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Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders
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Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders

Author: Scott J. Allen

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Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders offers a smart, fast-paced discussion on all things leadership. Scott and his expert guests cover timely, relevant topics and incorporate practical tips designed to help you make a difference in how you lead and live.
91 Episodes
Wiley “Chip” Souba, MD is Professor of Surgery and Adjunct Professor of Medical Education at the Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth. Chip is recognized for his innovative approaches to teaching leadership and his conviction that most of the barriers to great leadership are not external, but rather within. Thus, his emphasis is on the inward journey of leadership. He lectures, conducts workshops, and teaches courses on leadership around the world. He has published extensively on diverse topics such as leading yourself, personal and organizational transformation, barriers to effective leadership, resilience, and the language of leadership. Dr. Souba has served as Dean of Medicine and Vice-President for Health Affairs at two universities, Dartmouth and Ohio State. He has also served as Chairman of the Department of Surgery at Penn State, Chief of Surgical Oncology at the Massachusetts General Hospital, and Professor of Surgery at University of Florida. Dr. Souba is a summa cum laude graduate of Muskingum College and an AOA graduate of the University of Texas Medical School in Houston, where he also did his general surgery training. During his surgical residency, Dr. Souba completed a fellowship in surgical research at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital and earned a Doctorate in Science in Nutritional Biochemistry at the Harvard School of Public Health. He subsequently completed a fellowship in Surgical Oncology at the MD Anderson Hospital and Tumor Institute in Houston, Texas. Dr. Souba’s clinical interests are in surgical oncology. He has been regularly ranked as one of The Best Doctors in America by his peers and has been recognized for his clinical expertise by Boston Magazine. He was funded by the National Institute of Health for 20 years to study amino acid metabolism in catabolic diseases. He has published 350 articles in peer-reviewed journals, has served as Editorial Chair of American College of Surgeons Surgery, and was Co-editor of the Journal of Surgical Research for 20 years. Chip’s passion for developing leaders stems from his deep conviction that there is something about being human at this stage of our evolution that most human beings have not yet discovered or fully penetrated, the awareness of which would transform their lives and ultimately the world. He is committed to making that something available to as many people as possible. You can learn more about Chip's writing and work at www.theinwardjourneyofleadership.comQuotes From This Episode"I have come to believe that if you are not solid and square in here, you can't be as effective as you would otherwise be. I think leadership is an activity that involves people and moving them and organizations forward to a better place. But it has to be anchored in here.""You're always becoming a never become one, just like you never become a parent, you're always becoming a parent.""You have to want people to do better than you."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe "Pause"Kathy Allen's WebsiteWebsite: The Work of David Bohm About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Sharna Fabiano is an internationally recognized tango artist. Over the course of her twenty-year dance career, she toured over a dozen countries, designed partner-based movement courses for undergraduates, and founded a nonprofit tango school in Washington, DC. She is an outspoken advocate for the study of both leading and following roles independent of gender, a training practice that builds empathy, inclusion, and creativity. Sharna brings her deep understanding of the leader/follower dynamic in social dance into the professional sphere with original coaching programs that help professionals and teams collaborate more successfully. Sharna earned her MFA in dance from UCLA and lives in Los Angeles.Our First ConversationSharna Fabiano - Connect, Collaborate, CreateSharna's Latest BookLead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired TeamworkSharna's PodcastLead & Follow PodcastQuotes From This Episode"My life as a social dancer showed me that superior work, not to mention the most satisfying work comes not from everyone leading all of the time, but from leaders and followers working together." Leaders and Followers - "On either side, there needs to be that healthy commitment and engagement.""Power can be organized in a way that's more harmful/violent, or more supportive, protective, and nurturing...I think we're maybe always going to be on that spectrum somehow, as a human family."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBook: Sapiens: A Brief History of HumankindBook: Caste: The Origins of Our DiscontentsFilm: The InventorFilm: LFGFilm: weworkPodcast: Gaslit NationAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Elena  Antonacopoulou is the founder and director of GNOSIS an international, interdisciplinary, and independent research and leadership development Institute. She has held full-time Professorial appointments at the Universities of Liverpool, Manchester, and Warwick and currently holds Visiting Professorial appointments at Western University, Canada, University of Lincoln (UK), and the Royal Norwegian Airforce Academy (Norway). Her scientifically rigorous collaborative research in management and organization studies has earned her many research grants, awards, and accolades recognizing the impact of the ideas developed. Her principal research expertise lies in the areas of Strategic Change, Organisational Learning and Resilience, Knowledge, and Crisis Management with a focus on leadership implications. Elena’s work is published widely in international journals including Academy of Management Learning and Education Journal, Journal of Management Studies, British Journal of Management, Journal of Management Inquiry, Management Learning. She has co-edited 5 books including two new volumes (Sensuous Learning for Practical Judgment in Professional Practice) advancing innovative learning modes that enhance the impact of management practice. She has been elected and served in multiple leadership roles in the top professional bodies in the management field and has received several awards for her outstanding leadership and service contributions and teaching excellence. She is frequently invited to deliver keynote speeches at international conferences, and deliver workshops that inspire and promote action choices that serve the common good. She is a certified coach from the International Coaching Federation.Connecting with ElenaGoogle ScholarLinkedInQuotes From This Episode"Phronesis is a creative act, especially when navigating the unknown...It's not just what happens when we're faced with dilemmas, paradoxes, and crucible moments. Of course, that's where our strength of character shines and guides our action choices, which is why we mark it as an act of practical wisdom.""Practise is about repetition, not replication. I emphatically highlight in my work the distinction between repeating and replicating. I draw on Deleuze, who asserts that repetition is always about the difference. Hence, for me practising is about the leap of faith.""Reflexivity is this moment where we are in a situation fully present. So we show up, and we are experiencing it by allowing ourselves to feel and participate as an insider, at the same time, simultaneously, as we have the capacity to extrapolate and see it from an outsider's perspective.""Sensuousness is the secret intelligence that I don't think we've even begun to tap into, which is so important to phronesis. I call it CORE (Centeredness, Oneness, Reflex and Energy) Intelligence (CQ) because it is about tapping beyond our sensibility and sensitivity into our sentience".Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeEikeland, O. 2008. The ways of Aristotle: Aristotelian phrónêsis, aristotelian philosophy of dialogue, and action research. Shotter, J. & Tsoukas, H. 2014. In search of Phronesis: Leadership and the art of judgment. Academy of Management Learning & Education, 13: 224-243The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Keith Grint has been Professor Emeritus at Warwick University since 2018. He spent 10 years working in various positions across a number of industry sectors before switching to an academic career. His first undergraduate degree (Sociology) was from the Open University in 1981, and his second (Politics) from the University of York in 1982. He received his doctorate from the University of Oxford in 1986. He was Jr. Research Fellow at Nuffield College, Oxford University between 1985 and 1986 and a Research Fellow there from 1986 to 1987. Between 1986 and 1992 he was Lecturer in Sociology at Brunel University, and between 1992 and 1998 a Fellow at Templeton College, then University Lecturer in Organizational Behaviour, at the School of Management (now Saïd Business School), Oxford University. Between 1998 and 2004 he was University Reader in Organizational Behaviour at the Saïd Business School, and Director of Research there between 2002 and 2003. From 2004 to 2006 he was Professor of Leadership Studies and Dir. of the Lancaster Leadership Centre, Lancaster University School of Management. Between 2006 and 2008 he was Professor of Defence Leadership and Deputy Principal, Shrivenham Campus, Cranfield University. He was Professor of Public Leadership at Warwick Business School from 2009 to 2018. He is a Fellow of the International Leadership Association (ILA) and Professorial Fellow of the Australian Institute of Police Management (AIPM). He is also a founding co-editor with David Collinson of the journal Leadership, and co-founder of the International Studying Leadership Conference. He was elected a Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences in 2012 and was awarded an Honorary Doctorate of Science Warwick University in 2013. He received the Chief Constable’s Commendation for Contribution to Police Leadership in 2018 and a Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Leadership Association in 2018.Recent Books by Keith Mutiny and LeadershipLeadership: A Very Short IntroductionLeadership, Management & Command: Rethinking D-DayThe Arts of Leadership Connecting with KeithGoogle ScholarTwitter: @kgkeithgrintQuote From This Episode"A mutiny in technical terms is a conspiracy by two or more people in a military situation when they refuse to comply with a legitimate order.""(leading a mutiny) almost never goes well. So then the question is, why would you do that? Why would you put yourself through this? Your fellow mutineers might get off, but it's unlikely that you will."About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Alison M. Dachner is an Associate Professor of Management at the Boler College of Business, John Carroll University. She earned her Ph.D. from The Ohio State University. Dr. Dachner has experience working as Director of Education for an international call center as well as consulting on special projects in a variety of industries and companies, including NASA. Ali's research interests include how changes to the modern work environment and characteristics of certain populations (e.g., emerging adults) influence the design of strategies to most effectively engage, develop, transition, and retain employees and students. Her work has been published in Human Resources Management Review, Journal of Applied Psychology, Human Resource Development Quarterly, Journal of Management Education, and Academy of Management Annals. Ali is an Associate Editor for the Journal of Management Education. Her research can be found on Google Scholar and you can follow or connect with her on Twitter (@ProfDachner) or LinkedIn (Alison Dachner). Dr. Erin E. Makarius is an Associate Professor of Management at the College of Business at The University of Akron. She received her Ph.D. from The Ohio State University. Dr. Makarius has several years of experience in human resources and management, including working at and consulting with a variety of companies in the financial, insurance, and consumer products industries. Erin's research interests include boundary spanning in the form of technological, international, and organizational boundaries, with emphasis on the role of relationships and reputation in these processes. Her work has been widely published in journals such as the Journal of Management, Organization Science, Academy of Management Perspectives, Journal of World Business, and Organization Studies. Erin's research has received media coverage in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Management, Fox News, Forbes magazine, NPR, SHRM, and the Akron Beacon Journal, among others. She is on the editorial review board of the Journal of World Business. Her research can be found on Google Scholar and you can follow or connect with her on Twitter (@ProfMakarius) or LinkedIn (Erin Makarius).Harvard Business Review - Turn Departing Employees into Loyal AlumniQuote From This Episode"Companies should begin their off-boarding programs at the moment of hiring.""It's really about connections, and then maintaining those relationships, not only while you're at the firm, but beyond that formal organizational boundary and continuing that relationship after people leave."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Alliance by Reid Hoffman Remote Work Revolution by Tsedal Neeley Think Again by Adam Grant  About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
About Dr. Marcy Levy ShankmanAfter five years as the Leadership Coach and Strategist for the Cleveland Metropolitan School District, Marcy is now serving as the inaugural Chief Organizational Learning Officer. In this brand new role, Marcy continues to hold primary responsibility for providing leadership development support to the CEO, the District’s executive leadership team (“the Chiefs”), and 65-person Senior Leadership Team (SLT). Additionally, Marcy has been charged with designing and implementing a system-wide learning agenda for all employees of the District. Marcy lives in Shaker Heights with her husband Brett and loves being a mom for their two college-aged children, Rebecca and Joshua.About Dr. Ralph GigliottiRalph is Assistant Vice President for Strategic Programs in the Office of University Strategy and Director of the Center for Organizational Leadership at Rutgers University, where he provides executive leadership for a portfolio of signature academic leadership programs, consultation services, and research initiatives. He engages directly with academic and administrative leaders in strengthening the Center’s role as a hub for leadership development research and initiatives. He also serves as a part-time faculty member in the Department of Communication, PhD Program in Higher Education, and Department of Family Medicine and Community Health at Robert Wood Johnson Medical School.Marcy and Ralph just edited the book:  Using Inventories and Assessments to Enhance Leadership DevelopmentQuote From This Episode"What we've learned is that assessments add tremendous value if used with intentionality, if linked with some broader theoretical frame, if facilitated appropriately, and effectively by individuals who are qualified to help with the assessment and the debriefing."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodePersonality Assessment: The Ice Cream Personality TestMovie: Persona - The Dark Truth Behind Personality AssessmentsBook: Caste by Isabel WilkersonBook: Think Again by Adam GrantBook: Upstream by Dan HeathAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Candace Brunette-Debassige is a Mushkego Cree iskwew scholar originally from Peetabeck Treaty 9 Territory. She is an Assistant Professor in Critical Policy, Equity, and Leadership Studies in the Faculty of Education at Western University. Her research centers on advancing the liberatory needs of Indigenous Peoples in Euro-Western colonial educational spaces. Beyond her scholarship, Candace brings extensive leadership experience in Indigenous education at the K-12 and postsecondary levels. She was the first Indigenous Education Advisor for the Thames Valley District School Board from 2009-2012, and was the Director of Indigenous Student Services at Western from 2012-2017. At Western, she also served as Acting Vice-Provost/Associate Vice President for the Office of Indigenous Initiatives, and Special Advisor to the Provost, from 2018 to 2021.Resources Mentioned in This Episode Documentary - Inendi Podcast - Unreserved Book - Decolonizing and Indigenizing Education in CanadaReport - Truth and Reconciliation Commission of CanadaQuotes From This Episode"There were many, many indigenous peoples that were forced to attend residential schools in our country for over 150 years. So it's generations, generations, and generations of people within particular families and communities were forced legislatively forced to attend these schools.""My grandmother was apprehended by the Royal Mounted Police (RCMP)... she was physically removed from her home at the age of seven. She was forced to attend this school, which was an Anglican school; in her situation, she was prohibited from speaking Cree. And she was taught that to be Cree, to be indigenous, was backward. It was savage, it was uncivilized...the purpose of residential schools was assimilating indigenous peoples into the dominant society.""When you point out the problem, you become the problem." "In my work, I have to lead with subjectivity. That's what brings me credibility when I'm working with the indigenous community. The first thing people are going to ask me is, 'Who are you? Where do you come from?' And, and then I have to develop that relationship. And that relationship is developed through sharing our stories and coming from our experiences."About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Chellie Spiller, (hapū Matawhaiti Iwitea, Ngāti Kahungunu ki Wairoa), is based in Auckland and is a professor at the University of Waikato Management School.Chellie is a passionate and committed advocate for Māori Business development. Her vision is to create relational wellbeing and wealth across spiritual, environmental, social, cultural, and economic dimensions, creating transformation in people, enabling them to claim their rightful place in the world, and embodying their sense of self.Chellie’s leadership qualities are nourished by her academic achievements. Chellie was a Fulbright Senior Scholar at the Harvard Kennedy School and the University of Arizona. She is a recipient of a Research Excellence Award, Dame Mira Szászy Māori Alumni Award, and National Māori Academic Excellence Award. She is passionate about teaching on the postgraduate diploma in business administration (Māori development) where she specializes in management and governance.Quotes From This Episode"I adamantly believe we cannot shoehorn indigenous leadership theory into Western theories. The best that Western theories can do is illuminate some aspect of indigenous leadership, because indigenous leadership is a whole belief system, a whole philosophy/ontology - it’s a way of life.""The invitation of indigenous holistic thinking is to enter a spherical world that’s more rounded, where we show up as whole people. And I guess it is that world of both/and. It’s more interwoven, relational - about the group relationships, group harmony, and group accomplishments, and process orientation.""It comes back to our deep sense of belonging. Belonging, not only to our families, our friends, our communities, but belonging to a place and belonging to the world and to the planet as well. So it really deepens this idea of what it means to belong.""So we make the difference between sphere intelligence and square intelligence -  square intelligence being cells and spreadsheets - that rational logic that can really dictate our path. Instead of stepping back and pausing, and just having that time to reflect and look around and tap into the wisdom within us as well."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeChellie's WebsiteTED Talk - Wayfinding LeadershipBook - Wayfinding LeadershipBook - Kazuo Ishiguro, and It’s Klara in the SunBook - Midnight LibraryPoem - The Mystery by AmerginI am the wind that breathes upon the seaI am the wave of the oceanI am the murmur of the billowsI am the ox of the seven combatsI am the vulture upon the rocksI am a beam of the sunI am the fairest of plantsI am a wild boar in valourI am a salmon in the waterI am a lake in the plainI am a word of scienceI am the point of the lance of battleI am the God who created in the head the fireWho is it who throws light into the meeting on the mountain?Who announces the ages of the moon?Who teaches the place where couches the sun? (If not I?)About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Professor Sean Hannah, Colonel US Army (Ret) is an experienced senior leader, scholar, and leader development expert. He studies, teaches, and consults on exemplary leadership, leader development, business ethics, strategy and strategic thinking, and the building of high-performing teams and organizations. Prior to his appointment to the Wilson Chair at Wake Forest he served 25 years in the US Army, retiring as a Colonel. He served as the Director of the Center for the Army Profession and Ethic, and the Director of Leadership and Management Programs, both at West Point. He served in command and staff positions in Infantry units in Europe, Cuba, Panama, Southwest Asia, and the United States. In the Pentagon on 9/11, after the attack, he was reassigned to lead the reconstitution of the organization sustaining the highest casualty level, and its multibillion-dollar operation.  Sean is a Fellow in both the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology and the Association for Psychological Science. He is the Editor in Chief of the Journal of Leadership and Organizational Studies, sits on the editorial boards of three major journals, and has published over 60 papers on leadership in top journals such as Academy of Management Journal, Academy of Management Review, & Journal of Applied Psychology. He has conducted over 600 executive education and consulting engagements in the US, Europe, and Asia, with clients amongst the world's most successful firms such as Microsoft, Deloitte, DOW, GE, 7-11, IBM, UTC, P&G, Wells Fargo, & Morgan Stanley.Selects Publication by Sean Google ScholarMoral maturation and moral conation: A capacity approach to explaining moral thought and actionMoral potency: Building the capacity for character-based leadershipQuotes From This Episode“Ethics should be a team sport in an organization. It shouldn’t just be some leaders sitting know, the grand leader making the decision. Often these tough ones have so many pieces, and so many elements, and so much complexity that it’s good to get everybody’s perspective in the room.”“Your team is always better than one, and leaders who think that they’re going to step up there and lead on their own are fools... you’re not maximizing the talents, skills, abilities, & knowledge of your team.”“We found that ethical leadership and ethical culture, was a key predictor of moral efficacy and that soldiers had much more confidence to act morally when they had an ethical leader.”“One of the toughest things in leadership research is doing leader development research. Because it’s hard work. It requires having a sample that you can track over an extended period of time; it requires having some sort of a control or comparison group so that you can show the treatment group really did change...and that’s tough work.”Resources Mentioned In This EpisodeHis Excellency: George Washington by EllisAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Helle Bank Jorgensen is the CEO of Competent Boards, which offers the global online ESG Competent Boards Certificate and Designation Program with a faculty of over 100 renowned international board members, executives, and experts.She has a 30-year track record in turning Environment, Social, Governance (ESG), Climate, and Sustainability risks into innovative and profitable business opportunities. She has worked with many global Fortune 500 board members and executives, as well as smaller companies and investors.Helle serves on:His Royal Highness Prince of Wales A4S (Accounting for Sustainability) Global Expert Panel;World Economic Forum (WEF) Expert Network for Corporate Governance, Leadership, and Emerging Multinationals;The Non-Financial Digitisation Working Group of the Impact Management Project (IMP);The Reuters Panel of Expert Judges for the Responsible Business Awards;Canadian Climate Governance Experts - a Commonwealth Climate & Law InitiativeHelle was the creator of the world’s first Green Account based on lifecycle assessment and the world’s first Integrated Report, the first integrated responsible supply chain management system, and was the principal organizer for the CEO/Investor-network for Business Ethics and Non-Financial Reporting. She led the improvement of investor communication for global companies and has worked on Natural Capital Accounting for IFC/World Bank.In 2020 she was awarded the Global Impact Award and named one of "5 people in ESG to look out for."  She is a regular keynote speaker and author of many thought-leading articles and books.She is a business lawyer and state-authorized public accountant (CPA) by training and holds a Master’s degree in Business Administration and Auditing.  She is a former PwC audit and advisory partner in Denmark and the US leading Sustainability & Climate Practices. Quotes From This Episode"Unfortunately, there’s a long way from what was committed to what is actually funded. It’s so easy to come up with the commitments and the nice speeches, but it's another thing to do it.""(Board members) need the mindset....the whole reason why we are educating boards of directors and executives is that we need to have that understanding.""I’m writing a book, and it’s going to be called Stewards of the Future. In my mind, the board of directors has that responsibility. They have to be asking the CEO/management team, 'What are we doing? Do we have enough budgeted?'""We need a plan and we need that plan right now. And we need to follow up on that plan. We need to report on that plan. We need to tell our stakeholders about our plan."Resource Mentioned in This EpisodeFuture HistoryAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Kat Schrier is an Associate Professor, Director of the Play Innovation Lab, and Director of the Games and Emerging Media program at Marist College. She is the author of We the Gamers: How Games Teach Ethics & Civics, published by Oxford University Press (2021), and Knowledge Games, published by Johns Hopkins University Press (2016). She has previously edited two book series, Ethics and Game Design and Learning, Education, & Games. She was a Belfer Fellow with the ADL's Center for Technology & Society, and she is co-PI for a Templeton Grant on designing VR games for empathy. Prior to joining the Marist College faculty, she worked as a media producer at Scholastic, Nickelodeon, BrainPOP, and ESI Design. She has a doctorate from Columbia University, a master’s from MIT, and a bachelor’s from Amherst College.Connecting with KatKat's Website - https://www.karenschrier.comQuotes From This Episode"Even Fornite, Among Us, Minecraft, are games where you're managing your resources, communicating with others, and you might be building stories...and these are games where people are really practicing civic discourse.""I think the big takeaway is that we are learning when we play games. We are learning through play. It doesn't matter if it's specifically an educational game, or it's a game that is like Minecraft or Fortnite.""I think that games are really helping us to practice ethics, ethical thinking, and ethical decision making."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeQuandaryFable IIIFallout 3Pandemic (board game)Among UsMinecraftFortniteMission USInternational Game Developers AssociationWe the People on Netflix.Publications by KatWe the Gamers: How Games Teach Ethics & CivicsDesigning OurselvesKnowledge GamesAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Jim Kouzes is the co-author of the award-winning, best-selling book The Leadership Challenge and more than a dozen other books on leadership including the 2021 book Everyday People, Extraordinary Leadership. He is also a Fellow of the Doerr Institute for New Leaders at Rice University. The Wall Street Journal named Jim one of the ten best executive educators in the U.S. and he has received the Distinguished Contribution to Workplace Learning and Performance Award from the American Society for Training and Development (ASTD) among many other professional honors.Quotes from This Episode"And we so we asked the question, 'what do you look for and admire in a new leader, someone whose direction you would willingly follow?' and the number one quality was 'honesty.' The number two quality or characteristic people look for and desire in a leader was 'competent.' Honest and competent are the two most important ingredients.""So what this data tells us, you add it all up, and you say, 'Yes, sure, we can write about CEOs. And we can write about famous leaders.' But those aren't the most important people, individuals look to as a model for how they would lead. The most important leaders are those people who are closest to us, whether it's a parent, or a teacher, or coach when we're younger, or an immediate supervisor at work. And that's really important for people to keep in mind. When you're leading, and you're someone's immediate manager, you could be their role model for leadership. The same goes for parents.""It's true that leaders need to be able to articulate a vision of the future...But if it's going to be something that people want to follow, then they have to see themselves in the picture."Jim's WebsiteBook - Everyday People, Extraordinary LeadershipBook - The Leadership ChallengeWebsite - https://www.leadershipchallenge.comResources Mentioned in This EpisodeBook - High Conflict by Amanda RipleyPodcast - No Stupid QuestionsPodcast - Freakonomics Podcast -  Revisionist HistoryAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Beth Zemsky MAEd, LICSW comes to her work out of her continued commitment to engage people in learning activities that move them to understand critical social and cultural issues. Building on best practice approaches, Beth specializes in intercultural organizational development with organizations working towards racial justice, social change, and structural transformation including foundations, non-profits, educational, health, faith-based, and social change organizations. Beth has over 35 years of experience working as a consultant, community organizer, psychotherapist, educator, and organizational leader including serving as the principle of Zemsky and Associates Consulting, a psychotherapist at Family & Children’s Service, founding Director of the LGBTQ Programs Office, Supervisor of the Diversity Institute, and Coordinator of Leadership Development & Organizational Effectiveness at the University of Minnesota. She also served as former national co-chair of the Board of Directors of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force. She is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, certified clinical trauma professional, and certified workplace mediator.Beth was chosen to be Grand Marshall of the Twin Cities LGBTQ+ Pride, and she was awarded Quorum's Lifetime Achievement Award and OutFront MN’s Legacy Award for service to the LGBTQ community. In addition, Beth was awarded a Bush Leadership Fellowship to study organizational development of social change organizations, and she was the recipient of the 2016 IDI Intercultural Award for commitment to social justice. Quotes from This Episode"I'm Jewish, and there's a piece in Jewish mysticism called 'Tikkun Olam...Tikkun is 'to heal or repair,' and Olam means 'the world.' So the quote literally is "to heal the world." And so this is a super important concept for me...there's is sort of a perfect crystal of God and godliness in everyone and everything. And that when the world was created, that perfect crystal of God was fragmented, in everyone and everything. And our job is to find that perfect crystal of God and godliness and everyone and everything and bring the world back into wholeness...even when somebody is in opposition. And back in the day, it was Anthony Fauci, who was in opposition, that we needed to convince to be a leader on HIV ( it's funny how things cycle). Even when people are in opposition, how to know that they have that little fragment of godliness in them. So it's never seeing somebody as an enemy.""What does that mean to have activism that is centered on love, passion, commitment, and authenticity? And how do I connect with other folks? ""I talk a lot about is this sort of concept of "universal design." So universal design from the disability rights movement is the idea if you sort of hold the people who have the least access at the center of your transformational change, you actually create something better for everybody. "Beth's WebsiteWebsite - www.bethzemsky.comResources Mentioned in This EpisodePodcast - GastropodDocumentary - Woman in MotionAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Robert Livingston is a social psychologist and one of the nation’s leading experts on the science underlying bias and racism in organizations. For two decades, he has served as a diversity consultant to scores of Fortune 500 companies, public-sector agencies, and non-profit organizations. Prior to joining the Harvard Kennedy School in 2015, he held professorships at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management, and the University of Sussex, where he was the chair of the organizational behavior area as well as the founder and faculty director of Centre for Leadership, Ethics, and Diversity (LEAD). His research on race, implicit bias, leadership, and social justice has been published in top-tier academic journals such as the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Academy of Management Journal, Psychological Science, and Leadership Quarterly. Dr. Livingston’s work has also been featured in popular press outlets such as The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review. His article “How to Promote Racial Equity in the Workplace” was the winner of the 2020 Warren Bennis Prize, awarded to the best article on leadership published in Harvard Business Review each year. His groundbreaking and influential approach to combatting racism is detailed in his newly-released book The Conversation: How Seeking and Speaking the Truth about Racism Can Radically Transform Individuals and Organizations published by Penguin Random House. The book debuted as a national bestseller in February 2021, and has received high praise from media outlets, book critics, and industry executives. In his spare time, he enjoys jazz, wine and whiskey tasting, gastronomy, philosophy, interior design, real estate investing, and hiking. Quotes from The Conversation"When it comes to performing mental gymnastics most of us are Olympic Athletes.""While many Whites believe that color grants them no special privilege, almost no white person believes that the color of their skin is a burdensome cross to bear.""If we summarize the origins of racism (and sexism) in a single word, it is power. It is both the desire to maintain power and the fear of losing power.""A more secure and happy person is a more tolerant person. You can reduce prejudice simply by feeling good, calm, and secure."“Racism occurs when individuals or institutions show more favorable evaluation or treatment of an individual or groups based on race or ethnicity.”"Prejudice is an attitude-a set of internal beliefs, feelings, and preferences. Discrimination refers to actual behaviors, decisions, and outcomes."Dr. Livingston's WebsiteWebsite: Mentioned in This EpisodeArticle: Scholarship reconsidered: Priorities of the professoriate by BoyerBook:  Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan & Lisa LaheyBook: The Sum of Us: What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together by Heather McGee About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Barbara Kellerman is the James MacGregor Burns Lecturer in Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Kellerman received her B.A. from Sarah Lawrence College and three degrees from Yale University: an M.A. in Russian and East European Studies and both an M.Phil., and Ph.D. in Political Science. She was awarded a Danforth Fellowship and three Fulbright Fellowships. Kellerman is a co-founder of the International Leadership Association (ILA).Quotes from This Episode"Every time I speak about leadership, I speak equally about followership and the setting with which this leadership and followership takes place.""We know that there are some people who are driven and obsessive who have this life force. But they're not widely studied...they're not at all studied. They're not written about. And yet they often change the world.""I certainly take the point of view that the lust to try to legitimize an oppressed group is a good thing. There are other lusts such as the lust for power, which is probably almost always not so wonderful because it implies power over someone.""Leaders who lust seem to have an energy, a life force, a zeal, and a dedication to a particular goal. And we, we look at them with a measure of awe."Dr. Kellerman's Website/Selected BooksWebsite: Barbara Kellerman New Book: The Enablers: How Team Trump Flunked the Pandemic and Failed AmericaBook: Leaders Who Lust: Power Money Sex Success Legitimacy LegacyBook: Professionalizing Leadership Book: Leadership: Essential Selections on Power, Authority, and Influence - Book: Followership Book: Bad Leadership Book: Leadership: Multidisciplinary Perspectives About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Dr. Joanne Ciulla is a professor and Director of the Institute for Ethical Leadership at Rutgers University. She is a pioneer in the field of leadership ethics. Before joining Rutgers, she held the Coston Family Chair in Leadership and Ethics at the Jepson School of Leadership Studies (University of Richmond), where she was a founding faculty member of the first degree-granting liberal arts school of leadership studies in the world. She has held academic appointments at Harvard Business School, The Wharton School, LaSalle University, and numerous visiting appointments outside the U.S. She sits on the editorial boards of The Business Ethics Quarterly and The Leadership Quarterly.Professor Ciulla is the recipient of the Lifetime Achievement Award for Outstanding Contribution to Scholarship in Business Ethics from the Society for Business Ethics, the Legacy Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Leadership Association, The Eminent Scholar Award from the Network of Leadership Scholars in the Academy of Management, The Lifetime Achievement Award for Service from the Society for Business Ethics, The Master Teacher Award from The Wheatley Institution and the Society for Business Ethics, The Outstanding Faculty Award from the Virginia State Council of Higher Education, and The Distinguished Educator Award from the University of Richmond.Connecting with Dr. CiullaDr. Ciulla's webpage at Rutgers University Select Publications by Dr. CiullaDr. Joanne Ciulla at Google ScholarLeadership and the Power of ResentmentSearching for Mandela: The insights of biographical researchThe Working Life: The Promise of Betrayal of Modern WorkEthics: The Heart of LeadershipQuotes From This EpisodePhilosopher Max Scheler "describes what he calls the 'arriviste.' And he's really describing Hitler...he describes the social phenomena that allow for leaders like that to emerge and use resentment as a way of gaining power.""If you think of what leaders do, they're people who take responsibility for's fundamental for moral accountability."(Nelson Mandela wrote) 'they don't see me. They see me as a saint. But I'm only a saint who is a sinner who keeps on trying.' And so I think the same could be said of someone like Gandhi or Martin Luther King. They become iconic leaders, they embody a cause. And to some extent, they're no longer themselves anymore."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeAesop's FablesAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Christie Navarro serves as the Director of the Center for Leadership Learning (CLL) at the University of California, Davis.  She has been a part of the UC Davis community for 16 years, with 15 of those years leading the CLL.  Prior to her tenure at UC Davis, Christie served as the California state representative for the college admission testing organization ACT, as a regional outreach coordinator for UC Merced Early Academic Outreach Program, and as a case manager for Court Appointed Special Advocates (CASA) of Tulare County. Christie earned her Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Master of Arts in Higher Educational Leadership from California State University, Sacramento. As a leadership educator, Christie infuses identity development, inclusivity, and social justice, and change into her teachings and is passionate about supporting students on their leadership journey. Christie serves as a co-chair of the National Leadership Symposium (NLS).About the 2021 National Leadership Symposium  Visit the NLS Website to learn more!About the 2021 NLS SymposiumDisruption by Design: Co-Creating Our Approach to Leadership EducationMonday, July 12 – Wednesday, July 14, 2021 - 12 pm-5 pm (EST)Registration Cost= $225.00Graduate student rate = $99 (regardless of membership or institution)Quotes From This Episode"The National Leadership Symposium is not a conference... it is a small cohort of leadership educators from all around the nation that come together for an intensive learning experience.""This is an area I'm very passionate about: bringing diverse voices to the table in our field. I think that there's been a lack of opportunity for scholars from different backgrounds and different lived experiences, especially when it's trying to advance our conversations around what leadership is.""With the pandemic and the long-needed conversation around equity, racial justice, and social justice...we can't go back to what we were doing in 2019. And this is me just humbly trying to put that idea out there for our field. How are we going to adjust, shift, and change to ensure that we are representing, hearing, and inviting all communities to the table?"Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall Apart  by Alicia Garza  Engaging in the Leadership Process: Identity, Capacity, and Efficacy for College Students by Kathy Guthrie, Cameron C. Beatty, and Erica R. Wiborg About The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
Brent Cusher, Ph.D., is an Associate Professor in the Department of Leadership and American Studies at Christopher Newport University, where he teaches courses in the Leadership Studies and Honors programs. His teaching and research interests are on the intersection of leadership and the history of political philosophy, specifically focusing on models of leadership in classical Greek philosophy. His work can be found in the Journal of Politics, the Journal of Leadership Education, Law, Culture, and the Humanities, and The Political Science Reviewer. He has held appointments at Carleton College, Rhodes College, and the University of Alaska (Anchorage). He and his wife live in Newport News, VA with their children, Violet, Zooey, and Axel.Mark A. Menaldo, Ph.D., is the Department Head and Associate Professor of Liberal Studies. He started at Texas A&M-Commerce in 2017 after spending seven years at Texas A&M International University. He attended Colorado College as an undergraduate student, and it was here that Menaldo discovered the art of close reading and the power of interdisciplinary scholarship. He took these skills with him to Michigan State University where he earned his Ph.D. in Political Science. When he is not teaching, he can usually be found drinking coffee at the local cafe, reading a book, or talking to friends. He and his wife are the proud parents of three children, Oliver, Henry, and Ava. They live in Greenville, TX.Book - Philosophy and Leadership: Three Classical Models and CasesConnecting with Mark and BrentBrent Cusher Mark MenaldoQuotes From This Episode"We see philosophy as one big conversation amongst individuals across time. What we want to do is invite people to that conversation.""I don't mind putting all of my cards on the table in saying that I think Plato is the most interesting philosopher that there was.""I became a philosophy student because I read the Republic. There's something transhistorical about the way he invites you to the conversation.""I think if you read our book, and are at the same time steeped in leadership studies literature - and this is a bold claim - you're going to start to understand why Leadership Studies sounds a little cacophonous."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodePlato: the RepublicAristotle: The Nicomachean EthicsMachiavelli: The PrinceNetflix: Inside Bill's BrainAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite 
As one of the inaugural faculty members of the Jepson School of Leadership Studies at the University of Richmond, one of the first institutions in the world with a multidisciplinary faculty devoted to the study of leadership, Dr. Gill Hickman joined forces with her colleagues to build a leadership studies program from the ground up. She is a former board member of the International Leadership Association and the recipient of several awards, including the ILA's Leadership Legacy Lifetime Achievement Award and the University of Richmond's Distinguished Educator Award. She has authored many publications including Leading Organizations: Perspectives for a New Era and Leading Change in Multiple Contexts, Invisible Leadership, and her most recent book, When Leaders Face Personal Crisis: The Human Side of Leadership.  Connecting with GillOn LinkedInWebsiteQuotes From This Episode"As soon as they said the buses were integrated...I thought 'I'm going to try this'...and I got on with a friend and we sat on the front seat. And people started talking about us and saying we didn't belong there. And literally, a woman hit me with her umbrella and told me to move and get off. And I did not do it.""The first day they said the lunch counters were integrated in Birmingham (unbeknownst to my parents) I decided, I'm going to sit down at the lunch counter.""Georgia Sorenson and I were at the Kellogg Leadership Studies project and we were all talking about leadership with James McGregor Burns, and all the other scholars, and people were arguing about the leader and what the role of the leader is, and on and on... Georgia and I looked at each other and said, 'we're kind of sick of this argument. We're all focused on the leader. What about, what about everybody else? What about people being inspired because they really believe in what they're doing?' And that's that was the start of our conversation about the common purpose as the leader, in other words, invisible leadership."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeArticle: Invisible LeadershipBook: Firms of Endearment Orchestra: Orpheus Book: A Promised Land by President ObamaAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite
David Rae is the President & Co-Founder of 503 Media & Events - an organization that believes in moments, not things.  The 503 team is comprised of creative technologists and plays in the digital, strategy, brand content, and experiential space. David is also the Curator of TEDxPortland which is focused on connecting thinkers and doers committed to "ideas worth spreading" in the Rose City. Connecting with David503 Media & Events WebsiteTEDxPortland WebsiteLinkedIn: David RaeQuotes From This Episode"I’m a creative at heart. I love art.  I love experience.  I love storytelling. And a drug for me is creating indelible moments for people to enjoy. For people to collect moments and not things. So I’ve always had a passion for putting people in the room and creating an arena or vessel in which people can connect and get to the core of meaningful relationships. That’s just, that’s the juice for me.""We're in this fun office space. And I have pennants all over in the rafters of my office...and one of the pennants is 'figure it out.' So I look at 'figure it out' every day. I look at 'let it go.' I look at 'worry will trap you.' I look right above me is 'give a damn.' I mean,  I just need those kinds of motivational quips and quotes to keep me trucking.""I wake up in the morning and ask these questions of myself: 1) Does it serve the team? 2) Does it serve the business? 3) Does it serve the community? and 4) What can I personally do better to help in each of those?""TEDxPortland is a lightning bolt of joy and ideas and inspiration for this town. The city has embraced it from day one."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeeCornell - Diversity & Inclusion certificateGreenlights by Matthew McConaugheyMasterclassAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Today, ILA is the largest worldwide community committed to leadership scholarship, development, and practice. Connect with Your Host, Scott AllenScott's other Podcast - The Captovation Podcast
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