Dave and Dharm DeMystify

In this week's episode, Dave and Dharm are joined by Lionel Grosclaude, CEO of Fime, to explore what happens when artificial intelligence moves beyond helping us make decisions and starts making purchases and payments on our behalf. As AI agents become increasingly autonomous, a fundamental question emerges: how do we know they're actually doing what we asked them to do? Lionel explains why authentication alone may no longer be enough. Merchants and payment providers will need to understand whether an agent has permission to make a purchase, whether it has followed the user's mandate and whether it has behaved legally, securely and fairly along the way. The conversation explores the trust challenge this creates for consumers and merchants, from fraud and chargebacks to agents sharing information they shouldn't or operating outside the parameters set by their users. Lionel also introduces Fime's FACT solution, designed to verify agentic transactions and create an audit trail when something goes wrong. The discussion moves into stablecoins, micropayments and interoperability, exploring how new forms of digital money could fit into an increasingly AI-driven payments ecosystem. Lionel also shares a striking personal example of the risks already emerging from AI-enabled fraud, after fraudsters impersonated him on WhatsApp and used an AI-generated version of his voice during an attempted $150,000 fraud. Looking ahead, the conversation explores where agentic commerce could become part of everyday life, why humans may remain involved in more personal purchasing decisions, and how AI could accelerate innovation while creating an increasingly complex financial ecosystem. For anyone interested in AI, agentic commerce, payments, fraud, digital identity or the future of financial services, this episode offers a fascinating look at what needs to happen before we can safely allow AI agents to start spending our money.

In this week's episode, Dave and Dharm are joined by Colin Payne, Head of Innovation at the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and Chair of the Global Financial Innovation Network (GFIN), to explore how regulators are adapting to one of the fastest periods of technological change the financial services industry has ever experienced. Drawing on decades of experience leading digital transformation before joining the FCA, Colin explains how regulation is evolving from simply responding to innovation to actively helping firms develop emerging technologies responsibly. The conversation explores why regulators must work alongside industry if the UK is to remain a global leader in financial innovation. The discussion begins with Colin's role at the FCA and GFIN, where he works with more than 100 regulators worldwide to explore emerging technologies through practical experimentation. Rather than attempting to predict every technological development, the focus is on creating environments where firms can innovate safely while maintaining strong consumer protections. A major theme throughout the episode is artificial intelligence and the rise of autonomous, agentic AI. Colin explains why he believes intelligent software agents could become one of the most transformative technologies in financial services, enabling everything from personalised financial advice to automated payments and entirely new financial products. At the same time, he discusses the challenges regulators face in balancing innovation with trust, transparency and consumer protection. The conversation also explores the FCA's increasingly technology-positive approach to regulation. Rather than creating prescriptive rules for rapidly evolving technologies, Colin explains how principles-based regulation, innovation sandboxes and AI labs allow firms to test new ideas while giving regulators valuable insight into how these technologies perform in practice. Another fascinating topic is the convergence of AI, quantum computing, tokenisation and open finance. Colin discusses why these technologies should not be viewed in isolation, but as interconnected developments that will reshape financial services over the coming decade. The episode examines how financial institutions can prepare for this future while remaining resilient to emerging risks. The discussion also looks at the UK's position as a global fintech leader. Colin shares why he believes the country's combination of financial expertise, strong regulation and world-class innovation creates a unique opportunity to lead the next generation of financial services, provided industry and regulators continue working together. Finally, the conversation explores what the future of regulation itself could look like, from AI-assisted supervision and smarter regulatory technology to new ways of helping firms innovate safely without slowing technological progress. Colin shares his vision of a regulator that actively participates in shaping the future of financial services, rather than simply responding to it. For anyone interested in fintech, AI, regulation, digital transformation or the future of financial services, this episode offers a fascinating insight into how innovation and regulation can work together to build a safer, smarter and more competitive financial system.

In this special episode, Dave is joined by Dharmesh Mistry and Lou Carlozo to explore the ideas behind Dharmesh's upcoming book, The Intelligent Ledger, and why the convergence of AI, tokenisation, digital twins and quantum computing could fundamentally reshape banking. Drawing on decades of experience in banking, technology and financial journalism, Dharmesh and Lou explore why the industry may be approaching a far more significant shift than previous waves of digital transformation. The conversation examines the concept of the intelligent ledger – a new model where banks move beyond simply managing transactions and selling traditional products, towards intelligent platforms that use data and technology to better understand and support customers. They also discuss why this transformation is happening now, the growing impact of agentic AI and tokenised money, the potential role of quantum computing, and why banks that move too slowly risk being overtaken by more agile competitors. With The Intelligent Ledger designed as both an explanation of technological convergence and a practical guide for banking leaders, the episode explores what banks need to do today to prepare for the financial services landscape of 2032. For anyone interested in banking technology, AI, tokenisation, digital money and the future of financial services, this episode offers a fascinating look at why the next transformation in banking may be driven not by one technology, but by several converging at once. The Intelligent Ledger is due to be published before the end of September.

