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with Mike Kaspar and Nathan Callahan
156 Episodes
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An interview with Winslow Myers the author of Living Beyond War: A Citizen’s Guide. After thousands of years, the dream of a world without war may seem hopelessly unrealistic. But, as Winslow Myers shows in this concise, eloquent primer, what is truly unrealistic is the notion that war remains a reasonable solution to the conflicts on our planet. He begins by showing why war has become obsolete (though obviously not extinct): it doesn't solve the problems that ostensibly justify it; its costs are unacceptably high; the destructiveness of modern weapons could lead to human extinction; and there are better alternatives. After elaborating on these points, he outlines a new way of thinking that will be necessary if we are to move beyond war, in particular a recognition of our oneness and global interdependence. Finally, he outlines practical alternatives and inspiring examples that anticipate the goal of a world beyond war. Winslow Myers is an artist and teacher who has worked for many years with Beyond War. Recorded December 15, 2009
An interview with Steven Pinker, one of the world's leading cognitive scientists and author of How the Mind Works. Pinker explains the mind by "reverse-engineering" it — figuring out what natural selection designed it to accomplish in the environment in which we evolved. The mind, he writes, is a system of "organs of computation" that allowed our ancestors to understand and outsmart objects, animals, plants, and each other. How the Mind Works explains many of the imponderables of everyday life. Why does a face look more attractive with makeup? How do "Magic-Eye" 3-D stereograms work? Why do we feel that a run of heads makes the coin more likely to land tails? Why is the thought of eating worms disgusting? Why do men challenge each other to duels and murder their ex-wives? Why are children bratty? Why do fools fall in love? Why are we soothed by paintings and music? And why do puzzles like the self, free will, and consciousness leave us dizzy? Steven Pinker is Harvard College Professor and Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University. Until 2003, he taught in the Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences at MIT. He conducts research on language and cognition, writes for publications such as the New York Times, Time, and The New Republic, and is the author of seven books, including The Language Instinct, Words and Rules, The Blank Slate, and The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window into Human Nature. Pinker will speak on the Evolution of the Mind on Saturday, December 12, 2009 at UCI’s Beckman Canter as part of The National Academy of Sciences conference. Recorded December 8, 2009
Russ Baker Interview

Russ Baker Interview

2009-12-01--:--

An interview with Russ Baker the author of Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America. We'll talk to Baker about his recently published article "What Obama Is Up Against" — on the pressures Obama faces from the military-industrial-intelligence-finance sector and how that ties his hands on Afghan and Iraq. In Family of Secrets, Baker goes deep behind the scenes to deliver an arresting new look at George W. Bush, his father George H. W. Bush, their family, and the network of figures in intelligence, the military, finance, and oil who enabled the family’s rise to power. Baker’s exhaustive investigation reveals a remarkable clan whose hermetic secrecy and code of absolute loyalty have concealed a far-reaching role in recent history that transcends the Bush presidencies. Baker offers new insights into lingering mysteries — from the death of John F. Kennedy to Richard Nixon’s downfall in Watergate. Here, too, are insider accounts of the backroom strategizing, and outright deception, that resulted in George W. Bush’s electoral success. Throughout, Baker helps us understand why we have not known these things before. Russ Baker has written for the New Yorker, Vanity Fair, the New York Times, the Nation, Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, and Esquire, and served as Columbia Journalism Review contributing editor. In 2005, he founded the Real News Project, a nonprofit investigative news organization. His exclusive reporting on George W. Bush’s military record received a 2005 Deadline Club award. Recorded December 1, 2009
An interview with Alexandra Natapoff the author of Snitching: Criminal Informants and the Erosion of American Justice. Albert Burrell spent thirteen years on death row for a murder he did not commit. Atlanta police killed 92-year-old Kathryn Johnston during a misguided raid on her home. After being released by Chicago prosecutors, Darryl Moore — drug dealer, hit man, and rapist — returned home to rape an eleven-year-old girl. Such tragedies are consequences of snitching — police and prosecutors offering deals to criminal offenders in exchange for information. Although it is nearly invisible to the public, criminal snitching has invaded the American legal system in risky and sometimes shocking ways. Snitching is the first comprehensive analysis of this powerful and problematic practice, in which informant deals generate unreliable evidence, allow criminals to escape punishment, endanger the innocent, compromise the integrity of police work, and exacerbate tension between police and poor urban residents. Driven by dozens of real-life stories and debacles, the book exposes the social destruction that snitching can cause in high-crime African American neighborhoods, and how using criminal informants renders our entire penal process more secretive and less fair. Natapoff also uncovers the farreaching legal, political, and cultural significance of snitching: from the war on drugs to hip hop music, from the FBI’s mishandling of its murderous mafia informants to the new surge in white collar and terrorism informing. She explains how existing law functions and proposes new reforms. By delving into the secretive world of criminal informants, Snitching reveals deep and often disturbing truths about the way American justice really works. Alexandra Natapoff is an award-winning scholar and a nationally-recognized expert on snitching in the criminal justice system and Professor of Law at Loyola University in Los Angeles. Prior to joining the faculty she served as an assistant federal public defender in Baltimore. She also founded the Urban Law & Advocacy Project with a community fellowship from the Open Society Institute. Recorded November 24, 2009
An interview with James W. Douglass the author of JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters — an astonishing new examination of the Kennedy assassination and its meaning today. Douglass lays out the journey that led JFK in the course of three years from his position as a traditional Cold Warrior to his determination to break with the logic of the Cold War and lead the world in an entirely different direction. This sequence of steps led his adversaries in the military and intelligence establishment to view him as a virtual traitor who had to be eliminated. Douglass's book has all the elements of a political thriller. But the stakes couldn't be higher. Only by understanding the truth behind the murder of JFK can we grasp his vision and assume the urgent struggle for peace today. James W. Douglass is a longtime peace activist and writer. He and his wife Shelley are co-founders of the Ground Zero Center for Nonviolent Action in Poulsbo, Washington, and Mary's House, a Catholic Worker house of hospitality in Birmingham, Alabama. His books include The Nonviolent Cross, The Nonviolent Coming of God, and Resistance and Contemplation. Recorded November 17, 2009
Dahr Jamail Interview

