Most lawyers remember what their first two years of practicing law were like. There’s a lot to learn and sometimes not much guidance. What do you know now that you wish you knew then? Sonia Russo sits down with a panel of young lawyers who have been practicing for several years. They share wisdom on topics like setting boundaries at work and recovering from mistakes. Whether you’re in your first two years of practice or beyond, the advice from our guests Danielle Borel, Silvia Mansoor, and Jess Arena will be insightful. Special thanks to our sponsor, The Velvet Hammer.
Sonia Russo returns for a special announcement about upcoming season two. Stay tuned for new episodes.
Everybody wants your data, from companies to hackers to governments. Guest Lexi Lutz is senior corporate counsel, and privacy watchdog, at Nordstrom. She advises the company on the legal implications of AI, cybersecurity, privacy, and data protection. As computers get smarter and capabilities expand, it’s more important than ever to maintain legal guardrails and understand potential pitfalls. Lutz starts with keeping up with the slew of developing state privacy laws and international regulations. Corporations handle massive amounts of data, much of it confidential. Privacy disclosures, terms of service, customer service, data breaches, and transparency are all factors. It’s a lot for any legal team to manage, and the field is only getting bigger. Hear how Lutz got her start in corporate data and privacy law, how she approaches her duties, and how she helps the rest of the corporation understand where the vulnerabilities and minefields lie. As a lawyer, you understand your duty to maintain confidentiality. But as computing capabilities surge, and in the murky and evolving world of AI, there’s a growing need for attorneys who understand and stay on top of lurking challenges to privacy and data security. Everything from massive customer database hacks to simply sending an email using a coffee shop’s WiFi can create data security issues. (And Lutz reminds us, change your passwords frequently). Resources: Microsoft Outlook email encryption Google Gmail encryption “Twenty Years Ago, AIM Chatbot SmarterChild Out-Snarked ChatGPT,” TechCrunch ChatGPT “’She Hooked Me’: How an Online Scam Cost a Senior Citizen His Life’s Savings,” Wall Street Journal Justin S. Daniels at Baker Donelson, videos American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
One challenge young lawyers encounter—especially in demanding corporate roles—is starting a family while advancing in their careers. Managing and balancing work and family isn’t something they teach in school. Guest Kimberly “Kim” Maney is a busy, successful in-house corporate attorney for a global corporation. She’s also a mom and a spouse who taught herself how to balance 10-hour days and constant demands from her job while carving out time for family. Raising a family is hard work, everything from coordinating childcare to spending meaningful time with children. And then, later, as kids grow up, there are soccer games, ballet recitals, and vacations. In today’s world of connectivity, it can be too easy to just “take a call” during the family trip to Disney World. You’ll need to develop and communicate boundaries with your coworkers and your organization. Maney shares how she leaned on coworkers who were already parents and even Facebook parent support groups as she learned to create space for family while excelling at her job. Stephen C. Dinkel served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. Resources: Legal Careers of Parents and Child Caregivers: Results and Best Practices from a National Study of the Legal Profession Parenthood Positivity: How to Use Parenthood in the Trajectory of Your Legal Career Parental Leave in the Legal Field: Managing Employee and Employer Expectations Attorneys Make the Case for Equal Parental Leave Balancing Fatherhood and a Legal Career as a Young Lawyer Juggling a Firm and a Family Tips for Balancing a Legal Career and First-Time Motherhood American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Guest Nancy Maurice shares her unique background as she followed her curiosity and leaned on her courage to explore several countries throughout her education—ultimately landing a position as an associate with a New York-area law firm. Maurice is a native of France, where she learned English while growing up. She crossed the English Channel and earned her first law degree in England, a LL.B. Next, Maurice returned to Paris to obtain more degrees in law. Afterward, she moved to Louisiana, where she enrolled at Louisiana State University to obtain her LL.M. Maurice takes all her knowledge, skills, and legal expertise to assist clients in New York City. Maurice learned law in a second language, crossed an ocean, and settled in the United States as a foreign resident. She navigated a foreign culture, including the legal culture, found her fit, and proved she could get the job done. Maurice learned that nothing is out of reach if you pursue your goals and take chances. Hear how she accepted every challenge, gave presentations and webinars, learned to speak confidently in public, and proved herself, even when others told her something was impossible. RESOURCES: “Things Left Unsaid: Implicit Obligations Under Louisiana Law in Star Financial Services, Inc. V. Cardtronics USA, Inc.,” by Nancy MauriceAmerican Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division How Foreign-Trained Attorneys Can Become Attorneys in the United States
