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The Street Epistemology Podcast

Author: Street Epistemology International

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Date Recorded: 22 May 2022 Date Released: 22 May 2022 Watch video of discussion here: https://youtu.be/ECZwRTdZNA8 Inspire Reflection's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/InspireReflection Thank you to Anthony for being such a generous interview partner. This was my second interview with Anthony as the first one had major audio problems and I am very grateful to Anthony for giving me the chance to take another swing at it. Anthony's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCocP40a_UvRkUAPLD5ezLIQ Street Epistemology: https://www.youtube.com/user/StreetEpistemologist - - - - For more information about Inspire Reflection and its sister project Deviant Robot checkout https://deviantrobot.com - - - - Please be respectful to my conversation partners in the comments. They may not be used to expressing there views so please try and exercise the principle of charitable interpretation. - - - - Inspire Reflection Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/InsReflect Deviant Robot Website - https://deviantrobot.com Deviant Robot YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/deviantrobot Deviant Robot Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/thedeviantrobot Deviant Robot Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/deviantrobot Deviant Robot Discord - https://discord.gg/7t8xNEBk3A Street Epistemology Website - https://streetepistemology.com/ Street Epistemology YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/StreetEpistemologist Street Epistemology Discord - https://discord.gg/streetepistemology
Date Recorded: 13 June 2022 Watch video of discussion here: https://youtu.be/-6yH6eUmIEY Eddie - Deep Discussions https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtftwuFFsiXLkzmpWPncd5w Eddie's video using SE with his young daughters: https://youtu.be/UAE9GXo57X8 Evitable's 'Joe Rogan knows how to talk to kids.' mashup: https://youtu.be/ZOd9VvvH2IQ Diamond - Diamond Discourse https://www.youtube.com/c/DiamondDiscourse Bob - Mortgage Hill Musings https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQU9GcG93HyDa4oV_TbO9vQ Charlie Brown video: https://youtu.be/iE6SgMma7LE Noella and Hafsa (Parentage) video: https://youtu.be/qA4Vkn3iJi0 Simon - Austrathist Some discussion points we address: Adaptations/modifications of SE when talking to children Informed consent Goals/purpose Failures/successes using SE with children Advice for people new to SE Your comments and feedback are welcome! For more information about Street Epistemology check out https://streetepistemology.com/ If you happen to be in the Salt Lake City area consider joining my SE Meetup group where we get together to study and practice Street Epistemology https://www.meetup.com/street-epistemology-salt-lake-city
Date Recorded: May 16, 2022 Watch video of discussion here: https://youtu.be/wgQntkr3sNI This is a conversation with women who are active in the Street Epistemology community. Safety? Benefits? Concerns? We cover lots of topics in less than an hour! My guests for this panel discussion are Jules, Jenny, Karin, and Sheryl. Each of us have different experiences with Street Epistemology, and it was fun to compare and contrast notes, and get several perspectives! Jules B's paper: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s5McXU4VBFsjH2uBABFtfd34ZI5DcJXb/edit Sheryl's website: www.sherylforsouthdakota.com Street Epistemology course: https://streetepistemology.com/learning-course Salt Lake City Meetup group: https://www.meetup.com/street-epistemology-salt-lake-city/?_cookie-check=JaicIoqPXecS1BEi Lisa's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSMSInIbBclvxlif4GiUBUA We address the questions: What is Street Epistemology? Why do you think SE is a valuable skill to learn? Why do you think SE is primarily practiced by men? Are there any unique concerns or benefits for women in SE? How can we get more women involved with SE? What personal successes have you had using SE? Comments welcome Constructive criticism always welcome Intro narrated by Apollos.
Will (Inspire Reflection), Nathan (Abstract Activist), and Chucky (I Hear You), take your questions and comments about SE, and your concise, clear, genuine, and interesting claims to practice SE with. Watch video here: https://youtu.be/Y7dWfzTscrw Will's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/InspireReflection Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/AbstractActivistSE Chucky's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/IHearYou Street Epistemology Links: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology
Janosch, Chucky (I Hear You), and Lisa (UnrulyLucy) take your questions and comments about SE, and your concise, clear, genuine, and interesting claims to practice SE with. Watch video here: https://youtu.be/eF7pkjB70tE Chucky's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/IHearYou Janosch's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Der_Prometheus Lisa's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSMSInIbBclvxlif4GiUBUA Street Epistemology Links: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Will (Inspire Reflection), Janosch, and Chucky (I Hear You), take your questions and comments about SE, and your concise, clear, genuine, and interesting claims to practice SE with. Watch video here: https://youtu.be/LToDdTaNrcY Call in here: https://streamyard.com/54nxwm878w Will's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/InspireReflection Chucky's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/IHearYou Janosch's Twitter: https://twitter.com/Der_Prometheus Street Epistemology Links: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Will (Inspire Reflection), Chucky (I Hear You), Diamond (Diamond Discourse) take your questions and comments about SE, and your concise, clear, genuine, and interesting claims to practice SE with. Watch video of show here: https://youtu.be/F5CVhmhU1fo Reid’s Links: https://linktr.ee/CordialCuriosity