Claim Ownershipdefragmenting
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promoting biblical integrity and thoughtful Christianity
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Michael Graham is the program director for The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics and coauthor of The Great Dechurching: Who’s Leaving, Why Are They Going, and What Will it Take to Bring Them Back? In this episode, he joins Dr. Keith Plummer and co-host Pastor Ben Best to talk about the 40 million Americans who have left the church in the last 25 years. They discuss the cultural drivers behind this exodus, the various types of dechurched individuals, and their reasons for leaving. Michael also shares insights from their study on how churches and individual believers can re-engage those who have left.
Faithfully following Jesus in a digital and media-saturated society involves more than not using our devices for explicitly immoral purposes. Forming biblical wisdom requires being aware of how our technological practices might be shaping us in ways contrary to that of Christ. Listen to Dr. Felicia Wu Song, author of Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence and Place in the Digital Age, discuss these important matters with Dr. Keith Plummer.
Episode Notes
Cairn University’s Professor of New Testament, Dr. Kevin McFadden is the author of Hidden with Christ in God: A Theology of Colossians and Philemon, in Crossway’s New Testament Theology series. He joined Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss Christ as our hidden hope, his preeminence and sufficiency, Christians’ union with Jesus in death and resurrection, and its profound significance to changed living. They also talk about slavery, which Paul addresses in both letters, and if it is accurate to say, as many do, that the Bible endorses the institution.
Episode Notes
“To live with OCD is to be vulnerable to the machinations of your own mind...It is an Affliction that lives in me as a powerful, painful intimidation.” So writes John Andrew Bryant in his award-winning book A Quiet Mind to Suffer With: Mental Illness, Trauma, and the Death of Christ, a book in which he recounts how a mental breakdown, a stay in a psychiatric ward, and being diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder led to a life-changing understanding of who Jesus is and what following him is and isn’t about. He and Dr. Keith Plummer talk about his ongoing journey marked by affliction, mercy, and hope. They also discuss how the church can better serve those with mental illness.
Episode Notes
Proponents of physician-assisted death present it as an act of compassion that recognizes the dignity of those suffering from terminal diseases and other illnesses. Dr. Ewan Goligher, assistant professor of medicine at the University of Toronto, is a critical care physician who is regularly involved with patients and their families facing end-of-life decisions. In his book How Should We Then Die? A Christian Response to Physician Assisted Death, Dr. Goligher argues that the practice of physician-assisted death actually devalues humans and is an act of secular faith that presumes to know what it’s like to be dead. In this episode, he and Dr. Keith Plummer discuss his reasons for those claims and why the Christian story provides transcendent meaning that enables us to endure suffering with confident hope.
Episode Notes
Over his almost two decades as host of the UK-based radio program and podcast Unbelievable?, Justin Brierly facilitated countless thoughtful conversations about faith and unbelief between some of the world’s foremost atheists and Christian apologists. In his book The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God and podcast by the same name, Justin explores what led to the popularity of the so-called New Atheists in the early 2000s as well as the internal conflicts that led to the movement’s implosion. He joined Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss that and why secular thinkers such as Jordan Peterson, Peter Boghosian, Louise Perry, and Tom Holland, to name a few, are finding it increasingly difficult to ignore the Christian story’s relevance to questions of science, history, culture, and our search for meaning.
Episode Notes
The Christian faith provides intellectually and existentially satisfying answers to many of life’s questions. But it likewise challenges us to consider whether the things we’re most curious about are really important and liberates us to ask new and better questions. Dr. Matthew Lee Anderson is convinced that the call to follow Jesus is a call to a life of questioning (to be distinguished from doubting). He writes in his book Called into Questions: Cultivating the Love of Learning within the Life of Faith: “We can only question well when we believe there are answers—but we will only live our way into the answers if we orient our questions toward the good and the true as Jesus reveals them.” In this episode, Dr. Anderson and Dr. Keith Plummer talk about the vital role a stance of questioning should play in the individual and corporate life of discipleship.
Episode Notes
Dr. Gary Schnittjer, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament at Cairn University, is co-editor of the Scripture Connections series to which he is also a contributing author. His book, Old Testament Narrative Books: The Israel Story, explores the histories of the Hebrew kingdoms—their rise, fall, exile, and restoration—and shows their connections to the ancient near eastern world, the rest of the Bible, the gospel, and our lives. In this episode of defragmenting, Dr. Schnittjer and Dr. Keith Plummer discuss a number of themes from the book including how biblical narratives work and what to look for when reading them. Old Testament narratives are far more than historical records. They’re divinely inspired literary works intended to shape the lives of God’s people.
Episode Notes
The question “Am I being formed?” is never a valid one for the Christian. Rather, we must continually ask ourselves “By what am I being formed and how?” In his book Digital Liturgies: Rediscovering Christian Wisdom in an Online Age, Samuel D. James claims “Rather than being a neutral tool, the internet (particularly the social internet) is an epistemological environment—a spiritual and intellectual habitat—that creates in its members particular ways of thinking, feeling, and believing.” James believes Christians have been largely unaware of the formative powers of regular life online. In this episode, he and Dr. Keith Plummer talk about why it’s important for followers of Jesus to realize how the habits and practices of the digital world obscure wisdom (which James defines as conformity to the objective reality of God’s creation) and how we can resist.
Episode Notes
Our world is becoming increasingly polarized and we're prone to division before unity in any number of arenas. Technology fractures our sense of embodiment and the current culture wars see Christians parting ways over theology, politics, history, race, social justice. This division isn't only external...rather there is an ongoing pressure to disassociate the mind from the body - divorcing how we think from how we live. Even within the church, the tendency to know and understand the Bible as separate stories and rules of living rather than a cohesive narrative of God's redemptive plan leaves many believers knowing the "what" of their faith without the "why." In this episode, hosts Dr. Keith Plummer and Ben Best discuss the name "defragmenting," the purpose behind the conversations and interviews that excite them, and the unique and timely intersection of biblical integrity and thoughtful Christianity.
Episode Notes
Matthew T. Martens is the author of Reforming Criminal Justice: A Christian Proposal, a book in which he hopes “to demonstrate from Scripture that justice is, most fundamentally, an issue of love.” “Get love right,” he says, “and you will get justice right. But you will never set the justice system straight without a proper understanding of love.” Bringing together his almost thirty years of practicing trial law and his theological training, Matt describes and explains the biblical foundations of criminal justice and assesses the history and current practices of the American criminal justice system in light of them. During a visit to Cairn’s campus, he sat down with Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss these important matters.
Episode Notes
Christian colleges and universities committed to biblical authority endeavor to help students see the connection between their faith and the academic subjects they’re studying. This is sometimes hindered by the fact that some professors have been trained in settings where the implications of Christian doctrine for their areas of specialization were either ignored or significantly minimized. In an effort to help teachers for whom that was the case, Dr. Jacob Shatzer, Associate Professor of Theological Studies and Associate Provost and Dean of Instruction at Union University, wrote Faithful Learning: A Vision for Theologically Integrated Education, a book whose aim he says is “to equip faculty to be key instruments in faithfully transforming students in all disciplines.” Dr. Shatzer joined Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss the book. We believe this is a valuable conversation for all Christians who consider the cultivation of the intellect a necessary component of discipleship.
Episode Notes
Artificial intelligence and deconstruction are topics receiving a lot of attention in a variety of Christian circles but rarely in the same place. Dr. Michael J. Svigel, department chair and professor of theology at Dallas Theological Seminary, creatively brings the two together in his latest novella, The AItheist. He joined Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss this book about an apparently sentient computer system upon which much of the world depends that becomes obsessed with the idea that the Christian faith is true. Its obsession with religious matters leads its creator to call on a former seminary professor who renounced his faith, to consult with the AI in hopes of dissuading it of its conclusion. The result is a series of thought-provoking and moving exchanges about the nature of faith, unbelief, and being human.
Episode Notes
As evidenced by the multitude of tributes offered following his death, the pastoral ministry, speaking, writing, and example of the late Dr. Timothy Keller helped countless people better know, love, and obey Jesus. Even those who didn’t share his faith, have offered sincere expressions of gratitude and admiration for his life. In this episode, Collin Hansen, vice president of content and editor for The Gospel Coalition and executive director of The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics, joined Dr. Keith Plummer to talk about his book, Timothy Keller: His Spiritual and Intellectual Formation. They discuss its genesis and what we can learn from the people and experiences that shaped Tim Keller’s life and ministry. Collin explains the vision of The Keller Center and shares how knowing and working with Tim has affected his following Christ.
