What Makes You Click?

In this episode I get to chat with longstanding friend, journalist and best selling cat author, Celia Haddon, with whom I have recently co-authored my latest book "Being your cat - what's really going on in your feline's mind" (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Your-Cat-Inside-Felines/dp/178840405X/ref=monarch_sidesheet). I learn that trying to interview a journalist is not an easy thing to do, and perhaps the tables get turned on me. We discuss a lot of cat literature and out views on living and also writing about cats. Hope you enjoy it. 

Bob Cook is a pioneering equine veterinarian and emeritus professor at Tufts University, working in the field of ear, nose and throat medicine, who has championed a reconsideration of how we interact and communicate with horses. In his career he has identified many performance and medical problems which he was the first to attribute to the use of the bit. I got to know Bob, through his work on headshaking in horses and his work directly inspired some of my own PhD on this topic (and coincidentally 2 other people I worked with also called Cook! another point we discuss in this chat) I was therefore very privileged when he reached out to me quite a few years and asked if we could collaborate on some work he was doing. This was eventually published as: Cook, W. R., & Mills, D. S. (2009). Preliminary study of jointed snaffle vs. crossunder bitless bridles: Quantified comparison of behaviour in four horses. Equine veterinary journal, 41(8), 827-830. Bob has been pioneering a move towards bit-free riding for many years and we discuss this at length, along with his concerns about the bit and so much more. We also discuss shoes and saddles. I hope you enjoy the discussion. We mention a few websites and details are below. https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/I would particularly recommend his recent publications here:https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/does-use-of-a-bit-endanger-the-health-and-safety-of-horse-and-rider-professor-robert-cook-july-2022/https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/the-effect-of-bit-induced-pain-in-the-horse-on-the-feelings-of-riders-about-riding-2022/another great article we refer to can be found here: https://en.weltexpress.info/2021/09/29/pain-free-horsemannship/Bob has always been willing to discuss his ideas and share his knowledge so it was a treat for me to finally catch up with him face-o-face through this chat. You can check out his website here: https://bitlessbridle.com/

I catch up with Turid Rugaas, who I first met at a conference at Cambridge, where she introduced her ideas on calming signals and reading dogs to many people in the UK for the first time. I immediately got where she was coming from, unlike some of the audience, as we both remember. We get to chat here about her early life (with horses) but also the issue of control, and our shared concern over what seems to be a growing tendency not to allow a dog to make mistakes, and learn from them. A focus on control using external reinforcement might not be helping dogs develop emotional resilience. A great chat.

In this episode I chat to long standing friend Debbie Horwitz. It is very informal and just like old times. needless to say we chat about cats (mainly our own cats) but also dogs. Debbie has one of the most amazing videos that she leant me  a long time ago, of a dog showing a sequence of signals before airsnapping in front of the technician who is ignorign all the other signals. I have taught so many students using this video, and I am sure so many more have benefited from it. I can't share it here, for privacy reasons but many of you might know it. Anyway in this episode I find out something I never knew about this video which makes it all the more remarkable. List and find out! :-)

I finally got to catch up and chat withKersti, who is a veterinary behaviourist certified in Australia, UK and North America. So she really does see the field from many perspectives.  For her MSc she did a pivotal study which looked at what puppies actually gain from socialisation classes. We discussed this and other things when we caught up. Please don't forget to subscribe to be kept informed when new episodes become available, and if you enjoy it a like helps spread awareness of the site to others. Thanks

A book that anyone with an interest in companion animal including horse behaviour should read is "beware the straw man". In my latest podcast I get to catch up with its author Linda Case - The Science Dog. A terrific communicator of science, who has a wonderful way of highlighting how we need to think about the various bits of science coming out. She has a particular passion for nutrition as well, so needless to say we end up chatting a lot about what you should and should not feed your dog. All good common sense based on science. Despite the glitches int he internet, we had a great chat, and I am grateful to Sedrick Vangronsveld for his editing skills. This would eb a lot later coming out, if it was not for his expertise. Hope you enjoy it.

Pilley Bianchi, also known as Debbie Pilley, is the daughter of the late John Pilley, the Psychology Professor who owned  Chaser, the dog with the largest vocabulary of any dog ever recorded. In this episode, we catch up to chat about her life with both of these characters and her thoughts about their legacy, alongside her own own insights into how animals learn. We  discuss  both of our experiences about what helps dogs understand language better and what does not, as well as some of the wider philosophical points extending from this concerning dog cognition, consciousness and their welfare as a result;  as well the wider legacy of Chaser and her father's philosophy on life. If you have read her father's book  "Chaser", you might just find this episode answers some of the questions you asked yourself as your read it. They were certainly some of the questions I had and so the episode is a great addition to it. If you haven't read it (why haven't you?), I would recommend it as a fascinating and uplifting read - ideal for the holiday!Pilley Bianchi is also a very accomplished and multi-talented artist in her own right (see: https://www.pilleybianchi.com/about) and has a light hearted Christmas song out that you can listen to here -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUPaUvpn_N8, (no it does not feature my tuneless singing you will be pleased to hear).  Anyway I hope you enjoy this Christmas special and wish you all a great 2022. Thanks for watching and listening to the podcasts.PS you can of course listen to this at any time of year! :-)

In this episode I  chat with pioneering behaviourist and advocate for professional  standards in clinical animal behaviour David Appleby. We talk about his early experience with the RAF and Guide Dogs for the Blind before he moved into managing problem behaviour, his work on effect of early experience on later behaviour and separation related problems. Needless to say, given his role in leading the professionalisation of the field in the UK,  we also discuss the issue of regulation and standards in the field. This is something he is passionate about and led him to return to education to get the qualifications he feels are necessary for competence in this field. 

In this episode, I get to catch up with best selling author and canine psychologist Alexandra Horowitz. Famous for her research on the guilty look and olfactory mirror test in dogs amongst other things, we discuss this work further and her new book. Alexandra  has long been interested in understanding the umwelt (the personal perspective) of other animals,  and like her book, she tries to discover what it is like to be a dog. She is a professor at Barnard College, Columbia University, where she teaches seminars in canine cognition, where she also  heads up the Dog Cognition Lab.

In this episode I get to chat to someone I have always considered a deep thinker on human animal relationships and anthrozoology. I have often described him as  "healthy sceptic" of the reported claims concerning the impact of pets on people., but he is also a leading figure in highlighting are moral ambiguities towards animals. Some may find the content of this podcast challenging, but as we conclude, although there are no simple solutions, if we stop and think, we can still act in a good way. Hal Herzog has been investigating the complex psychology of our interactions with other species for a long time. He is particularly interested in how people negotiate real-world ethical dilemmas, and this forms the basis of much our discussion. He has studied animal activists, cockfighters, animal researchers, and circus animal trainers. An award-winning teacher and researcher, he has written more than 100 articles and book chapters.  He is  also author of the brilliant thought provoking book "Some we love, Some we hate and some we eat"  In 2013, he was given the Distinguished Scholar Award by the International Society for Anthrozoology. 

In this episode I get to chat with pioneer in HAI and visiting professor at Lincoln, Dr Sandra McCune. Sandra qualified as a registered veterinary nurse (Royal College of Veterinary Nursing) in Dublin before completing a degree in zoology from Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. She has a PhD in animal behaviour and welfare from the University of Cambridge, U.K. She has studied a range of companion animal topics including aspects of temperament, behaviour, cognition and welfare, and Human-Animal Interaction (HAI).Until 2019, Sandra was a scientific leader for Mars Petcare, based at the Waltham Petcare Science Institute. For 12 years, she led the HAI area in research and then HAI science communications, and established Mars as the industry’s thought leader in this field. She has extensive experience studying HAI from both animal and human perspectives in collaborations with HAI researchers from the USA, U.K., Austria, France, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Russia, Japan and China and regularly presents internationally on companion animals and their relationship with people.Sandra was instrumental in the establishment of the public-private partnership between the National Institutes of Health and Mars/WALTHAM focused on child development and HAI resulting in a multi-million dollar programme of high-quality HAI research, workshops and several edited volumes, journal series and book chapters.She is the founding director of Animal Matters Consultancy Ltd, providing expert input on a wide range of animal issues. She is a SCAS trustee and a Fellow of the Annenberg PetSpace Leadership Institute. She shares her home with her family including two cats and a lurcher.Researchgate profile: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sandra_Mccune/publications.Twitter: @sandra_mccune LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-mccune/

In this chat I catch up with French veterinarian and behaviour scientist Patrick Pageat. Patrick is the father of pheromonatherapy, being the person who developed the first commercial pheromone products for companion animals (Feliway and Adaptil). He is also the originator of what has become known as the "French" approach to clinical animal behaviour and in this chat discusses how it came about and how his views of this approach have changed over time - to the point that he is concerned how it is currently being applied. He is also a passionate horseman and so we chat about that too. A really interesting and candid insight into both the man and his work.

In this episode I get to catch up with Kendal Shepherd, who has created a range of resources to help reduce the risk of conflict between dogs and humans of all ages. Kendal has a remarkable ability to simplify complex ideas to make them more accessible. She is also a leading expert witness in cases involving dog injuries and the Dangerous Dogs Act.

In this episode I get to catch up with my former tutor at Bristol, Prof Christine Nicol. She discusses how nerve-wracking it was to start out at Bristol, but how she came to lead the development of perhaps the biggest animal welfare group in the world. We discuss ethical and practical issues concerning animal welfare research and its communication to a wider audience (Would you eat an alien?);  also a bit about our horse work.

I have known Don for many years, indeed he was my PhD examiner, and we had great discussion then! He was the first professor of Animal Welfare in the world - a truly amazing pioneer. Always thoughtful and thought-provoking. We discuss his early career and influences, the emergence of animal welfare as a scientific field, as well as how he has got interested in the evolution of morality and religion and his greatest achievements. Essential listening for anyone interested in animal welfare and scientific thinking. 

I catch up with pioneering cat behaviourist and anthrozzologist Dennis Turner. We talk about how he ended up in this field and some of the people he has met along the way. As always Dennis is candid aboout his opinions and provides valuable insight into various aspects of the field. I really enjoyed hearing about Paul Leyhausen, who wrote the seminal text on cat behaviour and while I have his book, much of his research is in German. Dennis also flags some other researchers who be less well known to those of us with limited linguistic ability. Links to relevant websites can be found on the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/v-bvwW2si7w

In this episode I catch up with  companion animal blogger and psychologist Zazie Todd PhD. We discuss the public communication of science and some of the challenges associated with selling positive trainign methods. We also discuss her late arrival to the love of dogs. 

In this episode I catch up with Simon Gadbois. His father was a student of Piaget, and he himself did his PhD with the late great John Fentress ( a former student of Robert Hinde). So he has a really balanced view of the ehtological-psychological distinction. His work on how complex behaviours can arise from relatively simple rules without complex cognition is fascinating and he has a strong interest in the philosophy of science; both topics we cover in this episode, before moving on to to more canid specific stuff in part 2. I would recommend this episode to every graduate student doing behaviour work, but also anyone intersted in how we "know" things. 

In this second part of our chat we discuss issues rtelating to the learning quadrant:  reinforcement and punishment, before moving on to misunderstandings concerning dominance especially in wolves

In this episode I catch up with Roger Mugford. He was the person who first inspired me and many others to get into behaviour.  Never one to avoid controversy, this episode may not be to everyone's liking as Roger argues about the importance of being able to find solutions, and I try to convince him, that we should consider human behaviour change methods more. We can agree to disagree and not fall out. He has lots of ideas as ever.