a doctorate degree in special education in Autism Spectrum Disorder. And you. You decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. So talk to me about what made you decide that you wanted to take that next step and get the PhD versus just staying at the master's level. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:04:39]: So I taught a student with autism, and he just really changed the trajectory of me for my professional life. And I just understood him. We got each other. I was his safe person. When he moved on to fourth grade, into fifth grade, he would come back to my classroom if he was 15, feeling overwhelmed. And I realized that he was really misunderstood by other teachers in the school, by other students in the school, by parents. And he is such a great kid. He's brilliant. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:05:12]: He's so kind, so empathetic. And I thought, you know what? I can. I want to go back to school so that I can better prepare teachers to work with students like him so that they really understand the strengths and value that kiddos like him bring to the classroom. And really to help teachers foster a classroom community where everyone in their class belongs and understands their value. So that was really why I decided to go back to graduate school to get my PhD, because I really wanted to learn more about autism and how I could better support teachers in supporting their students on the spectrum. So, so when I was looking at doctoral programs, I was looking for a place that had researchers doing work on autism. So UNC Chapel Hill had some of the biggest autism researchers around the world. Dr. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:04]: Sam Odom, Dr. Gary Meziboff, Dr. Kara Hume, were doing some really phenomenal research at UNC Chapel Hill. So I decided to go for an informational session and learn a little bit more. I learned about an interdisciplinary grant that I could apply for that would fund all four years of my PhD program. And I would do research as part of that grant and I would also teach as part of that grant. And that was under Dr. Harriet Abel. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:32]: And I applied and was awarded the grant and thought, okay, well, all the stars are aligning. It looks like I'm getting my PhD. But really it was having that student in my class which really sparked my interest in thinking, you know, what, I can do more, I can make a bigger impact. And the avenue in which I do that is getting my PhD. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: I know

If you’re planning your path to graduate school—whether you’re a first-generation student, a working professional, or a lifelong learner—there’s a crucial factor you shouldn’t overlook: accreditation. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Daniel Sessions, Accreditation Officer at the National Association of Academic Excellence, to demystify accreditation and explain why it matters so much to your graduate journey. Understanding Accreditation—Your Assurance of Quality Dr. Lewis opens the conversation by highlighting how many students overlook accreditation while searching for the right program. Daniel Sessions breaks it down simply: think of accreditation as a seal of approval on your education. It stands for legitimate quality assurance and long-term value. When an institution or a program is accredited, it’s been vetted by rigorous standards—giving you peace of mind that your time and investment will pay off after graduation. The Difference Between Institutional and Programmatic Accreditation One of the most important clarifications in the episode is the distinction between institutional and programmatic accreditation. Institutional accreditation is a broad assessment of a whole university or college. Programmatic accreditation, however, dives deeper into evaluating a specific program or area of study—often required for careers that rely on licensure or specific professional credentials, such as healthcare, accounting, or law. Why You Need to Care About Accreditation Dr. Lewis and Sessions stress that choosing an unaccredited or questionably accredited program can have real consequences, such as ineligibility for professional licensing, difficulty transferring credits, or even trouble qualifying for financial aid or future educational opportunities. Accreditation isn’t just about prestige—it can impact your ability to practice in your field after graduating. Essential Questions for Prospective Grad Students Sessions encourages prospective students to ask admissions officers what role accreditation plays in their programs, verify accreditation status with official accrediting bodies, and consider how the school’s reputation is reflected in the industry. Trust but verify—don’t be afraid to dig deeper! Ready to Learn More? Listen to the Full Podcast Whether you’re just starting to weigh your grad school options or you’re narrowing your choices, this episode offers practical advice and insider insight that will empower you to make informed decisions. Listen to the full episode of "Victors in Grad School" to hear Daniel Sessions’ personal journey, tangible tips, and deep dive into academic excellence. Your pathway to graduate success starts with asking the right questions. Don’t miss this essential conversation—give the episode a listen today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together as you are going through and figuring out those steps that you are taking to prepare yourself to go in, go through, and even go out of attending graduate school. And that's why this show exists. It's here to be able to give you some hints, some tips, some tools, some things that you can learn from that'll help you to find success in that graduate school journey. I love being able to sit down and talk with you every week because there are things that you can do right now, things that you can do to prepare yourself, to make sure you're asking the right questions and making sure that you're prepared for identifying the right schools for you if you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: If you're at the very beginning or that you're making sure that you know what to do as you're going through that school and as you're looking at the light at the end of the tunnel. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you do just that. And today we got another great guest. Daniel Sessions is with us. And Daniel is an accreditation officer for the national association of Academic Excellence Incorporated. And we're going to talk about that because I've talked about accreditation in the past. If you've ever gone to any of the webinars that I've done or you've heard me talk about. Things to look for when you're looking at schools, when you're considering different schools. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And accreditation is one of those things that not everybody asks about. It's kind of in the background. Sometimes you see it on a website, but it is something that is important, and it's something that you should know about. So we're gonna be talking about that as well. But first and foremost, I'm really excited to have Daniel here. We're gonna have him talk a little bit about his own experiences as well. So, Daniel, thanks so much for being here. Daniel Sessions [00:01:59]: Thanks, Dr. Lewis, for having me. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today, to have you talk about not only accreditation, but some of your own graduate school journey. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Southern Illinois University and then you graduated Went out into that workforce, graduated, got some experience, and at some point you made a decision, you made a decision that you wanted to continue and go on and get further education. Can you bring me back to that point and what made you make the decision that you wanted to take that next step? Daniel Sessions [00:02:31]: So I have to give a shout out to an identity piece that I have, and that is not only a first generation undergraduate student, but a first generation graduate student. And so at that point, where I decided to go back to graduate school was I had seen the benefits that formal undergraduate education had given me as I entered, entered into the workforce. And I knew I had a taste of the nice sweet fruit. And I realized that it could only be better if I furthered my education and deepened my understanding in a very specific specialization area. And so I went on about a 12 month experience process where I tried to decide, well, what was it? There are many different areas that you could go study that you could elect to do. In addition and above and beyond that, where could I go? And so ultimately I decided to enroll and go to graduate school to better my life and to give myself not only some upward mobility in a credential perspective, but, but also just to gain further light and knowledge in my life so that I could be the best professional that I could be through advanced education. Because I felt like I was made for that and I wanted to experience that myself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]: Now you just talked about that. You went through that process of looking at programs, looking at schools, figuring out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go, and I guess bring me to that point, talk to me about what you did as you were looking and, and exploring those different schools. And I know you ultimately decided to attend Northwestern University to get a Master of Science in Strategic Communication and Law. What made you decide that Northwestern was the right school? And what made you decide that Strategic Communication and Law was the right program? Daniel Sessions [00:04:01]: So I was at a pivotal point in my adult career where I had spent the first just over a decade in clinical healthcare and had exited clinical healthcare to start teaching human anatomy and physiology at a local technical college. And I really had a departure point that I was grappling with. It was either double down and go back and go to graduate school in the form of clinical medicine, or specialize in a different area. And I loved working in education and I knew that higher education administration was something that I could see myself having a very long and rewarding career on. Now, around that same time frame, we were seeing a lot of change in the higher education space. And A lot of change in the regulatory space as it relates to oversight of education, the 2008 through 2010 and 11 timeframe. And I decided ultimately not to pursue and continue to pursue clinical healthcare, but to specialize in an area that would help me in higher education administration and strategic communications. I've always liked to talk, I've always liked to present. Daniel Sessions [00:04:57]: And it was just something that I felt as though was part of who I am and what I do. And so to be able to rally the allegiance of my associates through words and present material and clear and concise manners was something that I was looking for. And so as I evaluated Northwestern and suburban Chicago, not only the reputation of the institution, but also the program, as I evaluated it, just seemed like it fit my needs very well. And I was very excited to jump in with both feet. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:23]: Now, every student, when they go from undergraduate into graduate work, there is a transition that you go through, a transition in the way in which faculty are expecting things of you, transitions in the way that you have to read, in the way that you have to write, in the way that you have to do a lot of different things. You were successful, you came into the program, you got through the program. As you made that transition from undergrad to workforce and then workforce back into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your en

Embarking on graduate school is more than just an academic decision—it’s a deeply personal journey marked by self-discovery, challenge, growth, and, ultimately, transformation. In the recent episode of Victors in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis sat down with Dr. Jonathan Bartels, Assistant Professor of Education at the University of Michigan-Flint, to explore the realities of pursuing advanced degrees and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Dr. Bartels’ candid reflection on his path—from an undergraduate at East Carolina University to earning his master’s while teaching, and then pursuing a doctorate at UNC Chapel Hill—sheds light on several key themes that resonate with anyone considering or currently navigating graduate education. 1. The Nonlinear Nature of Academic Paths One of the central takeaways is that the journey to and through graduate school isn’t always mapped out from the start. Dr. Bartels never planned to pursue a master’s or a doctorate—he was fueled by a desire for deeper intellectual engagement and the encouragement of mentors who saw potential in him. His story reassures listeners that it’s okay—and often beneficial—to let curiosity and passion guide your next steps, even if they diverge from your original plan. 2. The Power of Mentorship and Community Dr. Bartels emphasizes how pivotal faculty relationships were to his development, especially choosing graduate programs based on the research interests and support of specific professors. Connecting with advisors and building a supportive cohort community can ease transitions and provide both professional opportunities and emotional sustenance. 3. Managing Mindset and Embracing Growth Imposter syndrome and self-doubt are common companions in graduate school. Dr. Bartels opens up about normalizing these feelings and maintaining perspective: your presence in a program is evidence of your worth, and challenging moments are natural signs of growth. Reframing experiences from “jumping hoops” to opportunities for learning and self-betterment is key for long-term success. 4. Balancing Life and Prioritizing Well-Being Graduate study often means juggling academics, work, family, and personal commitments. Dr. Bartels offers practical advice—set boundaries, proactively communicate with faculty, make time for rest, and remember that self-care is not a luxury but a necessity for sustainable, effective learning. 5. Purpose-Driven Learning Most crucially, Dr. Bartels reminds us to continually revisit our “why” for pursuing graduate education. Anchoring your studies in your personal and professional aspirations provides resilience, motivation, and a sense of direction to weather the inevitable challenges. Whether you’re contemplating graduate school or already in the trenches, this podcast episode is packed with honest advice and encouragement. Listen in to gain insight and inspiration for your own academic journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: Experts about what it takes to find. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are working together on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is. As you go from your undergraduate degree to looking at the possibility of a graduate degree, or maybe you've already applied, you got an accepted, or maybe you're even in a graduate program now. This continuum that you're on is definitely a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]: You're going to learn a ton along this whole pathway. But there are things that you can do right now to prepare yourself better for the future that you want to attain. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to. To identify ways in which you can be successful in this graduate journey that you're on. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you in many ways to learn things that they may not have known along the way that they had to learn the hard way, and maybe gain some additional insight that can help you as you go through your own journey. This week we got another great guest with us. Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: Jonathan Bartles is with us. And Dr. Bartles is an assistant professor of education at the University of Michigan, Flint, and he has his own educational journey that he went on to get his doctorate and now be teaching at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to be able to have him here today and to have him share some of his own experiences. Jonathan, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:01:46]: Thanks so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: It is my pleasure, really excited to have you here today to be able to talk about this journey that you went on. And I, as I said, it is a journey. And I know you did your undergraduate work at East Carolina University. You stayed on for a master's degree there and then went on to get a doctorate. Every person comes to thinking about graduate school in a little bit different way. And I guess for you, I would love to take you back to that point, take you back to those days at East Carolina University where you were getting that Bachelor of Science degree in English Language Arts and Teacher education. And at some point you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on into a graduate career degree, and you made that Choice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:32]: So talk to me about that. What made you choose that graduate education was the next step and that you were going to continue on? Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:39]: Yeah, absolutely. So it actually wasn't part of my plan. I graduated with my undergraduate and I started teaching. And my plan was to. I'm going to go teach and I'm going to enjoy it. And I loved teaching. The first year of teaching is. We often refer to it as kind of treading water. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:51]: It's. You're trying to, you know, just figure everything out in your own classroom. So I was doing that and that was really fulfilling and time consuming. But at the end of that first year, I realized that there's a level of intellectual engagement that happens at a university campus that doesn't happen at like a high school campus. It's not to say I didn't have brilliant colleagues and phenomenal students who were pushing me intellectually, but there was a piece that I felt like that I realized I was missing from being on the university campus. And so I thought about it and kind of looked around and decided to stick with East Carolina University to go back and work on my master's while I was continuing to teach, to get back into some of those academic conversations. And I was coming to get involved with different research projects and things like that. And so it was just a way for me to keep that type of thing going. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:03:35]: And that was really my drive to. That sent me back to grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:39]: Well, you just mentioned that you stayed on at East Carolina University and getting a Master of Arts in Education in English. And I guess one of the questions that I have is taking you back to when you made that decision that you were going to continue on. There are a lot of different Master of Arts programs that are out there, lots of different English programs that are out there. You chose to go back to your undergraduate institution to be able to get that degree. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself. Maybe what you were looking for in a degree and what made you ultimately choose to stay at the same university for your master's. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:16]: There are a ton of options. And within North Carolina, there are phenomenal schools and colleges of education that I could have selected from and still been on that wonderful in state tuition that they had there at that time. I decided to stay with East Carolina because of the faculty. There was one particular faculty within English education that I had already kind of been doing a little bit of work with. And it was somebody that we had a lot of similar interests and connections. And so for me, that was my driving force. For staying with ECU was. His name's Dr. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:44]: Todd Finley. Really interesting work that he does with different types of emotional awareness and technology and looking how technology is influencing ed. And I wanted to continue my work with him. And so really it was about really the faculty and the faculty's research interests that kind of made me want to stay there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: Now you stayed at East Carolina, got your degree, and at some point during that point in time, you made a big shift in deciding to completely move outside of teaching at the K12 level to going beyond. And you decided to apply for PhD programs. Talk to me about that decision for yourself. And you ultimately decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Again, lots of PhD programs that are out there. So talk to me about that decision making process as well. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:05:33]: Absolutely. Just like going to get my Master's, I wasn't planning to get a PhD. I wasn't planning to go in those directions. But as I was working on my master's, as I mentioned, I was becoming more involved in research projects and I was getting more and more into that. And I really loved teaching. I loved the school I was at. I kept saying, like, I don't know why they're paying me for this. I just feel like I'm

