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Welcome to part 2 of my interview with Gabriel Rossman, Associate Professor of Sociology at UCLA, and co-host, UVA Law 3L Autumn Adams-Jack.  We continue our discussion of sex, drugs, and Islamic finance, among other taboo trades. It’s also our final episode of season 2. Please listen to the end of the episode for a special goodbye from America’s favorite law students. Thank you to Gabriel for helping us wrap up this season with a great episode. And thanks to all of you for listening. 
Want to buy sex, bribe a politician, or get your dumb kid into an Ivy League school? I discuss how to get away with taboo trades with Gabriel Rossman, an Associate Professor of Sociology at UCLA, and my co-host, UVA Law 3L Autumn Adams-Jack. Rossman studies cultural industries (such as radio and film) and economic sociology (including diffusion and disreputable exchange). He is interested in how people structure immoral exchanges like bribery to make them more subtle and therefore less obviously immoral. I’ve been an admirer of Rossman’s work for a number of years and was so happy to have this opportunity to talk to him about his research that I kept him longer than normal and have divided his podcast into two parts. In this part, we talk about sugar babies, college admissions, Bill Cosby, and Islamic finance. We also discuss a forthcoming book manuscript on the obfuscation of disreputable exchange that Gabriel generously shared, currently titled “How to Get Away With Paying Bribes, Buying Sex, and Selling Corpses.  Suggested Readings·      “It’s Only Wrong If It’s Transactional.” 2018. (with Oliver Schilke) American Sociological Review.·      “Obfuscatory Relational Work and Disreputable Exchange.” 2014. Sociological Theory.·      “The Diffusion of the Legitimate and the Diffusion of Legitimacy.” 2014. Sociological Science.·      Climbing the Charts: What Radio Airplay Tells Us about the Diffusion of Innovation. Princeton University Press. 2012. 
Kidneys with Sally Satel

Kidneys with Sally Satel


I discuss what it's like to need (and receive) a life-saving kidney transplant with AEI's Sally Satel (a two-time kidney transplant patient) and UVA 3L, Caitlyn Stollings, who co-hosts this episode. Dr. Satel is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and the staff psychiatrist at a local methadone clinic in Washington D.C. She was also an assistant professor of psychiatry at Yale University from 1988 to 1993 and remains a lecturer at Yale. Importantly for our purposes, she is a two-time kidney transplant patient and has written widely about that experience. Dr. Satel is also the editor of When Altruism Isn’t Enough: The Case for Compensating Kidney Donors Recommended Reading:Desperately Seeking a Kidney - The New York Times › magazine › 16kidney-tDec 16, 2007 —The current kidney donation system is failing us. › technology › 2016/09 › the-current-...Sep 13, 2016 — Opinion | Generosity won't fix our shortage of organs for ... › news › 2015/12/28Dec 28, 2015 — Cook, Philip J., and Kimberly D. Krawiec. "If We Allow Football Players and Boxers to Be Paid for Entertaining the Public, Why Don't We Allow Kidney Donors to Be Paid for Saving Lives." Law & Contemp. Probs. 81 (2018): 9.
I discuss marijuana legalization and why Congress is so incompetent, with Ohio State's Douglas Berman and UVA Law 3L, Cortney Inman, my co-host for this episode. Douglas Berman is the Newton D. Baker-Baker & Hostetler Chair in Law, and the Executive Director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center at Ohio State University’s Moritz College of Law. His principal teaching and research focus is criminal law and sentencing, and marijuana law and policy. Professor Berman is the co-author of two casebooks. Sentencing Law and Policy and Marijuana Law and Policy. He has served as an editor of the Federal Sentencing Reporter for more than a decade and is the sole creator and author of the widely-read and widely-cited blog, Sentencing Law and Policy, which now receives nearly 100,000 page views per month and was the first blog ever cited by the U.S. Supreme Court.Recommended Reading:Drug Enforcement and Policy Center: Marijuana Reform Focus Area Lampe, Congressional Research Service, Does the President Have the Power to Legalize Marijuana? (Nov. 4, 2021), at  Jennifer Le, Federal Cannabis Reform – Is 2022 the Year?, National Law Review (Feb 11, 2022), at Hailey Fuchs & Natalie Fertig, Big Weed is on the brink of scoring big political wins. So where are they?. Politico, Jan. 22, 2022, at Douglas Berman & Alex Kreit, Marijuana Law & Policy Casebook
With the Final Four nearly upon us, I discuss college sports with Paul Haagen of Duke University and UVA Law 3L, Jackson Bailey.Paul is a Professor of Law and Co-Director of the Center for Sports Law and Policy at Duke University. His principal academic interests are contracts, the social history of law, and law and sports.Recommended Reading:Sports in the Courts: The NCAA and the Future of Intercollegiate Revenue Sports, 103 Judicature 54-61 (2019)
Vida Panitch and I discuss (de)commodification, corruption, exploitation, and coercion with my co-host, UVA Law 3L, Nevah Jones. We're specifically interested in women's intimate and reproductive labor, including sex work, surrogacy, and egg donation. Vida Panitch is an Associate Professor of Philosophy and Ethics and Public Affairs at Carleton University. Her primary research project addresses the moral boundaries of markets – specifically markets in public goods, including health care and education, and physical goods, including body parts and intimate services – and the extent to which theories of exploitation, commodification, and inequality can help us determine their permissible regulation. Recommended Reading:1. Panitch, Vida. Decommodification as Exploitation (draft)2. Panitch, Vida. Liberalism, commodification, and justice, in Politics, Philosophy, and Economics (2020)3. Panitch, Vida. Basic Income and Intimate Labor, The Future of Work, Technology, and Basic Income, Michael Cholbi and Michael Weber eds. (New York: Routledge): 157-174.
Co-hosts Samantha Spindler (UVA Law 2L), Madison White (UVA Law 3L), and I discuss pandemic responses with Govind Persad. Our focus is how to preserve personal choice in crisis response. Persad is an Assistant Professor at the University of Denver Sturm college of law. Persad’s research interests center on the legal and ethical dimensions of health insurance, health care financing, and markets in health care services, as well as professional ethics and the regulation of medical research.
Fred and I discuss what society owes to the bodies and memories of former slaves with our co-host, UVA Law 3L Tom DelRegnoFred Smith Jr., a Professor of Law at Emory University. He is a scholar of the federal judiciary, constitutional law, and local government. In 2019, he was named the law school’s Outstanding Professor of the Year.Additional Reading:Smith Jr, Fred O. "On time,(in) equality, and death." Mich. L. Rev. 120 (2021): 195.Smith, Fred O. "The Constitution After Death." Columbia Law Review 120.6 (2020): 1471-1548.
Kim and I, together with co-host (UVA 3L) Thalia Stanberry, discuss surrogacy, the right (or not) to procreate, and CRISPRKimberly Mutcherson is the Co-Dean and a Professor of Law at Rutgers Law School in Camden. Her scholarship focuses on reproductive justice, bioethics, and family and health law.Further reading:(1) Kimberly Mutcherson, Reproductive Rights without Resources or Recourse (Hastings Center Report, fall 2018).(2) Kimberly Mutcherson, Building Queer Families and the Ethics of Gestational Surrogacy (University of Richmond Law Rev, 2019).(3) Sandy Sufian and Rosemarie Garland-Thomson, The Dark Side of CRISPR, Scientific American, Feb. 16, 2021
Martha, John, and I discuss Martha's journey as a stranger donor with co-hosts Kaitlyn O'Malley and Caitlyn Stollings (UVA Law '22). Appearances are also made by Nevah Jones, Alex Leseney, Thalia Stanberry, Samantha Spindler, and Tom DelRegno.Martha Gershun and John Lantos are  authors of Kidney To Share, a new book published by Cornell University Press. Martha Gershun is the former Executive Director of Jackson County CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocates). She is author of Care & Custody, and her work has appeared in The Kansas City Star, The New York Times Magazine, and The Radcliffe Quarterly. John D. Lantos, MD, is Director of the Bioethics Center at Children's Mercy Hospital and Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Missouri Kansas City School of Medicine. His books include Do We Still Need Doctors, Neonatal Bioethics, and Controversial Bodies. He is Associate Editor of the American Journal of Bioethics, Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, and Current Problems in Pediatrics and Adolescent Health Care. 