Many believe higher education is facing an existential crisis. While nonprofit and for-profit schools are battling issues of affordability, enrollment, and latent COVID realities, the need for Christ-centered, academically rigorous, and biblically faithful institutions of higher education remains.
In this episode, Dr. Todd J. Williams, president of Cairn University, and Dr. Allen Guelzo, American historian and senior research scholar in the Council of the Humanities and director of the Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship in the James Madison Program at Princeton University, continue their conversation on the history and future trajectory of Christian higher education; the genesis of their love of history, civics, and deep thinking; and the lasting value of biblical worldview formation in the life of the student.
Many believe higher education is facing an existential crisis. While nonprofit and for-profit schools are battling issues of affordability, enrollment, and latent COVID realities, the need for Christ-centered, academically rigorous, and biblically faithful institutions of higher education remains.
In this episode, Dr. Todd J. Williams, president of Cairn University, and Dr. Allen Guelzo, American historian and senior research scholar in the Council of the Humanities and director of the Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship in the James Madison Program at Princeton University, discuss the history and future trajectory of Christian higher education; the genesis of their love of history, civics, and deep thinking; and the lasting value of biblical worldview formation in the life of the student.
The Edmiston Center focuses on Christian endurance in the midst of competing cultural narratives. Mrs. K.A. Ellis, its director, joined Dr. Keith Plummer to talk about how she came to Christ and the people and things God used to form her heart for Christians experiencing persecution around the world. What different forms does persecution take, and despite these differences, what commonalities underlie them? What can Christians in the West learn from how Christians around the world and across time have persevered in the face of severe opposition? How can American Christians conquer cultural anxiety? Karen answers these questions as well as whether American Christians are being persecuted. She and Dr. Plummer also discuss what led her to “jump ship” from Twitter.
When Christians think about sharing the gospel, many of us tend to think primarily in terms of making a presentation. Dr. Randy Newman, the senior fellow for evangelism and apologetics at the C. S. Lewis Institute, is convinced that we need to think much more about how to engage people in conversations, and for years, he’s been teaching that asking questions is an effective way to accomplish exactly that. Dr. Newman is the author of Questioning Evangelism: Engaging People’s Hearts the Way Jesus Did, which recently released its third edition. He joined Dr. Keith Plummer to talk about it. They discuss why asking questions and listening well are so important, some of the top questions non-Christians ask about Christians, why the new edition includes a new chapter on science and Christianity, and more. If you’d like to grow more confident about talking to people about the good news of Jesus Christ, we think you’ll find this conversation encouraging and helpful.
We are most vulnerable to drifting from the core teachings of the Christian faith when we find them boring, irrelevant, or embarrassing. Dr. Trevin Wax wrote his book The Thrill of Orthodoxy: Rediscovering the Adventure of Christian Faith to counteract the familiarity with Christian teaching that he says is “the enemy of wonder.”
He joins Dr. Keith Plummer to discuss a wide array of topics including the subtle yet often imperceptible ways that we drift from the gospel; how ancient summaries of scriptural teaching like the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds serve as valuable maps and grammars; why doctrinal details matter; and how Christian orthodoxy, contrary to its detractors, is actually broader, richer, and more satisfying than its heretical contenders.
Episode Notes
Chris Martin, author of The Wolf in Their Pockets: 13 Ways the Social Internet Threatens the People You Lead, returns to the podcast to talk with Dr. Keith Plummer about why Christian leaders need to understand how our relationship with social media changes the ways we think, feel, and believe. Chris explains why he calls social media “the most pervasive discipleship force in the world right now;” details the wrong ways we approach social media; and suggests how pastors, ministry leaders, parents, and teachers can foster cultures that better enable believers to resist the seductive snares of online life. Even if you’re not on social media, you’re affected by it somehow, so there’s something for everyone to take away from this conversation.
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