Are you thinking about graduate school, or perhaps already navigating its hills and valleys? The latest episode of Victors in Grad School is a must-listen for anyone considering this transformative step. Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Amanda Seney, the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan-Flint, who shares her unique path through higher education and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Amanda’s story is one of perseverance, growth, and self-discovery. After a significant gap between starting and finishing her undergraduate studies, Amanda returned to academia more determined than ever. She didn’t just finish her degree—she flourished, embracing the experience by double-majoring and then moving seamlessly into a graduate program. For Amanda, the decision to pursue graduate studies wasn’t just about credentials; it was about personal growth and opening new doors, even when the destination was unknown. Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school, Amanda noticed a significant shift in expectations—not just from instructors, but from herself. She discusses the journey from following directions to taking initiative, where research projects became opportunities for self-direction and exploration. Amanda shares how this process required greater personal accountability, self-advocacy, and time management—skills that don’t just make for successful students, but for resilient professionals. A recurring theme in Amanda’s reflection is the presence of “imposter syndrome” and self-doubt—a feeling familiar to almost every grad student. Her advice? Lean on support systems, whether it’s faculty, peers, or campus resources. Amanda credits her relationships with instructors and the collaborative atmosphere at UM-Flint as key to overcoming her doubts and achieving her goals. For non-traditional students balancing family, work, and school, Amanda is candid about the struggles of finding balance and sets realistic expectations: it’s not about perfection, but doing your best with the support you have. Perhaps most eye-opening is Amanda’s emphasis on the importance of revision in graduate-level writing, advocating for multiple drafts and peer feedback. She reminds us that writing well is a process—and seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness. As Amanda’s story reveals, graduate school is not just an academic pursuit, but a journey of self-discovery, resilience, and community. If you’re pondering this path, want practical tips, or just need encouragement, tune in to this enlightening episode. Amanda’s journey isn’t just inspiring—it’s a roadmap for anyone aspiring to thrive in grad school. Take a listen and equip yourself for your own victorious journey in graduate school!     TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to be able to learn from others in their experiences to help you in the journey that you're on. It truly is a journey because no matter where you are, there are things that you can do along the path to be able to prepare you, as well as to help you to find success as you go through that experience for yourself. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk about the graduate school journey that they had for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: Things that worked, things that maybe didn't work, things that they learned along the way that can give you some tools for your own toolbox and help you on the journey that you're on. This week, we got another great guest. Amanda Senti is with us today. And Amanda is the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan, Flint. She works with graduate students on writing and helps them with the journey into being a graduate school writer. Because it is different. It is different in that journey from undergrad to grad, there are different expectations. Not only expectations from faculty, but expectations you have to put on yourself as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: And Amanda is here to help students along that pathway. And she learned a lot of the things that she's helping students with in her own journey. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experience and to have her share some of those today. Amanda, thanks so much for being here today. Amanda Seney [00:01:58]: Well, thank you so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, you made a choice. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on. You wanted to get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point and tell me more about that decision and why you made that decision to continue your education. Amanda Seney [00:02:23]: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that is kind of a long story. I guess I should say that I started undergrad right after high school, but I had also gotten married at the same time. And my husband was in the military. We were out of state. There was a lot going on. Amanda Seney [00:02:35]: And then we had kids, and I was not able to finish my undergrad at that time. And so I had a very long gap in between when I first started and then when I came back to finish. It was about 14 years before I came back to U of M to finish my undergrad. So then I started, and I think I had something like 90 some credits that I. I brought with me. I transferred in. And so I really could have finished fairly quickly. But I was so much enjoying the undergraduate experience and I was learning so much about myself and just about the world in general that I thought, well, okay, while I'm here, I also think, I think I'll do a double major because I'm not done with this undergrad stuff yet. Amanda Seney [00:03:13]: And so I decided, okay, I'm going to do a double major. And so that extended my time a little bit. And I think it ended up being about two and a half years to finish my undergrad. But then I still just didn't feel like I was done because I was growing so much, just so much as an individual, as a member of society, as a. As an employee that I wasn't ready to be done yet. And I wanted to see what I could do at a graduate level. And so I just decided to make that kind of seamless transition at the time since I was kind of in the swing of school anyway at that point. So that was why I decided to keep going. Amanda Seney [00:03:43]: And I just thought it would open more doors for me. I didn't know what those doors were going to be, but I wanted to see where it would go. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:49]: So you went to that undergraduate degree. You made the decision to go to graduate school. As a lot of students do, they have to figure out for themselves what's the best program, program. Where should I go? You made a decision to stay at the University of Michigan Flint to go into a graduate program in English language and literature and continue your education there. Talk to me about that process for yourself and that decision for yourself. And what made you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Amanda Seney [00:04:18]: Well, partly it was. I just really like the university. For one thing. I know that we have so many support system, and at that point I was familiar with so many of the resources. I also really liked the campus job that I had, which was working at the writing center. And I knew I could continue doing that because it is a great place and I love it and I wanted to be able to stay there. So that was part of the draw for the University of Michigan. I mean, honestly, goodness, it's just the quality of instruction is so high because I have been in other places, and they were also very good. Amanda Seney [00:04:45]: But I really like what I had seen here. I liked that I knew they were going to be smaller class sizes so that I could continue those relationships that I had built with instructors. There was just so much with that now. Why the English language and literature in particular? I knew I wanted something in the humanities because I figured that's just what's close to my heart, and that's where I wanted to go, I guess. And I was also definitely working on creative writing at the time. And so that English language and literature gave me a lot more opportunity to do creative projects, which was important to me at that time, period. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]: So every student that goes to graduate school has to make a transition. I mentioned at the beginning that there's transition in expectations and how you're taught, but also there's transitions in how you have to write, how you have to think, how you have to process. There's a lot of different ways of learning that happens as you go into graduate school and go through graduate school. Talk to me about those transitions for yourself. Because you found success, you got through the degree, you went through that process. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? Amanda Seney [00:05:52]: I think one of the big things was it was a mental transition for me because in undergrad, you're used to doing what other people are telling you to do in order to get the degree. And like you, the instructor tells you what they want to see and you do that. And there is a lot of that in graduate school, too, but ther

Are you considering graduate school or already planning your path forward? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School,” hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, is a must-listen for anyone pondering the next academic step. This week’s guest, Scott Roy—Registrar at the University of Michigan-Flint and graduate of both UM-Flint (undergraduate) and Eastern Michigan University (graduate)—shares a candid, relatable perspective on what it takes to succeed in graduate school and beyond. The Many Paths to Graduate School Scott’s journey reminds us that there’s no single route to grad school. Originally envisioning a law career, he pivoted to history after discovering his passion. This decision wasn’t made lightly; he evaluated the available programs in Michigan, taking into account not only program content but also logistical factors like proximity to family and program structure. Scott’s story highlights how practical considerations (such as avoiding an extensive thesis in favor of a final exam) and personal life (being close to his partner) can shape academic choices. Graduate School Is a Different Beast One of the strongest themes in the episode is the significant jump in academic rigor and expectations at the graduate level. Scott describes being “a deer in the headlights” during his first semester—faced with daunting reading lists and heavier workloads, often while juggling a job. His advice? Go in prepared for a step up in both self-discipline and time management. The episode offers heartfelt reassurance that feeling overwhelmed is normal, and that students do eventually adapt and find their rhythm. Finding Balance and the Importance of Support Scott is candid about the challenges of balancing work, school, and personal relationships—and about sometimes falling short. He urges prospective grad students to carve out space for self-care, mental health, and social connection. Loneliness can be a reality, especially with night classes and busy schedules, but joining campus organizations and building relationships with peers and professors can make the journey less isolating. Skills for Life, Not Just for a Job Description Even though Scott ultimately found his career path outside of museums and history, he credits his graduate studies with teaching him valuable skills—like research, problem solving, and personal growth—that enhanced his qualifications and shaped his perspective. It’s a reminder that grad school is about much more than a degree. Whether you’re just thinking about grad school or already on your way, this episode is packed with wisdom, encouragement, and practical advice. Tune in to “Victors in Grad School” to hear Scott’s full story and gather the fuel you need for your own journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to have an opportunity to sit down, to talk to you, to work with you as you are going through this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school has to go through a journey for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Whether you are at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about whether grad school is right for you, or you are applying right now, or maybe you've already applied and gotten accepted, There are many different places in this journey where you can do things to make the experience even easier. And then as you get into graduate school, there are things that you can do to be able to make yourself even more successful. That's what this podcast is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to allow for you an opportunity to be able to gain some tools for your own toolbox, but also allow for you to be able to prepare yourself a little bit better for the graduate school journey that you're on and that you will be on in the future. This week we've got another great guest. Scott Roy is with us today, and Scott works at the University of Michigan, Flint in the office of the Registrar. And Scott did his undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint, and then he went off and got a graduate degree in history at Eastern Michigan University. We're going to be talking about his own educational journey and allowing you to learn a little bit more from him. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: And I'm really excited to have him here. Scott, thanks so much for being here today. Scott Roy [00:02:04]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]: It is my pleasure having you here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk to you. I mentioned the fact that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, going through your undergraduate work, you made a choice. You made a choice that you wanted to continue your education. Take me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head as you figured out for yourself that graduate school was the next step. Scott Roy [00:02:35]: So I actually started my undergraduate degree not knowing what I wanted to do. I went into my Undergraduate thinking. I was going to go to law school. And then as I was choosing a major for my bachelor's degree, my advisor had recommended either English or history because he said a lot of law students chose those as their majors. So I went with history because that's the topic that I've always enjoyed. My family and I, we've always visited battlefields on vacation. We were Civil War reenactors. So history was just my thing. Scott Roy [00:03:05]: So I selected history. And about maybe two years or so into my degree, I decided that I didn't really want to be a lawyer. And so I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did actually decide that I wanted to do something in the history field. So I went to grad school with the idea of either becoming a professor or doing something in museums. So when I got to be about a junior, I started looking at different schools. There were only four schools in the state of Michigan that had history programs at the graduate level. So I was between Central Michigan University and Eastern. Scott Roy [00:03:40]: I ended up going down to Eastern. And then actually when I got to Eastern, I found out really that my niche was going into museums. So when I was at Eastern, my degree was in. But I also got a graduate certificate in Cultural Museum Studies. During that time, I was an intern down at the Historical Museum down in Monroe. And I got to do a lot of cool things down there. I got to lead tours, and I got to create different exhibits, do a lot of the curatorship at the museum there. And I realized that was kind of what I wanted to do with my life. Scott Roy [00:04:13]: So I stayed through graduate school, went through, got my master's, spent a couple years actually after graduate school trying to find a job and in the history field. And so I started out, right out of grad school. I started working at apartments. I was actually a leasing consultant leasing apartments. I did end up getting a job in a museum for about four years up in Frankenmuth. There's a military museum that I was a curator at. And then eventually, once I kind of settled down and I started to have kids and have a family, decided that I needed a more stable job. That's one thing I found actually, in my field is that museum jobs aren't always very stable. Scott Roy [00:04:51]: They depend on millages and grants and different fundraising. And so I decided at that point that I needed to find something more stable. That's how I ended up at U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: So, Scott, you mentioned the fact that you looked at a number of different schools when you were deciding on where you wanted to go to graduate school and you ultimately chose to go to Eastern Michigan University. Bring me back to that point. And when you were looking at different schools, what were you looking for and what made Eastern the right fit for you? Scott Roy [00:05:19]: So, so I originally was planning on going to U of M Flint actually for grad school because that's where I had gone for my undergrad. But like I said before, there were only four schools in the state that had a history degree and I knew that's what I wanted to pursue. U of M, Ann Arbor was an option. I didn't really look a whole lot at that. Part of the reason was because that they required 100 page thesis. I realized that I didn't want to necessarily get my doctorate degree. And those thesis tracks were more for students that were pursuing a doctorate. Eastern and Central had options where rather than writing the thesis, you could take an exam. Scott Roy [00:05:56]: And so I chose Eastern partly because you could take the exam, but also because my wife at the time, she was my girlfriend, but we ended up getting engaged. She got a job down in Metro Detroit. So if I was up at Central, I was going to be several hours away. Being down at Eastern, I could be closer to her. So that was an easy choice for me and I'm glad that I chose the route that I did. So Eastern, I ended up taking a four hour exam. They gave me a list of 40 books during my last semester and I had to go through and basically memorize the arguments made in these books. And then I had to do a four hour exam about a historiography on it. Scott Roy [00:06:32]: So that's, that's why I chose Eastern was because I absolutely hate writing. The thought of writing 100 pages sounded nauseating to me. So I decided