Repugnance with Al Roth

Repugnance with Al Roth


Al Roth and I discuss hitmen, drugs, kidneys, paid sex, and other repugnances. We’re joined by co-hosts Madison White and Alex Leseney (both UVA 3Ls), with appearances from UVA 3Ls Thalia Stanberry, Caitlyn Stollings, Jackson Bailey, and Autumn Adams-jack. A good time was had by all!Alvin E. Roth is the Craig and Susan McCaw Professor of Economics at Stanford University. He works in the areas of game theory, experimental economics, and market design, and shared the 2012 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics.Readings referenced in this episode:Roth, Alvin E. Who gets what--and why: the new economics of matchmaking and market design. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2015.Roth, Alvin E. "Repugnance as a Constraint on Markets." Journal of Economic perspectives 21.3 (2007): 37-58.Roth, Alvin E. "Marketplaces, markets, and market design." American Economic Review 108.7 (2018): 1609-58.Chenlin Gu, Alvin Roth, Qingyun Wu (2022) Forbidden Transactions and Black Markets. Mathematics of Operations Research  Published online in Articles in Advance 28 Jan 2022  .  
Welcome to Season 2!

Welcome to Season 2!


Welcome to Season Two of the Taboo Trades podcast
Pat discusses marijuana legalization and disses on the tax academe Pat Oglesby is a tax attorney and the founder of the Center for New Revenue,  a tax policy nonprofit. He worked for the Joint Committee on Taxation of the United States Congress from 1982 to 1988, first as a Legislation Attorney and then as the International Tax Counsel.  From 1988 to 1990, under Senator Lloyd Bentsen of Texas, he held the position of Chief Tax Counsel of the Committee on Finance of the United States Senate. Link to marijuana billboards discussed in this episode.
Christian explains the rules of financial fair play in European football. Then we argue about why people have sex. Christian Turner is an Associate Professor of Law at the University of Georgia. His areas of interest are legal theory, jurisprudence, the public-private distinction, legal institutions, law and cognition, property law, natural resources law, and the regulation of knowledge and information.Christian Turner, The Segregation of Markets , 7 Tex. A&M L. Rev. 299 (2020), Available at: Oral Argument PodcastWalzer, Michael. Spheres of justice: A defense of pluralism and equality. Basic books, 2008.Radin, Margaret Jane. Contested commodities. Harvard University Press, 1996.
Nico and Mario discuss their research on blood donation and attitudes toward taboo trades. I fail at zoom. Mario Macis is a Professor of Economics at Johns Hopkins Carey Business School. His research interests include pro-social behavior, morally controversial transactions, global health, experimental economics, development economics, and labor economics. Nico Lacetera is a Professor of Strategic Management at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. His research concerns the ethical constraints and social support to markets, the motivations for altruistic behavior, and various topics in industrial and innovation economics.Lacetera, Nicola, Mario Macis, and Robert Slonim. "Will there be blood? Incentives and displacement effects in pro-social behavior." American Economic Journal: Economic Policy 4.1 (2012): 186-223.Lacetera, Nicola, Mario Macis, and Robert Slonim. "Economic rewards to motivate blood donations." Science 340.6135 (2013): 927-928.Lacetera, Nicola, Mario Macis, and Robert Slonim. "Rewarding volunteers: A field experiment." Management Science 60.5 (2014): 1107-1129.Elías, Julio J., Nicola Lacetera, and Mario Macis. "Paying for kidneys? a randomized survey and choice experiment." American Economic Review 109.8 (2019): 2855-88.Elias, Julio J., Nicola Lacetera, and Mario Macis. "Sacred values? The effect of information on attitudes toward payments for human organs." American Economic Review105.5 (2015): 361-65.Compliance Policy Guide CPG Sec. 230.150: Blood Donor Classification Statement, Paid or Volunteer Donor, Guidance for FDA StaffDhingra, Neelam. "In defense of WHO's blood donation policy." Science 342.6159 (2013): 691-692.
Nancy discusses the limits of consent. I contemplate putting silicone horns on my head.Nancy Kim is the ProFlowers Distinguished Professor of Internet Studies at California Western School of Law and visiting Professor, Rady School of Management at UC San Diego. Professor Kim is a former chair of both the section on Commercial and Related Consumer Law and the section on Contracts of the Association of American Law Schools (AALS). She is an elected member of the American Law Institute and the Chair of the Subcommittee on UCC Article 1 of the ABA Business Law Section. Her scholarly interests focus on culture and the law, contracts, women and the law, and technology. She is the author of Consentability: Consent & Its Limits (Cambridge Univ. Press).Helpful links for this episode:1. Nancy S. Kim, Consentability: Consent and its Limits 2. Cook, Philip J. and Krawiec, Kimberly D., Kidney Donation and the Consent of the Poor (January 20, 2020). Loyola Law Review, New Orleans, Vol. 66, 2020, Available at SSRN: 
Josh makes the case for paying kidney donors and infecting people with Covid-19. We both admit to being bad at big law.Josh Morrison is the founder of three nonprofit organizations: Waitlist Zero, which envisions an America where no one dies because of a shortage of transplantable kidneys; the Rikers Debate Project, which teaches debate to formerly incarcerated students in six states; and 1 Day Sooner, an organization that advocates on behalf of Covid-19 challenge trial volunteers. Josh was a corporate lawyer when he donated his kidney to a stranger in 2011. Helpful links for this episode:1. Waitlist Zero 2. 1 Day Sooner https://1daysooner.org3. Rikers Debate Project http://rikersdebateproject.org4. Linh Chi Nguyen, Christopher W Bakerlee, T Greg McKelvey, Sophie M Rose, Alexander J Norman, Nicholas Joseph, David Manheim, Michael R McLaren, Steven Jiang, Conor F Barnes, Megan Kinniment, Derek Foster, Thomas C Darton, Josh Morrison, 1Day Sooner Research Team, Evaluating use cases for human challenge trials in accelerating SARS-CoV-2 vaccine development, Clinical Infectious Diseases, , ciaa935, Josh Morrison, It’s time to treat organ donors with the respect they deserve, The Washington Post, 6. Meagan E. Deming, et. al., "Accelerating Development of SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines — The Role for Controlled Human Infection Models", The New England Journal of Medicine, Lynch, Holly Fernandez, et. al, Ethical Payment to Participants in Human Infection Challenge Studies, with a Focus on SARS-CoV-2: Report and Recommendations (August 14, 2020). Available at SSRN: or Organ Donor Reimbursement Petition, 
Peter makes the case for paid plasma. I commit basketball treasonPeter Jaworski is is an Associate Teaching Professor in Strategy, Ethics, Economics and Public Policy at Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business. He has published in Ethics, Philosophical Studies, the Canadian Journal of Law and Jurisprudence, and the Journal of Business Ethics, among others. Helpful links for this podcast:1. Peter Jaworski, Bloody Well Pay Them: The Case for Voluntary Remunerated Plasma Collections, 2. English, William and Jaworski, Peter M., The Introduction of Paid Plasma in Canada and the U.S. Has Not Decreased Unpaid Blood Donations (July 15, 2020). Available at SSRN: or Peter M. Jaworski, "Not compensating Canadian blood plasma donors means potentially risky reliance on foreign plasma", The Conversation, Peter M. Jaworski, "Canada should not be spending $1 billion on plasma imports; it should be producing enough to export, and for that, we need to pay Canadian donors", Policy Options:
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