The Retreat Leaders Podcast

In this uplifting and practical episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by UK-based performance coach and former professional dancer Lucy Dutton to talk about something not enough retreat leaders are addressing: how to lead retreats without sacrificing your own well-being. Lucy shares her powerful journey from the high-stakes world of professional dance to wellness and peak performance coaching—and how her deep understanding of energy, values, and leadership now helps retreat leaders avoid burnout. Together, they explore: ✅ Why energy management matters more than location or food ✅ The hidden danger of leading retreats while running on empty ✅ How to use your personal values as a decision-making compass ✅ Why your environment directly impacts your energy ✅ The difference between holding space and emotionally oversharing ✅ How to stay inspired and grounded even during high-demand retreats Whether you're planning your first retreat or you're a seasoned pro, this conversation will help you lead from a place of calm, clarity, and conviction. About Lucy: Lucy J Dutton is a certified peak performance coach and speaker , international best selling author with 30 years of experience coaching entrepreneurs on productivity, goal setting, and transforming limiting beliefs. She empowers female holistic service based entrepreneurs and small business owners to become peak performers in life and business. So that their business grows easily, and they experience fulfilment and joy in their personal life. Lucy was a professional dancer for 10 years and has been an entrepreneur and coach for over 3 decades.  Despite the fact that she used to be painfully shy, she found her voice by pushing through the awkward and uncomfortable times. Gradually building her self-confidence and self-belief. She has founded her own Holistic Peak Performance Coaching business to complement the health coaching she was already doing. With health and fitness being the foundation of everything she does.   Learn more: https://lucyjdutton.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ------- Timestamps Guest Introduction: Lucy Dutton’s Background (00:01:43) Lucy shares her journey from professional dancer to peak performance coach. The Demands of Dancing and Self-Care (00:04:08) Discussion about the physical and emotional demands of dancing and the importance of self-care. Retreat Leaders’ Energy Drain (00:05:35) Shannon describes how retreat leaders often neglect their own well-being, leading to exhaustion. The Importance of Energy and Daily Practices (00:07:32) Lucy explains the significance of maintaining personal energy and implementing daily self-care practices. Understanding and Aligning with Core Values (00:09:09) Lucy discusses discovering personal values and how misalignment can affect retreat experiences. Creating Supportive Environments (00:10:24) Lucy outlines the importance of physical, social, and informational environments for retreat leaders. Avoiding Negative Influences and Comparison (00:11:55) Shannon emphasizes avoiding negative news, unsupportive people, and comparison with other retreat leaders. Deep Dive into Values and Retreat Alignment (00:15:50) Lucy explains how knowing your values helps in choosing the right retreat venues and collaborators. Energy as the Key to Retreat Success (00:19:22) Shannon highlights that a leader’s energy can make or break a retreat, outweighing venue or food quality. How to Work with Lucy Dutton (00:20:14) Lucy shares how listeners can connect with her for coaching and personal development. Episode Wrap-Up and Resources (00:21:10) Shannon thanks Lucy, mentions additional resources, and closes the episode.

In this heart-filled and high-impact episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with luxury couples retreat host Lesley Jordan to explore the real keys to retreat success-and spoiler alert: it’s not just about the perfect venue or a pretty website. From her beginnings as a travel agent to launching powerful, profitable retreats for couples of all backgrounds, Lesley shares how mentorship, strategic pricing, and relationship-first marketing changed the game for her. Together, Shannon and Lesley dig into: How to actually pick the right business coach (hint: ask about profit) Why building real connections beats flashy marketing What it takes to design inclusive retreats that sell out and transform lives The truth about vetting mentors in a saturated online space Lesley’s upcoming LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples retreats focused on love, intimacy, and reconnection If you’re building a retreat brand that centers around depth, authenticity, and aligned growth—this one’s for you. Learn more: www.lavishcouplesretreats.com    The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ---------------- Timestamps: Introducing Leslie Jordan (00:01:00) Shannon introduces guest Leslie Jordan, highlighting her energy and inviting her to share her background. Leslie’s Journey to Retreats (00:01:35) Leslie shares her transition from travel agent to retreat curator, focusing on luxury retreats for couples and women. The Power of Coaching in Retreat Business (00:02:25) Discussion on meeting through a coach, the importance of having a coach, and the loneliness of entrepreneurship. Finding the Right Coach (00:03:16) Leslie describes her experience with different coaches, learning about business models, pricing, and defining her retreat offerings. Building Relationships Over Pretty Marketing (00:04:00) Leslie explains the importance of building genuine relationships with clients, not just relying on attractive websites. Creating Lavish Couples Retreats (00:05:02) Leslie talks about launching her own retreat business, focusing on reconnection and intimacy for various types of couples. The Value of Multiple Coaches (00:05:24) Shannon and Leslie discuss the benefits of having more than one coach with different expertise. Marketing vs. Selling & Relationship Building (00:06:02) Emphasis on turning marketing activities into real relationships and the changing landscape of the retreat industry. Learning Strategy and Pricing (00:06:52) Leslie shares how her coaches helped her with sales strategies, pricing, and repeat business. Choosing Experienced Coaches (00:07:29) Shannon stresses the importance of working with experienced coaches who understand the retreat business deeply. Treating Retreats as a Business (00:09:00) Discussion on treating retreats as a business model, not just an event, and integrating it with other offerings. Overcoming Fear and Stagnation (00:09:18) Leslie recounts how the wrong coaching held her back and how the right coaches helped her move forward. Vetting Coaches and Profitability (00:10:36) Advice on vetting coaches, asking about their experience, and ensuring they understand profitability in retreats. Industry Trends and Red Flags (00:11:37) Warning about inexperienced coaches and the importance of understanding all aspects of the retreat business. Profitability is Essential (00:11:59) Shannon and Leslie agree that breaking even is not a sustainable business model for retreats. Attending Retreats as Research (00:12:31) Leslie shares the value of attending retreats, especially those hosted by your coach, to learn logistics and marketing. The Importance of Being an Attendee (00:13:11) Shannon emphasizes that aspiring retreat leaders should attend retreats themselves to gain perspective. Community and Networking Benefits (00:15:07) Discussion on the community, networking, and collaborations that come from being part of a coaching group. Ongoing Value of Retreat Attendance (00:16:24) Leslie and Shannon discuss the ongoing benefits of attending retreats, including support, networking, and personal growth. Leslie’s Upcoming Retreats (00:17:18) Leslie shares details about her upcoming retreats for LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples, and her inclusive approach. How to Connect with Leslie (00:18:52) Leslie provides her website and social media handles for listeners to learn more or join her retreats.

Shannon Jamail, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky come together on this special episode to officially announce the Retreat Industry Forum happening May 14–17, 2026 in Colorado. In this conversation, they share the vision behind the event, why this gathering is unlike anything else in the retreat industry, and what attendees can expect-from powerful keynotes and interactive workshops to a VIP experience designed for deeper strategy and connection. The big news? The interest list opens TODAY (October 15th) for 10 days only! Those on the list will have first dibs at VIP tickets before they’re released to the general public on November 1st. If you’ve been waiting for your chance to learn from top retreat leaders and transform the way you build, market, and profit from retreats, now’s the time to get in early Get on the list: retreatindustryforum.com      The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in Colorado  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ----- Timestamps Guest Introductions & Excitement (00:01:16) Shannon welcomes Aaron Hague and Alison Kaye, expressing excitement about a big announcement. How the Collaboration Began (00:01:40) Speakers discuss how their partnership started, referencing a seed planted in May 2025 in Champagne, France. How They Met & Initial Connections (00:02:06) The group shares how they met online, became aligned, and eventually met in person at a retreat. Industry Frustrations & Shared Values (00:03:39) Speakers discuss frustrations with the retreat industry’s mindset and their shared business-focused approach. Business Perspective on Retreats (00:05:02) Alison emphasizes treating retreats as serious business ventures, not just fun getaways. Aaron’s Background & Industry Disruption (00:06:01) Aaron shares her business background and how she became an “accidental disruptor” in the retreat industry. Profit, Impact, and Industry Mindset (00:09:08) The group discusses the false separation of profit and impact, and the prevalence of scarcity mindset. Retreats Beyond Wellness & Industry Vision (00:09:55) Aaron highlights that retreats exist beyond wellness/spirituality and introduces their vision to elevate the entire industry. Announcement: Retreat Industry Forum (00:11:38) The team announces the Retreat Industry Forum, a three-day event in Colorado to help retreat leaders build profitable businesses. Event Details & Waitlist Information (00:12:44) Aaron explains the event dates, waitlist process, VIP tickets, and opportunities for vendors and sponsors. What to Expect at the Forum (00:14:28) Details on the forum’s content, including sharing proven strategies and bringing in industry experts. Encouragement to Join & Industry Movement (00:16:35) Speakers encourage listeners to join the event, emphasizing collaboration, industry growth, and the importance of being “in the room.” The Power of Saying Yes & Collaboration (00:18:42) They reflect on how collaboration started by saying yes to opportunities and the importance of networking. Closing & Call to Action (00:20:07) Final reminders to join the event, check the website, and stay tuned for more details. Podcast Outro (00:20:25) Shannon thanks listeners, encourages subscribing, and shares where to find more resources. Are you happy with the results?

