DiscoverThe Business of Family
The Business of Family

The Business of Family

Author: Mike Boyd

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Mike Boyd interviews successful families and their advisors to learn how they steward their wealth across generations, managing succession issues to "keep it in the family".
Very few family businesses do the work and even fewer make it beyond the third generation.
Follow along to learn about family governance structures, family office investing, succession planning and raising happy, healthy and enterprising children of wealth.
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40 Episodes
Frazer Rice ( is a Regional Director for Pendleton Square Trust Company ( In that capacity, he focuses on trustee, fiduciary and family governance issues for wealthy families. He is the author and podcast host of "Wealth, Actually (" which centers on decision-making for wealthy families The podcast interviews wealth experts and entrepreneurial families and individuals. Standout Quotes: * "Something that's happening industry-wide or at least in the US is the concept that being a corporate trustee is a different business than the asset management side of wealth management" - [Frazer] * "Most of the trust planning is articulating a move at the minimum from Gen 1 to Gen 2" - [Frazer] * "I view the Trust and the planning around the Trust to be an outgrowth, when done correctly, of a solid communication structure that has been developed within the family" - [Frazer] * "What the family bank approach is offering to families is a way for them to pass on their intellectual their human capital, the next generation by having them apply for the financial capital" - [Mike] * "If the kids see what's important to the other kids early, and attach a dollar manifestation around that, I think that you're building the context so you have fewer blow-ups later on" - [Frazer] * "I think the most important thing anyone can have in their lifestyle is the ability to be comfortable in their own skin" - [Frazer] Key Takeaways: * Frazer shares his background and experiences so far, from college to working in politics, after which he decided to study law and gained exposure while working in different firms. His career started down the path of wealth management when he worked with a Trust company. * He is also the author of the book "Wealth Actually" and the host of a podcast that discusses topics related to finance and wealth management even though that was not the initial plan for the podcast. * Pendleton Square Trust is an administrative Trust company that fulfills the function in a Trustee role aimed at helping families get access to good Tennessee jurisdiction. * 3 main Functions of a Trustee: First is the administrative function which includes safeguarding and reporting on assets, paying the taxes. The Second is the distribution of the asset to beneficiaries. The third function is the investment management of the asset which is excluded at Pendleton, Frazer believes most places don't do everything well. * A trustee does not have to be a corporation, it can be an individual acting as a trustee with the ability to perform all 3 key functions, however, it may be difficult to find one person who is great at all functions. * A lot of families would prefer to have more control, and a private trust company allows them to control the aspects they're comfortable with and outsource the rest. * There is a possible conflict where corporate trustees who also provide asset management services invariably provide their asset management services. * The most common customer for the company is a US family that is either actively transferring wealth from the first generation to the second generation or generally has a multi-generational approach. * For those families that have taken their hands off the wheel in terms of managing the wealth, the Trust company operates more like a family office but for those still actively engaged in the continuation of the business, that business becomes the real center of the family office. * One of the real destroyers of wealth is bad communication amongst the family, this leads to conflict, which leads to litigation and litigation is expensive * There's a lot of good work that needs to be done ahead of building the structures so that you're not only setting something up that takes care of the money for the family, you're also getting the family ready for the money. * Family or Shared Philanthropy is one of the tools that helps to work with families as it gets the family members to express their interests and helps them work together while considering the needs of each other. * The Vacation Fund Concept: This is another tool, and the idea is to have the kids make a joint decision around the investment of money by getting them to plan the vacation based on a particular amount available. It helps identify which kids have aptitude and interest, the aggressive or conservative ones, and other responses exhibited by the kids towards the task. Summarily the kids get involved in financial planning and learn critical points related to it. * The idea of a Family Bank is putting structure around the request of money for projects so that it forces preparedness in front of real people who have to make a decision. Learning that persuasion is important helps the next generation to deal with the real world. * It also provides an opportunity to combat the situation of assets growing linearly being overtaken by liabilities growing geometrically, as more opportunities explored can increase the growth of assets. * There's a big difference between Operational succession and Ownership Succession of a family business, the difference in roles may mean some people get paid more but this needs to be discussed earlier on before the transition period. * From Frazer to his kids: I think the most important thing anyone can have in their lifestyle is the ability to be comfortable in their skin. The concept of trying to please other people's sense of success is a difficult road because you're never going to please everyone all the time, more so you will be running from things that could be your path to success. o * Run your own race, be comfortable in your own skin. Episode Timeline: * [00:46] Introducing today's guest, Frazer Rice, Regional Director for Pendleton Square Trust Company. * [07:26] About Pendleton Square Trust Company and Wealth Management. * [08:46] The 3 main functions of a Trustee. * [11:21] In the US, do families have to appoint a company to act as Trustee in an administrative capacity. * [12:16] The concept of a Private Trust Company. * [18:54] Who would you say is your most common customer? * [28:02] Frazer shares tools used when working with families. * [32:51] The Vacation Fund Concept. * [38:40] Frazer's insight on a Family Bank. * [47:57] Frazer's letter to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Frazer Rice.
Grossman Marketing Group ( was founded as Massachusetts Envelope Company in 1910 by Maxwell Grossman (, whose lifelong dream was to own his own business. Now, 111 years since its founding, Ben Grossman, along with his brother, David, are the 4th generation of family leadership. Today, the company is a full-service resource helping clients with a broad range of traditional and digital marketing needs. Ben Grossman holds a BA from Princeton University and an MBA from Columbia Business School. Prior to Columbia, Ben worked as a strategy consultant to Fortune 500 clients, as well as started and sold a sportswear and marketing firm. Ben is also deeply involved in sustainability and how it relates to business, and writes and speaks frequently on the topic. Standout Quotes: * "Our prices make friends and our service keeps them" - [Ben] * "What he was really saying was that life is made up 3 things; Family, Career, and Community, and education has always been of critical importance to our family" - [Ben] * "Find a way to generate revenue as soon as possible because numbers speak for themselves and no one will ever question your existence at the organization if you generate sales and gross profit" - [Ben] * "Learn the business, understand exactly what's going on in the business, so when you speak up you know what you're talking about, and you're right!" - [Ben] * "What our grandfather and our father tried to impart in us is that although business is incredibly important, nothing in business is important enough to ever risk jeopardizing your family relationships" - [Ben] * "That sort of value of just 'try and treat people the way you'd want your family to be treated' has been passed down from generation to generation" - [Ben] * "Regardless of how successful you are, or your family's been over the years, you need to recognize that markets can change and you must always remain responsive to customers' needs" - [Ben] * "Ultimately, we have to be willing to evolve because if we don't evolve, we will get left behind" - [Ben] * "Always do right, this will gratify some people and astonish the rest" - [Ben] Key Takeaways: * The company has always had a service-driven culture and this has kept the business going for over 110 years. * Ben explains that the company had initially started as an envelope company and had also bought up different companies during its growth, with the investment in promotional products being the most notable that boosted growth. * Following his education, Ben had decided to step out and gain some experience although he was passionate about finally going back to join the family business. * Ben explains that based on lessons from his great grandfather, Life is made up of 3 things, Family, Career, and Community. Education has always been of critical importance to the family. * The "Start, Stop, Continue" Review Method: Ben had asked workers to review the company's methods to identify processes that needed to be implemented, stopped, or continued for better productivity. * Ben shares that following political engagements, his father moved on from the family business and is fully engaged in public service. He adds that working harmoniously with his brother is aided by the understanding that every win is for the company and not the individual, and also their roles tend to be complementary to each other. * Understanding that it was necessary to establish credibility by generating profits immediately after joining the family business, Ben reached out to some prospects and started to achieve his goal within a month. * One of the critical values imparted by their grandfather was the understanding that business should never jeopardize family relationships. * Another key value learned was the importance of treating colleagues the way family would be treated in a workplace. * You need to be willing to adapt to ever-changing business environments and conditions. Ben remembers how the family had always focused on the customer, and that what differentiated their company was the incredible customer service. * Highlighting the involvements of different family members in service to the community, Ben explains that service to the community is one of the values that have been passed down each generation beginning from the Founder. * Considering the future, the most meaningful investment made in recent times has been expanding into e-commerce. * Ben shares he would give his children the same advice he got from his grandparents regarding joining the business, and this is to do what their heart wants to do, follow their career path, and not be constrained to join the business based on the financial implications. * From Ben to his kids: Always do right, this will gratify some people and astonish the rest Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Introducing today's guest Ben Grossman, and Grossman Marketing Group, the Massachusetts envelope company. * [01:40] The history of the Grossman family business. * [07:05] Ben narrates how he and his brother joined the business. * [11:52] As brothers, how do you get along and what roles do you each play today in the business? * [21:54] A listening tour: Using the "Start, Stop, Continue" Review Method. * [25:36] Do you have any apparent failures that have set you up for later success? * [32:15] Ben describes the family history of service to the community. * [37:58] Has the family been intentional about documenting its history? * [39:30] How do you pivot and evolve a marketing group like yours into the 21st century and beyond? * [43:43] Are you nurturing your children to be the 5th generation of the business or leaving it to them to find their path? * [48:35] A letter to Ben's Kids. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Ben Grossman.
With one of the most recognisable family names in Australian business circles Berry Liberman is using her financial capital to make a positive impact in the world. Her family office, Small Giants, is 100% invested in Impact ventures - challenging the traditional notion of "do anything to make it and then give it all away" philanthropy. Berry Liberman ( is the co-founder and Creative Director of Small Giants ( and the Publisher and Editor of Dumbo Feather ( magazine. Small Giants was founded in 2007 to create, support, nurture and empower businesses that are contributing to the world in a meaningful way. Dumbo Feather is a labour of love. Designed, edited and printed in Melbourne, Australia, it is a quarterly journal highlighting the stories of extraordinary people, living lives of passion and commitment to changing the world we live in. "We spent our first decade growing a collective of businesses committed to positive change, including Impact Investment Group, The Sociable Weaver, Dumbo Feather and The School of Life. Our focus has been moving capital from the old economy to the next. We’ve sought to prove that a business can be profitable while remaining purpose driven and ensuring value for all stakeholders, including the environment. Likewise, we’ve found time and time again that value can be created without investing in extractive industries." Standout Quotes: * "Family was Business, and Business was family, it was one thing" - [Berry] * "Both my parents in a way saw work as service, you contributed to the society that you were lucky enough to live in" - [Berry] * "When you go to your grave, you go with only one thing, and that's your name" - [Berry] * "If you know your shadow self, there isn't anything that can take you by surprise " - [Berry] * "I wanted to do big work, and I didn't want to be afraid, and I knew that the thing that scared me most was everything that was happening on the inside of me" - [Berry] * "One of the things about family businesses is they're often a massive spaghetti ball, and all of the spaghetti is interwoven into all the other spaghetti and it's very hard to separate" - [Berry] * "Business and Financial capital can be a force for good in the world" - [Berry] * "We didn't have the language for it at the time but we had the intuition, that growth at any cost, that the extraction economy, was coming to an end" - [Berry] * "Money in families is complicated, and Family Business is complicated, and it's never about the money, it's about the people and the relationships and the emotional maturity of those people" - [Berry] * "We are the custodians, not of financial capital that is our entitlement, but the financial capital that is handed from one generation to the next, much like fresh air and fresh water, we are custodians" - [Berry] * "Impact investing is a paradigm shift, it's not an asset class, and once you make that shift in your mind, you can't do anything but invest that way" - [Berry] * "You are the company you keep" - [Berry] * "I would tell them not to hate anyone, ever, and to love hard, I don't think you lose anything when you love" - [Berry] Key Takeaways: * In a true 'rags to riches' story of how the family clothing business began, Berry describes how her grandfather alongside the family, used to recycle the unsellable silk stockings discarded by a company, and eventually caused a shift in demand in his favor. * Berry shares that she was raised perceiving business as fun, and something that involved the whole family. Unfortunately following the crash in 1991, the impact weighed equally upon the family. * She narrates how she was able to forge her path outside the norm, because there was very little attention on her, especially following the passing of her father and ensuing family changes. * As for her psychotherapy, It became clear there was a need to answer pertinent questions about herself and sort through unresolved issues personally. "I wanted to do big work, and I didn't want to be afraid, and I knew that the thing that scared me most was everything that was happening on the inside of me". She also disclosed that ultimately she wanted to be her own person but she didn't want to do it at the expense of family harmony. * By the time Berry stepped in to join the family business, seeing how it was being run, she knew she wanted to do things differently. * Narrating the events surrounding the inception of the company "Small Giants", Berry highlights the deep concern that was born following her knowledge of very critical climate issues, and this ignited a passion to create a better world for her kids to live in. * It's an intergenerational project and the main goal is to become a good ancestor if you're a person of privilege and you have the resources. * Much like with the financial capital that is handed from one generation to another in family businesses, we are also custodians of the fresh air and water handed down to us. * Mike shares that the phrase "Stewardship" comes from environmental sustainability and so aptly applies in the context of this conversation. * Berry explains that Philanthropy means "love of humankind" and in her view should be a whole portfolio vision; love of humankind with everything you have. * "The Doughnut Economy" by Kate Raworth: This book describes a metaphor that likens the outer part of a doughnut to the bounds of the environment, and the inner part to society. Kate suggests living in the sweet spot between the bounds of ecology and human flourishing, such that you can engage in business but with more accountability built-in. * The pillars of investments by Small Giants include Food and agriculture, Energy, Finance, and the Built environment. * While Berry admits that little effort has been put into planning for the future as regards her kids being involved in the family office, she notes that doesn't want them to do Small Giants necessarily. She would rather they had the same freedom she had, to go on their journey, with full support to become themselves fully. * Berry emphasizes the importance of talking to her children; "No topic is out of bounds, and I will let myself be challenged by my children because they've got a pretty good compass" * Recent research shows that Kids that know where they come from, and particularly the trials and tribulations of prior generations, are usually resilient as a result. * From Berry to her kids: "I would tell them not to hate anyone, ever, and to love hard, I don't think you lose anything when you love" Episode Timeline: * [00:54] About today's guest, Berry Liberman. * [02:30] Berry describes her family origins. * [09:07] What were the key building blocks along the path to the growth of the business empire? * [15:00] Could you tell us where you started, and what you wanted to do with your wealth as regards the impact you wanted to have on the world? * [25:37] Berry describes the structure at the family table when she stepped in. * [38:58] What are some of the impact investments you have made? * [41:55] How do we ensure there is a return so that we can keep on doing good? * [47:36] Small Giants' Pillars of Investment * [51:22] Do you anticipate your kids getting involved in the Small Giants family office? * [56:50] Has the documentation of your family history been intentional so far? * [59:50] A letter from Berry to her kids. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Berry Liberman.
An award-winning professional speaker and author of The Seller’s Journey ( A Business Fable about Navigating the Emotional Obstacles to Selling Your Business, Denise Logan ( has addressed audiences on three continents about the psychology of business owners and how to make it easier when the time comes to let go. Known as The Seller Whisperer, she draws upon a twenty year body of work focused on the intersection of work, money, and meaning and how it is reflected in the legacies of today’s business leaders. She has rightly observed that while work is where we spend the majority of our time, much of it is spent wishing we were somewhere else, doing something else. Divorcing meaning from our work too often leaves us blindly trudging through a mediocre life using money as the miserly arbiter of success in matters of soul and meaning. It leads to an endless chase for more, hoping to outsmart death and desperately prove that our life somehow mattered. Even worse, when work is how we define ourselves and we are faced with job loss or impending retirement, it can seem terrifying. What happens when your old answer to the question “What Do You Do?” no longer fits? If you thought you are what you do, and suddenly you don’t do it anymore, do you not exist? Standout Quotes: * "Every family's dynamic is slightly different and always the same" - [Denise] * "So as fear starts to escalate, our thinking is disrupted" - [Denise] * "The best transitions happen 5 years before someone is ready" - [Denise] * "The reality is that every owner will exit their business, voluntarily or involuntarily... so you will either transition to someone or you will leave your business with it being unprepared" - [Denise] * "if we look at mortality issues, often the more mortality resistance that someone has , the higher the likelihood is that they will also be avoiding succession planning" * One of the questions I start early on with an owner is ''what does work provide for you, beyond the money?... where will you get those needs met outside the business?" - [Denise] * "Succession happens at all different ages" - [Denise] * "Are we simply creating roles in the business so family members have work to do, as opposed to are they the right people in the business?" - [Denise] * "Change is hard at first, messy in the middle and gorgeous at the end" - [Mike] * "Transparency always works, it is always better" - [Denise] * "The arc of the journey for an owner is the same, whether we're talking about a $50000 hair salon or 500 million-dollar company, the arc of transition that's happening for someone is the same" * "Transition will happen no matter what, so the question is 'what kind of transition do you want to have as a business owner?'" * "Success is often determined by how prepared you are rather than just letting it be" - [Mike] * "Our legacy comes from our daily actions, it is not just the amount of money that we leave behind or the money that we have accumulated" - [Denise] * "We can often get completely spun up on what our number is, the number is not the number in the bank account, the number is the number of memories that we have left behind because that is truly how we will be remembered" - [Denise] Key Takeaways: * Denise started as a mental health professional and then moved into practicing Law where she started her firm but sold because she lost interest in the business. This prompted her to start a road trip till she was invited to help build a friend's business before the sale, an experience that kick-started her work of helping owners transition during the sale of their businesses. It also inspired her book, "The Seller's Journey". * Using the analogy of a fist, Denise likens the fear center in the brain, 'the Amygdala' to the thumb of the hand, pointing out that while the other fingers could restrict the thumb's movements the same way the frontal cortex can restrict the Amygdala, excessive pressure from the thumb or the Amygdala, in this case, can break free of the restraint, leaving the fear to roam free. This explains the chaotic nature exhibited by people, typical of family dynamics. * Another description using the hand involves the 5 ways through which fear shows up, the 5 fingers are used to represent them; Fight Flight Freeze Fawn, and Submit. Individually, there are often 2 or 3 of them that function more as natural go-to responses when facing fear, anger, or stress. * The anchor, Wave, and Island styles of attachment: An Anchor attachment is someone who can tolerate too close or too far. An Island attachment is the type of person who pulls away or isolates themselves when things get rough. A wave attachment describes a person who reacts to disruption by continually checking on others. * It is necessary to identify needs that are met by the business beyond the money because there is concern about how these needs will be met outside the business, and this could often form the basis for the continuous attachment to the business. * Addressing the handling of messy parts of the conversation, Denise emphasizes the importance of honesty and transparency in allaying the fears that may misguide people's actions in the family. * The 'O-MY' syndrome (One More Year) occurs where a seller repeatedly creates reasons to delay their exit from the business whenever they get closer to the agreed time of sale. This is a signal that something else is going on, a different existential crisis and there are needs to be met. * The moment that you cease to exist is when the last person who has a story to tell about you passes. * Money matters, but it's not the only thing that matters. * There will always be a story that is told about you, the question is "is it the story that you would like to have told about you?" * From Denise to her kids: The way you will know that you were loved was by how you were held and how you were cared for, not by what I left you. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Meet today's guest, "Denise Logan" a.k.a 'the Seller Whisperer'. * [01:45] An overview of the journey to becoming "the Seller Whisperer". * [08:52] Denise's 'fist' analogy in describing the role of fear in the brain. * [11:30] The 5 Appearances of Fear. * [14:10] The anchor, Wave, and Island styles of attachment. * [18:10] Do families typically find you when a transition is already underway or as they're contemplating a transition or an exit? * [33:23] How do you handle the messy aspects of the discussion? * [45:30] How often do sellers get caught up on a particular figure that they will only sell at? * [50:39] Discussing the success of transitions generally. * [01:00:56] A letter from Denise For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Denise Logan.
Julie Charlestein is a fourth-generation CEO and president of Premier Dental (, a global dental development and manufacturing company serving the worldwide oral health professional market since 1913. Julie is the first woman and the fourth generation of the Charlestein family to lead the company. Since accepting the position as CEO, Julie has implemented changes to adapt to the times, and advanced its product line to advance Premier's market impact. The Charlestein family have adopted an interesting ownership and control structure for Premier which Julie has kindly agreed to discuss with us today. Standout Quotes: * "Even though I had proved myself and worked in the company for 15 years before I became CEO...people were still looking at me like did I deserve to be there?" - [Julie] * "The way that the transitions are the easiest is when everything is written down" - [Julie] * "Giving one person control, I think, removes a lot of the family bickering" - [Mike] * "Remember who you are" - [Julie] * "The dollar is Round" - [Julie] * "I think giving the next generation members the opportunity to opt-in, rather than have an expectation, often creates the greatest want" - [Mike] * To start a revolution, the only solution, evolve" - [Julie] * "Don't let perfect get in the way of good" - [Julie] * "Science doesn't always sell" - [Mike] * "Family is family and that's where you should be connected" - [Julie] Key Takeaways: * The company was started by Julie's grandfather while working for his boss as a Dental Instrument Sharpener and has transitioned from the marketing of dental consumables for other brands to focus on their brand. * Joining the family had never been an expectation by the family or part of Julie's plan, but it was looked upon as a thing of pride for the family. * Julie explains that when it came time to join, she took conscious effort to familiarize herself with the general goals and ideals of the family business * Highlighting factors like her young looks and family background, Julie describes the impression she got when she joined the family business, who thought she didn't deserve to be there. and after working hard, she proved them wrong. * The transition of the business from her father to her was seamless, and void of the typical situation where the prior generation holds on to the business even after completing the transition process in writing. Julie also notes the critical role of ensuring all processes involving transition are penned down in legal documents. * While getting together as a family is pivotal for a family business and is being inculcated, there is room for improvement. * Julie's Family Value: "Remember who you are", you need to have a sense of who you represent including your family, your community, the company. * Another family value from Julie: "The dollar is Round"; this means you can have money now and it can just as easily roll away from you, then roll back towards you. * Describing the evolution of the business under her, Julie explains her goal to make the company more data-driven and consumer-led, through branding, marketing, digitization, and social media. * One key lesson from a significant failure while running the family business was that "Science doesn't always win", as the scientific * superiority of a product does not guarantee sales. This was realized following the creation of a multipurpose dental product, which seemed like it could do everything, but the product only ended up confusing consumers due to a lack of specificity in function. This experience had a strong impact on the parameters surrounding any development within the company. * From Julie to her kids: Remember who you are, The dollar is Round, Respect, and Family ties. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Meet today's guest, Julie Charlestein, a 4th generation CEO. * [01:37] The backstory of Premier Dental Family Business. * [09:28] Growing up, was joining the family business always an expectation? * [14:22] Julie describes the transition of the business from her father to herself. * [24:16] Does the family get together regularly for a family meeting or family council? * [25:27] Are there any key values passed down through the generations that still hold today? * [26:52] Do you do anything intentionally to document the history of the family? * [28:10] Is there a 5th generation already involved or interested in the business? * [29:40] The Evolution of the family business under Julie. * [32:58] Julie describes one of her most significant failures. * [37:25] Is there potentially another chapter for you beyond your journey with the family business? * [38:10] Julie's letter to her kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Julie Charlestein.
Carl Bates ( is Africa's leading educator, appointer and guide of High-Performance boards. As the Founding Partner of Sirdar (, he is world renowned for his practical understanding of governance and is constantly invited to share his knowledge and insight on the subject - in Africa, Sirdar is the largest provider of independent non-executive directors to private companies and family businesses. As a G2 entrepreneur, Carl works closely with his Mother and spouse in his family property business in New Zealand, bringing real world insights to his professional service clients. Carl is particularly passionate about how boards can transform and scale-up privately-held and family companies. Standout Quotes: * "There's a difference between craftsmanship and entrepreneurship" - [Carl] * "And I like the term 'Contribution', it's all about what we have to give and finding ways of being more effective in that" - [Carl] * "I think having a purpose as a business is fundamental to what building longevity in any business is about" - [Carl] * "In businesses, we can see a direct correlation between the makeup of the group of people at the top and the financial performance of the business" - [Carl] * "It is a privilege that a family has when they're right at the beginning of the journey, and they make the decision to become a family business... and they put in place the structures at that point because it's a lot less emotional to argue about something that is 10 or 20 years out, than being in the middle of that thing in 20 years time" - [Carl] * "Families need to define 'well, what does family mean to you?' - [Carl] * "The larger the number of beneficiaries of the family, the bigger the governance framework needs to be at a family level" - [Carl] * "There's no such thing as an 'Original Mistake', there are so many families and so many boards around the world who have done this so many times before you, that rather than try and make an original mistake, go and see what other people have done" - [Carl] Key Takeaways: * Carl recalls he initially had no desire to live in Africa, a few years after this, he repeatedly had cause to travel there on business and realized he had to stay, creating offices all around Africa which help families and companies to develop their boards of directors. * Starting University at 15 years and becoming a chartered accountant by 21 years, he had always wondered why even though each generation of his family had successful entrepreneurs, there was no build-up and transfer of wealth to the next generation. * Knowing most of his great grandparents personally helped instill values that formed the foundation for the role he currently plays in business generally. * Carl shares that the purpose of his family business is giving people a place to call home. * Explaining the benefits and process of introducing new family members. Carl notes that the disparity in the energy levels between him, his wife, and other family members, allows for productivity to be maximized in different areas. * So often the succession planning is focused on when the person passes away, but if we don't take other family members on a journey of understanding the business over time, when the time comes they won't have the understanding of it to enable a successful transition. * The Contribution Compass is a tool used to understand family members as individuals, their personalities, and predict the expected roles they would play in the family. It is also used in business as a commercial tool since there is a direct correlation between the make-up of business leaders in any business and the success of that business. * Regarding the formality surrounding the entry of other family members into the family business, Carl discloses that nothing would be gifted and members would have to buy into the business. He also emphasizes the need to legalize every aspect of this entry as he recommends for his clients too. * I encourage family members to deal with things when they're not topical because that's when it's least emotional. * Regarding planning ahead for families, the best place to start is to understand that being a shareholder doesn't necessarily mean sitting around the board table. It is also important to understand Family Governance from the perspective of defining what family means to each member. * The Governance structure is predominantly focused on determining directly family-related issues but the Operational Board side is driven by the underlying Family business. This is where families go wrong; when they cannot differentiate between Family Governance and Governance of a Profit Generation Entity. * While sometimes the family traditions do serve the purpose of bonding, in other cases, there is some resentment on the expectations from different family members based on such traditions. * From Carl to his kids: It is important to spend time with your grandparents and great grandparents or people connected to them from that generation because there are threads that enable you to understand how your family has developed, and what the core values or cornerstones of success for you family are, through that time of engagement. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Introducing today's guest, Carl Bates * [04:04] Carl shares his professional backstory. * [14:28] The purpose of Carl's family business. * [16:17] Apart from you and your mother, are there other family members involved? * [22:43] The Contribution Compass * [28:00] In terms of families planning ahead, where do we start? * [30:39] Where does the distinction lie between a Family Council and the Operating Board? * [34:33] Differentiating between a Family Council and a Family Forum. * [36:45] What is one of the biggest challenges that families have when trying to put a governance structure in place for the first time? * [38:12] Comparing an Operational Family Business with one that is just "stewarding the wealth". * [43:50] How are families celebrating their uniqueness and traditions over the years? * [48:50] Carl's letter to his kids. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Carl Bates.
Juan Carlos Salame’s family business began in Guayaquil in 1944. Domingo Salame, his grandfather, began selling at the local market prepaid vouchers so his customers could buy products at different local stores and, then, pay Mr. Salame in installments. A revolutionary idea that many decades later evolved to what we know today as credit cards. He later put in place a retail shop to sell the products himself. This business was transitioned to his son in the late 70s. A couple of stores have grown into a corporation with over 70 stores in Ecuador and a strong ecommerce presence. The business model focuses on financing products to a population, many of whom, do not have a credit history yet. Juan Carlos and his brother have taken over the business in the last few years putting in place top technological systems and curating an innovative culture. Standout Quotes: * "Be respectful of everyone regardless of their position, their role, or what they do with their lives" - [Juan] * "Be very low profile...with your life, with your business, Humility in that sense" - [Juan] * "I would seriously encourage anyone to look for a mentor in the early stage who will help guide them through the different opportunities that they would face in their lives" - [Juan] * "I would encourage anyone in their twenties or early thirties to form their own business, especially if they want to be like a CEO... they have to quickly learn and fail on a smaller scale" - [Juan] * "Founding your own business is like 3 MBAs in one" - [Juan] Key Takeaways: * Juan describes the original business model which is still in play today. His grandfather had started selling coupons which allowed customers to buy products from other stores now and pay back in installments to him. He later opened his store to sell those products, in effect, he was a credit provider. * The business model is targeted at customers who don't get credit from their banks or lack a credit history to support them getting it. * The biggest aspect of the business is now e-commerce, especially following the lockdown in the pandemic * Describing that he was not forced into the family business, there was always some level of expectation that he would join the business, and he had already started getting involved at an early age. However he had left to get an MBA in the US, and decided to start his business rather than return to the family business, but after a few years, his father called him back. He stayed for a while and quitted since his working relationship with his father was poor. * Juan shares that he finally went back to the family business with conditions given; the first was to have a board member to sort out rifts when they come up, the second was not reporting directly to his father. * The most challenging aspect of the business they had to change, upon joining the family again, was the culture of the company in order to attract new talent. Some managers also had to leave, as there was a need to work with people who were more aligned with the goals of the company. * Discussing his process of implementing change, Juan shares that his first step is to work with the people already in the company, if this fails, he then persuades the workers to make the necessary changes, and if that also fails, he would find someone else who can work with him. * History did repeat itself as Juan's father also had issues with his father regarding joining in and transitioning into the family business. * A key source of his knowledge was starting his own business, and also putting in the effort to be exposed to different industries by participating on their boards. * Investing in time with the kids has become a top priority on the list of worthwhile investments? * The family decided to assemble a book 2 years ago, which would tell the story of the family business and the family as well as the future of the business. * Key lessons from Juan's journey: Be very strategic in how you go about implementing change. Being intentional about communication in the workplace and within the family is also very necessary as part of a family business. * From Juan to his kids: Look for something that you want to do in life, something you enjoy, and something that adds value to the world. Juan would also encourage his kid to put the best effort into anything worth doing, find a mentor, and within the early twenties start a business because the knowledge gained is like 3 MBAs in one. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] About today's guest "Juan Carlos Salame" * [02:00] Juan narrates the origin of the family business. * [08:30] How did you come to join the Family business? * [18:36] What changes have you been able to implement since you and your brother joined in? * [21:40] Juan shares his approach to making drastic changes in a company. * [27:56] Is there a multi-generational family plan in place for your children? * [30:15] Have there been any transition issues since the business started? * [31:45] How have you learned and grown on your journey? * [35:12] What is the most worthwhile investment you have ever made? * [36:13] Highlighting Values instilled in Juan which he passes on to his children. * [37:09] Does your family invest in anything intentionally to try and document its history? * [38:28] Juan shares lessons from his growth process * [41:45] What would you say is your legacy? * [43:05] Juan's letter to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Juan Carlos Salame.
Nike is the founder and CEO of Nike Anani Practice, Ltd., in Lagos, Nigeria, where she helps second-generation family business members collaborate with the founding generation in an effort to build sustainable family enterprises in the region. No more than 2% of African family businesses successfully transition power to the second generation, and Nike has made it her mission to facilitate this generational merge. With over a decade of experience working with select business families in Africa, Nike Anani ( helps owners lead their family organizations to long-term impact and legacy. Her clients choose to engage her, not only because of her extensive professional training, but also because of her practical experience as both a business founder and a NextGen ( This allows her to uniquely empathise with both generations and act as a connector to the Founding generation. Standout Quotes: * "And that's an observation I have of founders and entrepreneurs, they're just amazing people that have an eye for opportunity" - [Nike] * "As most founders do, it was about giving me the best opportunity to set me up for success and often in their minds, success is going as far away from the business to get the best they can come back" - [Nike] * "In Nigeria, 90% of indigenous businesses are family businesses, but only 2% survive beyond the founder" - [Nike] * "Family businesses are so key to the community, if they keep failing after a generation, then what's that doing to the economy?" - [Nike] * "I think that starting from a relatively small base, the best way to build anything is with community, and actually building what that community wants rather than just dictating something that you found off the shelf from another culture" - [Mike] * "If you've seen one family business, you've seen one family business" - [Nike] * "A friend of mine says whenever you wake up is your morning, some people don't wake up until they're 85, they don't know what they want" - [Nike] * "I need to be in the best version of myself so I can serve people to the best of my ability" - [Nike] * "There's always something new to learn, we've never arrived, we're just on this ongoing journey of endless learning, in my view" - [Nike] * "There's no position that's guaranteed in life, whether it be a position of material success or honor, today you might be celebrated but it doesn't mean tomorrow you will be" - [Nike] * "It is important to ensure that people's external projections don't become your internal story, because your story is the most powerful thing that you can give yourself" - [Nike] Key Takeaways: * Nike is a 2nd generation family business owner, and she narrates how her father started the family business initially as a side-hustle. * Describing events around her entry into the business, she shares the plan was to only stay for a few months in Nigeria, gain exposure to business in general, and move back to the UK eventually. However, she was drawn to the spirit of entrepreneurship there and felt more liberated as a young black female. * Nike explains that while her father had expressed general support for her in any field she was planning to go into, she had never expected she would work in the family business. * A glaring disparity in the decision-making process between her former place of work and the family business was the time taken which could be much shorter or longer in different scenarios, leaving her befuddled about family business as a whole. This encouraged her to get professional education at the Family Firm Institute in Boston. * Employing her knowledge in her family business, Nike started the process of "Governance" which involved her siblings more, intending to avert the typical dissolution that plagued most Nigerian family businesses after the founding generation. * Another strategy adopted involved starting the conversation by creating a community called "African Family Firms" for African families facing similar challenges to meet and navigate through these issues. * Nike highlights various peculiarities of African families, noting how these have to be put into consideration when trying to find solutions to the survival of family businesses in Africa. * You won't know what you want until you come together as a family, have open conversations, and plan for different scenarios. Get clear as a family on who you are, what your values are, the goals of the family, and the purpose of the family business. * Emphasizing the importance of continuous learning, Nike embraces the process as a part of being the best version of herself. * A significant failure that set her up for success took place in school, where the result she got at some point would not be good enough for the jobs she wanted, and this motivated her to push herself harder than ever before to achieve her desired goal. * Nike’s parents impressed upon her certain values described as 4Hs and 2Ps. The 4Hs are Honesty, Hard work, Humility, and Harmony while the 2Ps are People and Places. All of these were included in the family constitutional value system when the formal family enterprise was set up. * It is important to understand that while people can project their weaknesses onto you and vilify you, their external projections should not become your internal story because your story is the most powerful thing you can give yourself, and you have to hold on to that story. Episode Timeline: * [00:50] Meet Today's guest, 'Nike Anani'. * [01:56] Nike's personal and professional background. * [08:30] How did the family make the jump from medical consumables to construction and building hospitals? * [16:55] How were you inspired to learn more about the Business of Family? * [23:00] Since the wake-up call that you received, what did you do about it for your own family or your friends' families? * [29:50] Do people document entitlements for kin or rather more of a bloodline lineage? * [32:53] Challenges surrounding Real Estate planning in Africa. * [39:18] An overview of Nike's different roles in family business generally. * [50:15] Has there been a specific failure that you've learned a great deal from? * [56:00] Apart from education, what else came through as fundamentally important from your parents? * [59:40] Nike's letter to her kids. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Nike Anani.
Tiho Brkan ( is back for a second conversation about family office investing, including a deep dive into real estate mezzanine finance investing, uncorrelated assets for downside protection, citizenship by investment, second passports, territorial tax systems and his global view of markets today. Tiho is a Global Citizen & Investor, and today runs the multifamily office, The Atlas Investor ( on behalf of his family and other ultra high net worth families and individuals. I've been fortunate to build a friendship with Tiho since connecting last year and always enjoy our multi-hour conversations about the state of the world, investment opportunities and challenging eachother to see things from different perspectives. Tiho has a mind like no other person I've met and it's a privelege to listen and learn to him whenever I'm given the opportunity. To hear Tiho's first appears on the podcast, please visit: Tiho Brkan – Global Deal Flow for Family Office Investors ( Standout Quotes: * "Is Cash going to be King or is cash going to be trash?" - [Tiho] * "While it's easy to make money today and everything seems to be working, the question for very smart investors is to anticipate what's around the corner" - [Tiho] * "If you think about a Real Estate cycle, you have 4 stages; Early-stage, mid-cycle, late-stage, and downturn... in Early-stage, you want to be in equity as much as possible" - [Tiho] * "We don't do deals with any developer that doesn't have more than one exit strategy" - [Tiho] * "If a senior lender is doing 37 million, talk to them, ask them about the due diligence because they're putting far more money than you are and they've done it all" - [Tiho] * "The way that you diversify your portfolio, you can also diversify your life" - [Tiho] * "Stick around very experienced people who have been around for a long time, who have survived the cycles... Stick with a talented group of people who have a low personnel turnover" - [Tiho] * "Negotiate... Negotiate... Negotiate" - [Tiho] Key Takeaways: * Mike's previous episode with Tiho Brkan is one of the most downloaded episodes, and by popular demand, he had to bring him for a 2nd episode. * Tiho shares that a lot of investors in this period want to make a lot of money as quickly as possible, as this time is not very suitable for long-term investment. * He explains the reasons why this recession has been the worst in a long time, but this does not reflect in some assets and certain locations. * In normal valuation, reprisals happen where you hold cash which gives you optionality and the ability to be selective, but where money supply around the world is increasing at a rapid speed, is cash going to be King or is cash going to be trash? * Tiho explains that as a contrarian investor, you ride a certain wave until valuations become extreme for you, understanding that high valuations today entail future disappointing returns and so rather, you go and look for relative value elsewhere. * Family offices don't have to be restricted to one type of asset, they have an 'Open Mandate' and Tiho describes the various opportunities available for family offices. Most investors are asking, 'how much money can I make by next Monday?' while he is asking 'How do we only lose 20% rather than 50% in the upcoming downturn?' * The capital stack' and 'Mezzanine debt': There are 3 Real Estate strategies which are Core Real Estate, Value add Real Estate or Opportunistic Real Estate. Mezzanine debt is most commonly a strategy seen in opportunistic Real Estate investment. Mezzanine debt exposure is the most versatile in all 4 stages of the Real-estate cycle(early, mid, late, and downturn). With Mezzanine debt, you can get up to 15% returns per annum. * Tiho's due diligence process before investing: First, the deal must be 'shovel ready' meaning construction starts immediately. Next, note the purpose or theme and planning of the project, location of the project, the track record of the borrower, feasibility studies, the general contractor or quantity surveyor, Securities, and the Exit Strategy. * What is the Monitoring process? This involves Weekly and fortnightly communication to get updates on the project. it may also involve site visits by you or a Real Estate expert, and construction status updates. * Discussing Residence Planning perspective: What is the purpose that we're trying to accomplish here? * The OECD tax model: This is divided into 4 segments of how income is taxed. First is the "No Income Tax", second is "Territorial Tax". "Residence-based Taxation" is third. Last is "Citizenship Based Taxation". * An important investing lesson: Stick around very experienced people who have been around for a long time, who have survived the cycles. Stick with a talented group of people who have a low personnel turnover. * Everything is negotiable in the world of finance. Episode Timeline: * [00:50] Introducing 2nd-time guest "Tiho Brkan", by popular demand. * [02:30] From your perspective, what have you seen evolve over the last few months from this pandemic? * [09:03] Are Contrarian investors nowadays taking advantage of the increased supply of money or sitting on their hands? * [13:52] Discussing the impact of the increase in money supply on preferences regarding the duration of family investments. * [22:38] 'The Capital Stack' and 'Mezzanine debt' in Real Estate projects. * [35:03] Tiho describes in critical detail, his due diligence process before investing in a deal. * [46:00] The 'Monitoring Process' * [52:50] Are there advantages to the double taxation agreement in a cross-border environment that investors should be thinking about? * [57:26] The OECD tax model * [01:05:10] An investing lesson to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Tiho Brkan.