Are you considering graduate school, currently enrolled, or maybe just accepted? No matter where you are in your academic journey, the transition into graduate studies is filled with both challenges and opportunities. That’s the theme at the heart of this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School,” where Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Julie Snyder, the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint, to unpack her path from bachelor’s to master’s to earning a PhD. Changing Directions and Embracing New Opportunities Dr. Snyder’s story is a powerful reminder that it’s okay to change direction. Originally planning to attend law school, she found herself drawn to the world of student affairs thanks to a mentor’s guidance—even at the last minute. Her advice for those making similar choices is simple and clear: don’t get boxed in by traditional timelines or expectations. Sometimes, taking the road less traveled leads to the most fulfilling outcomes. Transition and Mindset Shifts in Graduate School One of the main themes discussed is the significant mindset shift required in graduate studies. The workload becomes more rigorous and independent. Impostor syndrome is real, especially when it feels like you’re surrounded by “geniuses”—but, as Dr. Snyder notes, hard work, not innate brilliance, is the ultimate key to success. She emphasizes acknowledging your struggles and leaning on your peers, admitting you can’t (and shouldn’t) do it all alone. The Power of Mentorship and Peer Support Mentorship and support systems are fundamental. Dr. Snyder credits mentors with helping her identify opportunities—including her eventual career pivot—and prioritize demands when all tasks seem equally urgent. She also stresses the importance of relying on your peers, sharing resources, and working together, especially when preparing for comprehensive exams or tackling difficult coursework. Balancing Life, Work, and Academics Dr. Snyder also addresses the balancing act required in grad school: managing coursework, work obligations, family, friends, and personal well-being. It’s not easy, but she assures listeners it’s possible by knowing your priorities, using time management strategies, and, crucially, not losing sight of what you love outside of academics. Final Thoughts If you’re seeking inspiration and practical advice for your graduate journey, this episode is packed with candid stories and actionable insights. Dr. Snyder’s honesty about the ups and downs, her encouragement to pursue opportunities, and her message that “it is all doable” make this a must-listen for any current or aspiring grad student. Ready for more wisdom, support, and real talk about surviving and thriving in grad school? Be sure to tune in to this episode of “Victors in Grad School,” and join the ongoing conversation about success, support, and self-discovery in graduate education.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey. As you are considering graduate school, you're looking at graduate school. Maybe you've applied and you're and gotten accepted. Maybe you're getting ready to start. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: No matter where you are, you are truly on a journey. Because no matter if you are at the very beginning just starting to think about it, you're in graduate school or maybe you see that light at the end of the tunnel, there are things that you can do all the way through this journey to be able to prepare yourself and to help yourself be more successful in the journey itself. That's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to talk with you, to work with you as you are going through this journey, to be able to provide you with some, I'm going to call them, tools for your toolbox to help you to think about things in a little bit different way. We do that by introducing you to people that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, and they have had the opportunity to be able to learn some things along the way. Maybe positive, maybe negative, you never know. But we. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: But today we got another great guest. Dr. Julie Snyder is with with us today. And Dr. Snyder is the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And Julie has three different degrees. So we're going to be talking about the journey that she went on from getting that bachelor's degree to that master's, that doctorate, and kind of learning along the way. So I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: Julie, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:01:41]: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor just to have the opportunity to share life experiences with graduate students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to talk to you as well. And I guess first and foremost, what I'd love to do is be able to go back in time because I know that you did your bachelor's degree at Duquesne University, and during that experience, I'm guessing based on the fact that you got a bachelor's in political science and then knowing what you got your master's degree in, I'm guessing you got a little involved in that undergraduate experience and you made A choice to go on and get a master's degree in student affairs and higher education. And I guess. Take me back to that point. Go back in time. Take me back to that moment, that moment that you figured out for yourself that the next step for you was graduate school. What was going through your head and what made you choose that graduate school was that next step? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:32]: Well, I actually went to Duquesne with the intention of pursuing a professional degree. It was. I wanted to go to law school. And so that next step was always in. In my mindset. And Duquesne ran a program where you could start law school in your senior year of your undergraduate degree. And so I was also. I grew up in the Detroit area, so I picked a campus that was far from home in its location in Pittsburgh. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:57]: And so while I was there as a student, I took a. At a law firm while getting involved on campus. And it was very late in my senior year, and it was the night before the lsat, and I was at an event, so I was involved in campus activities, and I was at an event and just really struggling with this idea that I didn't want to go to law school, that it didn't. Practicing the law didn't have the impact, I guess, that I wanted to have when I originally thought about it. And so I was sitting with a mentor, which is a key piece in this. In the process of pursuing graduate work, a mentor who said, do you know you could do this career path and stay within higher education and pursue the master's degree? And I had no idea. And so that was the start of the process. It was my senior year, and I was behind schedule on timelines, but I refused to take a gap year. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:03:52]: And so in that journey, I stumbled into a graduate program that accepted me late out in Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And that's how I ended up enrolled there, which was a. I believe everything happens for a reason. And it was a fantastic campus and a fantastic opportunity for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: You know, I think it's important to. To hear what you just said, because sometimes people feel that they are bound into the. The regular norms of applying, of being considered, and if you're outside of that, that there are no options. And what I just heard you say was, no, that is not the case. You know, you can think about things that are outside the norm. To be honest, I did the same thing. I graduated in December of a year, went to a similar program to what you did, but the traditional model at that time for us was a fall start. So there were very few options or very few programs that were willing to take in those students mid year. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]: So I guess what I'm saying to you as you are considering graduate school is that don't let the traditional model always constrain you to what you consider when you're thinking about graduate school, because there may be other options for you and it may take you down a little bit of a different path, but still get you to the same point at the end. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:05:13]: Absolutely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:14]: Now I know that you got through that program and you made that transition. And I guess before we talk about your doctorate, because I know you went to the doctorate. Further down the road is every student, every student, as they are considering graduate school and moving into a graduate school, there is a transition that you go through. Just like when you go from high school into undergrad, you know, you have to learn what it means to be a college student when you go to graduate school. Again, it is a very different type of way of learning. It's a different. There's different expectations, there's different ways of being taught. So talk to me about that transition for you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to find success throughout the entire journey? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:06:00]: There's absolutely transition. And I can definitely talk about my own experience. I can also say as a supervisor of hundreds of graduate students, that it is real and it is legitimate. And I a

Embarking on the journey of graduate school can be daunting, invigorating, and transformative all at once. On a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, listeners were treated to an inspiring and candid conversation with Antonio Riggs, Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan-Flint. Antonio pulled back the curtain on his own educational journey, offering insights that resonate with anyone considering – or currently undertaking – graduate studies. It’s a Journey, Not a Sprint One of the key themes Antonio shares is that graduate education is a deeply personal and winding journey. Each student’s path is unique, shaped by individual aspirations, challenges, and life circumstances. Antonio himself returned to graduate school after working professionally, motivated by seeing mentors advance in their fields through further education. He emphasizes the importance of setting milestones, staying adaptable, and recognizing that detours and delays are a natural part of the process. Sometimes, reaching your goals will take longer than anticipated, and that’s perfectly okay. Mindset Shifts and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome Graduate-level learning demands a shift in mindset. Antonio candidly discusses the challenge of managing new expectations, particularly the leap from undergraduate to graduate research and academic rigor. He opens up about his own experiences grappling with imposter syndrome and self-doubt, reassuring listeners that these feelings are common. Antonio’s advice? Communication is key. Leaning on faculty, advisors, and your support system can make all the difference. Balancing Act: Life, Work, and Study A recurring message is the challenge of balancing academics, professional responsibilities, and personal life. Antonio shares practical strategies—from effective time management to building a strong support network. Whether it’s relying on family, collaborating with a partner, or carving out personal time for stress relief, his stories illustrate that success is built on both determination and the willingness to ask for help. Practical Skills and Lifelong Networking Throughout the episode, Antonio highlights the invaluable practical skills he developed in graduate school, particularly the power of networking, strong communication, and the ability to apply research and best practices in real-world settings. These aren’t just academic skills—they’re lifelong assets that have continued to serve him professionally and personally. Ready to Be Inspired? If you’re contemplating graduate school, already in the trenches, or guiding students in higher education, this episode is packed with wisdom, relatability, and encouragement. Tune in to hear Antonio Riggs’ full story and walk away with practical advice for finding your stride and building your own “toolbox” for success. Listen to the full episode and start your own journey with insight and support! Ready to explore more? Visit the University of Michigan-Flint’s graduate program offerings and tune in to Victors in Grad School for more inspiring stories and tips. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity every week to be able to talk through things, issues, concerns that you may have, and to be able to help you to be able to develop some tools for your toolbox, find some new tools for your toolbox, and identify ways in which you can be successful in this journey that you're on. I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every individual that is thinking about graduate school, that's applied to graduate school, that maybe is in graduate school, are going through their own individual journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: You may have similar things happen to you or alongside with other students in your cohort or in your classes together, but you're going to be dealing with them in the way that works for you. And what my goal is, is every week is to be able to provide you with some new resources, some new things that may allow for you to be able to find more success and more success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that help have gone to graduate school before you and have learned some things along the way. Some of the things might be positive, some of the things might be negative. You never know. But I have an opportunity to be able to learn from them and from what they learned so that you will have an easier time down the road as well. So this week we got another great guest. Antonio Riggs is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Antonio is the Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan Flint. And he's been at the University of Michigan flint for over 11 years now. But he's also had a wealth of other opportunities along the way that he has done, working with students and helping students in many different ways. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to him about his own educational journey to help you in yours. Antonio, thanks so much for being here today. Antonio Riggs [00:02:17]: Hey, thank you for having me. Greatly appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: It is completely my pleasure. Really enjoy being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I'm really excited to learn a little bit more about yours. And I know that you did all three of your degrees at Saginaw Valley State University, but you did your bachelor's degree in business administration. And then you went off, you worked for a little bit, but at some point, at some point in that time between graduation and about four years later, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on and work toward a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point where you made that decision for yourself. What made you decide that? And why was it the right time to go to graduate school? Antonio Riggs [00:03:06]: I guess during the time I graduated and I went to work at another institution, and a couple of my mentors were, they've completed their degrees, their MSAs, Master of Arts and Sciences degrees in Student affairs administration. And when you're around people that are in positions that you aspire to be in, through the process of networking, you learn about the different career paths, you learn about the degree programs, and people share their insights. And I kind of had a set to say, hey, I wanted to get a master's degree in the beginning, I wanted to go business all the way up, right? Get a business degree, get an MBA and then get a PhD in business and teach us some core university teaching, you know, business classes. But then I didn't go that route. I really stayed in student affairs. I enjoyed it. And I had lifelong friends that I've met in the student affairs arena. And so I kind of was like, hey, this is my passion. Antonio Riggs [00:04:01]: That's where I want to be. And so I was already a student at Saginaw Valley. I knew the program, I knew the buildings under the layout. So it was what, familiar territory for me. And so I saw that they had kicked off a Master of Arts and Sciences with certificate in Student Affairs Administration. And so that's what led me into that role. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]: Before I leave this educational journey that you were on, one question that I have is, I know that after you finished that program, you again, you went, you worked for a few more years working at a couple of other institutions, and then at some point, you decided to go back to school to get an education specialist degree. Talk to me about that. Why an education specialist? Antonio Riggs [00:04:46]: I am a person that like to set goals, and in my goal setting, I like to see my milestones. And so some people will say, yeah, just go jump in a PhD program and, you know, knock out the four to five years and get it over with. But for me, Saginaw Valley, you know, kicked off that MSA program, and I think it was a feeder going into EDD programs, right? The Doctorate of Education programs. And so I think they collaborated with Central, where, hey, you get your specialist from Saginaw Valley, you Can go right to Central Michigan, no issues. Every credit will transfer, and you can knock out the educational doctorate. And so that's kind of where I was at with that mindset of, boom, I do this, I see my milestone, knocked it out in two years and then move forward and go and finish that and educational doctorate degree. And so it's still a process. Things come up and you kind of life takes its bends and turns, but as long as you kind of stay focused on the prize and you complete it, I think you'll still be fine. Antonio Riggs [00:05:54]: And so my original goal was to complete my doctoral degree by 33. And so as life, you know, moved on, I'm 10 years past the deadline now, right. But I still keep it in my forefront. I always go back, look at the different programs. I'm always researching other schools to go to, which one has the best route for me. So it's still in the forefront, and I do plan to complete. But hey, there's no time, there's no exact end date that we have when life begins to life, as the young folks say, right? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]: Definitely. Now, you talked about mindset, and I think as you go into different