You do not have to run yourself ragged to host powerful, profitable retreats, and this episode is proof. In this honest and hilarious conversation, Shannon Jamail sits down with Anna VanAgtmael, founder of Wandering Roots and host of 22 retreats since 2018, to explore how retreat leaders can ditch the pressure, drop the people-pleasing, and build a business that’s both meaningful and sustainable. They dive into: The biggest mistakes new retreat leaders make (and how to avoid them) Pricing with confidence and energetic alignment Why less on the itinerary often leads to more transformation How to stop comparing your retreat to everyone else’s Whether you're an aspiring host or a seasoned retreat pro, this conversation will give you the permission slip you didn’t know you needed: you don’t have to do it all to make it amazing.   Connect with Anna: https://www.yourwanderingroots.com/  Instagram: @yourwanderingroots    Special Offer: Build a profitable retreat in one minute per day: https://retreat.yourwanderingroots.com/    The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify ---------------------------------- Timestamps: Introduction & Host Welcome (00:00:02) Shannon introduces the podcast, its purpose, and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews. Guest Introduction: Anna’s Background (00:01:13) Anna is introduced; she shares her experience hosting retreats and helping others plan profitable ones. Anna’s Journey to Retreats (00:02:23) Anna describes her transition from lab manager to retreat leader after a car accident and discovering yoga. Current Retreat Structure & Ideal Guests (00:03:46) Anna explains her current retreat schedule, types of retreats, and the demographics of her typical guests. Transitioning & Scaling Back Retreats (00:05:00) Discussion about scaling back the number of retreats to focus on quality and personal fulfillment. Avoiding Burnout & Preserving Passion (00:06:04) Anna and Shannon discuss the importance of not overworking and maintaining excitement for each retreat. Profitability Without Pressure (00:07:19) Exploring how retreats can be profitable without feeling pressured to do everything or mimic others. Retreats: Business vs. Expensive Hobby (00:09:29) Emphasis on treating retreats as a business, not just a passion project or costly hobby. Letting Go of People-Pleasing & Overstuffed Itineraries (00:11:03) Advice on avoiding over-scheduling and people-pleasing, and ensuring retreats have free time and focus. Pricing, Money Beliefs, and Value (00:13:13) Discussion on pricing retreats, overcoming limiting beliefs about money, and ensuring energetic alignment with pricing. Gender Differences in Pricing & Money Mindset (00:15:04) Comparison of how men and women price retreats, and the impact of cultural money beliefs. Profit, Burnout, and Lifestyle Alignment (00:17:24) Importance of pricing for sustainability and creating a lifestyle you enjoy, not just covering costs. Common Mistakes & Lessons Learned (00:18:34) Anna shares mistakes like trying to do everything alone, not arriving early, and the value of support staff. Arriving Early & Staying After Retreats (00:20:15) Best practices for arriving before and staying after retreats to ensure smooth experiences and self-care. Self-Care for Retreat Leaders (00:21:34) The importance of post-retreat downtime, rest, and self-care for leaders after guests depart. How to Connect with Anna (00:22:40) Anna shares her websites for those interested in attending or planning retreats with her.

In this solo Q&A episode, Shannon Jamail tackles the 12 most frequently asked questions from aspiring and experienced retreat leaders alike. From knowing when you’re truly ready to host a retreat, to choosing the right venue, pricing for profit, and marketing without sounding salesy, Shannon covers it all with no-fluff, straight-shooting advice. Whether you're just starting out or looking to sharpen your strategy, these questions are the ones that come up in her DMs, workshops, and mastermind calls every single week. With years of experience as a retreat host and venue owner, Shannon shares what works (and what to avoid) so you can build profitable, transformational retreats with confidence. You’ll walk away with clarity, strategy, and a new level of confidence around your retreat business! The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Join our LinkedIn Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Join me in London Get your legal docs for retreats   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon Jamail 00:00:02  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast. The show for visionary coaches, healers, wellness pros and small business owners who aren't just here to host another feel good getaway, but to build a profitable, impactful retreat business. I'm your host, Shannon Jamail, retreat strategist, business mentor, and owner of a 46 acre retreat center. I've hosted over 100 retreats around the world, and I've made every mistake so you don't have to. Each week we'll dive into the mindset, marketing, money, business and mechanics behind sold out profitable retreats. Plus, hear from expert guests who are walking the talk. Whether you're planning your first retreat or scaling your 100th, you're in the right place. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to our welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. I am coming off of an Incredible three day conference that I cannot wait to tell you guys more about. I'm still processing, but it literally is going to change how I show up in what I do and just how I show up as a human. Shannon Jamail 00:01:10  I'm that excited about it. But today, what we're going to talk about is the top 12 questions I get asked all the time, whether it's from podcast listeners or in my Facebook group or emails or messages like these are the top 12 questions that I get asked all the time. All right, let's dig in. First one, how do I know if I'm ready to lead a retreat? This is such a good question. And actually, if you're asking this question, you're on the right track, period. Because I think too many times people just jump in, they start planning things and making websites and all this stuff, and they have not done any of the work that's really required in order to start hosting retreats. And the first one is asking yourself, how do I know if I'm ready? And to me, there's a few things. The first one is do you have a clear purpose for the retreat? Not just a desire to travel or gather people, but like a clear purpose, a clear promise? What is the transformation? What is the guest going to experience and feel, and what's going to be different at the end of your retreat? Is it super clear? Are you super clear on who you're going to serve? Who is that guest? And I mean super clear. Shannon Jamail 00:02:24  Like crystal clear. That guest has a name. It's a full avatar. It is. You know exactly who they are, where they live, how much money they make, if they're working out of the home, if they're working in the home, you know where they shop. You know what social platforms they're on. You know exactly who this person is that you are marketing to. So crystal clear on the promise, the transformation and crystal clear on who you are serving. And this isn't just I think I know and go for it. No, this is writing it down. Journaling it out. Getting really deep and nitty gritty in knowing who this person is and what the promises of the transformation is. I cannot emphasize this enough how important this is. So those are the first two things that are really important, because the confidence is going to come from the clarity. Like, truly, your confidence will come from the clarity of knowing exactly who you're going to serve and exactly how you're going to serve and how they're going to feel at the end of your retreat, the transformation that you're going to facilitate. Shannon Jamail 00:03:25  So that's super important. Before you start hosting, before you even put together anything, there's two things I think you should do. Also the first one is attend retreats. If you've never attended a retreat, you have no business hosting a retreat. I'm just going to say it just like that. You have no business hosting retreats if you're not attending retreats. And when you do start hosting retreats, you should continue to attend retreats. You have to walk the talk. Okay. So attend retreats. You're going to learn so much on retreats. First of all, you're going to get whatever transformation they are promising ideally. But also you're going to learn. What did you love about it? What did you not like about it? How are you going to structure your retreat by the things that you learn from that retreat? Now, that does not mean that you go copy somebody retreat. That's not cool. This is just about market research and understanding what you like as a person and then taking that into your retreat space. Shannon Jamail 00:04:26  So please understand the difference of that. But you should be attending retreats. The other thing is I highly recommend this, but it's not as important, although I might argue with myself on that. Go work retreats. Go work at a retreat. I have a work exchange program for almost all of my retreats. Lots of hosts offer work exchange type of positions, or there's retreat centers. Whatever it is, however you get in there, go work a retreat. And when you do ask how you can really help behind the scenes as well. I have hosted or I have helped a few retreat leaders that at the end of hosting their own retreat, they're like, this is not for me. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. I was physically and emotionally drained. I do not have the capacity capacity for it or the like for it, whatever. And so they spent a lot of time and money and energy building up this retreat brand, hosting their first retreat, and then realizing, I don't like this. Shannon Jamail 00:05:26  No thank you. And so go work a retreat. If you do those few things, know exactly who you're going to serve, what you're going to serve, what the transformation is. You attend retreats and work retreats. You will know at the end of that if you are ready. Okay. At that point, if you still feel like, yes, this is what I want to do, then go for it. Question number two how far in advance should I start planning my retreat? This will vary by a couple of variables, I would say. And also, by the way, it varies by your demographic. It varies by your geographic. It varies by your community. As far as do you have an established community? There's so many variables. So I don't feel like there's a one size fits all, but ideally there's somewhere between the 9 to 12 month range. You could go as low as six months. I would not put together a retreat with less than six months. That's just me. Shannon Jamail 00:06:22  There might be other people out there that will tell you differently, but I wouldn't do it with less than six months. And so the 9 to 12 really, again, it varies. Like for me, my international retreats, I actually plan them two years in advance. And that's for a number of reasons, a lot to do with me personally. And so my retreats that are in my home country, it's definitely 12 months. Part of that too, is I own a venue, and so just having to schedule in things appropriately, like it's just a whole thing, but I really start marketing somewhere between 6 to 9 months. That's when I'm marketing, and that's what I'm selling is between 6 to 9 months. Now, have I seen retreat leaders do it within 2 to 3 months? Yes I have. They're very much exceptions to the rule. Usually. Usually it's because they have a very big community. It's because they've done it before. It's because the community's begging for it. There's just those very active, engaged things that are happening that they are able to do that and and make it work successfully. Shannon Jamail 00:07:29  Otherwise, again, 9 to 12 months, as little as six months, depending on where you're at and all of that type of thing. If you've answered question number one and you know you still want to do retreats, I would start building an interest list right then and there. Without even having your dates or anything, I would just start building your interest list. So that's just an FYI. Okay. Question number three how do I choose the right location or venue? So I've answered this in our podcast and I've blogged about it. And so there's different resources that you can find that I've already talked about this, but here's what I will say. You need to think about who your ideal guest is. That avatar we talked about like what's their vibe? What is approximately their budget? What's their travel comfort level like? For instance, for me, I thought about hosting a retreat in Greece. But when I realized for me personally, coming from Austin, Texas, how long it was going to take me to get there and how many planes and boats and shuttles I had to get on, I was like, that's just not for me. Shannon Jamail 00:08:30  And it's it's just an incredible location. By the way, there is no knocking that Greece is an incredible location to host, but I'm not interested in going through that much travel t

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Amity Cooper, a licensed mental health professional turned ranch retreat host in Colorado. Together, they dive into the world of nature-based retreats, horse-led healing, and the business foundation every retreat leader needs to succeed. Amity shares her transition from private practice to owning and operating two stunning ranches—1890 Ranch and Wayfinding Ranch—spanning 80 acres. With a clear North Star guiding her work, Amity emphasizes that profitable, sustainable retreats start with purpose. They unpack what it means to align your retreat business with your life goals, why planning 12+ months out is crucial, and the behind-the-scenes systems needed to avoid burnout and cancellations. Whether you're a venue owner or aspiring retreat host, this conversation is a must-listen for those wanting to build impactful and intentional retreats. Connect with Amity: www.the1890ranch.com  https://wayfindingranch.com/    The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ----------- Introduction & Guest Welcome (00:00:02) Shannon introduces the podcast, herself, and welcomes guest Amity Cooper, highlighting their similarities as venue owners. Amity’s Background & Ranch Story (00:01:46) Amity shares her journey from mental health professional to ranch and venue owner, and her motivation for creating retreat spaces. Is Hosting Retreats Right for You? (00:03:21) Discussion on evaluating if hosting retreats aligns with your lifestyle, goals, and business vision. Finding Your North Star & Why (00:04:18) Importance of identifying your purpose and motivation before starting a retreat business. Retreats as a Business, Not a Hobby (00:07:07) Emphasizing that retreats are a serious business venture requiring a clear purpose and resilience through challenges. Pitfalls of Poor Planning (00:08:30) Warning against casually throwing together retreats without a clear plan or purpose. Vision vs. Implementation: Roles & Systems (00:09:31) Clarifying the need for systems, clear roles, and balancing vision with practical implementation. The Importance of a Business Plan (00:10:15) Stressing the necessity of a detailed business plan for each retreat, including logistics, budget, and marketing. Venue Owner Perspective: Spotting Unprepared Hosts (00:11:35) How venue owners can quickly identify hosts who lack planning and the importance of mutual fit. Booking Timelines & Commitment (00:13:19) Why venues require advance bookings and the risks of last-minute cancellations for both parties. Preparation vs. Spontaneity in Retreat Planning (00:14:56) Contrasting well-prepared hosts with those who approach retreats impulsively, and the consequences of each. Recommended Planning Timeline (00:16:06) Advice to start planning retreats at least a year in advance, with venue outreach 9-12 months before the event. Marketing & Booking Windows (00:18:06) Guidance on when to begin marketing and booking, emphasizing the need for early and thorough preparation. Learning Before Leading: Work Exchanges & Attending Retreats (00:19:49) Encouragement to gain experience by working or attending retreats before hosting your own. Amity’s Ranch Offerings (00:21:06) Amity describes her two ranch properties, their features, and the types of events they host. Closing & Resources (00:23:59) Shannon thanks Amity, recaps key takeaways, and shares where to find more resources and information.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage). Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation. You’ll hear: Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication The pros and cons of living at your retreat property What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market A special offer just for podcast listeners Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats! Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy. Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List  Get your legal docs for retreats   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ------------------Timestamps: Introduction (00:00:00) Overview of the podcast’s focus on retreat leadership, guest experiences, and marketing secrets. Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark. Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona. Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills. Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes. Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies. Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property. Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide. On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics. Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London. Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats. Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together. Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths. Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts. Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate. Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation. Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles. Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property. Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere. Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site. Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site. Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort. Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode. Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.  

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage). Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation. You’ll hear: Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication The pros and cons of living at your retreat property What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market A special offer just for podcast listeners Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats! Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy. Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List  Get your legal docs for retreats   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ----------------- Timestamps: Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark. Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona. Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills. Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes. Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies. Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property. Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide. On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics. Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London. Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats. Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together. Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths. Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts. Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate. Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation. Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles. Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property. Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere. Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site. Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site. Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort. Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode. Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners. 

Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration. In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success. They dig into: Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t Connect with Kara: www.madeoutside.com Talk about this podcast and get 20% off   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ---------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show. Kara 00:00:46  Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here. Shannon 00:00:49  I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are. Kara 00:00:59  Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success. Shannon 00:02:06  I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat. Shannon 00:02:24  And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story. Kara 00:03:16  Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that. Kara 00:04:10  So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there. Shannon 00:04:22  I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%. Shannon 00:05:00  The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on. Shannon 00:05:50  But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that. Kara 00:06:17  100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site. Kara 00:06:45  It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone. Kara 00:07:53  It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints. Shannon 00:08:11  Oh, okay, now you're really talking my l

In this empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by retreat host and business coach Raisah Salima Bickram for a deeply honest conversation about evolution, alignment, and energetic pricing in the retreat world. Together, they unpack what it means to outgrow clients, roles, and retreat formats—and how to move forward in integrity and confidence. Raisah shares her journey of raising her prices, honoring her worth, and navigating the guilt that can come with letting go of what no longer fits. Shannon and Raisah also dive into: Pricing from a place of energy and impact (not fear) Why fair pricing supports sustainability and transformation Offering scholarships without compromising profitability How to create aligned, soul-led retreats that evolve with you Standing firm in your message—even when trends suggest otherwise Whether you're a seasoned retreat leader or stepping into your first offering, this episode will inspire you to lead from a place of power, purpose, and authenticity About Raisah: Raisah Salima Bickram is a Spiritual Mentor and Business Coach who activates visionary women into their highest leadership and timeline. She is the founder of The Mind, Body + Soul Experience (The MBSX) and has designed and led over 30 retreats worldwide- ranging from intimate day experiences to transformative weekend immersions and international journeys. Her work explores themes of identity, expansion, healing, and the embodiment of sovereign leadership—guiding women to become the CEOs of their own lives. A certified somatic yoga teacher, sound healer, and Reiki Master, Raisah specializes in trauma-informed practices that create safe, sacred spaces for deep alchemy work. Her journey began in September 2020 with a pop-up backyard day retreat in Long Island, NY, where 18 attendees gathered. What started as a local gathering quickly evolved into a global movement. Since then, Raisah has guided retreats across the Caribbean Sea to the Indian Ocean, cultivating a community of clients who are drawn to soul work, sacred play, and exploration. Through her retreats, mentorship, and coaching, she supports women in unlocking their gifts, stepping into aligned leadership, and coming home to their truest selves. Today, Raisah continues to serve as a global retreat leader, business & mindset coach, and yoga teacher, weaving spirituality and strategy to empower women to rise into their fullest expression. Connect with Raisah: http://Thembsx.com  Instagram: @mbsx_raisah Special Offer: $200 off her Sedona retreat + free identity activation session for the first 3 bookings   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ------------ Timestamps by PodSqueeze: Guest Introduction: Raisa (00:01:34) Raisa introduces herself, her work as a business coach, spiritual mentor, and retreat leader. Defining Outgrowing Clients, Spaces, and Seasons (00:02:32) Discussion on what it means to outgrow clients, spaces, and seasons in business. The Discomfort and Necessity of Growth (00:03:00) Raisa uses the analogy of outgrowing shoes to explain the discomfort and necessity of growth. Letting Go and Aligning with New Clients (00:04:26) Exploring the importance of letting go of old clients and attracting those aligned with your current value. Fears Around Outgrowing and Raising Prices (00:06:58) Shannon discusses common fears: hurting clients and fear of not replacing them when raising prices. Accessibility, Pricing, and Scholarships (00:08:31) Raisa and Shannon discuss making retreats accessible, pricing for value, and offering scholarships. Energetic Reciprocity and Industry Impact (00:14:15) Shannon emphasizes the harm of undercharging and the importance of energetic exchange in pricing. Energetic Alignment and Personal Pricing (00:16:15) Discussion on how pricing should feel energetically aligned and unique to each leader. Evolving Offerings and Audience (00:18:19) How evolving retreat experiences naturally calls in a different audience over time. Authenticity and Co-Creation in Business (00:19:40) Raisa discusses the importance of alignment and authenticity in creating retreat experiences. Magnetizing Your Ideal Clients (00:21:29) How being rooted in your message and expression attracts the right clients. Staying True to Your Vision (00:22:31) Shannon shares an example of a retreat leader staying true to her unique retreat format. Leadership, Trust, and Not Diluting Your Offer (00:24:19) Raisa talks about sovereign leadership, authenticity, and trusting your vision. Setting Boundaries for Retreat Structure (00:26:44) Advice on not allowing partial attendance at retreats to maintain integrity of the experience. Raisa’s Upcoming Retreats and Offerings (00:27:10) Raisa shares details about her upcoming Sedona retreat and her new Retreat Mastery program. Special Offers and How to Connect (00:29:44) Information on special offers for listeners and how to connect with Raisa online. Closing and Call to Action (00:30:57) Shannon wraps up the episode, encourages reviews, and shares where to find more resources.  

Can you build a retreat business that isn’t bound by location—and actually expands your impact? In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon chats with long-time health and fitness expert Alison Katschkowsky about building a hybrid retreat business model that combines the power of in-person transformation with the scalability of online programs. Alison shares her 30+ year journey from brick-and-mortar fitness to digital expansion, and how she now helps other entrepreneurs add retreats as a powerful layer to their business—without overhauling their structure. They dive into: The power of hybrid models (and how they outlive fads) How retreats can enhance your brand, not distract from it Creative ways to offer transformation in both in-person and online formats Alison’s behind-the-scenes plan for her luxe Amalfi Coast retreat If you’ve been wondering how to blend the best of both worlds—connection and scale—this episode is your blueprint. Retreats aren’t just an event—they’re a business growth strategy.   Connect with Alison https://thealisonk.com/meet-alison   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   -------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Today I am so excited to say that not only do I have an amazing guest, but she's becoming an amazing friend and soon to be business partner, which we cannot wait to talk about that we're going to drop some little, little hints about what we have in store. But Alison, welcome to the show again. Alison 00:00:49  It is always a good day in my world when I can talk to you, Shannon. So it's. Shannon 00:00:52  All good. Amen. I feel the same. So, Allison, why don't you just refresh for those who maybe did hear your show or just let people know who you are and what brought you to this point. Alison 00:01:05  My name is Allison Koski, and you don't have to say that. For those of you listening, most people just say Allison K. But just so you know, when you look at my last name, the c h is silent. So it's really just Katz Koski. So it's a little bit easier to say, but Allison K works. So so and I my background is in health and fitness. I've been in the health and fitness industry for over 30 years. I was a very successful brick and mortar business owner for a lot of those years, until I started going online about ten years ago. That's about when I started doing retreats. It was probably 2013, 2014, something in there when it was really still a very new concept. And so what I figured out was, is that the big question back then was, is do we need to just now that online is becoming big and everyone was moving their business online. It was like, you know, well, we're just going to go in this direction. Alison 00:01:56  And so my argument was always, you don't have to choose one. You can do both. And then when the pandemic hit, everybody went online. And now what's interesting is, is that everybody's going back to adding some kind of in-person, because you and I are both seeing this in the retreat space. It's just it's blowing up there. Everybody and their mother is thinking about retreats now, which is great. It's great for us. It's great for the industry. But but I just think there is there is a lot of opportunity there for so many people. Shannon 00:02:24  I love this. One of the things that Alison and I talked about before we recorded is, is kind of the topics which Alison and I could spend, honestly, you guys weeks on this podcast talking about business and retreats and, and all of that good stuff. but one of the things I thought would be really relevant is a hybrid model. And Alison, you are the queen of this. You help people build this. So tell me what that looks like for the retreat industry. Shannon 00:02:49  What does that even mean when I when we say hybrid model? Alison 00:02:51  Before I get to that, let me just kind of give my little analogy when I talk about the hybrid model, when we think about a hybrid model, what are we really talking about? We're really talking the best example I can offer for people because I'm a big analogy person. The best example I can offer for people is think about the hybrid car. What is the hybrid car? Do the hybrid car allows you to use gas or electricity? Right. So it's both. And so one of the selling points is because it's a hybrid model, the car can go further. You can get further on a tank of gas. Therefore it's the maintenance is better right. It will cost you less in gas in the long run. So you see there, not the car. Literally. There's no choice made as to whether or not you go one or the other. The same thing is true when we do the hybrid business model in our business. Alison 00:03:39  Now back in 2012, 2013, 2014, when the online space was really blowing up, this is when social media was really becoming the thing. you know, a lot of people were starting to think this is kind of the direction that I want to go with my business. And in my industry, it was blowing up like crazy. Then what happened when the pandemic hit It is that everybody went online. And the good news is, is that we could go online because it was available. But the bad news is, is that people sort of got away from being in person. And now what we're seeing because it's 2025, is that really the best combination? The best plan is to combine both. And one of the things that I started doing back when the online space was really getting big was that I started slowly dipping my toe in the water of online. And what did that look like? It looked like offering like online challenges, like connecting with people online. And then of course, when the pandemic hit, it was like you had to go all in. Alison 00:04:38  And for me and a lot of other people in my industry, I had to basically start over. Basically my business as I knew it went out the window, but it was time for me to put my money where my mouth was and really make it work. And that's what I did. And that's one of the things that I really teach my clients how to do today, because you don't have to choose. That's the beauty of it. Shannon 00:04:57  That is the beauty of it is that you don't have to choose, Jews, especially today. Because you're right, Alison. You know, years ago, I mean, well, to be honest with you, years ago, the online business was not, you know, obviously what it is today, but you kind of felt like you had to fall into one or the other categories. So you're you're absolutely right. Tell me. Alison 00:05:15  there are a lot of people today that still feel like you have to fall into one or the other, because these are conversations I have every day with people when they say, well, I can't really be myself online, I can't really. Alison 00:05:25  It just doesn't feel the same. I'm not good at it. Or they'll say about in person, well, that's just not really what I do. This is what I'm used to. And this is kind of the conundrum that we found ourselves in. Shannon 00:05:36  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yeah totally agree. I hear that all the time. As well as just people saying, well, my business is online, they're not going to want to meet in person, or the other way around. Shannon 00:06:26  You know, everything I do is in person. So you're right. It is. Sometimes we get pigeonholed and we just assume that it has to be in that that way. Can you? Can you give us an example of maybe somebody you've worked with and like what this looks like in real life when somebody is considering it a hybrid model? Alison 00:06:41  Well, I mean, there are actually lots of examples. But one example pretty much right now is I have a client right now who has an in-person, primarily in-person business. This is how people work with her. They come to see her, they book an appointment with her. She has some online resources, like she has an e-book and she has some other things, but it's really hardly the same thing as having an experience with her. And one of the things that we're actually working on right now is building out a retreat piece to go with her in-person business. Now, that might not seem like a typical hybrid model, but what she has to do is literally build an online presence to go with that in-person offering. Alison 00:07:21  Because in order to offer retreats, if you have a successful in-person business, is is that you have to be always reaching more people. So this is something else th

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Brent McCann, founder of the True North Retreat, to talk about the rising tide of men’s retreats—and what it takes to make them successful and sustainable. Brent shares how he transitioned from corporate HR into the retreat space, the lessons learned from his first Sedona retreat (including the power of trusting the process), and how he’s now crafting a profitable, aligned retreat business. They dive into: Why men book differently than women—and how to speak directly to them Pricing strategies that work (and how Brent raised his profit margin from 1% to 30%) How to design high-impact experiences that create transformation and build community What it looks like to scale retreats with intention, alignment, and purpose Brent's upcoming True North Men's Retreat in Austin (Oct 23–26) is designed for men at a crossroads—ready to step out of the noise, zip-line into clarity, and walk away reconnected to purpose.    Connect with Brent: https://truenorthretreat2025.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List  Get your legal docs for retreats  Join our private Facebook Group Join our LinkedIn Group Join me in London   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   --------------------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon  00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. I am super stoked about my guest today. Before we started recording, I told our guest that I don't have enough of them on my show or enough of them. You know that I see in the retreat space. So welcome Brent to the show. I'm so excited you're here. Brent 00:00:44  Thank you. Shannon, it's my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the time. Shannon  00:00:48  Yes. So Brent is a retreat host. And what I meant by there's not enough of them, or at least I don't see enough of them. And so maybe it's just not on my radar as much as it should be, is that there's not enough men hosting men retreats, in my opinion, and Brent hosts men retreats that look absolutely fantastic. Shannon  00:01:06  But I don't want to take away too much of your thunder, Brent. So why don't you just tell us all about who you are, what you do, and what brought you to where you are now? Brent 00:01:13  Absolutely. Thank you. So, I'm a previous corporate, employee. I was a, you know, a mid senior level HR leader for about ten years working in corporate America. Before that, I was in the car wash industry working as an operations leader. So for for like 15, 20 years, I was working for the man. And I got to the point where, last year, well, about two years ago, I went to an event out in Austin and I was really moved by it. And in that moment, sitting with 100 people, I looked to my friend and I said to him, I said, listen, man, I'm going to do this someday. I want to do this kind of thing. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know what to expect. Brent 00:01:53  But, what ended up working out was that, you know, last year, you know, I made a pretty good deal on a real estate thing that I was doing on the side. And about Q3, Q4 of last year, I had this epiphany that like, if I wanted to, I could probably take a year, year and a half off and see if I could grow this, this retreat business into something. Shannon  00:02:15  And yes. Brent 00:02:16  Yeah. So it was really, it was exciting and nerve wracking at the same time. Right? You know, it's like, I have no idea what I don't know. yep. But I trust. Right? You know, I trusted and, I actually did a, I went to this breathwork, certification thing, and I came back from that in December of last year, and I was all of a sudden I was in a meditation after doing a breathwork. And it was like I felt like, you know, the universe just zapped into my head and was like, you should do a men's retreat. Brent 00:02:47  And I'm like, okay. Speaker 3 00:02:51  I didn't think about that. But, you know, I was like, all right. Like, let's, let's look at this. Brent 00:02:55  And, and but I didn't know where, you know, like I had coordinated things in corporate HR. Before, you know, corporate retreat type things, but not in this space. And I felt this, this urge to go to Sedona. And I had never been to Sedona before. I knew nothing about it. Literally had no idea where it even was. But I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, let's go. and, you know, six months later, you know, I had my first retreat. So, you know, it's been a journey. You know, it's, it's a it's a gift. It's really what it comes down to. So, you know, I don't wanna get too long winded on it, but I. Shannon  00:03:28  Know that this is great. Okay, so there's so many things that happened just in this first snippet. Shannon  00:03:34  the first thing is, is, like, you definitely received your download because for you to have a download that says, go to Sedona and you've never even been there or didn't even know where it is. that's definitely a download. It's not usually what I would recommend unless it's a download. Right. Because, you know, we we typically want to host at least our first retreat. and I'm even a fan of saying all retreats in places we've been to at least one time. However, there are definitely situations like this where something is speaking to you and you've just got to follow it. And I love this so much. Let's talk about the fact. Steve, here's the thing, guys. What we're going to talk about today is Brent's recap of his first retreat, and then now how he's going to learn from that retreat and go forward. Because I think a lot of people, Brent, they think my first retreat, I'm going to make $1 million and it's going to be knocked out of the park. Shannon  00:04:26  And I also think there are a lot of people out there making it sound like you can do that, like you can just all of a sudden be an instant success. But the truth is that there's no such thing in any industry. I don't care what it is. If corporate, small business, large business, it doesn't matter what it is. You're typically not an instant success unless you consider the learning, the success, which I do. Right? Because that's what those first few retreats are. At least the first 1 to 3 are learning experiences and their investments for future ones. So I would love, Brent, for you to tell us what happened on your first retreat and what was the biggest downloads and learnings you got from it? Brent 00:05:04  Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the the goal here was just to break even. You know, I, I, you know, I remember listening to episodes that you had shared and even in your book where it says like don't go too far away. Brent 00:05:16  And I'm like, oh my God. Like I live in Western New York. I'm going to this, this place I've never even been to. Right. So, you know, like, I booked a flight and I got out there two weeks later and I scoped it out, and and things just really aligned very well. but really, you know, what I learned from this was in the retreats, probably. And as with anything new, who you're coming up against is not the people that I was advertising to or, you know, my family. I was coming up against myself. You know. Shannon  00:05:47  This? Yes. Brent 00:05:49  Vulnerable space to be in, financially vulnerable, energetically vulnerable. And, you know, and to know that, like, not everybody catches the, you know, picks up what you're throwing down there. Right? Like, people are like, what the hell are you talking about? You're doing this, you know? So, yeah, I really I invested in a program. that was okay. Brent 00:06:11  Like, I spent a lot of money on it, but it was. It had a pretty good return for me, at least, to get me familiar, because I didn't have, like, an Instagram following. I didn't have a LinkedIn following. I, I'm not on Facebook that often. So how do you do this? Right? and that was part of facing off with myself is like overcoming this limit, these limiting beliefs that I need those things in order for that to happen. And, I'll be honest with you, I was going to I was going to throw it out, like I that got to be I had one person sign up. It was the end of March. the, the, the agreements that I signed were coming into the point were like, okay, you're you're within 90 days, you're within 45 days. You need to, you know, make sure you get a deposit. You're on the hook for this. And, I just didn't see it happening and I just totally I gave up, and I was going to take the website down. Brent 00:07:03  And I remember thinking, you know, I've got it. I'm going to take the website down, on like Thursday or no, it was like a week before. And then all a sudden I'm like, I'll just wait. I'll wait a little bit. I'm going to have this meeting with a friend and then we'll see what happens. Well, before this meeting with my friend, I'm making breakfast one morning and I get this text alert and I'm like, what the hell is this from? And I look, and somebody had actually registered for the event like a straight cold registration. And all of a sudden I had this moment and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that vision from a couple months ago is true. Maybe this like, maybe there is something ou

Retreat not filling up? You’re not alone—and it’s probably not your price. In this power-packed episode, Shannon Jamail is joined by pricing and profit strategist Erin Haag to break down the real reasons most retreats fail to sell out—and exactly how to fix it. From outdated marketing approaches to misaligned pricing strategies, they unpack the blind spots that hold retreat leaders back from profitability. Erin shares her proven formula for pricing retreats using math over emotion—and the key profit margins every retreat business should aim for. Shannon and Erin also talk about why transformation sells more than price, the importance of daily sales activity, and why being in the right rooms with high-achieving peers can change everything. PLUS: Erin shares a free resource for retreat leaders—her Top 5 Tips for Hosting Profitable Retreats. Erins Top Five Tips: https://luxuryinbusinessretreats.mykajabi.com/top-5-tips-1 The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Spotify

Most retreat leaders aren’t just undercharging… they’re under-profiting. In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Leni Cavazos—event strategist, loyalty marketing expert, and former Ritz-Carlton powerhouse turned retreat business mentor. Together, they unpack why up to 90% of retreats aren’t actually profitable—and how to shift that. You’ll learn: Why retreat leaders must treat their business like a business (not a hobby) What loyalty marketing actually is (and how to start it from day one) The biggest pricing mistake even experienced leaders make Why your transformation container is worth way more than a fancy vacation How alumni can become your secret sales team This episode is a must-listen for retreat leaders ready to stop surviving and start scaling. 🎁 Bonus: Leni shares how to get her free eBook on selling retreats to past clients.   About Leni: Leni Cavazos is the leading authority on building 6-figure retreat businesses. With over 18 years in global marketing, brand strategy, and high-level event production, she’s behind the success of over 100 retreats worldwide. Leni teaches coaches and entrepreneurs how to scale with strategy, precision, and purpose—no guesswork, no fluff. Free Offer: https://theretreatplanner.com/loyaltyebook  Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats With Past Clients Ebook Connect with Leni: https://theretreatplanner.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   --------------------------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon  00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. This is Shannon, and today I'm so excited to have a fellow retreat professional on the podcast today. Our paths have definitely crossed in different ways, and now we get to connect in person, sort of. We'll say sort of because we are recording on zoom. But welcome, Lenny to the show. Leni 00:00:45  Thank you so much for having me. Shannon, I'm so excited to be able to talk more about retreats. Shannon  00:00:50  Me too. I mean, anytime I get to get with another professional and talk business, it's like, I don't know, Christmas. It's just so, so fun. Shannon  00:00:58  So, This is Lenny Cavazos, and I want you to first just start off by telling us about yourself. What brought you to this space? I don't know, just a little bit about who you are. Leni 00:01:08  Oh, yes. Of course. So I started actually in the space of events many, many, many years ago. I started when I was 16 years old working at events, and it was absolutely amazing. I love being in person with people because of the connection that you can create. And that led me actually to move to the Middle East. I was living in Dubai for six years, and I was working at the Ritz-Carlton, where I rebranded nine restaurants and the spa, and I made it snow in the desert. And it was absolutely wonderful. And one of the pieces that actually is going to be very big in our conversation today is loyalty marketing. So after I was at the Ritz-Carlton, I actually moved to Marriott's corporate office for Middle Eastern Africa, and I was working in a team that launched Marriott Bonvoy. Leni 00:01:54  So for those who do not know what Marriott Bonvoy is, it's a loyalty program for people to who stay at Marriott hotels. Basically, the more you stay at their hotels, the more the rewards you get. From free breakfast to room upgrades to invitations to crazy, crazy events. And I was in charge of running some of those crazy, crazy events for loyal customers. So I hosted a dinner in front of the Giza pyramids, at dinner in the Summer Palace of the King of Saudi Arabia, and it was a private concert for Craig, David, you name it. But the main focus of this was really to create connection with our customers, because loyal customers spend 67% more than non loyal customers. Now, when the pandemic hit and everything changed, I was trapped in my apartment on the 52nd floor with a beautiful view, but I could not leave unless I had a permission slip from the police. And that was the moment where I decided I wanted to do something different. I was like, I do not want people making decisions for myself. Leni 00:02:58  So I move myself back to Mexico, my hometown, and I actually started attending retreats. Right. So something that brings me, I guess, a little bit out of a lot of other retreat coaches into this space is that a lot of coaches started because they were hosting retreats, and then they start teaching how to host your own treats. My story was not like that. I started attending retreats that changed my life, and then I started creating connections with those retreat leaders. And there was this very specific retreat for women that I attended that literally changed who I was, my life. It got me to reconnect with my femininity. It was just beautiful. So at the end of the retreat, I asked them, so when is the next one I want to bring my mom, my friends. And they were like, no, we're not having a next one because we didn't even break even. How is this possible? You had 13 women at your retreat. And then I realized there was a big problem in the transformational world. Leni 00:03:59  And because I. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right? Shannon  00:04:04  Yes. Leni 00:04:06  And then, because I am very curious, I couldn't help myself. And I started interviewing retreat leaders to figure out what was going on out there, to figure out what was the missing link from creating transformation, serving people, to actually running your retreats like a business? Shannon  00:04:23  Yes. Leni 00:04:25  Big, big difference. So after interviewing over 100 retreat leaders and I keep doing a lot of market research as I go, I've started this over five years ago. I can tell you that over 70% of retreat leaders do not profit from their retreats. And that's just so sad. Shannon  00:04:41  I would guess, to be quite honest with you, that it's even higher than that. I really would, I would, I would guess it's closer to 80 or 90% based on the people that I talked to as well. So and it is it's absolutely to me it's devastating, but it's also such a disservice. Leni 00:04:57  Yes, I always tell them, like, do you want to go back to your 9 to 5 job instead of actually doing what you're meant to be doing in the world, because you don't treat your business like a business and you treat it like a hobby, you know, I'm here to serve, and it doesn't matter if I don't make any money. Leni 00:05:13  And the reality is that retreats takes so much time and effort and energy, and there's so transformational. Like people change their lives when they go to retreats. Why wouldn't you also profit from it? Shannon  00:05:24  I totally, totally agree with you. this is you're speaking my language on so many levels. I struggle greatly with anybody who's in this industry and and saying, you know, that they're either a not making a profit, that they don't want to make a profit. That's somebody who just is like, okay, we're not even in the same we're not even in the same city, let alone, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's just not even whatever. because you do you get a lot of that language in this, in this business, in this industry of like profits are evil or money is evil or any kind of bullshit like that. I just don't play that game. but then the flip side of that part is they just don't know how to run a business, right? So there's the attitude and you can't fix attitude. Shannon  00:06:07  They've got to figure that part out. They've got to do them inner work. They've got to figure out what their money obstacles are, whatever that is. The other part of it is they just don't know how to make a profit. And that can be fixed, right? That can be learned. That can be taught. and it sounds like that's something that you help people do. Leni 00:06:25  Yeah. So for me, it's all about like like my core messaging is like sold out and profitable. And the reason it's like, and I don't even really, really like I'm not like your retreat does not need to be sold out to be profitable, but you do want to be able to sell. And a lot of people lack sales skills. And it doesn't mean that you need to have these more like phone marketing person getting angry at you because you don't buy from them, right? And we have a misconception that selling is an act of service and that you're taking away from people if you do not offer your services. Shannon  00:07:03  Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about selling. and it's it's it's unfortunate, but it's fixable. as long as somebody is willing to open up their mindset, one of the things that you mentioned right at the beginning, and I know it's the topic that we really want to focus on today, because I think you and I could talk about things for hours and hours. but one of the main things that I'm really excited to chat about is loyalty marketing. And I know that you have a lot of experience in loyalty marketing. and I'm really passionate about it, so I'm super excited to delve into that part, which also aligns with sales, because there's absolut

Hey retreat boss—it’s time for a heart-to-heart. In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth that most retreat leaders avoid: 👉 If your retreat planning isn’t working, it’s not just your strategy—it’s your identity. Whether you’re dreaming of your first retreat or you’ve been in the game for years, this episode is your wake-up call to stop hustling like someone who hopes to succeed—and start embodying the retreat leader who already is. ✨ Shannon breaks down how to align your actions, energy, and environment with the version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with confidence. You’ll walk away with questions to ask yourself, identity upgrades to make today, and a clear reminder: 💥 You don’t get what you want—you get who you are. 🎧 Tune in now for the kick-in-the-leggings clarity every retreat leader needs. Link to full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/be-her-now-the-mindset-shift-that-builds-profitable-retreats/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   --------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. Today I want to talk about something that has been coming up in a lot of conversations lately. And it's all about who do you need to become when your retreat planning isn't working? Because here's the thing you all have the vision. You have the passion. Maybe you've hosted a retreat or two, or you're dreaming of it. You're following strategies. Maybe you've even bought some programs and posted pretty graphics and the results are meh, right? You're not filling spots like you thought. You're not hitting those income goals. You do have income goals, right? Don't make me come after you. Shannon 00:01:04  You better have income goals. But you're burning time and energy and maybe money, and you're just not seeing the return. And here's the truth. I want to share with you with lots of love and zero bullshit. If what you're doing right now isn't working, it's not about doing more. It's about becoming more. Your retreat planning isn't what's broken, but your identity might be, I know. Oh, that sounds a little bit harsh, but stick with me here, because this isn't about blame. It's about radical responsibility. Let's say your goal is to earn $250,000 a year hosting retreats. Amazing. Totally doable. I'm actually going to pause there right now, because if I said that number and you were like, oh no, that's not that's not even possible, then honest to goodness, you're listening to the wrong podcast or you're just not ready. You're thinking way too small. And this isn't this isn't the space for you. Not yet. When you realize that 250,000 is totally doable and so is 500,000. Shannon 00:02:07  So is $1 million when you realize that you're in the right space. But whatever that number is, whatever that number is. I want you to get honest. When you think of the number, whatever your number is. I want you to get honest. I want you to ask yourself, are you making decisions like someone earning that amount a year? The big amount. The goal amount. Not that small shit. The big number. Are you making decisions like someone earning that number? Are you showing up with the confidence, the clarity and the consistency of someone who believes in that number? Are your daily habits, your energy, your schedule? Your identity aligned with that version of yourself? Who gets that number? Because here's the thing you don't get what you want. You get who you are. I want to say that again. You don't get what you want. You get who you are, who you're matched for. You get what you're matched for. That's why we've ever thought about things. And you're like, why didn't I get this then? But then you realized you went through all this other stuff, and you got that thing later and you were ready for it then. Shannon 00:03:21  You were you were equipped for it. Then you were thinking in that mindset. You were acting in that like you were ready for it then. We need to be ready for it now. We need to step into the version of ourselves who does hit that goal, that big goal. And let's break this down. So we'll break it down a little bit. If you're stuck in hustle mode, maybe even frozen mode, but let's say you're stuck in hustle mode and you're spinning your wheels trying to plan the perfect retreat to post the perfect reel, or even copying someone else's strategy. Maybe you're missing the point. You're missing the point if you're doing all these things because it's not just about retreat planning and marketing strategies. Although yes, you do need those, but it is about aligning your identity with the results that you say you want. So let's go through this. Let's ask yourself some questions. I really want you to to pause. Maybe after I ask the question, you pause this podcast and answer it. Shannon 00:04:21  Here's the first question. What does the retreat leader who earns 250,000 a year, $500,000 a year, whatever that number is? What does that retreat leader who earns that money do every day? Answer that question. Maybe she blocks her calendar with non-negotiable CEO time. She prioritizes revenue generating activities like outreach and strategic partnerships over tweaking Canva graphics for hours. Maybe she's very organized. She knows her numbers every day. She knows her numbers. I have a good friend, Erin Haig, who calls it coffee and QuickBooks. Shout out Aaron! I just love that she was doing that while we were in France. Every day it's coffee and QuickBooks. But a retreat leader who earns big money every day. She knows her numbers. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. Shannon 00:05:37  It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Here's another question what kind of mindset work does she do? What kind of mindset work does she do? Answer that question every day. Maybe she journals. She visualizes. Maybe she reminds herself every day that her work changes lives. She charges what she's worth and doesn't apologize for it. What kind of mindset work does she do? Another question who does she surround herself with? Who do you surround yourself with? Maybe she's in rooms in person and virtual with others who are playing big, y'all. This is important. This is why I joined the Genius Network. This is why I choose to surround myself with other people who think and play big. Maybe she learns from mentors who's who have actually walked the walk, not just talked the talk. Shannon 00:06:48  And I've got a little something to say about that here, because in this retreat industry now, we are seeing a lot of mentors and leaders popping up. And for only $7, you can learn how to make $1 million a year or $7,000. It really doesn't even matter. At the bottom, at the end of the day. What really matters is have they walked the walk? Have they walked the walk? That's who you want to listen to. That's who you want to surround yourself with. That's the room that you want to be in. She's also listening to books, podcasts and shows that speak growth, not scarcity. In this section of who she wants to surround herself with this question, I really want you to think hard of who you spend time with. Are they cheering you on and catapulting you to these big dreams? Or are they like, oh really? Are they holding you back? Or are they talking shit about the economy and the who? Whatever. Like, are they bringing you down? And you know how I feel about the economy and the world and how that affects us. Shannon 00:07:49  It doesn't. Listen to my other podcast on that. But who she surrounds herself with matters. Another question. How does she present herself? How does she present herself? This is kind of twofold to me. One is not in a fake way, right? She shows up on zoom events, even social media. Confident, grounded and magnetic. Right? But also, how do you put yourself together? Does that matter to you? Like, for me, I feel my most abundant, my most passionate, my most. Like I'm getting it when I have put a little something in to the effort of how I feel and look. By my presentation. Exterior presentation just as much as my interior. It does matter to me. It doesn't to everybody, but it matters to me. How you show up energetically and physically determines how you're going to feel. So how does she present herself? She drag in herself in her pajamas and come on over and and going, let me journal this bullshit. That's that's up on both both energetics and physicall

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Alessia Tenebruso—founder of One Girl Travel, retreat content creator, and social media strategist—for a juicy convo on how to create social media that actually converts. Alessia shares the importance of having a dedicated content creator or social correspondent at your retreats to capture authentic, behind-the-scenes moments that build trust and spark FOMO (the good kind). They dive into how retreat leaders can stay visible and aligned online without burning out, plus tips on using platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok strategically. Whether you're documenting a retreat or planning your next one, this episode is your blueprint for scroll-stopping, story-driven content that fills spots and builds your brand. 🎧 Tune in now and learn how to transform your retreat visibility—one post at a time.   🔗 Links Mentioned: Alessia’s Website: https://www.onegirltravel.com Follow Alessia on IG: @one_girl_travel     The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ----------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon and I am over the moon excited about my guest today. She is another amazing human being that I met in France. This is not the same because we are not sipping on champagne in France, but I am getting to record with her and I am so excited. Welcome Alexia to the show! I'm so excited you're here. Speaker 2 00:00:48  Thank you. It's so good to see you. I definitely miss you and all the fun we had in France. Speaker 1 00:00:53  Oh my gosh, it was seriously life changing on so many levels, but probably the biggest one was meeting the people that I've met there. Speaker 1 00:01:00  I have recorded shows about it and I have made posts about it. But if you are not up leveling yourself by getting into rooms with people who think higher, you know are just dreaming and envisioning and working towards bigger things. You're in the wrong spaces. And so that was just such an incredible experience. Plus, we're in France drinking champagne. I mean, come on. Speaker 2 00:01:20  Exactly. Speaker 1 00:01:21  It was a combination of amazingness. So why don't you first start off by just telling us who you are and what brought you to where you are at today? Speaker 2 00:01:28  Sure. My name is Alessia Russo. I'm the owner of One Girl Travel. I am many things I like to consider myself, like the Martha Stewart of the internet. I'm a certified life coach. I am newly a certified travel advisor. I am a content creator. I am a brand visibility consulting coach, and I am also a event Social Media coordinator. Speaker 1 00:01:52  Yes, to all of those things. And I saw quite a few of those things in action when we were in France. Speaker 1 00:01:58  And I want to talk about that stuff, because when I met you and I was realizing what you were doing and what you do, and I saw your content, which just blew me away, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so important for retreat leaders, because I do think a lot of retreat leaders are willy nilly. They're social media and they're digital content in general. And one of the things I always talk about is my number one goal is to grow my email list, my email list. But the number one way to do that is through social media, y'all. If you only knew how many times we've tried to record and the oopses that I have done today, I'm just going to blame it on a very busy, fruitful, amazing weekend I had with my retreat alumni. I did a lot of yelling and screaming, so my voice is done and so is my brain almost. But what we're going to talk about is super important because number one, building our email list. But we have to do that through our digital presence. Speaker 1 00:02:48  And the first thing people are going to look at when somebody is considering you or as a host or your business is your social media presence. It's a form of validation and it needs to be curated properly. one of the things I was talking about before we hit record was, you know, I see a lot of retreat leaders, especially new ones, but even some that have been trying to to kick around retreats for a while where they're like posting a cute picture of their kid and then their dog and then the retreat. And then, you know, this I don't know thing they saw on the news and then the retreat, like it's just all over the place and it's inconsistent. So could we just first talk about the importance of social media, the consistency of it, just, you know, in general why it's important to retreat leaders? Speaker 2 00:03:31  Yeah, absolutely. And first, I totally agree with you about your mailing list because you don't own your followers on these social platforms. But like you said, like this is like where your credibility is. Speaker 2 00:03:40  This is where they're getting to know you. So you're building community with your social media platforms, all of them. And each platform is very different. I in my opinion, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I feel like Instagram is more of the curated, you know you got your whole like, page and it's all curated. Nice TikToks a little more rogue. I feel like I can have a little more fun, a little more behind the scenes on TikTok. Facebook is Facebook's Facebook. for Facebook, right? Like it's been around for a long time. But pretty much everything I post on Instagram just goes to Facebook. But basically, that's where people are going on your page to get to know you. And I know you mentioned about like posting family and kids and dogs and things that that's great for your personal page that doesn't belong on your business page unless it is carrying over to what you are trying to get across to your community. Speaker 1 00:04:33  Right? Speaker 2 00:04:33  But that's what stories are for, in my opinion. Speaker 2 00:04:35  Stories, I think, are a great way to share behind the scenes of your life. People love stories. They love seeing what you do on the weekends with your family, your friends, but your actual social media feed. It should be intentional and you should be posting with purpose each time you post. Speaker 1 00:04:52  Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats, so if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that you're saying it like this because you literally nailed what I see as a user, let alone, you know, a business that's that's using the platforms. I agree with TikTok, by the way. We only started our TikTok account so we could do like pranks on the ranch and like show some funny behind the scenes goofiness. Speaker 1 00:05:34  And we've done some of that and I got to get better at it. But that is why I started TikTok. I thought that could be the more sassier branch of us. And then Instagram is very curated and Facebook is more like, here's an event, here's just some information, here's where we post our articles. It's SEO driven. It's, you know, it's got good stuff. Don't get me wrong. Depending on the age that you're targeting also might depend on which social media platform that you're spending a lot of time in. Very true, but I do agree. Each of them have their own kind of feel and layout to it. And I love that you said personal stuff. Personal page, unless it's stories. I totally agree with that so much. The stories is where people really, really get to know, like the person behind the brand, I think, or people behind the brand, like what's really happening, you know, behind the scenes. What are your struggles? What are your your successes? what are your your learning points or failures however you want to call them? And so I'm really excited that you you mentioned it that way. Speaker 1 00:06:28  Are you laid it out that way? Speaker 2 00:06:30  Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity for people to like, know and trust you. Right. Like that's the purpose of building your community. And they have to see that you're a real person, you know, especially if you're asking them to pay you for something. They need to know who they're paying and if they want to invest in you as a business owner. Speaker 1 00:06:49  See, this is so funny about, I don't know. It was probably eight, eight or so years ago. I was hosting a retreat in Northern California, and those of you that were on this retreat, you'll remember this. And we're going around the table, you know, the opening night and just introducing ourselves. What do we do? And all that kind of fun stuff. And I don't know, about halfway through. So we probably have about seven women who've already gone, well, like, this next woman was like, my name is so-and-so, I work for the FBI, and I background checked you to make sure that this was a legit thing. Speaker 1 00:07:17  And I was like, what? I

In this heartfelt and empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with Kelley Hartman to explore the transformative power of joy in retreat leadership. Kelley shares how a life-changing diversity retreat in her twenties sparked her passion for holding space and eventually led her to create her own retreats focused on joy, self-care, and aligned leadership. Together, Shannon and Kelley dive deep into why joy is not just a nice-to-have, but a non-negotiable for any retreat leader who wants to avoid burnout and truly support others. They get candid about energy management, setting boundaries, and honoring your nervous system—especially when life throws challenges your way. Whether you're a seasoned retreat host or dreaming of starting your first one, this episode reminds you that when you prioritize your own joy and well-being, you elevate the experience for everyone you serve.   Offerings from Kelley: Free 4 Step Outline to reset into joy: https://kelley-hartman.mykajabi.com/wildhartscollectivejoyresetsignup    Connect with Kelley: https://wildhartscollective.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   --------------------------------------------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat. Success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leader's podcast. It's Shannon and today I have such a special guest, although I have to preface it by saying this is not as fun as France because my guest is someone that I met while I was in France, and we were just saying right before we recorded that it was such a magical group and I missed that energy so, so very much. But I'm really excited to see you today. Kelly, welcome to the show. Speaker 2 00:00:54  Thank you. Very excited to be here. Speaker 1 00:00:58  Yes. So Kelly Hartmann and I are going to talk about something that probably seems a little bit like. Speaker 1 00:01:04  Wait a minute, Shannon, why are you talking about this? But I actually feel like it's super, super important for us as retreat leaders and what we do and how we serve. And it's just a very, very important aspect of our leadership. But before we dig into the topic, Kelly, just tell us about who you are and what brought you to where you are today. Speaker 2 00:01:22  Great. Yeah. So I'm Kelly Hartman and I own Wild Hearts Collective, and I am a retreat leader. So the journey there is a little bit of a long one. I went to my first retreat in my 20s, and what really sparked my lifelong desire to host retreats was the amount of transformation that happens when you're on retreat. I met people there that I still connect with today, and that's 25 years later. and basically just learning the personal lived journeys needs of everyone there is what was life changing for me. It was a diversity retreat and it was getting that individual perspective. So when I hit 45, I said, I'm going to do what I wanted to do my whole life. Speaker 2 00:02:11  I'm going to host retreats. And I was also in corporate. I already host leadership trainings. I created Elevate Her, I host the global mentorship program and did a lot of trainings and learning and development for corporate women. So I'm taking that out of practice and doing it and hosting retreats of my dreams. So that is why I started. Speaker 1 00:02:36  Yay! You know what I love about this is that over 20 years ago, you had the spark and you're bringing it to fruition. And I think sometimes people, whether you're 40, 50, 60, 70, it doesn't even matter whatever your age is. But women, especially whatever that number is, that age in our head and we're like, yeah, I'm too old to do this now, you know? And I just, I call bullshit on that because there isn't an age that's too old. There just isn't. Okay. There isn't. And so, Kelly, I'm so, so glad that you were following your dreams now. And you're hosting these retreats because. Speaker 1 00:03:16  Yeah, I met Kelly in France, as I mentioned, and her energy is yummy. Like, I just cannot even put it into proper words. And so spending time with her on retreat, I'm sure, would be a joy, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today, because Kelly and I in France, we were talking about some of the things that might be missing from a retreat leader's life, as far as you know, being the best version of them. And one of those things is focusing on joy. So, Kelly, can you just kind of talk to us a little bit more about this? Speaker 2 00:03:50  Oh for sure. So as a retreat leader, you are facilitating the transformation of others on your retreat. And when you're doing that, that is having a requirement for you to hold space. And a lot of times, especially right now. Everything is so the world is messy and it's heavy. And every five seconds there's breaking news about something. And what that does is that triggers our nervous system to go into fight or flight. Speaker 2 00:04:22  And it makes all of this anxiety and worry and fear come into our energetic field and build up in us. And when we have all this heaviness and fear and anxiety and we dysregulated our nervous system, that is what causes us to basically not be able to hold that space. As retreat leaders, we need to know how to step out of the grind, to step out of burnout to start with self-care so that we when we show up on retreat, we are the best version of ourselves. And that's when we talk about anchoring into joy. Because what is joy and what is required for you to actually experience joy? You have to feel safe, right? You have to feel your nervous system has to feel good for you to even get to experience joy. And once you get there, that is when expansiveness comes. That is when you're in flow. That is when you can give and pour into other people's cups. Speaker 1 00:05:37  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. Speaker 1 00:05:42  I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love this on so many levels. You are right, the world is messy. That's a really good way of putting it. I think the world's always messy, but it just feels extra loud. You know, at the moment. we've definitely in our lifetime, Kelly, we have seen some extra loud moments. probably. Maybe. You know, I'm sure more than previous decades. Only in the sense even that it's just so damn accessible. Too accessible in some ways. Speaker 1 00:06:43  Yeah. But yes, that and also I want to piggyback on this because as Kelly knows, this last month has been really very difficult for me. I've had some losses and and when we're in those spaces, whether it's heaviness from the world and our nervous system is disruptive or very personalized heaviness and we're disrupted. I think it's important that we remember that's not the time to create when we're in that space, when we're in that space of full disruption, full nervous system panic, whatever you want to call it. That's not the time to reach out. That's as far as reaching out to your, marketing efforts or your creation efforts or whatever may be the case. Maybe that's when you rely on a team member and you're like, hey, I need you to step up for me, or you hire it out for that moment, or you just take a break. But it's like, we need to honor that. There are times in life we're going to push, right? We're going to push through things. Speaker 1 00:07:38  You know, you stub your toe, push through it, whatever. But there are also times when your nervous system is telling you, okay, we we can't we can't go on. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 2 00:07:48  Yes. And it's so important that we learn to honor that in ourselves, because we have to learn how that we can honor that in our participants and see that and help them through that. In a lot of times, especially in the world right now, it's the hustle bustle. We got to go. We're we're women entrepreneurs, right? So we have a lot of big goals, a lot of big dreams. And I know that we hustle a lot. We're always kind of like, I gotta get this done and do that. And we don't take or make the space always to breathe, to anchor in, to return to our body out of our mind. And that causes those cortisol levels to rise, the anxiety, the panic. And it takes a toll on your physical and mental health and is so important for us to listen to our body, to rest like you said, to take a break and rest and recalibrate Because we're able to come back stronger than before. Speaker 2 00:08:48  It's so important. Speaker 1 00:08:51  Yeah. This is such a good reminder to me sometimes I

In this candid episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Pilates studio owner and retreat host Misty Chambers to unpack the highs and lows of her first-ever retreat. From a surprise challenge with a sick guest to navigating meal budgets in the Champagne region of France, Misty shares everything she wishes she had known—and what she’ll absolutely do differently next time. They talk about the importance of having personal space as a retreat leader, hiring a retreat coordinator, setting realistic expectations around meals, and most importantly: why retreat leaders must sell, not just market, their experiences. This is an honest, refreshing conversation that every retreat leader—especially those in their early retreat-hosting days—will deeply relate to.   Connect with Misty: www.breatheriveroaks.com   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Full Transcript  Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. It's Shannon and I'm super excited to have a guest today. That is another Fellow of France Retreat member. I met her in France and fell in love with her and her energy, and I'm super excited to have her on the show because she's going to be super vulnerable with us. Y'all. and share with us something that a lot of retreat leaders hesitate to share about, or they just don't even want to talk about it sometimes, or they make it sound different than it was. And that is learning through our first retreat and how we would want to do it maybe differently. Speaker 1 00:01:01  And just we're going to go dig right into it. So welcome, Misty to the show. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm so excited to see your face again. It's not the same as France, but I am glad to see your face. before we get started into this topic, just tell us a little bit about who you are and, you know, give us a little bit of a taste of what? What makes Misty. Misty. Yeah. So my name is Misty chambers. I live in Houston, Texas and have a brick and mortar Pilates studio there. I have been in the movement industry, most of my life. started off, teaching dance and then got into yoga and pilates and, along the way, I've done interior design and, and now retreats. So, I've kind of had a, a long little detour of things that have gotten to me where I am now. And, So, yeah, it's a little bit about me. I think all of us have that to some degree. Speaker 1 00:02:07  If I talked about all the different hats that I've worn until I got to the space. And it's funny because all the hats I have worn helped me in the space that I am in today. And I think that just is kind of how it is. So, so Misty, you just recently had your very first retreat, you hosted your very first retreat. You were actually when you left us in France, you were headed to host your retreat. And. Exactly. Yeah. Through that process, we kind of all you were keeping us all in the loop during this retreat on Voxer. And my heart was like, oh, my poor Misty, because I feel like the universe was showing you, like all the things that could possibly make you cranky about hosting a retreat. It was definitely a learning experience. Yes, but part of what we're going to talk about is a lot of times, retreat leaders think that their first retreat is like going to be that that. Speaker 2 00:03:02  Oh, all. Speaker 1 00:03:03  You know, like this is it. Speaker 1 00:03:04  This is exactly how it's going to be. I'm so excited. You know, there might have been 1 or 2 things, but, you know, this is it. And it's like, that's not always the case. As a matter of fact, I would say more often than not, after you host your first retreat, you're like, first of all, do I even want to keep doing this? Second of all, how can I, you know, change all these different things? And so anyway, Misty, let's just start off with maybe your very first thing that you were like, okay, this is what happened and this is what I plan to do differently in the future. Sure. And to feed off of what you said a second ago, I don't know if you got if you remember in the box or chat. after the retreat, I was like, I don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I want to host another retreat because I had such a challenging time with this one. Speaker 1 00:03:53  And, I think one of the things that made it so difficult is that one of one of my guest was ill, and she was very challenging to deal with because she did not feel good. She was not, nice to me. She wasn't nice to her tour guide. She we stayed at a hotel. She was not nice to the hotel staff, and it just made the energy very low. And like, we were walking on eggshells. And I one of the the first things in dealing with that, I would say that I have learned is that I don't want to stay at the same place, like I did. we we were staying at the same hotel. I, in fact, was just two doors down from, this woman. And I would want to hole up in my room when we were not doing anything because I didn't want to, you know, I needed some downtime to myself. And so, one lesson learned is that I think I would, stay either at another hotel or make sure that I was in a room in a different part of the hotel. Speaker 1 00:05:05  If you're or if you're doing a retreat venue staying offsite. just to give yourself a little bit of decompression time. yeah. So I love this. Before we keep digging in, I realized we didn't really share kind of what what your retreats entail. And so you're misty. You focus primarily on travel and culture experiences. And I remember when you and I talked, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is my jam. Like, it's it's not a travel guide. It's like a travel guide on steroids, right? I don't even I don't even like using the word travel guide. It's it's an experience that you're providing, you know, where it's got all elements of the retreat, what would be considered a retreat. It just doesn't have maybe a retreat transformation at the end so much as an immersion in this really cool place space, you know, and so anyway, so it includes, you know, lots of different aspects of it, the excursions and exploring and the meals and conversations. But it's just, you know. Speaker 1 00:06:08  It's a it's a travel and culture immersion. So I just I wanted to clarify that. So that way people are like, well, what were you doing in a hotel? Because not everybody does retreats in hotels. Some, some people do. and I also love that you said, because this is something that I talk about all the time when it comes to hosting retreats is retreat. Leaders have to have a separate space, at minimum, a completely separate room. Right? Because I've had I've seen retreat leaders where they're sharing rooms in co shared spaces, like with their retreat guests. And I just do not think that's a good idea. So at minimum you have to have a separate room like here on the ranch. It's a whole separate building at the back of the property. It's the retreat leader's apartment. They have their own own little kitchenette, even, like it's just a space where they can kind of, regroup, reset, retreat themselves. So that way they can show up as their best selves. Speaker 1 00:06:55  So I'm really glad that you said that. And then there are retreat leaders like Aaron, who's who. We met each other through where she even stays off site. So she might be a few houses down from the house or the venue that she's using, or whatever may be the case, so she can completely decompress and she's got someone on point like Matt, which I think Matt was her retreat coordinator, which I think was one of the points that you were going to make to Misty is having a retreat coordinator, right? Yes. Again, because I had a guest that was ill. I was having to, manage her, like finding a doctor. her husband also came. they wanted an extra room so they didn't have to sleep in the same room since she was sick. So just navigating all these, different, things that were unexpected. We also had to pivot the activities that we were doing. Now, I did have a tour guide that I had for three days during the retreat. she was local there, and, she was fantastic and did help with, the pivoting of the activities and stuff. Speaker 1 00:08:09  But it would have been helpful had I had, you know, some like Daysha Danzy or Matt Quinonez, who I hope I said his name correctly and right. Who, who, does this retreat coordination. That can be your point of contact, who can handle all those things so that you can be fully present for your other guests and not take time away trying to juggle all these, pivots. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's h

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by social media strategist and author Robin Nathaniel (@robbinmarx) to dig into what it really takes to build a retreat brand that thrives online—without having to chase every trend. Robin brings two decades of experience in social media and shares how to focus on authentic, audience-focused content that stands out in an AI-driven world. From aligning your content with your brand's voice to Robin's powerful SYNC framework (Simple, Yield, Natural, Change), this episode is packed with gems for retreat leaders who want to grow their impact without burning out online. They also discuss: The myth of “going viral” and why it’s overrated How to identify your content bandwidth and platform sweet spot Why “100% human-made” content is gaining new value The power of speaking directly to your audience like a best friend A sneak peek into Robin’s Social Media Sync Bundle, made just for you! Grab your free Social Media Sync Bundle from Robin: landthetalk.com Connect with Robin: Website: https://robinnathaniel.com/   The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify   -------- Full Transcript Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to The Retreat Leader's podcast. I'm excited because I have another amazing guest today in. My guest is going to be talking about something that I think 99.999% of the people who are in our space think it's one of the most important aspects of marketing and growing your retreat business. And I would agree with you, although I also think email is important, but we are going to talk about social media. And so welcome, Robin Nathaniel to the show. Speaker 2 00:00:54  Thank you so much for having me, Shannon. I'm pumped to talk to your audience about social media, and I'm confident that they'll walk away with some value today. Speaker 1 00:01:03  That's fantastic. Robin, why don't you just first start off by telling us a little bit about who you are and what brought you to this space that you're in now. Speaker 2 00:01:10  Yep. So I started my career off in music. I was a performer as well as an event organiser and a producer. And then in 2010, I had my first child, my, my, my son. And when he was born, I was like, I need to get a job. So I switched gears and joined the non-profit field, and I moved up in non-profit leadership. And then the pandemic hit. When the pandemic hit, me and my family left our busy life in New York City to move down to the green pastures of the Atlanta area. And I reset and, shifted from my career in nonprofit leadership to finally take a hold of my marketing, career, which I have a degree in which I had been doing social media since the days of Myspace and Friendster and just led me down this path of social media leadership. Speaker 2 00:01:59  Now I lead a small team for local government with social media, and I also have an independent boutique agency where we support mission driven organizations and nonprofit with social media solutions. Speaker 1 00:02:09  Oh my goodness. I love so much about this, and I love that you've been in the industry for as long as you have, because and I think it even said it on your website somewhere when I was doing some research, like it's, it's not heard of for someone to be in the social media space for over 20 years. So how have you hung on this long? I have to know. Speaker 2 00:02:30  First of all, it's just like interest, right? So me getting into social media early, I got to see the beginning with sites like Friendster and Myspace, even six degrees before that. Right? And what I found was the power of being able to communicate with people in another place with a push of a button just blew me away, and I knew that there was going to be something there, so I just had a general interest for it. Speaker 2 00:02:55  I think when I started getting into it on an academic level because I was an adult learner for college and I had to like write papers around social, do research. It just opened my mind on a whole, on a whole nother level. And I believe that's what separates me from other people in the industry. And if people read my book, they'll see some of my philosophies kind of butt heads with what the quote unquote gurus are saying in the space. I have some conflicting messages and we'll talk more about it, but generally it's just the love for being able to impact people all over the world. Speaker 1 00:03:29  Okay, well, I'm glad that you are here, and I'm glad that you're in this space and that you've been in this space for this long. I have been a user since the Myspace days. I did start in marketing when Facebook first became kind of like to me, it seemed like the very first real engine of social media marketing. This is well over ten years ago. And so I've been marketing in the the social media space since then. Speaker 1 00:03:55  However, it has been hard as hell for me to keep up. I'll just be honest with you. The algorithms change. The expectations change. The rules change what works. Change is a new platforms on the horizon, you know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many moving parts now. Compared to when I used to just spend 100 bucks on Facebook and get a really good return. And so keeping up has got to be something I don't know. That's its own beast. Speaker 2 00:04:20  It really is. And I and one thing that I mentioned early on in my book is that I work in this space, right? Like literally I wake up in the morning at 5 a.m. and I'm all, I'm all social media until I lay down right and I can't keep up. So don't feel bad. Just know that it moves so fast. And especially with the, the rise of AI, it's just increasing the pace of the, the growth and and and this the platform changes. So that's why in my teaching and in my philosophy, I focus on a concept that I call algorithm proof content instead of people becoming, you know, essentially slaves to what the platforms are doing or liking. Speaker 2 00:05:01  Just focusing on human connection through their content and creating strong, intentional relationships with their audience. Speaker 1 00:05:09  Okay, now you're speaking my language. So let's let's dig into it. Let's talk about some strategies. Did you want to start there with this algorithm proof concept or or talk to me. What do you want to start with. Speaker 2 00:05:19  Yeah we can start with algorithm proof content. So one thing that I found in all of my years in social is that folks are glued to what the next big thing is. For example, years ago when Snapchat first came out, people were hyped about Snapchat and then Instagram totally stole their model, which they often do, right? And then they created stories and then everyone shifted the stories. So what I felt like is that essentially we're on this seesaw. Whichever way it's going, we're going to slide to that end. And when the weight shifts, we slide with it. And what happens is you get seasick. You're like you. You know, like we're overwhelmed. We're confused. Speaker 2 00:06:02  We don't know which way to go. And we're just back and forth on this social media seesaw, if you will. And what I found is that staying in the center and identifying the fact that the one unique proposition value proposition that you will have in whatever business you do, whether it's organizing retreats or whether you sell donuts, is you is the person behind the brand, the the the person who fuels the wheels. And if we can lean into that and really find a way to communicate directly with our ideal target audience, that we create algorithm proof content, regardless of the platform, regardless of the medium. You can write it, you can videotape it, you can take a picture of it. It's still going to be authentically you. Speaker 1 00:06:48  So you are speaking my language on so many fronts. The first one really being just being you. Like, don't try to be someone else. Don't try to copy this thing that looks really good or is doing really well. Don't try to follow just all the trends in the whatever. Speaker 1 00:07:03  Like you can use some of this information, but it has to be authentically you. It has to have your voice, your spin, your whatever. So I love that. And then in conjunction with that, making sure that it is speaking to your ideal audience, you know, like I can't tell you how many times someone's like, oh, I did this post and it's really, really good. And I look at it, I'm like, it has nothing to do with your business at all. Like, you're doing it on socks and you're over here trying to sell, you know, mental health strategies or whatever. And so it has to be directed directly to your target audience. It has to be authentic to you. And I love that. That is like the whole concept behind algorithm proof, because you're right. If you're speaking to your people, like literally someone who's looking, looking, listening, watching, whatever, if they're feeling like, man, she or he is speaking directly to me, it doesn't matter what the algorithm is doing, right? Speaker 2 00:07:54  It really

In this fiery solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth many retreat leaders need to hear: the biggest block in your retreat business isn’t the economy—it’s you. If you’ve ever said, “People just aren’t spending right now,” or felt tempted to lower your prices just to fill spots—this one’s for you. Shannon breaks down the mindset shift that will transform the way you sell your retreats and communicate their true value. She’ll show you how to stop apologizing for your prices, own your worth, and confidently sell your retreat as the life-changing investment it is. Whether you’re hosting your first retreat or scaling your next, this episode is your invitation to stop shrinking and start standing in your power. Tune in and get ready to ditch the discount mindset and step fully into the role of transformational leader.   Episode Highlights: Why the economy isn’t the problem (and what is) How perceived value impacts retreat sales What it means to “sell the transformation, not the features” The #1 thing you need to shift before trying another promotion How to speak to your ideal client’s soul—and not the bargain shopper’s wallet   Read our full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/the-biggest-block-in-your-retreat-business-is-you-not-the-economy/     The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats Join our private Facebook Group Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide Get your legal docs for retreats Join Shannon in London  Join our LinkedIn Group Apply to be a guest on our show   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify