Where The Wild Thoughts Are

How does using AI change who we are? Last week on Where the Wild Thoughts Are, we talked about freeing AIs to have their own creative ideas and express their own realities. This week we’re flipping that theme, with philosopher Caterina Moruzzi of Edinburgh College of Art, to explore how people and AIs work together, and what that relationship does to us as humans.There’s evidence that when we use AI chatbots to effortlessly generate pretty much anything we want – an essay, poem, painting – that may erode our own ability to think and create. Even if the end result looks impressive, we engage and learn less. But what if we turn that relationship on its head? Instead of using AIs to generate stuff (so we don’t have to); what if we design them to provoke and stimulate our thinking; to expand the possibilities that we can explore; to inspire us to new artistic heights?I asked Caterina how we can move beyond simply typing prompts into chatbots, and the conversation took us from pianos and provocateurs to mindfulness and magnetic poetry. What if AIs could make us more engaged, more creative, even more human?Caterina's home pagehttps://www.eca.ed.ac.uk/profile/dr-caterina-moruzziArtificial Intelligence and Creativity (2025 paper by Caterina)https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/phc3.70030Can AI be truly creative? My recent feature for Nature (£)https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-03570-yBrian Eno's Oblique Strategieshttps://obliquestrategies.ca/Mimetic Poethttps://arxiv.org/abs/2407.11984Authenticity Unmaskedhttps://inspace.ed.ac.uk/authenticity-unmasked-unveiling-ai-driven-realities-through-art/Slow AI projecthttps://aixdesign.co/posts/slow-ai Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can an AI have wild thoughts? Are machines capable of true creativity, true art, of going beyond the training and the prompts we give them in order to explore new worlds?My guest this week is Simon Colton of Queen Mary, University of London. He’s a professor of computational creativity who has been working towards this goal for decades, and he thinks the answer is yes… but only if we give AIs the freedom to choose what they create and to use their own experiences as inspiration.It’s an interesting approach that invites us to think about AI from the inside. Whether or not you reckon an AI can be conscious, AIs do have interactions every day – so many of them – and what you could think of as experiences that they could perhaps express in a poem or a painting.Simon and I discuss how to develop truly creative AIs – including projects of his such as the Painting Fool and the What If machine – as well as what the inner world of an AI might be like. What would it express, if it was able to do that through art?  My feature for this week’s Nature: Can AI be truly creative?https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-03570-ySimon Colton’s home pagehttps://www.seresearch.qmul.ac.uk/cmai/people/scolton/Simon’s paper: “The Machine Condition”https://research.aalto.fi/en/publications/on-the-machine-condition-and-its-creative-expression/Painting Foolhttps://www.cs4fn.org/creativity/paintingfool.phpWhat If Machinehttps://projects.research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/en/horizon-magazine/creative-computation-and-what-if-machineSimon and Louis Bradshaw’s AI piano miniatureshttps://computationalcreativity.net/iccc24/papers/ICCC24_paper_178.pdf Mario Klingemann’s Bottohttps://verse.works/bottoHarold Cohen’s Aaronhttps://whitney.org/exhibitions/harold-cohen-aaron Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thinkers don’t come much wilder than Albert Einstein. His out-of-the-box physics transformed how we think about the universe: with his famous equation E=mc2 he showed that energy and matter are one and the same; through his theory of relativity he joined space and time into one malleable fabric that can morph according to your point of view.But we’re talking about a very different side to Einstein. My guest is Kieran Fox, a physician and neuroscientist at the University of California, San Francisco, all-round spiritual explorer, and author of a fascinating book called I am a Part of Infinity. Kieran argues that Einstein didn’t confine his revolutionary thoughts to the physical world. The physicist was also deeply spiritual: he followed what he called a “cosmic religion”, that he hoped would unify science and religion; mind and matter; us and the cosmos.Biographers and historians have tended to skate over this aspect of Einstein’s life… maybe they felt it wasn’t a suitably rational topic for such a hero of physics. But Kieran has pieced together Einstein’s religious thinking and traced influences from Pythagoras and Spinoza to the Tao Te Ching. He argues that Einstein’s spirituality wasn’t a minor sideshow, and it didn’t just co-exist with his physics, it was central, his ultimate motivation for wanting to understand the nature of reality in the first place.What was this sacred path - and is it still relevant today? I asked Kieran to tell me all about it.Kieran's home pagehttp://kieranfox.net/about.htmlKieran's book: I am a part of infinityhttps://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/kieran-fox/i-am-a-part-of-infinity/9781541603578/Some of Einstein's writings on science and religionhttps://www.silene.ong/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/AEinstein-Religion-and-Science_1930.pdfQuantum Questions, ed. by Ken Wilberhttps://archive.org/details/quantumquestions0000unse_n5j0Some of Kieran's neuroscience papers - on meditation, cognition, creativity and whaleshttp://kieranfox.net/research.html*** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Hosted by Jo Marchant:https://jomarchant.com Produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada:https://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Standing waves and resonant frequencies appear everywhere in the world around us, from musical notes and swaying bridges to electron orbits and animal coats. This week's guest, neuroscientist Selen Atasoy, wondered if they could also be found in the brain.Her work has led to a new way to understand different states of consciousness -- from anaesthesia through our normal waking state to meditation and psychedelics. She explains how changes in our awareness reflect a shifting balance between order and chaos, and why psychedelics may tune the brain closer to a critical point of maximum complexity.I talk to Selen about what this all means for our understanding of the mind, including how modern life may be blunting our awareness, and whether consciousness might be possible elsewhere in the natural world, beyond the human brain.This isn’t the end of Selen’s story, though, as she recently trained as a psychotherapist. We discuss what inspired her leap from objective science towards a more personal exploration of the mind, and how we can all find harmony within.Selen's home pagehttps://www.selenatasoy.com/Selen’s first paper on harmonics in the brain (2016)https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10340 Selen’s paper on harmonics and LSD (2017)https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0079612318301018 Selen’s paper on meditators (2023)https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.16.567347v1.abstract Video of Chladni sand patternshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFAcYruShowHarmonics and animal coat patternshttps://www.math.ttu.edu/~anpeace/files/Math5354Papers/murray_SciAm.pdf MeTruelyhttps://www.metruely.com/ *** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Hosted by Jo Marchant:https://jomarchant.comProduced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada:https://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Steady your nerves and light up your torches, because this week we’re clambering into the deep, dark Neolithic underworld with archaeologist Jens Notroff.Jens, of the German Archaeological Institute, has spent years excavating one of the world’s most fascinating and mysterious prehistoric sites – Göbekli Tepe in southeastern Turkey. This is a series of circular stone enclosures, featuring giant T-shaped figures and carvings of fearsome predators – and possibly also once decorated with human skulls. It’s sometimes described as “the world’s first temple”, and according to conventional thinking, it shouldn’t exist.That’s because Göbekli Tepe is around 12,000 years old. It was built on the cusp of the most important transition in human history, the Neolithic revolution, just as hunter gatherers were about to start cultivating the species around them, and it’s located in just the region where farming was about to emerge. Before historians realised the significance of Göbekli Tepe, they assumed the invention of agriculture was the flashpoint that led to the other changes of the Neolithic, such as more settled communities, and the ability to build impressive monuments like Stonehenge. But the giant stones of Göbekli Tepe, dating to just before all of that, tell us something else – a dramatic, shocking shift in mindset – was already underway.With Jens as our guide, let’s travel back 12,000 years. What wild rituals played out at this deathly site? How did humans take that first leap in thinking, that has defined our species perhaps more than any other, of separating ourselves from – and elevating ourselves above – the rest of nature. And how does it feel to put ourselves into the mind of a young hunter, entering these terrifying caverns for the first time…Jens’ home pagehttps://jensnotroff.com/Göbekli Tepe research project bloghttps://www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/Taş Tepeler research projecthttps://tastepeler.org/en Recommended publicationshttps://www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/publications/Skull cult at Göbekli Tepehttps://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.1700564Göbekli Tepe World Heritage Sitehttps://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1572/There’s a detailed discussion of Göbekli Tepe and its role in humanity’s split from nature in chapter 2 of my book: The Human Cosmos.https://jomarchant.com/human-cosmos*** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Hosted by Jo Marchant:https://jomarchant.com Produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada:https://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re talking about life, the universe and everything – literally! My guest is cosmologist Marina Cortês of the University of Lisbon. Marina trained as a dancer before helping to shake up cosmology with some revolutionary ideas about the nature of time. As if that wasn’t enough – she’s now using the tools of theoretical physics to investigate the significance of life in the universe, in a new field that she and her colleagues call biocosmology. Marina’s work goes against many of the normal assumptions of physics. Put simply, you could see the conventional approach as attempting to describe everything in the universe through a set of fundamental laws and equations. And if something that we experience in the universe – like the forwards flow of time, say, or our ability to make our own choices – doesn’t fit into those equations, the mainstream view would be to say, well, that thing is an illusion. No matter how important it might seem to us, it doesn’t really exist.Marina is doing a different kind of cosmology, that puts life, and our experience of it, first. She’s asking, how can we use the mathematical tools of cosmology and theoretical physics to describe the universe we are actually living in? I think that’s such an exciting question, and it’s leading to some fascinating findings that could transform how we see life: from a process that simply shuffles atoms into different arrangements towards a force that continually rewrites the playing field, bursting beyond the fundamental equations and laws of physics to create completely new possibilities at every stage. I caught up with Marina for a tour of the “biocosmos”. Marina’s home pagehttps://marinacortes.org/ Introduction to biocosmologyhttps://marinacortes.org/cosmology-cortes-time-biocosmology-astrophysics-marina/#biocosmology Marina launching biocosmology from Everest base camphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2HiNlqu0Lc Short talk by Marina on biocosmologyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TH4UsyE3fo&t=3s 2023 paper on biocosmology by Marina, Stuart Kauffman, Andrew Liddle & Lee Smolinhttps://arxiv.org/abs/2204.09378 The universe as a process of unique events: 2014 paper by Marina Cortês & Lee Smolinhttps://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.90.084007 2021 paper on time and consciousness by Marina Cortês & Lee Smolinhttps://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/jcs/2021/00000028/f0020009/art00004 *** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Placebo effects are not about expectation, or positive thinking, and you don’t have to believe you’re taking a real drug to feel better. In fact, they are not in your mind at all, but your body.This is what self-confessed ‘deviant’ Ted Kaptchuk wants you to know, after conducting decades of research that has shocked the medical establishment and turned upside down conventional thinking about placebos.I’ve been a fan of Ted’s work ever since we first met in 2014, when I was researching my book Cure: A journey into the science of mind over body. He originally trained in Chinese medicine (one of the first westerners to do so in China), and he is now a professor of medicine at Harvard, where he directs Harvard’s Program in Placebo Studies and the Therapeutic Encounter.Ted has been doing some wild things there: listening to patients; thinking carefully about what’s really making us better when we receive a treatment; and exploring what happens if you give people medicine without the drugs.His trials break all the normal rules, but they show us how we might approach medicine differently, particularly for the very conditions that our drugs are usually worst at treating – from depression, fatigue, and anxiety to many skin conditions, gut problems and especially chronic pain. His results also dovetail perfectly with the latest results from neuroscience about how we perceive not just bodily symptoms, but our entire reality.I asked Ted about his rebellious background, the inspirations for some of his craziest experiments, and how to unlock our inner pharmacy. Ted Kaptchuk’s home page at Harvard:https://ghsm.hms.harvard.edu/faculty-staff/ted-jack-kaptchukTed’s website:https://www.tedkaptchuk.com/Lecture series I presented for The Great Courses on mind-body links in medicine (the first two are all about placebos, including Ted’s work):https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/the-power-of-mind-over-bodyHonest fakery: How placebos can treat chronic pain:https://www.nature.com/articles/535S14aTed’s first 2010 trial on honest placebos:https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0015591&Academic review on placebos for chronic pain (2020):https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m1668.abstract'The dress':https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress *** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram: @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sor2-Jhuwvc&list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada:https://www.yada-yada.net/  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're diving into the world of whales - as well as dolphins and other cetaceans - with biologist and filmmaker Tom Mustill, author of the fascinating book How to Speak Whale. I first learned about Tom’s work in 2023 when I attended a talk he gave at the British Library, and he began with the story of how on a kayaking trip he was almost crushed by a breaching humpback whale. After that experience, and the discovery that the whale may actually have saved his life by twisting in the air to avoid him, Tom became fascinated by the inner lives of these creatures, and by the exploding potential of technology, including AI, to monitor and understand what they’re getting up to beneath the waves. And there was one question he wanted to answer most of all about their complex communications: could we ever learn to understand them, even talk to them? That might seem a crazy question, but the availability of massive amounts of data, combined with AI algorithms, is now opening a door to decoding the patterns and structures in the vocalisations of all kinds of species, like a kind of Google Translate but for animals. I caught up with Tom to talk about the latest results, as well as what it’s like to be caught underneath a falling humpback - and why we should stop comparing animals’ abilities to ours, and instead open our minds to other kinds of experiences, to the alien horizons of their lives and worlds. Tom’s home pagehttps://www.tommustill.com/ Tom’s book, How To Speak Whale: A voyage into the future of animal communicationhttps://www.tommustill.com/how-to-speak-whale Footage of the humpback whale landing on Tom and Charlottehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee79_7CZ0uM How to be a whale: a half-hour listening journeyhttps://www.tommustill.com/howtobeawhale Project CETIhttps://www.projectceti.org/ Earth Species Projecthttps://www.earthspecies.org/ Happy Whalehttps://happywhale.com/home Tom’s humpbackhttps://happywhale.com/individual/1437 *** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram: @wildthoughts_pod *** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada:https://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're digging into how living creatures – including us – sense and respond to magnetic fields with quantum biologist Margaret Ahmad of the University of Sorbonne in Paris. For decades, biologists knew about striking examples of species apparently navigating by Earth’s magnetic field, from monarch butterflies to loggerhead turtles to racing pigeons. Yet for years, many physicists said any ‘magnetosense’ was impossible, insisting the Earth’s field is far too weak to affect any biological processes within living cells. And yet, life really had found a way, and Margaret was one of the key researchers who showed how.Back in the 1990s, she discovered a blue light receptor in plants, part of a mysterious family of proteins called cryptochromes, and she has since has pioneered research showing how these receptors don’t just sense light but magnetic fields, too. Through quantum physical effects, these proteins magnify impossibly weak magnetic signals into measurable biological responses in a cell. For Margaret, this connection with the magnetic fields around us is a fundamental characteristic of all life, that should transform our thinking about everything from bird migration, to plant growth, to health effects in humans – and might even lead to revolutionary medical treatments. I spoke to her about her research, what it’s like doing science ‘out on a limb’, as she puts it, and what to do when the evidence leads you off the beaten track… Margaret Ahmad at Sorbonne Universityhttps://www.ibps.sorbonne-universite.fr/en/ibps/directory/17216-Margaret-AhmadHypersensitivity to man-made electromagnetic fields: 2024 case reporthttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39108419/2024 review on cryptochromeshttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38495372/ New Scientist story I wrote about Ahmad’s work in 2020 (£)https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251835 2021 review on the bird magnetic compasshttps://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2021.667000/full Roswitha Wiltschko’s labhttps://www.goethe-university-frankfurt.de/47093824/Physiology_and_Ecology_of_Behaviour Some bacteria sense magnetic fields via magnetite crystals. It's possible these play a role in other species too, maybe even humanshttps://www.eneuro.org/content/6/2/ENEURO.0483-18.2019.abstract *** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're delving into one of the ancient world's biggest mysteries: the Herculaneum scrolls. Computer scientist Brent Seales of the University of Kentucky talks about a journey that has taken him from Mars to Beowulf to the Dead Sea and beyond. AI has been key to finally reading what's inside the scrolls -- but this is a story about human ingenuity, and what it takes to make an impossible dream come true. The Herculaneum scrolls are hundreds of Greek and Latin papyri, buried by the Vesuvius eruption in 79 AD and dug up in the 1700s. The scrolls were crushed and carbonised; when anyone tried to read them, they crumbled. Scholars had to accept the rest would never be opened. This is the only intact library we have from the classical world – complete texts, direct from the pens of ancient scribes. Yet we can’t read them. Until now. These unopenable scrolls are now being read, through the Vesuvius Challenge, which offers prizes for teams using AI to find the ink in X-ray scans. I’ve written several articles on this, and the pace of discovery has been jawdropping: scholars could soon read the whole library. But solving this problem hasn't just been about switching on AI. For me, the truly fascinating story is the 20 years of imagination, invention and persuasion that led to this point, all essentially due to one man who persevered even when everyone else thought the idea was crazy.Brent Sealeshttps://educelab.engr.uky.edu/w-brent-seales Vesuvius Challengehttps://scrollprize.org/ Schmidt Scienceshttps://www.schmidtsciences.org/focus-area-ai/My articles:Scaling up the Vesuvius Challenge: Apr 2025https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01087-yAI could rewrite history: Jan 2025https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-04161-zFirst passages revealed: Feb 2024https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00346-8Brent Seales' quest: Jul 2018https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/buried-ash-vesuvius-scrolls-are-being-read-new-xray-technique-180969358/ Journal papers:Reading En-Gedi scrollhttps://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.1601247 Recovering Herculaneum inkhttps://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0215775*** To support us, please rate & review the show!*** Subscribe for new episodes every Mon*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL WTWTA is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re exploring the secrets of bliss – with neurologist and epilepsy specialist Fabienne Picard of the Medical School of Geneva. Fabienne became fascinated by a rare condition called “ecstatic seizure” after reading the work of 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. He used his own experiences with epilepsy as inspiration, in particular a profound and intriguing feeling that would strike him just before the seizure itself. He wrote about how, for a few moments, all of his doubts and anxieties disappeared, and the world felt perfectly vivid and clear. “I feel entirely in harmony with myself and the whole world,” he wrote, “and this feeling is so strong and so delightful that for a few seconds of such bliss one would gladly give up ten years of one’s life, if not one’s whole life.” Fabienne asked her patients whether any of them had similar experiences, and found that some did, they’d just never had the opportunity to talk about it in conventional consultations. She has identified dozens of new cases, which has enabled her to pin down which part of the brain is involved, and even trigger this feeling in people who don’t have this kind of epilepsy.  I spoke to Fabienne about her patients, what she thinks is happening in their brains, and whether we might all one day be able to benefit from such episodes of bliss -- without the devastating seizures that follow.LINKS Fabienne’s home page at University Hospitals of Genevahttps://www.hug.ch/en/neurology/dr-fabienne-picard Ecstatic or mystical experience through epilepsy: 2023 paper by Fabienne & colleagueshttps://direct.mit.edu/jocn/article/35/9/1372/116669/Ecstatic-or-Mystical-Experience-through-Epilepsy Insular stimulation produces mental clarity and bliss: 2022 paper by Fabienne & colleagueshttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ana.26282Epilepsy and ecstatic experiences: 2021 paper by Fabienne & colleagueshttps://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/11/11/1384Fabienne’s talk to the Buddhist monks at Plum Villagehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M16k8Djz29A&t=1957s Epilepsy in the artistic creation of Dostoevsky: 2014 reviewhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2173580814000686 Dostoevsky’s epilepsy: 1990 case reporthttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2161565/ *** Subscribe for new episodes every Monday.*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Find edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWLWhere The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this first episode of Where the Wild Thoughts Are, I chat to Paco Calvo, prof of cognitive science from the University of Murcia in Spain. He’s author of the fascinating Planta sapiens: Unmasking Plant Intelligence, and he researches the neurobiology of plants. From bean plants searching out supports to climb up, to parasitic vines chasing down prey, to slow-growing oak trees, Paco is convinced that not only are plants showing intelligent behaviour, they’re sentient, awake, aware. Perhaps you’re convinced that of course plants aren’t thinking! But is that based on evidence? Could there be other routes to intelligence than the neurons we happen to find in our own brains? Paco and I discuss how to tell if an organism is intelligent; some of plants’ most impressive abilities (my favourite is the chameleon vine); as well as the mechanics of botanical decision-making. And, of course, we talk about the ethical implications… What would it even mean to start considering our plant companions as sentient?Paco’s lab at University of Murciahttps://www.um.es/mintlab/index.php/about/people/paco-calvo/ Paco’s book, Planta sapiens: The New Science of Plant Intelligence (written with Natalie Lawrence)https://www.um.es/mintlab/index.php/publications/planta-sapiens/ ‘Do plants behave?’: 2024 paperhttps://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/kr69e_v1 ‘Plant sentience revisited’: 2023 paperhttps://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1830&context=animsent ‘The potential of plant action potentials’: 2023 paperhttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11229-023-04398-7 ‘A case study of learning in plants: Lessons learned from pea plants’: 2023 paperhttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/17470218231203078 Video: ‘Reflections of a plant intelligence maverick’: 2025 lecture by Paco Calvohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-l1vJNm2H0&t=1s Michael Pollan on how timelapse photography reveals the inner life of plantshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPql1VHbYl4 *** Subscribe for new episodes every Monday*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL  Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When physicists investigate the very smallest components of reality – atoms and subatomic particles – they famously find all sorts of things that make no sense. Particles can apparently be in different places at once, and they have different properties depending on how we measure them. Spooky effects seem to act instantaneously, across vast distances. The decisions we make can even alter journeys that particles have already made. Researchers have come up with different interpretations for what these weird results might mean. Maybe mysterious waves we can’t measure are guiding the course of the entire universe. Or maybe there are countless parallel universes, hosting different versions of ourselves... What if none of these ideas is wild enough? My guest in this episode, quantum physicist Chris Fuchs from the University of Massachusetts, thinks physicists are still being boxed in by their assumptions about reality. Chris has pioneered a new interpretation of quantum mechanics, called QBism, which says that the probabilities and predictions of quantum physics were never describing physical entities out there in the world. Instead, he says, they are telling us about… us. QBism is seen by many physicists as extreme, but it’s also wild, lawless, freeing and I love it! Our tour of the QBist universe took us from starships and black holes to party games, gambling and free will. Enjoy.‘Introducing QBism’: 2014 paper by Chris Fuchshttps://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher-Fuchs/publication/300478790_Introducing_QBism/links/575027c008aefe968db723df/Introducing-QBism.pdf‘QBism: Where next?’ 2023 research paper on the future of QBismhttps://arxiv.org/abs/2303.01446Nautilus feature article on Chris Fuchs and QBismhttps://nautil.us/my-quantum-leap-238433/Excerpt on QBism from Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freemanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQvCTZgNRNwDocumentary on QBism produced by the Essentia Foundationhttps://youtu.be/nSqDMtHoaT0 *** Subscribe for new episodes every Monday*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL  Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada https://www.yada-yada.net/. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the search for alien life, we don’t always hear much about Venus. There’s a lot of effort going into detecting possible signs of life on Mars, and looking for potentially habitable planets beyond our solar system. Venus seems a crazy place to look for aliens: its surface is burning hot, hot enough to melt lead; and it has clouds made of concentrated acid. But could a very different kind of life from ours be living in those cloud droplets? My guest is astronomer Jane Greaves, from the University of Cardiff. A few years ago, she used a telescope in Hawaii to scan Venus’s clouds for a molecule called phosphine. On earth, phosphine is rare, its only natural source is microbes in certain oxygen-starved environments. We don’t currently know of any way it could be made on Venus, apart from life, but Jane figured why not just have a look anyway. And she found it… Some findings immediately touch a nerve. Researchers immediately criticised her work, attacking the team scientifically and personally. But Jane and her colleagues have been working to gather more data and they’re building an ever-stronger picture that phosphine really is there in the clouds. That would mean either some really fascinating chemistry we’ve never thought of before – or potential life. And this just adds to a list of mysterious features on Venus, from strange particles in the clouds; to gases in amounts very different from what we’d expect; to something unexplained that is absorbing huge amounts of energy from the solar radiation hitting the planet... Jane and I chat about her latest results, and what she thinks about the chances of life elsewhere, as well as the importance of going against the grain sometimes, to explore questions others might think are too crazy to ask.Jane Greaves at Cardiff Universityhttps://profiles.cardiff.ac.uk/staff/greavesj1Jane and team’s 2020 paper reporting phosphine in Venus’s cloudshttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-020-1174-4The team’s response to criticisms of the 2020 paperhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-021-01424-xGuardian story on 2024 evidence for Venus phosphine & maybe ammoniahttps://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ast.2023.00822024 review of unexplained features on Venushttps://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2022.00602024 paper showing amino acids are stable in sulfuric acidhttps://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ast.2023.0082*** Subscribe for new episodes every Monday*** Follow us on Instagram @wildthoughts_pod*** Edited highlights on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhB4lyBDyjTliuz_h5oHwN6H8HoxS7qWL  Where The Wild Thoughts Are is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yadahttps://www.yada-yada.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Listen to some clips from Jo Marchant's new science podcast in which she interviews scientists who are asking deep questions, chasing outrageous dreams, and exploring the world in completely new ways. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.