The Leadership Journey Podcast

Leaders do not lead in a vacuum. There is always a context, and part of that context is the organisation within which the leader operates, whether it's a business with many employees or a church with an army of volunteers. So what do Christian leaders need to know about how organisations operate? Frank Markow has written about this in his book, 'Organizational Behavior in Christian Perspective'. Frank is Professor of Leadership Studies at the King's University in Texas. Notes: Of course if the book had been published on this side of the Atlantic, there would be a couple of tweaks to the spelling! Books mentioned include 'Leadership' - Peter Northouse; 'A Phenomenology of Pentecostal Leadership - Truls Akerlund.

As well as being a wife, mother, and grandmother, Ruth Walker describes herself as 'a whole-life disciple' with a portfolio career. She is a non-executive director with a number of charities, including Bethany Christian Trust, a charity dedicated to ending homelessness across Scotland. She is also a coach and a speaker. In our conversation she talks about her strong Christian family and the formative years spent growing up in a Brethren church in Glasgow where she became involved in the ministry of Crusaders (now Urban Saints). Her career has involved several roles and working with some inspiring leaders. She also talks about her work with LICC and the Evangelical Alliance Public Leader programme. As well as discussing some of her key learnings on the subject of leadership, Ruth shares what she would say to her 20-year-old self.

Wendy Pawsey is Head of Giving at the Evangelical Alliance: she also leads an Elim Church in rural Buckinghamshire, along with her husband, Marcus. Wendy has also written a book on generosity: Generosity with a Capital G. The book is published by Instant Apostle: it launches this month and is featured as part of The Big Church Read. Wendy joined me on this episode of the podcast to talk about the book and its theme of generosity. She also talks about her own fascinating story of coming to faith and her journey in Christian ministry. You can get a copy of the book via the outlets listed on the Instant Apostle website, or by visiting The Big Church Read.

Tod Bolsinger is the author of popular leadership books, Canoeing the Mountains, and Tempered Resilience: we chatted on a couple of episodes of this podcast back in 2021. More recently he has been working on a series of short books on change. How not to waste a crisis The mission always wins Leading through resistance Invest in transformation Basically, the books work off the ideas that Tod has established in his earlier writing, in particular Canoeing the Mountains. Each of the books tackles a mistake that good leaders often make, whether it is responding to a crisis by working harder, or aiming to lead always on the basis of ‘win-win’ – the mistakes form the (sometimes provocative) subtitles of the books. These mistakes are what he calls old mindsets and they need to be replaced by a series of new skillsets which lead to an adaptive reset. In our conversation we begin to unpack some of the key ideas in the books – mission, loss, disagreement and values. Hopefully you will hear enough to make you want to purchase the books and get to work on them with your leadership team! The collection will be available around the middle of August, but they are already available for pre-order. If you are in the US, visit the IVP website, and in the UK, try Eden Books.

For the past 16 years Fred Drummond has been the director of the Evangelical Alliance in Scotland – a role he is leaving in a few weeks. He also has a role with the EA in encouraging and developing prayer. In our podcast conversation he talks about his early years, including the story of coming to faith in Jesus and how he was mentored both in his first steps as a Christian, and as he developed in ministry. He also talks about his work in Scotland, with the challenge of encouraging Christians to cultivate intimacy with Jesus, hope in the gospel, and confidence to live as disciples in a rapidly secularising culture. He shares personally about his own habits of prayer and – as with other guests on the podcast – about what pieces of advice he would share with his 20-year-old self. You can find a selection of Fred’s writing, including his articles on woundedness in leaders, via the website of the Evangelical Alliance.

On this episode of the podcast, the guests are husband and wife team, ‘Mitch’ and Amanda Mitchell who are based in Belfast with Crown Jesus Ministries, a Christian charity at work in evangelism across Ireland. In our conversation they talk about their own story – how they became Christians and some of the ways their faith has grown – as well as the remarkable story of Crown Jesus, birthed in a dramatic encounter at a conference in Germany 25 years ago. They bring a challenge in terms of how we think of evangelism and what they believe needs to happen in the Church (and academy) for witness and evangelism to regain their rightful place. Of course we also wrap up the conversation by hearing them share what they would say to their 20-year-old selves. You can visit their website to find out more about Crown Jesus and their mission to ensure that everyone on the island of Ireland has the opportunity to hear and respond to the good news of Jesus.

This week the Evangelical Alliance in Northern Ireland released a detailed snapshot of evangelicals in this part of the world. ‘Good News People’ brings together the results of two surveys that were carried out in 2023: one, a representative survey of the general population, and the other, an online survey of professing Christians. David Smyth, head of the Evangelical Alliance in Northern Ireland, joins me to talk about the report. You can download your own copy of the report, or read it online, on the EA website.

Colin Holmes is pastor of Ferrybank Christian Community Church in Waterford. Four years ago he suffered a brain injury (from which he has thankfully recovered). He has recently written about his experience in a new book, Recovering Life: Searching for a Healthy Spirituality for the Whole of our Humanity. Not only does the book reflect on Colin’s experience of a health crisis, but it also seeks to reflect on a number of themes that Colin believes have been brought into focus during the recent pandemic. Colin takes these themes and turns to Scripture to trace ways in which they are discussed there. In our conversation we talk about Colin’s story and about aspects of the book. For anyone in Northern Ireland, there is a launch event in Ballymena on Friday, February 16. It’s a ticketed event and the price of the ticket covers a meal as well as a copy of the book. Tickets are available on Eventbrite (follow the link). Otherwise, the book is available at various Christian bookshops.

My guest on this episode of the podcast has been described as ‘the nicest man in politics’. While John Kyle is no longer involved in electoral politics, he has some fascinating things to say about his career (which culminated in him serving as High Sheriff of Belfast) and on the role that Christians can play in civic life – and it was pertinent that we were having this conversation what may turn out to be a(nother) pivotal week in Northern Ireland politics. As well as his political career John has worked as a GP and has been very involved in church and pastoral work. Our conversation covers his formative years, including his experience in the fledgling Charismatic movement in Belfast and runs through his time as a GP and on to his time as a member of the Progressive Unionist Party in Belfast. He has a lot to say about the idea of vocation outside of the conventional understanding of church or mission work and he brings encouragement for Christians involved in politics and other areas of civic life: the key is servanthood. He’s also given some thought to the five things he would say to his twenty-year old self.

The guest on this episode of the podcast is Justin Irving. Justin is Professor of Leadership at Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky and his new book, Healthy Leadership for Thriving Organizations: Creating Contexts Where People Flourish, is set for publication this month. Previously, along with Mark Strauss, he wrote Leadership in Christian Perspective: Mark Strauss joined me on the podcast four years ago to talk about the book. Justin’s new book focusses on the work of organisational leaders, what he describes as ‘the thirty-thousand-foot-level of leadership’. Such leaders are still required to pay attention to how they lead individuals, but they also lead at a level that requires them to pay attention to the big picture. Behind the book are insights from a survey that was carried out among over two hundred leaders. In our conversation we spend some time talking about the book and some of the ideas it covers, but Justin also talks about his own story: how he has been shaped, and what he has learned along the way. The book’s official launch date is Tuesday 19th December in the US and as a Kindle e-book in the UK: you will have to wait another two months to get your hands on a paper copy here. That’s all for the podcast for 2023. If you have been following along – or even just dipping in from time to time, thanks for listening, and may you have a wonderful Christmas!

Paul Williams is the Chief Executive of the Bible Society, a charity dedicated to making the message available to everyone. Previously he has worked in business in London and has taught at Regent College in Vancouver, where he is Research Professor of Marketplace Theology and Leadership. He is the executive producer of Reframe, a resource that aims to help Christians see how the gospel reframes all of life. Paul is also the author of Exiles on Mission: How Christians Can Thrive in a Post-Christian World. The book is the fruit of years of reflection and challenges Christians to engage missionally in the world. The late Tim Keller had this to say about the book: “This book comes at a most important time, when orthodox Protestant believers in particular are struggling. In some ways it is the age-old problem of how to relate Christianity to culture, but in other ways we are faced with some unique challenges–namely, how to engage not merely a pre-Christian or a non-Christian but a post-Christian society. Williams’s book helps us avoid the twin dangers of being too at home in or too withdrawn from our culture. We are exiles, but exiles on mission. Highly recommended.” In our conversation Paul talks about some of the ideas behind the book and we also spend some time exploring Paul’s leadership journey, from his earliest interest in the Bible through a developing path that has brought him to his current role with the Bible Society. The book is available from the Bible Society; if you live in Northern Ireland you can get a copy from ICM Books or the Evangelical Bookshop, and there are various online options for ordering, as well as a Kindle version. There is one more podcast episode planned for 2023: I will be talking to author and seminary professor Justin Irving about his new book, Healthy Leadership for Thriving Organizations: it’s filled with helpful ideas for leaders of churches and Christian organisations or businesses.

Jonathan Thomas is pastor of Cornerstone Church in Abergavenny, Wales. He is a regular contributor to BBC Radio Wales, has written and presents the material in a recent film on ‘Welsh Awakenings‘ and has published ‘Intentional Interruptions‘, a book that challenges us about the interruptions we experience in our distractedness and encourages us to seek the ways that God wants to interrupt us. In this episode of the podcast, Jonathan talks about his journey as a Christian and in leadership, from his early years in a Welsh-speaking chapel, through his conversion and early steps in ministry. He. talks about some of the challenges that leaders can face in remaining focussed on the core of their calling and reminds us of the ‘glorious mundane’ – the sphere of simple service to God, perhaps in smaller or apparently less-spectacular places. He also talks about his book and – of course – what he would say to his 20-year-old self. Watch out for a moment of poetic irony towards the end of the conversation! The book, Intentional Interruptions, is available through various outlets: you might like to consider buying several copies to use with a small group. In December I will be talking with Paul Williams, Chief Executive of the Bible Society.

This week we have another book-related episode as I am joined by Jo Frost and Peter Lynas who are talking about their new book, Being Human: A New Lens for our Cultural Conversations. Jo has been with EA since 2017 and is director of communications and engagement. Peter is UK director and oversees EA’s advocacy work. In our conversation Jo and Peter talk about their own journeys in Christian leadership and their work with EA (Peter has previously been a guest on the podcast and you can listen to his story here). They also talk about the book – how they came to write it, what the process of team writing was like and some of the basic ideas behind the book. The book is one part of a suite of resources on the theme of Being Human – details of a podcast and video course are available on a special ‘Being Human’ website. Peter Lynas and Jo Frost along with Manoj Raithatha, Chairman of the Evangelical Alliance, pictured at a book launch event in September There is a special bonus for listeners to this episode of the podcast (and to anyone living in Northern Ireland). If you would like to support the work of the Evangelical Alliance, you can take out a personal or family membership: as part of your welcome pack you will receive a copy of the book. To find out more, or to sign up, go to the Evangelical Alliance website. The guest on the next episode of the podcast will be Jonathan Thomas, pastor of Cornerstone Church in Abergavenny.

Iain Provan is a retired professor of Biblical Studies at Regent College in Vancouver where he worked for twenty-five years. He is the author of several books and his most recent offering is Cuckoos in our Nest: Truth and Lies about Being Human which was published earlier this year. In our conversation we talk about Iain’s own story, from growing up in Scotland, and spend time talking about some of the ideas in the book. The book essentially presents a biblical theology of what it means to be human, teasing out some of the implications of this, for example as they relate to wealth or creation care, and identifying some of the cuckoos, or false ways of thinking that have found their way into the Christian nest. This is the first of a couple of podcasts on a similar theme as the next episode will consist of an interview with Jo Frost and Peter Lynas from the Evangelical Alliance, talking about their new book (set for release next week), Being Human. For more from Iain, visit his website, where you will find information about his writing and other teaching.

The guest on this episode of the podcast is author, speaker, family man, and outdoors adventurer, Andrew Ollerton. Andrew works with the Bible Society and has written The Bible: A Story That Makes Sense of Life, and Romans: A Letter That Makes Sense of Life. He has also written The Bible Course and The Romans Course which you can discover more on the website of the Bible Society. Andrew’s mission in life is to help cultivate confidence in the Bible. It’s a thread that runs through his own life as well as his work. We develop this theme in our conversation and towards the end Andrew discusses the task as it relates to: Preachers Parents Publishers and professors The digital space (we couldn’t come up with a word starting with P) Personal devotion As with other guests on the podcast, he shares what he would say to his twenty-year old self. Upcoming guests on the podcast include: Ian Provan, talking about his book, Cuckoos in our Nest: Truth and Lies about Being Human Jo Frost and Peter Lynas, from the Evangelical Alliance, talking about their upcoming book, Being Human, and the resources that will go along with it If you have not already done so, why not subscribe to to the podcast via Apple or Spotify? Andrew Ollerton (L) with Bear Grylls: they’re working on a new project together.

Last week Pauline and I had the opportunity to share some thoughts on ministry resilience in the context of a leadership seminar at the Keswick at Portstewart Convention. The overall theme of the convention week was unshakable and the week featured some outstanding Bible teaching from Gilbert Lennox on Daniel, and from Jonathan Thomas and Andrew Ollerton on Romans. In keeping with the overall theme (and with a little nod to James Bond) we called our seminar, Shaken but still Standing. Our presentation took the form of a conversation that we built around a structure that Pauline developed. If you want a quick takeaway, we start with the reminder that we are disciples and followers before we are leaders, and this means learning to walk with Jesus, which in turn means RELATIONSHIP, REST, and ROOTEDNESS. Here is a link to a PDF of the slides we used during the seminar: keswick-portstewart-2023-shaken-but-still-standing-1Download

The guest on this episode of the podcast is Andy Lamberton. For several years Andy has been leading the work of Exodus in the North West. Exodus is a young people’s discipleship movement that each year mobilises some 500 young people for summer missions. Andy’s role in Exodus is currently changing as he spearheads a new ministry called Legacy – a ministry designed to encourage fathers. He is married to a Derry Girl (an actual Derry Girl rather than a TV one) and has recently written his first book – Letters for Exiles: Faithful Living in a Faithless World. In our conversation we talk about Andy’s own story and about his new book.

John Risbridger served for 17 years as pastor of Above Bar Church in Southampton. For most of the past year he has been working on an MA in Global Missiology and he and his wife, Alison have been appointed as the new leaders of the Catalyst Leadership and Theology training course. Previously John worked for several years for UCCF in both regional and national roles. He has also served as chair of the Keswick Convention and is currently chair of the Evangelical Alliance Council and a member of the board. He is a conference speaker and author, having written The Message of Worship in the IVP Bible Speaks Today series. In our conversation John talks about growing up in a strong family of faith and about the importance of forming strong peer friendships. He talks about some of the important lessons he has learned from various ministry settings and shares some of the opportunities and challenges of ministry. He also talks about ‘missional ecclesiology’ and the need for the Church to understand and speak of mission in a better way. And of course he also talks about what he would say to his twenty-year-old self. During the conversation we mention a talk John gave on depression at New Horizon in 2022. You can access the talk here.

On this episode of the podcast I am talking with Phil Knox. Phil works with the Evangelical Alliance as an evangelism and missiology specialist. Phil has recently published his second book, The Best of Friends: Choose wisely, Care well, and we spend some time talking about ideas from the book. To get a copy of the book, you can try your local Christian bookshop, or follow the link to the IVP page where you can purchase a copy – either an ‘actual’ book or an ebook. The podcast will be back in May and I will be talking with John Risbridger. John and his wife, Alison, are the leaders of the Catalyst Leadership and Theology Training programme.

My guest on this episode of the podcast is David (more commonly known as ‘Monty’) Montgomery. Monty is the Regional Secretary for IFES Europe (International Fellowship of Evangelical Students), a role that involves oversight of student work in over forty countries. In our conversation we discuss Monty’s early days (his father was a mission worker) and several key moments in the development of his faith. We talked about his sense of call to ministry and his time in the rarefied spiritual atmosphere of Regent College in Vancouver. This was followed by a season of ministry in several Presbyterian churches on either side of the Irish border before a move to student work with what became known as CUI (Christian Unions Ireland). Monty shares about some of the challenges of and encouragements of ministry, including a helpful and challenging outline of how the nature of internal challenges change over the course of a ministry journey. As ever, we conclude the conversation by hearing what he would say to his twenty-year old self. The next guest on the podcast will be Phil Knox. Phil works with the Evangelical Alliance and is the author of an excellent new book on friendship: The Best of Friends: Choose wisely, Care well.