Aaron Chin is a second-generation business leader and CEO of Organika (, a family-led Canadian company dedicated to providing innovative, premium health products to help inspire people to live healthier lives. Growing up in the business motivated Aaron to build on what his father started 30 years ago. Since assuming leadership of Organika, in partnership with his brother Jordan, they have increased business seven-fold and have grown the company into an award-winning, globally recognized brand, focusing on innovation and a vibrant company culture. Standout Quotes: * "You start with the mission of the company and that'll help drive your decisions after". - [Aaron] * "If you can tweak one little thing in your process that could save you it". - [Aaron] * "You are going to determine yourself, how well you do". - [Aaron] * "I really do believe there's nothing like good old hard work". - [Aaron] * "My relationship with my brother is bigger than the business... I think I can pass that down to my kids" - [Aaron] Key Takeaways: * Aaron's dad had the dream when he moved from Malaysia to Canada to give his kids a chance to get ice cream whenever they wanted. * Following the treatment of his kidney stones using natural products, he started the business with a vision to make healthcare accessible for all. * Despite the rejection, his father persistently put himself and his products out there, till the business took off. * Aaron shares he always had an interest in the family business although his father never tried to impose any expectations to join. * Aaron narrates a simple experience where he noticed the boss employed by his father to manage the business got to the office one morning, and deleted all his office voicemails without listening to any one, inciting Aaron's suspicion of the poor management inherent in the business. * Realizing the diet differences between the newer and older generation, the company pivoted from mostly vitamin pills to be more involved in superfoods, powders, drink mixes. * The surprising eventuality of Aaron becoming CEO in an Asian family where he is the younger brother and always at odds with his older brother, was partly made possible by the family dynamic which started to work out following certain events that strengthened the bond between them. * Aaron shares his vision for the company: I want to see us in every single home in Canada. * Explaining that his dad wasn't overprotective but rather allowed them to make mistakes, and these mistakes helped them learn how to make fast and efficient decisions. * The question: What are you doing about it? * If you teach children what wealth means, it's rather thoughtful to leave wealth for them, but if not then it's just an expectation, and things could go wrong. * To Aaron's kids: Know the importance of Family because it is more important than even the business Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Meet today's guest "Aaron Chin". * [01:25] Where did the family business begin, and how do you become involved in this story? * [07:40] About Aaron's entry into the business: Was it always an expectation or some other circumstance? * [16:09] Describing the business today. * [19:55] How did the leadership transition come about? * [24:40] Being the younger brother in an Asian family, how did you arrive at the CEO role? * [27:15] What sort of investment process did you go through, and how did you formalize the business? * [33:33] Would you say the company culture remains unchanged or has it morphed as a result of the impact of Private Equity coming in? * [37:45] Aaron shares major lessons learned by trying things and making mistakes at the beginning * [38:50] Is there a multi-generational plan to continue the legacy that your father started? * [41:03] How do you feel about children inheriting wealth? * [42:39] Aaron's letter to his kids. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Aaron Chin.
Adii Pienaar ( is the founder of three technology companies, two of which he’s exited so far to create first generation wealth for his family. A prolific reader, writer and maker, Adii brings a refreshing perspective to the way he views family, business and wealth. I was fortunate enough to preview his new book which was released last month, titled Life Profitability ( In Life Profitability, Adii provides you with a new perspective for becoming self-aware, recognising your values, and understanding your impact. An enriched life and successful business are not mutually exclusive. In fact, this book will provide you with the first steps in building a business that is more sustainable with increased options for you, your employees, and your family. Life Profitability by Addi Pienaar ( Standout Quotes: * "The biggest burden I felt was that transition from wealth generation to wealth maintenance" - [Adii] * "I think in any kind of business partner relationships, as long as everyone is aligned towards the same goal, then everything is hunky-dory, and as soon as someone is not aligned with your process then everything is not hunky-dory" - [Adii] * "Whatever I do, it should be that truest expression of self" - [Adii] * "There are multiple things that pull us into different directions on a daily basis but having an awareness of when that happens... that's Mindfulness" - [Adii] * "I truly believe in transparency for the kids" - [Adii] * "The family office should serve as a leg up for the trustees and that's the kids, right? it's not a handout" - [Adii] * "Neither the family office or any of our individual lives should be so rigid like we're constantly trying to fit into a single recipe" - [Adii] * "The cost of anything we do in life is just Life" - [Adii] * "I don't care if they miss 99% of it, even if they become 1% of the context of this conversation" - [Adii] * "The way I think about legacy is, if I were to die tomorrow, the goal would be to have left my kids or anyone who cares enough breadcrumbs about who I really was" - [Adii] Key Takeaways: * A major transition point for Adii was moving from wealth generation to wealth maintenance. * With little information on how to run a family office, he was able to get started by asking questions and got propelled into motion when the law firm got the right people around him to explain the process. * Adii describes his value system: How can I wake up every single morning and spend my time manifesting the truest expression and version of myself in anything that I do? * An ideal day for Adii is "being present". * Adii explains that the main reason he went back into entrepreneurship was he wanted to create again, he was enthusiastic about building a team, and those are his higher values for now. * While admitting that his kids have a great life especially from the financial perspective, he is concerned not to bring up spoilt kids who can't be individuals with their purpose. * Adii describes the strategies he uses to help build his kids to become individuals with a backbone: Transparency, which involves letting the kids be fully aware and involved with the ongoings in the family office, as well as the concept of Gratitude. * The family office should always prioritize business ideas from the trustees. * Expounding on the concept of 'Paying a Life Dividend': A business that's not just financially profitable but profits your whole life. Adi discusses the relevance of having assets that mean more than their financial value to the family, which is selected by stress testing, effective communication, and evolution. * It is important to sequence things, rather than doing two things at once and have none getting your full attention. * Every single minute of our day, we only have finite attention, time, and energy to do anything, so the decision to anything is costing us life. * Unfortunately, mainstream media has created a narrow definition of success that serves barely 0.1% of the world, but there is a much wider and diverse definition of success for the rest of us, and it is our responsibility to define it. * To Adii's Children: Do the work, continue learning towards discovering who you are, and figure out how to manifest that in most of the things you do in life. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] About today's guest, Adii Pienaar, describing his origin story and path to First-generation wealth. * [08:26] What does a family office mean to you, and how did you know what to do when you set out to do this for the first time? * [11:19] How have you and your understanding of value systems evolved? * [13:59] Adii describes his picture of an ideal day. * [16:13] His motivation for diving into entrepreneurship for the 3rd time. * [19:20] How have you explored this concept of multi-generational wealth or the family office? * [29:50] 'Paying a Life Dividend' * [37:34] Adii recounts a significant failure with the lessons learned. * [40:15] About Adii's book: "Life Profitability" * [49:12] What was the motivation for writing and publishing a book? * [53:00] How else do you document your history within your family for the next generation to discover? * [54:40] Adii's letter to his children. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Adii Pienaar.
Mitzi Perdue ( is the daughter of one family business titan (her father founded the Sheraton Hotel Chain ( and the widow of another, (her late husband was the family business poultry magnate (, Frank Perdue), and she is also a businesswoman in her own right. She started the family wine grape business, now one of the larger suppliers of wine grapes in California. Mitzi likes nothing better than to share insider tips for successful family businesses. Her family of origin (the one that started the Sheraton Hotels) began with the family business, Henderson Estate Company, in 1840, and her Perdue family started in 1920 in the poultry business. These two families have a combined tradition of 276 years of staying together as a family. Family Business Books by Mitzi Perdue ( Standout Quotes: * "The odds of a family business lasting 100 years are 1 in 1000" - [Mitzi] * "The families who put a lot of effort into designing their cultures are the ones that survive, the ones that let things happen as they may, that rarely supports keeping the family business together over the generations" - [Mitzi] * "70% of family businesses won't make it to the next generation, so if you want your family to last, put a lot of intentionality into letting the family members know from the youngest age that they're part of something bigger than themselves" - [Mitzi] * "The biggest reason families don't last is family quarrels" - [Mitzi] * "So a big piece of advice I'd have for every family is, deal with the problems, get them out, come to a resolution but don't go the press, don't go to adversarial lawyers" - [Mitzi] * "We're measured by what you can give, not what you can get" - [Mitzi] * "I don't think you can be happy if you're not part of something bigger than yourself... * If you want to be happy, think what you can do for somebody else, if you really want to be miserable, think what's owed to you" - [Mitzi] * "In general, your family will be better functioning the more it knows its stories" - [Mitzi] * "If your children turn out right, nothing else matters, if your children turn out wrong, nothing else matters" - [Mitzi] Key Takeaways: * Mitzi is a part of two multi-generational business families, each of which has lasted for over 100years and over 5 generations. * Mitzi explains that a lot of conscious effort was put into strengthening the families over the years, noting in particular one of the strategies being the "Service to the Family" award. * Every single family that exists has a culture, but is it a culture that came about by accident or by design? * It is critical to be intentional about designing and maintaining family culture as it plays a major role in the success of a family business over generations, rather than just allowing things to happen as they may. * People need a lot of guidance to be steered away from selfishness, and that takes intentionality. * Separating Ownership and Control helps create a perspective of the family as an entity bigger than any one person, and consequently gives a better understanding of the role of stewardship. * Mitzi explains her innovative idea to inculcate the family values in family members, right from childhood. * Noting the importance of knowing how to handle family quarrels, Mitzi strongly emphasizes avoiding the press or lawyers but rather encourages outspokenness within the family. * Three ways that a family can intentionally stay together: Family Newsletters, Family Reunions, and Philanthropy. * Mitzi highlights the positive effects of connecting with both present and past members of the family on the well-being, physically and mentally, of the family. * As a personal preference, Mitzi would rather use books as a means to archive family history compared to other forms of technology, as it may be difficult to access the archive in the future if the technology used to archive it is outdated by that time. * Mitzi recommends entering a new family with humility, observing them, noting what gains you points and what doesn't, also pointing out that while the two families had very different values, the values were very compatible. * Mitzi's letter to her kids: Be generous, be kind, be honest, work hard but be a good steward. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Introducing Mitzi Perdue, to discuss actionable advice on how her family has maintained their businesses and family dynamics for generations. * [02:28] Mitzi shares the origin stories of both business families she is a part of. * [04:46] What generation are you in each of these families and what generation are these families up to? * [10:08] Every family has a culture. * [13:22] About the family values and how they are inculcated with other members of the family. * [25:53]How big was the business when it went from family control to external control? * [34:02] How has the endowment grown to keep up with the growing size of the family? * [35:34] The 'What It Means To Be Us' book. * [38:35] Do you have a process or value system around how you keep records for the family? * [52:50] How was the process of assimilating two different value systems upon joining another family and what differences did you observe? * [57:15] Is there a constitution for the family? * [01:00:43] A letter from Mitzi to her children. For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Mitzi Perdue.
Ginny Gilder, is an American former competitive rower and Olympic silver medalist. As a second generation entrepreneur, Ginny’s day job is running her family investment office, Gilder Office for Growth ( but her heart leads her to focus on expanding access to opportunity in the realms of sports and education, especially for youth. A serial social enterprise entrepreneur, co-owner of the WNBA Seattle Storm (, and a writer, Ginny continues to look for ways to expand the footprint of women's professional sports in the U.S. Standout Quotes: * "The way that people really become good at something and grow wealth is by concentration" - [Ginny] * "There are gifts hidden in tough times" - [Ginny] * "You should keep doing something only as long as you're learning and growing" - [Ginny] * "For any family that's lucky enough to have financial wealth you've got to think about whether you are going to insist that people get along, and at what price" - [Ginny] * "The biggest thing that's probably shifted is recognizing what we really want, which is adult relationships with our adult children" - [Ginny] * "If you want to see change in the world, well, you've got to invest, cos nothing's going to happen if you're not going to invest" - [Ginny] * "What's really most important to most people is Human Connection... and if you really want to be connected, you've got to deal with the stuff that's the toughest" - [Ginny] Key Takeaways: * After making many mistakes starting a nonprofit, Ginny set up a business that helps start-up nonprofits avoid similar mistakes and achieve their goals. * Early in her career, she had goals that were not related to working in the family business. * Having a financial cushion had benefits, like the freedom to work without being tied to a focus on amassing wealth, although it came with less attention from their father. * When the time came for a transition of the family business, she knew she had to step up to the responsibility placed on her despite her lack of knowledge or passion in the family business. * There has to be a lot of very direct conversations if you want to be in business with your siblings. * Ginny clearly explains that she has no passion for the investment business, but got involved, for the love of family, the financial security, and the business relationships that come with it. * Having an investment office rather than a family office with bells and whistles was geared at equipping her kids to be independent, self-sufficient, and capable human beings. * Honesty has been hugely instrumental in navigating the family dynamics in Ginny's family, she also had to understand the importance of having adult relationships with her adult children. * When things go wrong, that's when you have to figure it out and it's also when you find out the relationships that are solid. * The importance of dealing with difficult family relationships: it's so easy when life is good to think everything is fine but as soon as life gets hard if you haven't dealt with challenges and learned how to disagree and resolve differences, you're not going to make it through the hardest parts of life. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Meet Ginny Gilder; sharing her personal and professional background. * [01:34] Her family history and the origin of the family business * [08:20] How Ginny got into the investment business. * [22:50] What was your father's position when you started your nonprofit organization? * [29:00] Ginny describes how the family dynamics affected the transition of the business to her generation. * [30:42] What would you say that you've learned from the separation of roles between family and business? * [33:22] What is the family business structure going forward? * [40:05] How do you differentiate your investment office from a family office? * [41:20] About Gilder Office for Growth * [48:56] How do you navigate through your family dynamics in the world of wealth? * [53:15] Tell us about what you're most passionate about in terms of one of the businesses that you own today. * [01:00:40] Ginny's letter to her kids *For more episodes go to * ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Ginny Gilder.
Khalid Muhmood ( is from the UK and through the family business holding company Dragonfly Education Group (, is an operational investor in education. He has been active in the business of education since 1994 when he and his wife, Arabella Peters, co-founded Apollo English ( and then the British University Vietnam. Since then they have invested in a number of businesses all focused on education. Khalid and Arabella see themselves as the founding generation of their family enterprise and intend to never sell their Dragonfly Education hold co. They’re actively involving their young children in business conversations and laying the foundation for generational wealth, legacy and impact. Standout Quotes: * "What's your biggest headache?" * "Learning from successful family businesses; so many of them do not load up on debt" - [Khalid] * "The future of education is blended, that means you've got to incorporate online with offline" - [Khalid] * "Sophisticated multi-generational families.. have taken generations to figure out that they need to separate the Governance from the Operations, and that the family needs to be excellent stewards and owners first before they can consider playing an active role in Operations" - [Mike] * "A well-run family business is difficult to beat, especially during downtimes" - [Khalid] * "Why trade anything in, when we've found purpose?" - [Khalid] * "If you’re building any business, I'd say that 'Focus' is the thing that's often lacking, especially if the entrepreneur at the beginning thinks they have to say yes to everything" - [Khalid] * "Look for the good in life... because it really helps you enjoy the journey" - [Khalid] Key Takeaways: * If you want to be truly in control of your journey in a business, you need to be the owner, not the manager. * At the very beginning, the vision was simply to get the business to survive. * It's only when you move from surviving to thriving that you can ask, "what do you want to do?" * When asked "what is your biggest headache?" at an event, many of the entrepreneurs answered "My father". * If you're not happy with 60000 pounds per year, then any more money might not change anything. * Khalid describes the challenges of Covid-19 as a learning period for the business as a whole. * Finding a way to create balance and incorporate online with offline learning is pivotal, that will be the future for the family business. * Khalid and his wife, Arabella involve their kids as much as possible in the family business even at the early ages of 8 and 10, with some tests to determine their level of interest and perception of the business as a whole. * In the future, the key role for the kids is going to be "Good Owners" * The stewardship role is critical * One of the tips to help foster togetherness among children is that if one of them does something wrong, punish them all. * Other points to note is to never elevate one sibling above the other and to always leave them to sort out their arguments without being the judge. * Khalid shares that the preferred investments taken by DragonFly are those in which a controlling stake can be bought. * A major mistake that was made at some point was accepting an offer from Nokia when it should have been turned down because it was distracting from the core competency of the business. * Khalid shares that his source of knowledge includes mentors, peer to peer learning, and mistakes. * From Khalid to his kids: Look for the good in life because it really helps you enjoy the journey. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] About Khalid Muhmood and the inspiration for starting the business of education * [06:01] Khalid explains some of the reasons behind the choice of Vietnam as a location for starting the business * [08:59] What was the vision at the time of starting the business * [15:03] The new vision for Dragonfly Education Group * [19:41] How did the business hold up in this period of Covid19, do you have an interest in online learning? * [24:34] Is there a vision of bringing your kids into the business if they're interested? * [31:20] Do you have any other family structures aside from stewarding Dragonfly as the main asset? * [32:53] Khalid shares some of the values, principles, and parenting approaches to raise well-rounded children amidst wealth. * [36:37] Where does this family business DNA come from? * [41:17] Where do you think you'll make the next operational or financial investment? * [43:01] One of the major mistakes made in running the business: Losing focus * [47:50] A letter from Khalid to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Khalid Muhmood.
Ashok Melwani started his career as a teenager, working in his family’s fashion retail stores during the school holidays. In 1982, he joined the business full-time, working his way up from brand manager to an executive director of the 4th generation Indian family business. He's a seasoned entrepreneur with decades of experience in retail, food & beverage and distribution, and now an executive coach. Ashok is a guide to the road less travelled. His story is a fascinating journey of a struggle to leave the family business and ultimately forge his own path. Standout Quotes: * "My most disliked few words, 'You should know what to do'." - [Ashok] * "If the CEO of a business is not passionate about a business, he has no business to be the CEO" - [Ashok] * "If the family business is the only thing on your resume, it's not very worthwhile" - [Ashok] * "Crowd brings crowd to a restaurant" - [Ashok] * "Two things I and my wife can never give you as parents, we cannot give you resilience, it only comes from hardship... We cannot give you self esteem, it comes only from achieving your own goals and making a name for yourself" - [Ashok] * "Everybody has a price at which they might do something which is borderline unethical, and the price depends a lot on your socio-emotional background" - [Ashok] * "When one door closes, another door opens.. in order for that to be true, you have to do your part which is don't hang around too long when the door closes" - [Ashok] Key Takeaways: * Ashok shares that although he wasn't particularly excited to work in the family business, the incentives and knowledge gained made it a perfect introduction to the retail business. * If the family business is the only thing on your resume, it's not very worthwhile, even if you were the MD. * Ashok discloses that following the impact of the Asian financial crisis on his transition out of the family business, he had fallen into depression for close to a year. * If you leave a family business, you don't want to have some small share in the business and start second-guessing whoever is left behind. * Although he had a clean exit, there were effects on the family dynamics at the time, as some family members didn't understand why. * Despite the many setbacks, looking back, there is no doubt that leaving the family business was the right step to take for Ashok. * I have no respect for trust fund kids. * You have a life outside and beyond the business, a lot of entrepreneurs are consumed by their business even when they should be spending time with family. * Ashok admits that based on his experience with his family business, he was not encouraged to start another one involving his children * After interacting with younger family business executive owners, a common notable point was that they were given time to work outside the family business before coming back. * From Ashok to his kids: when one door closes, another door opens, don't wait around too long afterward. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Introducing "Ashok Melwani" * [01:56] Ashok narrates how he joined the family business * [02:50] What sort of products was the business offering? * [13:03] Your career with the family business, where did it reach, and what happened next? * [31:32] Ashok explains he had a clean exit from the family business. * [34:00] Would you say that leaving the family was the right decision for you? * [35:04] How is the family business going today? * [36:31] Did you ever try and nurture your children to work with you and create another family business? * [38:28] Ashok's opinion on children inheriting wealth * [40:39] A notable experience that helped shape his journey. * [44:00] What advice would you give to a driven entrepreneur who aspires to be the founding generation of a multi-generational family business? * [44:57] What's your take on generational businesses? * [46:46] My next stage in life involves venturing into Leadership Coaching * [47:35] Ashok's letter to his children For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Ashok Melwani.
George Isaac’s grandfather founded the first Isaac family businesses in 1899 in Bryan, Ohio, beginning a long history of serial entrepreneurship and the subsequent creation of several successful enterprises. A lot has changed since then, but the Isaac Group continues to thrive, now under board oversight and management by its third and fourth generation. George grew up as a child of family business owners and has run several Isaac multigenerational family businesses as a CEO and board member. More recently, he is the founder and president of GAI Capital Ltd. (, a family business consulting firm and the author of a newly released book titled Your Business, Your Family, Your Legacy: Building a Multigenerational Family Business That Lasts ( Your Business Your Family Your Legacy - George A Isaac ( Standout Quotes: * "I realized that some of the things I did in running our family business and what a lot of people are doing today are not best practices" * "I used to think that the goal was to get everybody in the family to stay in the family business and figure out a way to make them live happily ever after... My goal now is to understand the real needs of each family member and see if they fit within what the family business is going to be about" * "The majority can rule and figure out what they want to do but you need to deal with the minority issues... so that you can satisfy their needs" * "The most important to me of the whole thing is just being certain that your ownership group is aligned" * "There are times when you should sell your family business" * "Shareholder returns are much different than business returns... Figuring out how you provide real-life shareholder returns is an important step that many of us don't recognize" * "Money is not everything by any means" Key Takeaways: * Although George had gotten involved in the family business at a very early age and had planned to join fully after school, he decided to go out and get outside experience first. * George notes that the Authoritarian leadership style of his father, although a good leader, made for a rather weak management team generally. * The 2 conceptual parts to George's 9-step succession planning roadmap: Family Transition Planning and Business Transition Planning. * George explains that formerly his goal would be to make everyone stay in the family business and be happy, but now he tries to understand the individual needs of each family member, to see if they fit into the family business as a whole. * It is necessary to revisit the topic of people's needs and be sure the business is aligned with taking care of these needs because those needs change over time. * The 2 Basic components of selling the family business: the financial side and the personal side. * Headwinds that perpetuate a multi-generational family wealth: FIST ( Family units, Inflation, Spending rate, Taxes) * George shares some insight from the book "Everybody matters", describing how attention to the little things can go a long way in making workers satisfied * Think about what you want your legacy to be; are you aligning yourself with that legacy? * Be Curious and Have Empathy Episode Timeline: * [00:49] A short overview of George's background and the Isaac family business * [05:12] George is the 3rd generation of the family business * [05:28] What sort of product lines is the business in? * [06:22] How did your story evolve into the family advisory work? * [09:44] About the A 9-step succession planning roadmap from George's book * [17:16] George highlights implications to consider in selling a family business * [23:37] The Family Business Wealth Evaporation Trap * [33:05] F.I.S.T * [36:51] Is it possible to maintain wealth at a reasonable level even though the family grows at a compound rate as the generations go on? * [39:47] George shares his opinion about children inheriting wealth. * [41:51] George recommends the book "Everybody Matters" by Bob Chapman * [44:31] From George to his kids *For more episodes go to * ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: George Isaac.
Gautam Goel is the fourth generation Managing Director of Dhampur International Pte Ltd (, the parent company and Dhampur International Pte Ltd. Founded in India in 1933 by Gautam’s great grandfather, he along with fellow members of the current generation continue to steward the family and business legacy today. Listen on to hear how the business was intentionally split off from a wider family group to resolve in-fighting, how they’ve professionalised the business and what challenges they face when contemplating the 5th generation’s involvement. Standout Quotes: * My dad used to tell me "if you want to join the work, you have to make sure you are capable, I won't yield an inch if I don't think you are capable and you have to fight for your position, I am not going to give it to you" - [Gautam Goel] * "I don't believe in the saying Look before you leap because very often you don't leap, only when you leap do you realize what your capabilities are" - [Gautam Goel] * "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - [Gautam Goel] * "Don't be fixated on results, put in your best, do your effort and leave the results" - [Gautam Goel] Key Takeaways: * Gautam encouraged his daughters to go to college, explaining that going straight to work makes you grow up fast and there is no need to rush the experience when you can enjoy it. * When trying different things, it is important not to move too fast from one to another because you might not give each your full attention * Business can't be a democracy, one person has to make the decisions * Gautam explains that to be in this industry in India, you cannot solely be profit-oriented, you need to have a mindset to do good for your community. * Not encouraging recklessness, but as long as you have common sense, it's good to be adventurous and make some mistakes to figure things out. * Don't be fixated on results, results are not in your control, your effort is Episode Timeline: * [00:49] About Gautam Goel and the history of his family business. * [14:31] How did you end up joining the family business? * [20:25] Gautam describes the natural process of his succession noting how this affects decision making in the business * [24:55] What does the business look like today, from where it started? * [34:36] Is there a next-generation that is interested in joining the family business, and what challenges do you foresee? * [40:36] Integrating the idea of outside leadership in the family business * [42:26] Are there structures or plans in place regarding family governance? * [43:48] Gautam's thoughts on children inheriting wealth * [45:50] Are you taking any steps to document the history of the family business? * [46:25] Gautam's letter to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Gautam Goel.
