fiction/non/fiction

Linguist, writer, and professor Anne Curzan joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss how language is constantly changing—and how that’s okay. Curzan talks about how, in her work as an English language historian, she’s learned that people have always been critical of usage changes; Ben Franklin, for instance, didn’t care for colonize as a verb. But, Curzan explains, as much as “grammandos” bemoan the evolution of language, it can’t be stopped—singular “they,” “funnest,” and “very unique” are here to stay. Curzan reads from her book, Says Who? A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who Cares About Language. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Anne Curzan Says Who? A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who Cares About Words “‘They’ has been a singular pronoun for centuries. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s wrong.” | October 21, 2021 | The Washington Post Others: Grammando Declaration of Independence Dreyer’s English: And Utterly Correct Guide to Clarity and Style by Benjamin Dreyer The Elements of Style by William Strunk and E.B. White Fiction/Non/Fiction Season: One Episode, 12: “C. Riley Snorton and T Fleischmann Talk Gender, Freedom, and Transitivity” Antonin Scalia  Will Shortz Maxine Hong Kingston The American Heritage Dictionary Urban Dictionary Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nonfiction writer Jeff Sharlet joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss how mainstream media outlets sanitize Donald Trump’s rhetoric in their reporting rather than straightforwardly describing his words and behavior, an approach recently dubbed “sanewashing” by The New Republic’s Parker Molloy. Sharlet analyzes the term’s usefulness and also its limitations; talks about the need to describe fascism using the word itself; and reflects on who is now at the center of political discourse and who is at the fringe. He also considers whether popular new media influencers like the MeidasTouch Network and YouTuber Brian Tyler Cohen are really filling the need to describe Trump as he is. He reads from his book, The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Jeff Sharlet The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War This Brilliant Darkness: A Book of Strangers Sweet Heaven When I Die C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power Others: "This genius website captures Trump’s weirdest debate quotes," by Grace Snelling | Fast Company Lenny Bruce The White Album by Joan Didion The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert O. Paxton Rick Perlstein Brian Tyler Cohen MeidasTouch Network Jeffrey Ruoff Susan Faludi Lane Kirkland Dietrich Bonhoeffer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the housing crisis worsens and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris makes lowering housing prices a key part of her agenda, nonfiction writer Lola Milholland joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her experience with communal living. With traditional single-family homes economically out of reach for many Americans, Milholland talks about the social and financial benefits of living with others, including shared cooking and meals. She cautions that living with roommates will not solve the housing crisis and talks about the need for widespread and systemic change. She reads from her book, Group Living and Other Recipes. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Lola Milholland Group Living and Other Recipes Umi Organic Living With Roommates Is Sorely Underrated |TIME Can a $9 Lunch Cure Loneliness? | Oprah Daily Others: Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 33: “Brandy Jensen on the Mainstreaming of Polyamory” Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 29: “Jen Silverman on Generational Divides in American Politics” Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 52: “Myriam J.A. Chancy on Haitian American Communities” Joint Center for Housing Studies at Harvard  Joint Center for Housing Studies at Harvard: “Home Prices Far Outpace Incomes” The Gift: How the Creative Spirit Transforms the World by Lewis Hyde Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Following Donald Trump and J.D. Vance’s racist smears against Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, author Myriam J.A. Chancy joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about Haitian history and independence; imperialism in Haiti; immigration to and from Haiti; the positive and negative impacts social media has on Haitian communities; and how the current discourse obscures both Haitian past and present. Chancy reflects on the importance of translating Haitian literature into English, recommends the work of several other writers, and discusses the Expo of ’49, which brought people from around the world to Haiti. She reads a related scene from Village Weavers.  