Guest Mary Smith is an accomplished attorney and the first Native American woman to become president of the American Bar Association. In addition to a distinguished career in legal leadership for billion-dollar organizations, including CEO of the national organization Indian Health Services, she is also active in many civic organizations, including the Caroline and Ora Smith Foundation, dedicated to helping young Native American women forge careers in STEM fields. Smith’s career took a long and winding path, including a stop serving in the White House and the Department of Justice, along with billion-dollar publicly traded companies. Smith said the key has been to remain curious and open to new opportunities throughout her career. Being willing to take risks and face various challenges has driven her career to amazing heights. Smith explains how she never limited herself to any presupposed direction. Sometimes, you think you’ve selected a singular path, but if you remain open to new opportunities, that path can lead you to places you’ve never imagined and take you higher than you thought possible. As Smith says in this inspiring episode: “Be true to yourself. Believe in yourself. And seek help, mentors, and others who can help along the way.” Resources: “Asked & Answered: Mary Smith, ’91, President, American Bar Association,” University of Chicago School of Law Caroline and Ora Smith Foundation American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division Native Americans: A Crisis in Health Equity ABA President to Students: You Will Change the Practice of Law Working to Ensure an Enduring American Democracy ABA Task Force for American Democracy
As a new lawyer, have you ever considered a career in government oversight? It’s a broad, important field that ensures a wide range of agencies work as designed while protecting public funds and interests. Guest Lucy Lang is a former prosecutor now serving as the New York Inspector General. She is charged with overseeing investigations into corruption, fraud, and abuse in the New York State government (more than 100 agencies) and has been a steady advocate of criminal justice reform. Lang shares her path and passion in this inspiring episode of Young Lawyer Rising. The complex nature of Lang’s work depends heavily on her ability to lead, a skill she had to learn on her own and is now pressing the legal education field to include in law school curriculum. Seeking out mentors, learning on the job, and taking on new challenges were all part of her career growth. “If not you, then who,” she asks. “Be brave; take the bull by the horns.” Get an inside look at the workings of government oversight, the value of public service, untangling difficult ethical decisions, and making a positive difference through leadership. It could be just what you need to help you take your next, bold step. Resources: New York Offices of the Inspector General New York State Offices of the Inspector General, Job Postings Lucy Lang, Wikipedia “Lucy Lang ’06: An Advocate for Criminal Justice Reform and Government Integrity,” Columbia University News Lucy Lang, Selected Publications “New York State Inspector General Report Finds Persistent Racial Disparities in Discipline Within New York State Prisons” “NYS Parks Employee Pleads Guilty to Official Misconduct” New York State government oversight hotline: 1-800-DO RIGHT New York Offices of the Inspector General on Twitter/X ABA Section of State and Local Government Law American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Environmental law is a dynamic field that evolves rapidly with new challenges as they emerge but also against the backdrop of the politics of state and federal administrations. Regulatory focus shifts from administration to administration and crisis to crisis, creating a challenging area of law for those who practice it. Our guest, David Mandelbaum, is a shareholder with the firm of Greenberg Traurig and has practiced environmental law since 1984. He’s seen a lot, from focusing on solid waste landfills decades ago to today’s challenges created by a changing climate. Legal procedures vary from state to state in addition to how the federal government oversees environmental issues, challenging practitioners to understand the law and the issues and the procedural process. Laws and statutes are in constant flux. For newer lawyers, Mandelbaum says the constant changes in the field of environmental law level the playing field between experienced attorneys and those getting out of law school. Changes come so fast that a new lawyer who has studied the latest regulations and cases can be on equal footing with someone who has practiced in the field for decades. In this field, it’s never “the way we’ve always done it.” If you’ve ever considered a career in environmental law, this discussion may open your eyes to new opportunities. Resources: “SEC Adopts Rules to Enhance and Standardize Climate-Related Disclosures for Investors,” SEC.gov Superfunds and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency “EPA Imposes First National Limits On 'Forever Chemicals' In Drinking Water,” NBC news Pennsylvania Environmental Law Forum 2024 Different Career Paths in Environmental Law Nurturing the Future of Animal Law American Bar Association on Environment, Energy, and Resources American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Guest Evita Nwosu-Sylvester focuses on the civil rights and fair lending needs of middle- to low-income earners in their quest for affordable housing. She works in multifamily fair lending operations at Freddie Mac (the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp.). But Nwosu-Sylvester is also a fighter for rights, fair hiring needs, and workplace accommodation for those embracing disabilities. Nwosu-Sylvester followed a nontraditional path to her legal career. She earned her undergraduate degree in psychology with the goal of pursuing that field, focusing on helping people with disabilities. Then, the idea of putting a law degree to work in the field of disability and civil rights attracted her. Throughout her education, she worked to