Graduate school isn’t just another chapter in your academic story—it’s a transformative journey that shapes your personal and professional life. In the latest episode of "Victors in Grad School," Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Ervin Leavy, Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management at the University of Michigan–Flint, to explore what it means to pursue graduate education as a working professional. Ervin’s path is both relatable and inspiring. After earning his undergraduate degree in 1991, he began working in higher education, but realized years later that to truly thrive—especially as an adjunct lecturer—he needed to further his education. That realization led him back to school after an 18-year gap, a move he calls “one of the best decisions” of his adult life. His experience offers valuable insights for anyone considering grad school, especially those who may feel it’s “too late” to return. Adapting to Change and Embracing Lifelong Learning One prominent theme from Ervin’s story is embracing change. When he first entered grad school, the world had shifted dramatically—classes were online, technology was central, and Blackboard replaced the typewriters of his college days. By asking questions, seeking support, and choosing in-person classes, Ervin exemplified adaptability and the willingness to step out of his comfort zone. The Importance of Support and Community Ervin’s journey also highlights the value of strong support systems. He credits coworkers, colleagues, and campus resources with providing the motivation and flexibility he needed to succeed. For working professionals, leveraging employer education benefits, as Ervin did, can minimize financial barriers and provide a smoother path forward. Finding Balance and Avoiding Burnout Graduate school requires resilience. Ervin candidly shares the struggles he faced: late nights, technology mishaps, and moments of doubt. His advice? Find balance, rely on time management, and take breaks to recharge. Hobbies like chess and cooking offered him much-needed mental space. Advice for Prospective Students For anyone contemplating graduate school, Ervin urges you not to wait: "The longer you delay, the harder it can be to get back in the groove." Apply yourself fully, build relationships, and surround yourself with people who motivate and support you. Ready for more inspiration and actionable insights? Tune into this episode of "Victors in Grad School" and hear first-hand how perseverance, adaptability, and a strong community can lead to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love that you come back, that you listen, that you are working to prepare yourself for this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Because no matter where you are in thinking about graduate school, applying to graduate school, going to graduate school, wherever you are in this pathway, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: And you're going to find that there are things that you can do along that path to help yourself to find success sooner. And that's what this show is all about. This show is here to help you to be able to make better choices, to be able to find new ways of doing things, to give yourself some tools for your toolbox that will prepare you to find success sooner. That's why every week I bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can share their own experiences, sometimes good, sometimes maybe not so good of things that they learned along the way that can help you to again prepare yourself. This week we got another great guest. Irvin Levy is with us today. And Irvin is the Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management and Recreational Services at the University of Michigan, Flint. He did his undergraduate work at Central Michigan University and then did his graduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: We're going to learn a little bit more about him and about his experiences and his own journey in going to grad school. Ervin, thanks so much for being here today. Ervin Leavy [00:01:56]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be able to talk to you today. I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at Central Michigan University, and at some point during either your undergraduate degree or after graduating, you got an inkling, you got an inkling, you got that itch, you started to scratch it, you decided that you were going to go to graduate school. Take me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Ervin Leavy [00:02:31]: Well, I got my Undergrad degree in 1991 from Central Michigan University. I began working here at the university in 2002, and I just had my undergrad degree after about seven years working in higher education. Education. That's when I realized I needed to further my education, especially on the technology side, as I was an Adjunct lecturer. So in 2009, I decided that I was going to go back to school and get my master's degree in technology and education. And that was one of the best moves that I ever made in my adult life was going back to school. Because when I came out in 91, there were not very many computers and we all had typewriters when I was in college. So when I went back to school in 2009, it was to. Ervin Leavy [00:03:17]: Everything was totally different. Work was being done on blackboard, everything was pretty much online. So that was an adjustment period for me. But working in higher education, I felt that was needed in order for me to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:30]: So you decided to continue your education at the University of Michigan Flint. And you probably had some reasons for doing that. And I guess talk to me about the, your decision making and as you were looking at different programs potentially or why you chose not only the University of Michigan Flint, but why educational technology? Ervin Leavy [00:03:50]: Well, at the time I was an adjunct lecturer, I taught a variety of one credit classes. And what I noticed in the classroom was I wasn't that advanced in technology. And I chose that field because I thought it would help me in my teachings. And it did. I learned a lot regarding just working with the disabled. I learned the importance of using closed captions in my teachings. And that was the reason I went. And another reason I went is being an employee here at the university. Ervin Leavy [00:04:25]: There's a excellent tuition reimbursement program, so I had to take advantage of that. And it didn't cost me anything. Only thing I had to pay for was my books. So I couldn't let that opportunity pass me by. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:38]: You know, and that's something that we haven't talked a lot about, even though some people from past shows have talked about that, is that you may be out there, you may be working, and there could be educational benefits that your employer provides you. And I always encourage people to take the time to have a conversation with your human resources office to find out are there opportunities that are available because they could be there. You just have to make sure you understand what the strings that are attached to that money are. So make sure that you're asking the right questions and determine whether or not you want to be bound by whatever the rules are if there is educational money that is available through your employer. Because I've seen people come in and they're, they and it's a great program. And then I've seen others where they may have to stay with the employer for a certain amount of time or the money that they took becomes alone. So you have to watch that and just know what you're getting yourself into, which is great. Now every person goes through a process of transition as they go into graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:49]: You have to kind of figure out for yourself the differences, because there are true differences in moving from being an undergraduate student to working in the workforce to then going back into, for you, going back into graduate school. And at each of those points, there are different transitions. So you had transitioned out of being an undergraduate student into, into full time work and then you decided to come back into school. So there's a transition there. So talk to me about these transitions and what you had to do when you transitioned into graduate school to find success and what you had to do to maintain that success throughout your entire graduate school experience. Ervin Leavy [00:06:31]: Well, when I went to graduate school, I had been out of school for about 18 years. So when I decided to go back, everything was totally different. Like I said, everything was online, all assignments were on blackboard. We didn't use blackboard when I was an undergrad back in the 90s. And a part of what really helped me was I asked questions and I made sure I know what was helpful for me is instead of taking online classes, I preferred to go sit in the classroom. And I went and I sat in the front row for every class and tried to learn as much as I could. And I asked questions that was important. And I had some wonderful advisors and some wonderful professors that walked me through, which was very helpful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:17]: Now there are times, especially after going back after so

Graduate school is often called a journey, and for good reason. In the latest episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Abby Parrill, the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs at the University of Michigan-Flint, to unpack what it truly takes to succeed as a graduate student. Whether you’re contemplating applying, awaiting your first semester, or knee-deep in research, the experiences and advice shared in this episode offer practical guidance and inspiration for every stage of the process. One of the key themes Dr. Parrill discusses is intentional decision-making—knowing why you’re choosing graduate school and how it aligns with your long-term goals. She recounted how, as an undergraduate at Central Michigan University, her co-op experience at Dow Chemical revealed to her that advanced degrees opened doors to more autonomy and interesting projects, prompting her to further her education immediately, rather than settling into a job right away. Dr. Parrill also shares her experience of choosing the right graduate program, highlighting the importance of considering personal and professional factors. Her decision to attend the University of Arizona was influenced not only by its academic offerings but also by where both she and her then-fiancé could study complementary fields on the same campus. Preparation is another recurring theme. Academic preparation, such as building a solid foundation during undergrad and leveraging work experiences, paid off for Dr. Parrill—especially when it came to placement exams and early graduate coursework. She stresses the importance of treating graduate school as a full-time commitment, dedicating oneself not just in the classroom but also through research, networking, and even tutoring or mentoring others. The transition to graduate-level work often brings feelings of imposter syndrome and self-doubt. Dr. Parrill’s candid insights into these struggles—and the importance of leaning on mentors and building supportive networks—underscore that such challenges are common, but surmountable. Finally, Dr. Parrill shares wisdom on balancing responsibilities and being intentional about time management, whether you’re juggling teaching, research, work, or family obligations. Her advice, derived from mentoring students with complex lives and her own experience, rings true for anyone seeking to thrive in graduate school and beyond. Are you considering graduate school, or are you currently navigating its demands? Tune into this episode for actionable tips, personal stories, and the reassurance that the path, while challenging, is absolutely rewarding. Listen to the full episode to glean more practical advice and inspiration to fuel your graduate school journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs for the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, we are here to talk with you, to work with you on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey, because it truly is a journey. And every one of us, as we think about graduate school, have to go through a process to be able to prepare ourselves, to work through the process of not only applying to graduate school, getting into graduate school, but getting through graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And to do that, there are things that you can do to find success in that journey, and that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, people from different walks of life that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, they've come out the other end mostly unscathed, and they have been able to learn things along the way. Learn things about themselves, but learn things about the process of going to graduate school and what they had to do to find success. This week, we've got another great guest. Dr. Abby Parrill is with us today, and Dr. Perel is the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic affairs at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:23]: And Dr. Parrill joined the University of Michigan Flint about a month ago. She has transitioned from working at the University of Memph for a number of years, and now she's here, and I'm really excited to have her here to talk to you about her own experiences and to be able to help you better understand some of the things that she had to learn along the way. Dr. Pero, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:01:46]: Absolutely. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Well, I really appreciate being able to talk with you today. I'm always excited to be able to learn from other people and the journey that they're on. And I know that when you were in your undergraduate work, at some point back at Central Michigan University, there was a point in time. There was a point in time where you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue your education, weren't going to just finish that degree and go off and work and maybe go over to Dow Chemical down the road, but you made a decision to continue on. Can you take me back to that point and what was going through your head and what made you Decide that that was the right step at that point. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:02:25]: Absolutely. So it's funny you mentioned Dow Chemical, because I was actually in the cooperative education program at Dow Chemical while I was an undergraduate student. Great learning experience. Let me see how to use what I was learning in the classroom in a real chemistry lab. But one of the things I learned was that the chemists that had doctoral degrees had a lot more autonomy and more interesting projects. And those with bachelor's degrees tended to do very routine, repetitive things that did require chemistry knowledge. And I enjoyed doing those routine, repetitive things as an undergraduate student because it allowed me to get really good at a few of the skills I had learned as an undergraduate. But I couldn't see myself doing that for 10, 15, 20 more years. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:03:10]: And there had been a panel held, sponsored by Central Michigan University, I think it was our student affiliates of the American Chemical Society sponsored a panel about graduate school, med school, or work as being some of the common directions someone might go after right after completing the bachelor's degree. And there were people on the panel who had started employment first and then gone to graduate school and others who had gone straight to graduate school. And they talked about kind of the challenge of getting into the work environment, getting used to a particular salary, and then stepping back to graduate school and going back to that kind of restricted income as being a very sincere challenge that they faced. And I decided that since I knew I didn't want to remain at the bachelor's level for my entire career, that I was just going to grit my teeth and move on and get the graduate degree right away. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: Now, one of the things that I always am interested in is, you know, you decided to go and continue your education, like you mentioned, and you ended up applying to schools. But I'm sure that you went through a process of exploring schools to try to find the right fit, and you ended up finding a fit at the University of Arizona doing organic chemistry. Talk to me about that process that you went through for yourself to explore, but also to identify that final decision of the University of Arizona. And what was it about the University of Arizona that made it the best fit for you? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:04:48]: So searching for graduate schools was very different when I was searching for graduate schools than it would be for today's prospective graduate students. My first shopping for graduate schools was to go to the big rings that our undergraduate institutions had bolted on the wall. And they had big paper flyers hanging from these rings. And each flyer was for a specific graduate program in chemistry. And they had little tear off cards, and you could fill out your contact information and put them in the mail. And they would mail you information much faster. Now to use the all of the wonderful online tools you have, you can go to a website and shop instead of having to send off a card and wait. But another avenue of exploration is very much relevant today, and that's to talk to your faculty. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:05:36]: I asked some of my faculty. I'm looking at this three foot thick pile of programs and I have no idea how to choose. And I got a piece of interesting advice from one of my undergraduate faculty members who said, try somewhere really different for graduate school. Because graduate school is a limited period of time. Once you graduate, you have the opportunity to stay near where you go to graduate school or go somewhere else if you don't like that that region of the country or that part of the world. And I found that very interesting advice. And so as I was actually applying to graduate schools, my not then yet husband and I each agreed we were going to pick several schools. We were both going to apply to each other's schools as well as our own. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:06:25]: And we were going to see where we got our acceptances and then decide. And out of the schools I had visited and the ones that I had acceptances at that my husband was interested in, my future husband at the time, now currently husband, we narrowed it down to the University of Arizona and the University of Pennsylvania. I was going t

Hello everyone, Chris here with Victors in Grad School. I wanted to give you a quick update that we’re taking a short pause this week from releasing a new episode. Our Office of Graduate Programs is in full gear preparing for the Fall 2025 application deadline, and that means I need to shift my focus just for a few days to make sure everything is running smoothly for our prospective students. We'll be back next week with more great conversations and insights to help you navigate your graduate school journey. In the meantime, let this serve as your reminder: check those deadlines! Whether you're applying to UM-Flint or another institution, staying ahead of the timeline is a huge part of setting yourself up for success. If grad school is part of your future goals, take the next step—get that application in, reach out to programs with questions, and keep moving forward. Your future self will thank you. Talk to you soon!

Are you thinking about graduate school, in the midst of your studies, or reflecting on your own academic journey? If so, the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast is one you won’t want to miss! Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this engaging episode features Jackie Halligan, Human Resources professional at the University of Michigan-Flint, who offers a candid look into her path through academia and into a thriving HR career. The Journey is Unique for Everyone Right from the start, Dr. Lewis reminds us: graduate education is a journey, not a race. Jackie’s story perfectly illustrates this. After earning her Bachelor’s in Employee Relations at Michigan State University, she worked in the field before deciding to pursue a master’s degree. What sparked her return to the classroom? Mentorship and practical advice during an undergrad internship made it clear that a graduate degree was the “golden ticket” for advancing in human resources. Finding the Right Fit Jackie emphasizes the importance of researching programs to find the best fit. She didn’t simply chase prestige—she sought a university with a top-tier HR program, ultimately returning to Michigan State for her master’s in labor and industrial relations. Her advice to prospective students: visit campuses, explore programs, and choose the environment where you feel most comfortable and supported. Preparation and Persistence Lead to Success Jackie credits her undergraduate experience with teaching her how to study, manage time, and persevere through academic challenges—skills that were crucial for succeeding in grad school. She highlights the unique benefits of a smaller graduate cohort, where close relationships with professors and peers created a supportive network. Applying Graduate Education in the Real World Throughout her career—in manufacturing and academia—Jackie has leaned on her social science background, which helped her empathize, communicate, and balance employee and company interests. She stresses that passion is more important than chasing a paycheck. Decades into her HR career, she still finds her work deeply rewarding. Final Advice for Future Graduate Students Jackie’s overarching message is clear: Find your passion, research your options thoroughly, and set yourself up for success by choosing a graduate program that’s the right fit for you—not just the one with the highest salary prospects. Eager to learn more and be inspired by Jackie’s story? Listen to the full episode of “Victors in Grad School” and start charting your own path to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week you and I are on a journey. I say that every week. But it truly is the case that education and the journey, the what you're doing right now, whether you're at the very beginning just starting to think about this, or you're maybe you've already applied and you've gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And from the just ideation stage, where you're just thinking about it all the way to the completion stage can take a short period of time, it can take a long period of time. It really is determinant on where you are at your point, at the point in which you are today. And every person is at a different point, and it can take people different amounts of time to be able to get to that education. This podcast is here to be able to help you in that journey. It is here to be able to help you learn about things that you can do to be successful in this process, whether it's applying, whether it's going through graduate school, whatever it may be. I love every week being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through graduate school before you, that can share their own experiences about what worked, maybe what didn't work as well as things that they learned along the way. And today, today we've got another great guest. Jackie Halligan is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And Jacqui works at the University of Michigan Flint in the Human Resources office. And she has her own education journey that led her not only into professional work, but also to the University of Michigan ultimately over the last few years that she's been here. So I'm really excited to be able to talk with her today, to learn from her and to have you learn from her experiences as well. Jackie, thanks so much for being here. Jackie Halligan [00:02:04]: I'm excited. Thank you, Chris, for the invitation. I appreciate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: Well, it is definitely my pleasure and I'm excited to be able to talk to you today. And as I said, it is a journey that everyone goes on when they go and make a decision to go to graduate school. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University, you got a Bachelor of Arts in Employee Relations and then you went off, you worked for a little Bit of time there, there was a point, but there had to have been a point in time, whether it was during undergraduate work, whether it was during that, when you were working, where you said to yourself, I need to keep going. I need to get some more education to get to where I want to be. Can you bring me back in time and talk to me about that period, that point, and what was the spark that made you make that decision? Jackie Halligan [00:02:55]: So if I go back actually to my undergraduate experience, I did two internships, one of which was at the city of Flint, actually in their labor relations department. And the director of labor relations at that time was getting his master's from Michigan State in labor relations. And his advice to me was that human resources is a very. Now, this was a while ago, but human resources is a very difficult field to break into. And that he felt it was important to get a master's degree to really be able to work in the field and have a good job. And he said to me, but once you get your master's degree, you'll be set, you'll have a great career, you'll do well for yourself. But it really is kind of like the, you know, the entry ticket, the golden ticket, as they call it, that to get a good start and get a good career in human resources. And so obviously, these number of years later, that's something that still resonates with me and certainly was a piece of the very important puzzle for me to consider graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:51]: I know that ultimately you made the decision to go back to Michigan State to get a master's degree in labor and industrial relations. And there are many programs that are out there. You could have selected any of those programs. So as you were working and just making those decisions about where you wanted to go, what you wanted to do to be able to make that next step. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself and what made you ultimately decide that Michigan State was the place where you wanted to go? Jackie Halligan [00:04:24]: So I was probably a little bit different than other people in high school. I knew what I wanted to do. Probably a senior. I mean, it wasn't like I was a freshman, but probably by when I was a senior and I was looking at programs, I actually came across what at the time was gmi, which is now Kettering, they had a labor relations program. And I was researching and reading about it and just that was it. Like it just clicked and it made sense. And so when I started to really think about going into undergrad and wanting to study labor relations or human resources at that Time there weren't a lot of HR programs that you could get a degree in. And Michigan State was actually one of the top, still is one of the top schools in the country. Jackie Halligan [00:05:04]: You can get a human resources management or labor relations degree. And so I knew going into school, even as a freshman, that's what I was going to study. I, I've done it now for decades, quite frankly, I've never wavered from wanting to work in hr. So I just sort of did my research, found that Michigan State was one of the best universities at that time in the country to study this. And that's where I went. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: Simple as that. And the thing that is interesting is I think that, as you said, you may be a little unique because not every student knows that they want to do human resources right from the get go as they go into college. And as you go through, through college, as you go through your undergrad, you move into your graduate degree, there is a different way in which you are educated, different expectations, different perspectives, different ways of learning. And you were successful in going through that graduate work and then going back out into the world after that and taking that knowledge into the workplace. Every individual has to find their path for themselves. They have to find the way in which that they can be successful in that transition, not only into graduate school, but through graduate school. So for you, as you think back to your graduate education, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you stepped into that graduate work, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate education journey? Jackie Halligan [00:06:32]: I actually would go back to undergrad, which set me up for success, because when I was in high school, I used to be able to get my homework done and never have to like, crack a book or do homework, as they call it these days. And so in undergrad, I had to teach myself to study. I didn't know how to study. An

Embarking on the path to a graduate degree is a transformative journey, full of decisions, challenges, and opportunities for growth. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Milanna Jones, a city council member for the City of Pontiac and a recent MBA graduate from the University of Michigan-Flint, to delve into what it really takes to succeed in graduate school and how it can shape your professional and personal life. The Power of Purposeful Decision-Making One of the core themes of Milanna’s story is purposeful decision-making. After completing her undergraduate degree, Milanna knew she wanted more than just academic credentials; she sought practical, strategic leadership skills to amplify her efforts in community leadership and nonprofit work. Her experience highlights the importance of understanding your “why” before taking the leap into grad school. Milanna emphasizes that taking time to reflect on what you hope to gain—beyond simply career advancement—can help clarify the right program and concentration for you. Resilience and Prioritization Milanna’s journey wasn’t without challenges. Just two years before starting her MBA, she faced a life-threatening medical event that led to a disability. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience and prioritization. Through deliberate time management—scheduling dedicated days for reading, assignments, collaboration, and, most importantly, self-care—she was able to thrive academically while navigating significant personal challenges. Her advice? “Prioritize yourself in this process, because you are the only thing that’s going to get you through this.” Building Connections and Skills for Real-World Impact The episode also explores how the right program can foster meaningful connections with peers and professors, both locally and nationwide. Milanna shares how her concentration in organizational leadership equipped her with vital skills in policy analysis, negotiation, and team motivation—skills she now uses daily in her role on city council and in nonprofit initiatives. Looking Beyond the Finish Line Finally, Milanna encourages prospective grad students to focus less on the distant goal of graduation and more on the growth that can happen each semester. By setting incremental goals and remaining open to new experiences and knowledge, you can maximize what you take away from your studies. Milanna’s story is a powerful reminder that graduate school is about more than just earning a degree; it’s about shaping who you are and how you impact the world. Ready to be inspired? Tune in to this episode of Victors in Grad School and start your own journey with a fresh perspective. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Milanna Jones [00:00:03]: Where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Milanna Jones [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, every week. I love being on this journey with you, and I call it a journey. I know I do, every week. But it is truly a journey because no matter where you are, you're thinking about graduate school. Whether it's you're at the very beginning, you're just starting out that process where you're thinking for yourself, is this the right thing for you? Or you could be further along in the process. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Maybe you applied, maybe you got accepted, you're getting ready to start graduate school. Or maybe you're in graduate school and you see that light at the end of the tunnel and you're figuring out what you're going to do next. Wherever you are in this journey, there are things that you can do to be successful. And that's why this show exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences, different backgrounds that can share with you the journey that they went on as they got their own graduate degree. And today we got another great guest. Milanna Jones is with us, and Milanna Jones is a city council member for the city of Pontiac, and she just finished up her graduate degree, her MBA degree at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have her here to tell her own story and to share that with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:26]: Milanna, thanks so much for being here today. Milanna Jones [00:01:29]: Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis, for having me here. My name is Milanna Jones. I am currently the city councilwoman for District 2 of Pontiac, and I'm a recent graduate from University of Michigan, Flint. I received my MBA with a concentration in organizational leadership in August this year, August 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Always a good feeling when you get to walk across that stage and get to that light at the end of the tunnel. So one of the questions that I wanted to start with was really to take you back in time, because I know you did your undergraduate work at Purdue Global. And at some point during that period of time, as you were going through that undergraduate degree in business administration, you were involved, you did a lot of different things, and you saw that light at the end of the tunnel. But at some point within either your undergraduate degree or that time between your undergraduate degree and when you decided to start in graduate school, you made a decision for yourself, which Was that you wanted to take that step. Bring me back to that moment. What was going through your head and why did you decide that graduate school was the right step at that time? Milanna Jones [00:02:37]: So going back to that moment, which would precisely be August 2022, as someone who was already heavily involved in community leadership, I was looking for the opportunity to really strengthen those leadership skills. I was heavily involved with nonprofit work, two different 501C3s to be specific. And I just knew that the MBA was the route that I wanted to go at that time. Although I had not taken the steps to pursue it. I wanted to the tools to lead more effectively, more proactively, strategically, rather than reactively, which is, you know, now reflecting, which is what I was doing at the bachelor level. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:16]: You were thinking about that. You made that decision, you decided that you were going to take that next step. I know there was about a year between that August 2022 that you mentioned and when you decided to start it in August of 2023. So during that period of time, I'm sure you did your research. You. You had to figure out for yourself, what, what am I looking for in this process? What kind of program is going to be right for me? Is it right down the road? Is it further away? I mean, you did a global program. Is it going to be in Michigan? Is it going to be somewhere else? Walk me through that process for yourself. What was going through your head in regards to the things that were most important to you? Why were those the most important? And ultimately you decided to go to the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: What made you finally decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Milanna Jones [00:04:05]: So during that year gap between my bachelor's and starting with U of M Flint, I did take a couple of graduate level courses with Purdue Global. At that time, I realized that I wanted to look for a program, potentially one that was more interactive, Something that helped me acquire the practical skills of working with other people and additional academic rigor. Which then brings us back to the question of why um Flint? Um Flint was the only school that I applied to. It was my first choice, my first preferred choice. And although I tell myself, don't put all your eggs in one basket, I was determined to pursue U of M Flint. I read the website word for word many times while I was constructing my statement of purpose, going through the application process, and soon going on to meet with my academic advisor who marveled over how much information I retained about the program and each specific concentration. I knew exactly which one fit the best based on the description online and based on my conversation with others who have been in the Wolverine family now, it's worth mentioning that previously I did attend University of Michigan Dearborn and my mother and both of my grandparents are all graduates from U of M. One went to U of M Dearborn and two went to U of M Ann Arbor. Milanna Jones [00:05:28]: Which then brings us back to the question, why U of M Flint? For me, why am I the first to pursue this campus? And specifically it is because of the flexibility offered in the program and the high quality of academic rigor. There are many wonderful professors. There are two specific, in my mind that really pushed me outside of my comfort zone. While supporting me, I felt their commitment to really helping me learn and achieve the tools that I wanted in my personal life and in my professional experiences. So U of M Flint was, was initially my only choice. And now reflecting on this journey really solidifies why I gravitated there. That's where I was meant to be. That's where I connected most with the professors and with my peers. Milanna Jones [00:06:15]: I've developed close relationships with colleagues in Michigan and out of the state just from being here and working with U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:23]: Now, for every student that goes into graduate school there, there truly is a transition that they go through. There's a transition as into graduate school. A transition as you go through graduate school and you found success, you graduated like

Are you considering grad school but feeling unsure about the process, the expectations, or even where to start? The latest episode of Victors in Grad School is a perfect listen for anyone navigating these questions. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Shelby Newport, Program Director for the Arts Administration program at the University of Michigan-Flint, for a candid conversation about finding success—and fulfillment—through graduate education. Shelby’s journey is a relatable one. She takes listeners back to her undergraduate days at Cornell College, where a mix of curiosity and an honest assessment of her skills led her to pursue further education. Recognizing that she needed more specialized training to reach her career goals in costume design, Shelby set her sights on an MFA—a common terminal degree in the arts. Her story of researching programs, attending the nerve-wracking (but rewarding) University and Resident Theater Association (URTA) interviews, and ultimately choosing Purdue for its supportive faculty and fit with her aspirations offers an inside look at the decision-making process for prospective grad students. A central theme in the episode is that grad school is a journey—often challenging, always transformative, and rarely linear. Shelby opens up about the transition from undergrad to graduate student, emphasizing that the switch isn’t just academic; it’s personal, too. Learning to “dress the part” and step into the role of both student and teacher was part of her process, as was embracing the intense, focused workload that a graduate program demands. Shelby’s advice for current and prospective students is refreshing in its honesty. She speaks about the importance of being open to change, both in yourself and in your career path. Sometimes, the direction you envision at the start isn’t where you’ll end up—and that’s not only okay, but often leads to unexpected opportunities and growth. Her own path led from regional theater work to a fulfilling career teaching and program direction, and her network—built by seizing opportunities and following her interests—has played a crucial role every step of the way. For anyone considering grad school or already in the midst of it, this episode is packed with valuable insights. Shelby Newport’s story is a reminder that while the journey may be unpredictable, your openness, effort, and willingness to grow will serve you well. Tune in to hear her story—you’ll walk away inspired and a little more prepared for your own graduate school adventure. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Where we have conversations with students, alumni. And experts about what it takes to. Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited that you're back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. As you are looking at graduate school, thinking about graduate school, maybe you've applied to graduate school. No matter where you are, you are truly on a journey, because graduate school is a journey. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes some planning to not only get in, but get through. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]: And that's what this podcast is all about. It's to provide you with some of those tools that you need, those tools for your toolbox that will help you to be able to find success and sooner. And that's why every week I bring you different guests with different experiences, people that have gone to graduate school before you to share some of their own experiences and allow for you to be able to learn from the things that they learned along the way as well. This week, we've got another great guest. Shelby Newport is with us, and Shelby is the program director for the Arts Administration Program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have her here, to have her talk a little bit about her own experiences and learn from her. Shelby, thanks so much for being here here today. Shelby Newport [00:01:26]: Yeah, thank you. This is exciting to talk about and remember my journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]: Well, I'm really excited that you're here today, and it is a journey, and I think one of the things that I would love to do is kind of take you back in time because I know that you did your bachelor's degree at Cornell College and in theater in art, and then at some point during that time during your undergrad, you made a choice that you were going to continue on to get the mfa, and you did go and get an mfa. But bring me back to that point in your thinking and why you chose to go further and to go on. Shelby Newport [00:02:03]: Yeah, that moment is really a specific moment for me. I mean, I can sort of put myself in the position. I was a work study student in the costume shop at Cornell College and learning skills. But Cornell College is a small, private liberal arts college in Iowa, and our faculty was relatively small, taught me so many things, and it was the best place for me, but I didn't have really specific training in costume design and construction. And so, you know, sitting there doing my Work study job, working on a production, thinking. I think it was basically the, the end of my junior year, my third year in school, I had gone away and worked in the summer at different summer professional companies. Colorado Shakespeare Festival for, for two summers in a RO was thinking about where do I want to move? What is next? What is the job that I want? And knowing that there was going to be a lot of jobs, but what was that next step? And I felt like I didn't have the skills I needed with only my one year left of undergrad to do the job. Like I was leaning towards Chicago and working professionally in theater. Shelby Newport [00:03:14]: And so I needed more skills. And the mfa, the Master of Fine Arts, is a terminal degree in our arts field and it is a doing degree. So I knew that with intensive three years in a program that I would hopefully leave those three years with more skills than I had at that time. And of course, as it happens, during the journey, you find out other things about yourself and who you know, where you want to go and who you want to be. And I, I gained a lot of different skills that I couldn't have expected. So my path and the job I wanted to do changed during those three years. But I decided that I wanted to go right away and not take time off between undergrad and graduate school now. Shelby Newport [00:03:53]: And you made the decision to go to Purdue. Purdue University. And there's a lot of MFA programs all across the country. And I'm sure you did some, some review, some research to try to determine for yourself what was the best program for you. Talk to me about that search process and what you had to do to come to that final conclusion of going to Purdue. Shelby Newport [00:04:16]: Yeah, in the arts we have this, I think, somewhat unique organization called erda. The acronym is University and Resident Theater Association. And that organization run interviews and auditions for MFA programs, among other things, as a, as an organization and association of university programs. And so at that time they ran three interview dates where you went in person in New York, Chicago or San Francisco. You signed up for those and you set up a table, basically a booth for yourself, your portfolio and a board, maybe some samples of your work. And so I selected the New York one and my boyfriend at the time, my husband, now we drove to New York, New York from Iowa with my things and parked my Jetta in New York City and stayed in a fancy hotel, set up my booth and you set up your area, your table. Then you leave for four hours and then you come back and they give you a list of the grad schools that want to interview you. And then you have, I think it was 10 or 15 minutes with each of the school representatives that wanted to meet you. Shelby Newport [00:05:22]: And then after that, I think you got a piece of paper that said, like, next step interviews with your next tier. And in our field, it's always like, oh, how many IRTA interviews did you get? Oh, how many did you get? And there's probably 40 school representatives at these. And they're the. Mostly the major programs. The really top tier MFA programs like Yale don't go to this. They don't need to recruit in that way. So it's that next tier of major universities. University of Iowa, Purdue, Florida has a great program. Shelby Newport [00:05:56]: University of North Dakota, Montana. Like, those programs were all there and talking to you. So you're meeting someone, maybe the costume designer, maybe it's another designer, because all the design students are doing this at the same time. And it's a real fast speed dating moment of like, tell me about your program, I'll tell you about myself. Do we click? I don't know, is there chemistry? So I had a few really great ones. I think my number was nine. I think I had nine on my list of people who wanted to talk to me. So that's reasonable, right? And of that 9, 4 sort of showed real interest and, like, felt like a pretty good match. Shelby Newport [00:06:32]: Purdue was in that and University of Wisconsin, Madison was in that group, and then University of Maryland was in that group. And I really liked the faculty that I met with. They seemed to like the direction that I was going, that had art and theater blended in it. I didn't. I wasn't a purist in my undergrad. And then Purdue actually offered, you know, you're driving back from New York to Iowa. If you want to stop in Indiana, we'll put you up and you can see the house or can see the university. We just built a new building. Shelby Newport[00:07:00]: Come check it. And so the free room for the undergrad was a real draw. So we

Considering graduate school or already deep in your studies? Navigating this journey can feel overwhelming—full of choices, challenges, and the constant pursuit of personal and professional growth. This week’s “Victors in Grad School” episode is a must-listen for anyone at any stage of that journey, as Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Cam McLeman, director of the Data Analytics program at University of Michigan-Flint, to share valuable insights that will resonate with students, alumni, and educators alike. Dr. McLeman’s story is one many can relate to: a passionate undergraduate uncertain about career direction, he experimented with disciplines before returning to his true academic love—mathematics. His decision to pursue a PhD, driven by a thirst for deeper knowledge rather than a prescribed career path, will inspire those who view learning as a lifelong process. But his journey didn’t stop with earning that doctorate—transitioning into the realm of data analytics, Dr. McLeman demonstrates the power of adapting skills and embracing new opportunities as the landscape of higher education and industry evolves. The conversation dives deep into practical wisdom for succeeding at the graduate level. Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate studies, Dr. McLeman notes, is much like moving from high school to college—you’re expected to take far more ownership of your pathway. The self-driven nature of graduate school requires not just academic diligence but also proactive organization, advocacy, and a willingness to push beyond comfort zones. Dr. McLeman highlights the importance of building connections: with faculty, with industry, and especially with peers who are further along the journey. “Don’t struggle in silence,” he urges, pointing to the wealth of support services campuses offer—from academic assistance to mental health and disability support. Success often hinges on reaching out and taking advantage of these resources before issues become overwhelming. Perhaps the most compelling theme fro TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're back again this week, every week. I love being able to bring you on this journey because it is a journey. You have made a choice. You've made a choice that either you're looking at graduate school, maybe you've applied to graduate school, maybe you got accepted to graduate school. No matter where you are, whether you're just applying, you're in graduate school or beyond, this is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:38]: And you have definite things that you can learn to be able to prepare yourself not only to make the transition into graduate school, but things that you can do to be able to be even more successful as you go through that entire graduate school process. And that's why this show exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to pick up some tools for your toolbox, to be able to help you to figure out some things that you might even be able to do right today. Or as you go further on, to help you in this journey. Today we got another great guest. Dr. Cam McLeman is here. And Cam is the director of our data analytics program here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]: And he had his own graduate school journey that we're gonna be talking about today. Also works with graduate students, so he definitely has some perspectives on what it's like to work with the graduate students and what he's seen with them. So I'm really excited to have him here, and I am really looking forward to having this conversation today. Cam, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:01:44]: Thank you very much for having me, Chris. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: It is my pleasure. I am really excited to be able to talk to you today, to be able to delve a little bit deeper into your own journey and see what we can learn along the way. And I know you did your undergrad work at Harvey Mudd College and got a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics. And at some point during that time during your undergraduate work, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on with your education. Bring me back to that point and talk to me about kind of what you were thinking and what made you decide that you wanted to go on to graduate school. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:02:15]: Yeah, so I came into undergrad pretty confident that I wanted to do mathematics. In some capacity. I also had a passing interest in computer science and physics and engineering, but I knew that math had to be part of it. And as I travers my undergraduate degree, I dabbled in all of those things. I picked up a second major in computer science, and then I dropped that, decided it wasn't for me, and I picked up a second major in physics, and I dropped that and decided it wasn't for me. And every time I just came back to math, and that's what I found my passion in. And by the end of my undergraduate degree, it wasn't so much that I was chasing a specific career, it was just that I knew I was not done learning math. I couldn't choose not to keep going. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:02:57]: So. So grad school was in some sense just the natural continuation of my learning process at that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:04]: So as you made that decision that you were going to keep learning, you wanted to keep going and continue your education, I'm sure you did some exploration, you did some research, you tried to figure out for yourself where was that next step. And ultimately, I know you made the choice to go to the University of Arizona to get a PhD in mathematics. Talk to me about that journey for yourself and what made you decide first, a PhD in mathematics. But also, what did you go through? What were some of the things that you were looking for? What made you ultimately end up choosing the University of Arizona over the many other PhD programs that are out there across the United States and beyond? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:03:44]: Yeah, that's a great question. And to be fair, it was not an easy discussion. The choices when you're graduating from an undergraduate institution, especially, I think in a STEM field, are pretty overwhelming. There are industry options and commercial options to consider. Those were not my particular, you know, appeal. That was wasn't what I was interested in. I was interested in doing more academics. So then you have the question of do you go for a Master's degree or a PhD degree if you want to keep going, and in mathematics, that the choice is a little bit different than in some fields in that a master's degree is something you would pick if you knew what career you wanted to go into, and it had a master's degree requirement to it. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:04:25]: Whereas a PhD degree is the academic degree. If you want to go for the full doctorate, knowing that along the way, you essentially pick up a master's degree. So for me, the choice was clear because I knew that if I needed to bail out at some point along the way, decided that the PhD wasn't for me, then most PhD programs give you that that exit ramp to exit with just a Master's degree just is not meant as pejoratively there, just earlier than the PhD and then sort of every stage in your academic career from there on, you are constrained by availability. So I probably applied to a dozen grad schools for my PhD program. That's out of a choice of several hundred. So this was finding the programs that appealed to me both geographically and in terms of what expertise their faculty had. And cost was a factor, the likelihood that they would be able to subsidize part of my education. And in the end, the University of Arizona offered the best total package there. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:05:33]: I had never been to Arizona. I did not know that it would reach 110 degrees some summers. That was a climate based struggle for me during my time there. But in terms of the quality of the faculty and the aid package they were able to offer me, that just rose above the rest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:52]: Now, as you make that transition and you go to graduate school, there is definitely a transition, because the way that you're taught as an undergraduate student is not going to be the same way that you're going to be taught as a graduate student. There's different expectations not only of your faculty, but also pressure that you put on yourself. Expectations that you have on yourself for the ultimate goal that you're working, working to attain. You found success, you ended up getting that PhD, getting that graduate degree. As you think back to that transition for yourself, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:06:37]: That's a great question. Let me start by a preliminary story, which is that in my role right now, I deal with a lot of the transition from high school students to undergraduate students, students telling them what to expect in their first year of undergrad. And what I tell them is that this will be a transition in the sense that there's not going to be people holding your hand through every step of this process. There's not going to be someone forcing you to come to class and telling you after you get done with your sports practice, you have to sit down for an hour and do your homework. Undergrad, you're much more responsible for setting your own schedule. That transition from

Embarking on the journey to graduate school can be both exhilarating and overwhelming. In the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Juanita Tookes, Assistant Director for Counseling and Psychological Services (CAPS) at the University of Michigan Flint, to talk about her winding—and deeply personal—path through higher education. This insightful conversation is packed with valuable lessons and encouragement for anyone considering, or already pursuing, advanced degrees. Embrace Your Own Timeline One of the most powerful themes of this episode is the importance of honoring your unique path. Dr. Tookes shares candidly about taking breaks between each of her degrees—underscoring that there is no "one-size-fits-all" trajectory through academia. She explains how these pauses allowed her to gain hands-on experience (and even chase a dream of being on America’s Next Top Model!) before returning to her studies with renewed clarity and purpose. Her story is a reminder that whether you go straight through or take time off, your educational journey is yours to define. The Power of Real-World Experience Dr. Tookes’ journey highlights the value of real-world experience in shaping academic and career choices. Her early work in a child and family services nonprofit exposed her to social work, therapy, and the complexities of family systems—experiences that informed her eventual focus on counseling psychology. She encourages prospective students to seek out professional experiences, talk with people in the field, and use those insights to refine their goals. Overcoming Self-Doubt and Imposter Syndrome Transitioning to graduate school can trigger self-doubt, especially for those who see themselves as “nontraditional” students. Dr. Tookes bravely discusses her own struggles with imposter syndrome and negative thinking, and shares how reframing her mindset, celebrating small wins, and building a strong support network helped her persevere. Her honesty will resonate with anyone who has ever questioned their abilities or belonged in a program. Seeking Guidance and Paying It Forward Finally, Dr. Tookes emphasizes connecting with advisers, mentors, and peers—not only for academic support but also for personal encouragement. Her journey eventually led her to help other doctoral students as an academic adviser, filling a gap in support she’d wished for in her own experience. If you’ve ever wondered what success in graduate school really looks like, this episode is for you. Listen to Dr. Juanita Tookes and gain practical wisdom, heartfelt encouragement, and a fresh perspective on your own educational path. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, and really excited to have you back again this week as we are working together, as you're going through this path, this journey that you're on to consider graduate school, go to graduate school, whatever part you are in, it is a journey. I say that every week, but it is so true because for every person, that path, that journey is going to look a little bit different. It's gonna feel a little bit different. You're gonna have to work through the things that that you're challenged with as you're thinking about this and figuring it out if this is the right path for you. And that's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to help you to be able to demystify the graduate school process, but also to give you some tools for your toolbox to help you in this journey. And I do that every week by introducing you to other people that have gone before you, that have gone to graduate school, that have learned some things along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:17]: Maybe everything went perfectly well. I'm gonna guess to say it didn't all go perfectly, but that you learn along the way and you can learn from these individuals and put those tools in your toolbox to help you to maybe miss that stumbling block. But if not, start planning for it and prepare yourself so that as you hit that stumbling block, you have some tools, you have some resources to draw from that'll help you through that. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Doctor Juanita Tookes is with us, and Doctor Tookes is a the assistant director for the counseling and psychological services, or CAPS, program at the University of Michigan Flint. She did her undergraduate and master's degree both at Wayne State University and then went and got her doctorate degree at Oakland University. And we're gonna talk about that journey that she went on to learn a little bit more about that. I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Doctor Tuxt, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:02:17]: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. It's always an honor when I'm invited to share my experience. And, of course, I know my experience is individual to me, but I hope something I say can be helpful to someone. So thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:30]: Now, as I said, you did your undergraduate work at Wayne State University. And at some point during that degree in psychology, you made a decision. You made a choice. You decided that you were going to continue on and get that graduate degree. Can you bring me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head? What made you decide that you wanted to do that? Because I know that there was a little bit of time between the bachelor's and the master's as well. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:03]: Yes. So this is such a long time ago. So when I graduated with my undergrad degree in 02/2008, I knew that I wanted to go higher in education. I knew that. I knew that I wanted to be a doctor since I was nine years old. Now at that age, I didn't know that there were different kinds of doctors. I just knew that I wanted to be one. But there is the preview of what you wanna do. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:29]: There is the product of what actually comes out of it. But then there's this middle part called the process. So after I graduated with my undergrad degree, I did not go straight into graduate school. My brain was gone at the end of of my undergrad experience. It took me five years to complete that because I did not go to school in the summer. So it took me a little bit longer. And I just wanted to be without school for a little bit. Like, it was very intellectually challenging. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:58]: It took a lot of my time. It was it was a lot. I was proud of it. I was happy that I did it. But I realized, unlike some of my peers who went straight into grad programs, I wanted to take a break. So what ended up happening is I found out through the psych department about, an internship. It was an internship in a child and family service organization in Detroit, and I applied for that and got it. And so what I did is I did my year internship there, and I got hired on as a full time employee. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:04:30]: And I was doing data entry and analysis for this organization. And I actually was there for a few years. And so the way that I look at it is because sometimes I've heard people think that you just have I've heard both sides of this. So people think that it's bad to take breaks. You need to just go straight through. And it's not bad. I think that whether you take breaks or you go straight through, just make sure that you're making the decision that's best for you. It's not about what other people think. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:04:58]: It's about what's best for you. It was best for me because I got to get some hands on real life experience in the area that I said that I wanted to work in. I knew I wanted to be in the helping professions. I knew that I wanted to study psychology. And so being at a child and family service nonprofit organization allowed me to interact a lot with social workers and therapists. This organization mainly worked with teenagers, so I was able to understand some things about the judicial system in relation to in relation to several things. So drug use, abuse and misuse, family systems. We were working with adjudicated youth, so youth that were who had committed some offenses, and they had to go to the court to get those offenses rectified. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:05:48]: Really learning a lot from the social workers and understanding that area, even though that's not what I was going for. Social work really helped enhance my knowledge about resources in the community that can help families, which were was inclusive of therapy. So my decision to go into grad school after my break was it was kind of like an internal it was an internal thing. I was traveling for two years. I was pursuing interests outside of academics. At this time, I was trying to be America's next top model at this time. So I was traveling and, like, pursuing modeling, trying to get assigned to an agency. I was trying to beg Tyra Banks to let me on her show. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:06:28]: But at the end of a two year period, my dreams had not manifested at that point. And I said, okay. We have to make a decision. Either you're going to continue to pursue this or you're going to get that grad school application done and submitted. And I went with the latter, completed my application to grad school, and then got admitted there. And that's how I started my journey in grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: So in that learning that you went through, you as you said, you you worked with social workers, you saw psychologists, you worked with other individuals. And in those two years, you also had to do some other re

Are you thinking about graduate school, but worried about a few bumps in your academic or personal past? This week’s episode of "Victors in Grad School," hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, is one you can’t afford to miss. Joined by legal experts Susan Stone and Kristina Supler, co-chairs of KJK's Student & Athlete Defense and Title IX Practice Group, the conversation centers around one of the most overlooked—but crucial—aspects of grad school admissions: how to handle disclosures of disciplinary or legal issues, and how to demonstrate personal growth. Facing the Application Questions Head-On Many prospective grad students feel anxiety when applications prompt disclosure of past academic or criminal incidents. Susan and Kristina stress the importance of honesty—reading each prompt carefully and responding truthfully, without oversharing. As Susan puts it, "Answer the prompt, but you don’t have to gut yourself." If more information is needed, universities will ask. Ultimately, omitting required information can be far worse than taking ownership of a past mistake. Lessons in Reflection and Preparedness The episode delves into the power of self-reflection—not just when answering tough application questions, but also when making decisions about when and why to pursue graduate school. Both Susan and Kristina share insights from their own paths and from those of Susan’s children, who benefited from working and reflecting before diving into advanced studies. That pause, they say, can help students make more thoughtful—and ultimately more successful—academic choices. Law School, AI, and the Changing Landscape The advent of AI tools has streamlined research and writing, but Susan and Kristina caution against letting technology replace critical thinking and big-picture analysis, especially for those considering law as a career. Law school, they emphasize, is about so much more than memorization: it’s mental chess, requiring creativity, analysis, and adaptability. Growth, Redemption, and Moving Forward Perhaps the most compelling message of the episode is one of hope. A mistake in your past doesn’t define you forever—what matters is how you move forward. Take steps to show growth connected to the issue, stay out of trouble, and be ready to talk authentically about your journey. Colleges and licensing boards are often open to stories of redemption and resilience. If you’re plotting your path to graduate school—or helping someone who is—this episode is packed with practical advice, honest reflections, and encouraging reminders that your journey, no matter how winding, can still lead to success. Tune in to hear more insights from Susan Stone and Kristina Supler—and take your grad school journey with confidence! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're back with us this week. And every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it truly is. No matter if you're going to business school, law school, med school, doesn't matter, you have made a decision that you want to go to graduate school and no matter where you're gonna be going, it's going to take time, it's gonna take effort, it's gonna take perseverance to get through. And I'm not saying that to scare you away. I'm telling you that because there are things that you can do right now and things that you can do as you go through graduate school to prepare you for that journey that you're going to be on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:58]: And that's why this show exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can give you some different resources and some some hints, some tips, some things to put in your own toolbox to help you on that journey. And today, we've got two great guests with us. Susan Stone and Christina Supler are with us, and they are the co chairs of KJK's Student and Athlete Defense Title IX Practice Group. This is a group that's dedicated to support students in crisis and addressing their legal needs. And this is a topic that we haven't really talked about. We haven't talked about as you're going into applying to graduate school, many times on the application, you're going to see questions that'll ask you if you've had any criminal charges that you've had in the past, and you have to disclose those things to be able to be able to apply. And sometimes that scares people. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:57]: And we'll talk about some of that today. And we'll also talk about Susan and Christina's own journey in going to graduate school themselves. But I'm really excited to have Susan and Christina here. Susan, Christina, thanks so much for being here today. Susan Stone [00:02:12]: Thanks for having us. Kristina Supler [00:02:14]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here. As I said, we haven't really talked about this topic before. But before we jump into that topic, on the legal side, I love getting to know both of you a little bit more in regards to the journey that you went on because both of you are lawyers and you went through graduate school. And I guess for you, as you were considering and thinking, take me back to that point where you said to yourself, I wanna go to graduate school. What was the reason and what made you to make that decision that you wanted to take that next step? Kristina Supler [00:02:48]: Well, I am one of those bizarre, peculiar people who, as a child, knew exactly what I wanted to do, and then I actually did it. So your question, Chris, takes me back to my childhood. I think about being a student in fourth grade at Notre Dame Elementary School, and we had a career project. We had to do a report on what do you wanna be when you grow up. And I said, mom, dad, I wanna be a lawyer. And so my mother connected me with a real estate lawyer, which is kind of funny because, of course, I don't do anything in that realm. But did a project, did some interviews, learned more about what it is to be a lawyer. And fast forward, went through undergrad at Boston University where I obtained a degree in European history, highly useful, drawn my degree every day in my life, and then ultimately obtained my law degree from Cleveland Marshall College of Law. Kristina Supler [00:03:39]: So I love what I do, and I'm happy to be here today to talk about what we do. What about you, Susan? Susan Stone [00:03:44]: I'm gonna be a lawyer and answer but not answer, Chris, because I am attending my daughter's graduation from Wharton where she's getting her MBA, and I also have a son at MBA school at Cornell. I am reflecting because it's graduation time on the choices they made versus the choice I made and what advice I would give to people. I also have the same story as Christina, so I won't bore you with that. Always wanted to be a lawyer, went straight through. But I see through my two adult children that both of them took time after undergrad and worked and reflected before they went into graduate school, and I really think that was the smarter decision. It is every parent's hope that we raise kids smarter than ourselves, and I achieved that goal because while I love being a lawyer, I love it because I created a niche that worked for me. But if given a couple years to muse and think, maybe I would have considered other options. I was just so strong in the narrative that I should be a lawyer. Susan Stone [00:04:54]: Whereas I see that my children took more time, worked a little, asked a lot more questions, and took a different path than what they thought. So my daughter, who's getting her MBA in health care consulting, originally wanted to be a doctor. My son, who graduated with a degree in finance, mused for a couple years while he worked, do I want to be a lawyer? Do I want to be a doctor? Do I want to be a candlestick maker? He's going into investment banking. So I recommend you do a little work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: Great points. And definitely, I've seen students that do that. And it's you do have to do your research, you do have to do that self reflection to be able to get there. And speaking of self reflection, both of you chose different law schools in in the paths that you chose. And there are many different law schools that are out there. Now the interesting part is that you both were in Ohio, not too far from each other, and you went to law schools in that same region. But I guess talk to me about that decision making process for yourselves and how you ultimately came to the decision of the law schools that you chose to attend. Kristina Supler [00:06:05]: Susan, why don't you go ahead? Susan Stone [00:06:07]: Well, I was engaged and I knew that we were coming back to Cleveland. Case Western gave me a scholarship, and it was a wonderful education. And that really is not that exciting of a story. I wish I had more. I think that, again, with a little reflection, a little maturity, maybe I would have explored differently. Again, I look at my married daughter graduating from graduate school. She got married and then made the decision to go to a different city for her MBA program from her husband and the time flew, that wasn't in my world view decades ago. Kristina Supler [00:06:48]: And, Chris, my situation is not unlike what Susan described. I was away living my best life in Boston, but I came back for my hometown, honey, my now husband. And and really the choice was simple. It came down to scholarship dollars. You know, I was putting myself through law school. And when you look at through through the lens of, you know,