Will's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/InspireReflection Chucky's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/IHearYou Diamond's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/DiamondDiscourse Street Epistemology Links: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Will (Inspire Reflection), Lisa, Janosch, Mark (Being Reasonable), Nathan (Abstract Activist), review Anthony Magnabosco's conversation he had on the Mormon Stories podcast with Christian pastor Shawn McRaney. Watch review video here: https://youtu.be/0xfxqaTi_Yc Watch original interview here: https://youtu.be/hVh_60xD_8M Reid’s Links: https://linktr.ee/CordialCuriosity Will's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/InspireReflection Lisa's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSMSInIbBclvxlif4GiUBUA Mark's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/BeingReasonable Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/AbstractActivistSE Street Epistemology Links: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Summary: Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Nathan (Abstract Activist), Will (Inspire Reflection), Chucky (I Hear You), Janosch, and Doug (Pinecreek) take questions and comments about SE. Watch the original video here: https://youtu.be/8ld_YkC68Dk SE Linktree: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Anthony Magnabosco, Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Michael (Live Well), Mark (Being Reasonable), Dali (JugglingLessons), and Matt review Reid's convo with Nate about the COVID vaccine. Watch review video here: https://youtu.be/XwV5KW3Hm7Y Watch original interview here: https://youtu.be/0CB6b4YCudM Anthony's LinkTree: linktr.ee/magnabosco Reid's LinkTree: linktr.ee/CordialCuriosity Michael's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-GdFIoS1X-x2nTEm-GZmOA Mark's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5-eKG7SxyTZlaXBg9Um7EA Dali's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/jugglinglessons SE LinkTree: linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Nathan (Abstract Activist), Anthony Magnabosco, Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Michael (Live Well), Rom, and Pierce Watkins review Nathan's video 'How to Engage with Relativistic Thinking'. Watch review video here: https://youtu.be/hpE8PHqDLSI Watch original interview here: https://youtu.be/KjvVxNZ2cBI Anthony's LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/magnabosco Reid's LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/CordialCuriosity Michael's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Gd... Rom's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3mM... Pierce's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsZj... SE LinkTree: linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel. Narration provided by Apollos.
Recorded: 2 December 2021 Broadcast: 5 December 2021 Watch review video here: https://youtu.be/F6McFqmosG0 Watch original interview here: https://youtu.be/BKh2bh-hJGM 'All Humans Deserve Dignity w/Patty' | Street Epistemology Review 118 views • Streamed live on Dec 2, 2021 • Diamond from Diamond Discourse is joined by Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Nathan (Abstract Activist), Quayd (What's Your Argument), Janosch, and Eldudeireno to talk about their conversation with Patty about all humans deserving dignity. Diamond's Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCe8jxcrrLKXp7yS5FjevWSQ Original Video: https://youtu.be/BKh2bh-hJGM Reid's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/abstractactivistse Quayd’s Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYGWqO_AAGQR6A2QQqg1TLA Janosch's Twitter: https://twitter.com/der_prometheus Eldudeireno's Twitter: https://twitter.com/eldudeireno SE LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology
Date Aired: 23 November 2021 Watch video of talk here: https://youtu.be/Vm81RySpKIw Anthony Magnabosco, Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Nathan (Abstract Activist), Michael (Live Well), Mark (Being Reasonable), Rom Tarasov, Robert Hamilton, & Bob Swanson answer questions from the subreddit r/HermanCainAward about the use of SE with vaccine hesitancy. Part 1 of 2. r/HermanCainAward SE AMA link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qyisz7/ama_live_event_nov_23_we_are_experts_in_how_to/ Anthony's channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 Reid' channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity Nathan's channel: https://youtube.com/AbstractActivistSE Michael's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-GdFIoS1X-x2nTEm-GZmOA Mark's channel: https://www.youtube.com/beingreasonable Rom's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3mMkSZ8wh0NbDXY-i7DPVA Robert's twitter: https://twitter.com/rhamiltonx Bob's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQU9GcG93HyDa4oV_TbO9vQ Street Epistemology LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/StreetEpistemology
Anthony Magnabosco joins Robert Hamilton, who was making a guest appearance in the Street Epistemology room in Clubhouse, a room hosted by David of Chapman Bay Channel, where they disuss the upcoming self-directed SE course and some ideas on how to use SE with close friends and family. Listen to entire Cluhouse event: https://youtu.be/f0uD41BbBO4 SE Discord Invite Link: https://discord.gg/sKap3zM David's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/tex21122002 Anthony's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 SE Website: https://streetepistemology.com/ SEI Website: https://streetepistemologyinternational.org/
Anthony Magnabosco, Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Rom(SE Discord Training), Jon (Quality Questions), Ragnar (SE Discord Moderator) and Robert (SE Course Project Manager) review two of the websites currently associated with Street Epistemology. A project to update the Street Epistemology website is forming and volunteers are being sought to assist with this very important initiative as SE continues to grow and evolve worldwide. Head to the SE Discord (invite link below) and look for the channel #se-website to indicate your interest in helping with the project. More information about the project: https://www.patreon.com/posts/street-website-57720651 SE Discord Invite Link: https://discord.gg/sKap3zM Original Video: https://youtu.be/cgwiQaRIrlc Jon's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJtrXG0rZeLmHAasik18PoA Rom's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3mMkSZ8wh0NbDXY-i7DPVA Reid's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity Anthony's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 SE Website: https://streetepistemology.com/ SEI Website: https://streetepistemologyinternational.org/
Anthony Magnabosco, Reid (Cordial Curiosity), Mark (Being Reasonable), and Quayd review two of Mark's videos where he spoke with a mother at a vaccine mandate protest who was worried about her son getting the COVID vaccine and another fellow who thinks the vaccine is a harmful poison. Original Videos: https://youtu.be/njoC9lOCFCU https://youtu.be/lBlJ7Xi3Mqw Anthony's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 Reid's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity Mark's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5-eKG7SxyTZlaXBg9Um7EA Quayd's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/whwsjackfrost Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaGAzPm0iExb4I4iq0TCXEw SE Website: https://streetepistemology.com/ SE Discord: https://discord.gg/W5HYNZzQ3G
Anthony, Reid , Mark, Nathan, Michael, and Rom review a critique of SE from the apologetics channel 'Explain International'. Watch Review Video: https://youtu.be/NGSilhJgFww Watch Original Video: https://youtu.be/5kTHLWRBNJA You can challenge yourself and friend(s) with the online SE Survey: https://se-survey.web.app Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaGAzPm0iExb4I4iq0TCXEw Mark's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5-eKG7SxyTZlaXBg9Um7EA Michael's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-GdFIoS1X-x2nTEm-GZmOA Rom's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3mMkSZ8wh0NbDXY-i7DPVA Anthony's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 Reid's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity SE Website: https://streetepistemology.com/ SE Discord: https://discord.gg/W5HYNZzQ3G
Nathan Ferguson, Anthony Magnabosco, Reid Nicewonder (Cordial Curiosity), Michael Mead (Live Well), Rom, and Pierce Watkins review my video 'How to Engage with Relativistic Thinking'. Watch Review Video: https://youtu.be/NGSilhJgFww Watch Original Video: https://youtu.be/KjvVxNZ2cBI You can challenge yourself and friend(s) with the online SE Survey: https://se-survey.web.app Nathan's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaGAzPm0iExb4I4iq0TCXEw Anthony's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/magnabosco210 Reid's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/cordialcuriosity Michael's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-GdFIoS1X-x2nTEm-GZmOA Rom's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3mMkSZ8wh0NbDXY-i7DPVA Pierce's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsZjp43nzEtZ8gDjXeu_EUg SE Website: https://streetepistemology.com/ SE Discord: https://discord.gg/W5HYNZzQ3G Subscribe to this channel! Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AbstractActivist Twitter: https://twitter.com/Abstract_SE Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AbstractActivist Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbstractActivist You can Email me at: AbstractActivistSE@gmail.com
I just wanna focus on the method... Watch video of song here: https://youtu.be/3hJl3k6MIOM Follow Sound Epistemology on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SNDepistemology Uploaded March 24, 2021
Summary: Nathan explores Sam's view that truth depends on the opinions and beliefs of people. Watch video of talk here: https://youtu.be/KjvVxNZ2cBI Nathan's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/abstractactivistse Original Recording Date: 21 July 2021 Subscribe to this channel! Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AbstractActivist Twitter: https://twitter.com/Abstract_SE Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AbstractActi... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/AbstractAct... You can Email me at: AbstractActivistSE@gmail.com You can buy me gifts here: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls... Share this video with someone you know! It's one of my favorites! You can challenge yourself and a friend with the online survey: https://se-survey.web.app 00:00 Intro 00:55 Explaining Street Epistemology 04:21 Filling out the Survey 04:36 Interview begins 08:25 24. It is possible that some of my beliefs are not true 15:45 2. We all share the same reality and only interpret it differently. 18:49 Check in for more time, invite a question 19:54 6. Strong belief, even without action, can change external reality. 21:46 how would you define external world? 28:23 how are we conceptualizing the truth? 31:44 Is it possible to be mistaken? 34:34 Why bother looking for the truth? 38:07 3. Truth depends on the opinions and beliefs of people. 38:45 5. Something is true if everyone agrees. 40:55 You can't be wrong about anything you think? 44:44 Were there Dinosaurs? 45:42 Ending on good terms 47:34 Outro The goal of SE is not necessarily to change a belief, but to exercise and explore good reasoning for how we know what we know. Is it possible to resolve differences of belief without debate? Are we open minded to the idea that we are close minded? What would it take to change our minds? I am an amateur philosopher. I can be wrong about my beliefs and would be happy to discover that I am. I encourage my viewers to consider this approach the next time we misunderstand or disagree with someone. Please consider multiple examples of this Conversation style before making a final judgment about it. SE Resources: https://tinyurl.com/abm-se-resources SE Community: https://tinyurl.com/abm-se-community SE Discord Server: https://discord.gg/sKap3zM Music provided by Jim Rhodes, with Dan Harris on lap steel.
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Comments (81)

ncooty

@~28:00: There's a difference between influence and manipulation.

Jul 16th
Reply

ncooty

@18:56: Occam's Razor is not about what is "most likely". It's about efficiency and parsimony.

Jun 14th
Reply

ncooty

I think we can safely pass on Steve's sophomoric logical positivism.

Apr 26th
Reply

ncooty

SEers often seem preoccupied with fawning sensitivity to every possible offense or misconstrual--even those that are likely just an IL's pretextual distractions from poor thinking. Civility needn't entail coddling. SE in practice often comes across to me as a contrived or pretentious performance of the civility of quivering ninnies... or the wilting curiosity of a sheepish faux-ignoramus.

Apr 26th
Reply

ncooty

The second caller's seemingly dim-witted obstinance highlights an issue I've raised several times with SEers: It helps to get people to understand 2 dimensions: what's true and what matters. With respect to any given claim, we only care whether or not something is true if it matters. Therefore, we first identify what matters and then discuss how we can know whether or not it is true. Sadly, this guest seemed incapable of understanding such a simple distinction. His sanctimony seemingly feeds an entitlement only to preach. I wonder if a call-in show attracts and selects for these pious performers.

Apr 26th
Reply

ncooty

The second caller could've avoided the gish gallop if he had just said that while the loss of any single belief wouldn't bring down his overall faith, he's glad to interrogate a single claim on its own... without constantly flitting from one assertion to the next.

Apr 26th
Reply

ncooty

Many people take questions as an indication of ignorance rather than of curiosity. Therefore, it often seems that ILs think they are in a position of explaining rather than reflecting. They don't appreciate that the SEer has tried their own hands behind their back by taking most if the onus of rapport and largely constraining themselves to questions.

Apr 26th
Reply (1)

ncooty

@0:53: Immutable or, maybe, inimitable?

Apr 21st
Reply

ncooty

One is highly unlikely to have a genuine conversation about a particular belief with a person whose livelihood and identity depend on ardently professing that belief if the conversation is publicly broadcast--and doubly so if it's marketed as a death match. The IL's identity seems wholly wrapped up in machismo and false bravado. In his mind (at least as he performs it), he'd whip all yer asses if his buddy God weren't holding him back. It's part of the ugly machismo and bully culture. After all, in most religions, God is merely a bully. He's a mafia don.

Apr 13th
Reply

ncooty

It sounded to me as if Anthony thought early on, "This guy is intent on performing, not genuinely conversing, and I don't want to be a mere prop for his well rehearsed performance." However, it also seems like he could have pursued a much more interesting belief from the IL: _I would do terrible things without my religious beliefs._ What would he do? What constitutes terribleness? Why does he think he'd be that way? Does he feel those desires right now, but his religious beliefs suppress them? Does he think everyone is that way? In what ways does his religious belief suppress his terribleness (e.g., fear of eternal consequences)? Would any religion suffice or just his religion? Does this supposed benefit mean his religious beliefs are true? Are there other areas of life in which he uses this sort of logic?

Apr 13th
Reply

ncooty

Although I'm no fan of identity-first framing, it's great to hear women in these discussions. Hope to hear more of all kinds of people in the future. It's been great to hear what different backgrounds have brought to SE and related discussions. And kudos to all those--especially recent novices like the lady here--who step forward and make themselves vulnerable to share these conversations.

Apr 13th
Reply

ncooty

This was bad from the start. I wonder what the panel's feedback would've been if they'd only read a transcript of it and didn't know it was Anthony. His initial questions seemed a bit self-referential and meta-conversational. (E.g., now is the time allocated to build rapport.) Then he seemed to leap ahead (i.e., seeming to think he knew where this guy was going, so let's just jump to that), so much so that he sounded presumptuous and obliquely accusatory. His approach nearly guaranteed a rote, defensive, apologetic response.

Apr 13th
Reply

ncooty

At the end, the IL did the classic maneuver of insisting that the other person has the views and values she expects--or more to the point, the weakest versions of opinions that are most convenient for her to refute with her version of reasoning. At that point, the conversation was so far off track, the interviewer couldn't find any ground for mental traction. SEers' prioritization of rapport often hamstrings their ability to raise actual doubts. Instead, they seem to impersonate a soapbox on which the IL can blather, thereby further identifying with their nonsense.

Mar 22nd
Reply

ncooty

The primary SE interview and the review both lacked informed structure. The reviewers often got ducked into the claim itself rather than the logical structure. Many of these SE conversations and reviews would benefit from more training in structured logical analysis. For all the deference to logic and scientific expertise, very few SE practitioners seem sufficiently committed to studying the topics they say they revere. They seem to prefer reinventing the wheel.

Mar 21st
Reply (1)

ncooty

@9:04: All people with 26 pairs of chromosomes? Can't be many of those. Maybe she accidentally mashed up 23 pairs and 46 chromosomes, in which case, do people with Down syndrome not have dignity? Why do people cite things they think sound scientific when that clearly has nothing to do with their beliefs? I suppose it's a good sign that they think science confers credibility, even if they themselves are credulous.

Mar 21st
Reply

ncooty

I'm sure he buys his supplements exclusively from non-profit organizations that pay no salaries.

Mar 21st
Reply

ncooty

It seems that the espoused reasons are very often simply pretextual, and these conversations might actually just be performances of their identities that further reinforce the underlying identity. The belief isn't fact-based; it's identity-based. I suspect that after this conversation, he was even more identified with this insane web of nonsense. And this returns us to the central irony of SE: the lack if evidence of its efficacy.

Mar 21st
Reply (1)

ncooty

Wow. A unicorn. Nice.

Jan 27th
Reply

ncooty

Had to stop listening; the host's logic is too broken. E.g., saying that doubt is one of Satan's tools is not necessarily saying that all doubt arises from Satan or that anyone who raises doubts is Satanic. Why do people listen to such poor reasoning? Why is this gibberish posted on an SE channel?

Jan 9th
Reply

ncooty

Biting (or holding) your tongue is not "shooting the messenger". How did you guys mislearn this basic idiom?

Dec 9th
Reply
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