It's not often we get to hear from a 7th generation American manufacturing family with a company that dates back to 1728 and in their family since 1793. The Hollingsworth & Vose Company ( is a technical manufacturer with a rich history of R&D and innovation. Here to share their story with us are Val & Annie Hollingsworth, first cousins and both members of the 6th generation, stewarding this incredible and impactful company to the next generation. Val Hollingsworth has served as President of Hollingsworth & Vose Company ( since January 1997, and added the title of Chief Executive Officer in January 1998. He began in operations, working as a Shift Supervisor and as a Production Manager, then held a series of manufacturing, sales, and marketing positions. He served as Mill Manager of our West Groton Mill and General Manager of the Battery Separator Business Unit. While the majority of his career has been at H&V, he also spent two years in the Investment Banking Division at Lehman Brothers in New York. Val earned a BA from the University of Pennsylvania, and an MBA from Dartmouth's Tuck School of Business. Annie Hollingsworth was elected to the H&V Board of Directors ( in 1997. She currently serves on the Nominating & Governance and the Executive Compensation committees of the Board. Prior to joining the Board, Annie worked at H&V starting in 1984. She held several positions in Sales and Marketing including Product Manager, Battery Separator and Marketing Manager, Nonwovens. She was instrumental in getting H&V into the battery separator business. Annie’s father, Mark was the CEO of H&V from 1963 – 1983. Standout Quotes: * "Our company's history has been one of finding new and more technically oriented products in order to replace products that are maturing and obsolescing… Because the family had so much invested in this, we couldn't take the risk of being obsolete" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "If you're trying to optimize profitability, which we all are, how do you start to invest in things that may cannibalize an already existing product?" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "If we could be a good company.... that would attract good people, those good people would do good work" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "Ultimately, you have to trust other people to become the real experts and get in-depth, so it's more a matter of helping find and develop the right people and giving them what they need" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "There has always been an unwritten ethic of having to go the extra mile if you're from the family and you're in the business" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "If the family can contribute in helping set the right tone, and helping nurture the sense of purpose and values that are relevant, both for the family and ultimately for the company… that's invaluable in creating the atmosphere and dynamic that attracts good people" - [Val Hollingsworth] * "Be a good steward, Don't take it for granted" - [Val Hollingsworth] Key Takeaways: * Annie highlights that the company's resilience over the decades comes from a strong focus on customer relationships as well as Research and Development. * Val notes a conscious intent in the company from the beginning to continually reinvest, describing some of the intricate planning involved in the company's production line. * The business tries to keep up with a mantra of having the best product in the market, a better one in customer evaluation, and an even better one in the labs. * Val also describes the role of the workers in building the company's resilience, stressing the importance of having and keeping good people. * Trusting the employees plays a vital role in creating a balance for Annie and Val, between having knowledge of the technical expertise required in the family business and the job of stewardship. * Unlike Annie's Father who had to step up to the needs of the company without having much of a choice, Val and Annie were not under any pressure and joined purely out of interest. * The challenge for the older generation (6th generation) is to be open to change, to understand the important things that can make the company relevant to the next generation, and to know how to communicate with them. * Annie shares that she would encourage her kids to pursue their passion, as there are many ways to be a good family member or stockholder, but to ensure they continue to honor the company. * Val points out that with good stewardship, the family business could give meaningful contribution to the world. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Meet Val and Annie Hollingsworth, as they share the early origins of their family business dating back to the late 1700s * [07:17] What is it about this company that has allowed it to remain so resilient for so many years? * [14:55] Val points out that the business also has multiple generations of employees * [16:42] Can you share some of the more notable products that the company is known for manufacturing today? * [22:14] Annie and Val each highlight events leading up to their entrance into the company and the journey so far. * [29:35] How do you balance understanding the depth of the technical expertise in the business with your stewardship role as a family member? * [33:33] Some of the strategies employed in keeping all the various stakeholders up to date with happenings in the business * [39:04] The business has an associate development program that exposes workers to the different areas of the business so that they can make a good match. * [43:38] Val describes the role of non-family members in the success of the overall business. * [46:30] How does the governance side of the family business work? * [54:24] Does the family do anything to ensure that the business's history is documented over time? * [55:50] The future of Hollingsworth and Vose. * [59:44] Annie's letter to her children * [01:00:40] Val's letter to his children For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guests: Annie Hollingsworth and Val Hollingsworth.
Jeff Gould ( is the founder Lineage Asset Advisors (LAA) ( a full-service commercial real estate advisory and consulting firm providing customized commercial real estate services to help families make seamless transitions with their properties – from one generation to the next. Lineage collaborates with estate planning advisers to develop and implement portfolio solutions that meet the goals of multiple generations. Their aim is to preserve and enhance family wealth and legacy during difficult life transitions while establishing a culture of respect, peace of mind and financial sustainability. Standout Quotes: * "Like most forms of financial planning, the sooner you plan ahead, the much easier it is to implement and follow through" - [Mike Boyd] * "Even if the family is risk-averse, I think it is really critical for them to understand that the risk of doing nothing may still be higher than the risk of doing something if they plan to keep the assets" – [Jeff Gould] * "I think many families need to stay nimble in the future and really adjust for change" – [Jeff Gould] * "Wealth and wealth transfer doesn't always lead to happiness, in fact in many cases it leads to conflict and challenges and strife among family members, so we want to try to shift that conversation, and that takes effort and planning" – [Jeff Gould] * "Life is generally empty and meaningless, and we have the ability to establish positive and productive meaning in the midst of a world in constant transition" – [Jeff Gould] Key Takeaways: * The ideal scenario would be to involve Jeff early in planning for the transition but the reality is that he is engaged much later when things need to move quickly. * There is a unique skill set that is needed to be a trusted adviser to help the family understand what they have in regards to Real Estate, and develop a plan with that Real Estate called a "Shared Asset Ownership plan" that considers the variables of the next generation. * The 3 phased process includes Discovery, Planning, and Implementation. * Addressing the issue of Deferred Maintenance; the 'Do Nothing Scenario' and the 'Do Something Scenario' * 5 Transition Strategies in Real Estate planning: Communication and Education, Conflict Resolution and Accepting differences, Rediscovering your commercial Real Estate portfolio, Developing a mindful asset transition plan, and Implementing the plan and adjusting for change * Jeff's advice to Real estate entrepreneurs: Creating your estate plan and developing a shared asset ownership plan that aligns with the next generation. * Jeff explains that he helps the family understand that it is a fortunate situation to be carrying on and stewarding the transition of the assets rather than focusing on the personal value of the asset to each family member. * Be respectful to everyone you encounter. Episode Timeline: * [00:49] Jeff Gould and his professional background * [06:06] Do you usually get called in at the time of a transition event in a family or ahead of that time to plan a healthy transition? * [08:37] Jeff gives a general picture of the different categories of clients he works with. * [11:12] What are the particular challenges with the real estate space that create the need for Jeff's specialty, to steward assets in family transition rather than a generic accountant or financial planner? * [16:51] Jeff describes the 3 phased process of his work with families * [24:00] Addressing Deferred Maintenance * [30:50] What would you say is the appetite for innovation in Real Estate? * [35:06] 5 transition strategies in Real Estate planning * [39:44] What advice would you give to a founding generation or Real Estate entrepreneur to best prepare themselves to have a great plan in place? * [43:24] Do you work with any families that are multigenerational into the 3rd, 4th, or 5th generations? * [49:38] From Jeff to his kids *For more episodes go to * ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guest: Jeff Gould.
Jim ( and Paul Warner ( work together in multi-generational family dynamics helping all parties establish and sustain authentic, synergistic, relationships. Paul leads young adult retreats, focusing on authentic relationships, navigating change, and leadership development. He also coaches young adults seeking clarity on their life purpose, mission, and vision, and guides them to take full responsibility for their lives. Jim’s work has led him to write three books and an audio series based on high achievers’ yearnings for identity, meaning, and connection. He has been married 44 years and enjoys enriching relationships with his wife, their three adult children, and a granddaughter. Jim and Paul work extensively with Young Presidents’ Organization and Family Business Network Families Worldwide. The last dozen years they have also guided several S.E. Asian families in their quest to establish enduring principles across multiple generations. Standout Quotes: * "One of the major issues of families of wealth is they make the mistake of insulating the kids from the realities of living outside of the wealth bubble" - [Jim Warner] * "Without being able to experience pain, you cheat people out of the ability to experience joy; I'd like to think of pain and joy as opposite sides of the same coin and if you mute one, you're gonna mute the other" - [Jim Warner] * "If we want our young adult children to step into their sense of destiny, are we modeling that ourselves?" - [Jim Warner] * "If you've worked with one family, you've worked with one family" - [Jim and Paul Warner] * "Introduce a common language within the family so that we can play in these intentional spaces, to stretch towards each other." [Paul Warner] * "Harmony is impossible without the willingness to go into painful discussions" - [Jim Warner] * "If you choose not to discuss the Elephant in the room, you forfeit the right to complain" - [Jim Warner] * "When all parties are willing to play ball, when all parties are willing to take responsibility, we'll often say "right now this family has 600% responsibility" each of you takes 100% responsibility for what is within your control." [Paul Warner] * "Love is unconditional, relationships are not" - [Jim Warner] Key Takeaways: * Jim explains the need to distinguish supporting and protecting, from enabling, because oftentimes families blur those lines. * Mike and Jim agree that being insulated from the rest of the world does not necessarily protect wealthy children but may do more harm than good. * Governance structures are secondary to parental modeling of core values. * Rather than jumping right into getting the kid fit for succession, the key thing a parent should ask is "How do I help my young adult find their own passion in life?" * Jim highlights 3 key steps to balancing being a nurturing parent while not enabling children: Active listening, Allowing children to face disappointment, and Guiding them to take responsibility for their lives. * Many professionals who go into a family environment have a relatively small toolbox; if all you've got is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. * Harmony is about truth-telling, it's not about being nice to one another * Jim stresses that the goal of discussing the painful topics (the elephant in the room) is the potential of having an authentic family relationship as opposed to a transactional family relationship * If a sense of self-awareness is instilled into children, then when they're adults you can have mature transformational discussions as a family, but without it, the children may never grow up. * The components of the "Trust" that sets elders apart: Credibility, Reliability, Honesty, Vulnerability and Adaptability. * There are two ways life happens; life can happen to me where I'm the victim, or life can happen by me where I'm a creator and I create my own options * Life is a journey and the important things take time; part of that journey will be your individual discovery and deeper understanding and connection with yourself. * Don't change, I love you just the way you are Episode Timeline: * [00:50] Mike briefly introduces both Jim and Paul Warner, and they share some of their background stories * [04:45] Paul describes the impact of his father in his eventual choice of profession * [07:22] What are some of the challenges that you've seen for parents raising motivated and happy children amidst wealth? * [13:47] What role do you think formal governance structures play in shaping strong family values and bonds? * [17:05] Paul's definition of the rising generation, describing the common dynamic between them and the older generation. * [20:25] How do you help people identify their own path and whether or not they're fit for succession? * [22:46] How Paul got into the family business * [28:02] Jim describes how a parent can be welcoming and nurturing without enabling the children * [29:55] The approach to working with different families * [33:45] 13 guidelines for authentic interactions in any environment * [39:10] Discussing the "Elephant in the room" * [51:37] What sets an elder apart with respect to the ability to influence the success of a family? * [01:00:06] From Paul to his kids * [01:01:07]From Jim to his kids For more episodes go to ( Sign up for The Business of Family Newsletter at ( Follow Mike on Twitter @MikeBoyd ( If you feel it's appropriate, I'd so appreciate you taking 30 seconds to Leave a Review on iTunes (, I receive a notification of each review. Thank you! Special Guests: Jim Warner and Paul Warner.
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