To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Myriam J.A. Chancy  Village Weavers  What Storm, What Thunder  Spirit of Haiti Harvesting Haiti Others: Cléanthe Desgraves Valcin  Yanick Lahens Marie-Célie Agnant Valérie Bah Lyonel Trouillot Gary Victor     Mackenzy Orcel  Kettly Mars    “'It just exploded': Springfield woman claims she never meant to spark false rumors about Haitians” by Alicia Victoria Lozano | NBC News “Opinion | Trump Knows What He’s Doing in Springfield. So Does Vance.” by Jamelle Bouie| The New York Times “Marianne Williamson Defends Donald Trump’s Bizarre Haitian Pet-Eating Conspiracy” by Liam Archacki| Daily Beast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As Vice President Kamala Harris's historic campaign for the presidency enters its final weeks, writer Ellen Emerson White joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her prescient 1984 novel The President's Daughter, which imagines the first woman president’s campaign and early days in the White House from the point of view of her teenage daughter. White reminisces about beginning the YA book when she was still a teenager herself and notes the uncanny similarities between a fictional presidential debate that appears in the book and the recent Trump-Harris showdown. White reflects on the qualities her character Katharine Powers shares with Kamala White—notably, a “likable, elegant swagger”—as well as how Powers’s cool bearing contrasts with Harris’s reputation for warmth. She talks about hitting pause on her current writing project following Harris’s entrance into the race, and reads from The President’s Daughter. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Ellen Emerson White “The President’s Daughter” series A Season of Daring Greatly Webster: Tale of an Outlaw “The Echo Company” series Others: Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7 Episode 50: “Thomas Frank on How the Harris-Walz Ticket Can Win Red State Voters”  The Apprentice Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Political and cultural critic Thomas Frank joins host Whitney Terrell to discuss how Democrats and Republicans courted voters from the Midwest and South at their respective conventions. Frank gives reports from the floors of both the Republican and Democratic national conventions, which he attended. He analyzes the efforts that the Trump-Vance and Harris-Walz tickets have made to attract union and working class, “red state” votes. He also reads a passage from his famed 2004 book What’s the Matter with Kansas on the origin of the terms “red state” and “blue state” and discusses the surprising staying power, and fundamental absurdity, of these categories. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Thomas Frank The People, No: A Brief History of Anti-populism What’s the Matter With Kansas: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People? The Conquest of Cool: Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism Others: Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 3, episode 22: “The Unpopular Tale of Populism: Thomas Frank on the Real History of an American Mass Movement” Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 5, episode 31: “What Do Dems Do Now? Thomas Frank on How the Left Can Counter a Rogue Supreme Court” David Brooks John Podhoretz Blake Hurst Hulk Hogan Kid Rock Ted Cruz Tucker Carlson “Acid, amnesty - and abortion: 1972 and all that” by Michael Cross | Law Society Gazette | May 4, 2022  George McGovern George Wallace The New Deal Robert Reich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nonfiction writer Alissa Quart joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss how the American obsession with “bootstrap narratives” led to the publishing industry championing Hillbilly Elegy, the bestselling and problematic memoir by J.D. Vance, who was subsequently elected to the Senate and is now the Republican vice presidential nominee. Quart talks about Vance’s failure to credit those who have contributed to his success and reflects on both the fetishization of poverty and the importance of authentic representation. She also explains the long tradition of self-made man narratives and their underlying queer romantic elements, and compares Vance’s work to that of writers like Laura Ingalls Wilder and Horatio Alger. She critiques Vance’s recent remarks about childless and professional women and suggests the need for a more nuanced and expansive understanding of community. Quart talks about the nonprofit she leads, the Economic Hardship Reporting Project, and reads from her book, Bootstrapped: Liberating Ourselves from the American Dream. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Alissa Quart Bootstrapped: Liberating Ourselves from the American Dream Thoughts and Prayers  Squeezed: Why Our Families Can't Afford America  Monetized  Republic of Outsiders: The Power of Amateurs, Dreamers, and Rebels  Economic Hardship Reporting Project   "JD Vance is the Toxic Byproduct of America’s Obsession with Bootstrap Narratives" | Literary Hub Others: Laura Ingalls Wilder Horatio Alger Barbara Ehrenreich Dorothy Allison Elizabeth Catte Alex Miller Bobbi Dempsey Ann Larson Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 6, Episode 32: “The East Palestine Train Derailment and Your Health: Kerri Arsenault on the Pervasive and Ongoing Risks of Dioxin”  “‘Dangerous and un-American’: new recording of JD Vance’s dark vision of women and immigration” by Jason Wilson | The Guardian Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis Going for Broke with Ray Suarez | The Nation Going for Broke | NPR Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

ProPublica reporter Joshua Kaplan joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss his recent article on militia group American Patriots Three Percent, or AP3. Kaplan talks about group founder Scot Seddon, a former Army reservist, and how he created a movement whose members number gun control and the “LGBTQ agenda” among their grievances. Kaplan also reflects on AP3’s ties to law enforcement, the military, and elected officials, as well as their calculated attempts to brand themselves. He considers the recent history of militias in the U.S., including the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and explains how that led to a loss of momentum for the movement, the subsequent rise of recruiting via Facebook, and the environment that allowed for the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Finally, he reflects on how Donald Trump fans the flames of extremist groups like AP3. Kaplan reads from his article. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Joshua Kaplan "Armed and Underground: Inside the Turbulent, Secret World of an American Militia" Others: Oklahoma City Bombing “Trump to Host ‘The J6 Awards Gala’ at His Bedminster Golf Club” by Owen Lavine | The Daily Beast BlacKkKlansman Mad Max Keith Kidwell Oath Keepers Southern Poverty Law Center Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Following Elon Musk’s estranged daughter Vivian Jenna Wilson’s accusations of unethical behavior on the part of Musk’s authorized biographer, memoirist Kelly McMasters and biographer Iris Jamahl Dunkle join co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about the ethics of biography. Dunkle, the author of Riding Like the Wind: The Life of Sanora Babb, talks about using archives to restore the history of Babb, the writer whose notes John Steinbeck used to research The Grapes of Wrath, and how women’s lives are often wrongly or incompletely depicted. McMasters, a memoirist whose recent book The Leaving Season: A Memoir portrays many people close to her, talks about the impossibility of writing honestly about her life without including her children, the two people with whom she spends the most time. Dunkle and McMasters discuss Wilson’s accusations against Walter Isaacson, whom she says did not directly contact her for comment for his recent book about her father, although much of his book refers to her life. The group also discusses recent revelations that Alice Munro failed to act when she learned that her second husband had abused her daughter, and how authorized biographies often omit full accounts of the truth. Dunkle and McMasters read from their work. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Iris Jamahl Dunkle  Riding Like the Wind: The Life of Sanora Babb  West: Fire: Archive Charmian Kittredge London: Trailblazer, Author, Adventurer Finding Lost Voices | Substack Kelly McMasters The Leaving Season: A Memoir Welcome to Shirley: A Memoir From and Atomic Town This Is the Place: Women Writing About Home “The Ethics of Writing Hard Things in Family Memoir,” Literary Hub Others: Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson “Musk’s Daughter Flames Dad’s Biographer: ‘You Threw Me to the Wolves’” by Dan Ladden-Hall | Daily Beast J.D. Salinger The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck “What do we Know about Alice Munro Now?” by Contance Grady | Vox La Belle Noiseuse The Hyacinth Girl: T.S. Eliot’s Hidden Muse by Lyndall Gordon Loving Sylvia Plath: A Reclamation by Emily Van Duyne Jackson Pollock “What Virginia Woolf’s ‘Dreadnought Hoax’ Tells Us About Ourselves” by Danell Jones | January 25, 2024 | Literary Hub Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 6 Episode 19: “The Lives of the Wives: Carmela Ciuraru on Marriage, Writing, and Equity” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Novelist Francine Prose joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her new book, 1974: A Personal History. Prose talks about her relationship with Tony Russo, who in collaboration with Daniel Ellsberg leaked the Pentagon Papers, a whistleblowing act which revealed decades of government lies about U.S. involvement in Vietnam; how the politics and progressive activism of today compare to those of half a century ago; and why that year was politically pivotal. She also reflects on how in 1974, the idea of government dishonesty was shocking, whereas today it’s a given. Prose reads from the book. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Francine Prose 1974: A Personal History A Changed Man Blue Angel Anne Frank: the Book, The Life, the Afterlife Others: The Heritage Foundation The Sixties: Big Ideas, Small Books by Jenny Diski Opus Dei J.D. Vance Patty Hearst RAND Corporation Daniel Ellsberg Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 6, Episode 46: “Samuel G. Freedman on What Hubert Humphrey’s Fight for Civil Rights Can Teach Us Today” Ground Truth | NPR Journey to Italy Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb Cato Institute Pentagon Papers Espionage Act Comstock Act Wag the Dog Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marine biologist Jasmin Graham joins co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to discuss her new book, Sharks Don’t Sink: Adventures of a Rogue Shark Scientist, which is about the beauty and diversity of sharks and her career studying them inside and outside of academia. Graham, who left a doctoral program and subsequently founded the community-based organization Minorities in Shark Science to make the field more accessible and inclusive, unpacks how Jaws-inspired fears about sharks fail to understand the species. She also talks about seeing similarities in how sharks and Black people are misrepresented, misunderstood, brutalized, and threatened. Graham reads from Sharks Don’t Sink.   To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Jasmin Graham  Sharks Don't Sink: Adventures of a Rogue Shark Scientist “How Japanese-American Scientist Eugenie Clark Spearheaded the Study of Sharks” | Literary Hub Others: "50 Years Ago, ‘Jaws’ Hit Bookstores, Capturing the Angst of a Generation" by Brian Raftery | The New York Times  Opinion | "What is Trump’s shark story really about?" by Eugene Robinson | The Washington Post  Opinion | "What is going on inside Trump’s mind?" by Eugene Robinson | The Washington Post Jaws by Peter Benchley  Deep Wizardry by Diane Duane  Finding Nemo Shark Tale Shark Week SharkFest Apocalypse Now Anthony Swofford Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 25: "Ivy Pochoda on Caitlin Clark and Women Athletes” Nyad “Donald Trump Mocked Over 'Bizarre Rant' About Sharks” | video | Newsweek Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Romance novelists Elle Everhart and Ellie Palmer join co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about the genre’s increasing popularity. Everhart, the London-based author of the new book Hot Summer, featuring a protagonist who joins the cast of a reality show only to realize she’s interested in a fellow contestant, discusses coming to romance writing as a fourth grader fascinated by kissing, and wonders why as sales boom, the U.S.—but not the U.K.—is seeing more romance-specific bookstores. Palmer, the author of the new book Four Weekends and a Funeral, whose main character is a carrier of the BRCA1 mutation, recalls falling in love with the genre as she prepared for her own preventative double mastectomy. She reflects on how the genre’s structure promises positive endings for those who need them at challenging moments, and how the language of romance gave her a way to think about her own body and sexuality. Everhart reads from Hot Summer and Palmer reads from Four Weekends and a Funeral.  To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Elle Everhart Hot Summer Wanderlust Ellie Palmer Four Weekends and a Funeral Others "9 New Books We Recommend This Week" | May 4, 2023 | The New York Times  "Hot and Bothered: Four New Romance Novels" by Olivia Waite | August 7, 2020 | The New York Times Nora Ephron Nancy Meyers Mhairi McFarlane Beth O'Leary Talia Hibbert Bolu Babalola “A Romance Bookstore Boom” by Olivia Waite | The New York Times “Emily Henry is Proud to be Called a Romance Writer” by | The New York Times Olivia Waite Jodi Picoult Love Island Tropes & Trifles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New York Daily News columnist Harry Siegel joins co-host V.V. Ganeshananthan and guest co-host Matt Gallagher to talk about his recent piece about the Supreme Court’s decision to permit what he has dubbed “after-the-fact bribery.” Siegel, who has covered corruption for years, explains how the legality of accepting gratuities, tips, and gifts has become so nuanced that it’s now almost impossible to prosecute a politician who’s been bought off, and details why the newest version of the law is “fundamentally incoherent.” Siegel also talks about the language, literature, and history around ducking the rules, including the origin of the word “scofflaw,” and reads from a recent New York Daily News article. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Harry Siegel “Supreme Court Legalizes After-the-Fact Bribery” New York Daily News | June 6, 2024 “Scofflaw Trump is a Defaming Menace to America” New York Daily News | January 27, 2024 The muckrackers and the gunslingers: What’s in the balance as the Supreme Court gets ready to take up a legal challenge to New York’s tough firearm laws” New York Daily News | February 1, 2019 Others: “English, loanword champion of the world” by Britt Peterson | The Boston Globe | June 29, 2014        Breaking Bad The Sopranos      Succession Bad English: A History of Linguistic Aggravations by Amman Shea Thomas Malthus Archy and Mehitabel by Don Marquis e.e. cummings Krazy Kat by George Harriman Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol All the King’s Men by Robert Penn Warren The Last Hurrah by Edwin O’Connor Democracy by Joan Didion Democracy and American Novel by Henry Brooks Adams Primary Colors by Joe Klein Plunkitt of Tammany Hall by William R. Riordon The Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan The Man in the Arena: Selected Writings of Theodore Roosevelt: A Reader by Theodore Roosevelt Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Novelist Sally Franson and critic Emily Nussbaum join host V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about reality television. Franson, a recent reality TV show winner whose new novel, Big in Sweden, is from the point of view of a woman who joins the cast of a program in that country, reflects on transforming her real-life experience into fiction. Nussbaum, a staff writer at The New Yorker whose new nonfiction book, Cue the Sun!: The Invention of Reality TV, addresses the history of what she calls the “dirty documentary” genre, discusses the hundreds of interviews she conducted with reality show staff, as well as the form’s surprisingly early origins and the influence of The Apprentice on national politics. Nussbaum and Franson trade notes on how the relationships between people on camera and people behind the camera influence edited footage; the way race was and is handled on reality television; and what it’s like to be a contestant or producer. They also talk about poor labor conditions on sets and what that means to the genre. They read from their work. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Sally Franson  Big in Sweden A Lady's Guide to Selling Out Emily Nussbaum Cue the Sun!: The Invention of Reality TV I Like to Watch: Arguing My Way Through the TV Revolution “Is “Love Is Blind” a Toxic Workplace?” | The New Yorker Others: Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 26: “Sally Franson on Fashion and Literature” Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 6, Episode 33: “The Stakes of the Writers’ Strike: Benjamin Percy on the WGA Walkout, Streaming, and the Survival of Screenwriting” Allt för Sverige Big Brother The Real World Survivor Love is Blind An American Family The Amazing Race Heartburn by Nora Ephron Nora Ephron Carl Bernstein Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the wake of the recent Trump-Biden debate, public relations operative Phil Elwood joins co-host V.V. Ganeshananthan and guest co-host Matt Gallagher to talk about his career spinning stories in favor of infamous international leaders. Elwood, whose clients previously included figures like Libya’s Gaddafi family and Syria’s al-Assads, recalls his strangest assignments, his biggest regret—helping Qatar to secure soccer’s World Cup—and his proudest accomplishments, including spotlighting the mental health treatment that has helped him. He reflects on how his career shifted when he was swept up in then-FBI Director Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, and also explains tactics such as “detonating the bomb in a safe location,” which means giving an unavoidable, damaging story to a second-tier publication so that the “hit isn’t so bad.” Elwood reads from his new book, All the Worst Humans: How I Made News for Dictators, Tycoons, and Politicians. To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf. Phil Elwood All the Worst Humans: How I Made New for Dictators, Tycoons, and Politicians Others: “Sri Lanka, Lobbyists and War Crimes” by Ken Silverstein | Harper’s Magazine | October 23, 2009 “Gunner Palace,” by Peter Travers | Rolling Stone | February 24, 2005 “Nothing seemed to treat their depression. Then they tried ketamine,” by Meryl Kornfield | The Washington Post | September 12, 2022 John Grisham Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election by Robert Mueller | U.S. Department of Justice | March 2019 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices