Zero Click Marketing

Josh Ho, founder and CEO of ReferralRock, and I chit chat about marketing challenges and opportunities as of late. My fave part of this episode is when Josh explains how ReferralRock turns its existing customer conversations into an always-on source of audience research — using real customer language and anecdotes to shape strategy. (This happens about 15 minutes in!)We also get into why marketers need both audience data and anecdotes, what AI changes about qualitative research, and how the smallest, weirdest details can sometimes become the most memorable parts of a brand.Timestamps00:00 — How Josh learned marketing through SEO and inbound05:23 — How ReferralRock gets customers today07:55 — When attribution is broken, what do you measure instead?13:34 — AI search, prompts, and understanding buyer intent15:10 — Turning customer calls into an audience research engine20:47 — Creating content from what customers actually ask about27:47 — Why marketers need “audiences + anecdotes”30:02 — Blue spoons, memorable details, and creating word of mouth35:29 — What does a “blue spoon” look like in B2B SaaS?Connect with Josh Ho: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuajho/Check out Referral Rock: https://referralrock.com Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.coConnect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | ThreadsThis episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Geniuswww.shareyourgenius.com 

Wil Reynolds joins me to chop it up over what AI is changing — and what it’s revealing — about marketing, expertise, and trust. We talk about using AI without losing your voice, why accountability may matter more than “taste,” and how AI search is making it harder for brands to simply optimize their way into credibility. Wil also explains why he’d rather measure human trust than algorithmic visibility, how an intern exposed gaps in his own 25+ years of SEO experience, and why this moment in AI has rekindled the way he wants to build Seer Interactive.Chapters00:00 — Human trust vs. algorithmic proxies03:14 — Spotting AI slop on LinkedIn06:23 — The upside of competition in AI08:15 — AI, creativity, and owning your work25:49 — Taste vs. accountability in an AI world27:58 — AI search is forcing brands to bring receipts34:21 — Why SEO and AI visibility aren’t the same38:42 — Measuring human trust instead of algorithmic traffic46:29 — Hiring for a world that’s changing againConnect with Wil Reynolds: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilreynolds/ Check out Seer Interactive: https://www.seerinteractive.com/ Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.coConnect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | ThreadsThis episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Geniuswww.shareyourgenius.com

Wistia CEO Chris Savage joins me to talk about how marketing has evolved in recent years, especially now as attribution keeps getting harder. We also dig into building sustainable content programs, finding opportunities in saturated channels, making the case for creative risks, and why some of the ideas that are hardest to green-light are actually the most valuable.Timestamps00:00 — Why the hardest ideas end up being the most valuable01:31 — Wistia’s sustainable approach building its podcast06:38 — Let the audience choose the format10:19 — Marketing in a zero-click world14:02 — Massive opportunities in untrackable marketing16:36 — How to pitch bold ideas to leadership20:42 — Where Chris would invest if he were starting from scratch28:19 — Brand search as a leading marketing indicator31:05 — How marketers can manage up more effectivelyConnect with Chris Savage: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsavage/ Check out Talking Too Loud: https://wistia.com/series/talking-too-loud Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.coConnect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | ThreadsThis episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Geniuswww.shareyourgenius.com 

As AI makes it easier to produce more content, podcasting offers something increasingly valuable: unmistakable evidence of a real person behind those ideas. Erica Bonser, co-founder of Fan Club, joins me to talk about what success should actually look like for a new show, and how marketers can turn a podcast into a sustainable engine — without expecting immediate business results.Chapters00:00 — Why podcasting feels distinctly human in the AI era00:41 — What fitness brands teach us about identity and marketing09:53 — Starting a podcast makes you a better communicator11:34 — What should a podcast actually accomplish?15:45 — Defining success and overcoming the “podcast graveyard”19:10 — Why Erica isn’t worried about business outcomes yet22:12 — The reality of sustaining a podcast23:47 — Erica’s podcasting cheat sheet for 2026Connect with Erica Bonser: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-bonser/ Check out Fan Club Brands: https://fanclubbrands.co/ Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.coConnect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | ThreadsThis episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Geniuswww.shareyourgenius.com

It’s never been easier to create content — which means simply making content isn’t much of an advantage anymore. Today, I talk about what AI changes about the creator economy, why credibility is becoming more valuable as content gets cheaper, and how marketers should evaluate creator partnerships beyond clicks and impressions. Chapters00:00 — It has never been easier to create mediocre content00:45 — How the creator economy has grown up02:14 — As content gets cheaper, credibility gets more valuable03:15 — Why creator marketing *is* Zero Click Marketing04:08 — The prerequisite: authority with the right audience05:01 — #1: Message transfer06:24 — #2: Audience saturation08:02 — #3: Asset value10:01 — What the creator economy rewards nowLearn more: zeroclickmarketing.coConnect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | ThreadsThis episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Geniuswww.shareyourgenius.com