The Prompt

Horses don’t trust you because you tell them to. They learn from consistency, predictability and what you do over time.Mark Drosos, SVP of Channel Sales & Alliances at Conductor, joins Rachel Truair to explore why that idea has surprising implications for how brands show up in AI. As answer engines increasingly interpret, recommend and eventually select brands, simply creating more content or chasing citations will not be enough.They discuss why the best brand may still lose if AI does not see the right signals at the right moment, how “agent selectability” changes the role of content across the buying journey, and why brands may need to start thinking of AI agents as another audience, or even another member of the buying group.The conversation ultimately asks what happens when brands are no longer trying to earn credibility only from people, but from the machines increasingly helping people decide what to believe, what to buy and eventually what to do.Quotes“I want to own the consensus, not the source.”“Today, it only knows what you tell it to know. And not every consumer knows what to tell it.”“This selectability and this area of being mentioned and cited won’t be enough. You’re gonna have to be authentic about what you do eventually.”What we cover● Why Mark sees an unexpected parallel between earning a horse’s trust and earning credibility with AI: both depend on consistency, predictability and repeated signals over time.● Why AEO may follow the same evolution social media did, moving from trying to game a new channel toward genuinely earning the right to participate in the conversation.● How Mark compares AI discovery to a horse-show flat class, where even the best horse can lose if the judge does not see it at the right moment, and why brands need the right message for different personas, topics and stages of the buying journey.● What Mark means by “agent selectability,” and why the next challenge is not simply getting cited by AI but helping an agent understand the customer well enough to choose the right product for that person.● Why AI recommendations still lack some of the verification signals consumers have learned to expect from reviews, influencers and other sources of third-party credibility, and why Mark believes authenticity will become increasingly important.● Why Mark thinks companies should start treating the AI agent as a distinct audience, rethink how their content maps to personas and buying journeys, and prepare for a future where people increasingly ask and get rather than search and click.About Mark DrososMark established himself as a pioneer in human-generated data partnerships well before AI and Big Data dominated industry discussions. He currently leads global partnerships at Conductor, a leader in AI Search and Content Creation. He launched Lodestone, a platform leveraging AI and data to enhance fan engagement for sports franchises and media organizations. While at Bazaarvoice, he led the creation of syndicating premium user-generated content, powering Agentic Shopping Engines with authentic images, videos, and consumer reviews.Prior to Bazaarvoice, at Khoros, he managed the shift toward early chatbots and agents by overseeing the partnership and acquisition of Flow.ai. When Mark is not focused on AI partner ecosystems, his weekends are dedicated to being a horse show dad to his daughter and serving as the versatile "extra guy" for his wife's equestrian enterprise. From hauling horses to repairing well pumps, fences, trailers, and tractors, his hands-on approach to the “dirty jobs” at the barn has led his friends to jokingly call him the Mike Rowe of AI.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markdrosos/

AI can make people productive before it makes them experienced. That creates a new problem for leaders: if junior employees stop doing the work that once taught judgment, where will the next generation of experts come from?Elizabeth Maxson, CMO of Contentful, joins Rachel Truair to explore what her team calls “judgment debt”—the long-term cost of automating away the experiences people use to build instinct, context and expertise. They discuss why Elizabeth still requires humans to write the brief, why knowing when AI is wrong may become more valuable than knowing how to use it, and why she believes leaders need a “human on the hook,” not simply a human in the loop.The conversation ultimately asks whether businesses can capture AI’s efficiency without accidentally dismantling the apprenticeship system that creates their future leaders.Quotes“You have to build judgment by actually doing the work and having lived experiences.”“I want to shift ‘human in the loop’ to ‘human on the hook,’ because if something does not work, who’s accountable? We are.”“Do you have enough expertise to know when it’s wrong? And if you don’t, do you at least have enough expertise to ask the question to figure it out?”From the conversationWhy automating entry-level work could create a long-term shortage of judgment, skills and institutional knowledge, even if nothing appears broken today.How Elizabeth separates work AI should accelerate, such as analyzing large data sets and creating a “crappy first draft,” from the strategy, curiosity and accountability she believes should remain human.Why Contentful still requires humans to build detailed briefs, and why Elizabeth believes some organizations may need to “go slow to go fast” instead of treating speed as the objective.What “judgment debt” looks like when people rely on AI before they have enough experience to recognize when its answers are wrong, and why mentorship and human relationships still matter.How hiring may change when candidates use AI to produce excellent work: Elizabeth argues leaders should test the thinking, response to feedback and decision-making behind the output rather than simply banning the technology.About the guestElizabeth Maxson is the Chief Marketing Officer of Contentful, a content management platform trusted by more than 4,200 companies around the world.Elizabeth brings nearly two decades of integrated marketing leadership to the role and is focused on driving marketing strategies that leverage AI and personalization to help brands deliver personalized and scalable content to their audiences.Prior to Contentful, Elizabeth served as the Chief Marketing Officer at Tableau, a Salesforce company, where she led go-to-market strategy and drove end-to-end marketing initiatives. In addition to her role at Tableau, Elizabeth has also served as the Head of Marketing at Quip, another Salesforce acquisition, as well as spearheaded Strategic Technology Partnerships marketing, launching critical relationships with industry giants such as AWS, Google Cloud, Alibaba, Apple, and many others.She carries a BAA in Facility Management and Marketing from Central Michigan University.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emaxson/

The internet used to make a simple promise: create something valuable, get discovered, and earn the visit. That promise is disappearing as Google answers questions on the results page, social platforms suppress outbound links, and AI tools summarize sources without sending them traffic. Rand Fishkin, CEO and cofounder of SparkToro, joins Rachel Truair to ask whether adapting to this zero-click era also helps cement it. Rand explains why attribution rewards the platforms that capture demand rather than the channels that create it, what marketers should measure instead, and why falling traffic may push the industry back toward brand, creativity, and work people genuinely remember.The question underneath it all: when every rational marketing decision sends us deeper into closed platforms, are we surviving a broken internet or helping break it?QuotesThe zero-click playbook"Your job is to go to the places where your audience pays attention."When AI gives you an answer without the source"Check for the source every time. My God, you can't trust those things."Brand building in a zero-click world"Brand building is about being present in people's sort of daily lives and habits."From the conversationHow Google Ads can take credit for demand created by a podcast, PR, content, or an event - and why that distorts the next budget decisionWhy zero-click search has accelerated since 2024 as Google, social networks, and AI tools increasingly answer without sending trafficWhat replaces traffic and attribution: finding where an audience pays attention, creating for that environment, and measuring lift and incrementalityWhy the zero-click era may revive brand building, creative risk, and the kinds of marketing that dashboards struggle to proveWhy websites remain essential even as visits decline, and why Rand now believes "don't build your home on rented land" is outdated adviceAbout the guestRand Fishkin is CEO and cofounder of three companies: SparkToro, makers of fine audience research software, pun-filled Google Alerts alternative Alertmouse, and indie game developer Snackbar Studio.He’s the co-author (with Amanda Natividad) of the upcoming Zero Click Marketing and 2018’s Lost and Founder. When Rand’s not working, he’s usually traveling with or cooking a fancy meal for the love of his life, bestselling author Geraldine DeRuiter.Rand was, in a past life, the CEO/cofounder of Moz, and Inbound.org. He’s keynoted hundreds of events around the world on marketing, technology, and entrepreneurship and his research has been cited by the US DOJ, FTC, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Economist, alongside thousands of other publications.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/

We've spent nearly two decades trying to make selling easier, CRMs, automation, sequences, intent data, and now AI. So why does it feel harder than ever to actually earn a buyer's trust? Jen Allen-Knuth, founder of DemandJen, joins Rachel Truair to explore whether sales technology was ever really built for the buyer, or whether it mostly optimized the seller's side of the interaction. Jen makes the case that “personalization” has become one of the emptiest words in sales, breaks down what actually makes a cold email work, and gives her honest read on whether the sales profession shrinks as AI takes over research and outreach. The question underneath it all: if every piece of sales technology disappeared tomorrow, what would still make one human worth talking to?Quotes"I think if we continue on as we have, there is going to be a much smaller number of people that are gonna sit in a sales profession.""Personalization has been one of the worst terms to ever come out of sales or marketing because it's not specific enough to mean anything.""In sales, the hard work works because it's hard. Most people choose easy."From the conversationWhy so much of sales technology has been built to optimize the seller's side of the interaction, not the buyer'sWhy “personalization” has become one of the emptiest words in sales and marketing, and what real relevance looks like insteadWhat separates a cold email that gets a reply from the hundreds that get ignoredWhether the sales profession shrinks as AI takes over research, writing, and outreach, and where a human still earns their seat at the tableWhy customer stories are sales' most underused asset, buried in an LMS while reps lean on self-congratulatory slidesAbout the guestJen is the founder of DemandJen, a sales training and consulting company focused on helping GTM teams break through the status quo and avoid losing pipeline to buyer risk aversion. As a keynote speaker and sales trainer, she specializes in equipping sales teams selling into enterprise and mid-market with the tools to overcome customer hesitation and close more deals. Jen brings in-depth strategies to help teams confront the fear of change and risk, and she's a go-to for sales kickoffs and workshops that drive success.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/demandjen1/

New research on thousands of professionals found something leaders don't want to hear: 53% of individuals say they're already deep into using AI, while only 25% think their own organization has caught up. Mike Kaput joins Rachel Truair to push that gap down one level, past the industry stat, into the team a leader thinks they know. Mike explains why the real barrier is uneven training rather than the tools themselves, makes the case that most knowledge workers aren't ready for the shift from chat to agentic AI, and shares the one question he'd ask any team to find out what's actually happening. The question underneath it all: how sure are you that you already know what your team would say?Quotes“It's less about the tool and a lot more about your approach.”"53% of people said they're already in the advanced stages of using AI. Only 25% said the same about their own organization.""Your average knowledge worker is pretty unprepared for the switch from chat to agentic AI."From the conversationWhy 53% of individuals say they're already in advanced stages of AI adoption, while only 25% think their organization isWhy the gap comes down to uneven training and access, not a lack of desire to use AIWhat's actually different about agentic AI tools, and why most knowledge workers aren't ready for that shiftWhether the future favors specialized, vertical AI tools or the big frontier models everyone already hasThe one question Mike recommends every leader ask their team to find out the truth about how they're using AIAbout the guestMike Kaput is the Chief Content Officer at SmarterX and a leading voice on the application of AI in marketing and business. He is also the co-author of Marketing Artificial Intelligence and co-host of The Artificial Intelligence Show podcast.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekaput/