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Your Undivided Attention

Your Undivided Attention
Author: Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin, The Center for Humane Technology
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In this podcast from the Center for Humane Technology, co-hosts Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin explore the incredible power that technology has over our lives — and how we can use it to catalyze a humane future.
Join us every other Thursday as we confront challenges and explore solutions with a wide-range of thought leaders and change-makers — like Kate Raworth on renegade economics, Audrey Tang on digital democracy, Daniel Schmachtenberger on global coordination, and Yuval Noah Harari on the co-evolution of technology and democracy.
Your Undivided Attention is proud to be part of the TED Audio Collective. Our Senior Producer is Julia Scott, and our Associate Producer is Kirsten McMurray.
Join us every other Thursday as we confront challenges and explore solutions with a wide-range of thought leaders and change-makers — like Kate Raworth on renegade economics, Audrey Tang on digital democracy, Daniel Schmachtenberger on global coordination, and Yuval Noah Harari on the co-evolution of technology and democracy.
Your Undivided Attention is proud to be part of the TED Audio Collective. Our Senior Producer is Julia Scott, and our Associate Producer is Kirsten McMurray.
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There’s really no one better than veteran tech journalist Kara Swisher at challenging people to articulate their thinking. Tristan Harrris recently sat down with her for a wide ranging interview on AI risk. She even pressed Tristan on whether he is a doomsday prepper. It was so great, we wanted to share it with you here. The interview was originally on Kara’s podcast ON with Kara Swisher. If you like it and want to hear more of Kara’s interviews with folks like Sam Altman, Reid Hoffman and others, you can find more episodes of ON with Kara Swisher here: https://link.chtbl.com/_XTWwg3kRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES AI Myths and MisconceptionsThe AI DilemmaThe Three Rules of Humane TechYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
Democracy in action has looked the same for generations. Constituents might go to a library or school every one or two years and cast their vote for people who don't actually represent everything that they care about. Our technology is rapidly increasing in sophistication, yet our forms of democracy have largely remained unchanged. What would an upgrade look like - not just for democracy, but for all the different places that democratic decision-making happens?On this episode of Your Undivided Attention, we’re joined by political economist and social technologist Divya Siddarth, one of the world's leading experts in collective intelligence. Together we explore how new kinds of governance can be supported through better technology, and how collective decision-making is key to unlocking everything from more effective elections to better ways of responding to global problems like climate change.Correction:Tristan mentions Elon Musk’s attempt to manufacture ventilators early on in the COVID-19 pandemic. Musk ended up buying over 1,200 ventilators that were delivered to California.RECOMMENDED MEDIAAgainst Democracy by Jason BrennanA provocative challenge to one of our most cherished institutionsLedger of HarmsTechnology platforms have created a race for human attention that’s unleashed invisible harms to society. Here are some of the costs that aren't showing up on their balance sheetsThe Wisdom GapThis blog post from the Center for Humane Technology describes the gap between the rising interconnected complexity of our problems and our ability to make sense of themDemocracyNextDemocracyNext is working to design and establish new institutions for government and transform the governance of organizations that influence public lifeCIP.orgAn incubator for new governance models for transformative technologyEtheloTransform community engagement through consensusKazm’s Living Room ConversationsLiving Room Conversations works to heal society by connecting people across divides through guided conversations proven to build understanding and transform communitiesThe Citizens DialogueA model for citizen participation in Ostbelgien, which was brought to life by the parliament of the German-speaking communityAsamblea Ciudadana Para El ClimaSpain’s national citizens’ assembly on climate changeClimate Assembly UKThe UK’s national citizens’ assembly on climate changeCitizens’ Convention for the ClimateFrance’s national citizens’ assembly on climate changePolisPolis is a real-time system for gathering, analyzing and understanding what large groups of people think in their own words, enabled by advanced statistics and machine learningRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESDigital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey Tang They Don’t Represent Us with Larry LessigA Renegade Solution to Extractive Economics with Kate RaworthYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
A few episodes back, we presented Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin’s talk The AI Dilemma. People inside the companies that are building generative artificial intelligence came to us with their concerns about the rapid pace of deployment and the problems that are emerging as a result. We felt called to lay out the catastrophic risks that AI poses to society and sound the alarm on the need to upgrade our institutions for a post-AI world.The talk resonated - over 1.6 million people have viewed it on YouTube as of this episode’s release date. The positive reception gives us hope that leaders will be willing to come to the table for a difficult but necessary conversation about AI.However, now that so many people have watched or listened to the talk, we’ve found that there are some AI myths getting in the way of making progress. On this episode of Your Undivided Attention, we debunk five of those misconceptions. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Opinion | Yuval Harari, Tristan Harris, and Aza Raskin on Threats to Humanity Posed by AI - The New York TimesIn this New York Times piece, Yuval Harari, Tristan Harris, and Aza Raskin call upon world leaders to respond to this moment at the level of challenge it presents.Misalignment, AI & MolochA deep dive into the game theory and exponential growth underlying our modern economic system, and how recent advancements in AI are poised to turn up the pressure on that system, and its wider environment, in ways we have never seen beforeRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESThe AI DilemmaThe Three Rules of Humane TechCan We Govern AI? with Marietje SchaakeYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
Despite our serious concerns about the pace of deployment of generative artificial intelligence, we are not anti-AI. There are uses that can help us better understand ourselves and the world around us. Your Undivided Attention co-host Aza Raskin is also co-founder of Earth Species Project, a nonprofit dedicated to using AI to decode non-human communication. ESP is developing this technology both to shift the way that we relate to the rest of nature, and to accelerate conservation research.Significant recent breakthroughs in machine learning have opened ways to encode both human languages and map out patterns of animal communication. The research, while slow and incredibly complex, is very exciting. Picture being able to tell a whale to dive to avoid ship strikes, or to forge cooperation in conservation areas. These advances come with their own complex ethical issues. But understanding non-human languages could transform our relationship with the rest of nature and promote a duty of care for the natural world.In a time of such deep division, it’s comforting to know that hidden underlying languages may potentially unite us. When we study the patterns of the universe, we’ll see that humanity isn’t at the center of it. Corrections:Aza refers to the founding of Earth Species Project (ESP) in 2017. The organization was established in 2018.When offering examples of self-awareness in animals, Aza mentions lemurs that get high on centipedes. They actually get high on millipedes. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Using AI to Listen to All of Earth’s SpeciesAn interactive panel discussion hosted at the World Economic Forum in San Francisco on October 25, 2022. Featuring ESP President and Cofounder Aza Raskin; Dr. Karen Bakker, Professor at UBC and Harvard Radcliffe Institute Fellow; and Dr. Ari Friedlaender, Professor at UC Santa CruzWhat A Chatty Monkey May Tell Us About Learning to TalkThe gelada monkey makes a gurgling sound that scientists say is close to human speechLemurs May Be Making Medicine Out of MillipedesRed-fronted lemurs appear to use plants and other animals to treat their afflictionsFathom on AppleTV+Two biologists set out on an undertaking as colossal as their subjects – deciphering the complex communication of whales Earth Species Project is Hiring a Director of ResearchESP is looking for a thought leader in artificial intelligence with a track record of managing a team of researchers RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The Three Rules of Humane TechThe AI DilemmaSynthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At Stake Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
When it comes to AI, what kind of regulations might we need to address this rapidly developing new class of technologies? What makes regulating AI and runaway tech in general different from regulating airplanes, pharmaceuticals, or food? And how can we ensure that issues like national security don't become a justification for sacrificing civil rights?Answers to these questions are playing out in real time. If we wait for more AI harms to emerge before proper regulations are put in place, it may be too late. Our guest Marietje Schaake was at the forefront of crafting tech regulations for the EU. In spite of AI’s complexity, she argues there is a path forward for the U.S. and other governing bodies to rein in companies that continue to release these products into the world without oversight. Correction: Marietje said antitrust laws in the US were a century ahead of those in the EU. Competition law in the EU was enacted as part of the Treaty of Rome in 1957, almost 70 years after the US. RECOMMENDED MEDIA The AI Dilemma Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin’s presentation on existing AI capabilities and the catastrophic risks they pose to a functional society. Also available in the podcast format (linked below)The Wisdom GapThis blog post from the Center for Humane Technology describes the gap between the rising interconnected complexity of our problems and our ability to make sense of themThe EU’s Digital Services Act (DSA) & Digital Markets Act (DMA)The two pieces of legislation aim to create safer and more open digital spaces for individuals and businesses alike RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESDigital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey TangThe AI DilemmaThe Three Rules of Humane TechYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
In our previous episode, we shared a presentation Tristan and Aza recently delivered to a group of influential technologists about the race happening in AI. In that talk, they introduced the Three Rules of Humane Technology. In this Spotlight episode, we’re taking a moment to explore these three rules more deeply in order to clarify what it means to be a responsible technologist in the age of AI.Correction: Aza mentions infinite scroll being in the pockets of 5 billion people, implying that there are 5 billion smartphone users worldwide. The number of smartphone users worldwide is actually 6.8 billion now. RECOMMENDED MEDIA We Think in 3D. Social Media Should, TooTristan Harris writes about a simple visual experiment that demonstrates the power of one’s point of viewLet’s Think About Slowing Down AIKatja Grace’s piece about how to avert doom by not building the doom machineIf We Don’t Master AI, It Will Master UsYuval Harari, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin call upon world leaders to respond to this moment at the level of challenge it presents in this New York Times opinion piece RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The AI DilemmaSynthetic humanity: AI & What’s At Stake Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
You may have heard about the arrival of GPT-4, OpenAI’s latest large language model (LLM) release. GPT-4 surpasses its predecessor in terms of reliability, creativity, and ability to process intricate instructions. It can handle more nuanced prompts compared to previous releases, and is multimodal, meaning it was trained on both images and text. We don’t yet understand its capabilities - yet it has already been deployed to the public.At Center for Humane Technology, we want to close the gap between what the world hears publicly about AI from splashy CEO presentations and what the people who are closest to the risks and harms inside AI labs are telling us. We translated their concerns into a cohesive story and presented the resulting slides to heads of institutions and major media organizations in New York, Washington DC, and San Francisco. The talk you're about to hear is the culmination of that work, which is ongoing.AI may help us achieve major advances like curing cancer or addressing climate change. But the point we're making is: if our dystopia is bad enough, it won't matter how good the utopia we want to create. We only get one shot, and we need to move at the speed of getting it right.RECOMMENDED MEDIAAI ‘race to recklessness’ could have dire consequences, tech experts warn in new interviewTristan Harris and Aza Raskin sit down with Lester Holt to discuss the dangers of developing AI without regulationThe Day After (1983)This made-for-television movie explored the effects of a devastating nuclear holocaust on small-town residents of KansasThe Day After discussion panelModerated by journalist Ted Koppel, a panel of present and former US officials, scientists and writers discussed nuclear weapons policies live on television after the film airedZia Cora - Submarines “Submarines” is a collaboration between musician Zia Cora (Alice Liu) and Aza Raskin. The music video was created by Aza in less than 48 hours using AI technology and published in early 2022RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Synthetic humanity: AI & What’s At StakeA Conversation with Facebook Whistleblower Frances HaugenTwo Million Years in Two Hours: A Conversation with Yuval Noah HarariYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
A few months ago on Your Undivided Attention, we released a Spotlight episode on TikTok's national security risks. Since then, we've learned more about the dangers of the China-owned company: We've seen evidence of TikTok spying on US journalists, and proof of hidden state media accounts to influence the US elections. We’ve seen Congress ban TikTok on most government issued devices, and more than half of US states have done the same, along with dozens of US universities who are banning TikTok access from university wifi networks. More people in Western governments and media are saying that they used to believe that TikTok was an overblown threat. As we've seen more evidence of national security risks play out, there’s even talk of banning TikTok itself in certain countries. But is that the best solution? If we opt for a ban, how do we, as open societies, fight accusations of authoritarianism? On this episode of Your Undivided Attention, we're going to do a deep dive into these questions with Marc Faddoul. He's the co-director of Tracking Exposed, a nonprofit investigating the influence of social media algorithms in our lives. His work has shown how TikTok tweaks its algorithm to maximize partisan engagement in specific national elections, and how it bans international news in countries like Russia that are fighting propaganda battles inside their own borders. In other words, we don't all get the same TikTok because there are different geopolitical interests that might guide which TikTok you see. That is a kind of soft power that TikTok operates on a global scale, and it doesn’t get talked about often enough.We hope this episode leaves you with a lot to think about in terms of what the risks of TikTok are, how it's operating geopolitically, and what we can do about it.RECOMMENDED MEDIATracking Exposed Special Report: TikTok Content Restriction in RussiaHow has the Russian invasion of Ukraine affected the content that TikTok users see in Russia? [Part 1 of Tracking Exposed series]Tracking Exposed Special Report: Content Restrictions on TikTok in Russia Following the Ukrainian WarHow are TikTok’s policy decisions affecting pro-war and anti-war content in Russia? [Part 2 of Tracking Exposed series]Tracking Exposed Special Report: French Elections 2022The visibility of French candidates on TikTok and YouTube search enginesThe Democratic Surround by Fred TurnerA dazzling cultural history that demonstrates how American intellectuals, artists, and designers from the 1930s-1960s imagined new kinds of collective events that were intended to promote a powerful experience of American democracy in actionRECLOMMENDED YUA EPISODESWhen Media Was for You and Me with Fred TurnerAddressing the TikTok ThreatA Fresh Take on Tech in China with Rui Ma and Duncan ClarkYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
It may seem like the rise of artificial intelligence, and increasingly powerful large language models you may have heard of, is moving really fast… and it IS. But what’s coming next is when we enter synthetic relationships with AI that could come to feel just as real and important as our human relationships... And perhaps even more so. In this episode of Your Undivided Attention, Tristan and Aza reach beyond the moment to talk about this powerful new AI, and the new paradigm of humanity and computation we’re about to enter. This is a structural revolution that affects way more than text, art, or even Google search. There are huge benefits to humanity, and we’ll discuss some of those. But we also see that as companies race to develop the best synthetic relationships, we are setting ourselves up for a new generation of harms made exponentially worse by AI’s power to predict, mimic and persuade.It’s obvious we need ways to steward these tools ethically. So Tristan and Aza also share their ideas for creating a framework for AIs that will help humans become MORE humane, not less.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Cybernetics: or, Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine by Norbert WienerA classic and influential work that laid the theoretical foundations for information theoryNew Chatbots Could Change the World. Can You Trust Them?The New York Times addresses misinformation and how Siri, Google Search, online marketing and your child’s homework will never be the sameOut of One, Many: Using Language Models to Simulate Human Samples by Lisa P. Argyle, Ethan C. Busby, Nancy Fulda, Joshua Gubler, Christopher Rytting, David WingateThis paper proposes and explores the possibility that language models can be studied as effective proxies for specific human sub-populations in social science researchEarth Species ProjectEarth Species Project, co-founded by Aza Raskin, is a non-profit dedicated to using artificial intelligence to decode non-human communicationHer (2013)A science-fiction romantic drama film written, directed, and co-produced by Spike JonzeWhat A Chatty Monkey May Tell Us About Learning To TalkNPR explores the fascinating world of gelada monkeys and the way they communicateRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESHow Political Language is Engineered with Drew Westen & Frank LuntzWhat is Humane Technology?Down the Rabbit Hole by Design with Guillaume Chaslot
It’s easy to tell ourselves we’re living in the world we want – one where Darwinian evolution drives competing technology platforms and capitalism pushes nations to maximize GDP regardless of externalities like carbon emissions. It can feel like evolution and competition are all there is.If that’s a complete description of what’s driving the world and our collective destiny, that can feel pretty hopeless. But what if that’s not the whole story of evolution? This is where evolutionary theorist, author, and professor David Sloan Wilson comes in. He has documented where an enlightened game, one of cooperation, rather than competition, is possible. His work shows that humans can and have chosen values like cooperation, altruism and group success – versus individual competition and selfishness – at key moments in our evolution, proving that evolution isn’t just genetic. It’s cultural, and it’s a choice. In a world where our trajectory isn’t tracking in the direction we want, it's time to slow down and ask: is a different kind of conscious evolution possible? On Your Undivided Attention, we’re going to update the Darwinian principles of evolution using a critical scientific lens that can help upgrade our ability to cooperate – ranging from the small community-level, all the way to entire technology companies that can cooperate in ways that allow everyone to succeed. RECOMMENDED MEDIAThis View of Life: Completing the Darwinian Revolution by David Sloan WilsonProsocial: Using Evolutionary Science to Build Productive, Equitable, and Collaborative Groups by David Sloan WilsonAtlas Hugged: The Autobiography of John Galt III by David Sloan WilsonGoverning the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action by Elinor OstromHit Refresh by Satya NadellaWTF? What’s the Future and Why It’s Up to Us by Tim O’ReillyHard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire by James Wallace & Jim Erickson RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES An Alternative to Silicon Valley Unicorns with Mara Zepeda & Kate “Sassy” SassoonA Problem Well-Stated is Half-Solved with Daniel Schmachtenberger Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
Welcome to our first-ever Ask Us Anything episode. Recently we put out a call for questions… and, wow, did you come through! We got more than 100 responses from listeners to this podcast from all over the world. It was really fun going through them all, and really difficult to choose which ones to answer here. But we heard you, and we’ll carry your amazing suggestions and ideas forward with us in 2023.When we created Your Undivided Attention, the goal was to explore the incredible power technology has over our lives, and how we can use it to catalyze a humane future. Three years and a global pandemic later, we’re more committed than ever to helping meet the moment with crucial conversations about humane technology - even as the tech landscape constantly evolves and world events bring more urgency to the need for technology that unites us, invests in democratic values, and enhances our well-being.We’ve learned from our guests alongside all of you. Sixty-one episodes later, the podcast has over 16 million unique downloads! That’s a lot of people who care about the promise of humane technology and are working to construct a more humane version of technology in their lives, their family’s lives, and within their communities and society at large. We’re a movement! Thank you to everyone who submitted questions and comments for us. We loved doing this, and we’re looking forward to doing it again!Correction:When discussing DeepMind’s recent paper, Aza said the premise was four people entering their views and opinions, with AI finding the commonality between all of those viewpoints. It was actually three people entering their views and opinions.RECOMMENDED MEDIA CHT’s Recommended Reading List:Foundations of Humane TechnologyOur free, self-paced online course for professionals shaping tomorrow’s technologyThe Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff Foundational reading on the attention economyAlgorithms of Oppression by Safiya Umoja Noble Seminal work on how algorithms in search engines replicate and reinforce bias online and offlineAmusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman Written in 1985, Postman’s work shockingly predicts our current media environment and its effectsAttention Merchants by Tim WuA history of how advertisers capture our attentionDoughnut Economics by Kate Raworth A compass for how to upgrade our economic models to be more regenerative and distributiveThinking in Systems by Donella MeadowsThis excellent primer shows us how to develop systems thinking skillsWhat Money Can’t Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets by Michael SandelSandel explores how we can prevent market values from reaching into spheres of life where they don’t belongEssay: Disbelieving Atrocities by Arthur KoestlerOriginally published January 9, 1944 in The New York TimesHumane Technology reading listComprehensive for those who want to geek outORGANIZATIONS TO EXPLORE Integrity InstituteIntegrity Institute advances the theory and practice of protecting the social internet, powered by their community of integrity professionalsAll Tech Is Human job boardAll Tech Is Human curates roles focused on reducing the harms of technology, diversifying the tech pipeline, and ensuring that technology is aligned with the public interestDenizenDenizen brings together leaders across disciplines to accelerate systemic changeNew_PublicNew_Public is place for thinkers, builders, designers and technologists to meet and share inspirationPsychology of Technology InstitutePTI is non-profit network of behavioral scientists, technology designers, and decision-makers that protects and improves psychological health for society by advancing our understanding and effective use of transformative technologiesRadicalxChangeRxC is a social movement for next-generation political economiesThe School for Social DesignThe School for Social Design offers three courses on articulating what’s meaningful for different people and how to design for it at smaller and larger scalesTechCongressTechCongress is a technology policy fellowship on Capitol HillRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES An Alternative to Silicon Valley Unicornshttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/54-an-alternative-to-silicon-valley-unicornsA Problem Well-Stated is Half-Solvedhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/a-problem-well-stated-is-half-solvedDigital Democracy is Within Reachhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/23-digital-democracy-is-within-reachYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
When you look at the world, it can feel like we're in a precarious moment. If you’ve listened to past episodes, you know we call this the meta-crisis — an era of overlapping and interconnected crises like climate change, polarization, and the rise of decentralized technologies like synthetic biology. It can feel like we’re on a path to destroy ourselves.That's why we’re talking to Rick Doblin, the founder and executive director of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, or MAPS. They’re a nonprofit focused on educating and researching the benefits of using psychedelic therapy to address PTSD and promote humane ways of relating worldwide.Doblin’s vision is for nothing less than a transformation of society through psychedelic-assisted therapy – not for the drugs themselves, but for their ability to help us react to one another with compassion, appreciate differences, and accept criticism.Given the perma-crisis we face, it’s provocative to think about a tool that, when prescribed and used safely, could help us overcome rivalrous dynamics out in the world and on social media. If we rescue our hijacked brains, we can heal from the constant trauma inflation we get online, and shrink the perception gap that splits us into tribes.Both MAPS and Center for Humane Technology want to understand what helps minds heal and be free. We invite you to keep an open mind about a different kind of humane technology as you listen to this episode. Correction: Doblin attributes a quote to Stan Grof about psychedelics helping your ego be “transparent to the transcendent.” In his book Pathways to Bliss, Joseph Campbell wrote, "When a deity serves as a model for you, your life becomes transparent to the transcendent as long as you realize the inspiring power of that deity. This means living not in the name of worldly success and achievement, but rather in the name of the transcendent, letting the energy manifest through you.” Grof was likely paraphrasing Campbell’s work and applying it to psychedelics. Additional credits:The episode contains an original musical composition by Jeff Sudakin. Used with permission. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)The non-profit founded by Rick Doblin in 1986 focused on developing medical, legal, and cultural contexts for people to benefit from the careful uses of psychedelics and marijuana. MAPS has some open clinical trials; see details on their website. Rick Doblin’s TED talkIn this fascinating dive into the science of psychedelics, Doblin explains how drugs like LSD, psilocybin and MDMA affect your brain - and shows how, when paired with psychotherapy, they could change the way we treat PTSD, depression, substance abuse and more.How to Change Your Mind by Michael PollanPollan writes of his own consciousness-expanding experiments with psychedelic drugs, and makes the case for why shaking up the brain's old habits could be therapeutic for people facing addiction, depression, or death.How to Change Your Mind on NetflixThe docuseries version of Pollan’s bookBreath by James NestorThis popular science book provides a historical, scientific and personal account of breathing, with special focus on the differences between mouth breathing and nasal breathing.Insight timerA free app for sleep, anxiety, and stress RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES You Will Never Breathe the Same Again with James Nestorhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/38-you-will-never-breathe-the-same-againTwo Million Years in Two Hours: A Conversation with Yuval Noah Harari https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/28-two-million-years-in-two-hours-a-conversation-with-yuval-noah-harariYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
When it comes to social media risk, there is reason to hope for consensus. Center for Humane Technology co-founder Tristan Harris recently helped launch a new initiative called the Council for Responsible Social Media (CRSM) in Washington, D.C. It’s a coalition between religious leaders, public health experts, national security leaders, and former political representatives from both sides - people who just care about making our democracy work.During this event, Tristan sat down with Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen, a friend of Center for Humane Technology, to discuss the harm caused to our mental health and global democracy when platforms lack accountability and transparency. The CRSM is bipartisan, and its kickoff serves to boost the solutions Frances and Tristan identify going into 2023.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Council for Responsible Social Media (CRSM)A project of Issue One, CRSM is a cross-partisan group of leaders addressing the negative mental, civic, and public health impacts of social media in America.Twitter Whistleblower Testifies on Security IssuesPeiter “Mudge” Zatko, a former Twitter security executive, testified on privacy and security issues relating to the social media company before the Senate Judiciary Committee.Beyond the ScreenBeyond the Screen is a coalition of technologists, designers, and thinkers fighting against online harms, led by the Facebook whistle-blower Frances Haugen.#OneClickSafer CampaignOur campaign to pressure Facebook to make one immediate change — join us!RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES A Conversation with Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugenhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/42-a-conversation-with-facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugenA Facebook Whistleblower: Sophie Zhanghttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/episode-37-a-facebook-whistleblowerMr. Harris Zooms to Washington https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/episode-35-mr-harris-zooms-to-washingtonWith Great Power Comes… No Responsibility? https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/3-with-great-power-comes-no-responsibilityYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
The weekly American news show 60 Minutes invited Center for Humane Technology co-founder Tristan Harris back recently to discuss political polarization and the anger and incivility that gets elevated on social media as a matter of corporate profit. We're releasing a special episode of Your Undivided Attention this week to dig further into some of the important nuances of the complexity of this problem.CHT’s work was actually introduced to the world by Anderson Cooper on 60 Minutes back in 2017, and we’re honored to have been invited back. In this new interview, we cover the business model of competing for engagement at all costs - the real root of the problem that we’re thrilled to be able to discuss on a far-reaching platform.We also busted the myth that if you’re not on social media, you don’t need to be concerned. Even if you're not on social media, you likely live in a country that will vote based on other people’s collective choices and behaviors. We know that the media we engage with shapes the people who consume it. CORRECTION: Tristan notes that Facebook's Head of Global Policy, Monika Bickert, says in the interview that social media can't be the root of America's anger because it's people over the age of 60 who are most polarized. She actually said that people over the age of 65 are most polarized.RECOMMENDED MEDIA60 Minutes: “Social Media and Political Polarization in America”https://humanetech.com/60minutesAmusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postmanhttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/297276/amusing-ourselves-to-death-by-neil-postman/Neil Postman’s groundbreaking book about the damaging effects of television on our politics and public discourse has been hailed as a twenty-first-century book published in the twentieth century.60 Minutes: “Brain Hacking”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awAMTQZmvPERECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Elon, Twitter, and the Gladiator Arenahttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/elon-twitter-and-the-gladiator-arenaAddressing the TikTok Threathttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/bonus-addressing-the-tiktok-threatWhat is Civil War In The Digital Age? With Barbara F Walterhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/50-what-is-civil-war-in-the-digital-age
Since it’s looking more and more like Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, will probably soon have ownership of Twitter, we wanted to do a special episode about what this could mean for Twitter users and our global digital democracy as a whole.Twitter is a very complicated place. It is routinely blocked by governments who fear its power to organize citizen protests around the world. It’s also where outrage, fear and violence get amplified by design, warping users’ views of each other and our common, connected humanity.We’re at a fork in the road, and we know enough about humane design principles to do this better. So we thought we would do a little thought experiment: What if we applied everything we know about humane technology to Twitter, starting tomorrow? What would happen?This is the second part in a two-part conversation about Twitter that we’ve had on Your Undivided Attention about Elon Musk’s bid for Twitter and what it could mean in the context of the need to go in a more humane direction.RECOMMENDED MEDIA On Liberty by John Stuart MillPublished in 1859, this philosophical essay applies Mill's ethical system of utilitarianism to society and stateElon Musk Only Has “Yes” Men by Jonathan L. FischerReporting from Slate on the subject Foundations of Humane TechnologyThe Center for Humane Technology's free online course for professionals shaping tomorrow's technologyRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES A Bigger Picture on Elon and Twitterhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/bigger-picture-elon-twitterTranscending the Internet Hate Game with Dylan Marronhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/52-transcending-the-internet-hate-gameFighting With Mirages of Each Other with Adam Mastroiannihttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/56-fighting-with-mirages-of-each-otherYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
We often talk about the need to protect American democracy. But perhaps those of us in the United States don't currently live in a democracy.As research shows, there's pretty much no correlation between the percentage of the population that supports a policy and its likelihood of being enacted. The strongest determinant of whether a policy gets enacted is how much money is behind it.So, how might we not just protect, but better yet revive our democracy? How might we revive the relationship between the will of the people and the actions of our government?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're doing something special. As we near the election, and representation is on our minds, we're airing a talk by Harvard Law professor and Creative Commons co-founder Larry Lessig. It's a 2019 talk he gave at the Politics and Prose bookstore in Washington, DC about his book, They Don't Represent Us.The book title has two meanings: first, they — as in our elected representatives — don't represent us. And second, we — as in the people — don't represent ourselves. And this is where social media comes in: we don't represent ourselves because the more we use social media, the more we see extreme versions of the other side, and the more extreme, outraged, and polarized we ourselves become.Last note: Lessig's talk is highly visual. We edited it lightly for clarity, and jump in periodically to narrate things you can’t see. But if you prefer to watch his talk, you can find the link below in Recommended Media. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Video: They Don't Represent UsThe 2019 talk Larry Lessig gave at Politics and Prose in Washington, DC about his book of the same nameBook: They Don't Represent UsLarry Lessig’s 2019 book that elaborates the ways in which democratic representation is in peril, and proposes a number of solutions to revive our democracy -- from ranked-choice voting to non-partisan open primariesTesting Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens Princeton's Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page study measuring the correlation between the preferences of different groups and the decisions of our government RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESDigital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey Tanghttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/23-digital-democracy-is-within-reachHow Political Language Is Engineered with Drew Westen and Frank Luntzhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/53-how-political-language-is-engineeredYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
The next frontier of the internet is the metaverse. That's why Mark Zuckerberg changed the name of his company from Facebook to Meta, and just sold $10 billion in corporate bonds to raise money for metaverse-related projects.How might we learn from our experience with social media, and anticipate the harms of the metaverse before they arise? What would it look like to design a humane metaverse — that respects our attention, improves our well-being, and strengthens our democracy?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we talk with two pioneers who are thinking critically about the development of the metaverse. Professor Jeremy Bailenson is the Founding director of Stanford’s Virtual Human Interaction Lab, where he studies how virtual experiences lead to changes in perceptions of self and others. Dr. Courtney Cogburn is an Associate Professor at Columbia's School of Social Work, where she examines associations between racism and stress-related disease. Jeremy and Courtney collaborated on 1000 Cut Journey, a virtual reality experience about systemic racism.CORRECTIONS: In the episode, Courtney says that the average US adult consumes 9 hours of media per day, but the actual number in 2022 is closer to 13 hours.Finally, Aza mentions the "pockets of 4.6 billion people" — implying that there are 4.6 billion smartphone users. The global number of social media users is 4.7 billion, and the number of smartphone users is actually 6.6 billion.RECOMMENDED MEDIA: Experience on Demand: What Virtual Reality Is, How It Works, and What It Can Dohttps://www.amazon.com/Experience-Demand-Virtual-Reality-Works/dp/0393253694Jeremy Bailenson's 2018 book exploring how virtual reality can be harnessed to improve our everyday livesExperiencing Racism in VRhttps://www.ted.com/talks/courtney_cogburn_experiencing_racism_in_vr_courtney_d_cogburn_phd_tedxrvaCourtney Cogburn's 2017 TEDx talk about how using virtual reality to help people experience the complexities of racismDo Artifacts Have Politics?https://faculty.cc.gatech.edu/~beki/cs4001/Winner.pdf Technology philosopher Langdon Winner’s seminal 1980 article, in which he writes, "by far the greatest latitude of choice exists the very first time a particular instrument, system, or technique is introduced."RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES: Do You Want To Become A Vampire? with LA Paulhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/39-do-you-want-to-become-a-vampirePardon the Interruptions with Gloria Markhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/7-pardon-the-interruptionsBonus - What Is Humane Technology?https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/bonus-what-is-humane-technologyYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
Have you ever lost a friend to misperception? Have you lost a friend or a family member to the idea that your views got so different, that it was time to end the relationship — perhaps by unfriending each other on Facebook?As it turns out, we often think our ideological differences are far greater than they actually are. Which means: we’re losing relationships and getting mired in polarization based on warped visions of each other. This week on Your Undivided Attention, we're talking with Adam Mastroianni, a postdoctoral research scholar at Columbia Business School who studies how we perceive and misperceive our social worlds. Together with Adam, we're going to explore how accurate — and inaccurate — our views of each other are. As you listen to our conversation, keep in mind that relationship you might have lost to misperception, and that you might be able to revive as a result of what you hear.CORRECTIONS: In the episode, Adam says in 1978, 85% of people said they'd vote for a Black president, but the actual percentage is 80.4%. Tristan says that Republicans estimate that more than a third of Democrats are LGBTQ, but the actual percentage is 32%. Finally, Tristan refers to Anil Seth's notion of cognitive impenetrability, but that term was actually coined by the Canadian cognitive scientist and philosopher Zenon W. Pylyshyn.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Widespread Misperceptions of Long-term Attitude Changehttps://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2107260119 Adam Mastroianni's research paper showing how stereotypes of the past lead people to misperceive attitude change, and how these misperceptions can lend legitimacy to policies that people may not actually preferExperimental Historyhttps://experimentalhistory.substack.com/ Adam's blog, where he shares original data and thinks through ideasAmericans experience a false social reality by underestimating popular climate policy support by nearly halfhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32412-yAcademic study showing that Americans are living in what researchers called a “false social reality” with respect to misperceptions about climate viewsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Mind the (Perception) Gap with Dan Vallonehttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/33-mind-the-perception-gapThe Courage to Connect. Guests: Ciaran O’Connor and John Wood, Jr.https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/30-the-courage-to-connectTranscending the Internet Hate Game with Dylan Marronhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/52-transcending-the-internet-hate-game
Imagine it's the Cold War. Imagine that the Soviet Union puts itself in a position to influence the television programming of the entire Western world — more than a billion viewers. While this might sound like science fiction, it’s representative of the world we're living in, with TikTok being influenced by the Chinese Communist Party.TikTok, the flagship app of the Chinese company Bytedance, recently surpassed Google and Facebook as the most popular site on the internet in 2021, and is expected to reach more than 1.8 billion users by the end of 2022. The Chinese government doesn't control TikTok, but has influence over it. What are the implications of this influence, given that China is the main geopolitical rival of the United States?This week on Your Undivided Attention, we bring you a bonus episode about TikTok. Co-hosts Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin explore the nature of the TikTok threat, and how we might address it.RECOMMENDED MEDIA Pew Research Center's "Teens, Social Media and Technology 2022"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022/Pew's recent study on how TikTok has established itself as one of the top online platforms for U.S. teensAxios' "Washington turns up the heat on TikTok"https://www.axios.com/2022/07/07/congress-tiktok-china-privacy-data?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=emailArticle on recent Congressional responses to the threat of TikTokFelix Krause on TikTok's keystroke trackinghttps://twitter.com/KrauseFx/status/1560372509639311366A revelation that TikTok has code to observe keypad input and all tapsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESA Fresh Take on Tech in China with Rui Ma and Duncan Clarkhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/44-a-fresh-take-on-tech-in-chinaA Conversation with Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugenhttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/42-a-conversation-with-facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugenFrom Russia with Likes (Part 1). Guest: Renée DiRestahttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/5-from-russia-with-likes-part-1From Russia with Likes (Part 2). Guest: Renée DiRestahttps://www.humanetech.com/podcast/6-from-russia-with-likes-part-2 Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_
At Center for Humane Technology, we often talk about multipolar traps — which arise when individuals have an incentive to act in ways that are beneficial to them in the short term, but detrimental to the group in the long term. Think of social media companies that compete for our attention, so that when TikTok introduces an even-more addictive feature, Facebook and Twitter have to mimic it in order to keep up, sending us all on a race to the bottom of our brainstems.Intervening at the level of multipolar traps has extraordinary leverage. One such intervention is the Long Term Stock Exchange — a U.S. national securities exchange serving companies and investors who share a long-term vision. Instead of asking public companies to pollute less or be less addictive while holding them accountable to short-term shareholder value, the Long-Term Stock Exchange creates a new playing field, which incentivizes the creation of long-term stakeholder value.This week on Your Undivided Attention, we’re airing an episode of a podcast called ZigZag — a fellow member of the TED Audio Collective. In an exploration of how technology companies might transcend multipolar traps, we're sharing with you ZigZag’s conversation with Long Term Stock Exchange founder Eric Ries.CORRECTION: In the episode, we say that TikTok has outcompeted Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. In fact, TikTok has outcompeted Facebook, but not yet YouTube or Instagram — TikTok has 1 billion monthly users, while YouTube has 2.6 billion and Instagram has 2 billion. However, we can say that TikTok is on a path toward outcompeting YouTube and Instagram.RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESAn Alternative to Silicon Valley Unicorns with Mara Zepeda & Kate “Sassy” Sassoon: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/54-an-alternative-to-silicon-valley-unicornsA Problem Well-Stated Is Half-Solved with Daniel Schmachtenberger: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/a-problem-well-stated-is-half-solvedHere’s Our Plan And We Don’t Know with Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin, and Stephanie Lepp: https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/46-heres-our-plan-and-we-dont-know
I hope it isn't lost on people that it is a critical organ for exchanging ideas, informing dissidents in Iran and other authoritarian controlled countries. That is of value to the Mullahs, Putin, etc.
we're supposed to be a democratic republic, but whatever...we're not that either anymore.
You are so disconnected from reality, it's hard to listen this patronizing tone :/
I'm surprised by Frank Luntz feeling he isn't listened to. Every time it seems when there's been of some thorny issue, a messaging battle in the last couple of decades, he's been there. And, understanding the right groups to win over. I hope the messaging debacle, though I understand it, has taught or chastened the Dems enough to employ the strategies of gurus like Drew Weston and Luntz!!
I hate to crush dreams to commenters, but neither Tristan Harris or Aza Raskin read comments from Castbox!!!
I just started listening to this podcast and it seems really interesting! I just have one comment about this one on gambling addiction, since I kept waiting for them to talk about the root of gambling or any other kind of addiction... this is central to solve this problem and any psychologist working in the area knows about this, so I was somewhat surprised there was no mention of this. Why do people start gambling in the first place (or other behaviours that end up in addiction)? And I am not talking about playing slots once a year on your bday or for a bachelor's party... Once people are addicted, it is extremely difficult to stop it (once an addict, always and addict!), but prevention of it is much easier to manage and implement. There are some genetic/hereditary propensities for addiction given the right conditions, but this is not always predictive. The clearer predictive of someone becoming an addict is linked to social and emotional relationships quality in one's life. And my guess is that social media is breaking this aspect of the social human at its root. People sometimes are together in a cafe, yet they are looking at their phones instead of talking to each other... this would be a really interesting 3rd part of this discussion with a psychologist studying addiction ;)
I think you dropped the ball on this one guys. I couldn't think of one thing McCaster said that China does, or Russia, that we do not do abroad ourselves, or here at home in America. Just because we're America, doesn't make our intent for nefarious things like media control in our own country and others, any better than China's.
This is Wert's lost tape from Over the Garden Wall.
amazing episode, so insightful. This kind of conversation should be had on national news
I am extremely impressed with this podcast. It's presentation was cogent and very well informed. Thank you! What's the plan for having government adopt Blockchain as a means to transparency?
what did you think of this?
She habitually drags out the final word or syllable of each clause, as though she thinks it accentuates her point. Don't inflect EVERYTHING.
This podcast changed my life. Ive felt 'wrong' about social media for some time and since disconnecting have found myself justifying 'why not' to my family and friends, and finding my 'why so?' to be wholly ineffective. Even to myself, it was hard yo educate and explain internally. I can now explain myself more clearly. I wont change my family's mind but i am now more informed (on both sides) and can more considered decisions. Ive shared this podcast with some colleagues and friends who are more open minded and already i see a change, and thats what matters. Its about awareness. I dont want to proselytise. Thank you for the passion, accessibility and transparency of a podcast like this. I truly hope we will look back on podcasts like this decades from now and see them as prophetic. I hope... The alternative doesn't bare thinking about.
The snaps get old.
@18:32: "True for them" is such an intellectually broken phrase that it contributes to the very problem being discussed. The violence of Jan. 6th was fueled by lies conveyed through a misappropriation of English. Muddled language has a reciprocal relationship with muddled thinking. How can we have accountability when words no longer have meaning? This is Trump's own defense, and that of Sidney Powell, and Rudy Giuliani, and Fox, and every depraved Reupblican attempting to hide their bigotry and malice in a fog of nonsense. Stop contributing to the problem. Start using words as if they have actual meanings.
Another well intentioned person holding forth about "truth" because it seems right to her, yet many of her strung-together conjectures are factually wrong. It reminds me of anti-scientific Socratic precepts. So little of what she said is empirically falsifiable, and many of her little factoids are in fact false. It undermines her credibility, and therefore her efficacy in promoting what might be useful approaches.
@8:58: A great point I'm very glad to hear someone make regarding the over-use of military terminology and metaphors.
"Clock rate" is an ambiguous, incomplete term Aza seems compelled to say. Use a better term. Neologisms don't make you sound smart, just pseudo-intellectual.
I could do without Aza's breathy, overly empathic, constant "Yeah."
This format for introducing the guest seems awkward and contrived... and a bit effusive or inflated. Also, Aza should pull the mic out of his mouth.