Are you considering grad school in today’s ever-evolving landscape? This week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School” delivers a must-listen conversation directly from the heart of the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals (NAGAP) conference. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis gathers real-time insights from experts, admissions leaders, and graduate support professionals about the most pressing shifts shaping the graduate school experience in 2024—and what they mean for your journey. AI & Authenticity One theme echoed by multiple guests is the rise of artificial intelligence, both in the application process and the workplace. While AI tools can help streamline your application, admissions teams stress the importance of letting your authentic self shine. Be cautious about relying too heavily on tools like ChatGPT—admissions counselors can usually spot AI-generated essays. Use technology as support, but make sure your personality and individual story come through. Holistic Admissions & Diverse Backgrounds The pandemic shifted perspectives around achievement. Rather than just seeking candidates with extensive internships or perfect test scores, many programs are now looking at the whole person. Did you juggle jobs with school? Are you a first-generation student? Your resilience, resourcefulness, and personal growth matter more than ever. Funding, Fit & Flexibility Cost is a growing concern, and our experts urge applicants to ask (and keep asking) about scholarships, assistantships, and other financial support. In addition, with the exponential growth of online and hybrid offerings, it’s crucial to understand various learning formats and select what truly fits your needs. There’s also more pressure than ever for grad programs to demonstrate real modern-world relevance—so do your homework and talk to admissions reps, not just online reviews or forums. Evolving Skills for the Future The episode also explores how the demands of the workforce are shifting. Communication and soft skills—especially in an AI-enhanced environment—are becoming more critical. Programs are adapting to prepare students not just for today’s job market, but for tomorrow’s unpredictable opportunities. Why You Should Listen If you’re serious about graduate school, don’t miss this episode. You’ll walk away with honest, actionable advice and a clearer sense of what it takes to stand out—and thrive—in today’s graduate landscape. Ready to dive deeper? Listen now for practical tips and insider perspectives that could make all the difference in your grad school quest!   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in grad school. This week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn from other enrollment management professionals. I recently attended the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals or NAGAP. And at that conference, I spoke to a number of enrollment management professionals and individuals working within industry that are working with higher education about a number of questions to help you in the journey that you are on toward graduate school. This week's question is what's a shift you're seeing that today's prospective students should be aware of as they consider applying to graduate school. I hope that you enjoy the answers to this question and that it will help you on the journey that you are on. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:03]: Hi. This is Stacy Goldstein with UC San Diego at Rady School of Management with the master professional accountancy program. I work in our graduate department in admissions, thing is being your cheerleader for my students. Invest in yourself. It is competitive with jobs and AI is on the rise, so it can be challenging when applying for jobs or graduate school. When you're writing an admissions essay or doing your resume, please try not to rely on chat GBT that much. I know it's tempting, but I hate to break it to you, we can tell. We can definitely tell assert writing style or the dashes, but we wanna know you. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:38]: So really try to you can utilize the AI, that's fine, But put in a sense of who you are even through a piece of paper. We wanna get to know you. Be confident. Let that personality shine through and best of luck. Donna Wang Su [00:01:54]: My name is Donna Wang Su. I am the associate director for graduate admissions and financial aid at Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism Media Integrated Marketing Communications. I think a shift that I am seeing as students are applying to grad school today, I think is that vulnerability. I think that COVID really changed things a bit in the sense of people are leaning a bit into not following. Here's that checklist. I'm gonna check everything off. And they're looking at other opportunities, and I think trying to find the lessons there, and that's something that I truly value. I think us in the admissions offices are also looking at things a little differently. Donna Wang Su [00:02:33]: We talk about there's that book Privileged Poor where we will consider, oh, this person doesn't have a lot of internships. But as I look at their resume, maybe they're a first generation college student and they don't have that financial luxury to take an unpaid internship in this field or industry. But I've seen that they've worked two, three different jobs while also going to school full time. What lessons have they picked up? What professional maturity have they picked up from this kind of time management? And so I think there's become more of a focus on that holistic admissions and holistic graduate student approach as well. Santavaya Jordan [00:03:10]: My name is Santavaya Jordan. I am the engineering graduate recruiter at Vanderbilt University, and I recruit only for our graduate programs in engineering. The biggest thing I see with students in particular is looking at what funding is available and if funding is even gonna be offered due to the political climate. And I can tell you that many of the schools they're fighting to find funding for students to encourage you to still be in these spaces. We definitely want you to be at our institutions to be able to thrive and not focus on how you're gonna pay for a school. So I know that has been a big concern that's happening. Also, another thing is even with testing, a lot of the students are worried about GRE scores or even, like, some that it may have GMAT scores, but a lot of schools are getting rid of that and a lot of them are taking holistic approach to look at other applicants, getting ready for testing because there is a lot of bias within looking at applicants. So I would definitely say although you may be studying for a GRE or studying for a GMAT, don't rule out all the other background things that you may have done with whether it's research or even maybe even had a paper published. Santavaya Jordan [00:04:07]: Those different type of things can really set you apart when applying for graduate school. So don't focus on your negatives that you may not have. Look at all the positive things and look at other ways to engage in your institution. If you don't have research experience, look at your institution and talk with different faculty and see if you can get in their lab. Pick up lab skills and learn new things that really help you advance your application. Paul Brandano [00:04:31]: I'm Paul Brandano. I'm the executive director of the Master of Science in Business Analytics at UCLA Anderson. So we're seeing a few shifts when we think about who our cohorts are. I would say first and foremost, it's a generational shift. When we think about Gen Z who's now a growing part of our population, I think the advantages they bring is that they care a lot about authenticity. They care a lot about making a difference in the world, being socially conscious. And I think these are all things that are going to be valuable in their careers. Of course, the political environment is always changing, so they've gotta be aware of that. Paul Brandano [00:04:59]: But I think that at the end of the day, they tend to have their head in the right place place when it comes to picking up the job of basically taking over the world eventually. I would also say that they tend to be because of the pandemic and because of the challenges they faced, either more resilient or less resilient. And I think that, you know, depending on their personal experience through that, we see it as either a strength or a gap. I think as long as the students are aware of that, that it's probably had an effect and are self aware enough to acknowledge it, it becomes an opportunity rather than a limitation. Emily Dayton [00:05:31]: Hi. This is Emily Dayton. I am the senior director of a specialized master's admissions and recruitment at the Rady School of Management at the University of California, San Diego. What I'm seeing is that with the growth of generative AI tools and AI assisted work environments, that what is becoming even more important is a focus on strong communication skills. I work with very quantitative and technical programs, and the shift that we're starting to do is that we're preparing our current graduate students for a work environment. We'll be more of a conductor of an AI tool that's doing most of the quantitative and technical lift. And so really what sets students apart and job candidates apart are their communication soft skills. Tony Fraga [00:06:19]: Hey. It's Tony Fraga, CEO at Direct Development. We're a long time enrollment marketing company. So many students are applying to a lot more schools today than ever before. It's not just applying to a couple of programs. We're seeing huge amounts of volume increase, almost like undergrad levels, at the grad level. That's just becoming

Navigating graduate school is a journey filled with both promise and challenge. While many students focus on selecting the right program or acing their classes, there’s a world of support—often overlooked—that can make all the difference. In the latest episode of Victor’s in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis brings together enrollment professionals, faculty, and industry experts from universities across the country to answer a vital question: What’s an underrated support service or strategy that can make a big difference for student success? A powerful theme that emerges is the value of community and connection. From networking with recruiters and professionals, to seeking out mentors and joining student organizations, building intentional relationships is a recurring piece of advice. Stacy Goldstein of UC San Diego urges students to “network, network, network”—not just for job opportunities, but to foster professional connections that can open unexpected doors. Tapping into campus resources is another underappreciated strategy. Whether it’s visiting the writing center as recommended by Irene Aiken of UNC Pembroke, or taking advantage of the library’s knowledgeable staff and resources, graduate students are reminded that these supports go far beyond undergraduate basics. Several guests, like Matt Bohlen, highlight that services often assumed to be for undergrads—such as tutoring and consulting—are invaluable at the graduate level. Career and professional development also take center stage. According to Tony Fraga, a proactive approach to career services—like participating in mock interviews—can directly impact post-graduate outcomes. Meanwhile, Paul Brandano from UCLA underscores the importance of identifying and addressing skill gaps before and during your program, whether by brushing up on technical skills or improving communication through creative outlets. Finally, there’s a strong message about attending to mental health and personal well-being. Multiple voices stress the significance of using counseling services and seeking support from faculty, mentors, and peers. “Don’t suffer in silence,” advises Emily Dayton, reminding students they’re not alone on this journey. The episode is rich with practical advice, personal stories, and a refreshing honesty about the realities of graduate education. If you’re considering graduate school or already on your journey, this conversation is an essential listen to ensure you’re not missing out on the resources that can propel you to success. Tune in, take notes, and empower your grad school experience!     TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in grad school. This week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn from other enrollment management professionals. I recently attended the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals or NAGAP. And at that conference, I spoke to a number of enrollment management professionals and individuals working within industry that are working with higher education about a number of questions to help you in the journey that you are on toward graduate school. This week's question is what's a underrated support service or strategy that can make a big difference for student success. I hope that you enjoy the answers to this question and that it will help you on the journey that you are on. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:04]: Hi. This is Stacy Goldstein with UC San Diego at Rady School of Management with the master professional accountancy program. I work in our graduate department in admissions. And my big thing is being your cheerleader for my students. Network. Network. Network. Network. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:18]: Write down every recruiter's name. So a lot of support strategy or what can you do to be successful. Make the connections you have count. So write down, even if it's an online virtual event, who you spoke with is that recruiter. So next time when you meet them, especially in person, you can make that connection and let them know that you were present. That helps. Donna Wang Su [00:01:40]: My name is Donna Wang Su. I am the associate director for graduate admissions and financial aid at Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism Media Integrated Marketing Communications. I'm definitely biased, but I do think that an underrated service is gonna be your financial aid office. And I say that because I do a lot of one on one financial advising with my students, which quickly turns into strategic planning slash career services. Because we'll start talking about budgeting and we'll start talking about, well, I wanna be able to save up to do this. I wanna go explore this. And next you know, it leads down a different path. And I love connecting with students years later who tell me that they still remember tips or use strategies that we've used from our coaching sessions. Santavaya Jordan [00:02:24]: My name is Santavaya Jordan. I am the engineering graduate recruiter at Vanderbilt University, and I recruit only for our graduate programs in engineering. Definitely, back again, tack into the mental health. Making sure your mental health is intact as much as possible. Not everyone understands and believes how much they need resources to talk to someone whether it's a counselor or even a mentor that you could relate to. Someone that's been in your position before or someone that can just have be an outlet or a resource that doesn't have anything to say or give their own opinion on what you're going through, but a listening ear to ear to help you get through difficult situations, whether it is personally that can affect you academically or something that's academically that can affect you personally. Paul Brandano [00:03:05]: I'm Paul Brandano. I'm the executive director of the master of Science in Business Analytics at UCLA Anderson. But with a quantitative master's, I think the the probably more underrated support services are the things that are initially gaps on the technical side. So I I think, for example, about a person who was fantastic in our first cohort, she was, by training, an economist. She was an undergraduate economist and she came into our program and said, I just don't have the Python. I have never programmed in R. I don't really know my SQL. And she said, but I promise you by the time I get into the program, I will have taken a few courses and I plan on spending my Friday nights in the library. Paul Brandano [00:03:39]: And everybody can say that, but she absolutely did it. And I think that the difference it made for her was that she didn't just get hired by the the consulting firm. She got hired by BCG Gamma. You know, she could really walk the walk and talk the talk. So I think I think a lot of folks might underestimate the real leap they can make by just adding a little bit more pre prep before the master's degree. And I see that quite a lot. The other one is, you know, we do a lot with on the other end of the spectrum, if it's non quant, it's communications. And so if you if you come in knowing where your biggest gap is and then look for creative ways of filling them, not all programs are gonna do all of it. Paul Brandano [00:04:11]: And so we add improv as an example. But that improv is available in most major cities. Right? And I always recommend it. It's a great way to to sort of launch your way forward quickly in a short window of time while you're still getting your master's degree. The best time of your life when you're probably your most charismatic. And so I would recommend those kinds of approaches too. Like, look for the creative things that make you shine uniquely, you know, that give you that x factor, that ability to talk about something a little different than the average candidate might hear. Emily Dayton [00:04:41]: Hi. This is Emily Dayton. I am the senior director of the specialized master's admissions and recruitment at the Rady School of Management at the University of California, San Diego. This is something that our faculty say a lot, but we really encourage our students to do not suffer in silence. Most staff and faculty are there to help, and they want students to be successful. So one thing that we do at the Rady School is that our faculty will proactively share the support system that is in place at the start of each quarter, at the start of each class so that our students are aware of the resources that are there before they run into an issue. Tony Fraga [00:05:21]: Hey. It's Tony Fraga, CEO at Direct Development. We're a long time enrollment marketing company. For sure, career services. And here is an underrated thing. And I'll just say, I know there are many career services departments that aren't great. They're just kinda meh, and you don't learn a lot. It's maybe captain obvious. Tony Fraga [00:05:40]: Like, make sure you have a LinkedIn profile, and here's three resume templates you can use. Like, you can get that off of ChatGPT and Internet. You don't need a career services department for that, to be honest. A great career services department is will meet with you and help you do things like a mock actual interview before you have an actual interview with an employer. I'd be looking at that. I think that's so underrated. If you cannot just train how to get a degree and learn something, if you can learn how to then interview with a real employer, it can make or break whether or not you get that job. And let me tell you, the next generation coming out, people in their twenties and thirties, they're struggling to find right fit jobs because you're not interviewing well. Tony Fraga [00:06:16]: Tap into your university's career service department. They know how to do it. They see lots of you go through not we