embrace her own disability – cerebral palsy – and learn how to live independently while making a difference. In her legal career, Nwosu-Sylvester shows organizations that people with disabilities are capable, valuable contributors. Accommodation doesn’t have to be insurmountable or expensive, and Nwosu-Sylvester and her team regularly make themselves available to help organizations understand and develop neurodiversity policies and programs. RESOURCES: U.S. Department of Labor Job Accommodation Network (JAN) ABA Commission on Disability Rights The American Association of People With Disabilities American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Guest Michael Kippins is a Boston-based civil rights attorney with Lawyers For Civil Rights. Driven by a desire to advocate for those too often left without robust representation, Kippins made the courageous jump from a big law setting to his civil rights practice and hasn’t looked back. In one of his high-profile cases, Kippins is challenging what the suit describes as Harvard University’s system of admission bias toward “legacy” students and the harm that practice poses to communities, including first-generation students and students of color. During the episode, Kippins discusses the differences between civil rights law and his previous role in big law. From working with community groups to prioritizing public awareness of his cases, the range of skills required as a civil rights attorney is diverse and unique to the practice. A career in civil rights litigation can be a labor of love and fulfill a passion. Hear how the work civil rights attorneys does make a difference in people’s lives. If you’ve been interested in pro bono work, if you’ve found something missing in another area of law, or if you’re simply curious about civil rights law, this is an episode you can’t miss. Christina Gregg served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. Resources: Why I Became a Civil Rights Attorney ABA Civil Rights and Social Justice Section Lawyers For Civil Rights Lawyers For Civil Rights, Facebook Lawyers For Civil Rights, Email: office@lawyersforcivilrights.org Massachusetts Black Lawyers Association Boys & Girls Club of Boston Newsweek, “Harvard Faces Another Legal Fight Over Its Admissions” Reuters, “Harvard 'Legacy' Policy Challenged On Heels Of Affirmative Action Ruling” SXSW Educational Seminar Week American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Happy New Year, and what a year that was. Host Montana Funk sits down with Tamara Nash, chair of the American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division, to review 2023 and share stories from listeners about the past year. For listeners, it was a year of lessons learned. Learning how to separate work and life is difficult, but in one case, a young lawyer reported that an unexpected health issue forced her to learn what life’s about and that it’s OK to ask for help. Hear how she learned that being a good lawyer means being a healthy lawyer. Take care of yourself. In another letter, a listener shares how, like our host, they moved to the United States and took on a career in law. Leaning on the resources of the American Bar Association and the state bar has proven crucial to success in a challenging field. And it was a year of “back to normal” after those crazy COVID years. For young lawyers who worked through the pandemic, 2023 was a time to catch up on the training and mentoring they missed. Hear how a senior lawyer recognized that gap and redoubled efforts to help younger attorneys. Rebuild connections, professional and personal. Young Lawyer Rising is more than a podcast; it’s a community. Draw inspiration from how others overcame life’s bumps during the past year. Embrace your professional colleagues and know that you’re never alone. Support is all around you. Blair Hlinka served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. Resources: Thinking Like a Lawyer to Navigate the Challenges of Long COVID Pushing Yourself Too Hard? Your Health and Wellness Matters How to Make Your Law Firm See the Benefits of Bar Involvement 5 Tips for Mentoring and Managing Legal Interns The Importance of Mentorship and Sponsorship in the Legal Profession University of South Dakota Knudson School of Law American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
It’s been said there are only two things in life that are certain: death and taxes. Guest Anthony DeRiso can help with one of them. He’s a tax attorney. It may sound like a daunting career path, but it really isn’t, DeRiso says. It’s about helping people chart a course to a desired outcome. Being a transactional tax attorney makes you the “coach,” drawing up plans as teams of attorneys deal with contractual issues. Then, there are opportunities to help clients untangle IRS-related civil and criminal matters. And there are even opportunities to serve charitable, tax-exempt organizations. From individual clients to corporations to charities, it’s about solving puzzles and finding solutions. If you’ve never considered tax law as a specialty, what you hear from DeRiso might surprise you. Get some tips on how to get started, whether you’re in law school now or are already practicing. Carneil Wilson served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. RESOURCES: United States Tax Court circuit schedule Have You Considered a Career in Tax Law? Do You Need Specialized Training to Practice Tax Law? The Advanced Degrees and Certifications That Help New Lawyers Move Their Careers Forward Tax Dispute Survival Guide American Bar Association Section of Taxation American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
Professor Tony Ghiotto went from the battlefield to the classroom. He started his legal career in the Air Force Judge Advocate General Corps, and he explains how his career took him from Afghanistan to a law school classroom. Saddled with student debt, and after an unexpected meeting with a JAG representative, Ghiotto found himself in the Air Force. Within his first two weeks as a full member of the JAG, he was in the courtroom trying a case. There were pros and cons. Struggles included feeling overwhelmed and making mistakes early on, but the pros were getting a lot of courtroom experience in a hurry and learning on the job. From practicing law in a tent in Afghanistan to a boardroom in Washington, DC, “It made me grow up and gave me some direction,” Ghiotto says. Thanks to the JAG, he practiced in multiple fields. One of his oddest cases involved a low-flying jet causing a cow to give birth prematurely. His criminal cases ranged from traffic tickets to reviewing wartime procedures and civilian casualties. If you’ve ever considered starting a legal career in the military, this is a don’t-miss episode. (And, bonus, Ghiotto is open to mentoring any young lawyer considering a JAG career. Drop him a note). Stephen C. Dinkel served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. Resources: Why Should You Become a JAG Officer? Army JAG Careers Provide Financial Incentives for Those Interested in Foregoing the Traditional Path The Army Judge Advocate General’s Funded Legal Education Program American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division Air Force Judge Advocate General Corps JAG School University of Illinois College of Law
Is practicing law all dusting off established precedents and applying old case law? No way. Guest Jessica Gonzalez shares how she broke free, followed her passions, and found herself a pioneer in the wildly evolving arena of cannabis law. Gonzalez started in the usual practice of law for a firm after graduating. Contracts, paperwork, and a less-than-satisfying experience. Then, she started looking at the emerging field of cannabis law. Trademark protections, navigating vague state regulations, labeling, packaging, and CBD guidelines all need a lawyer’s touch. And few lawyers were serving the industry, one of the fastest-growing sectors worldwide. Hear how Gonzalez followed her dreams, cultivated her personal brand, and forged ahead into an exciting and unknown world. She shares tips for getting established as a thought leader and building a recognizable brand as she created a consultancy business and educational programs and began teaching cannabis issues at the graduate level. Looking for a career in an emerging area of the law and “building the airplane as you fly?” Be part of legal history and set the precedents instead of following them. This is a fast-paced, creative part of the legal world that’s just getting started. Christina Gregg served as the associate producer on this episode of Young Lawyer Rising. Resources: Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division New Jersey Business Action Center “New Jersey Cannabis Advocate Named As Consultant To Build No-Cost Cannabis Technical Assistance Program,” New Jersey state news release The ABA Law Student Podcast: A Career in Cannabis Law with Jerome Crawford ABA Career Center Career Choice Webinar on Cannabis Law
Host Montana Funk (herself a Canadian living and working in the United States) talks with immigration lawyer Stephanie Baez about the many facets of immigration law—a field that has been in the public eye a lot recently. Immigration law covers an array of niches, including employment and business immigration, student visas, and removal defense—fighting for desperate clients against deportation. Cases range from emotional courtroom litigation to overcoming mountains of paperwork. The field can be rewarding and plays an enormous role in the country’s history and the lives of families today. It is advocacy in the truest sense of the word. The field offers opportunities to serve private, public, and nonprofit interests. Young lawyers could find themselves helping large corporations to attract workers from other countries or working for a nonprofit helping immigrants apply for asylum as protection against dangers in their home countries. Baez describes how she found her way from law school to the fascinating and vital field of immigration law. Guest References: American Bar Association Commission On Immigration, Website American Bar Association Commission On Immigration, LinkedIn American Bar Association Immigration Justice Project San Diego Volunteer Lawyer Program Additional Resources Balancing Ethics and Zealous Advocacy for Undocumented Clients In the Trenches: Representing Migrant and Seasonal Farmworkers ABA Young Lawyers Division
Guest Alexandra Graves tells her story, and it’s unreal. Bad things happen to good people. She was experiencing headaches and vision issues as a 2L and discovered she had a brain tumor. She needed neurosurgery and had to withdraw from classes. Then she started over. If you hit obstacles, and you will, you can overcome them. Life can throw you for a loop. You can fight back. You are not alone. Graves’ story is an inspiring tale of pursuing dreams, no matter what. She took a step back and went back to law school. But while studying for the bar, her brain tumor came back, and she failed the exam. Anyone can fail because of medical issues or other distractions. Failing the bar, for whatever reason, hurts. But it’s not the end of the world, and you can regroup and pass if you don’t give up. Through it all, Graves learned what’s important to her. She set her priorities (she loves spending life with her animals, especially her new baby donkey, and being close to her family). Do what you love and love what you do. Don’t sweat the small stuff (or even some of the big stuff). You got this. Plus, an update on some big legal rulings: Andy Warhol, Prince, Fair Use, NIL rules (College athletes), and more.
If you’re getting started, or thinking about getting started, trying criminal trials, this episode is a gold mine. Learn from one of the most noted and experienced trial attorneys out there, guest Paul Mark Sandler, a longtime attorney, author, and lecturer. This is an opportunity to hear from one of the best. Lessons on ethics and insider courtroom tips. Learn about your relationship with the jury, the judge, and opposing counsel. How to question witnesses. How to prepare. You didn’t learn this in law school, but Sandler can cut the learning curve in just a half hour podcast. Hear what a criminal trial actually looks like, both in the courtroom and behind the scenes. You can learn this the hard way, or you can learn here from Sandler. If you want to be a great trial lawyer, you have to try cases. There’s no way around that. But you can avoid some basic mistakes. A trial is structured simply. But at each step, it’s all about the details. Hear three key tips for new trial attorneys. And what about hiring a jury consultant? (spoiler, yes, do. Sandler learned this from Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall. You’ll want to hear this story.) Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division “The Art of Persuasion: Essays on Rhetoric in the Courtroom” by Paul Mark Sandler “Boot Camp Trial Training Programs Committee,” American College of Trial Lawyers Aristotle, “Rhetoric”
Mental health, wellness, and managing burnout made headlines during and after the pandemic. But what did we learn? Guest Richard Rivera, a highly successful partner at a Florida law firm, knows we should. Many of us work too much and too hard and push beyond reasonable limits. Rivera knows firsthand. He was a fourth-year associate in a litigation focused firm, and he said yes to everything. Any new case, any new project, he was game. It was a matter of professional pride and rapid development. Then he noticed the stress was taking a physical toll on his body resulting in itchy and yellowing skin, fatigue, and sleepless nights. He figured eventually things would slow down and these conditions would pass. Of course, neither happened. A doctor eventually found the constant stress had taken an enormous toll on his body. Set boundaries: a time you won’t go to the office before or stay after; take at least one day off – really off – during the week. You only have so much capacity, and when you exceed that, you damage yourself and you can harm your clients and your firm with errors due to exhaustion. If you’re not good to yourself, you’ll be no good to anyone. Take a moment to listen to this critically important episode. By Rich Rivera My Experience with Organ Transplantation Additional Resources How Sleep Affects Your Health How Lawyers Can Manage Stress and Cortisol Levels How to Talk about Mental Health with Your Employer ABA Young Lawyers Division ABA Commission on Lawyer Assistance Programs
From the depths of addiction to helping attorneys overcome their own, lawyer and author Brian Cuban joins the show to share his personal journey, as well as shed light on the often overlooked issue of substance abuse within the legal community. Drawing from his own struggles, Brian highlights the unique pressures, stressors, and challenges which can commonly lead lawyers down the path of addiction. He also offers valuable advice to attorneys and law school students who find themselves grappling with similar issues. Tune in as we delve into the prominence of substance abuse, events that can contribute to addiction, available resources for support and guidance, and the steps lawyers can take towards a healthier and more fulfilling life. Additional Resources: Mental Health Options for Attorneys Dealing with a Death or Serious Illness How Lawyers Can Cope with Vicarious Trauma Voices of Recovery Podcast Series ABA Young Lawyers Division ABA Commission on Lawyer Assistance Programs
As legal professionals, many lawyers make a good income but struggle to build wealth or achieve financial stability. In this episode, we are joined by Rho Thomas, a lawyer turned financial coach and host of the Wealthyesque podcast. Rho shares her expertise and strategies for how lawyers can master their money to achieve financial independence and freedom in their lives. Learn common mistakes that lawyers make when it comes to managing their finances, as well as actionable tips and resources to help you build a solid financial plan that aligns with your goals and values. Whether you’re a young lawyer just starting out or an experienced attorney looking to improve your financial situation, this episode is packed with valuable insights and advice to help you achieve financial freedom and create the life you want. By Rho Thomas Wealthyesque: Money Talk for Lawyers Podcast How to Shift Your View of Your Student Loan Debt and Learn How to Manage It Additional Resources How to Prepare for the End of the Student Loan Payment Pause 15 Considerations for When You're Planning Your Student Loan Repayment What Is the Difference Between Student Loan Forbearance and Deferment? 3 Student Loan Mistakes New Lawyers Should Avoid 10 Tips to Help You Pay Off Your Student Loans and Save for Retirement How You Can Build Financial Security While Paying Off Your Student Loans ABA Young Lawyers Division Student Loans and Finances Advocacy