In this week's episode, Dharm is joined by Rob Rooney, Co-founder and CEO of Hyperlayer, and **Paul Rolles, Co-founder and Chief Architect, to explore why banking innovation has stalled, and how a new approach to programmable banking could unlock the next generation of financial products. Drawing on decades of experience at Morgan Stanley and building financial technology businesses, Rob and Paul explain why legacy banking infrastructure continues to limit innovation, and why the future may lie not in replacing core banking systems, but in building an intelligent programmability layer above them. The conversation begins with the founders' journey from Morgan Stanley to launching Hyperlayer. Having experienced first-hand the complexity of managing multiple core banking systems, they explain why traditional "rip-and-replace" projects are often unrealistic, and why banks need a faster, more flexible way to modernise existing infrastructure. A major theme throughout the episode is programmable banking. Rather than embedding innovation directly into core banking systems, Hyperlayer introduces a core-agnostic layer that allows banks to rapidly build configurable financial products without disrupting existing ledgers. The discussion explores how this enables banks to innovate faster while avoiding the cost, risk and complexity of replacing legacy technology. The episode also examines why banking product innovation has lagged behind improvements in customer experience. While digital banking has become more intuitive, many financial products have changed very little. Rob and Paul discuss how programmable accounts, smart wallets and configurable financial services could unlock new lending models, family banking solutions, loyalty programmes and personalised customer experiences. Another key focus is personalisation. The speakers argue that banking should evolve beyond offering identical experiences to every customer, instead allowing individuals, families and businesses to configure how their accounts, payments and financial products operate. The conversation also explores the relationship between programmability and AI. Rather than viewing conversational AI simply as a better interface, Rob and Paul explain how agentic AI could dramatically increase demand for more flexible banking products. As software agents begin acting on behalf of customers, banks will need infrastructure capable of supporting highly configurable financial services and automated decision-making. The role of blockchain is also discussed. While acknowledging the potential of tokenisation and digital assets, the speakers argue that programmable banking should not depend on blockchain alone. Instead, they advocate a technology-agnostic approach that enables banks to deliver programmable financial services across existing infrastructure while remaining prepared for future payment technologies. Finally, the discussion looks ahead to the future of banking. As AI, programmability and financial services continue to converge, Rob and Paul share their vision for intelligent, configurable financial ecosystems that adapt to each customer's needs while dramatically reducing the time required to launch new services. For anyone interested in banking technology, AI, programmable finance and the future of financial services, this episode offers a fascinating insight into how banks can modernise without replacing their core systems, and why programmability could become one of banking's most important innovations.

In this week's episode, Dharm is joined by Briana Marbury, CEO of the Interledger Foundation, to explore one of the biggest challenges in global finance today: creating truly interoperable payments that work seamlessly across banks, payment networks, and borders. Drawing on her background in finance and her work leading the Interledger Foundation, Briana explains why moving money across different payment systems remains far more complicated than most people realise, and how open payment protocols could transform financial inclusion, cross-border payments, and the future of digital commerce. The conversation begins with an introduction to the Interledger Foundation and the Interledger Protocol, an open, currency-agnostic payments network designed to connect financial ledgers in much the same way the internet connects information. Rather than replacing existing payment systems, Interledger enables banks, wallets and payment providers to transfer value more efficiently across different payment rails. A major theme throughout the episode is interoperability. Briana explains why many banks and payment providers still operate in isolated ecosystems, making it difficult to move money quickly and affordably between institutions. The discussion explores how open payment protocols could remove many of these barriers while allowing financial institutions to maintain the flexibility to choose their own infrastructure. The episode also examines why smaller community banks often struggle to access modern payment capabilities. Briana discusses how the Interledger Foundation is working with financial institutions, regulators and technology partners to help modernise infrastructure, improve financial inclusion, and expand access to digital financial services for underserved communities around the world. Another key focus is the future of cross-border payments. The speakers explore why international transfers remain expensive, particularly for migrant workers sending remittances home, and how interoperable payment networks could significantly reduce costs while increasing speed and accessibility. The conversation also highlights projects underway in countries including Mexico, Colombia and South Africa to improve connectivity between banks and payment systems. The discussion also explores how open-source technology is driving innovation across the payments industry. Briana explains how developers, universities and financial institutions are collaborating to build new payment capabilities on top of the Interledger Protocol, creating an ecosystem that encourages innovation while remaining accessible to organisations of all sizes. The episode also looks at the rise of streaming payments and programmable money, exploring how continuous, real-time payments could enable entirely new business models, from paying for digital content by the second to more flexible payroll systems and online services. Finally, Briana shares her vision for a more connected financial system where interoperability becomes the foundation for faster, more inclusive and more accessible global payments. For anyone interested in payments, financial inclusion, open banking and the future of digital finance, this episode offers a fascinating look at how interoperable payment networks could reshape the way money moves around the world.