Dahr Jamail Interview

2009-11-10--:--

An interview with Dahr Jamail the author of The Will to Resist: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. project in Iraq has been condemned by a vibrant and vocal antiwar movement as illegal and unjust since before the invasion began. Since 2006, a majority in the United States have opposed the contination of the occupation, and reported to pollsters that they believe the invasion was a mistake. But how do the soldiers who carry out the occupation see the war? Fragmented reports of battalions refusing orders, of active duty soldiers signing antiwar petitions, of individual soldiers refusing redeployment and taking a public stand against the occupation have trickled into the mainstream reportage over hte last five years. But how deep does the current of resistance run? What makes soldiers deployed in Iraq decide to go AWOL, file for conscientious objector status, or even serve sentences in military prisons to avoid taking part in this unpopular engagement? Dahr Jamail's comprehensive study of the today's military resisters sheds new light on the contours of dissent within the ranks of world's most powerful military, documenting the fight for justice inside the belly of the beast. Dahr Jamail is an independent journalist who has covered the Middle East for more than five years. He is the author of Beyond the Green Zone. Jamail writes for the Inter Press Service and many other outlets. Recorded November 10, 2009
An interview with Jake Adelstein the author of Tokyo Vice: An American Reporter on the Police Beat in Japan. At nineteen, Jake Adelstein went to Japan in search of peace and tranquility. What he got was a life of crime . . . crime reporting, that is, at the prestigious Yomiuri Shinbun. For twelve years of eighty-hour workweeks, he covered the seedy side of Japan, where extortion, murder, human trafficking, and corruption are as familiar as ramen noodles and sake. But when his final scoop brought him face to face with Japan’s most infamous yakuza boss—and the threat of death for him and his family — Adelstein decided to step down . . . momentarily. Then, he fought back. Adelstein tells the riveting, often humorous tale of his journey from an inexperienced cub reporter—who made rookie mistakes like getting into a martial-arts battle with a senior editor — to a daring, investigative journalist with a price on his head. Jake Adelstein was a reporter for the Yomiuri Shinbun, Japan’s largest newspaper, from 1993 to 2005. From 2006 to 2007 he was the chief investigator for a U.S. State Department-sponsored study of human trafficking in Japan. Considered one of the foremost experts on organized crime in Japan, he works as a writer and consultant in Japan and the United States. He is also the public relations director for the Washington, D.C.-based Polaris Project Japan, which combats human trafficking and the exploitation of women and children in the sex trade. Recorded November 3, 2009
An interview with James W. Loewen author of Teaching What Really Happened: How to Avoid the Tyranny of Textbooks and Get Students Excited About Doing History. Loewen takes history textbooks to task for their perpetuations of myth and their lack of awareness of today's multicultural student audience (not to mention the astonishing number of facts they just got plain wrong). How did people get here? Why did Europe win? Why Did the South Secede? In Teaching What Really Happened, Loewen goes beyond the usual textbook-dominated viewpoints to illuminate a wealth of intriguing, often hidden facts about America's past. Calling for a new way to teach history, this book will help teachers move beyond traditional textbooks to tackle difficult but important topics like conflicts with Native Americans, slavery, and race relations. Throughout, Loewen shows time and again how teaching what really happened connects better with all kinds of students to get them excited about history. James W. Loewen is the bestselling author of Lies My Teacher Told Me and Lies Across America. He taught race relations for twenty years at the University of Vermont and gives workshops for teacher groups around the United States. He has been an expert witness in more than 50 civil rights, voting rights, and employment cases. Recorded October 27, 2009
An interview with Kevin Mattson the author of 'What the Heck Are You Up To, Mr. President?': Jimmy Carter, America's 'Malaise,' and the Speech that Should Have Changed the Country. In 1979, in an effort to right our national malaise, Jimmy Carter delivered a speech that risked his reputation and the future of the Democratic Party, changing the course of American politics for the next twenty-five years. At a critical moment in Jimmy Carter’s presidency, he gave a speech that should have changed the country. Instead it led to his downfall and ushered in the rise of the conservative movement in America. Mattson gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the weeks leading up to Carter’s “malaise” speech, a period of great upheaval in the United States: the energy crisis had resulted in mile-long gas lines, inciting suburban riots and violence; the country’s morale was low and Carter’s ratings were even lower. The administration, wracked by its own crises, was in constant turmoil and conflict. What came of their great internal struggle, which Mattson conveys with the excitement of a political thriller, was a speech that deserves a place alongside Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address or FDR’s First Inaugural. Prominent politicians on both sides of the aisle play important roles, including Carter, Vice President Walter Mondale, speechwriter Hendrik Hertzberg, Ronald Reagan, and Ted Kennedy. Kevin Mattson is the Connor Study Professor of Contemporary History at Ohio University. He's the author of Rebels All!, When America Was Great, Upton Sinclair and the Other American Century, and Intellectuals in Action. He writes for the American Prospect, Dissent, the Nation, the New York Times Book Review, the Washington Post Book World, and many others. Recorded September 29, 2009
An interview with David Swanson author of Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union. Daybreak is an assessment of how Bush/Cheney fundamentally altered the way our government works, inflated the powers of the executive, and deteriorated the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Only through the active efforts of citizens, Swanson argues, can we restore our rights, and expand our conception of political rights to meet new challenges. Daybreak offers a shocking and inspirational breakdown of all that we have lost, and all that we have to gain. What powers were stripped from Congress and handed to the White House, and what will it take to permanently move them back? Which of these powers is Barack Obama making use of or even expanding upon? And in the future, how can we embellish our rights, create democratic representation in Congress, and make presidents into executives rather than emperors? Daybreak is a citizen’s guide to the long-term task of putting an end to the all-powerful executive, and reasserting our democracy. Major structural changes are needed. Here we have clear plans for how we may declare our rights, and truly set out for a new America. Swanson is co-founder of AfterDowningStreet.org, creator of ProsecuteBushCheney.org, the Washington Director of Democrats.com, and a board member of Progressive Democrats for America. He served as press secretary for Dennis Kucinich’s 2004 presidential campaign and has been a leading voice for the prosecution of Bush and Cheney for war crimes. Recorded September 22, 2009
An interview with Charles P. Pierce the author of Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free. The Culture Wars are over and the idiots have won. In the midst of a career-long quest to separate the smart from the pap, Charles Pierce had a defining moment at the Creation Museum in Kentucky, where he observed a dinosaur. Wearing a saddle... But worse than this was when the proprietor exclaimed to a cheering crowd, “We are taking the dinosaurs back from the evolutionists!” He knew then and there it was time to try and salvage the Land of the Enlightened, buried somewhere in this new Home of the Uninformed. Pierce delivers a gut-wrenching, side-splitting lament about the glorification of ignorance in the United States, and how a country founded on intellectual curiosity has somehow deteriorated into a nation of simpletons more apt to vote for an American Idol contestant than a presidential candidate. Pierce's denunciation is also a secret call to action, as he hopes that somehow, being intelligent will stop being a stigma, and that pinheads will once again be pitied, not celebrated. Pierce has been a writer-at-large for Esquire since 1997 and is a frequent contributor to American Prospect and Slate. His work has also appeared in The New York Times Magazine, Los Angeles Times Magazine, The Nation, The Atlantic, and the Chicago Tribune, among other publications. Recorded September 15, 2009
Len Saputo Interview

Len Saputo Interview

2009-09-08--:--

An interview with Len Saputo, MD the author of A Return To Healing: Radical Health Care Reform and the Future of Medicine. For several decades, a rapidly emerging new medical paradigm has supported a renaissance in our understanding of lifelong wellness. Saputo presents the story of this new medicine, and reveals how it can unlock the door to a health care system that works for all Americans.Conventional medicine's obsession with profitably treating symptoms drives up the cost of health care. And with nearly half of us lacking access to adequate health insurance, how do we deliver care to every American? Saputo argues that single-payer national health insurance is a necessary but insufficient solution. A genuine return to healing requires that we combine regulatory reform with support for a transformed medical paradigm. Len Saputo, MD, a 1965 graduate of Duke University Medical School, is board certified in internal medicine. After his awakening to the deep flaws in conventional medicine, Saputo developed a new paradigm that is now known as integral-health medicine. Saputo founded the Health Medicine Forum in 1994, and went on to found and direct the Health Medicine Center in Walnut Creek, California — one the first integrative clinics. Recorded September 8, 2009
Peter Schrag Interview

Peter Schrag Interview

2009-09-01--:--

An interview with Peter Schrag the author of California: America's High-Stakes Experiment. Schrag takes on the big issues — immigration, globalization, and the impact of California's politics on its quality of life — in this dynamic account of the Golden State's struggle to recapture the American dream. In the past half-century, California has been both model and anti-model for the nation and often the world, first for its high level of government and public services — schools, universities, highways — and latterly for its dysfunctional government, deteriorating services, and sometimes regressive public policies. California explains how many current "solutions" exacerbate the very problems they're supposed to solve and analyzes a variety of possible state and federal policy alternatives to restore government accountability and a vital democracy to the nation's most populous state and the world's fifth-largest economy. Peter Schrag is a contributing editor and columnist at the Sacramento Bee. He is the author of many books, including Paradise Lost and Final Test. Recorded September 1, 2009
An interview with Frederick Hertz co-author of Making it Legal: A Guide to Same-Sex Marriage, Domestic Partnership & Civil Unions. 11,000 couples have married in California since the Supreme Court legalized marriage in May of 2008, and nearly as many married in Massachusetts between May of 2004. Further, nearly a quarter of the U.S. population lives in a state with some form of legal recognition for same-sex couples — with more than 40% of these states' couples having registered their relationships. Authored by a Frederick Hertz, a nationally recognized expert in same-sex relationship law, Making it Legal is a comprehensive, easy to understand guide to the past, present and future of same-sex law in America. The book offers lesbians and gay men a comprehensive review of all of the issues that influence the decision to marry and helps the reader navigate the complexity of same-sex laws and understand the newest legal options while providing practical guidance on how to make one of the most important decisions in one's lifetime. The book provides a brief history of the same-sex marriage movement, a survey of the current legal landscape and a view toward emerging trends and targets, and moves on to a discussion of the factors involved in the personal decision to marry along with the issues that every married couple may face Hertz is a practicing attorney-mediator and the author of Legal Affairs: Essential Advice for Same-Sex Couples (Owl Books) and co-author of Nolo's Living Together: A Legal Guide for Unmarried Couples and A Legal Guide for Lesbian & Gay Couples. Recorded August 25, 2009
An interview with Jarret S. Lovell the author of Crimes of Dissent Civil Disobedience, Criminal Justice, and the Politics of Conscience. From animal rights to anti-abortion, from tax resistance to anti-poverty, activists from across the political spectrum often deliberately break the law to further their causes. While not behaviors common to hardened or self-seeking criminals, the staging of civil disobedience, non-violent resistance, and direct action can nevertheless trigger a harsh response from law enforcement, with those arrested risking jail time and criminal records. Crimes of Dissent features the voices of these activists, presenting a fascinating insider’s look at the motivations, costs and consequences of deliberately violating the law as a strategy of social change. Crimes of Dissent provides readers with an in-depth understanding of why activists break the law, and what happens to them when they do. Using dynamic examples, both historic and recent, Jarret Lovell explores how seasoned protesters are handled and treated by the criminal justice system, shedding light on the intersection between the political and the criminal. By adopting the unique vantage of the street-level activist, Crimes of Dissent provides a fascinating view of protest from the ground, giving voice to those who refuse to remain silent by risking punishment for their political actions. Jarret S. Lovell is Associate Professor of Politics, Administration & Justice at California State University, Fullerton and the host of KUCI's Justice or Just Us?. Recorded August 18, 2009
An interview with Christopher Steiner the author of $20 Per Gallon: How the Inevitable Rise in the Price of Gasoline Will Change Our Lives for the Better. Imagine an everyday world in which the price of gasoline (and oil) continues to go up, and up, and up. Think about the immediate impact that would have on our lives. Of course, everybody already knows how about gasoline has affected our driving habits. People can't wait to junk their gas-guzzling SUVs for a new Prius. But there are more, not-so-obvious changes on the horizon that Chris Steiner tracks brilliantly in this provocative work. Consider the following societal changes: people who own homes in far-off suburbs will soon realize that there's no longer any market for their houses (reason: nobody wants to live too far away because it's too expensive to commute to work). Telecommuting will begin to expand rapidly. Trains will become the mode of national transportation (as it used to be) as the price of flying becomes prohibitive. Families will begin to migrate southward as the price of heating northern homes in the winter is too pricey. Cheap everyday items that are comprised of plastic will go away because of the rising price to produce them (plastic is derived from oil). And this is just the beginning of a huge and overwhelming domino effect that our way of life will undergo in the years to come. Steiner, an engineer by training before turning to journalism, sees how this simple but constant rise in oil and gas prices will totally re-structure our lifestyle. But what may be surprising to readers is that all of these changes may not be negative — but actually will usher in some new and very promising aspects of our society. Steiner will probe how the liberation of technology and innovation, triggered by climbing gas prices, will change our lives. Christopher Steiner is a civil engineer and a staff writer at Forbes who regularly reports on energy, technology and innovative entrepreneurs. Before his first reporting job at the Chicago Tribune, Steiner worked as a civil-environmental engineer in San Francisco and Park City, Utah. Recorded August 4, 2009
An interview with Fred Kaplan the author of 1959: The Year Everything Changed. It was the year of the microchip, the birth-control pill, the space race, and the computer revolution; the rise of Pop art, free jazz, "sick comics," the New Journalism, and indie films; the emergence of Castro, Malcolm X, and personal superpower diplomacy; the beginnings of Motown, Happenings, and the Generation Gap-all bursting against the backdrop of the Cold War, the fallout-shelter craze, and the first American casualties of the war in Vietnam. It was a year when the shockwaves of the new ripped the seams of daily life, when humanity stepped into the cosmos and commandeered the conception of human life, when the world shrank but the knowledge needed to thrive in it expanded exponentially, when outsiders became insiders, when categories were blurred and taboos trampled, when we crossed into a "new frontier" that offered the twin prospects of infinite possibilities and instant annihilation-a frontier that we continue to explore exactly fifty years later, at an eerily similar turning point. Kaplan chronicles this vital, overlooked year that set the world as we know it in motion. Drawing on original research, including untapped archives and interviews with major figures of the time, Kaplan pieces together the vast, untold story of a civilization in flux-and paints vivid portraits of the men and women whose creative energies, ideas, and inventions paved the way for the new era. They include: Fred Kaplan writes the "War Stories" column in Slate, contributes frequently to the New York Times' Arts & Leisure section, and blogs about jazz for Stereophile. A Pulitzer Prize winning former Boston Globe reporter who covered the Pentagon and post-Soviet Moscow, he has also written for the New Yorker, New York, the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and other publications. He is also the author of Daydream Believers: How a Few Grand Ideas Wrecked American Power. Recorded July 28, 2009
An interview with Ellen Ruppel Shell the author of Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture. From the shuttered factories of the rust belt to the look-alike strip malls of the sun belt — and almost everywhere in between — America has been transformed by its relentless fixation on low price. This pervasive yet little examined obsession is arguably the most powerful and devastating market force of our time—the engine of globalization, outsourcing, planned obsolescence, and economic instability in an increasingly unsettled world. Low price is so alluring that we may have forgotten how thoroughly we once distrusted it. Ellen Ruppel Shell traces the birth of the bargain as we know it from the Industrial Revolution to the assembly line and beyond, homing in on a number of colorful characters, such as Gene Verkauf (his name is Yiddish for “to sell”), founder of E. J. Korvette, the discount chain that helped wean customers off traditional notions of value. The rise of the chain store in post–Depression America led to the extolling of convenience over quality, and big-box retailers completed the reeducation of the American consumer by making them prize low price in the way they once prized durability and craftsmanship. Ellen Ruppel Shell is a correspondent for The Atlantic Monthly magazine and has written for The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, National Geographic, Time, Discover, Seed, and dozens of other national publications. She is the author, most recently, of The Hungry Gene, which was published in six languages. She is a professor of journalism at Boston University, where she codirects the graduate program in science journalism. Recorded July 21, 2009
Steve Early Interview

Steve Early Interview

2009-07-14--:--

An interview with Steve Early the author of Embedded with Organized Labor: Journalistic Reflections on the Class War at Home. Collected for the first time, the essays that comprise Embedded With Organized Labor present a unique and informed perspective on the class war at home from a longtime organizer and “participatory labor journalist.” Steve Early tackles the most pressing issues facing unions today and describes how workers have organized successfully, on the job and in the community, in the face of employer opposition now and in the past. This wide–ranging collection deals with the dilemmas of union radicalism, the obstacles to institutional change within organized labor, and strategies for securing workers’ rights in the new global economy. It also addresses questions hotly debated among union activists and friends of labor, including workers’ rights as human rights, new forms of worker organization such as worker centers, union democracy, cross–border solidarity, race, gender, and ethnic divisions in the working class, and the lessons of labor history. Steve Early is a labor journalist and lawyer based in Boston. Recorded July 14, 2009
An interview with Mark Ellingsen author of Sin Bravely: A Joyful Alternative to the Purpose-Driven Life. Ellingsen demonstrates that awareness of sin is shown to lead to freedom and joy, as the pressure is removed to do and be good all the time. The book's other primary aim is to flesh out an alternative approach to life to Rick Warren's and the dominant American Christian vision. This alternative, life of brave sinning, is rooted in the worldview of the Protestant Reformation (esp. of Martin Luther). When people sin bravely, believing everything done is done in sin, people can get out of the way and recognize that all the good done is done by God despite individual seedy motives. This awareness leads to freedom and joy, since the pressure is now removed to do and be good. In addition, total dependence on God entails a self-forgetfulness that leads to happiness. The bolder one acknowledge's their sin, in failing to take credit for the good done, the more focused on God the individual becomes. Correspondingly this self-forgetful lifestyle is a promising counter-cultural alternative to the cultural Narcissism which so dominates in many segments of contemporary American society. Ellingsen provides practical ways to sharpen these insights, to 'own' them. He aims to clarify why the lifestyle of brave sinning and total dependence on God lead to happiness, with an emphasis on current neurobiological research on happiness and brain function. Ellingsen, then, demonstrates both the how and why brave sinning leads to joy, while in so doing offers readers practical advice on living this way. Recorded June 30, 2009
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